Federal Air Marshal fires weapon on a plane

[JoeChalupa]

CNN is reporting: Federal Air Marshal fires weapon on a plane on the runway at Miami Interantional Airport.

~It was just a matter of time.

[Oh, Gee!!]

needs more details.

[SA210]

he then ran off the plane and sped off in a white Bronco...

[JoeChalupa]

A weapon was fired on an American Airlines plane as it was on the runway at Miami International Airport on Wednesday, authorities confirmed. The weapon was apparently fired by a federal air marshal on board the plane, which was on a stopover during a flight from Medellin, Colombia, to Orlando, Florida, police said.

Shots fired on Jet at Miami Airport (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/07/airplane.gunshot/index.html)

More to follow....

[Marklar MM]

A federal official told CNN that the passenger was shot by a federal air marshal, who felt the passenger was acting in a threatening manner. A senior administration official added that the passenger claimed to have a bomb in his carry-on luggage.

An air marshal told the passenger to stop, and he did not, the official said, adding that the marshal fired after the passenger reached into his carry-on bag.

The weapon was fired on the Jetway to Flight 924, which was on a stopover in Miami during a flight from Medellin, Colombia, to Orlando, Florida, police said.

The Boeing 757, which can hold about 180 passengers, was due to take off for Orlando at 2:18 p.m. ET.

Footage from the scene showed police cars and what appeared to be SWAT vehicles surrounding the plane. Several officers wielding rifles were running toward and around the plane.

[Beerjitsu]

Passenger is now officially dead. Apparently there was no bomb.

Still, if what they're reporting now is accurate, I'd say the Air Marshal did his job.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Passenger is now officially dead. Apparently there was no bomb.

Still, if what they're reporting now is accurate, I'd say the Air Marshal did his job.


cuz he said "bong" not bomb.

[Mr. Peabody]

I think he said "It's not like I have a bomb" and they shot him.

[Marklar MM]

laBOMBa

[Oh, Gee!!]

I think he said "It's not like I have a bomb" and they shot him.


I think he said "you ever see Gigli? I heard it bombed."

[JoeChalupa]

Maybe he was headed towards the head to drop a bomb?

[Marklar MM]

He may have been playing bomberman.

[JoeChalupa]

I hope the pilots weren't bombed.

[Marklar MM]

The passenger was telling everyone else of all the Jager Bombs he had the previous night.

[Murphy]

kudos to the air marshall, he did nothing wrong

[SA210]

I think he said "you ever see Gigli? I heard it bombed."
That was it!!!

[E20]

If was the air marshall and I heard the word bomb, I wouldn't shoot to kill, but shoot to disarm, in the leg or arm maybe. But, I'm pretty suprised if he DID have a bomb it didn't show up through security.

[Marklar MM]

I think they checked, and found no bomb.

[gtownspur]

That was it!!!

Yeah, what a crime there. right SA210 :lol

[travis2]

If was the air marshall and I heard the word bomb, I wouldn't shoot to kill, but shoot to disarm, in the leg or arm maybe. But, I'm pretty suprised if he DID have a bomb it didn't show up through security.

That's a good way to get other people killed. Nice job.

Hands and legs are too hard to hit. That's why people are trained to shoot CENTER OF MASS. You protect yourself AND you better protect innocent bystanders.

Shooting guns out of people's hands and running shots into someone's legs are nothing more than Hollywood bullshit.

[Obstructed_View]

Air marshalls rule.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think the air marshal did a great job, this is entirely the victims fault.

[101A]

I think the air marshal did a great job, this is entirely the victims fault.

Dude was off his meds...not his fault, either. Tragic event.

There were TWO air marshalls on that flight (I wonder if they are on more flights than we have been led to believe)? Note to terrorists - look out.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

From what I hear, they base the amount of air marshalls on flights to the percieved threats that could come from those flights.

So a flight from Dallas to SA might have one, while a flight from Colombia to the States would have more.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I don't think there is a guilty party in this mess. I mean you can't blame the marshal for having reacted that way, its his job, and the guy was talking about a bomb, and yet you can't blame the guy either because apparently he was ill. Its just a tragic turn of events.

