Shams: Pop Not Expected to Return this Season; Long-Term Future is in Jeopardy

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I'm OK with Becky if they think he's the best candidate to coach the team. I don't care if it's a guy or girl. I'm fine with a hire like that if he or she is the best candidate. The Spurs would hire anyone based on DEI reasons.
they would five years ago, but probably not today.....

Pop was the greatest Spurs coach of all time and despite the last 8 years of shit, he's a top 5 all time coach in the NBA and top 15 all time in sports. Despite the fact he got all stupid and political 7-8 years ago as his team turned to shit, the 2nd greatest basketball player of all time retired from the team and the incumbent franchise player decided to quit and abandon the team.

That said, Popovich should have retired in around roughly 2018. Once DPG and Nephew were all gone. No need to jump the shark, actually worse than Belicheat did after Brady left. At least Hoodie left after 3 bad years and 1 middling year.

I'd take a guy like Budenholzer over an unproven commodity like Becky Hammon, I mean Budenholzer back in the day won us a shit ton of games after Pop got ejected for technical fouls even when we were losing in ball games.

[Ice009]

Sorry that was a typo. I said the Spurs *wouldn't hire anyone based on DEI reasons*. I went back and edited the post as it was a complete typo. My typing sucks sometimes and I make mistakes trying to type faster than I should be.

No way do I want anyone hired on that reason. I'm also not advocating for Becky at all, was just saying I'd be OK with it if she truly was the best choice in their minds for pure basketball reasons only.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Sorry that was a typo. I said the Spurs *wouldn't hire anyone based on DEI reasons*. I went back and edited the post as it was a complete typo. My typing sucks sometimes and I make mistakes trying to type faster than I should be.

No way do I want anyone hired on that reason. I'm also not advocating for Becky at all, was just saying I'd be OK with it if she truly was the best choice in their minds for pure basketball reasons only.
If they were gonna do that, they should have done that in, like, 2020 or 2021 when DEI/woke/"firsts" were in. In 2025, it's out.

For purely basketball reasons, she's not even close to a top half choice. It'd get media attention like tebowmania, linsanity and kaepernick did for awhile, but it wouldn't help the team any more than Ime Udoka or someone mediocre like that would.

For the people in this thread advocating for Manu, he was never a coachy type. Neither really was Timmy even if he tried it for a year or two. Parker of the three was the best but even then he wasn't a huge coach worthy type. I would have liked to see Bruce Bowen coach somewhere at some point but the way he'd coach defense would have half the team fouling out in today's pussified NBA these days. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

The family/in-house options are likely to be Borrego/Mike Brown/Budenholzer (if fired). I really doubt they go 'woke' in this politically charged climate and hire Becky Hammond (DEI and all that jazz.)

This sounds like Pop will give it a final try next season. They will use the excuse of an extremely dry coaching market to give him the opportunity to go out on his own terms, on a high note (a winning season)


https://x.com/mikecwright/status/1896043978409328838

Another wildcard, which may explain him not pushing for a buy out? Paul angling for aa future coaching gig..Wemby is a gravy train everyone is waiting to hop onto even as an Assistant coach..

https://x.com/mikecwright/status/1896063702622957731

Let me guess, next season Pop coaches the team for about 20 games, suffers another stroke and is replaced by Mitch Johnson for the rest of the season. So it’s rinse and repeat a.k.a. pounding the rock

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Let me guess, next season Pop coaches the team for about 20 games, suffers another stroke and is replaced by Mitch Johnson for the rest of the season. So it’s rinse and repeat a.k.a. pounding the rock

I have a hunch Paul is on the bench after he retires.

[MannyIsGod]

Anyone who complains about a DEI hire is just telling on themselves. You guys don't think a person is capable of doing their job, and you think the only way they can get that job is because they are black, brown, or a woman when in reality the people in those positions have to work HARDER to get the same jobs that white men routinely walk into. If you don't want a woman in the job because she's a woman, then don't be a coward and hide behind "DEI hire" bullshit but just come out and say what you mean.

If you want to total the unqualified hires in this nation and then break them down along gender and race lines, white men are going to have benefited so damn often into jobs they had no business getting because they are unqualified for. It's not even close.

[OldMan88]

Whether you want to hear it or not, anytime you hire a “groundbreaking” individual for a highly competitive & exposed job like a head coach, you have to consider how hard it would be to fire the person being considered. Hire a white man & get criticized, but fire same white man & nobody cares. Hire someone that checks some intersectional box or boxes and the media will heap praise. However, if you’re forced to fire that person, that causes huge backlash, even if it’s grossly apparent it was a bad fit or the performance wasn’t there.

[CGD]

Whether you want to hear it or not, anytime you hire a “groundbreaking” individual for a highly competitive & exposed job like a head coach, you have to consider how hard it would be to fire the person being considered. Hire a white man & get criticized, but fire same white man & nobody cares. Hire someone that checks some intersectional box or boxes and the media will heap praise. However, if you’re forced to fire that person, that causes huge backlash, even if it’s grossly apparent it was a bad fit or the performance wasn’t there.

Maybe in other sports, but black coaches get fired in the NBA on the regular.

[CGD]

Anyone who complains about a DEI hire is just telling on themselves. You guys don't think a person is capable of doing their job, and you think the only way they can get that job is because they are black, brown, or a woman when in reality the people in those positions have to work HARDER to get the same jobs that white men routinely walk into. If you don't want a woman in the job because she's a woman, then don't be a coward and hide behind "DEI hire" bullshit but just come out and say what you mean.

If you want to total the unqualified hires in this nation and then break them down along gender and race lines, white men are going to have benefited so damn often into jobs they had no business getting because they are unqualified for. It's not even close.

Preach!

That’s not even including all the FailSons out there.

[rankingtear]

The next head coach should be CP3. The guy is too competitive to be retiring from basketball. Pop knows what he is doing bringing him this year. He tried desperately with Tim and Manu to no avail.

[objective]

The notion that Pop & the Spurs would have ever hired Becky either now or 5 years ago due to politics or optics is laughable

Never forget that when Pop had the choice to name Becky his top assistant when she has accumulated years of first row experience that no else on the staff could match .... He refused.

When he could have designated her as the Coach to be in case of ejections or otherwise like every other team throughout history .... He refused and went with some rubbish excuse of whoever prepped, coached to have a revolving chair of nonsense.

And when asked why he didn't name Becky as the designated replacement and make history with her as a woman coach, he said it wasn't his job to make history or something along those lines.

Pop really ain't about that life despite the talk. He could poke his head out a little to get some praise and credit, but when it got serious he knee-capped her, he wasn't about to let a woman really coach on his watch.

[Ocotillo]

I believe CP3 has the IQ and head to be an NBA coach, but I question if he has the "people skills" to succeed. I am referring to the stories of him wearing on his teammates over time, you don't necessarily need to be buddies with everyone, but you also need to find a balance where you don't come on so strong that you end up losing them.

[ginobilized]

I love CP3 but I think he could use some seasoning before becoming a head coach. At minimum a couple of years off, then assistant coaching. Rarely do HOF players make successful coaches.

My hope is that they open up the job at season's end and don't hold the door open for Pop.

I do think something is brewing with Tony Parker. He's been at several road games. There's got to be some reason for that. Might be FO, but, it could be coaching.

[Spurminator]

Hire someone that checks some intersectional box or boxes and the media will heap praise. However, if you’re forced to fire that person, that causes huge backlash, even if it’s grossly apparent it was a bad fit or the performance wasn’t there.

Please share one example of this happening and causing huge backlash.

[cd98]

Not sure CP3 would want to coach the Spurs. His family lives in LA and not sure they want to relocate to here.

[SpurSpike]

I have a feeling its going to be Mike Brown after all the smoke clears. Fox thinks highly of him to the point that he basically left the kings because they fired him.

Fox quote
"I was like, 'Yo, I've been here for going on my eighth year. If Mike gets fired, I'll be going on my fifth coach,'" Fox told ESPN. "And I told them, 'I'm not going to play for another coach. I'm going to play for another team.'"

Has close ties to the Spurs, has a winning record and is available.

[ambchang]

Whether you want to hear it or not, anytime you hire a “groundbreaking” individual for a highly competitive & exposed job like a head coach, you have to consider how hard it would be to fire the person being considered. Hire a white man & get criticized, but fire same white man & nobody cares. Hire someone that checks some intersectional box or boxes and the media will heap praise. However, if you’re forced to fire that person, that causes huge backlash, even if it’s grossly apparent it was a bad fit or the performance wasn’t there.

Fire a white man and you get an insurrection.

[scott]

I have a feeling its going to be Mike Brown after all the smoke clears. Fox thinks highly of him to the point that he basically left the kings because they fired him.

Fox quote
"I was like, 'Yo, I've been here for going on my eighth year. If Mike gets fired, I'll be going on my fifth coach,'" Fox told ESPN. "And I told them, 'I'm not going to play for another coach. I'm going to play for another team.'"

Has close ties to the Spurs, has a winning record and is available.

People would be understandably disappointed with a Mike Brown hire, but he'd be a major improvement over what we have now in Pop/Mitch.

Not even coach we hire is going to last 28 years, or even 5 years. Mike Brown would actually be a good "next step" coach to change some of the culture around here and take steps forward. If he plateau's, you move on and bring in the next guy to take it to the next level.

[Spursfanfromafar]

People would be understandably disappointed with a Mike Brown hire, but he'd be a major improvement over what we have now in Pop/Mitch.

Not even coach we hire is going to last 28 years, or even 5 years. Mike Brown would actually be a good "next step" coach to change some of the culture around here and take steps forward. If he plateau's, you move on and bring in the next guy to take it to the next level.

I know for sure that at least the defense will get better (even when Wemby is not on the floor).

For all the great achievements of PATFO over the years, it is now a pivotal point for them. They need to take a firm decision on Pop's future and not keep the franchise's prospects in limbo. If Pop isn't healthy enough.. they must hire a new coach and a new staff. The clock has been ticking too long for the Spurs now and its time already to get into shape for contention. Mitch Johnson is clearly not the answer.

[baseline bum]

People would be understandably disappointed with a Mike Brown hire, but he'd be a major improvement over what we have now in Pop/Mitch.

Not even coach we hire is going to last 28 years, or even 5 years. Mike Brown would actually be a good "next step" coach to change some of the culture around here and take steps forward. If he plateau's, you move on and bring in the next guy to take it to the next level.

IDK the way the Kings just took off the second they fired him makes me pretty weary of the idea. Spurs have to be able to do better than that when they have Wemby and Fox in the fold with an up and coming Castle who looks like he's going to be a real player too. This isn't like the Lakers trying to convince Hurley to come in and clean LeBron's mess after he cost them all their young talent for Westrbrook (eg Kuzma, KCP, Caruso, and Monk). I remember when the Spurs were nobodies and they still got Larry Brown excited enough at the prospect of coaching David Robinson to leave Kansas and come here. Surely there has to be excitement at coming to coach Wemby, Fox, and Castle too.

[scott]

I know for sure that at least the defense will get better (even when Wemby is not on the floor).

For all the great achievements of PATFO over the years, it is now a pivotal point for them. They need to take a firm decision on Pop's future and not keep the franchise's prospects in limbo. If Pop isn't healthy enough.. they must hire a new coach and a new staff. The clock has been ticking too long for the Spurs now and its time already to get into shape for contention. Mitch Johnson is clearly not the answer.

100% agree. Rolling into next season with Mitch as interim coach with the prospect of Pop maybe returning would be a major signal that they aren't serious about winning.

[scott]

IDK the way the Kings just took off the second they fired him makes me pretty weary of the idea. Spurs have to be able to do better than that when they have Wemby and Fox in the fold with an up and coming Castle who looks like he's going to be a real player too. This isn't like the Lakers trying to convince Hurley to come in and clean LeBron's mess after he cost them all their young talent for Westrbrook (eg Kuzma, KCP, Caruso, and Monk). I remember when the Spurs were nobodies and they still got Larry Brown excited enough at the prospect of coaching David Robinson to leave Kansas and come here. Surely there has to be excitement at coming to coach Wemby, Fox, and Castle too.

It's overly simplistic to just say "this team got better after Coach X was fired, therefor Coach X is not very good and we should not be interested"

Sometimes certain people just aren't the right fit for an organization at that time. CLE got significantly better after firing Bickerstaff, but Bickerstaff was still a great hire for DET and has led to significant improvement there. JB may or may not be the guy to take DET to a Championship, but it definitely looks like he was the right guy for DET right now. The Spurs need the guy for right now more than they need the guy for Wemby's entire career. Would it be great to have that? Sure, but it's actually pretty unlikely so it would be foolish to make that your top priority.

As for Hurley... I don't think his antics are going to fly in the NBA. Seems like an idea college coach to me. I'm not all that high on him for us.

[Gandalf]

It's overly simplistic to just say "this team got better after Coach X was fired, therefor Coach X is not very good and we should not be interested"


Maybe - but even if it’s a bit simplistic, it should at least factor in, even if it’s not determinative by itself.

Edited because Brown was an assistant with the Warriors, after their first recent title, but during some of the others. That’s not bad. Kings situation was still odd though. Similar concerns with Budenholzer and the Bucks/Suns.

[scott]

Maybe - but even if it’s a bit simplistic, isn’t this at least the second time this has happened after Brown? The Kings and the Warriors? In any event, it should at least factor in, even if it’s not determinative by itself.

Of course it's a factor. But there is also an interview process, you just don't extend job offers to coaches (or any other job) based solely on their resume.

Almost every coach that's available has been fired from somewhere else... every person who eventually gets married was also most likely dumped by someone else at some point... the circumstances matter and we just don't dismiss potential partners because their last stint didn't end perfectly (otherwise they wouldn't be available). Even if we hire someone who hasn't been fired... it means we are hiring someone who is willing to leave their current job for a better one, something they may even do to you one day. None of these should be red flags, but things to discuss in an interview.

The Spurs are also not a franchise who's shit doesn't stink, and we shouldn't act like they are. Yes they have Wemby and Fox and Castle... but they also have the second longest playoff drought in the NBA; a handful of losing players on significant contracts; the incoming coach will be replacing the winning coach of all time; the franchise also moves very conservatively and is money conscious; and the franchise player will have a long-term health question mark... this isn't the perfect opportunity that everyone in the world will be dying to take like we might want to imagine it is.

The Spurs have had exactly 1 coach who has made it four full years: Gregg Popovich. It's far more likely that our next coach is another guy who lasts less than 4 years than it is a guy who lasts 10+. We should mentally prepare ourselves for an underwhelming coaching hire, and that still might end up being a nice step forward for us.

