Anyone else is against Spurs giving up Harper for 31 years (in 2025) Giannis Antetokounmpo?

[spursparker9]

Giannis will be 31 years old this December with no jumper. How long can he still dominate with his physical attributes?

I rather take a chance with Castle-Fox-Harper on the court concurrently. Screw SF-SG-PG conventional positions. Just put 3 of them and it can still work. Or rotate them so that there is always an elite shot creator at all times.

[venitian navigator]

Agree

[spursparker9]

I don't usually place much hope on the rumor involving Spurs and superstar player...

But the Fox trade has changed my mind. With Wemby around, all rumor involving trade with superstar player and their reported interest in playing for Spurs definitely has some truth to it.

Even the reportedly consensus #1 pick for 2026 draft has said that he would like to play with Wemby after that 2 games in France.

[DAF86]

Yeah, I don't think I would do it, tbh.

But, if they Do do it, I would go all in and get Durant too.

[baseline bum]

My first thought was go out and get Giannis with that #2 pick, but after letting that initial excitement die off and looking closer it seems like paying him 35% supermax on the wrong side of 30 would probably wreck the team's cap while also turning Victor into a second option when he should be developed as option #1. The thought of having three legit initiators in Harper/Fox/Castle with a finisher like Victor is fucking terrifying.

[kht]

Standing pat... we'd also have a Walmart professional scorer and sniper in Vassell in the corner. Pick #14 in my opinion should be a high-floor ready prospect now or moved for a veteran for a position we need.

[LeBowen]

0-13 poll results. :lol

An overlooked issue with a potential Giannis trade is that we'd need to make a couple more trades for legit role players. We'd use most of our assets and be stuck with that roster, for better or worse.
If we were already a playoff team that needs more, fine. But it's too early, tbh. Can't expect to win it all because you have Giannis and a bunch of players with no experience, Barnes aside. Even Fox hasn't achieve anything.
Every year without a ring with Giannis on the roster would be a failure.

[BacktoBasics]

0-13 poll results. :lol

An overlooked issue with a potential Giannis trade is that we'd need to make a couple more trades for legit role players. We'd use most of our assets and be stuck with that roster, for better or worse.
If we were already a playoff team that needs more, fine. But it's too early, tbh. Can't expect to win it all because you have Giannis and a bunch of players with no experience, Barnes aside. Even Fox hasn't achieve anything.
Every year without a ring with Giannis on the roster would be a failure.

Reddit GM’s don’t get this. Especially Bucks fans. They want an entirely overhauled roster plus 5 future 1sts.

I honestly don’t think any team is going to go that deep for him.

I could see 2 above average role players and 3 picks getting it done. I’d rather keep our assets.

[RC_Drunkford]

it's too early to make that trade. You trade for Giannis to get you over the hump, not when you've missed the postseason for 6 years straight. Spurs should absolutely play the long game here.

In hindsight we were all happy that we didn't trade Parker for Kidd after 03

[vy65]

OP has a tenuous grasp on the English language.

[Davidicus]

Hidden costs ESPN and other outlets don’t want to talk about

- less development for Victor. There’s only one ball, less touches. Same for Castle.
- less low-cost pieces through the draft, on Victors timeline. Barring the floor dropping out for Giannis demand, that includes no Harper.
- less cap space for FAs
- less spacing and/or will push Victor more towards the 3P line
- we have a new coach for the 1st time in 3 decades. That’s a lot of change to the Spurs culture in a few months

These costs would be completely stomach-able if Giannis was 25. But you trade the farm for him now, the stopwatch immediately starts and we have a few years to win a chip or face the consequences after.

[Guru of Nothing]

My first thought was go out and get Giannis with that #2 pick, but after letting that initial excitement die off and looking closer it seems like paying him 35% supermax on the wrong side of 30 would probably wreck the team's cap while also turning Victor into a second option when he should be developed as option #1. The thought of having three legit initiators in Harper/Fox/Castle with a finisher like Victor is fucking terrifying.

My thoughts followed the same arc and I'm all in on Harper right now, by a wide margin I think. It's a bit of a stretch, but something about Ron Harper's son coming to the Spurs to be Wemby's Pippen is appealing. Let's roll out our finest red carpet and welcome him; and bring Ron Sr into the picture too. If nothing else, he can help fill one of the many empty seats I see every home game.

None of us wants to see Wemby become Wemby the GM in the style of LeBron, but when it comes to how to use this #2 pick, if Wemby has a strong opinion (that does not involve purging the cupboard of assets) then I think it should be heavily weighted. I mean if Wemby wants Harper, there's not a lot to process on the matter, is there?

[itzsoweezee]

I’m in favor of the spurs not fielding a roster of numerous guards, all with no shooting, and no size at the other positions (other than wemby). Even if they don’t trade for Giannis, this team needs multiple moves in the offseason, or else it’s just running back a dysfunctional lineup

[PopTheGOAT]

I’m in favor of the spurs not fielding a roster of numerous guards, all with no shooting, and no size at the other positions (other than wemby). Even if they don’t trade for Giannis, this team needs multiple moves in the offseason, or else it’s just running back a dysfunctional lineup
We have no idea if the lineup is dysfunctional. Wemby has only played 117 NBA games, Fox has only played 18 games with the Spurs. Castle has played one season. A guard rotation of Fox, Castle, Harper could be amazing. 2 on the floor at all times. If there’s an injury at guard, we’re still solid. We will need shooting, but we target team fits in FA to fill that need.

We’re still very much in the “figuring it out” phase. You take the BPA in Harper and figure it out later.

[BatManu20]

Giannis would cost a lot more than just the #2 pick. Stick with the young guns and pocket your draft capital.

[daslicer]

My thoughts followed the same arc and I'm all in on Harper right now, by a wide margin I think. It's a bit of a stretch, but something about Ron Harper's son coming to the Spurs to be Wemby's Pippen is appealing. Let's roll out our finest red carpet and welcome him; and bring Ron Sr into the picture too. If nothing else, he can help fill one of the many empty seats I see every home game.

None of us wants to see Wemby become Wemby the GM in the style of LeBron, but when it comes to how to use this #2 pick, if Wemby has a strong opinion (that does not involve purging the cupboard of assets) then I think it should be heavily weighted. I mean if Wemby wants Harper, there's not a lot to process on the matter, is there?