[JoeChalupa]

Stay on your meds when messing with the Feds.

[Useruser666]

...or you will get a cap planted in your heads! :lol

[boutons]

"he amount of air marshalls on flights "

The number of seats, too. A short, single-aisle 737 wouldn't need 4 AMs but a long, 2-aisle, 400-seat, wide-body jet would.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I've met some Federal marshals; those guys are no joke.

[Crookshanks]

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb
By SIOBHAN MORRISSEY/MIAMI

Posted Thursday, Dec. 08, 2005
At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run off the airplane shortly before take-off.

"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."

When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.' She said, 'Calm down.'"

Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the plane."


McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."

By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I heard about five shots."

McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."

===================
It's only been one day, and already people are criticizing the Marshals. These poor guys are going to be investigated beyond belief!

[Extra Stout]

It's only been one day, and already people are criticizing the Marshals. These poor guys are going to be investigated beyond belief!
The only way to stop that kind of unreasonable criticism is to ban liberals from flying. :D :drunk

[Oh, Gee!!]

It's only been one day, and already people are criticizing the Marshals. These poor guys are going to be investigated beyond belief!

That happens when you kill somebody.

[boutons]

"It's only been one day, and already people are criticizing the Marshals."

In an open society, the govt's killing of any person must not be a secret, and must be open to review. The timing of the review, sooner or later, is never questionable. It's an extremely healthy process that will very probably clarify tons of dark corners and ambiguities in the AM's rule book.

I thought all you right-wing, cowboy, law-n-order gun nuts lived by "shoot first, ask questions later"? Well, you got your "shoot first", now comes the "questions later", so STFU and let the questions be posed and answered.

This guy was running down the aisle. Shooting him in the body where a bomb would to be seems counter-productive, if the shot would have set off the bomb, in the confines of the plane, rather than waiting until he ran through the boarding tunnel and into the more open, perhaps less densely peopled area of the terminal.

How about tackling him first? If the AM was close enough to the threat to risk shooting in a loaded plane, the AM was close enough to be killed in a bomb explosion. Go ahead and try to tackle him first.

If the person was a bomber, why did he not set off the bomb during the preceding hours of flight? why wait until the plane was landed and at the terminal?

As was pointed out, why shoot to kill as first option, ON THE GROUND, given the extreme security of passenger scanning that would have very probably prevented a passenger from boarding with a bomb?

What we will hear now is unending CYA from the dubya (already started) and the AM, that the AMs and their procedures are perfect and beyond reproach.

AMs are a without doubt key dissuader of attacks on air travel (I'm more doubtful that they could really stop a bomb or hijacking), but that doesn't excuse trigger happiness nor shield them from review.

[E20]

That's a good way to get other people killed. Nice job.

Hands and legs are too hard to hit. That's why people are trained to shoot CENTER OF MASS. You protect yourself AND you better protect innocent bystanders.

Shooting guns out of people's hands and running shots into someone's legs are nothing more than Hollywood bullshit.
I think Air Marshalls are trained in a variety ways to shoot a gun and where to aim. And if Airport security is so good, they should have known he had a bomb or not.

[cherylsteele]

"It's only been one day, and already people are criticizing the Marshals."

In an open society, the govt's killing of any person must not be a secret, and must be open to review. The timing of the review, sooner or later, is never questionable. It's an extremely healthy process that will very probably clarify tons of dark corners and ambiguities in the AM's rule book.

I thought all you right-wing, cowboy, law-n-order gun nuts lived by "shoot first, ask questions later"? Well, you got your "shoot first", now comes the "questions later", so STFU and let the questions be posed and answered.

This guy was running down the aisle. Shooting him in the body where a bomb would to be seems counter-productive, if the shot would have set off the bomb, in the confines of the plane, rather than waiting until he ran through the boarding tunnel and into the more open, perhaps less densely peopled area of the terminal.

