Spurs Have a Serious Rebounding Issue

[BatManu20]

And it's not just a size issue. That's a major part of the equation obviously, but more importantly, guys on this team aren't boxing out when the opposition shoots the ball. We see it all the time with our Guards/Wings and even with our bigs where they just watch as the ball goes up instead of putting a body on a man. In a league where teams shoot more 3's than ever before and thus long rebounds are more prominent than ever before, this is unacceptable.

Spurs are currently allowing 12 Offensive Rebounds per game, tied with the Pelicans for the 4th most in the NBA. Only WAS, DAL, and PHX are (barely) worse. Numbers show that we're equally bad at home and on the road.

This is something that should be improved upon with time by our coaching staff, so why is it only getting worse..?

And to make matters worse, you have an interim HC who thinks playing 6'7 Jeremy Sochan and 6'8 Harrison Barnes at C against NBA 7-footers is a good idea. Make it make sense.

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[onechance87]

yup coaching could be the problem.But this is something the players should already know.They are just lazy to me.

[scott]

And it's not just a size issue. That's a major part of the equation obviously, but more importantly, guys on this team aren't boxing out when the opposition shoots the ball. We see it all the time with our Guards/Wings and even with our bigs where they just watch as the ball goes up instead of putting a body on a man. In a league where teams shoot more 3's than ever before and thus long rebounds are more prominent than ever before, this is unacceptable.

Spurs are currently allowing 12 Offensive Rebounds per game, tied with the Pelicans for the 4th most in the NBA. Only WAS, DAL, and PHX are (barely) worse. Numbers show that we're equally bad at home and on the road.

This is something that should be improved upon with time by our coaching staff, so why is it only getting worse..?

And to make matters worse, you have an interim HC who thinks playing 6'7 Jeremy Sochan and 6'8 Harrison Barnes at C against NBA 7-footers is a good idea. Make it make sense.

1889790332562239860

The wildest part about this Box Out stat to me is that Charles Bassey has only played 346 minutes. Wemby has played 1,491 and Barnes has played 1,427.

Bassey the only motherfucker on our team who cares about rebounds.

[NASpurs]

So not only do we have low bbiq players, they're also lazy. Great...

[Mugen]

It's how you know the coaches are absolute shit. As soon as a shot goes up, half the lineup leaks out looking for a fast break.

This team is garbage at shooting, no doubt. But their rebounding effort or lack thereof is the reason they've been trash this year.

[Jordan Jackson]

The word is out about these lazy mofos. Opposing teams are crashing offensive board regularly now.

[Tyronn Lue]

If you look at advanced stats for the league, boxing out stopped being a thing years ago. Maybe some teams are back at it, but it really went away about when the 3 became the "every trip down the floor" option.

That said, Devin Vassell is straight trash. Lower paid scrubs, you expect bad outings. DV is almost 1 good outing per 5 bad ones. He should be Luka'd by now.

[Frenchfred]

We need a PF (at least 6'9) who can rebound next to Wemby. I like Barnes but he is a SF not a PF. I would actually try the following lineup: Fox, Castle, Barnes, Sochan and Wemby with Castle shooting better now.

[Dex]

I've been yelling this at clouds all season.

This team does not box out.

This team does not track rebounds.

This team does not grab the ball with two hands.

What they do is all kinda meander into the paint, and if the ball happens to come their way, they try to bat it out to someone to initiate the fast-break instead of just securing the fucking rebound.

Half the time, this tap ends up going back to the opponent who are conveniently still positioned around the perimeter and ends up in an open shot.

We need to stop preaching pace and get back to some fundamentals here.

[Frenchfred]

I've been yelling this at clouds all season.

This team does not box out.

This team does not track rebounds.

This team does not grab the ball with two hands.

What they do is all kinda meander into the paint, and if the ball happens to come their way, they try to bat it out to someone to initiate the fast-break instead of just securing the fucking rebound.

