3-and-D forwards watch

[RC_Drunkford]

with 3 guards who can penetrate at will and Wemby it's obvious what we need at the forward spots:

- Elite 3-point shooting (38% and up)
- Defense
- Rebounding

We basically need 3 of those players when we want to talk about contending, so 2 of them are on the floor at all times.

Throw in any targets you can find. Preferably 27 and under, gettable for under 30 million per year. That includes draft prospects, players from Europe, etc.

Right now we have:

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_8640,h_4860,x_0,y_744/c_fill,w_720,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images/ImagnImages/mmsport/inside_the_spurs/01jd3zkaxyd02ksncdsf.jpg

Keldon Johnson

No D, no 3 (31.8%)

https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/66bbde68bb9e1174ab6ecc54/San-Antonio-Spurs-v-Utah-Jazz/960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=960
Devin Vassell

supposedly a good team defender who's a terrible 1-on-1 defender, decent shooter (36.8%), but actually an SG who's undersized for the SF spot


https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/d_https:::cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com:gmg:PCSHFAWDC5AOXK4LA5R 5FYA2C4.png/c_scale,w_640/v1/media/gmg/MHBZH3WY3ZGTXFJJXP4N37KXRU.jpg?_a=DAJAUVWIZAAA

Harrison Barnes

great shooter (43.3%), mediocre defender and rebounder (3.8 boards). Can be kept as a vet off the bench, but if we're talking titles I'd rather have him as my 8th-9th man in the playoffs.


https://ocdn.eu/sport-images-transforms/1/-TMk9lGaHR0cHM6Ly9vY2RuLmV1L3B1bHNjbXMvTURBXy8yYzY2 YTQzYi0wYmU1LTQyM2EtOTEwYS05OWMyOTlhNjFjMGYuanBlZ5 OVAwDMcc0Gqs0Dv5UCzQNIAMLDkwmmMjI2NDhmBt4AAqEwBaEx AQ/jeremy-sochan.webp

Jeremy Sochan

Good rebounder (6.5 boards) and 1-on-1 defender. Would fit the profile if he could shoot, but he can't (30.8% on 1.7 attempts). Even if he ever develops a shot, it's far fetched he'll ever be a knock down shooter. We can hope though.


https://library.sportingnews.com/styles/crop_style_16_9_desktop/s3/2023-07/nba-plain--5436428f-0413-4698-90b8-43a6269c6000.jpeg?h=920929c4&itok=SNfddVi-

Julien Champagnie

solid defender, 3-point shooter (37.1%) and rebounder (3.8 boards in 23 minutes). The definition of average, but can definitely be seen as a bench piece for a contender on a great contract.



So we basically have 2 bench guys and need to add 2 starting caliber forwards.

[Seventyniner]

Who in the league that is actually attainable checks all three of those boxes? imo at best you're going to get above average production in two of the three and below average in the third.

[scott]

I'm working on some research for a post on every PF in the NBA to try and identify some targets for that position. Will probably be coming later today. Just teasing that because it is relevant to this post.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The known 3nD players cost a fortune , just look at Bridges's trade last summer, so the Spurs should look for the unearthed gems, like Toumani Camara and such. Easier said than done of course, there aren't too many of these, but hopefully Spurs can get one via the 14th pick (Bryant, Coward) or trade.

[scott]

Who in the league that is actually attainable checks all three of those boxes? imo at best you're going to get above average production in two of the three and below average in the third.

That's what I've found as well. The guys who do check all three boxes (JJJ, for example) are max or near-max level players because they are rare and very good.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm working on some research for a post on every PF in the NBA to try and identify some targets for that position. Will probably be coming later today. Just teasing that because it is relevant to this post.

post them in this thread, cause we definitely need to find some sleepers. The market is thin. Brian Wright will need to pull a rabbit out the hat.

[LeBowen]

Barnes should definitely stay, I'd even give him another contract. Maybe 20/2.
I said he'd be this generation's Finley when he joined.

Champagnie also has to stay. He's an average bench player, but having a good 6'8 shooter who's not a negative on defense is a bargain.

Keldon should definitely go, he's outlived his purpose.
I'd also get rid of Devin, but he's PATFO's favorite.

The list of cheap (asset wise) 3-D wings is almost non-existant at this point, tbh.
My list from a month ago has been reduced to these names:
PJ Washington - Expiring $14M, redundant after the lottery, could get him by returning that Mavs swap. But idk if it would be worth it.
MPJ - Only as a salary dump, I still think he's a solid piece, just playing injured. His contract is done before Wemby's extension starts.
Aldama - Grizzlies cleared space to keep him.
McDaniels - No chance considering his rise in these playoffs.
Naz Reid - Timberwolves cleared space to keep him.
Murphy III - Untouchable in NOLA unless we decide to trade down from #2.
Herb Jones - Would cost one good FRP, maybe more.
Cam Johnson - Not worth it, imo. Overrated and can't rebound.

[scott]

post them in this thread, cause we definitely need to find some sleepers. The market is thin. Brian Wright will need to pull a rabbit out the hat.

It's gonna be it's own thread... because I need that ST.com clout :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

John Collins


https://kslsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/GettyImages-1905675728.jpg


My favorite option for PF:

27 years old, 6'9'' PF, averages 19 PPG, 8.2 RB, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK shooting 40% from 3 on 3.7 attempts. Can play inside and outside, mobile, good screener and roll man, has a midrange game, postgame, can play in transition. Athletic, plays above the rim, good cutter.

