SIAP: Spurs expected to land Naz Reid if he opts out of player option

[SpursBig3s]

https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1894168904307449882?s=46

[spurraider21]

we'd have to move keldon or vassell to make room. he's not opting out just to get MLE money

i think the wolves would explore some S&T where they receive a big. they moved towns for randle, and randle is probably out himself. losing reid for nothing would be pretty devastating. rudy will be 33 by the time next season starts as well

[exstatic]

we'd have to move keldon or vassell to make room. he's not opting out just to get MLE money

i think the wolves would explore some S&T where they receive a big. they moved towns for randle, and randle is probably out himself. losing reid for nothing would be pretty devastating. rudy will be 33 by the time next season starts as well

They need to shed salary,being a second apron team. If they were OKwith payroll, they’d just keep Naz. The only Hail Mary possible would be if Randle stupidly opted out.

[Joseph Kony]

would be hilarious if they traded KAT just to try and save money so they could afford Reid only for him to leave in free agency :lol

[scott]

When's the last time the Spurs landed any of these "Spurs are the favorite to land..." scenarios? Does anyone actually bet on these or are they all just hypothetical odds?

I imagine the Wolves have planned for this and are going to resign him, but a lot rides on Randle opting in/out. I imagine he opts in which is going to put MIN into a tougher spot, but I think the real impact is going to be their inability to hang on to NAW, because I doubt they want to pay the repeater tax.

If Randle for some reason opts out, then MIN is probably in the clear.

[ChumpDumper]

Reid on the Spurs would be stupidly ideal. Won't get my hopes up.

[scott]

They need to shed salary,being a second apron team. If they were OKwith payroll, they’d just keep Naz. The only Hail Mary possible would be if Randle stupidly opted out.

Second Apron should not be a problem if they rescind NAW and sign Naz to a 4/100. Their existing roster, with all of the cap holds, puts them at $15MM under the 2nd Apron next year as it currently stands.

[exstatic]

Second Apron should not be a problem if they rescind NAW and sign Naz to a 4/100. Their existing roster, with all of the cap holds, puts them at $15MM under the 2nd Apron next year as it currently stands.

So, next year, they’d be fine. What about years 2-4?

[scott]

So, next year, they’d be fine. What about years 2-4?

Randle rolls off and they'll still be "fine" in terms of the ability to have the players they currently have (without any regard to whether that's a good team or not).

I will say, I haven't spent enough time with their cap sheet and I may be looking at it wrong... will dive in more and see how much flexibility they actually have.

[spurraider21]

When's the last time the Spurs landed any of these "Spurs are the favorite to land..." scenarios? Does anyone actually bet on these or are they all just hypothetical odds?

I imagine the Wolves have planned for this and are going to resign him, but a lot rides on Randle opting in/out. I imagine he opts in which is going to put MIN into a tougher spot, but I think the real impact is going to be their inability to hang on to NAW, because I doubt they want to pay the repeater tax.

If Randle for some reason opts out, then MIN is probably in the clear.
de'aaron fox

wasnt there a decent amount of CP3 smoke as well?

[scott]

So, next year, they’d be fine. What about years 2-4?

Here's what I calculate for MIN if Randle opts in, they give Naz a 4/100 (flat $25MM?/yr), rescind all other FAs, bring back all their cheap end-of-bench RFAs, don't add any draft picks (assumptions are for simplicity). All figures in millions



Year
25-26
26-27
27-28
28-29


Total Payroll
205.1
161.7
157.5
111.1


Tax Line
190.1
206.6
227.3
250


2nd Apron
207.8
228.6
251.4
276.6


2nd Apron Space
2.7
66.9
93.9
165.5


Players Under Contract
15
8
6
3

[scott]

de'aaron fox

wasnt there a decent amount of CP3 smoke as well?

I meant to write "aside from Fox", but yes I do recall CP3 also having "betting" odds favoring the Spurs. Though it seems like we're always the favorite to land any player, and I doubt there is much actual betting that happens with these odds

[adonis827]

When's the last time the Spurs landed any of these "Spurs are the favorite to land..." scenarios? Does anyone actually bet on these or are they all just hypothetical odds?



2023? Bassey Mamu Champagnie
2021 Zach Collins
2019 DeMarre Carroll
2017 Pau Gasol
2015 Aldridge

You didn't say all star though

[baseline bum]

When's the last time the Spurs landed any of these "Spurs are the favorite to land..." scenarios?

Fox?

[baseline bum]

Wish Evin would fucking do something to up his trade value

[scott]

2023? Bassey Mamu Champagnie
2021 Zach Collins
2019 DeMarre Carroll
2017 Pau Gasol
2015 Aldridge

You didn't say all star though

bruh, you know damn well there was no "Spurs are the favorites to land Sandro Mamukalashvili" tweets

[onechance87]

Man i hope we dont trade one of these draft picks to have salary to have room to sign him.This team needs to keep
adding young talent.Cause this young roster aint it.

[kht]

What type of character guy is Naz?

[timtonymanu]

Don’t get my hopes up.

[baseline bum]

Man i hope we dont trade one of these draft picks to have salary to have room to sign him.This team needs to keep
adding young talent.Cause this young roster aint it.

Anyone who takes Kelon gets Evin thrown in free

[z0sa]

Bye Devin

[timtonymanu]

What type of character guy is Naz?

We need talent. I’m tired of high character guys who don’t belong on an nba court.

[Spurminator]

I would give my left nut for this.

[SpursBills]

Wolves are going to do everything they can do keep Naz, I think the odds of the spurs getting him are very low. However, they'd be capped out by resigning Naz so in that scenario Nickeil Alexander-Walker may be a very nice target to snipe

[BatManu20]

Pipe dream tbh. Would be perfect next to Wemby tho.

[gilmor2002]

What type of character guy is Naz?

From what I observed last year playoff.. he is good.

[mystargtr34]

What do we think the Spurs would be willing to offer Naz?

4/$120M?

4/$140M?