Half the time, this tap ends up going back to the opponent who are conveniently still positioned around the perimeter and ends up in an open shot.

We need to stop preaching pace and get back to some fundamentals here.

we need some nasty

[Dejounte]

The forum has been crying about the team needing shooters but we need rebounders way more

[SouthernFried]

It's like we don't have a coach.

[skin27]

This is on wemby. Always allowing his man to box him out on the defensive end every fckn time.

[scott]

The forum has been crying about the team needing shooters but we need rebounders way more

Porque no los dos?

[Manu-of-steel]

It's more on the coaching staff and the IQ of players. It's basic- once the shot goes up, box your man out. Our low IQ players are always ball watching, that's why we often see the other team getting offensive rebounds

[SequSpur]

It's more on the coaching staff and the IQ of players. It's basic- once the shot goes up, box your man out. Our low IQ players are always ball watching, that's why we often see the other team getting offensive rebounds

Great point! They play like pussies. The tallest guy is cherry picking all night long

[tim_duncan_fan]

Lots of people on this board think Jeremy is a center, too, when he is not close to power forward size.

I don't know why, but this team has not been able to rebound or defend the three since like 2018.

[Tyronn Lue]

I keep seeing the coach pushing the pace, and the team moves faster than they have control skills for. This is just mimicking Pop who USED to only do that with skilled players. You cannot do that with a group of people who half wouldn't recognize each other in a restuarant at night.

[Bruno]

League average dreb% is 74.9% with the best team being at 78.1% and the worst team at 72%.

Spurs with Wembanyama on the court: 74.9% dreb%
Spurs with Wembanyama off the court: 72.5% dreb%

Spurs are also at 74.9% dreb% with Bassey.

Stat wise, Spurs are an average defensive rebounding team when they have Wembanyama or Bassey at C and a bad one otherwise.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

No NBA team have more than 1 player with 10 rebounds or more.

The Knicks have Towns with 13 I believe and Hart with 9.

i notice many times Wemby don’t go for the rebound and start running to the other side of the court.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

The have an intelligence and talent issue as well.

[z0sa]

Barnes is not a PF. Sochan is not a center.

We play small ball literally entire games then wonder why we have trouble rebounding.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs have too many players who are minus rebounders for their position, especially at the wings, it’s how the current team is designed. Wemby is doing well but he rarely gets any help because of another need - floor spacing. Even decent rebounders like Sochan are forced to play a position up where they become minus as well.

The balance is impossible to get with this roster, it’s not about getting other guys who can rebound and insert them into the rotation, you need guys who can rebound, shoot and ideally defend too. All in one, not three different players doing a bit of each. They’ll have a lot of work in the offseason.

[SpursGenius]

We need a PF (at least 6'9) who can rebound next to Wemby. I like Barnes but he is a SF not a PF. I would actually try the following lineup: Fox, Castle, Barnes, Sochan and Wemby with Castle shooting better now.
only explanation is they are tanking with midget starting lineup or they are dumbfucks. Maybe both.

[RC_Drunkford]

been saying it. Last in the NBA in box outs. This is a coaching issue. If you can't drill it into your players that they have to box out their man, that's on the coach. Playing 60% of your roster a position up from their natural one just adds to the problem.

[Pauleta14]

If only that was the only serious issue...

Add that to the list of unnecessary handicaps, PATFO thought it would be wise to impose to a once in a generation player.

I can't wait for Wemby to finally get over himself :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

sounds to me like they never heard the terminology "boxing out":

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[Mal]

Chris Paul is forcing interim coach to play smallball lineup with Sochan at C and Barnes at PF, because he must start

[Ice009]

And it's not just a size issue. That's a major part of the equation obviously, but more importantly, guys on this team aren't boxing out when the opposition shoots the ball. We see it all the time with our Guards/Wings and even with our bigs where they just watch as the ball goes up instead of putting a body on a man. In a league where teams shoot more 3's than ever before and thus long rebounds are more prominent than ever before, this is unacceptable.