Not a great defender, but decent on that end. Metrics don't show the full picture because he only played with the Tre Young Hawks and the tanking Jazz. Was doing a good job on Giannis together with Capela when the Hawks were making their playoff run back in the day for example.

Has a 26.5 million player option this offseason. Trade or sign and trade should be easily possible by offering Keldon + Branham and second round picks. I don't think 14 has to be included to get him with how asset depleted the league is and I honestly wouldn't want to trade 14, so we can draft another 3-and-D forward.

[Mnky]

Laurri may still be an option with those extra picks we have. At some point, they're going to have to make a decision on tanking or building and if they continue truly tanking, Laurri may be had for picks. He's the same age frame as fox and I think would fit great with the fox-harper-castle-Wemby line up. Run everyone into Laurri and Wemby and the defense will be just fine with a couple smaller guys.

[RC_Drunkford]

Jabari Smith Jr.

https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/d_https:::media.click2houston.com:theme:images:pla ceholder-16x9-kprc.png/c_scale,w_640/v1/media/gmg/FG6XBHYLS5A7VEAMWBJFVWBDNU.jpg?_a=DAJAUVWIZAAA

timeline wise the best on the market I guess. Is only coming off the bench in Houston.

22 years old, 6'11'', 12.2 PPG, 7 REB, 35.4 % from 3 on 5.1 attempts. Good defender with a lot of upside.

Would only be attainable if Houston makes a trade for an All-Star like KD/Booker. We could then try to trade assets to the Suns to get him if we're lucky.

[RC_Drunkford]

Laurri may still be an option with those extra picks we have. At some point, they're going to have to make a decision on tanking or building and if they continue truly tanking, Laurri may be had for picks. He's the same age frame as fox and I think would fit great with the fox-harper-castle-Wemby line up. Run everyone into Laurri and Wemby and the defense will be just fine with a couple smaller guys.

He would be a great fit, but is on a max deal until 2028/29 with 53.5 million. By that time Wemby will be on the max, Fox as well and Castle's extension would kick in.

[stnick2261]

If Sochan starts hitting his shots, then he's a great option for starting SF. He's quick enough. He can defend the best opposing player. He crashes the boards. It REALLY comes down to making his shots... and ACTUALLY TAKING THEM.

Champ is already good as his backup SF.

Barnes is good(-ish) and I would start him for his shooting... but obviously look to upgrade the position if the opportunity arises.

Fleming is perfect as the backup PF behind Barnes if he is still there at #14.

Sochan / Champ
Barnes / Fleming

None of this requires trading with any teams. However, we would still have Vassell and Keldon available to trade if someone better becomes available.

[rascal]

I'm working on some research for a post on every PF in the NBA to try and identify some targets for that position. Will probably be coming later today. Just teasing that because it is relevant to this post.

This is a good thread as the Spurs are going to have to make some moves to address the roster deficiencies in the likely scenario they draft and keep Harper.

Which realistic trades/players can the Spurs trade for and which players can/will they trade that the other team will have interest in.

[LeBowen]

If Sochan starts hitting his shots, then he's a great option for starting SF. He's quick enough. He can defend the best opposing player. He crashes the boards. It REALLY comes down to making his shots... and ACTUALLY TAKING THEM.

The issue is that even if Jeremy becomes that player, it's still not enough.
We need a volume shooter. Someone who's going to take 5 to 7 threes a game and make them at 38-40%.
We need someone who's going to create space by just standing in the corner, kind of how Barnes does now.

[Mnky]

He would be a great fit, but is on a max deal until 2028/29 with 53.5 million. By that time Wemby will be on the max, Fox as well and Castle's extension would kick in.

46,46, 49, and 53.

Definitely expensive but I think he fits the timeline of Fox as well if they move some money. At that point, you know whether you need fox past that point as well as Laurri. Contract is good timing to assess the core needs of Wemby with your young guards and be a legitimate competitive team.

I'm a fan of Sochan but outside of that, the rest of the guys are good enough for the worse record in the league. Think it's worth cleaning house to clear the books. With a team like that, I'm sure they'd be able to attract bargain veterans as well.

[rascal]

If Sochan starts hitting his shots, then he's a great option for starting SF. He's quick enough. He can defend the best opposing player. He crashes the boards. It REALLY comes down to making his shots... and ACTUALLY TAKING THEM.

Champ is already good as his backup SF.

Barnes is good(-ish) and I would start him for his shooting... but obviously look to upgrade the position if the opportunity arises.

Fleming is perfect as the backup PF behind Barnes if he is still there at #14.

Sochan / Champ
Barnes / Fleming

None of this requires trading with any teams. However, we would still have Vassell and Keldon available to trade if someone better becomes available.

I'm finished expecting Sochan to develop as a shooter and especially thinking he's going to be good enough as a SF who can knock down shots. He doesn't have the skills/shooter's coordination to be that type of player. It's not going to happen.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Just draft one at 14 and 38. Candidates:

Asa Newell, Johni Broome, Carter Bryant, Eric Dixon and others.

[RC_Drunkford]

PJ Washington

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/PJ-Washington.jpg?width=600

26, 6'7'', 14.7 PPG, 7.8 REB, 1.1 STL, 1.1 BLK, 38.1% from 3 on 4.2 attempts. Fits like a glove tbh

Is under contract in Dallas for one more year at 14.1 million. They will probably try to trade him for a guard, so not sure how we could get him, but we should try our best to get in there on a 3-team deal somehow...