Ron Harper Sr has always been a Spurs hater. It's one of the frustrating things I hate about this situation is how Ron is anti-Spurs but the Spurs may end up drafting his son which makes it an awkward situation.

[Guru of Nothing]

Ron Harper Sr has always been a Spurs hater. It's one of the frustrating things I hate about this situation is how Ron is anti-Spurs but the Spurs may end up drafting his son which makes it an awkward situation.

Well, bring him in and shower him with kindness. If he rejects it, it's his loss.

[itzsoweezee]

We have no idea if the lineup is dysfunctional. Wemby has only played 117 NBA games, Fox has only played 18 games with the Spurs. Castle has played one season. A guard rotation of Fox, Castle, Harper could be amazing. 2 on the floor at all times. If there’s an injury at guard, we’re still solid. We will need shooting, but we target team fits in FA to fill that need.

We’re still very much in the “figuring it out” phase. You take the BPA in Harper and figure it out later.


When you have a top 5 player on a rookie contract, you don't just figure it out later. Very few opportunities like this ever come up for any franchise.

Regardless, here are the #2 picks over the last 10 years:

D'Angelo Russell
Brandon Ingram
Lonzo Ball
Marvin Bagley III
Ja Morant
James Wiseman
Jalen Green
Chet Holmgren
Brandon Miller
Alex Sarr


I'm taking the gamble of a 31 year old Giannis over a mystery box of a #2 pick 100% of the time. It's not even a close question.

The only question is how much should the Spurs should be willing to give up in addition to the #2 pick.

[LeBowen]

here are the #2 picks over the last 10 years:

And here are the top5 playmaking guards, at least 6'4, over the last 10 years:
Castle
Cade
Ant
Lamelo
RJ Barrett
Luka
Lonzo

As you can see, 6'4-6'6 playmakers are a very safe bet if they're highly rated and picked in top5.
I'm not sure if I should've even included RJ, but people initially thought he could be a creator.
Lonzo is the worst one of the bunch and the only failure, but he was picked so high only because of his father's incredible marketing team.


I'm taking the gamble of a 31 year old Giannis over a mystery box of a #2 pick 100% of the time. It's not even a close question.

Because it's not even a question.


The only question is how much should the Spurs should be willing to give up in addition to the #2 pick.

This is the question.
Giannis is a loyal guy and won't tank his value too much.
He's the second best player in the league and we'd have to give up a lot.
But not only that, we'd have to be a legit title contender right away. Meaning we'd have to make a couple more trades for elite shooters.
Then we'd be left with nothing.

Would it be worth it for a couple of rings? Probably. But there are too many parts and too many things that could go wrong.
OKC should think way harder about the same question if they don't win this year because their superstar and supporting cast are ready, with Williams and Chet being the perfect bargaining chips.

[spurs1990]

Jokic may want out after his other guys went 1-15 in the 4th last night. San Antonio should try to pry him out of Denver.

[daslicer]

Well, bring him in and shower him with kindness. If he rejects it, it's his loss.

I agree in the sense that you draft Dylan if he is actually the most talented player available at number 2 regardless of how stupid his dad is.

[itzsoweezee]

And here are the top5 playmaking guards, at least 6'4, over the last 10 years:
Castle
Cade
Ant
Lamelo
RJ Barrett
Luka
Lonzo

As you can see, 6'4-6'6 playmakers are a very safe bet if they're highly rated and picked in top5.
I'm not sure if I should've even included RJ, but people initially thought he could be a creator.
Lonzo is the worst one of the bunch and the only failure, but he was picked so high only because of his father's incredible marketing team.


Cade and Ant were clearly the best talent in their drafts. So was Luka, even though incompetent teams skipped over him. I would still take Giannis over any of those guys.



Because it's not even a question.


That is literally the question everyone is voting on in this poll



Giannis is a loyal guy and won't tank his value too much.
He's the second best player in the league and we'd have to give up a lot.
But not only that, we'd have to be a legit title contender right away. Meaning we'd have to make a couple more trades for elite shooters.
Then we'd be left with nothing.

Would it be worth it for a couple of rings? Probably. But there are too many parts and too many things that could go wrong.
OKC should think way harder about the same question if they don't win this year because their superstar and supporting cast are ready, with Williams and Chet being the perfect bargaining chips.


A lot of assumptions doing the heavy lifting here. Regardless, I'd take the risk because Wemby's very favorable contract makes even a poor outcome under the Giannis scenario bearable vs. developing organically to finally become contenders 3 or 4 years down the road, which itself carries risk.

[LeBowen]

Cade and Ant were clearly the best talent in their drafts. So was Luka, even though incompetent teams skipped over him.

Harper would've been a tier above everyone in last year's draft and he'd be in serious consideration for first pick in 2020, 2021 and 2022 drafts.
Ant wasn't seen as the clear first pick, there were a lot of concerns about his work ethic which were obviously wrong and his college stats were worse than Harper's. Also didn't make the tournament.
Luka was the best prospect since AD, clearly better than Zion, but NBA scouts went back to the 80s and didn't trust an unathletic European white boy.


I would still take Giannis over any of those guys.

That's why I said it's not even a question because Giannis is a tier above. It's not a direct comparison. It's Harper++ or Giannis. Not just a straight up trade.


A lot of assumptions doing the heavy lifting here. Regardless, I'd take the risk because Wemby's very favorable contract makes even a poor outcome under the Giannis scenario bearable vs. developing organically to finally become contenders 3 or 4 years down the road, which itself carries risk.

Everything is an assumption because we don't know shit. We've barely seen Fox play and he had a fucked up finger on his shooting hand. Wemby went down with a potential career ending issue.
Castle was just a rookie and the rest of the roster are proven scrubs other than veteran Barnes who's just a solid role player.

[itzsoweezee]

Everything is an assumption because we don't know shit. We've barely seen Fox play and he had a fucked up finger on his shooting hand. Wemby went down with a potential career ending issue.
Castle was just a rookie and the rest of the roster are proven scrubs other than veteran Barnes who's just a solid role player.

Yes. That is why I would bet on the surest thing out of any route the Spurs can go -- team up the generational superstar with the other generational superstar. There is no better bet than Giannis + Wemby is going to be really fucking good. I'll take that over any other potential outcome.