Spurs are currently allowing 12 Offensive Rebounds per game, tied with the Pelicans for the 4th most in the NBA. Only WAS, DAL, and PHX are (barely) worse. Numbers show that we're equally bad at home and on the road.

This is something that should be improved upon with time by our coaching staff, so why is it only getting worse..?

And to make matters worse, you have an interim HC who thinks playing 6'7 Jeremy Sochan and 6'8 Harrison Barnes at C against NBA 7-footers is a good idea. Make it make sense.

1889790332562239860

Who are the other players/numbers listed there?

[Gagnrath]

Lots of people on this board think Jeremy is a center, too, when he is not close to power forward size.

I don't know why, but this team has not been able to rebound or defend the three since like 2018.


6'8" is low end Power Forward Size 6'6"-6'9" is small forward size 6'8"-6'11" power forward. In 2005 if you draft a Tweener forward with Sochan handles and a shot out to 15' with speed and defensive intensity there's zero doubt that he plays 15 minutes a game at SF, and about 12 at PF. The whole must shoot 30% or better from 3 to really play SF in 2015 is what is holding him back... It also what I don't understand we saw shooting improvement at first with a shot rework in the off season supposed to happen and then nothing.

[quentin_compson]

It's as if the Spurs' coaching staff either doesn't know about or doesn't believe in the concept of team rebounding.

[exstatic]

6'8" is low end Power Forward Size 6'6"-6'9" is small forward size 6'8"-6'11" power forward. In 2005 if you draft a Tweener forward with Sochan handles and a shot out to 15' with speed and defensive intensity there's zero doubt that he plays 15 minutes a game at SF, and about 12 at PF. The whole must shoot 30% or better from 3 to really play SF in 2015 is what is holding him back... It also what I don't understand we saw shooting improvement at first with a shot rework in the off season supposed to happen and then nothing.

I know this is going to come as a shock to you, but Jeremy is shooting 34% from beyond the arc.

[ffadicted]

We are absolutely trash at rebounding, both defensively and offensively, just look at this fuckin table, sorted by worst to best:
https://i.imgur.com/4Hoqj7m.png

[Dejounte]

The best teams rebound and box out who would have thunk it

SURROUND WEMBY WITH REBOUNDERS not three point threats since he IS the three point threat

[Gagnrath]

I know this is going to come as a shock to you, but Jeremy is shooting 34% from beyond the arc.
Not really there's a more of an unwillingness/uncomfortable to shoot looks/opportunities most players in high level basketball would take and make at a pretty good rate that bothers me. He's not at Ben Simmons levels by any means but he isn't considered an offensive threat by most defenses that have scouted and he isn't a willing shooter without very open looks.

[Raven]

Barnes is not a PF. Sochan is not a center.

We play small ball literally entire games then wonder why we have trouble rebounding.

not to mention the double or triple pg lineups... absolutely wild

[Gagnrath]

not to mention the double or triple pg lineups... absolutely wild
This is the issue and a number of the other players aren't exactly high end rebounders for their position, add in Paul is no longer quick for his position and has always been small.

[ambchang]

Not really there's a more of an unwillingness/uncomfortable to shoot looks/opportunities most players in high level basketball would take and make at a pretty good rate that bothers me. He's not at Ben Simmons levels by any means but he isn't considered an offensive threat by most defenses that have scouted and he isn't a willing shooter without very open looks.

Agree. He shoots 34 at like 2 attempts a game. And someone posted a stat where Jeremy didn’t shoot (or make?) a three with any defender within 6 feet of him. That’s a big problem and he will eventually have to work on a decent shot that he can launch with some confidence and a much quicker release.