[spurraider21]

IDK the way the Kings just took off the second they fired him makes me pretty weary of the idea. Spurs have to be able to do better than that when they have Wemby and Fox in the fold with an up and coming Castle who looks like he's going to be a real player too. This isn't like the Lakers trying to convince Hurley to come in and clean LeBron's mess after he cost them all their young talent for Westrbrook (eg Kuzma, KCP, Caruso, and Monk). I remember when the Spurs were nobodies and they still got Larry Brown excited enough at the prospect of coaching David Robinson to leave Kansas and come here. Surely there has to be excitement at coming to coach Wemby, Fox, and Castle too.
sure but gotta also factor in what the kings were before mike brown. as scott said, he at least provides a respectable floor. he's not exactly on my wish list, but he's better than popomitch

[baseline bum]

It's overly simplistic to just say "this team got better after Coach X was fired, therefor Coach X is not very good and we should not be interested"

Sometimes certain people just aren't the right fit for an organization at that time. CLE got significantly better after firing Bickerstaff, but Bickerstaff was still a great hire for DET and has led to significant improvement there. JB may or may not be the guy to take DET to a Championship, but it definitely looks like he was the right guy for DET right now. The Spurs need the guy for right now more than they need the guy for Wemby's entire career. Would it be great to have that? Sure, but it's actually pretty unlikely so it would be foolish to make that your top priority.

As for Hurley... I don't think his antics are going to fly in the NBA. Seems like an idea college coach to me. I'm not all that high on him for us.

OK but Mike Brown was a pretty lousy coach with LeBron too.

[baseline bum]

sure but gotta also factor in what the kings were before mike brown. as scott said, he at least provides a respectable floor. he's not exactly on my wish list, but he's better than popomitch

It's like saying let's bring Tre Jones back because he's better than Vassell

[LeBowen]

It's like saying let's bring Tre Jones back because he's better than Vassell

I don't want Brown, but the issue is that there are not many coaches available.
We need someone who's not going to be Pop's pawn, can't expect that from someone who hasn't been in charge before.

[baseline bum]

Maybe - but even if it’s a bit simplistic, it should at least factor in, even if it’s not determinative by itself.

Edited because Brown was an assistant with the Warriors, after their first recent title, but during some of the others. That’s not bad. Kings situation was still odd though. Similar concerns with Budenholzer and the Bucks/Suns.

My biggest concern with Budenholzer is not being able to break free from Pop. I can't really blame him for Ishbia wrecking the Suns and Milwaukee has to regret that firing. But very concerned Pop will still be shadow coach just like now under Bud. Have that same concern with Brown too actually.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs have had exactly 1 coach who has made it four full years: Gregg Popovich. It's far more likely that our next coach is another guy who lasts less than 4 years than it is a guy who lasts 10+. We should mentally prepare ourselves for an underwhelming coaching hire, and that still might end up being a nice step forward for us.

Ugh I hope not. The Brown to Bass to Tark to Lucas to Hill to Pop roller coaster that defined David's prime was a nightmare I don't want to see repeated with Victor.

[spurraider21]

My biggest concern with Budenholzer is not being able to break free from Pop. I can't really blame him for Ishbia wrecking the Suns and Milwaukee has to regret that firing. But very concerned Pop will still be shadow coach just like now under Bud. Have that same concern with Brown too actually.
ive been on the budenholzer wagon but he's botching this year pretty badly. yes, the suns are poorly built, but they should be better than what we're seeing. he also clearly has some Pop left in him as he's been refusing to play Ryan Dunn even though they were doing well early in the year with him playing, and their net rating with Durant/Booker/Dunn is quite good, but he's fallen out of the rotation because he's a rookie and it would be fair to fucking bol bol i guess

[baseline bum]

ive been on the budenholzer wagon but he's botching this year pretty badly. yes, the suns are poorly built, but they should be better than what we're seeing. he also clearly has some Pop left in him as he's been refusing to play Ryan Dunn even though they were doing well early in the year with him playing, and their net rating with Durant/Booker/Dunn is quite good, but he's fallen out of the rotation because he's a rookie and it would be fair to fucking bol bol i guess

Prob trying to get fired :lol

[LeBowen]

If we do go with someone inexperienced, I want this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuomas_Iisalo

[baseline bum]

If we do go with someone inexperienced, I want this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuomas_Iisalo

God I would love to poach some of the Grizzlies staff.

[baseline bum]

Damn I wish Ty Lue hadn't signed that big extension last year, he'd be exactly who I was looking for. I don't know how the hell he can make the Clippers a competitive team with Kawhi out all the time and centered around the corpse of Harden's career.

[Ice009]

I always liked Mike Brown all the way back to his Spurs days. He hasn't done as well I thought he might overall as a head coach (I thought he'd be a super coach), but he's been pretty good IMO. And one reason I'd be very interested in him coaching is that I know he knows quite about about constructing a defense, and he will definitely emphasize defense. Plus, those years he spent on the Warriors as an assistant coach (I'm guessing Steve Kerr hired him due to them crossing paths when the were both in San Antonio, and maybe also for his expertise on defense?), he also would have come away with some understanding of running a a good offense too. Wasn't he also Steven Jackson's handler in the 2003 season and was the guy that kept him in line?

I also just had a look at his win/loss record when he coached the Cavs, and darn, they had better records than I remembered. I'm guessing he hasn't gotten the best reputation due to some of his teams underperforming in the playoffs, but I didn't really watch his teams closely and/or remember what kind of rosters he had to work with, but I wonder if they overachieved in the regular season.

[spurraider21]

i'd much rather have Vogel than Mike Brown. success at multiple stops, has experience coaching superstars. has experience coaching young rising stars. good defenses at multiple stops. plenty of playoff experience. and still young for a coach

[Ice009]

OK but Mike Brown was a pretty lousy coach with LeBron too.

Why was he a lousy coach? Apart from Lebron, did the Cavs have better rosters than the teams they lost to (I'm not remember each team's rosters from back then)? I just had a look now at who they lost to and I think they lost to some great teams 3-4 Vs Detroit in 2005-06, 0-4 Vs Spurs in 2007 finals, 3-4 Vs Celtics in 2007-08, 2-4 Vs Orlando in 2008-09 (this is one they may have underachieved and maybe should have won this series), 2-4 Vs Celtics in 2009-10 season. It's not like they lost to scrub teams. From what I remember, I think the Cavs overachieved in the regular season and most of those teams they lost to in the playoffs had best rosters.

It seems he has a career winning percentage of .599. And I'm sure he also played a big part in those Warriors championship seasons.

I'm not advocating for Mike Brown, but I also wouldn't be upset if they hired him.

[exstatic]

If we do go with someone inexperienced, I want this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuomas_Iisalo

This guy put in SUCH a cool offense this year with Memphis. They run almost no on ball picks, preferring to move the ball and the players. Because they don’t ball screen much, the second defender can’t jam the primary ball handler. When the ball handler drives towards another player, everyone rotates in a pre-determined direction. It’s almost impossible to help on defense, because the floor is so spread. You don’t even need to be a good shooter to thrive in this offense, because it creates both open looks AND huge driving lanes. There’s a reason that Memphis is close to the same productivity with or without Ja on the floor. Fox would beast in this offense, as would Castle and Keldon.

[scott]

Ugh I hope not. The Brown to Bass to Tark to Lucas to Hill to Pop roller coaster that defined David's prime was a nightmare I don't want to see repeated with Victor.

I certainly hope whoever we hire next becomes the next long-term HOF coach for the Spurs... but let's just face it, odds are they won't be. The average tenure of an NBA coach is around 3 years... the experience we had up until we hired Pop (even preceding Brown) was just the pretty typical.

We're just spoiled by having such a rare tenure with Pop, both in length but also the various types of teams he had. Most coaches don't take a young core all the way to the pinnacle of their achievement, like Pop did with TD/Tony/Manu. Michael Jordan even went through 3 other NBA coaches before Phil took the reins.

I don't know who the best coach for the Spurs is, and honestly I'm thankful it's not my job to figure that out... because there is a lot riding on it. However, in my opinion, I think the Spurs would be best off finding the right person to take us from where we are now to the next step (a playoff team) than trying to find the rare uniform coach that takes us from lottery team to championship dynasty team. Once you get there, then you can identify if you need to make a change to go from Playoff Team to Championship Team.

For now... the Mike Brown/JB Bickerstaff/Frank Vogel/Coach Bud type coach might actually be a good fit and the best we can get... I don't want perfect to be the enemy of good for us in this process. And I really don't want us to stick with Popo-Mitch because we couldn't land a perfect unicorn.

[baseline bum]

I don't want perfect to be the enemy of good for us in this process. And I really don't want us to stick with Popo-Mitch because we couldn't land a perfect unicorn.

Agreed. Just don't think Brown fits in the good category. Vogel would be a nice upgrade. Bud would too if Pop isn't being shadow coach. Maybe he'd give Bud his freedom since he's who Pop had been grooming for years to be his successor.

[scott]

Agreed. Just don't think Brown fits in the good category. Vogel would be a nice upgrade. Bud would too if Pop isn't being shadow coach. Maybe he'd give Bud his freedom since he's who Pop had been grooming for years to be his successor.

I don't have strong opinions of Mike Brown, but just generally put him in that category. I'm not in any way advocating for or against him.

[Ice009]

This guy put in SUCH a cool offense this year with Memphis. They run almost no on ball picks, preferring to move the ball and the players. Because they don’t ball screen much, the second defender can’t jam the primary ball handler. When the ball handler drives towards another player, everyone rotates in a pre-determined direction. It’s almost impossible to help on defense, because the floor is so spread. You don’t even need to be a good shooter to thrive in this offense, because it creates both open looks AND huge driving lanes. There’s a reason that Memphis is close to the same productivity with or without Ja on the floor. Fox would beast in this offense, as would Castle and Keldon.

Darn, this guy sounds super interesting, but would you give a guy with little NBA experience a head coaching slot right away?

[RC_Drunkford]

Mike Brown having the game plan of switching every pick & roll against the Spurs with Wemby was one of the most idiotic game plans I‘ve ever seen and every youtuber was scratching his head on why the fuck he would do that. Keep this dude away from the team.

[spurraider21]

Mike Brown having the game plan of switching every pick & roll against the Spurs with Wemby was one of the most idiotic game plans I‘ve ever seen and every youtuber was scratching his head on why the fuck he would do that. Keep this dude away from the team.
are you sure it wasnt just the Awful Coaching guy?

[objective]

Tiago Splitter come on down. Not doing super great in Euroleague, think he's 16-12, but whatever

[MannyIsGod]

I believe CP3 has the IQ and head to be an NBA coach, but I question if he has the "people skills" to succeed. I am referring to the stories of him wearing on his teammates over time, you don't necessarily need to be buddies with everyone, but you also need to find a balance where you don't come on so strong that you end up losing them.

I don't see it. At least not for a while because Paul has seemingly pissed off half the NBA to the point where they fucking hate him. Giannis wanted to kill him early this season which was kinda LOL because I've never seen that dude so angry.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs have a load of talent and a load of picks, along with the biggest superstar of the next two decades. They should be the preferred destination for every great coach in the world who wants to build a dynasty.

They won't, because Popovich won't let any light escape from the black hole of his ego, but they should be.

[MannyIsGod]

I actually think he'll step away in the offseason, but doesn't want to announce it and take attention from the team or be pressured into a farewell tour or something of the sort. I bet he'll announce in the offseason and try to fade away quietly. But if not, then yeah, I think it validates what OV just said.

[Obstructed_View]

I actually think he'll step away in the offseason, but doesn't want to announce it and take attention from the team or be pressured into a farewell tour or something of the sort. I bet he'll announce in the offseason and try to fade away quietly. But if not, then yeah, I think it validates what OV just said.

Hope you're right.

[baseline bum]

I actually think he'll step away in the offseason, but doesn't want to announce it and take attention from the team or be pressured into a farewell tour or something of the sort. I bet he'll announce in the offseason and try to fade away quietly. But if not, then yeah, I think it validates what OV just said.

He needs to do it early once the season is over. None of this uncertainty bullshit like he's fucking Trump or something.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This guy put in SUCH a cool offense this year with Memphis. They run almost no on ball picks, preferring to move the ball and the players. Because they don’t ball screen much, the second defender can’t jam the primary ball handler. When the ball handler drives towards another player, everyone rotates in a pre-determined direction. It’s almost impossible to help on defense, because the floor is so spread. You don’t even need to be a good shooter to thrive in this offense, because it creates both open looks AND huge driving lanes. There’s a reason that Memphis is close to the same productivity with or without Ja on the floor. Fox would beast in this offense, as would Castle and Keldon.


This. This is the guy they need to hire. But I have a super terrible feeling they will hire Mitch because Pop's a dumbass that wants to pass the torch to his ultimate ring kissing sycophant.

[CGD]

People would be understandably disappointed with a Mike Brown hire, but he'd be a major improvement over what we have now in Pop/Mitch.

Not even coach we hire is going to last 28 years, or even 5 years. Mike Brown would actually be a good "next step" coach to change some of the culture around here and take steps forward. If he plateau's, you move on and bring in the next guy to take it to the next level.

I think you’re right. Our version of Bickerstaff in Detroit. Clearly was not the guy for Cleveland given where they were on their timeline, but deserves a ton of credit with the Pistons.

[spurraider21]

This guy put in SUCH a cool offense this year with Memphis. They run almost no on ball picks, preferring to move the ball and the players. Because they don’t ball screen much, the second defender can’t jam the primary ball handler. When the ball handler drives towards another player, everyone rotates in a pre-determined direction. It’s almost impossible to help on defense, because the floor is so spread. You don’t even need to be a good shooter to thrive in this offense, because it creates both open looks AND huge driving lanes. There’s a reason that Memphis is close to the same productivity with or without Ja on the floor. Fox would beast in this offense, as would Castle and Keldon.
for those who want to visualize


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6-NPUOHH6I

[RC_Drunkford]

are you sure it wasnt just the Awful Coaching guy?

no literally everybody said why would he do that. It was blatantly obvious that that was a dumb strategy, cause Wemby could get any switch he wanted

[ginobilized]

for those who want to visualize


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6-NPUOHH6I

Thanks for sharing this! I'm a visual learner.
It will be telling to see where this lands in the playoffs. If Memphis and Boston make the finals, I could see others implementing this concept.

[Obstructed_View]

He needs to do it early once the season is over. None of this uncertainty bullshit like he's fucking Brett Favre or something.