[LeBowen]

Yes. That is why I would bet on the surest thing out of any route the Spurs can go -- team up the generational superstar with the other generational superstar. There is no better bet than Giannis + Wemby is going to be really fucking good. I'll take that over any other potential outcome.

For the sake of discussion, I'll go with it.
What would be your offer?
My best offer would be #2, '27 ATL, '29 SAS, '31 SAS/MIN and whoever they want other than Fox/Castle/Wemby.
The same offer I would've made before the lottery, just with Castle instead of #2. I wouldn't give up both Castle and #2, they can have one of the two.

Then what?
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champ
Giannis/Mamu
Wemby/?

With no tradeable picks left since '25, '27, '29, '31 would've been gone.

[rascal]

Yes. That is why I would bet on the surest thing out of any route the Spurs can go -- team up the generational superstar with the other generational superstar. There is no better bet than Giannis + Wemby is going to be really fucking good. I'll take that over any other potential outcome.

Be patient,

Spurs don't like the all chips in approach to roster building. Mil won't be trading Giannis for scraps, it's going to be costly.

Spurs are winning championships if they stay the course and that is by not trading Harper. No guarantee by adding Giannis it's a sure title anyways. Spurs are going to have to off load Harper and maybe even Castle and draft picks and will still have roster flaws with less flexibility to add more talent.

[mando6599]

Nope to getting Giannis for me. I'd rather roll with D. Harper and company. Stay young and piecemeal veterans around this core for years to come.

[Mal]

I am not against it, but cost will be much higher than #2 and matching salaries.

[Guru of Nothing]

It feels like we can go one of two directions:

Door #1 - Trade for Giannis and struggle with depth like Denver. Have a good shot at a ring with, but would need to thead the needle with regards to overall health.
Door #2- Draft and develop talent and have a lot of depth, like OKC.
Door #3 - I don't see a door #3, yet.

Give me door number two. Without overriding persuasion, I think I'm locked in on this choice ... somebody pass this alongto PATFO. Thanks

[scott]

If we could trade #2 straight up for Giannis, I would do that... but that's not going to happen, so the question has to be taken in context, like LeBowen has been pointing out.

At the end of the day, the Spurs FO simply does not have the testicular fortitude to play in the game of a bidding war for Giannis. Unless he does a Fox and specifically requests San Antonio, the Spurs are going to quickly blush at the price tag and move along their merry way. But Giannis still has 3/175 coming his way. He can't play the same card Fox did that he simply won't extend anywhere but his preferred destination. I also don't think Giannis is interested in screwing the Bucks over. He's very likely to work with MIL to get them the best possible return and get him to a place he likes.

Brian Wright is doing a great job, but this is a poker table with stakes higher than he likes to play at.

[Ice009]

Ron Harper Sr has always been a Spurs hater. It's one of the frustrating things I hate about this situation is how Ron is anti-Spurs but the Spurs may end up drafting his son which makes it an awkward situation.

Wow. Really? What sort of stuff has he said about the Spurs? Is it anything recent or does it go back years? Maybe he changes his tune with Victor here and a chance for his son to be part of something great.

[intlspurshk]

If SPURS drafts Harper and with Wemby, Fox, and Castle on the team, SPURS will become a playoff team and will start attracting some veterans to join for cheap contract like Finley in the past.

[rascal]

Wow. Really? What sort of stuff has he said about the Spurs? Is it anything recent or does it go back years? Maybe he changes his tune with Victor here and a chance for his son to be part of something great.

I haven't seen anything where he said he hates the Spurs.

[spurraider21]

giannis is going to cost way more than just #2

if we were talking a typical all-nba caliber player, it would be harper and then some. but we are talking a perennial MVP level, two-way player with some dominant postseason and finals play. its going to cost a very uncomfortable amount, and frankly he warrants that type of return. but i dont think its worth it for us at the moment.

[spurs10]

Harper just turned 19 and he's already very good. We will regret not taking him. Add a strong 4/5 and we have a team.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

If SPURS drafts Harper and with Wemby, Fox, and Castle on the team, SPURS will become a playoff team and will start attracting some veterans to join for cheap contract like Finley in the past.

I wouldn't count on this. If it happens, its gravy.

Spurs in the unique position to somewhat dominate the scoring guard market by having 3 PGs on the floor at the same time. While none of them can really shoot, an offense can always be developed to capitalize on multiple options going toward the basket. That only works with Wemby and [insert name of 3-D wing here]. This is a crucial draft and FA period this year. Giannis really shouldn't be a consideration w/ his contract, age and lack of outside shooting but moving on from KJ and perhaps Devin for bigger defenders is needed.

Position less basketball only works with shooters and defenders.

[daslicer]

Wow. Really? What sort of stuff has he said about the Spurs? Is it anything recent or does it go back years? Maybe he changes his tune with Victor here and a chance for his son to be part of something great.

He said recently like a month ago the '98 bulls would have swept or beaten the '99 Spurs in 5 games. He also argued several years ago about Duncan not being the GOAT PF after Duncan retired. Even recently like a day ago someone tweeted out to him about Dylan possibly getting drafted by the Spurs and he responded by saying something like it's not set it in stone yet. His dad is a hater, and I don't know why but that is the case from what I gather.

[itzsoweezee]

For the sake of discussion, I'll go with it.
What would be your offer?
My best offer would be #2, '27 ATL, '29 SAS, '31 SAS/MIN and whoever they want other than Fox/Castle/Wemby.
The same offer I would've made before the lottery, just with Castle instead of #2. I wouldn't give up both Castle and #2, they can have one of the two.

Then what?
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champ
Giannis/Mamu
Wemby/?

With no tradeable picks left since '25, '27, '29, '31 would've been gone.

I’d offer 2025 #2 & #14 and some combination of Vassell, Keldon, and Sochan. That’s up to four lottery picks. If MLW wants more, I might reconsider.

[Ice009]

He said recently like a month ago the '98 bulls would have swept or beaten the '99 Spurs in 5 games. He also argued several years ago about Duncan not being the GOAT PF after Duncan retired. Even recently like a day ago someone tweeted out to him about Dylan possibly getting drafted by the Spurs and he responded by saying something like it's not set it in stone yet. His dad is a hater, and I don't know why but that is the case from what I gather.