Should also be a major FA target in 2026

[stnick2261]

The issue is that even if Jeremy becomes that player, it's still not enough.
We need a volume shooter. Someone who's going to take 5 to 7 threes a game and make them at 38-40%.
We need someone who's going to create space by just standing in the corner, kind of how Barnes does now.

you literally quoted me as saying "It REALLY comes down to making his shots... and ACTUALLY TAKING THEM." (IE. taking more threes)

[scottspurs]

Cedric Coward- 3 and D They just interviewed him during the Combine game and he showed off his Kawhi sized hands. Has the same wingspan as Kawhi. On offense he reminds me of Klay Thompson. If you want 3 and D draft this guy at 14. Came across as well spoken high IQ / high character. Comes across as a dude that loves basketball. Humble and wants to put in the work. He is my favorite option at pick 14

[spurraider21]

Laurri may still be an option with those extra picks we have. At some point, they're going to have to make a decision on tanking or building and if they continue truly tanking, Laurri may be had for picks. He's the same age frame as fox and I think would fit great with the fox-harper-castle-Wemby line up. Run everyone into Laurri and Wemby and the defense will be just fine with a couple smaller guys.
with respect to first round picks, we dont have any "extra" picks left other than #14 this year. we own 1 first round pick every year going forward. 2026, 2028, 2030, and 2031 have swap rights built in, so theyre better than typical first round picks. 2027 we have no control over as thats the hawks natrual pick. and then 2029 is our one natural pick without protections

[LeBowen]

so not sure how we could get him, but we should try our best to get in there on a 3-team deal somehow...

It would be an easy trade to make.
Keldon, '30 swap rights returned for Washington.

The question is if we'd be willing to give up that swap for Washington. It lost a lot of value after the lottery, but you never know what can happen with those idiots in charge. AD will be long gone.
Mavs would find a third team to take that swap and Keldon for a guard.

I'd do it only if Washington accepts to sign a reasonable extension right away.

[RC_Drunkford]

46,46, 49, and 53.

Definitely expensive but I think he fits the timeline of Fox as well if they move some money. At that point, you know whether you need fox past that point as well as Laurri. Contract is good timing to assess the core needs of Wemby with your young guards and be a legitimate competitive team.

I'm a fan of Sochan but outside of that, the rest of the guys are good enough for the worse record in the league. Think it's worth cleaning house to clear the books. With a team like that, I'm sure they'd be able to attract bargain veterans as well.

I'd just rather split the money on 2 players who earn half of what Lauri earns. Gives you more flexibility and your team is less top heavy. If you compare Lauri's numbers to John Collins:

Lauri Markkanen 19 PPG, 5.9 REB, 1.5 AST, 0.7 STL , 0.4 BLK, 34.6 % from 3 on 8.5 attempts - 42 million with the salary going up

John Collins 19 PPG, 8.2 RB, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK shooting 40% from 3 on 3.7 attempts - 26.5 million with the salary likely going down slightly

and don't get me started on Ainge wanting like 2-4 first round picks for Lauri, while Collins would cost a couple of second rounders

[RC_Drunkford]

It would be an easy trade to make.
Keldon, '30 swap rights returned for Washington.

The question is if we'd be willing to give up that swap for Washington. It lost a lot of value after the lottery, but you never know what can happen with those idiots in charge. AD will be long gone.
Mavs would find a third team to take that swap and Keldon for a guard.

I'd do it only if Washington accepts to sign a reasonable extension right away.

if that's all it takes they should get him. He's young just entering his prime and fits a need. The player profile we are looking for is very rare in the NBA at the moment. It's basically a handful of guys.

[LeBowen]

you literally quoted me as saying "It REALLY comes down to making his shots... and ACTUALLY TAKING THEM." (IE. taking more threes)

Did I misread what you wrote?
He's at 29% on 2.5 attempts which doesn't seem bad, but all of those are "alone in the gym" attempts.
He'll never get to "we have to close out this guy hard" territory, but we need those players on the wings.

[Mnky]

with respect to first round picks, we dont have any "extra" picks left other than #14 this year. we own 1 first round pick every year going forward. 2026, 2028, 2030, and 2031 have swap rights built in, so theyre better than typical first round picks. 2027 we have no control over as thats the hawks natrual pick. and then 2029 is our one natural pick without protections


The spurs are getting expensive very fast. Three top 5 picks is expensive. They can't keep all of those 1st and 2nds business wise, which is more of what I learn towards with the 'extra' moniker. Which may not have been the most accurate identifier as you point out.

They traded a lottery pick last year for this very reason though. You only have so many spots on the team and the starting lineup for the next half a decade may be set going into 2027. We've seen how good/not good the value can be for those mid level picks. Most of the time they're 50/50 shot of being a role player. Not saying they're not valuable, but that's why I think they're very moveable. Granted you miss the chance of hitting on a star, but I doubt anyone will miss Branham, malachi, or even a vassell/sochan for a laurri.

Also, big fan of PJ washington. Think that'd be a great pickup if he doesn't go for a big contract, which isn't likely these days.

[Mnky]

I'd just rather split the money on 2 players who earn half of what Lauri earns. Gives you more flexibility and your team is less top heavy. If you compare Lauri's numbers to John Collins:

Lauri Markkanen 19 PPG, 5.9 REB, 1.5 AST, 0.7 STL , 0.4 BLK, 34.6 % from 3 on 8.5 attempts - 42 million with the salary going up

John Collins 19 PPG, 8.2 RB, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK shooting 40% from 3 on 3.7 attempts - 26.5 million with the salary likely going down slightly

and don't get me started on Ainge wanting like 2-4 first round picks for Lauri, while Collins would cost a couple of second rounders


I'm also big on Collins. I think his value is super high as a do what the team needs guy. Even playing on a losing team, he competed night in and out. He demanded the Max last time. Do you really think he's not going to try to get as much as he can on his next contract as well? I honestly think he might garner in the same area as Laurri. If that's the case Laurri being able to produce while everyone knows he's the guy is much more valuable to me than Collins as a background guy. If we could get Collins for a contract near the same, I'd be all in on that. I just don't see his team going for that.