Edited so people actually know what you're talking about. :tu

[scott]

for those who want to visualize


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6-NPUOHH6I

Great video. As I watched I was trying to envision the current Spurs personnel in this system and found myself... struggling to say the least.

[exstatic]

Great video. As I watched I was trying to envision the current Spurs personnel in this system and found myself... struggling to say the least.

You don’t have to shoot to take advantage of this offense.

[LeBowen]

Great video. As I watched I was trying to envision the current Spurs personnel in this system and found myself... struggling to say the least.

We spoke Fox into existance, maybe it's time to start promoting a coaching candidate. :lol

[scott]

You don’t have to shoot to take advantage of this offense.

The shooting isn't my concern, it the processing speed of a significant portion of our roster. Some of these guys don't even know where to be in our extremely simplistic schemes... this system asks a lot more of them.

[scott]

We spoke Fox into existance, maybe it's time to start promoting a coaching candidate. :lol

I am ready to throw my support behind pretty much any legitimate candidate at this point :lol

[benefactor]

The shooting isn't my concern, it the processing speed of a significant portion of our roster. Some of these guys don't even know where to be in our extremely simplistic schemes... this system asks a lot more of them.
You are being awfully nice. These guys are way too stupid to run that offense. We have a bunch of think like deer players. A partial roster overhaul would definitely be needed for it to work.

[spurraider21]

We spoke Fox into existance, maybe it's time to start promoting a coaching candidate. :lol
ima say Vogel

no shot he wants to stick around as an assistant for the mavs with Nico running that ship :lol

[CGD]

Thanks for sharing this! I'm a visual learner.
It will be telling to see where this lands in the playoffs. If Memphis and Boston make the finals, I could see others implementing this concept.

So basically the "beautiful game" lite?

[spurraider21]

You don’t have to shoot to take advantage of this offense.
i think the concern is a lot of these guys are basically asked to drive/score one on one without a ball screen. that seems good for Fox and even Keldon. Castle isnt there yet. Vassell is probably going to wind up pulling up for a jumper in lots of those situations. we already know sochan isnt great in those spots. HB can probably do well enough there if he has a slight advantage/closeout he's working with. champagnie's shooting hasnt quite lived up to what we've wanted. he's gotten a little better at beating closeouts though. and even wemby... one on one scoring isn't really his bread and butter right now.

on the other hand, Ja, Bane, JJJ are built for iso situations, even GG Jackson. though Larivia and Wells thriving is a good indicator our guys can pick it up

[scott]

You are being awfully nice. These guys are way too stupid to run that offense. We have a bunch of think like deer players. A partial roster overhaul would definitely be needed for it to work.

That's definitely what I was getting at... :)

[MannyIsGod]

Our players look stupid in this offense, but is it because they are stupid or because the offense is stupid? I'm just not ready to cast too much judgement given how bad this system has been for YEARS now.

[scott]

Our players look stupid in this offense, but is it because they are stupid or because the offense is stupid? I'm just not ready to cast too much judgement given how bad this system has been for YEARS now.

These guys suck at arithmetic, but maybe they'll excel at integral calculus. You never know.

[baseline bum]

These guys suck at arithmetic, but maybe they'll excel at integral calculus. You never know.

TBH I thought Pop's playbook was more like algebraic geometry. Thought it was supposed to be one of the most complicated playbooks in the league. Don't recall what player said it. Might have been Dejounte when he was on the StakJack & Barnes show. Or maybe it was Richard Jefferson who said it. Guess you can get away with a crazy playbook when you have Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, and Boris Diaw on your team.

[BackHome]

He needs to do it early once the season is over. None of this uncertainty bullshit like he's fucking Trump or something.

You mean more like Biden who thought his walking corpse could win and work for another 4 years. Our only hope is we witness another coup, I guess RC would be our Nancy not sure who would be our Obama?

I just hope they pick a better candidate then they did with Camala, but they probably do same stupid shit and force Mitch on us.

[scott]

TBH I thought Pop's playbook was more like algebraic geometry. Thought it was supposed to be one of the most complicated playbooks in the league. Don't recall what player said it. Might have been Dejounte when he was on the StakJack & Barnes show. Or maybe it was Richard Jefferson who said it. Guess you can get away with a crazy playbook when you have Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, and Boris Diaw on your team.

Doesn't look like that's the same playbook we're using today... seems like our entire playbook these days is PnR, DHO, Dribble Dribble Dribble oh fuck the shot clock is running out I better shoot

[spurraider21]

Doesn't look like that's the same playbook we're using today... seems like our entire playbook these days is PnR, DHO, Dribble Dribble Dribble oh fuck the shot clock is running out I better shoot
series of DHOs that generate no advantage and they just do them over and over again for no apparent reason

[RC_Drunkford]

series of DHOs that generate no advantage and they just do them over and over again for no apparent reason

cause Pop is stuck in 2002

[ambchang]

The shooting isn't my concern, it the processing speed of a significant portion of our roster. Some of these guys don't even know where to be in our extremely simplistic schemes... this system asks a lot more of them.

It’s similar to what I’ve been asking for all year if wemby is to play out at the 3 pt line, where the players will have loads of cutting along the baseline and refilling empty position along the way. Difference is that I was looking at more off ball screens and give and goes.

Agreed I have concerns about the processing speed of the team, but the youth of the team can help them run around all day without getting gassed.

[exstatic]

The thing about nearly eliminating ball picks is that you eliminate the ne seriously weak area of Wemby’s game: setting fucking picks.

[scott]

The thing about nearly eliminating ball picks is that you eliminate the ne seriously weak area of Wemby’s game: setting fucking picks.

I should clarify... I'd be totally game for a shift in that direction (at that coach's guidance specifically), but there are 3, maybe 4, players I'm specifically concerned about being able to execute that scheme. Two of them I specifically hope are traded this offseason though, so it's not a permanent obstacle.

[exstatic]

I should clarify... I'd be totally game for a shift in that direction (at that coach's guidance specifically), but there are 3, maybe 4, players I'm specifically concerned about being able to execute that scheme. Two of them I specifically hope are traded this offseason though, so it's not a permanent obstacle.

It’s new,but it’s probably easier than what SA is running now. You really only need to remember which way to rotate, clockwise or counter-clockwise, when the ball handler moves your way.

[Obstructed_View]

Victor does things no human has ever done in the game of basketball. There has to be someone out there who wants to develop an offense around him.

[spursistan]

ima say Vogel

no shot he wants to stick around as an assistant for the mavs with Nico running that ship :lol
He might be the most underrated coach in the league right now. He somehow extracted 49 wins out of this Phoenix roster and was unlucky they run into the Wolves buzzsaw when they were clicking on all cylinders. Won a title with the Lakers and made the Pacers a force in the East and the Heatles' biggest challengers (took Lebron to 2 seven-game series and one tough 6-gamer). His passage in Orlando is the only slight blemish in his career. I really think Spurs would especially benefit from an elite defensive mind like Frank.

Ishbia seems to be having a buyer's remorse, too. Not a good look for Bud here and i think he is secretly wanting to get fired so he can jump in to the Spurs boat which will guarantee him massive job security giving the Pop factor, not to mention a far better prospects with Wemby as the cornerstone of the roster..

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1901702694328287412

[exstatic]

He might be the most underrated coach in the league right now. He somehow extracted 49 wins out of this Phoenix roster and was unlucky they run into the Wolves buzzsaw when they were clicking on all cylinders. Won a title with the Lakers and made the Pacers a force in the East and the Heatles' biggest challengers (took Lebron to 2 seven-game series and one tough 6-gamer). His passage in Orlando is the only slight blemish in his career. I really think Spurs would especially benefit from an elite defensive mind like Frank.

Ishbia seems to be having a buyer's remorse, too. Not a good look for Bud here and i think he is secretly wanting to get fired so he can jump in to the Spurs boat which will guarantee him massive job security giving the Pop factor, not to mention a far better prospects with Wemby as the cornerstone of the roster..

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1901702694328287412

Amico is the imposter. Amick is the real guy. Take this with a very large grain of salt. By all accounts, KD is gone, so no need to appease him, anyway.

[spursistan]

Amico is the imposter. Amick is the real guy. Take this with a very large grain of salt. By all accounts, KD is gone, so no need to appease him, anyway.
Yeah I know Amico doesn't have a stellar reputation, but this wouldn't surprise me still. There is a solid argument that Bud has been underwhelming at Phoenix, which underscores Vogel's job in retrospect wringing out near 50 wins out of a slightly weaker roster (no PG, more injuries)..

[scott]

I think it would be fun if PHX just always got a new coach every year. Just as an experiment, to see what happens...

[Ocotillo]

Well, since the ship has already sailed on my first choice (Atkinson, because of his developmental prowess while coaching the Nets) You guys have talked me into Vogel.

[CGD]

Beautifully written piece on this situation today on ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44254076/pop-decision-earned-gregg-popovich-fight-return-san-antonio-spurs


And lol at the thought Spurs would ever trade Keldon…

[Bill_Brasky]

He might be the most underrated coach in the league right now. He somehow extracted 49 wins out of this Phoenix roster and was unlucky they run into the Wolves buzzsaw when they were clicking on all cylinders. Won a title with the Lakers and made the Pacers a force in the East and the Heatles' biggest challengers (took Lebron to 2 seven-game series and one tough 6-gamer). His passage in Orlando is the only slight blemish in his career. I really think Spurs would especially benefit from an elite defensive mind like Frank.

Ishbia seems to be having a buyer's remorse, too. Not a good look for Bud here and i think he is secretly wanting to get fired so he can jump in to the Spurs boat which will guarantee him massive job security giving the Pop factor, not to mention a far better prospects with Wemby as the cornerstone of the roster..

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1901702694328287412

KD doesn't get enough shit for being a coach killer and shitty GM. He "just wants to hoop" but also got Atkinson fired to bring in Nash, who he also got fired. Forced the Nets to do the trade for Harden. Forced his way out and then got Vogel fired. Pushed for the Beal trade. Now Bud is his newest victim.

He is everything people accuse Lebron of being.

[Ice009]

So those of you that want KD, if Bud is fired, who would you choose between KD and Bud? I assume if the Spurs hired Mike Budenholzer if he was fired, KD would not have any interest in coming here.

Also, what were the reasons for KD wanting Atkinson out? Did he just not want to give him a chance?

[Seventyniner]

So those of you that want KD, if Bud is fired, who would you choose between KD and Bud? I assume if the Spurs hired Mike Budenholzer if he was fired, KD would not have any interest in coming here.

Also, what were the reasons for KD wanting Atkinson out? Did he just not want to give him a chance?

Bud and it's not even close. Bud provides a lot more long-term value and wouldn't cost any assets (picks, players).

[scott]

KD doesn't get enough shit for being a coach killer and shitty GM. He "just wants to hoop" but also got Atkinson fired to bring in Nash, who he also got fired. Forced the Nets to do the trade for Harden. Forced his way out and then got Vogel fired. Pushed for the Beal trade. Now Bud is his newest victim.

He is everything people accuse Lebron of being.

Yep… except LeBron actually delivers the goods, while KD just leaves you falling short

[spurraider21]

KD doesn't get enough shit for being a coach killer and shitty GM. He "just wants to hoop" but also got Atkinson fired to bring in Nash, who he also got fired. Forced the Nets to do the trade for Harden. Forced his way out and then got Vogel fired. Pushed for the Beal trade. Now Bud is his newest victim.

He is everything people accuse Lebron of being.
i might just be ignorant, but how do we know Durant pushed for the Harden trade and the Beal trade?

[scott]

ESPN has a feature length story on Pop this morning: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44254076/pop-decision-earned-gregg-popovich-fight-return-san-antonio-spurs

A story like this only comes out under two circumstances: 1) Spurs PR are setting up the plan for Pop to eventually return (on an unknown timeline, with Mitch as interim until then) or 2) Spurs PR are setting up Pop’s retirement.

I lean to #1 just based on the tone of the story. It’s not the career retrospective of a GOAT coach that Pop will eventually deserve… it read to me totally like it’s setting things up for a long protracted wait on Pop, because, as the article basically states “he deserves that much”

Buckle up boys and girls.

[CGD]

So those of you that want KD, if Bud is fired, who would you choose between KD and Bud? I assume if the Spurs hired Mike Budenholzer if he was fired, KD would not have any interest in coming here.

Also, what were the reasons for KD wanting Atkinson out? Did he just not want to give him a chance?

Bud

[Bill_Brasky]

i might just be ignorant, but how do we know Durant pushed for the Harden trade and the Beal trade?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10094834-suns-kevin-durant-says-he-pushed-for-bradley-beal-trade-wants-input-on-roster

[Chillen]

Pop needs to retire. If Suns fire Bud than Spurs need to go hard after him and make him our future long term head coach.

[BatManu20]

Pop needs to retire. If Suns fire Bud than Spurs need to go hard after him and make him our future long term head coach.

Seconded. It's time to turn the page on Pop. It's been time for a while now. The guys turns 77 next season and just had a stroke... I mean what are we even talking about here.

[Mugen]

Jesus christ, just retire or stick to a front office role.

[Dex]

KD doesn't get enough shit for being a coach killer and shitty GM. He "just wants to hoop" but also got Atkinson fired to bring in Nash, who he also got fired. Forced the Nets to do the trade for Harden. Forced his way out and then got Vogel fired. Pushed for the Beal trade. Now Bud is his newest victim.

He is everything people accuse Lebron of being.

Without the winning unless he had a 73-9 team dragging him to the Finals so that he could claim FMVP

[Uriel]

Beautifully written piece on this situation today on ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44254076/pop-decision-earned-gregg-popovich-fight-return-san-antonio-spurs


And lol at the thought Spurs would ever trade Keldon…
To me, the most interesting tidbit from that article was that Steve Kerr was considered a potential successor to Popovich until he signed an extension with Golden State.

[The Truth #6]

ESPN has a feature length story on Pop this morning: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44254076/pop-decision-earned-gregg-popovich-fight-return-san-antonio-spurs

A story like this only comes out under two circumstances: 1) Spurs PR are setting up the plan for Pop to eventually return (on an unknown timeline, with Mitch as interim until then) or 2) Spurs PR are setting up Pop’s retirement.

I lean to #1 just based on the tone of the story. It’s not the career retrospective of a GOAT coach that Pop will eventually deserve… it read to me totally like it’s setting things up for a long protracted wait on Pop, because, as the article basically states “he deserves that much”

Buckle up boys and girls.