Yeah, OK, darn. I happen to think the '99 Spurs would have beaten them. Not sure what you guys think?

Definitely sounds like a hater, especially after saying TD isn't GOAT PF if he mentioned it shortly after Tim retired. Sounds like he was trying to take the shine off. Yeah, I don't like the guy already from the looks of it.

[Arguendo]

Giannis would cost a lot more than just the #2 pick. Stick with the young guns and pocket your draft capital.
Yup and they'd prolly want expirings (not Vassell or Keldon), need to match to 90% so gotta come up with $48.7M in salary going back, so Barnes + '22 draft expirings/RFAs ($7.1+4.96 + 4.73= $16.8M) + #2 $$$ $12.37M= $48.16M + either Champ or a min. That's a lot of roster spots to replace while f-ing your cap and asset stockpile.
Different story if they'd want Fox or Vassell, but not sure they would and still the cost is huge and Hou or someone may bid up the price.

FWIW Giannis is owed $175M over the next 3 years, Vassell is owed $78.65M over 3 (plus $27M for a 4th), Keldon is owed $35M over 2. If they do Vassell and Keldon + picks Giannis only costs you about $20M more in '26, $24M in '27, but like $38M more than Vassell in '28. Plus all your good assets + Wemby development + potential FA/trade targets.

Stick with the development program, too early to go hunting for wrong side of 30 hired guns.

[Chillen]

Trade for Durant we would likely be able to hold onto the #2 pick and Fox and Castle. Suns will want mainly draft picks for KD and Vassell/Barnes.

[Guru of Nothing]

Once you get past the Harper pick, Spurs draft capital starts to fade a little. Don't get me wrong, as a Spurs fan I love what we have, but from Milwaukee's perspective, I'd be looking at the other picks we throw at them as 15-20, at best (or 14th obviously, if the 2025 ATL pick were to go).

[Guru of Nothing]

Trade for Durant we would likely be able to hold onto the #2 pick and Fox and Castle. Suns will want mainly draft picks for KD and Vassell/Barnes.

I'm leery of Durant. Think he would be a great fit, but I feel like whoever gets him is going to overpay. Maybe two years from now, if his contract demands align with his 39 year old body, he might be a great fit to transition to elite role player - and Wemby gets to play alongside one of his idols.

[daslicer]

Yeah, OK, darn. I happen to think the '99 Spurs would have beaten them. Not sure what you guys think?

Definitely sounds like a hater, especially after saying TD isn't GOAT PF if he mentioned it shortly after Tim retired. Sounds like he was trying to take the shine off. Yeah, I don't like the guy already from the looks of it.

He said immediately on the day Duncan retired that he wasn't the GOAT PF and I believe he said Karl Malone was instead the GOAT PF. He got into a debate with some former player on that day. I get him believing the bulls would beat the Spurs in '99 even though I don't agree with him since most players are cocky about their championship teams and think they could never lose but the fact he said the Spurs would get swept or lose in 5 to the Bulls was stupid. '99 Spurs were better than any team the Bulls faced during their second 3 peat including the Pacers and Jazz who were the two toughest teams they faced and neither series ended in 4 or 5 games.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/ron-harper-thinks-spurs-couldnt-have-beaten-bulls-in-the-1999-nba-finals

[rascal]

.

[PopTheGOAT]

For the sake of discussion, I'll go with it.
What would be your offer?
My best offer would be #2, '27 ATL, '29 SAS, '31 SAS/MIN and whoever they want other than Fox/Castle/Wemby.
The same offer I would've made before the lottery, just with Castle instead of #2. I wouldn't give up both Castle and #2, they can have one of the two.


Then what?
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champ
Giannis/Mamu
Wemby/?

With no tradeable picks left since '25, '27, '29, '31 would've been gone.

Exactly. It’s not happening. What if something happens to one of our guys after the trade? No titles and no future. I know you assume health when going for a chip, but I think we need to show a little patience. We got gifted a generational talent and pieces to grow with him. Don’t f with that.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd rather have the three guards, Victor at 4, and Sochan camping in the paint for offensive rebounds. That said, I think they can maybe make a run for Steven Adams.

[Ice009]

I'd rather have the three guards, Victor at 4, and Sochan camping in the paint for offensive rebounds. That said, I think they can maybe make a run for Steven Adams.

Steven Adams is definitely the guy I want. His screens would be awesome for the guards.

[exstatic]

I’m in favor of the spurs not fielding a roster of numerous guards, all with no shooting, and no size at the other positions (other than wemby). Even if they don’t trade for Giannis, this team needs multiple moves in the offseason, or else it’s just running back a dysfunctional lineup

Both Fox and Harper are good off the catch, and this team generates good open looks.

[Obstructed_View]

Steven Adams is definitely the guy I want. His screens would be awesome for the guards.

Yeah, I'd have been willing to get him at his last ridiculous contract a couple of years ago.

[Obstructed_View]

Both Fox and Harper are good off the catch, and this team generates good open looks.

Castle isn't yet consistent, but his form is great, and he shoots with confidence. He has a clutch gene as well. I will not be surprised if he makes a big improvement from his spots this fall.

[spurraider21]

adams as a backup C would be quite nice. i dont know what type of pay he'd be looking for. he's about to turn 32 but looked good enough this year

[thOOdee]

Straight up, of course they should trade.

[Ice009]

I really would like to see Steph work on a good mid-range jump shot as well as three point shot. I think that can really help unlock his game even more.


adams as a backup C would be quite nice. i dont know what type of pay he'd be looking for. he's about to turn 32 but looked good enough this year

Yeah, I'm wondering what sort of cash he'd be after.

[Chucho]

If we can get Giannis at a reasonably fair price, I say we swing for the fences.

Building slowly isn't working and I get the fact we don't really know what we have so far as team chemistry and aptitude, but we're in Year 3 with Wemby and he wants to win.

The sand moves faster in that hour glass and we need to placate it.

Another middling year sniffing fingers while being a borderline play-in seed and collecting 2nd round picks and swaps could break the camel's back.

If not Giannis, we need to make an impact this offseason so we're not not just hovering around the 8-10 seeds.