Collins said he's cool with staying with the Jazz long term if they can work something out, but at the end of the day it's a business. I feel like he's going to go for the most he can get and luckily there isn't a lot of teams that can offer that, but he is a very wanted archetype.

And yea, Ainge is the biggest red flag of any of this in my eyes. He just so happens to have some very useful archetypes on his team, and I'm sure he knows it.

[spurraider21]

The spurs are getting expensive very fast. Three top 5 picks is expensive. They can't keep all of those 1st and 2nds business wise, which is more of what I learn towards with the 'extra' moniker. Which may not have been the most accurate identifier as you point out.

They traded a lottery pick last year for this very reason though. You only have so many spots on the team and the starting lineup for the next half a decade may be set going into 2027. We've seen how good/not good the value can be for those mid level picks. Most of the time they're 50/50 shot of being a role player. Not saying they're not valuable, but that's why I think they're very moveable. Granted you miss the chance of hitting on a star, but I doubt anyone will miss Branham, malachi, or even a vassell/sochan for a laurri.

Also, big fan of PJ washington. Think that'd be a great pickup if he doesn't go for a big contract, which isn't likely these days.
well our first round picks arent likely to continue being top 5-10 picks. the hawks picks dont seem to have the same upside we were once hoping for. you say we cant keep those picks, but rookie scale role players are going to be cheaper than free agents. if anything we need the picks to make sure we can have a steady stream of affordable talent, even if they don't end up re-signing here. think Kyle Anderson who gave us some solid play but didnt re-up with us.

the spurs will only find themselves in trouble if they unnecessarily extend or re-sign guys. like if they give sochan a big extension this summer

[stnick2261]

Did I misread what you wrote?

Yes,

In other words, I said he needs to make his shots (increase his %) and actually take them (increase his attempts)... in order to become a legit outside threat and increase spacing.

I still have hope that he can do that if he works hard in the off-season. But if he starts the year being too hesitant to shoot, then I'd be at the point of getting rid of him.

[RC_Drunkford]

luckily there isn't a lot of teams that can offer that

that is exactly why I think he can be had for likely the same salary he earns now

[Mnky]

well our first round picks arent likely to continue being top 5-10 picks. the hawks picks dont seem to have the same upside we were once hoping for. you say we cant keep those picks, but rookie scale role players are going to be cheaper than free agents. if anything we need the picks to make sure we can have a steady stream of affordable talent, even if they don't end up re-signing here. think Kyle Anderson who gave us some solid play but didnt re-up with us.

the spurs will only find themselves in trouble if they unnecessarily extend or re-sign guys. like if they give sochan a big extension this summer


Playoff rotations hardly break 8 true guys these days. You have a couple stop gap guys here and there. Finding veterans(who I would much rather have in those spots) won't be as difficult once your starting five is set. They hold value, like I said, with keeping a healthy balance sheet as much as anything but they're also wasted if there isn't an attempt to become a champion in that process. We likely let go of 2-4 of our 1st round picks within a couple years. So will other teams. Those players have to play somewhere.

Celtics got one ring out of all their stowed picks. Thunder are still working on their first. There isn't a set in stone approach to winning outside of giving your star the right starting five around them. If I can get a foundation piece ala Laurri/collins that fit the mold for Wemby, I have no qualms with letting a couple 1st go at all.

[Bruno]

Hachimura isn't that bad in that role. Not worth trading something like a first round pick for him but he could be useful if you get him for cheap.

[mo7888]

Hachimura isn't that bad in that role. Not worth trading something like a first round pick for him but he could be useful if you get him for cheap.

Good call there...

[RC_Drunkford]

PJ Washington, Hachimura and John Collins (if he opts in) are all in their last contract year this season. So they would be free agents in 2026 which is when we have a ton of cap room. They will probably be moved at the deadline by their teams, if not earlier. We absolutely need to get one of them without giving up much or might even be able to sign one in the 2026 offseason.

[hoopdreams11]

Larry Nance jr

[Guru of Nothing]

What are people's opinion's on Jonathan Isaac, Magic? I'm not too familiar with his game. All I know is he has the requisite size and maybe Orlando views Vassell as a partial solution to the Magic shooting woes. If there are deficiencies in his game, maybe getting off Vassell's contract makes it more palatable. He has 4 yrs/$60M remaining, so they'd have to pad the offer with additional salary.

I'm not really pining for this, but curious if there is a low-friction deal to pursue with Orlando.

Edit: Not a 3 and D, so maybe wrong thread.

[TD 21]

Despite the obsession with Collins, an archetype they've long avoided, my sense is, unless they plan to make a (much needed) consolidation trade, they'll target a backup C more so than forwards.

Unfortunately, Vassell probably will be their 3 and D forward "acquisition", since that's the role he'll have to be (mis)cast in on this imbalanced roster.

[Uriel]

What about Carter Bryant?

[LeBowen]

What are people's opinion's on Jonathan Isaac, Magic? I'm not too familiar with his game. All I know is he has the requisite size and maybe Orlando views Vassell as a partial solution to the Magic shooting woes. If there are deficiencies in his game, maybe getting off Vassell's contract makes it more palatable. He has 4 yrs/$60M remaining, so they'd have to pad the offer with additional salary.