I think Pop will eventually realize he can't coach anymore but it will be way too late in the process. The FO needs to suggest a variety of options for how he can still contribute but I don't think anyone will because it's also their careers on the line that will also likely be lost.

I expect Bud to be honest, because the FO will feel compelled to keep Pop's vision going. In fact, it seems almost inconceivable that the same FO who will let Pop decide the team's fate would then feel emboldened to totally start over in a bold new direction. Even with Pop gone his legacy and shadow will be immense.

[ambchang]

While I understand the human side of things, I generally do not agree with the “hed earned of so he can do what he wants” approach to coaching.

For players, the impact are not as profound u less you pull a Kobe that basically ran the entire organization to the ground. Those are rare cases but we’ve seen cases where players like olajuwon, Ewing, iverson, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade and other greats given an option to either take a reduced role or get out of the way.

For coaches, the impact is far greater as he has a much larger impact on the direction of the entire team, not to mention the mentality instilled in a young team like the spurs. I’m rather dismayed that Pop seems to be holding the spurs hostage because he still wants to hang on. This from a guy who continuously reminded everyone (correctly) that this is just a game and that people has to get over themselves. I love pop, I’ve defended him all along until this year when it’s getting obvious the coaching and FO actions are holding the team back (much later than most). I’m not ashamed of being a sniffer as Pop guided my favourite team to 2 decades of glory. I still love him and grateful that he was on the spurs and that he was one of, if not the greatest nba coach of all time. But the time has come and it would be disheartening to see him pull a kobe and destroy his own legacy because he can’t let go.

[Ice009]

I've actually been a little late to the party too. I've disagreed with a lot of what Pop has done the past 6 or 7 years, but I always still thought that he could be great, or at least really good again if he had a good team to work with. I think this season and a good chunk of last season has made me realize that he might be holding the team and players back.
I don't know if he wasn't coaching hard (not emphasizing defense, not holding players accountable, not pulling players for mistakes etc.) the previous years as the Spurs were looking to get higher draft picks, but now it just seems like the players that had potential, they haven't developed at all and some have even regressed. It looked like this season he was trying to get back to his old self, but we didn't get to see how it played out due to the unfortunate thing that happened with his health :(. I really did want to see how he'd go this season as I thought he wasn't going to tolerate things he had be letting go the previous few seasons. I really thought he was going to get on guys about defense, so I'm not sure what would have happened if his health was OK and he was able to coach the whole season. It's a really crappy situation. He's done so much for the Spurs, it's tough to kick him to the curb like this, so I understand why it must be a tough/gut wrenching decision for those within the organization.

The only way I could see this maybe working is if the Spurs get Bud as the HC and Pop sort of becomes his 1b. I don't know if it's worth risking his health being the head coach. But who am I to tell someone like Pop he can't do it and make his way back from this.

[RC_Drunkford]

If Pop was coaching the whole season we‘d have even better draft odds. He would‘ve at least dropped 3-4 games that we won in the first half of the season due to his antics

[djohn2oo8]

ESPN has a feature length story on Pop this morning: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44254076/pop-decision-earned-gregg-popovich-fight-return-san-antonio-spurs

A story like this only comes out under two circumstances: 1) Spurs PR are setting up the plan for Pop to eventually return (on an unknown timeline, with Mitch as interim until then) or 2) Spurs PR are setting up Pop’s retirement.

I lean to #1 just based on the tone of the story. It’s not the career retrospective of a GOAT coach that Pop will eventually deserve… it read to me totally like it’s setting things up for a long protracted wait on Pop, because, as the article basically states “he deserves that much”

Buckle up boys and girls.
Oh no

[BatManu20]

The old man holding this franchise hostage :lol

1902389956691042742

[spurraider21]

its post-debate biden all over again :lol

hopefully we allow for an open primary to give a chance to outside talent instead of waiting last minute and anointing mitch harris

[slick'81]

Pop remains

[Robz4000]

its post-debate biden all over again :lol

hopefully we allow for an open primary to give a chance to outside talent instead of waiting last minute and anointing mitch harris

:depressed

[exstatic]

I think he’s leaving. Why else the tears in the room when he finally met with the team, post Houston game?

[Mugen]

I think he’s leaving. Why else the tears in the room when he finally met with the team, post Houston game?

He told them he was coming back next year.

[exstatic]

He told them he was coming back next year.

No, that would be Noah’s ark level tears on ST.

[The Truth #6]

I think he’s leaving. Why else the tears in the room when he finally met with the team, post Houston game?

Maybe a normal human emotion to feel in the moment?

[Ice009]

Maybe a normal human emotion to feel in the moment?

Ahh yeah, that's what I was thinking. It was just some emotion shown since he's the coach and hadn't been there most of the season. Nothing else. People are overthinking.

[BatManu20]

He told them he was coming back next year.

:lol

[GAustex]

He told them he was coming back next year.
Lol

[Pauleta14]

Pop remains by far the best option ... as long as nobody else worthy is available.

Mitch makes things a lot worse and not sure what Bud would bring tbh

Pop is perfect to keep developing Wemby and Castle and integrating Fox for at least a season, then let's hope either Memphis or Houston make the stupid move to get rid of their coaches

[djohn2oo8]

Pop remains by far the best option ... as long as nobody else worthy is available.

Mitch makes things a lot worse and not sure what Bud would bring tbh

Pop is perfect to keep developing Wemby and Castle and integrating Fox for at least a season, then let's hope either Memphis or Houston make the stupid move to get rid of their coaches
The Rockets nor Grizzlies are getting rid of the coaches. Pop needs to retire. He isn’t up for the grind of developing a young team anymore. Spurs need a coach now to help guys break their bad habits.

[poopbox]

Pop remains by far the best option ... as long as nobody else worthy is available.

Mitch makes things a lot worse and not sure what Bud would bring tbh

Pop is perfect to keep developing Wemby and Castle and integrating Fox for at least a season, then let's hope either Memphis or Houston make the stupid move to get rid of their coaches

A coach who was on his way to his 6th straight losing season is "the best option" :wow

[GAustex]

Pop remains by far the best option ... as long as nobody else worthy is available.

Mitch makes things a lot worse and not sure what Bud would bring tbh

Pop is perfect to keep developing Wemby and Castle and integrating Fox for at least a season, then let's hope either Memphis or Houston make the stupid move to get rid of their coaches

Lol

[Gandalf]

Hurley got knocked out of the tourney, that ends the ‘three-peat’ attempt. Hope the Spurs are on the phone with him - but I expect they’re not.

[Pauleta14]

Why would a coach with no NBA experience be a good idea exactly?

[LeBowen]

Why would a coach with no NBA experience be a good idea exactly?

It would be a gamble, but there's an argument that it's better to gamble than get a subpar veteran coach since currently available options aren't great.

[Pauleta14]

It would be a gamble, but there's an argument that it's better to gamble than get a subpar veteran coach since currently available options aren't great.

I don't know him enough to have a solid opinion tbh, but history says he'll need a period of adaptation at best.

+ Quid about his personality, level of psychology and management of adults and not students?

Not trying to be a contrarian but it's not an exciting perspective to me.

I'm afraid Spurs will prioritize corporate culture and find a way to sell Mitch for another season.

[ginobilized]

My worry is that Pop waits too long to retire and we miss a summer of strong leadership, development and planning. Running it back with Mitch as the backup plan is not going to work out optimally for anyone.
Pop might be waiting until the season ends to decide or announce retirement or return.

I'm not on the Coach Bud train. He looks out of sorts the past couple of seasons and PHX has shown little to increase my faith in him.

Hard to know where Mitch ranks in the minds of the FO moving forward.

[stnick2261]

Following the recommendations here to poach the Grizzlies' assistant coach, I did a deep dive on them.

I did not realize their head coach (Taylor Jenkins) interned with the Spurs, was head coach of the Austin Toros, and even had some overlap along with Quin Snyder there. Then, he was assistant coach to Mike Budenholzer in Atlanta and even followed him to Milwaukee.

I could definitely be wrong (since I'm getting most of my info from Google) and please correct me if I am, but it seems coach Bud uses a "5-Out" offense. When Coach Jenkins went to Memphis, he brought in Noah La Roche (who's been running the "Read & React" offense since 2006) and EuroCup Coach of the Year: Tuomas Iisalo (who runs a "Read & React" clinic).

Iisalo incorporated Coach Pop's "0.5" Basketball into his system.

When Iisalo came to the Grizzlies, Tiago Splitter took over the Paris team with similar success (keeping the same system).

I don't want Coach Bud, but I am intrigued about these coaches running the "Read & React" offense (La Roche, Iisalo, and Splitter).

[baseline bum]

My worry is that Pop waits too long to retire and we miss a summer of strong leadership, development and planning. Running it back with Mitch as the backup plan is not going to work out optimally for anyone.
Pop might be waiting until the season ends to decide or announce retirement or return.

I'm not on the Coach Bud train. He looks out of sorts the past couple of seasons and PHX has shown little to increase my faith in him.

Hard to know where Mitch ranks in the minds of the FO moving forward.

I know Pop made a promise to Victor to be there five years for him but life happens and I hope he recognizes that promise is now impossible and that the team needs to go get a coach this offseason. Pop coming back would just be ensuring Mitch is coach again next season whenever Pop suffers another setback.

[baseline bum]

Following the recommendations here to poach the Grizzlies' assistant coach, I did a deep dive on them.

I did not realize their head coach (Taylor Jenkins) interned with the Spurs, was head coach of the Austin Toros, and even had some overlap along with Quin Snyder there. Then, he was assistant coach to Mike Budenholzer in Atlanta and even followed him to Milwaukee.

I could definitely be wrong (since I'm getting most of my info from Google) and please correct me if I am, but it seems coach Bud uses a "5-Out" offense. When Coach Jenkins went to Memphis, he brought in Noah La Roche (who's been running the "Read & React" offense since 2006) and EuroCup Coach of the Year: Tuomas Lisalo (who runs a "Read & React" clinic).

Lisalo incorporated Coach Pop's "0.5" Basketball into his system.

When Lisalo came to the Grizzlies, Tiago Splitter took over the Paris team with similar success (keeping the same system).

I don't want Coach Bud, but I am intrigued about these coaches running the "Read & React" offense (La Roche, Lisalo, and Splitter).

If the Spurs can't get Lisalo wouldn't mind giving Tiago a shot. Shit bring Lisalo in as head coach and develop Tiago as an assistant.

[LeBowen]

If the Spurs can't get Lisalo wouldn't mind giving Tiago a shot. Shit bring Lisalo in as head coach and develop Tiago as an assistant.

*It's Iisalo with two i, not L.

Iirc, I was the first to bring him up here, I'd rather have him than Hurley. He's my #1 choice if we're talking cocahes with no NBA head coaching experience.
He made his way from a completely irrelevant basketball country, was successful in both Germany and France, two very different basketball cultures, and has transformed Grizzlies offense this season.

[Splits]

There is no doctor on this planet that is going to clear Pop to return to the bench after a stroke. It's one of the most stressful jobs imaginable, he's done.

Would like to go full Frenchie and bring Vincent Collet on in some role, try to groom him to take over the HC job.

[tonight...you]

Following the recommendations here to poach the Grizzlies' assistant coach, I did a deep dive on them.

I did not realize their head coach (Taylor Jenkins) interned with the Spurs, was head coach of the Austin Toros, and even had some overlap along with Quin Snyder there. Then, he was assistant coach to Mike Budenholzer in Atlanta and even followed him to Milwaukee.

I could definitely be wrong (since I'm getting most of my info from Google) and please correct me if I am, but it seems coach Bud uses a "5-Out" offense. When Coach Jenkins went to Memphis, he brought in Noah La Roche (who's been running the "Read & React" offense since 2006) and EuroCup Coach of the Year: Tuomas Iisalo (who runs a "Read & React" clinic).

Iisalo incorporated Coach Pop's "0.5" Basketball into his system.

When Iisalo came to the Grizzlies, Tiago Splitter took over the Paris team with similar success (keeping the same system).

I don't want Coach Bud, but I am intrigued about these coaches running the "Read & React" offense (La Roche, Iisalo, and Splitter).
Good stuff. Shout out to LeBowen for eyeballing him a while ago.

[baseline bum]

There is no doctor on this planet that is going to clear Pop to return to the bench after a stroke. It's one of the most stressful jobs imaginable, he's done.

Would like to go full Frenchie and bring Vincent Collet on in some role, try to groom him to take over the HC job.

Tbh wasn't really impressed with the shots Collet was getting Victor in the ten or so Mets92 games I watched.

[baseline bum]

*It's Iisalo with two i, not L.

Iirc, I was the first to bring him up here, I'd rather have him than Hurley. He's my #1 choice if we're talking cocahes with no NBA head coaching experience.
He made his way from a completely irrelevant basketball country, was successful in both Germany and France, two very different basketball cultures, and has transformed Grizzlies offense this season.

Yeah he has supplanted Hurley as my #1 choice too, and he's very much gettable. He may be in a great situation in Memphis but he's not head coach and Memphis can't really stop a talent like him from advancing the same way the Spurs couldn't hold back Presti back in the day.

[baseline bum]

*It's Iisalo with two i, not L.

Iirc, I was the first to bring him up here, I'd rather have him than Hurley. He's my #1 choice if we're talking cocahes with no NBA head coaching experience.
He made his way from a completely irrelevant basketball country, was successful in both Germany and France, two very different basketball cultures, and has transformed Grizzlies offense this season.

Plus you go that route it means you have to dump Vassell. Can't have him dribbling the air out of the ball in Iisalo's offense. So another big plus.

[LeBowen]

Plus you go that route it means you have to dump Vassell. Can't have him dribbling the air out of the ball in Iisalo's offense. So another big plus.

As much as I hate Devin's game, they're obviously trying hard to coach Kobe out of him.
If we're talking about dribbling the air, we have to admit Wemby is the biggest concern in that regard. :lol

[quentin_compson]

There is no doctor on this planet that is going to clear Pop to return to the bench after a stroke. It's one of the most stressful jobs imaginable, he's done.

Would like to go full Frenchie and bring Vincent Collet on in some role, try to groom him to take over the HC job.

Ugh, the guy who had France play such weird and ugly basketball at the Olympics? No thanks.

[Ice009]

Ugh, the guy who had France play such weird and ugly basketball at the Olympics? No thanks.

Keen to hear what other French fans think about this ;). I don't think you'll get good reviews. I think Victor himself might not be for it. I remember talking to Pauletta14 during the Olympics here at ST about his coaching. We weren't impressed to say the least.