[100%duncan]

It's crazy cause whenever the opps shoot the 3, I just see 1-2 spurs players running the other way (Wemby included btw) :lol This predictably leads to an oreb and an open 3 which more often than not leads to a bucket. We've experienced these "daggers" throughout this season, I swear we lost a lot of games this way either when this happens when we're closing in on their lead or when they cut our lead down i.e. momentum swinger possessions.


Also funny when we have those possessions where the opps get 2-4 shots :lol I mean you are facing an NBA team, they're bound to make 1 out of 3 or 4 shots.

[spurraider21]

Chris Paul is forcing interim coach to play smallball lineup with Sochan at C and Barnes at PF, because he must start
sochan at center has nothing to do with paul

[spurraider21]

The best teams rebound and box out who would have thunk it

SURROUND WEMBY WITH REBOUNDERS not three point threats since he IS the three point threat
the best teams are houston, detroit, and golden state?

[mystargtr34]

We are absolutely trash at rebounding, both defensively and offensively, just look at this fuckin table, sorted by worst to best:
https://i.imgur.com/4Hoqj7m.png

Damn that’s actually pretty damning. Good stat.

Looking at basketball reference the Spurs are 23rd in the league in DRB % and 20th in ORB %.

Interesting that despite not boxing out they are still grabbing more boards than a few other teams. Seems like the easiest way to go from a below average rebounding team to a good rebounding team is to start boxing out. And actually playing some guys with size.

[LakerHater]

We have an aging PG that never boxes out & a 7'er that doesnt know to rebound, doesnt try or jus slaps it!

[Obstructed_View]

The forum has been crying about the team needing shooters but we need rebounders way more
To be fair, they can't fucking shoot either.

[DAF86]

The best teams rebound and box out who would have thunk it

SURROUND WEMBY WITH REBOUNDERS not three point threats since he IS the three point threat

The Thunder are one of the worst reboundings teams in the entire league, tbh.

[DAF86]

I remember the Spurs were amongst the leaders in rbd% not too long ago.

[Seventyniner]

I remember the Spurs were amongst the leaders in rbd% not too long ago.

For a long time the Spurs were top 3 in DRB% but towards the bottom in ORB%.

[DAF86]

For a long time the Spurs were top 3 in DRB% but towards the bottom in ORB%.

Yes, that's what I meant. DRB%. That has always been Pop's design, don't fight for offensive rebounds so that you can get back into transition D, but be elite on the defensive end. It was working this season, I don't know which could be the causes for it to downgrade so badly.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Yes, that's what I meant. DRB%. That has always been Pop's design, don't fight for offensive rebounds so that you can get back into transition D, but be elite on the defensive end. It was working this season, I don't know which could be the causes for it to downgrade so badly.

What’s changed is the players. Spurs were good at DRB% when they were competitive with the big 3 and even after that with LMA but they’ve not been good for years now. Also nowadays it’s a bit different as there are way more long rebounds due to the increased volume of threes, so positional plus rebounders are more important, not just the bigs, and ours aren’t very good on the current team, especially at the wings.

[DAF86]

What’s changed is the players. Spurs were good at DRB% when they were competitive with the big 3 and even after that with LMA but they’ve not been good for years now. Also nowadays it’s a bit different as there are way more long rebounds due to the increased volume of threes, so positional plus rebounders are more important, not just the bigs, and ours aren’t very good on the current team, especially at the wings.

They were top 3 in BRB% for a good chunk of this season, that's why I'm asking what could be the reason/s for the change? Benching Sochan, Pop's absence, etc.?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They were top 3 in BRB% for a good chunk of this season, that's why I'm asking what could be the reason/s for the change? Benching Sochan, Pop's absence, etc.?

They weren’t though. All season long they’ve been hovering between average to below average in DRB%.

[DAF86]

They weren’t though. All season long they’ve been hovering between average to below average in DRB%.

Nah, I clearly recall the Spurs being at the top of DRB% early in the season.


For a long time the Spurs were top 3 in DRB% but towards the bottom in ORB%.