If we dont take a leap forward this year, we take a massive step back in having Wemby in our future.

[dn0774]

For the sake of discussion, I'll go with it.
What would be your offer?
My best offer would be #2, '27 ATL, '29 SAS, '31 SAS/MIN and whoever they want other than Fox/Castle/Wemby.
The same offer I would've made before the lottery, just with Castle instead of #2. I wouldn't give up both Castle and #2, they can have one of the two.

Then what?
Fox/?
Castle/?
Barnes/Champ
Giannis/Mamu
Wemby/?

With no tradeable picks left since '25, '27, '29, '31 would've been gone.

Completely pot committed with major holes on the roster and no way to fix them. Assuming decent health that roster still probably brute forces it to 57 wins and has a path to the title, albeit not the front runner.

[dn0774]

If we can get Giannis at a reasonably fair price, I say we swing for the fences.

Building slowly isn't working and I get the fact we don't really know what we have so far as team chemistry and aptitude, but we're in Year 3 with Wemby and he wants to win.

The sand moves faster in that hour glass and we need to placate it.

Another middling year sniffing fingers while being a borderline play-in seed and collecting 2nd round picks and swaps could break the camel's back.

If not Giannis, we need to make an impact this offseason so we're not not just hovering around the 8-10 seeds.

If we dont take a leap forward this year, we take a massive step back in having Wemby in our future.

I would push back a little on that, we just improved 12 wins despite the season from hell injury wise.

[BackHome]

If we can get Giannis at a reasonably fair price, I say we swing for the fences.

Building slowly isn't working and I get the fact we don't really know what we have so far as team chemistry and aptitude, but we're in Year 3 with Wemby and he wants to win.

The sand moves faster in that hour glass and we need to placate it.

Another middling year sniffing fingers while being a borderline play-in seed and collecting 2nd round picks and swaps could break the camel's back.

If not Giannis, we need to make an impact this offseason so we're not not just hovering around the 8-10 seeds.

If we dont take a leap forward this year, we take a massive step back in having Wemby in our future.

Dude needs to play if he wants to win - He also needs to be in better condition if he wants to win as he was not good on back to backs and that was before his medical issue. I don’t know if you have watched any of the playoffs going in but it is much more physical than regular season. He is going to have to come in much more stronger and in better condition ir he won’t survive a 7 game Playoff series

[RC_Drunkford]

If we can get Giannis at a reasonably fair price, I say we swing for the fences.

Building slowly isn't working and I get the fact we don't really know what we have so far as team chemistry and aptitude, but we're in Year 3 with Wemby and he wants to win.

The sand moves faster in that hour glass and we need to placate it.

Another middling year sniffing fingers while being a borderline play-in seed and collecting 2nd round picks and swaps could break the camel's back.

If not Giannis, we need to make an impact this offseason so we're not not just hovering around the 8-10 seeds.

If we dont take a leap forward this year, we take a massive step back in having Wemby in our future.

there is no breaking the camel's back in year 3. This is a step by step process. You don't go from being one of the worst teams in the league to the finals the next year.

Year 1: tank
Year 2: borderline play-in team
Year 3: playoffs, probably losing in the first round
Year 4 is where you start the title chase, but probably don't make it either. You get to the conference semis or conference finals and lose. Then you'll know which pieces to add to get you over the hump.

[Rosewood]

The more I look into Harper, the less I want to trade him.

if it were the pick and Vassell for Giannis straight up - of course pull the trigger. But 4 picks including Harper, plus Castle, Sochan, etc. I am out on that. We’ve seen teams gut their bench and youth to go with a Big 3 several times the last few years and it has never worked. Fuck that.

[tbdog]

What was AD package? Ball and Ingram plus 3 picks, including number 4 in the draft? Ball was drsfted number 2 and Ingram was up there as well. So I assume Bucks want something equivalent? The one difference is matching salary. Lakers could assorb AD salary which was 28 mil by only sending out 18mil. The bucks would want to get under the tax during the offseason and would prefer taking back as least as possible

So a comparison deal would be number 2 plus 2 more picks. Castle = Ball, Vassell = Ingram, Branham = Hart.

Now AD was 25 at the time of the trade and Giannis will be 30 or 31. So that needs to be taken into account.

[RC_Drunkford]

What was AD package? Ball and Ingram plus 3 picks, including number 4 in the draft? Ball was drsfted number 2 and Ingram was up there as well. So I assume Bucks want something equivalent? The one difference is matching salary. Lakers could assorb AD salary which was 28 mil by only sending out 18mil. The bucks would want to get under the tax during the offseason and would prefer taking back as least as possible

So a comparison deal would be number 2 plus 2 more picks. Castle = Ball, Vassell = Ingram, Branham = Hart.

Now AD was 25 at the time of the trade and Giannis will be 30 or 31. So that needs to be taken into account.

AD tanked his trade value, cause he only wanted the Lakers and he's not the player Giannis is.

[OldMan88]

Harper has a sick little hesitation move he uses, just like Castle does. Really throws the defenders timing into the shithole.

[rascal]

If we can get Giannis at a reasonably fair price, I say we swing for the fences.

Building slowly isn't working and I get the fact we don't really know what we have so far as team chemistry and aptitude, but we're in Year 3 with Wemby and he wants to win.

The sand moves faster in that hour glass and we need to placate it.

Another middling year sniffing fingers while being a borderline play-in seed and collecting 2nd round picks and swaps could break the camel's back.

If not Giannis, we need to make an impact this offseason so we're not not just hovering around the 8-10 seeds.

If we dont take a leap forward this year, we take a massive step back in having Wemby in our future.

Building slowly "through the draft" is really working well.
Wemby then the next year Castle and the Fox trade which fell in their lap and now Harper and whoever else at #14 and what other moves this summer. Spurs will be a playoff team next year barring injuries.

There is no need to break up the progress and trajectory the Spurs are on for a quick shortcut(going for Giannis). The Spurs are going to get there (championships) while maintaining the ability to build a long term dynasty with their home grown draft picks.

That's how they built their previous dynasty and I don't see them changing what has worked in the past for an all in move.

[Chucho]

Building slowly "through the draft" is really working well.
Wemby then the next year Castle and the Fox trade which fell in their lap and now Harper and whoever else at #14 and what other moves this summer. Spurs will be a playoff team next year barring injuries.