I'm not really pining for this, but curious if there is a low-friction deal to pursue with Orlando.

Edit: Not a 3 and D, so maybe wrong thread.

Before injuries ruined him, he was on his way to becoming the best defender in the league and I'm not over-exaggerating. Ridiculous upside.
He can't play heavy minutes anymore and he lost his athleticism. Can't shoot.
Is also off the deep end, Kyrie level conspiracy theorist.

[twodeep]

How about an in between one could we unload Vassel for Wiggins at SF salaries roughly the same but 5 years vs 3 years. The Heat are trying to redo their roster so a 30y old player for a 24y old player

[scott]

How about an in between one could we unload Vassel for Wiggins at SF salaries roughly the same but 5 years vs 3 years. The Heat are trying to redo their roster so a 30y old player for a 24y old player

Would.

[Dverde]

Bobby Portis has a player option. I doubt he wants to go back to the Bucks with no Giannis. I figured he was older but he is only 30.

[vy65]

The sad reality is that I don't see MATFO moving off of The Power of Friendship (the power of the lock-bracelets is too strong). I think they view Keldon as some kind of strong locker room glue guy, Vassell as their 3/D guy of the future, and Sochan as a premier defender swiss army knife. To be clear, I don't agree with any of those assessments, but this is in line with the organization's prioritization of continuity and continual, internal development (see Johnson, Mitch). I think at most we'll see Branham or Blake (but not likely both) gone and maybe they add a vet/resign CP3.

But in reality, I think the lineup we see for Game 1 is Fox/Castle/DV/HB(or Sochan)/Wemby with Keldon being the first guy off the bench.

To be even more clear, I hope to god I'm wrong about all of this, but I don't see them making more than just incremental changes (incremental here meaning: Harper and Mitch. I would be shocked if they actually used 14)

[Arguendo]

Laurri may still be an option with those extra picks we have. At some point, they're going to have to make a decision on tanking or building and if they continue truly tanking, Laurri may be had for picks. He's the same age frame as fox and I think would fit great with the fox-harper-castle-Wemby line up. Run everyone into Laurri and Wemby and the defense will be just fine with a couple smaller guys.
No interest in Lauri unless its a straight salary dump. He's good but no where near Max good when he plays, which is less than 70% of the time, and he's due almost $200M over the next 4 yrs. He will be a Levine-esque salary dumb soon. He also doesn't rebound.

If you want a Unicorn that plays 70% of the time and is actually better at everything than Lauri, Porzingis is likely to be available, only 2-years older, actually has PO experience, and is only due $31M.
No to Lauri. No where near a Max guy, that matters with aprons.

[scott]

The sad reality is that I don't see MATFO moving off of The Power of Friendship (the power of the lock-bracelets is too strong). I think they view Keldon as some kind of strong locker room glue guy, Vassell as their 3/D guy of the future, and Sochan as a premier defender swiss army knife. To be clear, I don't agree with any of those assessments, but this is in line with the organization's prioritization of continuity and continual, internal development (see Johnson, Mitch). I think at most we'll see Branham or Blake (but not likely both) gone and maybe they add a vet/resign CP3.

But in reality, I think the lineup we see for Game 1 is Fox/Castle/DV/HB(or Sochan)/Wemby with Keldon being the first guy off the bench.

To be even more clear, I hope to god I'm wrong about all of this, but I don't see them making more than just incremental changes (incremental here meaning: Harper and Mitch. I would be shocked if they actually used 14)

Baba, this is the kind of sobering dose of reality I do not need right now. Thank you.

[scott]

No interest in Lauri unless its a straight salary dump. He's good but no where near Max good when he plays, which is less than 70% of the time, and he's due almost $200M over the next 4 yrs. He will be a Levine-esque salary dumb soon. He also doesn't rebound.

If you want a Unicorn that plays 70% of the time and is actually better at everything than Lauri, Porzingis is likely to be available, only 2-years older, actually has PO experience, and is only due $31M.
No to Lauri. No where near a Max guy, that matters with aprons.

Lauri rates 85th percentile in OREB Quality and 71st percentile in DREB quality.

There is plenty to criticize about Lauri... but rebounding actually ain't one of them.

[itzsoweezee]

PJ Washington has to be gettable now. I’m skeptical that Dallas trades with us, though

[exstatic]

I'm also big on Collins. I think his value is super high as a do what the team needs guy. Even playing on a losing team, he competed night in and out. He demanded the Max last time. Do you really think he's not going to try to get as much as he can on his next contract as well? I honestly think he might garner in the same area as Laurri. If that's the case Laurri being able to produce while everyone knows he's the guy is much more valuable to me than Collins as a background guy. If we could get Collins for a contract near the same, I'd be all in on that. I just don't see his team going for that.

Collins said he's cool with staying with the Jazz long term if they can work something out, but at the end of the day it's a business. I feel like he's going to go for the most he can get and luckily there isn't a lot of teams that can offer that, but he is a very wanted archetype.

And yea, Ainge is the biggest red flag of any of this in my eyes. He just so happens to have some very useful archetypes on his team, and I'm sure he knows it.

What Collins wants isn’t necessarily what the market has available. If you look at cap money available, he probably shouldn’t opt out, as only the Nets have a wad of cash. They have no need for a player like him. Unless hie is resigned to taking MLE money, he’s probably staying put.

[Guru of Nothing]

If we draft Harper I view CP3 as a nearly essential piece of next season's roster just for the mentorship alone. I can see an ESPN narrative in the future where we reflect on CP3's role developing the greatest backcourt of all time. He can only make Harper better. Would be an invaluable asset for the launch of Mitch's head coaching career too.