I wouldn't mind giving Tuomas Iisalo a shot if the Spurs were going to go with somone that has no NBA head coaching experience. I was very interested in Hurley due to Steph speaking very highly of him and what I've read about him doing at UConn, but as the season has gone on, I like the sounds of someone like Iisalo a bit more. Coach Bud, I would have loved a couple of years ago, but I've cooled on him a bit too.

With Mitch Johnson, I'm curious, do you guys think he's been given total control, if not, do you think he could do better if given total freedom to do what he wants? I mean, he had other teams interested in him as a potential head coach (I think Raptors were one of them, can't remember who else? Was it Atlanta before they got Snyder?), so it's seems he's well regarded. Brook Lopez (I can't find the article with the quotes) said they used to called him "The Maestro" on their college team due to his extensive knowledge of the game even back then when he was playing and hadn't even started coaching.

[scott]

Following the recommendations here to poach the Grizzlies' assistant coach, I did a deep dive on them.

I did not realize their head coach (Taylor Jenkins) interned with the Spurs, was head coach of the Austin Toros, and even had some overlap along with Quin Snyder there. Then, he was assistant coach to Mike Budenholzer in Atlanta and even followed him to Milwaukee.

I could definitely be wrong (since I'm getting most of my info from Google) and please correct me if I am, but it seems coach Bud uses a "5-Out" offense. When Coach Jenkins went to Memphis, he brought in Noah La Roche (who's been running the "Read & React" offense since 2006) and EuroCup Coach of the Year: Tuomas Iisalo (who runs a "Read & React" clinic).

Iisalo incorporated Coach Pop's "0.5" Basketball into his system.

When Iisalo came to the Grizzlies, Tiago Splitter took over the Paris team with similar success (keeping the same system).

I don't want Coach Bud, but I am intrigued about these coaches running the "Read & React" offense (La Roche, Iisalo, and Splitter).

I'm with you on this approach in general, not just limited to the Grizzlies assistants. I'd look at any of the top teams, much like teams would poach our coaches. I'm okay with picking fruit from a far extended branch of the Pop coaching tree, but the only direct disciple I'm interested in is Becky (though the clock is ticking there, if nothing is done with Becky in the first week or two after the NBA season, it likely won't happen at all as then we'll get into the WNBA season and I doubt Becky will allow herself be caught up in he distraction of interviewing for the Spurs job while actively coaching the Aces).

I'd also be up for rolling the dice with Coach Manu. It would be a huge risk, but one I'd be willing to take with Manu.

Edit: would also be happy with Tiago, who is part of the Pop Tree the same way Kerr is... and if Ime were available I'd also be good with him. So there are some exceptions to the Pop tree for me.

[baseline bum]

If we're talking about dribbling the air, we have to admit Wemby is the biggest concern in that regard. :lol

Agreed there too :lol

[baseline bum]

I'd also be up for rolling the dice with Coach Manu. It would be a huge risk, but one I'd be willing to take with Manu.


Can't say I like the idea of players with star level skill being coaches. Always seems it's the role players like Phil Jackson, Kerr, Ty Lue, etc who are best able to teach fundamentals and become great coaches as opposed to the stars like Doug Collins, Nash, Kidd, West, McHale, etc who had the talent to break fundamentals. And Manu is the embodiment of breaking the fundamentals. Need someone who can teach the role players to be good.

[tonight...you]

I'm with you on this approach in general, not just limited to the Grizzlies assistants. I'd look at any of the top teams, much like teams would poach our coaches. I'm okay with picking fruit from a far extended branch of the Pop coaching tree, but the only direct disciple I'm interested in is Becky (though the clock is ticking there, if nothing is done with Becky in the first week or two after the NBA season, it likely won't happen at all as then we'll get into the WNBA season and I doubt Becky will allow herself be caught up in he distraction of interviewing for the Spurs job while actively coaching the Aces).

I'd also be up for rolling the dice with Coach Manu. It would be a huge risk, but one I'd be willing to take with Manu.

Edit: would also be happy with Tiago, who is part of the Pop Tree the same way Kerr is... and if Ime were available I'd also be good with him. So there are some exceptions to the Pop tree for me.
I believe Manu has already made it known he's not interested in full time coaching of the team. He just likes to do a little bit of everything with them as far as developing and being around. That was a semi-quote from a podcast in '23.

[TD 21]

Iisalo is so ingenious that the Grizzlies half court offense, long an issue and after a strong start is . . . back to struggling.

This is not a "system" league anymore. The skill of the players and relaxed rules led to the league outgrowing them and an analytic driven, homogenized style emerging.

The Grizzlies probably only even got away with installing an atypical offense because Morant had no leg to stand on after his off court transgressions.

Can't imagine Wembanyama, Fox and if he emerges as a star, Castle being amendable to being boxed into something that represses creativity/counting stats and potentially accolades.

This is not the post prime Duncan and Ginobili big three who had to play an atypical style to keep up with the elites.

Like it or not, Johnson is probably the favorite (maybe Budenholzer, since the timing might align) to succeed Pop. He's already forged relationships with the players, is young, will be inexpensive and can "grow" with them.

[LeBowen]

They're 43-28 with Ja, JJJ and Bane playing just 30 games together. I'd say their system is working.
But you're a clown who thinks Atkinson isn't the difference maker for the Cavs, so it's even pointless engaging on this matter.

[Splits]

Can't say I like the idea of players with star level skill being coaches. Always seems it's the role players like Phil Jackson, Kerr, Ty Lue, etc who are best able to teach fundamentals and become great coaches as opposed to the stars like Doug Collins, Nash, Kidd, West, McHale, etc who had the talent to break fundamentals. And Manu is the embodiment of breaking the fundamentals. Need someone who can teach the role players to be good.

Manu was a role player

[exstatic]

Manu was a role player

Uh,no. Just because he came off the bench doesn’t make him a role player. His career USG% is 24.5, not the usage of a role player. Role players also don’t notch multiple ASGs and All NBA selections.

[baseline bum]

Manu was a role player

Only because his body couldn't handle a superstar role. On skill though he was top of the line. One of the nastiest drivers we have ever seen, one of the best passing SG's in league history, an almost Kyrie level layup package, and had that unguradable stepback years before Harden made his living off it.

[Splits]

Uh,no. Just because he came off the bench doesn’t make him a role player. His career USG% is 24.5, not the usage of a role player. Role players also don’t notch multiple ASGs and All NBA selections.

2 ASG. 2 all-NBA-3rd team. 8 6MOY in the top-10.

Role player if there ever was one

[Splits]

Especially compared to TP, 6 ASG, 3 all NBA 2nd, 1 all NBA 3rd. He was a star

[MannyIsGod]

LOL, Manu was not a role player and saying he was is insane. Dude was a star.

[ChumpDumper]

Manu and Tony were both pretty. What is wrong with spurfan?

[GAustex]

Hurley has UConn playing a beautiful game. They damn near beat a way more talented Fla team.

UConn has been well oiled for the past 3 years.

Hurley is kind of a jerk though

Just saying

[GAustex]

I miss Manu

[scott]

All players are role players, if you think about it

[TD 21]

The Grizzlies won 56 and 51 games while finishing 4th in net rating (same as this season to date) in '22 and '23 respectively . . . but don't let facts get in the way of tribalism.

Fix the roster and magically the coaching will be fixed too. They don't need some white flavor of the month/savior to rescue them.

[koriwhat]

Unfortunately, Pop's never returning. Yall are fools for believing such nonsense.

[SpursBills]

Only because his body couldn't handle a superstar role. On skill though he was top of the line. One of the nastiest drivers we have ever seen, one of the best passing SG's in league history, an almost Kyrie level layup package, and had that unguradable stepback years before Harden made his living off it.

This.

https://i.postimg.cc/pdzRMYGx/HOF-SGs.jpg

[RC_Drunkford]

Fortunately, Pop's never returning. Yall are fools for believing such nonsense.

FIFY

[Ice009]

2 ASG. 2 all-NBA-3rd team. 8 6MOY in the top-10.

Role player if there ever was one

Not sure if you're trolling or what?

He's one of the greatest playoff performers in NBA history. That's not role player stuff at all. He almost went to Superstar levels in the playoffs. He used to almost always raise his game in the playoffs where most players usually are the opposite, and their performance decreases in the playoffs compared to their regular season). He was darn good in high pressure situations a lot of the time too with the ball in his hands to close games (apart from the 2013 finals where he was uncharacteristically bad in some of those games).

As baseline bum also mentioned, during his prime, he was one of the best at attacking the basket. During a 20 year stretch, I'd say Jordan, D-Wade and Manu were the best at attacking the rim and penetrating to score and finish (not just draw fouls like James Harden). He changed his style of play up later in his career, but that style of play that Manu and D-Wade where known for (GOING HARD to the rack) doesn't help your body. It was best to bring Manu off the bench due to this.

[itzsoweezee]

Memphis fired Jenkins. What a stupid move. He’s be the perfect pop replacement

[stnick2261]

Memphis fired Jenkins. What a stupid move. He’s be the perfect pop replacement

You're kidding.... bring him and his assistants.

EDIT: I wonder why he was fired. He's a former Spurs(ish) coach so I can see Pop bringing him back like someone in his coaching tree.

[Mugen]

I'm a fan of Jenkins tbh.

But the timing is super suspect. There has to be some behind the scenes stuff that's gonna come to light soon.

[NASpurs]

As long as he can bring his people and gets rid of the trash on the sidelines, I'm up for it.

[exstatic]

I'm a fan of Jenkins tbh.

But the timing is super suspect. There has to be some behind the scenes stuff that's gonna come to light soon.

Probably the usual player revolt. Boring.

[Ice009]

Yeah, I don't see if being anything too controversial. I think players and him were just clashing. Not sure what type of personality he has as I don't remember seeing any interviews with him.

[baseline bum]

Probably the usual player revolt. Boring.

Probably in combination with wanting to get Iisalo into that HC spot so the Spurs can't come poach him.

[stephen jackson]

We’re in love with Mitch for some reason won’t ever happen

[Ice009]

Who's in love with Mitch? I'm certainly not. I think he's decent, but that is because I don't know if he's calling the shots or being told what to do. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as I think he's not been given full freedom to do what he wants. If he has, then I don't know if I'd want him as the full-time coach.

[slick'81]

Fck Memphis and their trash

[tonight...you]

All you guys talking about bringing him in with his assistants?
His assistants are getting poached and Iisalo is probably going to be the Grizz HC.
Maybe LaRoche. Maybe.

[stnick2261]

Someone who is better at basketball than me... would Splitter's defense in Paris work here? Obviously the rules are different in Europe as well as the personnel. He took over for Iisalo and continued their success.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcJ3iIQLa8k

[exstatic]

Someone who is better at basketball than me... would Splitter's defense in Paris work here? Obviously the rules are different in Europe as well as the personnel. He took over for Iisalo and continued their success.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcJ3iIQLa8k

I do know that there is no defensive 3 seconds, and that would change the way you’re able to play.

[OldMan88]

Although I think the Memphis read & react offensive is real interesting, I don’t know if Wemby’s conditioning is up to the extremely high pace of the constant movement involved.

[BatManu20]

1908994246993920396

[scott]

^^^ Mike Finger went pretty hard after Dusty Garza for being a hack for the post above (it was Finger speaking from his Podcast, not some "Associated Press" reporters... Dusty called them that because the photo credits were from various AP photographers and Dusty is too stupid and lazy to do a basic level of clicking to properly credit journalists... because Dusty isn't one)

[rjv]

i saw that back and forth. dusty is a hack but i also found it weird that they were bickering over some "report" that didn't reveal anything that most spurs fans didn't already know.

[Dex]

All players are role players, if you think about it

https://notesfromachair.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/schgvkt.gif

[spursistan]

I know the majority would still take him, but surely Bud's stock has dropped with many after this Phoenix stint? Just a dismal job done there..8 straight losses and counting and not like the Suns are tanking.. And in retrospect, Frank Vogel squeezed lemonade out that roster, which should earn him interviews for the most coveted coaching vacancies next season (Denver, Memphis probably New York & Pelicans)

[scott]

I know the majority would still take him, but surely Bud's stock has dropped with many after this Phoenix stint? Just a dismal job done there..8 straight losses and counting and not like the Suns are tanking.. And in retrospect, Frank Vogel squeezed lemonade out that roster, which should earn him interviews for the most coveted coaching vacancies next season (Denver, Memphis probably New York & Pelicans)

He's clearly lost the team, after losing the team in MIL... maybe Bud doesn't have the touch anymore.

On another note... the fact that Pop hasn't made a public appearance at all (I know he has been seen driving to the facility) indicates to me that he's maybe not in a state where he wants to be seen, which would certainly indicate he's nowhere near being able to return to coaching.

Two games left, hopefully this thing doesn't drag on much further than Sunday.

[spurraider21]

I know the majority would still take him, but surely Bud's stock has dropped with many after this Phoenix stint? Just a dismal job done there..8 straight losses and counting and not like the Suns are tanking.. And in retrospect, Frank Vogel squeezed lemonade out that roster, which should earn him interviews for the most coveted coaching vacancies next season (Denver, Memphis probably New York & Pelicans)
yeah ive been on the budwagon since the bucks dumped him, seemingly prematurely. but he has had a miserable year this year and right now i have vogel/jenkins a tier above malone and bud

[dn0774]

He's clearly lost the team, after losing the team in MIL... maybe Bud doesn't have the touch anymore.

On another note... the fact that Pop hasn't made a public appearance at all (I know he has been seen driving to the facility) indicates to me that he's maybe not in a state where he wants to be seen, which would certainly indicate he's nowhere near being able to return to coaching.

Two games left, hopefully this thing doesn't drag on much further than Sunday.

That is the most telling signal we've had regarding his prospects for actually making a full time return imo. Obviously the Spurs are going to speak in as little detail as possible on Pop's (and Wemby's) medical situation, which I can understand even though it is a bit frustrating as a fan. The fact that Pop hasn't been seen publicly, no presser, not at games etc likely means he is somewhat visibly compromised physically as is common with strokes.

We are now over 5 months removed from his medical event, expecting him to be media ready for training camp opening at the 11 month mark just seems unrealistic. Pop is a strong-willed son of a bitch, no doubt, but he doesn't exactly have youth on his side. I understand the team saying "he's earned that" when it comes to letting Pop decided what he wants to do, but that clearly reads to me as "please don't make this uncomfortable, just retire to the c-suite".

[Ice009]

I didn't think about that as one reason Pop might not be wanting to be seen publicly. Didn't the article when the players met up with Pop at the practice facility a month or so ago say you could still see affects of it? Darn, never even thought about that as a reason.