How about tackling him first? If the AM was close enough to the threat to risk shooting in a loaded plane, the AM was close enough to be killed in a bomb explosion. Go ahead and try to tackle him first.

If the person was a bomber, why did he not set off the bomb during the preceding hours of flight? why wait until the plane was landed and at the terminal?

As was pointed out, why shoot to kill as first option, ON THE GROUND, given the extreme security of passenger scanning that would have very probably prevented a passenger from boarding with a bomb?

What we will hear now is unending CYA from the dubya (already started) and the AM, that the AMs and their procedures are perfect and beyond reproach.

AMs are a without doubt key dissuader of attacks on air travel (I'm more doubtful that they could really stop a bomb or hijacking), but that doesn't excuse trigger happiness nor shield them from review.
What if he did have a bomb and the marshalls had not shot him? He would've set off the bomb and we would have had an ever bigger tragedy on our hands. Then you would be saying just the opposite like why didn't they kill him when they had a chance. I am sorry one person died but better that one than 80-100 people on the flight.

At the moment we are hearingfrom different sources and some seem to be contradicting themselves as to what transpired. The incident happened so fast I think msny of the eyewitness timelines and what actually happened and what time will change. That is when a conclusion should be

[boutons]

The context I gave above is not second-guessing armchair.

The passenger came through security in the airport of origin, on an AA flt destined for the USA. (I wonder if the AMs make any evaluations of security screening as they see it as screened passengers?)

The passenger supposedly first got a bomb thru security, then didn't set the bomb off in flight, not on descent, and not upon landing.
If he had a bomb, what was he waiting for?

Lotsa whatifs.

The "too hard to shoot in the legs" idea won't apply if it turns out the passenger was shot in the even-harder-to-hit head.

[Nbadan]

I think Air Marshalls are trained in a variety ways to shoot a gun and where to aim. And if Airport security is so good, they should have known he had a bomb or not.

It's my understanding that Air Marshalls are only trained to fire their weapons in a mortal matter. Point blank center on mass has the best chance of taking the bad guy out. In many cases, people that are totally whacked out (drugs, etc) will still keep going even after several hits. I agree the story is way out there. This is a case for also having a TASER or other non-lethal weapon. Did the Air-Marshalls possibly over-react? maybe. Did they have reasonable belief he possibly had a bomb? possibly. Could it been handled differently? who knows.

The officers only have fractions of a second to think and react. The suspects actions might have telegraphed he had something in the carry on, however unlikely. Some reports have him going for something inside the bag. He then stopped and turned on the officers. That's a bad thing to do, especially if your not thinking right or responding to verbal commands. Remember this happened on the jet way outside the plane. Right now we can only speculate. I would like to see the autopsy results. I'm willing to bet this entire incident took place in 7 feet or less and thats pretty damn close.

[ThugJohnson]

innocent people die every fucking day. don't RUN on a fucking airline like an idiot and you won't have to worry. NEXT!

[travis2]

I think Air Marshalls are trained in a variety ways to shoot a gun and where to aim. And if Airport security is so good, they should have known he had a bomb or not.

That's right, they're trained where to aim. CENTER OF MASS.

You NEVER NEVER train to go for the hand or the leg or something like that. Too hard to hit. Especially in a fast-moving, split-second situation like that.

In fact, the training makes a POINT of that.

As to the security question you posed...that isn't germaine to whether or not the air marshal acted properly.

[cherylsteele]

The context I gave above is not second-guessing armchair.

The passenger came through security in the airport of origin, on an AA flt destined for the USA. (I wonder if the AMs make any evaluations of security screening as they see it as screened passengers?)

The passenger supposedly first got a bomb thru security, then didn't set the bomb off in flight, not on descent, and not upon landing.
If he had a bomb, what was he waiting for?

.
How do you know whether or not he had a bomb....would you be willing to risk 80-100 unecessarily when something could have been done. The marshalls did the right thing given the circumstances they had.

You have no idea what the guy may have been thinking.

[gtownspur]

but he said he's not second guessing armchair.