And let's be real, if CP3 wants to return to chase a ring for the next two years (at a 15 min/game pace, maybe 50 games a year) and he doesn't make money an obstacle, could the front office possibly say no? ...assuming 2024/25 level of play.

[montgod]

Lauri rates 85th percentile in OREB Quality and 71st percentile in DREB quality.

There is plenty to criticize about Lauri... but rebounding actually ain't one of them.

True but you have to available to play to make a difference. 5 yrs out of the 8 he's been in the league, he played 55 games or less.

[SpursFan86]

The sad reality is that I don't see MATFO moving off of The Power of Friendship (the power of the lock-bracelets is too strong). I think they view Keldon as some kind of strong locker room glue guy, Vassell as their 3/D guy of the future, and Sochan as a premier defender swiss army knife. To be clear, I don't agree with any of those assessments, but this is in line with the organization's prioritization of continuity and continual, internal development (see Johnson, Mitch). I think at most we'll see Branham or Blake (but not likely both) gone and maybe they add a vet/resign CP3.

But in reality, I think the lineup we see for Game 1 is Fox/Castle/DV/HB(or Sochan)/Wemby with Keldon being the first guy off the bench.

To be even more clear, I hope to god I'm wrong about all of this, but I don't see them making more than just incremental changes (incremental here meaning: Harper and Mitch. I would be shocked if they actually used 14)

Pretty much my thoughts. I would be be very surprised if they use #14. I would bet #38 is used for an overseas draft and stash player.

Hopefully they’re more willing to shake things up than we’re giving them credit for, but I’m not going to be holding my breath. It will be criminal to roll into next season without 1) at least one truly knockdown shooter who can play at the wing, and 2) a legitimate backup C.

[montgod]

No interest in Lauri unless its a straight salary dump. He's good but no where near Max good when he plays, which is less than 70% of the time, and he's due almost $200M over the next 4 yrs. He will be a Levine-esque salary dumb soon. He also doesn't rebound.

If you want a Unicorn that plays 70% of the time and is actually better at everything than Lauri, Porzingis is likely to be available, only 2-years older, actually has PO experience, and is only due $31M.
No to Lauri. No where near a Max guy, that matters with aprons.

Yeah I thought about Porzingis as a good option as well with load management but still pricey. I've read Celts will be looking to unload players this offseason with Tatum getting hurt. Hauser wouldn't be a bad option to try and get.

[montgod]

Pretty much my thoughts. I would be be very surprised if they use #14. I would bet #38 is used for an overseas draft and stash player.

Hopefully they’re more willing to shake things up than we’re giving them credit for, but I’m not going to be holding my breath. It will be criminal to roll into next season without 1) at least one truly knockdown shooter who can play at the wing, and 2) a legitimate backup C.

I agree. Wright has continually said during interviews it's a deep draft, probably just using the typical draft lingo, but it's a possibility they use 14 if they see a player they really like. I feel like it will be similar to last year in adding more assets for that 2nd 1st rd pick vs trying to train up another rookie who may need a lot of development.

And I think they will fill those two needs via trade or free agency. I just don't see any big names being brought on like Turner or Reid (unfortunately). We'll see though. Lot of other teams need to clean up their roster/depth chart so there are deals to be made.

[mo7888]

Yeah I thought about Porzingis as a good option as well with load management but still pricey. I've read Celts will be looking to unload players this offseason with Tatum getting hurt. Hauser wouldn't be a bad option to try and get.

Is 14 + Branham too much for Hauser or about right?

[montgod]

Is 14 + Branham too much for Hauser or about right?

I'd think that's too much for Hauser. I could be wrong.

Might be right for Cameron Johnson though.

[vy65]

Baba, this is the kind of sobering dose of reality I do not need right now. Thank you.

Inshallah I’m wrong habibi, friendship crew is the definition of haram.

[CGD]

Jabari Smith Jr.

https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/d_https:::media.click2houston.com:theme:images:pla ceholder-16x9-kprc.png/c_scale,w_640/v1/media/gmg/FG6XBHYLS5A7VEAMWBJFVWBDNU.jpg?_a=DAJAUVWIZAAA

timeline wise the best on the market I guess. Is only coming off the bench in Houston.

22 years old, 6'11'', 12.2 PPG, 7 REB, 35.4 % from 3 on 5.1 attempts. Good defender with a lot of upside.

Would only be attainable if Houston makes a trade for an All-Star like KD/Booker. We could then try to trade assets to the Suns to get him if we're lucky.

I’ve been trying to get this guy here for years, lol. Sign me up.

[CGD]

Is 14 + Branham too much for Hauser or about right?

Yeah. I just sit back and wait for Boston to pivot to firesale mode. It’s too early now as they’re fighting for their playoff lives, but the moment will come.

[Mnky]

What Collins wants isn’t necessarily what the market has available. If you look at cap money available, he probably shouldn’t opt out, as only the Nets have a wad of cash. They have no need for a player like him. Unless hie is resigned to taking MLE money, he’s probably staying put.

Think that's the best thing going for a potential pairing. He'd be a great get below 30, just hard to see it play out.

He did mention he wants a home. He wants to go somewhere he belongs and can be part of long term if that's with the jazz or somewhere else.

Spurs could be exactly what he wants. Who knows.

[Obstructed_View]

Julian went from a guy who doesn't look like he belongs in the NBA to Little LDN in a single offseason. I'm excited to see what he brings this year.