My top choices right now if Pop doesn't come back and chooses to step down are :
Mike Malone
Taylor Jenkins
Frank Vogel (I'm not sure if I should have Vogel higher, though, as now looking at the Suns, like Spursistan said, it seems he did a great job there).

Bud's dropped right off my list. I don't think he commands attention. I think he's a very good coach, but from the outside looking in, it seems he lacks in certain areas. I don't think he has full respect from all his players.

Mitch has also stepped up to finish the season. He's done a solid job.

One reason I pick Malone is because of how well he gets on with Pop. I think if Pop doesn't want to step down yet, they could maybe sell the both of them being sort of co-coaches, or Mike being 1 and Pop still being on the bench as a 1b. (Maybe this is a silly idea, but that is my thinking. Probably a bad idea that neither coach would go for)

[The Truth #6]

I don't have Malone at the top of my list but some sort of one year transition is way more preferable than Pop just coming back and wasting another year. Before the stroke. he already was in a different stage of his career, one that didn't prioritize winning.

[baseline bum]

He's clearly lost the team, after losing the team in MIL... maybe Bud doesn't have the touch anymore.

On another note... the fact that Pop hasn't made a public appearance at all (I know he has been seen driving to the facility) indicates to me that he's maybe not in a state where he wants to be seen, which would certainly indicate he's nowhere near being able to return to coaching.

Two games left, hopefully this thing doesn't drag on much further than Sunday.

Bend over, I still got the touch.

[baseline bum]

One reason I pick Malone is because of how well he gets on with Pop. I think if Pop doesn't want to step down yet, they could maybe sell the both of them being sort of co-coaches, or Mike being 1 and Pop still being on the bench as a 1b. (Maybe this is a silly idea, but that is my thinking. Probably a bad idea that neither coach would go for)

Agreed it's silly lol, no way a coach like Malone is coming without getting to be in control. Those kind of situations are reserved for the Mitch Johnsons of the world.

I think I'd take Jenkins as my first choice, as I'm amazed how he was able to make lemonade for so many years in Memphis when Ja would miss half the season. And then Vogel vs Malone for second is a really tough call, maybe a coin flip. Vogel coaches defense, won a title in LA, and got way more than he should have out of that Suns team while Malone is a great coach too with a lot of success in Denver with a ring to show off too.

[dn0774]

My issue with Malone is he was at least half the problem in Denver. He and Booth essentially had one job and it was be highly paid professionals who could at least maintain a working relationship and not an adversarial one. They both failed at that (and it got weird, spying accusations etc). Malone is a great basketball mind, but his temperament is one I don’t trust. Both deserved to be fired.

Jenkins and Vogel have the highest stock right now to me. Vogel looks like a miracle worker after the season Bud has had in PHX.

[ambchang]

If it’s actually a choice:
Jenkins
Snyder
Vogel
Malone
Mitch (with no Pop looking over his shoulder)
Bud

[spurraider21]

If it’s actually a choice:
Jenkins
Snyder
Vogel
Malone
Mitch (with no Pop looking over his shoulder)
Bud
im mostly in line with this. i think i might still prefer Bud to Mitch because i want some independence from Pop. i still dont think Snyder will be available but who knows

[scott]

See a lot of hoping for Snyder, but the Hawks went into the season with an expectation of 36.5 wins, so they've overachieved despite Jalen Johnson's injury. I don't see a way he gets fired... but I also didn't think Luka would get traded or MEM and DEN would fire their coaches right before the playoffs so who knows.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

imagine pop and corso start a sports + life podcast

[objective]

Pop not doing a public appearance, good plan if you don't want a public/media groundswell for him to step down

If he still can't sit in a chair and clearly answer questions without being in the gauntlet of a real game ... He must come off really badly.

If he's on camera, slurring, drooling, spitting on himself, OR taking unnatural pauses to answer questions ... Just end it

[Ice009]

As far as I'm concerned, Snyder isn't on the list as he's not available, so I'm not sure why people keep mentioning him (unless they expect him to get fired, which I don't think he will).

Out of curiosity, can a coach be hired by another team if the coach agrees to cancel his contract to go to another team, or is that now allowed if they're under contract?

[exstatic]

As far as I'm concerned, Snyder isn't on the list as he's not available, so I'm not sure why people keep mentioning him (unless they expect him to get fired, which I don't think he will).

Out of curiosity, can a coach be hired by another team if the coach agrees to cancel his contract to go to another team, or is that now allowed if they're under contract?

The contract protects the coach from not getting paid, but it also protects the team from him walking away. I think if both parties agree, they can terminate, but it doesn’t happen often. The last one I can remember was Bud/ATL. He had just killed it there, getting 60 wins out of a team his first year that had let their semi-star Josh Smith just walk in free agency, and no one even picked them to make the playoffs. That squad ran its course over a few years, and management/ownership decided on a rebuild. Bud wasn’t interested, so they mutually parted company.

[CGD]

If it’s actually a choice:
Jenkins
Snyder
Vogel
Malone
Mitch (with no Pop looking over his shoulder)
Bud

Synder is available? I think he’d be my target if so.

[ambchang]

Synder is available? I think he’d be my target if so.

Probably not. Just a wish on my part. I don’t mind will hardy either.

[LeBowen]

Snyder is 59, I wouldn't go for anyone who's older than early 50s.

[The Truth #6]

I think the cocaine has kept Snyder feeling fairly spry. He's a young 59.

[bigfan]

I still think Coach Bud would be the smartest move with Pop remaining in the front office. If Mitch got the job I wouldnt complain.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Thinking Bud's best position is the lead assistant on a good upcoming team. I think his days as a head coach are over for now.

[RC_Drunkford]

Agreed it's silly lol, no way a coach like Malone is coming without getting to be in control. Those kind of situations are reserved for the Mitch Johnsons of the world.

I think I'd take Jenkins as my first choice, as I'm amazed how he was able to make lemonade for so many years in Memphis when Ja would miss half the season. And then Vogel vs Malone for second is a really tough call, maybe a coin flip. Vogel coaches defense, won a title in LA, and got way more than he should have out of that Suns team while Malone is a great coach too with a lot of success in Denver with a ring to show off too.

I put a lot of stock in that part as well. The top coaches like Spoelstra and Lue were always able to do that as well as Pop when he was still in his prime.

[Gandalf]

The season is over. The longer they go without announcing Pop’s retirement, the fewer options we’ll have, and the more likely a 70+year-old-stroke victim is going to try to convince everyone he can coach an 82-game NBA season.

This joke of an organization is really going risk his life, Wemby’s third year, and a billion-dollar franchise on this? For what? Pop hasn’t even been a good coach in years.

Take the keys from Grandpa now you cowards. You’re not helping anyone—your weakness will actually hurt everyone, including Pop and his family.

[GAustex]

Remember when Spurs were relevant?

They are inconsequential now

Because of Pop

[BatManu20]

The season is over. The longer they go without announcing Pop’s retirement, the fewer options we’ll have, and the more likely a 70+year-old-stroke victim is going to try to convince everyone he can coach an 82-game NBA season.

This joke of an organization is really going risk his life, Wemby’s third year, and a billion-dollar franchise on this? For what? Pop hasn’t even been a good coach in years.

Take the keys from Grandpa now you cowards. You’re not helping anyone—your weakness will actually hurt everyone, including Pop and his family.

:pop: "We don't force guys out before they're ready. That's not who we are"

[Jordan Jackson]

Meh. If Pop is not back, Mitch will be the coach. They’ll just bolster the bench with better assistants (former head coaching experience).

My preference would be to bring Will Hardy back. Unfortunately not available. Need a young coach to grow with team. Not old retreads that keep getting fired and hired.

Bringing Ime back would have been nice too. But too late there as well.

[Mal]

Pop and Spurs need to make decision quick. Bud, Jenkins and Malone wont be available too long

[Chomag]

I just hope Pop and this franchise does the right thing and doesn't keep this team held in limbo with uncertainties especially with a few good available coaches to chose from.

Having this hanging over a young building team thats looking to find their course and identity on the road to become a competitive team is probably the worst time to have it .

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop and Spurs need to make decision quick. Bud, Jenkins and Malone wont be available too long

We all know the diddering old fool isn't going to give up the reigns on this franchise. He's going to try to come back, so we'll miss out on both coaches. Then in September they will announce he's still not ready to return to the bench and we'll get more Mitch the Bitch. There's no leadership for this franchise, Holt and Dell are going to defer to our geriatric stroke patient.

[ambchang]

I have got to say this year did it for me with regards to PATFO, used to be a hard believer, but looking back, ever since the nephew LMA incidents, Pop has just lost all fire in driving for an excellent organization. Nothing wrong with enjoying life and focusing that life is more about basketball, but ultimately this is your job, and there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected from people doing their jobs. I love my life more than my job too, but when I am at work I do my best to make sure the work product that comes out meets or exceeds expectations, not because I wanted a promotion or higher pay, but that is what I should do, it's called being professional.

The players have not improved at all year after year. I am sick of being excited about a new rookie every year, then see him flat line, or more often, progressively worse year after year. We saw it with Keldon, saw it with Vassell, saw it with Sochan, Wemby flatlined, and now we are all excited about Castle. Champaigne and Sochan were off to really good starts this year, and then these weird rotations and roles visibly just messed them up, and then they gave back whatever they gained right before our eyes. Wemby was playing like a man possessed for a short time before Christmas, then just crashed hard after that. Was it the DVT? I am not sure, but he wasn't lighting things on fire to start the season either. In fact, his sophomore year and rookie seasons were almost identical statistically in terms of per 36 and per 100 possession. He cut down on turnovers, shot way more 3s, had way less FTs, and that's it. He became a worse rebounder because he is out in the perimeter all day, he is more efficient because he nailed way more 3s at a higher rate than the year before, his offensive rebound rate crashed. I just refuse to admit that someone as talented as Wemby saw this minuscule level of improvement in a year. What gives?

I am very excited about Castle's rookie year, but I am not holding my breath to see him make a giant leap in year 2 or beyond. There is no direction from the organization, no development. Basically whatever player you are in your rookie is your peak, which is just disgusting.

I am sick of this. PATFO has got to go, there is no other way to put it. The development of young players is absolutely atrocious, and the offensive and defensive schemes are purely incomprehensible.

[baseline bum]

I have got to say this year did it for me with regards to PATFO, used to be a hard believer, but looking back, ever since the nephew LMA incidents, Pop has just lost all fire in driving for an excellent organization. Nothing wrong with enjoying life and focusing that life is more about basketball, but ultimately this is your job, and there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected from people doing their jobs. I love my life more than my job too, but when I am at work I do my best to make sure the work product that comes out meets or exceeds expectations, not because I wanted a promotion or higher pay, but that is what I should do, it's called being professional.

The players have not improved at all year after year. I am sick of being excited about a new rookie every year, then see him flat line, or more often, progressively worse year after year. We saw it with Keldon, saw it with Vassell, saw it with Sochan, Wemby flatlined, and now we are all excited about Castle. Champaigne and Sochan were off to really good starts this year, and then these weird rotations and roles visibly just messed them up, and then they gave back whatever they gained right before our eyes. Wemby was playing like a man possessed for a short time before Christmas, then just crashed hard after that. Was it the DVT? I am not sure, but he wasn't lighting things on fire to start the season either. In fact, his sophomore year and rookie seasons were almost identical statistically in terms of per 36 and per 100 possession. He cut down on turnovers, shot way more 3s, had way less FTs, and that's it. He became a worse rebounder because he is out in the perimeter all day, he is more efficient because he nailed way more 3s at a higher rate than the year before, his offensive rebound rate crashed. I just refuse to admit that someone as talented as Wemby saw this minuscule level of improvement in a year. What gives?

I am very excited about Castle's rookie year, but I am not holding my breath to see him make a giant leap in year 2 or beyond. There is no direction from the organization, no development. Basically whatever player you are in your rookie is your peak, which is just disgusting.

I am sick of this. PATFO has got to go, there is no other way to put it. The development of young players is absolutely atrocious, and the offensive and defensive schemes are purely incomprehensible.

I love Pop and am very thankful for everything he did for this franchise, but if I'm Holt Pop either steps down this week or I fire him and go out and get Jenkins.

[scott]

I have got to say this year did it for me with regards to PATFO, used to be a hard believer, but looking back, ever since the nephew LMA incidents, Pop has just lost all fire in driving for an excellent organization. Nothing wrong with enjoying life and focusing that life is more about basketball, but ultimately this is your job, and there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected from people doing their jobs. I love my life more than my job too, but when I am at work I do my best to make sure the work product that comes out meets or exceeds expectations, not because I wanted a promotion or higher pay, but that is what I should do, it's called being professional.

The players have not improved at all year after year. I am sick of being excited about a new rookie every year, then see him flat line, or more often, progressively worse year after year. We saw it with Keldon, saw it with Vassell, saw it with Sochan, Wemby flatlined, and now we are all excited about Castle. Champaigne and Sochan were off to really good starts this year, and then these weird rotations and roles visibly just messed them up, and then they gave back whatever they gained right before our eyes. Wemby was playing like a man possessed for a short time before Christmas, then just crashed hard after that. Was it the DVT? I am not sure, but he wasn't lighting things on fire to start the season either. In fact, his sophomore year and rookie seasons were almost identical statistically in terms of per 36 and per 100 possession. He cut down on turnovers, shot way more 3s, had way less FTs, and that's it. He became a worse rebounder because he is out in the perimeter all day, he is more efficient because he nailed way more 3s at a higher rate than the year before, his offensive rebound rate crashed. I just refuse to admit that someone as talented as Wemby saw this minuscule level of improvement in a year. What gives?

I am very excited about Castle's rookie year, but I am not holding my breath to see him make a giant leap in year 2 or beyond. There is no direction from the organization, no development. Basically whatever player you are in your rookie is your peak, which is just disgusting.

I am sick of this. PATFO has got to go, there is no other way to put it. The development of young players is absolutely atrocious, and the offensive and defensive schemes are purely incomprehensible.

Welcome to the Former Sniffers Club. It's nice in here, come on it... I've saved you a seat.

[LeBowen]

Welcome to the Former Sniffers Club. It's nice in here, come on it... I've saved you a seat.

Tbh, I think it's just a "Pop needs to retire" club right now instead of an anti-PATFO club.
Wright has proven his worth with good deals both as a seller and a buyer, he obviously doesn't have the power to get rid of Pop.
Coaching staff also goes back to Pop, can't fire or hire anyone without his approval.