There is no need to break up the progress and trajectory the Spurs are on for a quick shortcut(going for Giannis). The Spurs are going to get there (championships) while maintaining the ability to build a long term dynasty with their home grown draft picks.

That's how they built their previous dynasty and I don't see them changing what has worked in the past for an all in move.

No. They built their dynasty by drafting Tim Duncan, a generational player. We were an instant contender in 1 season and would have been contending with or without Tony and Manu, the only real draft successes we had post Duncan through the end of the dynasty.

Wemby is a generational player, but he's also a modern-era player, which means he doesn't care about team-loyalty, he wants to win and we need to placate to that. How many franchise players up and leave when they don't feel the team is placating them? Too many.

[poopbox]

Building slowly "through the draft" is really working well.
Wemby then the next year Castle and the Fox trade which fell in their lap and now Harper and whoever else at #14 and what other moves this summer. Spurs will be a playoff team next year barring injuries.

There is no need to break up the progress and trajectory the Spurs are on for a quick shortcut(going for Giannis). The Spurs are going to get there (championships) while maintaining the ability to build a long term dynasty with their home grown draft picks.

That's how they built their previous dynasty and I don't see them changing what has worked in the past for an all in move.

What? :lol

Spurs have had a losing record for 6 straight years :lol

Do you want me to count all the teams in the nba who have had a losing records for 6 straight years or longer? It won't be hard. It's literally only 2 teams. The Spurs and the Wizards. :lol

I don't know how you turn 6 straight years of losing into "really working well".

In the end even Gregg with two g's couldn't survive a 6th straight losing season and had to be replaced.

[KobesAchilles]

What? :lol

Spurs have had a losing record for 6 straight years :lol

Do you want me to count all the teams in the nba who have had a losing records for 6 straight years or longer? It won't be hard. It's literally only 2 teams. The Spurs and the Wizards. :lol

I don't know how you turn 6 straight years of losing into "really working well".

In the end even Gregg with two g's couldn't survive a 6th straight losing season and had to be replaced.
These people are brainwashed into thinking we need to take things slowly while losing. Like you can’t take things slowly and be a playoff team. Next year it’s going to be well we made the play-in so that’s progress. Take things slowly. Bc we aren’t making the playoffs with our roster currently constructed even if we add Harper in the draft. Our shitty 3 of Vassell, KJ, and Sochan will ensure that.

There are so many examples of young teams making the playoffs that are just as young or right around as old as the Spurs and yet we are all about slow “progress.” Cavs are young. Thunder are young. Houston is young. Detroit in young. Orlando is young. Indy is young. Memphis is young. Minnesota is young. I’m tired of using “we are a young team” as an excuse. This is their put up or shut up year. And if we don’t have a top 5 record next year in the West then I’d consider it a failure. If we don’t even have a top 8 record then it’s categorically a failure. And if we again don’t make the play-in then I want an entire fucking roster and coaching reconstruction.

[LeBowen]

These people are brainwashed into thinking we need to take things slowly while losing. Like you can’t take things slowly and be a playoff team. Next year it’s going to be well we made the play-in so that’s progress. Take things slowly. Bc we aren’t making the playoffs with our roster currently constructed even if we add Harper in the draft. Our shitty 3 of Vassell, KJ, and Sochan will ensure that.

There are so many examples of young teams making the playoffs that are just as young or right around as old as the Spurs and yet we are all about slow “progress.” Cavs are young. Thunder are young. Houston is young. Detroit in young. Orlando is young. Indy is young. Memphis is young. Minnesota is young. I’m tired of using “we are a young team” as an excuse. This is their put up or shut up year. And if we don’t have a top 5 record next year in the West then I’d consider it a failure. If we don’t even have a top 8 record then it’s categorically a failure. And if we again don’t make the play-in then I want an entire fucking roster and coaching reconstruction.

As much of a hater I am, we have to admit we would've been in the play-in this season if not for Wemby's DVT.

Next season 45+ wins is a must and I expect serious contention from 26-27 season.

[rascal]

What? :lol

Spurs have had a losing record for 6 straight years :lol

Do you want me to count all the teams in the nba who have had a losing records for 6 straight years or longer? It won't be hard. It's literally only 2 teams. The Spurs and the Wizards. :lol

I don't know how you turn 6 straight years of losing into "really working well".

In the end even Gregg with two g's couldn't survive a 6th straight losing season and had to be replaced.

Working well is adding Wemby, Fox, Castle and now Harper and 14 who will be another solid rotation player over the last two years. You will see playoffs next year barring injury.

[Obstructed_View]

No. They built their dynasty by drafting Tim Duncan, a generational player. We were an instant contender in 1 season and would have been contending with or without Tony and Manu, the only real draft successes we had post Duncan through the end of the dynasty.

Wemby is a generational player, but he's also a modern-era player, which means he doesn't care about team-loyalty, he wants to win and we need to placate to that. How many franchise players up and leave when they don't feel the team is placating them? Too many.
They added a generational player to a perennial 50-win roster and won a title. Then those guys got old and the Spurs built a title team around Duncan with draft picks and reclamation projects. Then they did it a second time at the end of Timmy's career.

[rascal]

As much of a hater I am, we have to admit we would've been in the play-in this season if not for Wemby's DVT.

Next season 45+ wins is a must and I expect serious contention from 26-27 season.

Spurs can be top three in the west depending on what other moves they make in addition to adding Harper. The Rockets were a 52 win team and the Spurs can be as good or better than the Rockets next year.

[benefactor]

Working well is adding Wemby, Fox, Castle and now Harper and 14 who will be another solid rotation player over the last two years. You will see playoffs next year barring injury.
If we are being honest though, there was no strategy to this. It was pure luck

[rascal]

If we are being honest though, there was no strategy to this. It was pure luck

I didn't say it wasn't by luck but building through the draft is working. The foundation of the team is being set with that luck.

[benefactor]

I didn't say it wasn't by luck but building through the draft is working. The foundation of the team is being set with that luck.
Well yeah, it works great when you get that lucky:lol

[scott]

Well yeah, it works great when you get that lucky:lol

To be fair, the expression "better lucky than good" didn't come from nowhere! :lol

[KobesAchilles]

As much of a hater I am, we have to admit we would've been in the play-in this season if not for Wemby's DVT.