[100%duncan]

No way they traded KAT to just let Naz go :lol But they traded KAT for Randle which then "forced" them to bench Naz so what do I know :lol

[benefactor]

Let's just hope that Fox has started the building trend and Naz follows suit.

[benefactor]

Can you imagine Fox/Castle/Flagg/Naz/Wemby? My dick is pushing hard against my jeans.

[heyheymymy]

Getting Fox was so crucial bc it starts to make Spurs a destination. If I'm Naz, knowing Fox is in SA now def factors in to my decision if it's ever to a point where my discretion comes into play.

Not sure if the circumstances will play out for us but MIN has been bungling shit lately so maybe we catch them sleeping. I like Naz as a fit in SA and he is on a short list of established players I would actually want to bring on.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/7PAckNyVD2w?si=wit-1FC3pPtRiLCg

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/TtmjQZaeUv4?si=uutKFp_wuBR3SZRH

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/TiOY3RWb8O8?si=Kl7ElTy4VRQhvQFM

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/-Rf1dc8fJVU?si=aPVhdD3RCx5BfHc7

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/8n1RyP3Mz2s?si=VQtV2hnhjf5D0g_I

[cutewizard]

By gawd, Naz Reid can play

He is a warrior......

[Pauleta14]

They need to shed salary,being a second apron team. If they were OKwith payroll, they’d just keep Naz. The only Hail Mary possible would be if Randle stupidly opted out.

What if Randle extends by lowering his salary for a longer deal?

[tbdog]

What if Randle extends by lowering his salary for a longer deal?

Most likely scenario. Pretty sure his agent doesn't want him to hit the free agency. I don't think he'll have a market.

[couchman]

I wanted him badly the last time he was going into free agency and instead he quickly signed a sweetheart deal to stay in Minny.
If the Twolves want to keep him they need to start him and pay him and he’ll stay.
He likes it there and the fans adore him.
If they screw that up we might have a chance

[Bruno]

If Wolves don't keep him, it would be for financial reasons. He could then be S&T in a trade where Wolves don't take back salary (or at least very little salary).

The blueprint of a S&T move with Spurs getting Naz Reid would be:

Spurs trade:
- 2 second round picks.
- 2030 first round pick swap with Minny.
- Branham
- Wesley
- One of Mamu, Bassey or McLaughlin S&T with a $3M/1 year guaranteed salary
Spurs get:
- Naz Reid with a $91M/4 years contract.

Wolves trade Naz Reid for Mamu/Bassey/McLaughlin and the 2030 swap rights cancelled.

Team 3 trade nothing for Branham and a second round pick.

Team 4 trade nothing for Wesley and a second round pick.


If $91M/ 4 years isn't enough for Naz Reid, this trade could be done with him getting a little more and with Mamu or Bassey getting more guaranteed $ in their S&T. Spurs could also spend a third round pick to trade this S&T player to another team than Minny.

If Naz Reid want something like $120M/4 years, the trade would be more complicate to do because it would take a team willing to take Barnes or Johnson without sending back salaries.

[LeBowen]

Most likely scenario. Pretty sure his agent doesn't want him to hit the free agency. I don't think he'll have a market.

Why would it be the most likely scenario?
It's obvious Timberwolves don't want Randle, he doesn't fit the team.
He was just a salary filler in KAT trade to give them long-term flexibility.

The only way he stays in Minnesota is if he opts-in and Timberwolves fail to trade him this summer.

Finding a way to keep Naz will be their #1 priority, then it's about if he wants to stay there or prefers a change of scenary.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I meant to write "aside from Fox", but yes I do recall CP3 also having "betting" odds favoring the Spurs. Though it seems like we're always the favorite to land any player, and I doubt there is much actual betting that happens with these odds

Aldridge? But that was a decade ago now (!)

[ginobilized]

Naz is the dream proto-type PF for the Spurs. Of course, this seems like an unsubstantiated assertion that he wants to come here.

The great news is that a PF of this type is on the horizon for the Spurs. That's the missing piece here. The other pieces should fall into place around a beast PF. There are more SF types to choose from that could round out the lineup.

I'm not totally sold on the coaching staff/FO at Minnesota. It seems like something is off up there.

[John B]

Goodbye Sochan

[ginobilized]

Goodbye Sochan

I don't know. I could see Sochan being a decent backup to Reid for small ball lineups and to keep up the defensive pressure when Naz sits.

[John B]

I don't know. I could see Sochan being a decent backup to Reid for small ball lineups and to keep up the defensive pressure when Naz sits.

True but as a 9th overall pick, we were hoping for a starting PF when Spurs picked him up. It’s stating to be all 3 of our 2022 picks are disappointments.

[LeBowen]

True but as a 9th overall pick, we were hoping for a starting PF when Spurs picked him up. It’s stating to be all 3 of our 2022 picks are disappointments.

It's better to accept a player isn't good enough than to offer them a family values extension and hope for the best.
Which team would even be interested in Devin's $27M a year with so little cap space available around the league?
Soon enough we'll just be hoping we can dump him without giving up too much.

[Dverde]

I don’t think this is happening unless he really wants to play here. I think there will be more lucrative offers. Just like with Tobias Harris some team will overpay him.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Something that I don't see being discussed about the Naz Reid situation is Minnesota's ownership, which is super weird right now. No one knows whether they'd be willing to keep paying extraordinarily high levels of tax , especially if they flame out in the playoffs early. According to the latest figures T-wolves had only $328 mil of total Revenue for the previous season, and for this one they'll be paying $91 mil of tax on top of a $200+ mil payroll for the roster only. This is unsustainable for a business.

So the question is, would the new owners (if they finally take over), have the stomach to keep paying? We're not talking about the 2nd apron even, just the tax.

Their cap situation obviously depends a lot on Randle's PO, but I imagine if some team offers Naz something in the region of $25-30 mil starting, it'd be really difficult for Minnesota to keep him. Besides, he's unrestricted, if he wants to go somewhere there's nothing they can do about it. So, basically, if he wants to sign for the Spurs there are a million ways to get it done, be it a sign and trade or straight up after dumping some contracts.