[The Truth #6]

We need affordable no name dudes who can shoot. Somehow OKC can find and develop these players, obviously with the help of Chip, but we somehow have to rise to the occasion as an organization. We'll see.

[ambchang]

Bobby Portis has a player option. I doubt he wants to go back to the Bucks with no Giannis. I figured he was older but he is only 30.

Dudes a psycho. Don’t want him anywhere near a young team.

[thiste]

Is KD out of the question? This doesn't have to be a long term solution

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-trade-rumors/phoenix-suns/realistic-3-team-trade-idea-includes-spurs-nets-durant-and-a-lot-of-picks

[palangi]

Is KD out of the question? This doesn't have to be a long term solution

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-trade-rumors/phoenix-suns/realistic-3-team-trade-idea-includes-spurs-nets-durant-and-a-lot-of-picks

We give up way too much for an aging Durant. No thank you

[PopTheGOAT]

We give up way too much for an aging Durant. No thank you
Define too much. Barnes, KJ, Sochan, #14?

[ambchang]

Yes to:
Wiggins. Perfect replacement for vassell. I’d even add in a few 2nd rounders.
John Collins shooting, rebounding and defence at a reasonable price
Kornet. Rebounds and interior defence for cheap.
Hauser: shooting for cheap
Jabari smith. 3 and guy. Shouldn’t be too expensive on his extension either. Lacks bball iq though.
NAW. Strong perimeter d. Reasonable contract. Can shoot a bit.
Derrick jones - can shoot somewhat. Strong perimeter defender. Reasonable contract. Not sure if he’s gettable though.

Noes:
Lauri. Too pricey
Yabusele. No defence playing slow footed player
Durant. Will cost way too much on a rental.
Giannis. Cost too much, mortgage the future. yes I know he’s Giannis but the spurs will be in cap hell
Cam Johnson. Too little for too much.
Naz - weak rebounder, slow on the perimeter. Can shoot. Can handle. Super sized slow footed gigantic guard almost. Will be very expensive.


Our own guys:
Vassell really has to go
Sochan can be around until a strong perimeter defender is in place. If we can get NAW or DJJ I’m alright with him going. Wouldn’t mind having him on a reasonable contract though.
Keldon. I want to keep him around. Instant offence off the bench is a useful role.
Malaki has to go. There really hasn’t been any improvements from him
Wesley. I still see some potential. I wanted to keep him around.

[thiste]

The upside to KD joining the Spurs is tremendous though. He'd bring a lot of offense, spacing & gravity ; an elite 3pt shooter, capable defender & decent rebounder. He could replace CP3 as a mentor to Victor who would love him here.

We're basically giving up Vassell & Keldon and we'd get to keep that Fox/Castle/Harper backcourt.

I struggle to see what's so bad about this equation. Sure, KD has a high salary but we can renegotiate in a year & let him go or have him for 2/3 seasons or more depending on his evolution.

In terms of picks, nothing's set in stone, it's all open to discussion.

I'm all for it personally.

[tbdog]

Although the wheels could fall off any time, KD is still projected to keep playing like Curry and Lebron have been. He is just one of those players dedicated to his art. Plus he will never lose that shooting or height.

[exstatic]

Define too much. Barnes, KJ, Sochan, #14?

Phoenix hangs up.

[thiste]

Phoenix hangs up.

What if KD tells them he wants to go to San Antonio?

Also they might find takers for KD but maybe not that many ready to take on that contract for a 36yo player. They probably won't ask the World for him if they feel they need to rebuild.

[PopTheGOAT]

What if KD tells them he wants to go to San Antonio?

Also they might find takers for KD but maybe not that many ready to take on that contract for a 36yo player. They probably won't ask the World for him if they feel they need to rebuild.
I think the package they get for KD will be determined by if a contender shows interest. Does OKC, DEN, or MIN jump in? They might be willing to beat a SAS or HOU offer because of the urgency to ring. Adding KD to one of those teams would turn them into the favorite, I’d guess. OKC has the most trade pieces but not sure if they’d want to mess with what they have. Phoenix HAS to trade KD, though.

[CGD]

Been thinking a lot about Boston, and their impending cap hell. I'm sure they would LOVE to swap Dev for 34 year old Jrue, if even just for the savings. But boy that Jrue contract looks pretty bad going forward. He's owed over 100M for the next 3 years.

How may picks do you think BOS would have to attach for us to eat that deal? Jrue could be serviceable, but thats a steep price even for a good 6th man.

[exstatic]

What if KD tells them he wants to go to San Antonio?

Also they might find takers for KD but maybe not that many ready to take on that contract for a 36yo player. They probably won't ask the World for him if they feel they need to rebuild.

Their owner has said they’re not burning it down, no matter how much they need to. They’ll try to sell KD for as much as they can, and build around Book, even though that’s already failed once. When they have their realization, that pick will be long gone, either selected, or flipped for future assets. The Spurs aren’t going to wait around for Dollar Tree Cuban to make up his mind.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think the package they get for KD will be determined by if a contender shows interest. Does OKC, DEN, or MIN jump in? They might be willing to beat a SAS or HOU offer because of the urgency to ring. Adding KD to one of those teams would turn them into the favorite, I’d guess. OKC has the most trade pieces but not sure if they’d want to mess with what they have. Phoenix HAS to trade KD, though.

The problem with most of these teams is that they don’t have the means to do it. GS no longer have the contracts after Butler’s trade, Denver don’t have the picks and it’s also unlikely for Phoenix to be super interested in Porter. Minnesota are in a tough spot with both Randle and Naz being FAs, any sort of sign and trade would be super difficult to execute.