Next season 45+ wins is a must and I expect serious contention from 26-27 season.
Well I guess I am a hater bc I think they aren’t going to make the playoffs next year. 45 wins puts them in the play-in and not the playoffs. I have said that the Spurs are a badly run organization that is akin to the Sacramento Kings and we could easily go 8 straight years without making the playoffs. Well next year would be year 7 and if they get 45 wins like you say they still don’t make the playoffs.

To quote the late great Jerry Kraut. Players don’t win championships, organizations do. And we are a poorly run one. It’s why I want Giannis so badly. It will force us to trim the fat early instead of all this well let’s take baby steps bullshit. Year one with Wemby: we won 25 games. Year 2 we won 34. Year 3 let’s say we win 45. Year 4 we win what 48-50? Year 5 Wemby is maxed out at 100 million a year and we no longer have fucking cap space and we are stuck as a middling team hoping that in Harper’s 3rd year he proves to be a second star. And with our player development I don’t have faith that he will.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think people here have understood how the second apron prevents you from keeping all your players. You can build through the draft all you want, at the end of the day you will have to trade most of your roster because the contracts will be too big. Brian Wright has his work cut out.

This upcoming season the Spurs have to be in the top 6 in the west. Then in the 2026 offseason, which is the last year of Wemby on a rookie deal, they have to load up the roster with long term pieces on good contracts to enter the title window, because once Wemby's max kicks in, the year after that Castle's extension kicks in and the year after that Harper's extension kicks in. By then Fox will have to be traded. Teams will have super short title windows of about 2 seasons and will then have to let half their roster go and try to reload. It will be really difficult to go on a run like we did with Tim back in the day.

All the spacing issues, the rebounding issues, etc. have to be completely eliminated by 2026 if we want to contend. That's a lot to ask of Mitch, being that he starts with a roster that has major holes.

[poopbox]

As much of a hater I am, we have to admit we would've been in the play-in this season if not for Wemby's DVT.

Next season 45+ wins is a must and I expect serious contention from 26-27 season.

I don't think the play in is anything to brag about.

That is how far the spurs have fallen. Teams like the mavs and kings get ridiculed and told to blow the whole team up when they make the play in. But the spurs making the play in? Well that's progress and a good season. :lol

[poopbox]

Working well is adding Wemby, Fox, Castle and now Harper and 14 who will be another solid rotation player over the last two years. You will see playoffs next year barring injury.

Those players haven't even cranked out a winning season yet. I'm a big believer in you can't until you can, you don't until you do. When they help us win something other than a top 5 pick let me know.

It's also sort of frightening that 40% of the things on your list are not even on the team yet (Harper and 14). Like damn 6 years of being terrible and we STILL got to wait on another player or two to join the roster before we can be like "ok guys we making a push for the playoffs this year" :lol

Goes to show you how awful the drafting and roster was before Victor.

[Seventyniner]

I don't think people here have understood how the second apron prevents you from keeping all your players. You can build through the draft all you want, at the end of the day you will have to trade most of your roster because the contracts will be too big. Brian Wright has his work cut out.

This upcoming season the Spurs have to be in the top 6 in the west. Then in the 2026 offseason, which is the last year of Wemby on a rookie deal, they have to load up the roster with long term pieces on good contracts to enter the title window, because once Wemby's max kicks in, the year after that Castle's extension kicks in and the year after that Harper's extension kicks in. By then Fox will have to be traded. Teams will have super short title windows of about 2 seasons and will then have to let half their roster go and try to reload. It will be really difficult to go on a run like we did with Tim back in the day.

All the spacing issues, the rebounding issues, etc. have to be completely eliminated by 2026 if we want to contend. That's a lot to ask of Mitch, being that he starts with a roster that has major holes.

imo it's too early to worry about Mitch dealing with holes in the roster. The offseason is far from over. The Spurs have the MLE at the very least to sign a rotation-level forward, and the potential to go in many different directions this summer.

Ways to avoid second apron hell include not giving out big money to players that don't deserve it, like Jaylen Brown/MPJ/Gobert, having cost-controlled players that are stars already like JWill, and not emptying the cupboard of draft picks so that the roster can be replenished with rookie and second round contracts.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Spurs can be top three in the west depending on what other moves they make in addition to adding Harper. The Rockets were a 52 win team and the Spurs can be as good or better than the Rockets next year.

Yes.

The current Spurs will be easily top 6 next season. Top 3 is doable.

[scott]

I don't think people here have understood how the second apron prevents you from keeping all your players. You can build through the draft all you want, at the end of the day you will have to trade most of your roster because the contracts will be too big. Brian Wright has his work cut out.

This upcoming season the Spurs have to be in the top 6 in the west. Then in the 2026 offseason, which is the last year of Wemby on a rookie deal, they have to load up the roster with long term pieces on good contracts to enter the title window, because once Wemby's max kicks in, the year after that Castle's extension kicks in and the year after that Harper's extension kicks in. By then Fox will have to be traded. Teams will have super short title windows of about 2 seasons and will then have to let half their roster go and try to reload. It will be really difficult to go on a run like we did with Tim back in the day.

All the spacing issues, the rebounding issues, etc. have to be completely eliminated by 2026 if we want to contend. That's a lot to ask of Mitch, being that he starts with a roster that has major holes.

I broadly agree with you, but the Celtics are a bit of a unique case because the acquired many of these highly compensated pieces via trade. If you have an opportunity to build organically, I think it will become significantly more difficult to end up with a 2nd apron scenario like the Celtics have, because those players aren't going to have the same opportunities to earn max deals. It's common to just assume Castle and Harper are going to eventually need max extensions... but how are they going to do this? At the end of the day, there is only one ball. So in that respect, I do think there is a little bit of a self-regulating factor at play for the Spurs contracts to not completely spiral out of control...

But with that said, I agree with your point.

[Arguendo]

Those players haven't even cranked out a winning season yet. I'm a big believer in you can't until you can, you don't until you do. When they help us win something other than a top 5 pick let me know.