[montgod]

Most likely scenario. Pretty sure his agent doesn't want him to hit the free agency. I don't think he'll have a market.

If Tobias Harris had a market, Randle will too

[John B]

I don’t think this is happening unless he really wants to play here. I think there will be more lucrative offers. Just like with Tobias Harris some team will overpay him.

Wemby, Fox, Castle... Even Flagg hinted wanted to team-up with Wemby. Dybantsa was vocal about it. We have to accept this is a new territory for Spurs. Big FA’s are starting to see the Spurs as ideal destination. I’m sure the FO is aware and want to be patient with which players to chase and spend a hefty price knowing their options. I sure hope they don’t get caught behind eight ball though.

[scott]

We all thought that trading for Fox while keeping Kelvin and Evan were good things... turns out that those guys will now be what prevents us from being able to make any FA signings :lol

[LeBowen]

Kelvin and Evan

:lmao :lmao

Btw, another gem from Spurs subreddit:

https://i.imgur.com/sGU0EcB.png

:lmao

[scott]

:lmao :lmao

Btw, another gem from Spurs subreddit:

https://i.imgur.com/sGU0EcB.png

:lmao

Yeah, I enjoyed reading through that thread yesterday. It's hilarious. It's even funnier where the same person (I assume) posted it on BlueSky or Twitter and there were a lot of "man, that's a lot to to give up..." responses. The even funnier ones were "Devin yes, but IDK if I'd give up Keldon..."

I'm not going to pick on just Spurs fans, because I think casual fans* of most teams are delusional like this, overrating their own players.

*By casual fan I even mean ones who consider themselves die hard fans, watch ever game, etc. but never dive into the rest of the league, understand the game, etc. You know, the kind who thought CP3 was the move that was gonna make us contenders... or those who have popular YouTube channels that talk about how Sochan is a dealbreaker in a potential trade for an all-star... or are real estate agents who tweet non-stop about the Spurs but every tweet is just straight up snifferism. Those are all "die hard" casuals. SpursTalk has some interesting characters, but I maintain this is the home of the sharpest Spurs fans around. Even folks I disagree with like exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20), are in the top 5% of smart Spurs fans. Sorry to get sentimental, but I'm glad LJ and Kori continue to pay the bills for the Slovenian servers so that we have this place. I'm gonna be miserable if I'm just stuck with reddit.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

:lmao :lmao

Btw, another gem from Spurs subreddit:

https://i.imgur.com/sGU0EcB.png

:lmao

Tbh, yes, this is clearly a delusional take, however, some of the super negative player evaluations are also a bit weird coming from people who follow and understand the league. For example, a lot of people on this forum thought the Spurs would need to pay a hefty price to get rid of Collins's contract and this wasn't the case in reality. Trade evaluations are often more about leverage, contract and circumstance than about the actual current form a player is in.

[rjv]

When's the last time the Spurs landed any of these "Spurs are the favorite to land..." scenarios? Does anyone actually bet on these or are they all just hypothetical odds?

I imagine the Wolves have planned for this and are going to resign him, but a lot rides on Randle opting in/out. I imagine he opts in which is going to put MIN into a tougher spot, but I think the real impact is going to be their inability to hang on to NAW, because I doubt they want to pay the repeater tax.

If Randle for some reason opts out, then MIN is probably in the clear.

i'm banking on your recent track record to serve as a reverse jinx.

[scott]

i'm banking on your recent track record to serve as a reverse jinx.

Tell me more about my recent track record

[rjv]

Tell me more about my recent track record

four game win streak out of the all-star prediction (then it's announced that he is out for the season), all that we would have to give up to get fox (worked out better than anyone would have hoped). so, you know, i'm hoping that the opposite happens again.

[scott]

four game win streak out of the all-star prediction (then it's announced that he is out for the season), all that we would have to give up to get fox (worked out better than anyone would have hoped). so, you know, i'm hoping that the opposite happens again.

Can you get my Devin reverse jinx to start working please?

Also, thanks for reminding me I need to go back in to my Trade Value model and plug the moves of the last deadline to check how they compare against what the model predicted and update the model for the offseason.

[rjv]

Can you get my Devin reverse jinx to start working please?

Also, thanks for reminding me I need to go back in to my Trade Value model and plug the moves of the last deadline to check how they compare against what the model predicted and update the model for the offseason.

man, i don't know about devin. he's been so bad, i wonder if that is even reversible. looking forward to any updated models.

[spurraider21]

:lmao :lmao

Btw, another gem from Spurs subreddit:

https://i.imgur.com/sGU0EcB.png

:lmao
depends tbh. what if our two 2025 first rounders end up #1 and #2 overall?

[scott]

depends tbh. what if our two 2025 first rounders end up #1 and #2 overall?

If your question is, would I give up the #2 pick overall to get rid of Evan and Kelvin... man... that's a tough one

[LeBowen]

If your question is, would I give up the #2 pick overall to get rid of Evan and Kelvin... man... that's a tough one

Evan reminds me of Turner and my favorite Game of Zones video which can easily be applied to Vassell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1UT32ZNOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1UT32ZNOg

And now, with the hot hand, Sir Evan Turner is going to light Hinkie on fire from mid-range distance...commence the long two! :lol

[stephen jackson]

lol

[tbdog]

Why would it be the most likely scenario?
It's obvious Timberwolves don't want Randle, he doesn't fit the team.
He was just a salary filler in KAT trade to give them long-term flexibility.

The only way he stays in Minnesota is if he opts-in and Timberwolves fail to trade him this summer.

Finding a way to keep Naz will be their #1 priority, then it's about if he wants to stay there or prefers a change of scenary.

Oh I think Twolves will find a trade partner. But other than a team like the Bulls that are always looking to treadmill, I don't see a playoff team taking on Randal.

[Thomas82]

By gawd, Naz Reid can play

He is a warrior......

I wanted us to draft him in 2019. How in the world did he go undrafted?