I just hate it when all-time greats can't accept when it's enough and overstay their welcome. Pop doesn't deserve to go out as a loser, but if we miss out on Jenkins it's going to be fully on him.
Holt can fire him, but it would be a bad look.
Pop either needs to step down or we need the doctors to tell him he can't coach anymore.

[djohn2oo8]

Can’t believe he hasn’t stepped down yet

[baseline bum]

Can’t believe he hasn’t stepped down yet

He can't even wipe his own ass yet

[ginobilized]

It would be poetic justice if Pop fired himself, just as he hired himself.

[benefactor]

Welcome back, Coach Bud

[Sugus]

Tbh, I think it's just a "Pop needs to retire" club right now instead of an anti-PATFO club.
Wright has proven his worth with good deals both as a seller and a buyer, he obviously doesn't have the power to get rid of Pop.
Coaching staff also goes back to Pop, can't fire or hire anyone without his approval.

I just hate it when all-time greats can't accept when it's enough and overstay their welcome. Pop doesn't deserve to go out as a loser, but if we miss out on Jenkins it's going to be fully on him.
Holt can fire him, but it would be a bad look.
Pop either needs to step down or we need the doctors to tell him he can't coach anymore.

Honestly the astronauts meme of "always has been" fits really well here.

Besides some very specific moves/non-moves that were blown out of proportion by Spurstalk (Scola......), most fans' gripe with the Spurs has always mostly been related to Pop specifically, and the "FO" more insofar as they allow Pop such freedom/authority. From pulling Timmy out for that rebound, to his "leftist" comments in the media, to his "life is more important than basketball" mantra and trying to influence players.... It's always been more "P" than "FO" in the "PATFO" moniker.

As you say, Wright is well-regarded by most if not all Spurs fans, and RC has also always had a good rep as a GM. And the Spurs' success historically speaks for itself of course.

I'd go as far as saying that I've come to wonder who people think is behind "FO" whenever they criticize PATFO. Like Buford is one name/face that everyone knows, but who's besides that? A front office is not one or two guys. You seldom hear anything about that despite the constant (not so much now) bashing of "PATFO" here.

[RC_Drunkford]

I said years ago that Pop is basically what post-achilles Kobe was for the Lakers

[Sugus]

And by the way, I'll join in on the "insane that this hasn't been taken care of yet" crowd.

Who the fuck is actually hoping for Pop to return to the sidelines again in the Spurs FO? The legitimate risk of him having another stroke, or neurological incident, during a live fucking NBA game possibly on National TV, in the year 2025 with cameras absolutely everywhere........

Like it's a disservice to even Pop himself; I would never want a video or event to surface of him "breaking down" so to speak. And it's completely, utterly unpredictable. I said it two months ago - no sane doctor should ever clear a man of Pop's age and history for the gruesome job of being an NBA coach.

It's really looking like the classic "nobody has the heart to put down the family pet" situation here. Hopefully this influx of coaches on the market is the "hint" that everyone's been expecting or hoping for.

[scott]

Well, the acronym is PATFO and not TFOAP for a reason. And indeed, the FO part of the equation has had moving parts over the one years... the P has always been the constant and it comes first.

It's like if you heard someone talking about how they think Huey Lewis and the News sucks... it's probably not because of Bill Gibson's drumming (and yes, I had to look that up).

[SpurPadre]

Do we get Bud back for corporate knowledge now and ready to take the reigns from Pop whenever?

[bigfan]

Coach Bud would be my choice but they didnt ask me. If they decide to keep Mitch that would be ok I guess. I think Pop is the GOAT but he has to understand Father Time waits for nobody. Somebody put the call in to Nancy Pelosi.

[poopbox]

Tbh, I think it's just a "Pop needs to retire" club right now instead of an anti-PATFO club.
Wright has proven his worth with good deals both as a seller and a buyer, he obviously doesn't have the power to get rid of Pop.
Coaching staff also goes back to Pop, can't fire or hire anyone without his approval.

I just hate it when all-time greats can't accept when it's enough and overstay their welcome. Pop doesn't deserve to go out as a loser, but if we miss out on Jenkins it's going to be fully on him.
Holt can fire him, but it would be a bad look.
Pop either needs to step down or we need the doctors to tell him he can't coach anymore.


Meh. I'm still out on Wright cause he hasn't done anything great except for the easy things and things that fell in his lap.

Tore the team down for 1st round picks. Easiest thing to do when you don't care about winning.

Drafted Victor. Again a no brainer decision. And all Wright did is what 10 other GM's did to try and get Victor, tank, and he was just the one lucky enough to win it.

Fox trade. Fox and Rich Paul told teams that the Spurs were his preferred team and that even if they traded for him and got his bird rights he would still walk to SA after next season. This allowed Wright to essential give the Kings nothing, knowing other teams were not going to put in strong offers for Fox. Can't give him credit for this one either since the player and the players agent made it as easy as possible to trade for him.

This is the first off season where Wright isn't playing with the cards in his favor. He has Fox and Wemby now, and possibly the ROY on a path to stardom, so no excuse for not making the playoffs next year. He is going to have to get some real veteran talent on this team now since it has been proven time and time again that the Keldon's, Devin's, and Sochan's of the world are not winning players. Let's see what he does now when all the stars don't perfectly align for him.

[exstatic]

Meh. I'm still out on Wright cause he hasn't done anything great except for the easy things and things that fell in his lap.

Tore the team down for 1st round picks. Easiest thing to do when you don't care about winning.

Drafted Victor. Again a no brainer decision. And all Wright did is what 10 other GM's did to try and get Victor, tank, and he was just the one lucky enough to win it.

Fox trade. Fox and Rich Paul told teams that the Spurs were his preferred team and that even if they traded for him and got his bird rights he would still walk to SA after next season. This allowed Wright to essential give the Kings nothing, knowing other teams were not going to put in strong offers for Fox. Can't give him credit for this one either since the player and the players agent made it as easy as possible to trade for him.

This is the first off season where Wright isn't playing with the cards in his favor. He has Fox and Wemby now, and possibly the ROY on a path to stardom, so no excuse for not making the playoffs next year. He is going to have to get some real veteran talent on this team now since it has been proven time and time again that the Keldon's, Devin's, and Sochan's of the world are not winning players. Let's see what he does now when all the stars don't perfectly align for him.

He traded Kawhi under duress, and got Poeltl and DeRozan in return, as well as the Keldon pick. Fast forward, and het gets POSITIVE ASSETS in a sign and trade of DeRozan to Chicago, a FRP, and Thad Young, who he later flips for another FRP that became Wesley. Fast forward again, and he flips Poeltl BACK to Toronto for a FRP that coveys last year at #8, and is traded to Minny for an unprotected 20131 FRP.

He then trades some spare parts, the Chicago pick and the unprotected Minny pick for De’Aaron Fox. Over a period from 2018 to 2025, he slow traded a broken Kawhi Leonard for De’Aaron Fox. That’s someone with game.

This is also not the first summer he isn’t playing with the cards in his favor. That pretty much describes EVERY summer, post Kawhi, except the last two, drafting Wemby and Castle.

[Obstructed_View]

Wow, Popovich sacrifices the good of the team for his ego? This is my shocked face: :rolleyes

[Arcadian]

But who will replace Bill Schoening though?

[scott]

He traded Kawhi under duress, and got Poeltl and DeRozan in return, as well as the Keldon pick. Fast forward, and het gets POSITIVE ASSETS in a sign and trade of DeRozan to Chicago, a FRP, and Thad Young, who he later flips for another FRP that became Wesley. Fast forward again, and he flips Poeltl BACK to Toronto for a FRP that coveys last year at #8, and is traded to Minny for an unprotected 20131 FRP.

He then trades some spare parts, the Chicago pick and the unprotected Minny pick for De’Aaron Fox. Over a period from 2018 to 2025, he slow traded a broken Kawhi Leonard for De’Aaron Fox. That’s someone with game.

This is also not the first summer he isn’t playing with the cards in his favor. That pretty much describes EVERY summer, post Kawhi, except the last two, drafting Wemby and Castle.

Worth noting that RC was GM at the time of the Kawhi trade, and the drafting of Keldon (and Luka!). Wright became GM in July of 2019. He may or may not have been the architect behind those moves, I have no clue... just clarifying when the Wright era officially began.

[exstatic]

Worth noting that RC was GM at the time of the Kawhi trade, and the drafting of Keldon (and Luka!). Wright became GM in July of 2019. He may or may not have been the architect behind those moves, I have no clue... just clarifying when the Wright era officially began.

Supposedly, the Kawhi trade was his final exam as asst. GM. He did the whole deal. Of course, this was speculation and rumors. Spurs never actually announce stuff like that.

[ambchang]

Sorry guys, got carried away. Didn’t mean to bash pop as the love and appreciation for what he did will always be there. Seeing the spurs being a franchise that was just good enough in the regular season to never even coming close to ringing in the 80s and 90s to this franchise of excellence for 20 years is something I will always be grateful as a fan. I still love pop for what he did but the time has passed.

Pop has to see that he is ruining the careers of some young promising players for his own ego, which is opposite to what he has always preached. Stay home, play with your grandkids, fhe young players still have a bright future ahead of them.

Keldon always play hard, skills may not be there but the heart is and he has a role in the league. Sochan may never be able to score but he does play hard on defence and plays whatever role you throw him at. Vassell can be a scorer on a bad team, champaigne expanded his game this year, defends well, shoots decent, can put the ball on the ball somewhat, can pass decently now. Mamu can shoot and has an insane motor. Wesley can defend and his passing is showing promise, I believe he can be a good 3rd or even 2nd string PG. Malaki …. Ummm, he has nice shoes ….. these kids still have a future, pop has to realize he is standing in the way and can jeopardize these kids futures. Let it go.

[John B]

I would’ve liked for Pop to ride down the sunset with another ring, after righting what Kawhi debacle did. But I agree that the stroke could be his body telling him to take it easy and just enjoy life with his grandkids. Nobody can take away what he’s done for the city of San Antonio and the game of basketball with his coaching tree continues to inspire other organizations how it should be done. I would like any of his coaching tree to take over. I would’ve love for Mitch to get a chance. But his on-game X’s and O’s don’t impress me. I guess after Pop it would be difficult to find another shoe that fits. Ime was my first choice, but I doubt he’s leaving after resurrecting that franchise from mediocrity. Becky would be great but would she gets the full attention of these guys? Will Hardy? Bud seemed to be the right successor way back then, but not getting KD, Booker and Beal to the playoffs seems underwhelming. Malone seems a young Pop, decisive and tough. He’s not from the tree but has connections and he looks up to Pop. With a ring to boost? I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s him.

[Ice009]

Mike Malone was at the top of my list, but if the stories I've read on one of these past few pages are true on what he was doing in Denver, I don't really want him anymore. Sabotaging young players he didn't like, screwing with the shooting coaching thinking he's a spy from Calvin Booth, nah, that's just going way too far.

[cd98]

If Pop can’t let go, let him be an assistant coach. But you can’t have a head coach whose poor health could cause another stroke and derail a season.

[poopbox]

He traded Kawhi under duress, and got Poeltl and DeRozan in return, as well as the Keldon pick. Fast forward, and het gets POSITIVE ASSETS in a sign and trade of DeRozan to Chicago, a FRP, and Thad Young, who he later flips for another FRP that became Wesley. Fast forward again, and he flips Poeltl BACK to Toronto for a FRP that coveys last year at #8, and is traded to Minny for an unprotected 20131 FRP.

He then trades some spare parts, the Chicago pick and the unprotected Minny pick for De’Aaron Fox. Over a period from 2018 to 2025, he slow traded a broken Kawhi Leonard for De’Aaron Fox. That’s someone with game.

This is also not the first summer he isn’t playing with the cards in his favor. That pretty much describes EVERY summer, post Kawhi, except the last two, drafting Wemby and Castle.

Trading Kawhi under duress was stupid. Everyone knows if you just hang on to a star player trying to force his way out you will eventually get a motherload of picks (see the Anthony Davis trade or even the Clippers trade where Kawhi forced them to trade their entire future for Paul George). This is an example of Wright being a bad GM because all he had to do was wait and we could have done way better than Derozan, Stone Hands, and a first round pick.

Getting positive assets for Derozan means nothing to me because Derozan was only on the team because of the bad Kawhi trade Wright made. You don't get any credit for digging yourself out of your own hole. And I don't give any GM credit for getting 1st round picks when they are tanking, like we were / still are, because all it takes is for you to not care about winning games. That's not a skill, that's a mindset.

Fox wanted to leave the team he was on, wanted to come to San Antonio, said so out of his own mouth in public, and had his agent telling teams he would go to San Antonio even if they traded for him to get his bird rights. Fox traded himself to San Antonio, Brian Wright was just pushing papers.

Take away the bottom out for 1st round picks and Fox forcing himself to the Spurs Brian Wright has done what exactly? Signed Doug McBuckets, how did they work out? Not good we were awful, Doug was a sieve on defense, and he been riding benches every since he left SA. Signed Zach Collins, how did that work out? He was arguably the worst back up big in basketball and we were one of the 5 worst teams in basketball while he was here. Then stupidly gave him an extension after his body didn't fall apart after 30 games his first year. We traded for Cedi Osman, how did that work out? He was terrible and isn't even in the league anymore. Signed Chris Paul, how did that work out? Seems ok on the surface but pretty funny that of all the teams Chris Paul turned around and got to the playoffs he couldn't do it for the team that Brian Wright assembled because it was to bad.

So there is no more bottoming out for picks because the Spurs are in win now mode after the Fox trade. Their are probably not going to be anymore players who try and force their way to SA so you not going to be able to tell a team "take it or leave it he coming here in at most a year anyway" like you could do with the Kings this season. Their won't be anymore bottom of the roster toss in guys like Julian making 3 million a year cause the spurs had to hit the salary floor. Now Brian has to go compete for good players with other teams who are competing for good players, and if he trades off one of our young players he HAS to get a good player back since the team is mostly built to at least start making the playoffs next season. I'm yet to be convinced he can do that.

[baseline bum]

If Pop can’t let go, let him be an assistant coach. But you can’t have a head coach whose poor health could cause another stroke and derail a season.

Nah that would undermine the authority of whichever coach they hire. Can't have a legend like Pop looking over your shoulder the entire time.

[Bruno]

With Jenkins, Malone and Bud, there are 3 quality proven coaches available. Spurs should just sign one of them.