Maybe seventyniner can provide a link or something.

[RC_Drunkford]

Nah, I clearly recall the Spurs being at the top of DRB% early in the season.



Maybe seventyniner can provide a link or something.

yeah I think we were 7th in rebounding at some point

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Nah, I clearly recall the Spurs being at the top of DRB% early in the season.



Maybe seventyniner can provide a link or something.


yeah I think we were 7th in rebounding at some point

Pretty sure seventyniner was talking about the Spurs of old being top 3, not this season's Spurs.

As for the stats, per NBA.com.
After 5 games - 12th in DREB% at 71.0
After 15 gams - 13th at 71.0
After 25 games - 17th at 70.7
After 40 games - 21st at 70.3
as of now - 22nd at 69.9

So, overall declining, but generally being steadily between 70% and 71%.

[scott]

Spurs (today, right now) are 3rd in the league in Adjusted REB Chance %, 5th in raw REB Chance %, and 11th in Reb/Gm.

However, that's because we are #1 in the NBA in Adjusted OREB and raw REB Chance %. We're 11th in Adjusted DREB Change %, and 16th in raw DREB Chance %. So, our past philosophy of crashing the defensive boards and getting back to play defense on an offensive missed shot seems to have completely flipped. My guess is because OREB leads to putback point opportunities and we have guys on our team who might be looking to pad stats? IDK.

Edit:

To further elaborate on the difference between REB Chance % and REB%.

REB% is the % of missed shots that you rebound.

REB Change % is the % of rebound chances you secure whereas a rebound chance is when you are the closest player to the ball at any point in time between when the ball has crossed below the rim to when it is fully rebounded.

So, if you are getting boxed out, there are long rebounds that you don't really have an opportunity to gather, then those opportunities count against your REB% but not your REB Chance %.

Adjusted REB Chance % adds in that if you defer a rebound chance to a teammate, then it doesn't count against you (which is why I like it versus raw).

So what this tells us is what we already know from the box out stats. The Spurs are simply getting out muscled, out positioned, and outsmarted when the shot goes up and are getting boxed out. I doubt that long rebounds are playing any more of a role in this than any other team. However, the Spurs may be overly aggressive in pursing blocks which also leads to easy rebounds for the other team.

But, when the Spurs aren't being boxed out, they are above average at actually securing the board (and are the best in the league at getting the OREB)

[Seventyniner]

Pretty sure seventyniner was talking about the Spurs of old being top 3, not this season's Spurs.

As for the stats, per NBA.com.
After 5 games - 12th in DREB% at 71.0
After 15 gams - 13th at 71.0
After 25 games - 17th at 70.7
After 40 games - 21st at 70.3
as of now - 22nd at 69.9

So, overall declining, but generally being steadily between 70% and 71%.

Yes I meant the heyday Spurs, not earlier this season.

This page shows their ranks in each category over the seasons. I don't believe they are pace-adjusted though. Looks like the Spurs were usually more like top 5 than top 3 in DRB, but that's in total defensive rebounds and not the rate (DRB%). I can't find ranks for past rate stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/stats_basic_ranks.html

[TD 21]

Yes I meant the heyday Spurs, not earlier this season.

This page shows their ranks in each category over the seasons. I don't believe they are pace-adjusted though. Looks like the Spurs were usually more like top 5 than top 3 in DRB, but that's in total defensive rebounds and not the rate (DRB%). I can't find ranks for past rate stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/stats_basic_ranks.html

2024-25 San Antonio Spurs Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2025.html)

Scroll down to "Team Misc", fourth column from the right.

[BatManu20]

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[scott]

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Hopefully Bassey is back this week and actually gets playing time, moving Sochan back to Forward and not playing as an out of position C. Bassey is statistically the best rebounder on the team.

[Knoxxx]

The weak rebounding is why we can consider a PF or C that doesn’t shoot from the outside, so long as they bring REBs and blocks.