[Em-City]

Yeah, I enjoyed reading through that thread yesterday. It's hilarious. It's even funnier where the same person (I assume) posted it on BlueSky or Twitter and there were a lot of "man, that's a lot to to give up..." responses. The even funnier ones were "Devin yes, but IDK if I'd give up Keldon..."

I'm not going to pick on just Spurs fans, because I think casual fans* of most teams are delusional like this, overrating their own players.

*By casual fan I even mean ones who consider themselves die hard fans, watch ever game, etc. but never dive into the rest of the league, understand the game, etc. You know, the kind who thought CP3 was the move that was gonna make us contenders... or those who have popular YouTube channels that talk about how Sochan is a dealbreaker in a potential trade for an all-star... or are real estate agents who tweet non-stop about the Spurs but every tweet is just straight up snifferism. Those are all "die hard" casuals. SpursTalk has some interesting characters, but I maintain this is the home of the sharpest Spurs fans around. Even folks I disagree with like exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20), are in the top 5% of smart Spurs fans. Sorry to get sentimental, but I'm glad LJ and Kori continue to pay the bills for the Slovenian servers so that we have this place. I'm gonna be miserable if I'm just stuck with reddit.
Didn't the real estate agent post here previously?

[cutewizard]

I want Naiz Reid as our starting power forward and this unique player as his back up

https://nbadraftroom.com/collin-murray-boyles/

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeJKc5tUpY8

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA0ywcSlByI

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjFlKr9bUJs

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfjDUZDx0Xg

[tbdog]

He will be sort after. You don't get many PF size players than shoot 3's in today's league.

[mo7888]

He will be sort after. You don't get many PF size players than shoot 3's in today's league.

Which makes Rasheer Fleming more valuable..

[exstatic]

Yeah, I enjoyed reading through that thread yesterday. It's hilarious. It's even funnier where the same person (I assume) posted it on BlueSky or Twitter and there were a lot of "man, that's a lot to to give up..." responses. The even funnier ones were "Devin yes, but IDK if I'd give up Keldon..."

I'm not going to pick on just Spurs fans, because I think casual fans* of most teams are delusional like this, overrating their own players.

*By casual fan I even mean ones who consider themselves die hard fans, watch ever game, etc. but never dive into the rest of the league, understand the game, etc. You know, the kind who thought CP3 was the move that was gonna make us contenders... or those who have popular YouTube channels that talk about how Sochan is a dealbreaker in a potential trade for an all-star... or are real estate agents who tweet non-stop about the Spurs but every tweet is just straight up snifferism. Those are all "die hard" casuals. SpursTalk has some interesting characters, but I maintain this is the home of the sharpest Spurs fans around. Even folks I disagree with like exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20), are in the top 5% of smart Spurs fans. Sorry to get sentimental, but I'm glad LJ and Kori continue to pay the bills for the Slovenian servers so that we have this place. I'm gonna be miserable if I'm just stuck with reddit.

You agreed with something I said last week, and I almost fainted.

[scott]

You agreed with something I said last week, and I almost fainted.

"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us.”

[spurraider21]

Obviously we're going to trade Vassell + KJ for Durant, and as bruno suggested sign and trade for Naz in exchange for Branham/Wesley/Mamu

Fox/Castle/Durant/Reid/Wemby with a bench unit featuring Sochan/Barnes/Champagnie and somebody to run point

[RC_Drunkford]

Obviously we're going to trade Vassell + KJ for Durant, and as bruno suggested sign and trade for Naz in exchange for Branham/Wesley/Mamu

Fox/Castle/Durant/Reid/Wemby with a bench unit featuring Sochan/Barnes/Champagnie and somebody to run point

You‘d have to trade somebody to get Naz in a sign and trade. There‘s no cap space left

[spurraider21]

You‘d have to trade somebody to get Naz in a sign and trade. There‘s no cap space left


Obviously we're going to trade Vassell + KJ for Durant, and as bruno suggested sign and trade for Naz in exchange for Branham/Wesley/Mamu

Fox/Castle/Durant/Reid/Wemby with a bench unit featuring Sochan/Barnes/Champagnie and somebody to run point


If Wolves don't keep him, it would be for financial reasons. He could then be S&T in a trade where Wolves don't take back salary (or at least very little salary).

The blueprint of a S&T move with Spurs getting Naz Reid would be:

Spurs trade:
- 2 second round picks.
- 2030 first round pick swap with Minny.
- Branham
- Wesley
- One of Mamu, Bassey or McLaughlin S&T with a $3M/1 year guaranteed salary
Spurs get:
- Naz Reid with a $91M/4 years contract.

Wolves trade Naz Reid for Mamu/Bassey/McLaughlin and the 2030 swap rights cancelled.

Team 3 trade nothing for Branham and a second round pick.

Team 4 trade nothing for Wesley and a second round pick.


If $91M/ 4 years isn't enough for Naz Reid, this trade could be done with him getting a little more and with Mamu or Bassey getting more guaranteed $ in their S&T. Spurs could also spend a third round pick to trade this S&T player to another team than Minny.

If Naz Reid want something like $120M/4 years, the trade would be more complicate to do because it would take a team willing to take Barnes or Johnson without sending back salaries.

[scott]

Spurs could also spend a third round pick to trade this S&T player to another team than Minny.

I'm for spending as many third round picks as we have in order to get good players.

[RC_Drunkford]

Come on man everybody with a brain knows the Wolves are not trading Naz Reid for 3 players that they are going to waive. Also Mamu is not signed for next season, he‘s a free agent. The same goes for McLaughlin. Wesley and Branham make less than 10 million combined, if Reid‘s salary was that low he‘d just take the MLE. He‘ll at least demand 20 per year.

[mystargtr34]

Naz Reid will have teams offering $25M-$30M per year imo.

[exstatic]

Naz Reid will have teams offering $25M-$30M per year imo.

Almost no teams have anywhere near that cap room, and the ones that do are crap teams. Second apron has made this a different day.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQCN1Jh1MNs

[mudyez]

What do you think, it would take to get Reid...maybe even in a S&T.