It's also sort of frightening that 40% of the things on your list are not even on the team yet (Harper and 14). Like damn 6 years of being terrible and we STILL got to wait on another player or two to join the roster before we can be like "ok guys we making a push for the playoffs this year" :lol

Goes to show you how awful the drafting and roster was before Victor.
Yes, the drafting and roster was awful pre-Vic.
But you don't think they were "making a push for the playoffs" last yr before Vic got hurt?
Sure, they were 6 games under .500, but 5 games into integrating Fox. Sac made the play-in 2 games under, Dallas 4.
17-13 would've gotten them into it, 16-12 would've tied Dallas. Lost a game each to Sac/Dal, so 15-13 could've gotten them there. 13-13 would've kept them in the hunt with 2 to play...I think we were making a push, got Fox momentum, Castle proving his worth, and maybe tied/past Dallas with 28 games of healthy Wemby & Co. But they at least would've been making a push to Suns level imo.

[Arguendo]

But, like poopbox said, you don't until you do. I don't think Bucks take our call for less than #2 + Castle as the starting point, then you have to match salaries, so either Keldon + Barnes + lots of filler or Vassell and still prolly Barnes + filler, and more picks, the good ones.
Giannis is All-time, but we haven't been close. Does a gutted roster + Giannis get us passed OKC next yr or the next? I seriously doubt it, but it hampers Wemby's growth, and empties the chest.
Year 3 you have a Prime Wemby, a 33 y/o Giannis and a 30 y/o Fox, no bench and are a 2nd Apron team. That could win, but your window is very short right as Wemby is ready too win.
Stay the course, Spurs are too far away from competing for a championship unless SGA get hurt, grow and show! Then add.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

It's funny people are still even thinking to trade for old guys like Giannis or Durant with Harper or Castle. :)

They failed to realize how things turned around with the quick arrival of Fox, castle and Harper.

And don't forget we have an alien who is still rising.

We will be a top 4 team in the west without any major trades. I'll not be surprised if we get into west conference finals next year.

I don't want Durant or Giannis even if just for salary Dump because:

1. we cannot win a tile in year 1 with or without these old stars.
2. In year 2, we can win a title without them.
3. They reduce play time and touches of our younger guys and hinder their development.
4. At their mileage, there is more chance for major injury to occur at any time.

[LeBowen]

I don't think the play in is anything to brag about.

That is how far the spurs have fallen. Teams like the mavs and kings get ridiculed and told to blow the whole team up when they make the play in. But the spurs making the play in? Well that's progress and a good season. :lol

Play-in after two 22 win seasons would've been a huge improvement.
Kings reached their ceiling as a team and Mavs aren't worth mentioning after the worst trade ever.


Well I guess I am a hater bc I think they aren’t going to make the playoffs next year. 45 wins puts them in the play-in and not the playoffs. I have said that the Spurs are a badly run organization that is akin to the Sacramento Kings and we could easily go 8 straight years without making the playoffs. Well next year would be year 7 and if they get 45 wins like you say they still don’t make the playoffs.

To quote the late great Jerry Kraut. Players don’t win championships, organizations do. And we are a poorly run one. It’s why I want Giannis so badly. It will force us to trim the fat early instead of all this well let’s take baby steps bullshit. Year one with Wemby: we won 25 games. Year 2 we won 34. Year 3 let’s say we win 45. Year 4 we win what 48-50? Year 5 Wemby is maxed out at 100 million a year and we no longer have fucking cap space and we are stuck as a middling team hoping that in Harper’s 3rd year he proves to be a second star. And with our player development I don’t have faith that he will.

Post-nephew moves should've obviously better and there are quite a few better front offices these days, but we're still good compared to at least half the league.
Wright's moves after we lucked into Wemby have mostly been good.

[scott]

Play-in after two 22 win seasons would've been a huge improvement.
Kings reached their ceiling as a team and Mavs aren't worth mentioning after the worst trade ever.



Post-nephew moves should've obviously better and there are quite a few better front offices these days, but we're still good compared to at least half the league.
Wright's moves after we lucked into Wemby have mostly been good.

I trust Wright as much as any other GM in the league to make smart, value conscious trades, especially in the context of a small market team. I do not worry about us getting fleeced in trades even for a moment.

I also feel Wright has earned a lot of trust in terms of player acquisition in general. He's not done much on the free agent front aside from CP3, but he has brought in players who were appropriate for the Spurs at the time. CP3 and Barnes last year. Cedi the year before. Smart bargain bin additions in Champ, Mamu, Bassey. Fox was obviously his biggest move to date. However, this will have to take the next step (see point #4 in this reply).

I generally have regained trust in their drafting. It was a little questionable for awhile there with Vassell over Hali, Primo in general, then Sochan over JDub... but they've crushed the picks at the top of the draft. We'll see how they do with 14 if they make that pick and how they do with lower picks going forward.

The rea I'm still concerned about is his ability to build an overall coherent team that can contend. This is a huge summer for him. I'm choosing to be optimistic and think he'll nail it (even if deep down I actually believe he won't do much other than pick Harper and trade #14 :lol)

[KobesAchilles]

Play-in after two 22 win seasons would've been a huge improvement.
Kings reached their ceiling as a team and Mavs aren't worth mentioning after the worst trade ever.



Post-nephew moves should've obviously better and there are quite a few better front offices these days, but we're still good compared to at least half the league.
Wright's moves after we lucked into Wemby have mostly been good.
I’m not even against Wrights moves at the time. I can see why we picked Vassell over Hali. I can see why we picked Sochan over JDub. I can’t for the life of me see why we picked Primo there was literally nothing elite about him. He wasn’t fast. He wasn’t strong. He wasn’t a good dribbler. He wasn’t a good passer. He wasn’t a good creator. And he wasn’t a good shooter either. That one is just beyond me. But Castle more than made up for that. And ofc Wemby.

My issue I suppose is how the franchise is run. We are running the franchise like the Lakers. Shitty player development. No coach with actual experience. No elite assistant coaches. Bad player development planning. I can’t remember the last player the Lakers actually developed. We are the SA Lakers in their little mom and pop shop franchise. The only difference is (and this is a slight difference) generational talent is never traded to us.

I just want to see the Spurs take steps to actually achieve their goals. Instead of just having said goals and basically placing everything at the feet of our 21 year old center.