Spurs shouldn't gamble on a coach with no nba head coach experience. They need to start being good as soon as next season with the Fox trade and they don't need to add another question mark to their roster with a rookie coach.

[spurraider21]

With Jenkins, Malone and Bud, there are 3 quality proven coaches available. Spurs should just sign one of them.

Spurs shouldn't gamble on a coach with no nba head coach experience. They need to start being good as soon as next season with the Fox trade and they don't need to add another question mark to their roster with a rookie coach.
Add Vogel to the list

[scott]

In any other market, there would be stories and op-eds about how Pop should retire and pass the torch. But local Spurs media has spend decades paying fealty to earn access. Of course that access is never used to do their jobs (which is to report)... they like to hide what they know locked away just for them. They are special chosen insiders, us meager peon class is not worthy of knowing what they know. These guys don't want to lose that, so expect more stories to puff up what SS&E wants us believe: Pop has earned the right to be a drooling vegetable on the sidelines if that's what he wants, and Mitch has actually done a wonderful job and we should be grateful if he's our next coach.

With all that said... I'll always be a Pop fan. He's the GOAT. I hope he doesn't taint his legacy by overstaying his welcome and sabotaging the Wemby era.

[ginobilized]

In any other market, there would be stories and op-eds about how Pop should retire and pass the torch. But local Spurs media has spend decades paying fealty to earn access. Of course that access is never used to do their jobs (which is to report)... they like to hide what they know locked away just for them. They are special chosen insiders, us meager peon class is not worthy of knowing what they know. These guys don't want to lose that, so expect more stories to puff up what SS&E wants us believe: Pop has earned the right to be a drooling vegetable on the sidelines if that's what he wants, and Mitch has actually done a wonderful job and we should be grateful if he's our next coach.

With all that said... I'll always be a Pop fan. He's the GOAT. I hope he doesn't taint his legacy by overstaying his welcome and sabotaging the Wemby era.

Even the egomaniacal Red Auerbach had a graceful, and highly successful, transition to the front office. C'mon Pop!

[spurraider21]

In any other market, there would be stories and op-eds about how Pop should retire and pass the torch. But local Spurs media has spend decades paying fealty to earn access. Of course that access is never used to do their jobs (which is to report)... they like to hide what they know locked away just for them. They are special chosen insiders, us meager peon class is not worthy of knowing what they know. These guys don't want to lose that, so expect more stories to puff up what SS&E wants us believe: Pop has earned the right to be a drooling vegetable on the sidelines if that's what he wants, and Mitch has actually done a wonderful job and we should be grateful if he's our next coach.

With all that said... I'll always be a Pop fan. He's the GOAT. I hope he doesn't taint his legacy by overstaying his welcome and sabotaging the Wemby era.
what is the value in journalists getting info if they cant use it professionally to generate clicks/eyeballs? what profit is there for them?

[scott]

what is the value in journalists getting info if they cant use it professionally to generate clicks/eyeballs? what profit is there for them?

In the case of Spurs media... I think it just makes them feel special. I have some friends who have moved away from the San Antonio market who tell me that SS&E is the absolute worst to deal with, and they treat the local media like garbage (maybe things have changed in the last 5-8 years since most of them have left). There may be some battered spouse syndrome going on... treat the media like garbage long enough they'll eventually come to appreciate the few crumbs you give them.

But it's absurd the amount of times I've seen local Spurs writers allude, or just flat out say, that they have some inside info but they aren't allowed to share it... BUT OH IF YOU KNEW WHAT THEY DID that you'd have a different opinion about [whatever]. Maybe it's all just bluster on their part?

[spurraider21]

In the case of Spurs media... I think it just makes them feel special. I have some friends who have moved away from the San Antonio market who tell me that SS&E is the absolute worst to deal with, and they treat the local media like garbage (maybe things have changed in the last 5-8 years since most of them have left). There may be some battered spouse syndrome going on... treat the media like garbage long enough they'll eventually come to appreciate the few crumbs you give them.

But it's absurd the amount of times I've seen local Spurs writers allude, or just flat out say, that they have some inside info but they aren't allowed to share it... BUT OH IF YOU KNEW WHAT THEY DID that you'd have a different opinion about [whatever]. Maybe it's all just bluster on their part?
timvp has made similar comments about the kawhi situation

i think its a way to establish trust. if a source tells them something but says "i dont want this going public" and then the journalist tweets the full scoop 30 seconds later, that person will never get an interview or access every again. its basic journalism to discuss things off the record.

[LeBowen]

In the case of Spurs media... I think it just makes them feel special. I have some friends who have moved away from the San Antonio market who tell me that SS&E is the absolute worst to deal with, and they treat the local media like garbage (maybe things have changed in the last 5-8 years since most of them have left). There may be some battered spouse syndrome going on... treat the media like garbage long enough they'll eventually come to appreciate the few crumbs you give them.

But it's absurd the amount of times I've seen local Spurs writers allude, or just flat out say, that they have some inside info but they aren't allowed to share it... BUT OH IF YOU KNEW WHAT THEY DID that you'd have a different opinion about [whatever]. Maybe it's all just bluster on their part?

My issue isn't the lack of inside information, I'm happy with the way things are.
My issue is that there's zero criticism whatsoever. Basically North Korea if we're talking Spurs reporters.
I'm not even talking about unpleasant questions being asked during press conferences and whatnot, but there are no good, in-depth articles about any of the mistakes that have been made ever since nephew ruined everything.

It deluded the entirety of casual fanbase into being the blindest homers in all of sports and it's so exhausting. If not for this place, I'd honestly have no idea where to talk about the actual state of things in this franchise, tbh.
Feels like every other relevant fanbase has at least some fans who are objective about things that aren't going well, but if we're talking Spurs, I don't think I've seen anyone post anything negative about PATFO anywhere.

[scott]

timvp has made similar comments about the kawhi situation

i think its a way to establish trust. if a source tells them something but says "i dont want this going public" and then the journalist tweets the full scoop 30 seconds later, that person will never get an interview or access every again. its basic journalism to discuss things off the record.

Of course. In my professional career I maintain lots of journalist relationships and we have OTR conversations all the time. But I also don't expect us to have an OTR conversation and then have them go flaunt the fact that they have info they can't share. I think there are multiple shades of grey, with "There is more behind the scenes than I can share with the Kawhi situation" at the more benign end of the spectrum to "if you guys knew what I was just told, you'd think differently" being on the most absurd, worthless end.

But at some point, you'd hope all this accumulated trust would result in some tangible insights or "scoops" - but local Spurs media never delivers that. I was following the Sacramento side of things pretty closely when the Fox rumors first popped up, and I'll say that the general vibe of their orbit is significantly more closely aligned with what I would consider to be the proper relationship between media and subject. SS&E and the inner circle of journalists are too close, IMO, and the result is a fanbase who only gets what the team spoon feeds them.

[exstatic]

My issue isn't the lack of inside information, I'm happy with the way things are.
My issue is that there's zero criticism whatsoever. Basically North Korea if we're talking Spurs reporters.
I'm not even talking about unpleasant questions being asked during press conferences and whatnot, but there are no good, in-depth articles about any of the mistakes that have been made ever since nephew ruined everything.

It deluded the entirety of casual fanbase into being the blindest homers in all of sports and it's so exhausting. If not for this place, I'd honestly have no idea where to talk about the actual state of things in this franchise, tbh.
Feels like every other relevant fanbase has at least some fans who are objective about things that aren't going well, but if we're talking Spurs, I don't think I've seen anyone post anything negative about PATFO anywhere.

You’re fucking joking, right? This place is nothing but PATFO bashing.

[scott]

My issue isn't the lack of inside information, I'm happy with the way things are.
My issue is that there's zero criticism whatsoever. Basically North Korea if we're talking Spurs reporters.
I'm not even talking about unpleasant questions being asked during press conferences and whatnot, but there are no good, in-depth articles about any of the mistakes that have been made ever since nephew ruined everything.

It deluded the entirety of casual fanbase into being the blindest homers in all of sports and it's so exhausting. If not for this place, I'd honestly have no idea where to talk about the actual state of things in this franchise, tbh.
Feels like every other relevant fanbase has at least some fans who are objective about things that aren't going well, but if we're talking Spurs, I don't think I've seen anyone post anything negative about PATFO anywhere.

Yes, they go hand in hand. These guys are afraid if they criticize the Spurs they'll lose their access. It's not at all too dissimilar of what is happening in DC these days. Ironic that PATFO acts quite similarly to the administration they despise at times (and PATFO pioneered it).

You're spot on with this, and I agree that is the bigger issue. There is zero accountability for this franchise. We could miss the playoffs for another decade without any criticism from the local media brigade so long as they kept their access.

[LeBowen]

You’re fucking joking, right? This place is nothing but PATFO bashing.

My bad, I was referring to anywhere else other than this forum.

[scott]

You’re fucking joking, right? This place is nothing but PATFO bashing.

This place (which has it's fair share of Sniffers... that term was invented to describe fellow members of ST, not people outside of it) is not indicative of the fanbase at large. Casual Spurs Fan is extremely loyal, which is great, but they're also delusional. Whether or not they are any more of less delusional than other fanbases... I don't know. Spending time around Kings fans though, they are definitely a lot more realistic... but in a way that I'm not envious of. They are hyper aware of their failings... which is not a great place to be in either (because it means you fail all the damn time)

[exstatic]

My bad, I was referring to anywhere else other than this forum.

Gotcha.

[RC_Drunkford]

In any other market, there would be stories and op-eds about how Pop should retire and pass the torch. But local Spurs media has spend decades paying fealty to earn access. Of course that access is never used to do their jobs (which is to report)... they like to hide what they know locked away just for them. They are special chosen insiders, us meager peon class is not worthy of knowing what they know. These guys don't want to lose that, so expect more stories to puff up what SS&E wants us believe: Pop has earned the right to be a drooling vegetable on the sidelines if that's what he wants, and Mitch has actually done a wonderful job and we should be grateful if he's our next coach.

With all that said... I'll always be a Pop fan. He's the GOAT. I hope he doesn't taint his legacy by overstaying his welcome and sabotaging the Wemby era.

it was very refreshing to listen to the Kings reporters before and after the Fox trade. They were destroying their FO publicly and even get some FO people on the show to interview them directly. Spurs beat writers would never even try that, cause they would lose their jobs :lol


You’re fucking joking, right? This place is nothing but PATFO bashing.

and rightfully so, for how bad they have been for the past 7 years

[Chillen]

Suns are f***ing stupid for firing Budenholzer. Spurs need to move fast on him.

[scott]

it was very refreshing to listen to the Kings reporters before and after the Fox trade. They were destroying their FO publicly and even get some FO people on the show to interview them directly. Spurs beat writers would never even try that, cause they would lose their jobs :lol



and rightfully so, for how bad they have been for the past 7 years


When is the last time any one from the Spurs FO or Coaching staff did any kind of interview other than standard pre- and post-game media availability?

Nico Harrison is rightfully getting destroyed today for having a no cameras/phones/recording devices session with selected members of the Mavs media today... but that still more than Brian Wright has done in the last year.

[dn0774]

it was very refreshing to listen to the Kings reporters before and after the Fox trade. They were destroying their FO publicly and even get some FO people on the show to interview them directly. Spurs beat writers would never even try that, cause they would lose their jobs :lol


Interesting that both Sac and SA are 1 team towns (professional teams) yet their media relations/dynamics are so different. The Spurs org really has trained SA journalists to be subservient peons begging for crumbs of access.

The press gathered for the Wemby interview on Sunday were apparently "instructed" not to ask him anything medical related even though everything relevant to Wemby right now is at least tangentially medical related. Any journalist with their balls still intact would've told them to F off with that request. Ask whatever questions you want and if Wemby chooses not to answer then so be it. I'm okay with Wemby keeping details amongst himself and his medical team but jesus, let the reporters report. Reminds me of the UFC and their carefully curated press gatherings where nobody can ask real questions and if you do enjoy not getting a press credential for the next event.

I am optimistic about the roster direction right now (coaching situation has me very concerned) but lets call a spade a spade: this team hasn't sniffed a postseason appearance in 6 seasons and yet there is seemingly zero internal pressure from ownership on RC/Wright/Pop to right the ship. External pressure from media/journalists has been effectively neutered and 98% of the fan base still thinks Vassell and Sochan are "future all-stars, bro".

[spurraider21]

Of course. In my professional career I maintain lots of journalist relationships and we have OTR conversations all the time. But I also don't expect us to have an OTR conversation and then have them go flaunt the fact that they have info they can't share. I think there are multiple shades of grey, with "There is more behind the scenes than I can share with the Kawhi situation" at the more benign end of the spectrum to "if you guys knew what I was just told, you'd think differently" being on the most absurd, worthless end.

But at some point, you'd hope all this accumulated trust would result in some tangible insights or "scoops" - but local Spurs media never delivers that. I was following the Sacramento side of things pretty closely when the Fox rumors first popped up, and I'll say that the general vibe of their orbit is significantly more closely aligned with what I would consider to be the proper relationship between media and subject. SS&E and the inner circle of journalists are too close, IMO, and the result is a fanbase who only gets what the team spoon feeds them.
yep. all the major developments on that front came from their folks, not ours

[John B]

My issue isn't the lack of inside information, I'm happy with the way things are.
My issue is that there's zero criticism whatsoever. Basically North Korea if we're talking Spurs reporters.
I'm not even talking about unpleasant questions being asked during press conferences and whatnot, but there are no good, in-depth articles about any of the mistakes that have been made ever since nephew ruined everything.

It deluded the entirety of casual fanbase into being the blindest homers in all of sports and it's so exhausting. If not for this place, I'd honestly have no idea where to talk about the actual state of things in this franchise, tbh.
Feels like every other relevant fanbase has at least some fans who are objective about things that aren't going well, but if we're talking Spurs, I don't think I've seen anyone post anything negative about PATFO anywhere.

22 years of continued excellence would get you that. And I’m guilty of being a “sniffer”, if believing in a system that have worked so long, no drama just excellence year after year. It’s what we call “Spurs Culture.” Not many franchise has that. The last few years haven’t been great, but fans who know, the system that brought championships and excellence would get us out of this bad situation, right? So yeah, I criticize about the Spurs not signing Scola, or not drafting Sengun, Jalen, wasted a high draft pick on Primo?? I have my fair share of criticisms, but for the most part, PATFO made the right calls, maybe not the popular calls. But in the end, they make sense. It’s never too hot, never too cold, just right. And there’s stability and longevity on those kind of calls, don’t-rock-the-boat-or-it-might-tip attitude.