As I see it, our FO either loves one of the bigs in the draft (Maluach?) or goes for a wing (Knueppel?).
If it's the former you may just run it back and see if Vassel can become enough of a 3&D player, we need him to be and if Keldon can be the 6th man he was later this season.

But if it's the rookie wing, isn't Reid still the perfect solution at 4 plus Wemby backup?

Is Vassell enough or do we have to include a pick (#15 or whatever it will be, the swap in 203something?)?...After all his contracts basically runs out anyway.

Might be a good thing, if Minnesota does badly in the playoffs. That way, Ried might flirt with a change of scenery.

[dn0774]

What do you think, it would take to get Reid...maybe even in a S&T.

As I see it, our FO either loves one of the bigs in the draft (Maluach?) or goes for a wing (Knueppel?).
If it's the former you may just run it back and see if Vassel can become enough of a 3&D player, we need him to be and if Keldon can be the 6th man he was later this season.

But if it's the rookie wing, isn't Reid still the perfect solution at 4 plus Wemby backup?

Is Vassell enough or do we have to include a pick (#15 or whatever it will be, the swap in 203something?)?...After all his contracts basically runs out anyway.

Might be a good thing, if Minnesota does badly in the playoffs. That way, Ried might flirt with a change of scenery.

Vassell is definitely not enough imo, probably have to give one of our 1sts this year too. Only caveat is if Reid threatens to walk to Spurs in FA (MLE?) but I think Wolves wouldn't take that as a serious threat as Naz's value is much higher than MLE.

[MarCowMar]

Any relation to JR Reid?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Seems to me we can easily get Naz Reid. Don't need to trade for him. Just dump Devin's salary + SRDs to a crap team and use the salary to sign Reid 4-year $100 million.

I don't see any other team will be have better offers, as Exstatic mentioned above.

[Leetonidas]

Seems to me we can easily get Naz Reid. Don't need to trade for him. Just dump Devin's salary + SRDs to a crap team and use the salary to sign Reid 4-year $100 million.

I don't see any other team will be have better offers, as Exstatic mentioned above.

What team is going to just take Vassell off our hands for us for free? He has negative value

[exstatic]

They would let go of Reid because of the second apron crunch. They’re not taking Vassell for that reason. Our best trade chip might be Barnes ending contract, plus picks.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

What team is going to just take Vassell off our hands for us for free? He has negative value

Negative, just like Zach Collins right? Unreadable.

Also, Devin’s contract isn’t the only way to get Naz. If he indicates he wants to go to the Spurs there are many ways to get it done.

[Raven]

Obviously we're going to trade Vassell + KJ for Durant, and as bruno suggested sign and trade for Naz in exchange for Branham/Wesley/Mamu

Fox/Castle/Durant/Reid/Wemby with a bench unit featuring Sochan/Barnes/Champagnie and somebody to run point

obviously

[Manu&Duncan fan]

What team is going to just take Vassell off our hands for us for free? He has negative value

Teams like Pelicans, Nets, Washington may see Devin's value as a 3rd option. His recent numbers are pretty good.

[Arguendo]

Seems to me we can easily get Naz Reid. Don't need to trade for him. Just dump Devin's salary + SRDs to a crap team and use the salary to sign Reid 4-year $100 million.

I don't see any other team will be have better offers, as Exstatic mentioned above.
This is the top 10 in expected cap space this offseason.


1
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_bkn.png BKN (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/158/cap/2025)
9
24.3
$174,146,775
$-19,499,775
$91,807,098
$63,497,156
$49,294,390
-


2
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_det.png DET (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/100/cap/2025)
10
24.7
$185,084,379
$-30,437,379
$24,632,990
$127,468,272
$80,295,896
-


3
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_no.png NOP (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/180/cap/2025)
13
26.7
$230,118,551
$-75,471,551
$21,672,192
$176,060,844
$101,669,858
-


4
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_chi.png CHI (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/64/cap/2025)
12
26.1
$185,890,885
$-31,243,885
$19,800,666
$134,846,334
$57,561,977
-


5
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_hou.png HOU (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/102/cap/2025)
12
25.3
$244,764,988
$-90,117,988
$19,293,049
$190,321,540
$112,165,217
-


6
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_mem.png MEM (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/106/cap/2025)
11
25.3
$196,075,648
$-41,428,648
$17,515,972
$135,394,109
$99,585,155
$464,050


7
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_wsh.png WAS (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/122/cap/2025)
14
25.4
$238,887,538
$-84,240,538
$14,491,522
$157,758,407
$87,447,416
-


8
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/uta_2022.png UTA (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/121/cap/2025)
15
24.7
$156,781,316
$-2,134,316
$13,904,899
$152,684,328
$92,149,100
-


9
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_cha.png CHA (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/212/cap/2025)
12
24.9
$172,595,850
$-17,948,850
$12,363,215
$151,229,689
$82,333,760
-


10
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_sa.png SAS (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/118/cap/2025)
10
24.5
$173,746,928
$-19,099,928
$8,782,650
$143,318,612
$83,096,620
-



Think Nets may be the only team that could actually absorb DV without sending salary back and think Spurs would have to clear $16M+ for Naz at $25M.
Det has Ivey, NOP with DJM, Chi with White, Hou with Green, Grizz with Bane and Wells. Was, UTA, Cha you've gotta take back $10+M to make it work. Was is paying Pool $32M next yr, Cha needs D at the 2 but maybe that could work. UTA may be the best fit but Sexton, George, Clarkson, Collier is a small gaurd rotation, DV would basically be they're SF and I think Ainge would make us pay.
I'd prolly rather roll the dice that DV looked bad after surgery, next yr he'll (finally) understand the tank is over, he's not a featured guy anymore, and its not okay to dribble for 18 secs. The effort on better on D, fingers crossed he gets his roll will be to mostly just spot-up on O.

Flip side, there's not a lot of FA money for Naz, Det is the only fit with money, sign/trade is very possible and that'll cost way less than what half the board wanted to give up for an older, more expansive, worse 2-way player in Lauri. But Naz would be a nice fit with the Pistons.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

This is the top 10 in expected cap space this offseason.


1
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_bkn.png BKN (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/158/cap/2025)
9
24.3
$174,146,775
$-19,499,775
$91,807,098
$63,497,156
$49,294,390
-


2
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_det.png DET (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/100/cap/2025)
10
24.7
$185,084,379
$-30,437,379
$24,632,990
$127,468,272
$80,295,896
-


3
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_no.png NOP (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/180/cap/2025)
13
26.7
$230,118,551
$-75,471,551
$21,672,192
$176,060,844
$101,669,858
-


4
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_chi.png CHI (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/64/cap/2025)
12
26.1
$185,890,885
$-31,243,885
$19,800,666
$134,846,334
$57,561,977
-


5
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_hou.png HOU (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/102/cap/2025)
12
25.3
$244,764,988
$-90,117,988
$19,293,049
$190,321,540
$112,165,217
-


6
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_mem.png MEM (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/106/cap/2025)
11
25.3
$196,075,648
$-41,428,648
$17,515,972
$135,394,109
$99,585,155
$464,050


7
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_wsh.png WAS (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/122/cap/2025)
14
25.4
$238,887,538
$-84,240,538
$14,491,522
$157,758,407
$87,447,416
-


8
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/uta_2022.png UTA (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/121/cap/2025)
15
24.7
$156,781,316
$-2,134,316
$13,904,899
$152,684,328
$92,149,100
-


9
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_cha.png CHA (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/212/cap/2025)
12
24.9
$172,595,850
$-17,948,850
$12,363,215
$151,229,689
$82,333,760
-


10
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_sa.png SAS (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/118/cap/2025)
10
24.5
$173,746,928
$-19,099,928
$8,782,650
$143,318,612
$83,096,620
-



Think Nets may be the only team that could actually absorb DV without sending salary back and think Spurs would have to clear $16M+ for Naz at $25M.
Det has Ivey, NOP with DJM, Chi with White, Hou with Green, Grizz with Bane and Wells. Was, UTA, Cha you've gotta take back $10+M to make it work. Was is paying Pool $32M next yr, Cha needs D at the 2 but maybe that could work. UTA may be the best fit but Sexton, George, Clarkson, Collier is a small gaurd rotation, DV would basically be they're SF and I think Ainge would make us pay.
I'd prolly rather roll the dice that DV looked bad after surgery, next yr he'll (finally) understand the tank is over, he's not a featured guy anymore, and its not okay to dribble for 18 secs. The effort on better on D, fingers crossed he gets his roll will be to mostly just spot-up on O.

Flip side, there's not a lot of FA money for Naz, Det is the only fit with money, sign/trade is very possible and that'll cost way less than what half the board wanted to give up for an older, more expansive, worse 2-way player in Lauri. But Naz would be a nice fit with the Pistons.

Thank you for the info! Good news that only Detroit has fit and money for Naz Reid.

[Leetonidas]

Negative, just like Zach Collins right? Unreadable.

Also, Devin’s contract isn’t the only way to get Naz. If he indicates he wants to go to the Spurs there are many ways to get it done.

You realize we had to cough up the Bulls pick to get them to take him along with Jones right? They were also trying to dump lavine. It wasn't just a straight salary dump

[exstatic]

You realize we had to cough up the Bulls pick to get them to take him along with Jones right? They were also trying to dump lavine. It wasn't just a straight salary dump

The Bulls pick return was so that it looked like they got a positive return on Lavine.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You realize we had to cough up the Bulls pick to get them to take him along with Jones right? They were also trying to dump lavine. It wasn't just a straight salary dump

This implies Lavine was a straight salary dump, which he clearly wasn’t and held value for Sacramento in the very same trade. Spurs took advantage of their leverage with Sacramento and Chicago’s irrational overvaluation of their own pick, which they could have easily kept (and still made the play in). In this trade the Collins and Jones contracts were neutral value ballast.

[Arguendo]

This implies Lavine was a straight salary dump, which he clearly wasn’t and held value for Sacramento in the very same trade. Spurs took advantage of their leverage with Sacramento and Chicago’s irrational overvaluation of their own pick, which they could have easily kept (and still made the play in). In this trade the Collins and Jones contracts were neutral value ballast.

Definitely salvaging value for Sac.
For the Bulls I think it was much more about freeing up shots for White and minutes for Giddey and Buzelis, who put up 21/9.5/8.5 and 13/4.5/1.5 after the trade. Obviously they wanted off the $98M owed to 30 y/o salary too, but I think they saw Giddey as a special 21 y/o talent, were happy to trade Caruso for a distressed asset, and Giddey played like Luka after the trade on .500/.450/.800 splits with 14 double-doubles and 5 triple-doubles in 24 games. I think the pick back was more a bonus than the driver.

Not a huge sample size but not tiny either. Maybe Giddey finally turned the corner when he actually got to fully utilize his skillset and control the show, Bulls realized he'd never had that chance next to SGA and Levine.
Timing is great for Bulls, the Nets are the only team that can really make Giddey a big RFA offer, Bulls got their PG/SG/SF under control, the 4th most cap space this summer, '26 1st as at asset rather than to Spurs. Right now it looks like they have played this very, very well considering they were looking at dumping Levine with at least 1 1st a year ago, that's making lemonade.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Definitely salvaging value for Sac.
For the Bulls I think it was much more about freeing up shots for White and minutes for Giddey and Buzelis, who put up 21/9.5/8.5 and 13/4.5/1.5 after the trade. Obviously they wanted off the $98M owed to 30 y/o salary too, but I think they saw Giddey as a special 21 y/o talent, were happy to trade Caruso for a distressed asset, and Giddey played like Luka after the trade on .500/.450/.800 splits with 14 double-doubles and 5 triple-doubles in 24 games. I think the pick back was more a bonus than the driver.

Not a huge sample size but not tiny either. Maybe Giddey finally turned the corner when he actually got to fully utilize his skillset and control the show, Bulls realized he'd never had that chance next to SGA and Levine.
Timing is great for Bulls, the Nets are the only team that can really make Giddey a big RFA offer, Bulls got their PG/SG/SF under control, the 4th most cap space this summer, '26 1st as at asset rather than to Spurs. Right now it looks like they have played this very, very well considering they were looking at dumping Levine with at least 1 1st a year ago, that's making lemonade.

Did you watch the play in? Miami completely disregarded Giddey, guarded him like Westbrook and he couldn’t make them pay, it got in his head and his confidence was shattered within 5 minutes. He’s fools gold and regardless of his stats I wouldn’t want him anywhere near the Spurs.

Of course Bulls will pay him because they’re the Bulls and will continue being a play in team forever.

[CGD]

Naz for Vassell straight up (plus whatever SRP they want). MIN is over a barrel with Naz and the first year of his next deal is probably in the range of Dev’s next year. Dev’s deal also declines which could appeal to MIN, who has to replace the offensive production somehow.

[exstatic]

Naz for Vassell straight up (plus whatever SRP they want). MIN is over a barrel with Naz and the first year of his next deal is probably in the range of Dev’s next year. Dev’s deal also declines which could appeal to MIN, who has to replace the offensive production somehow.

Minnesota is deathly close to the second apron, and will not want a contract like Devin’s. If Randle opts in, and he probably will, they’re screwed. HB, Malaki, Blake, cap room + draft assets. Those are all contracts that roll off in 2026.

[CGD]

Minnesota is deathly close to the second apron, and will not want a contract like Devin’s. If Randle opts in, and he probably will, they’re screwed. HB, Malaki, Blake, cap room + draft assets. Those are all contracts that roll off in 2026.

Well Randell also rolls off in 2026.

To me it’s a question of how expensive will Naz be? Then, how do they plan to make up his production on offense? If he’s starting at 30M per then trading for Dev actually saves them some cash. An Ant/Dev backcourt is pretty compelling actually.

[Knoxxx]

An Ant/Dev backcourt is pretty compelling actually.

Spoken like a true salesman!!!

[Manu&Duncan fan]

No. Dev can indeed work well as Ant's sidekick. When that trade happens and see Devin play well, I won't regret. Naz Reid is just a better player for spurs.

Many fans here think Devin has negative value. Yes for Spurs, but not necessarily for other teams.

[dn0774]

No. Dev can indeed work well as Ant's sidekick. When that trade happens and see Devin play well, I won't regret. Naz Reid is just a better player for spurs.

Many fans here think Devin has negative value. Yes for Spurs, but not necessarily for other teams.

https://tenor.com/bL5l6.gif

[Ice009]

https://tenor.com/bL5l6.gif

That line is one of my favorites from the series. lol. I'll have to try and watch that episode and/or some of the series as I haven't watched it in years.

[Arguendo]

Did you watch the play in? Miami completely disregarded Giddey, guarded him like Westbrook and he couldn’t make them pay, it got in his head and his confidence was shattered within 5 minutes. He’s fools gold and regardless of his stats I wouldn’t want him anywhere near the Spurs.

Of course Bulls will pay him because they’re the Bulls and will continue being a play in team forever.
Very confusing response, didn't reply to a single point I made, but conjured up the idea I want Giddey on the Spurs. I don't, struggling to understand where that came from.

Is Giddey a star? No he's flawed and lacks confidence, but he has real skill and potential, and he is definitely a quality role player at 22 and now he has a set role that suits his skills, but he is lacking teammates that knock down shots.
I watched, you know the Heat are a top 10 D team, had the best 2 players on the court, that the Bulls don't have a star, that Giddey's forte is creating for others, that White went 5-20, Buz/Heurter went 2/8 from deep, right? Did you watch the game?
Giddey was 9-21, 2/7, and 5-6 from the line. The Bulls were outmatched, they didn't lose because Giddey.

Bulls had a .420 win% with Levine (during maybe his best season) before the trade and 0.563% after. Giddey was easily the biggest reason for that jump, he had a massive jump in assists once he got to run the O, that couldn't happen with Levine.

Giddey may well be playoff Fools Gold, but a 1 game sample isn't a good eval nor is a loaded OKC last yr with a 21y/o Giddey playing out-of-role. The Bulls are happy with reg season wins and playoff Fools Gold and tread mill hoping to land a star. Giddey is worth way more today than Caruso.

Giddey was top 15 in Ast% and top 25 in Reb% this yr, that's f-ing valuable, with .47/.38/.78 splits over 70 games. 5 trip-doubs in 24 games, 21st in the NBA in DD and 7th in TD this season. Its not like he is replacement level. You think the Bulls should absolutely let him walk, and that its stupid to pay starter money for a 22 y/o who puts up elite reg season stats and won at a 56% clip after trading their only "star"? He's not gonna get even close to max unless the Nets lose they're minds.

The list of guys that are both top 30 in Ast% and top 50 in Reb% are all Max guys. Giddey won't get close to the max, only the Nets and Bulls can even offer him more than $25M. He will almost certainly be underpaid.
But the point you somehow missed was that the trade wasn't to get back the pick this year, it opened up the '25, '26, and '27 firsts, allowed Giddey/Buz to grow, got them playing way better ball, and freed up some money this yr and tons of money next yr and in '27. And it turned a 21-29 team into a 18-14 team, and significantly increased the value of their asset pool.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://tenor.com/bL5l6.gif

Why do you imply I'm lying? :spin

One man's trash may be another mans' treasure. With another team, Devin may very well average 20+ point with 38% 3-pointer accuracy.

He is bad for spurs because he needs too many touches, dribbles too much, takes too many tough jumpers. Another team may like and need him to do these things as a 3rd star.

To be honest, if not for Reid, Spurs FO may not want to trade him. He is hard-working and humble guy. Will be willing to adapt to reduced role.

[Arguendo]

Minnesota is deathly close to the second apron, and will not want a contract like Devin’s. If Randle opts in, and he probably will, they’re screwed. HB, Malaki, Blake, cap room + draft assets. Those are all contracts that roll off in 2026.
They also desperately need PG depth + NAW is a UFA, hopefully they see something in Blake
This is gonna be a super fun offseason with so many teams against the apron and the Nets with $98M in cash, and no one else with even $25M free. Nets are gonna be evolved in a ton of dumps, great time to have a bundle of 2nds to get involved in multi-team trades, think we still have 15 2nds or so.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

"Giddey won't get close to the max, only the Nets and Bulls can even offer him more than $25M. He will almost certainly be underpaid."

This is interesting. Could we make him an offer and then sign & trade? Giddey for Devin + Atlanta 25, 26 pick

[rankingtear]

MIN can't sign and trade him they are bound by the second apron.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Naz Reid is so good yesterday. cannot wait for him to join the spurs.

[baseline bum]

Minnesota is deathly close to the second apron, and will not want a contract like Devin’s. If Randle opts in, and he probably will, they’re screwed. HB, Malaki, Blake, cap room + draft assets. Those are all contracts that roll off in 2026.

Even if Randle opts in the Wolves will be just a little under $35 million below the second apron so should be able to figure out a way to keep Naz if he wants to stay. Do you think Naz would command more than say 4 years, $135 million? Even 4 years, $150 million should be doable if that ends up his market. If Naz wants to be here he's going to have to convince the Wolves he's willing to sign in Brooklyn if they don't sign and trade him here.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

MIN can't sign and trade him they are bound by the second apron.

They’re over 30 million below the second apron even with Randle’s option.

[scott]

I'll make the bold prediction now that Naz will end up in a very unexpected destination, choosing money and opportunity over competitiveness. Future Brooklyn Net, Naz Reid.

[ginobilized]

I'll make the bold prediction now that Naz will end up in a very unexpected destination, choosing money and opportunity over competitiveness. Future Brooklyn Net, Naz Reid.

I'm hoping this is a reverse jinx. If we don't get Naz, I fear we grab another white dude with a headband.

[scott]

I'm hoping this is a reverse jinx. If we don't get Naz, I fear we grab another white dude with a headband.

Odds are extremely slim he'll be a Spur either way, tbh. I have close to zero hope of us landing him, to the point where I'm not even thinking about it anymore.

[Ice009]

Odds are extremely slim he'll be a Spur either way, tbh. I have close to zero hope of us landing him, to the point where I'm not even thinking about it anymore.

Fair, enough. You're right, probably such a low chance, not worth wasting too much time thinking about it.

If Minnesota go on a run, what do you guys think they'll do if both Naz and Randle perform? Do you think they'll try and get both back?

Edit : Just saw they both have player options. Can the Wovles afford it if they both opt in?

I also saw that Naz Reid grew up in New Jersey. I think the Nets are a real possibility if they offer him a decent offer. I guess it just depends on if he wants to win or not.

Who would you guys say is this year's 6th man of the year?

[taps]

I'm hoping this is a reverse jinx. If we don't get Naz, I fear we grab another white dude with a headband.

Those are the worst.

[Knoxxx]

Cheer for LAL to bounce MIN in first round and Reid to play more like he did the last game - 9 points.

[Ice009]

Why would the Spurs want him if he comes up small? Are you saying he's going to be cheaper and/or Minnesota won't want to re-sign him if the Wolves flame out and he plays poorly?

[ambchang]

I’ve never been a huge fan for Reid at $30m per. Sure it’s better than Vassell for $27m, Johnson for $18m or sochan for $15m+ but it’s an overpay. Sure if we can get him for $100m for 5 but that’s going to happen.

[scott]

Naz will sign with BKN for slightly above market and then they'll look to flip him at the deadline. You heard it here first.

[Ice009]

Naz will sign with BKN for slightly above market and then they'll look to flip him at the deadline. You heard it here first.

If that happens, what would be the reason for trading him? To get better assets back?

[scott]

If that happens, what would be the reason for trading him? To get better assets back?

Isn't that the reason for all trades?

[Ice009]

Isn't that the reason for all trades?

Well yeah, but since he's from New Jersey, I am thinking he wants to stay there. Having said that, since Brooklyn has the money, they may want to spend it on him and then he might be receptive to getting traded to a team that can contend as his contract is sorted out at that point.

[scott]

Well yeah, but since he's from New Jersey, I am thinking he wants to stay there. Having said that, since Brooklyn has the money, they may want to spend it on him and then he might be receptive to getting traded to a team that can contend as his contract is sorted out at that point.

The idea here is that Brooklyn is one of two options for him to maximize his salary. The other option is MIN (in a straight resigning or a S&T... the straight resigning probably is unlikely in a salary maximizing scenario because MIN will have a limit on what they'll want to offer due to tax and aprons).

What I'm suggesting with Brooklyn is basically an extended S&T. He can't sign with Brooklyn and immediately be traded, but he can sign there (and maximize his contract) and then get traded in-season.

[dn0774]

The idea here is that Brooklyn is one of two options for him to maximize his salary. The other option is MIN (in a straight resigning or a S&T... the straight resigning probably is unlikely in a salary maximizing scenario because MIN will have a limit on what they'll want to offer due to tax and aprons).

What I'm suggesting with Brooklyn is basically an extended S&T. He can't sign with Brooklyn and immediately be traded, but he can sign there (and maximize his contract) and then get traded in-season.

Is that the 6 calendar months stipulation before being able to be traded I am guessing?

[scott]

Is that the 6 calendar months stipulation before being able to be traded I am guessing?

It is the later of 3 months from signing or Dec 15. So even if guys sign the first day of free agency, it is still Dec 15. So you'll often see Dec 15 talked about as the start of trade season.

One thing I did not realize, teams over the 1st apron cannot receive a player back in a S&T unless it takes them under the apron after the trade... so that also limits the number of teams who can do a deal with MIN on a S&T (this same thing wouldn't apply if BKN signed him and then traded him after Dec 15)