OKC can obviously do it, Houston too if they don’t go after Giannis. From the east contenders Indiana and Cleveland can do it if he’s open to go there.

[PopTheGOAT]

The problem with most of these teams is that they don’t have the means to do it. GS no longer have the contracts after Butler’s trade, Denver don’t have the picks and it’s also unlikely for Phoenix to be super interested in Porter. Minnesota are in a tough spot with both Randle and Naz being FAs, any sort of sign and trade would be super difficult to execute.

OKC can obviously do it, Houston too if they don’t go after Giannis. From the east contenders Indiana and Cleveland can do it if he’s open to go there.
CLE would be interesting. Not sure about their situation. I think overall this kind of illustrates that there aren’t a ton of suitors. I’m just saying if the price is right…

[thiste]

Houston may make a move for Giannis or KD. Not so sure about OKC, Indiana & Cleveland because they already have the pieces and are full of young talent already. Going for a short term 36yo solution feels like going backwards.
I just checked Cleveland's financials, I'm by no means a specialist but it looks like they're going to be in the luxury tax next year, so taking on KD's contract seems unlikely or they would have to give up significant pieces and totally change the face of their roster, which seems unlikely to me.
OKC & Indiana may have the cap space but as I said, a move like that seems incongruent with their current roster construction.

On the other hand, Spurs are still in full rebuild, we don't have the roster figured out yet and this would open a mini contender window for Victor earlier in his career. This group desperately needs playoffs experience, ASAP. That's the next step.
KD completes our roster very well, would work great alongside Victor and would help a lot in securing that playoffs spot. He would also represent a mentor figure like we just had with Chris Paul, it would be a continuation of that of sorts.

[Extra Stout]

KD would be a great mentor, could show all the young kids how to be thin-skinned on social media, could even set up their burner accounts for them.

[RC_Drunkford]

I totally forgot about Highsmith. Not a great rebounder, but grades out as one of the best defenders in the league

[TD 21]

PJ Washington

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/PJ-Washington.jpg?width=600

26, 6'7'', 14.7 PPG, 7.8 REB, 1.1 STL, 1.1 BLK, 38.1% from 3 on 4.2 attempts. Fits like a glove tbh

Is under contract in Dallas for one more year at 14.1 million. They will probably try to trade him for a guard, so not sure how we could get him, but we should try our best to get in there on a 3-team deal somehow...

Should also be a major FA target in 2026

Kind of an aside, but I could see something like . . .

To Celtics: Washington, Kleber, Powell, Lakers protected (10-14?) 1st
To Mavericks: Holiday
To Lakers: Gafford

[sfernald]

Barnes should definitely stay, I'd even give him another contract. Maybe 20/2.
I said he'd be this generation's Finley when he joined.

Champagnie also has to stay. He's an average bench player, but having a good 6'8 shooter who's not a negative on defense is a bargain.

Keldon should definitely go, he's outlived his purpose.
I'd also get rid of Devin, but he's PATFO's favorite.

The list of cheap (asset wise) 3-D wings is almost non-existant at this point, tbh.
My list from a month ago has been reduced to these names:
PJ Washington - Expiring $14M, redundant after the lottery, could get him by returning that Mavs swap. But idk if it would be worth it.
MPJ - Only as a salary dump, I still think he's a solid piece, just playing injured. His contract is done before Wemby's extension starts.
Aldama - Grizzlies cleared space to keep him.
McDaniels - No chance considering his rise in these playoffs.
Naz Reid - Timberwolves cleared space to keep him.
Murphy III - Untouchable in NOLA unless we decide to trade down from #2.
Herb Jones - Would cost one good FRP, maybe more.
Cam Johnson - Not worth it, imo. Overrated and can't rebound.


nice post.

i would say keep Champagnie and Barnes. Give Dallas back their swap for PJ. It’s a cheap get and he’s decent at least. He always seems to play better in the playoffs too. And finally draft Carter or Essengue at #14 and hope they become the best of the bunch in 2-3 years.

Next year is just going to be a playin year or maybe first round year anyway.

[scott]

If CLE needs to cut salary, I'd be here waiting to pick up Dean Wade for pennies. He's far more unproven, but shows a lot of promise as a good rebounder, defender and shooter.

[jesterbobman]

Draft wise, you're making bets.
Essengue, Carter, Asa Newell, Yaxel, Nique Clifford, Rasheer Fleming. Lot of those guys are options at 14 or in a 2 for 1 in a Brooklyn trade. I have Essengue highest, but he's not the best shooter.

We have a ton of seconds to grease the wheels, and at this point I think Malaki and Blake are gone soon. Sending out Malaki and Blake to the Celtics and the Nets, with a second round pick going to each team, with us getting Sam Hauser works cap wise (and is probably about right in value). More of the 3 than the D, but off ball shooting is really valuable.

If We get (my) semi realistic dream of Essengue at 14 and Byrd at 38, gives us
Fox / Castle / Harper/ Vassell / Byrd / Champagnie
Harrison / Keldon /Hauser / Sochan / Essengue / Mamu.

I'd want to try that group - Ideally, moving forward id swap out Keldon for a shooting 4, (PJ and some others appeal) but it's a better structure.

Good group I think, with room for changes to add experience, then just need a back up C in FA.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I think the package they get for KD will be determined by if a contender shows interest. Does OKC, DEN, or MIN jump in? They might be willing to beat a SAS or HOU offer because of the urgency to ring. Adding KD to one of those teams would turn them into the favorite, I’d guess. OKC has the most trade pieces but not sure if they’d want to mess with what they have. Phoenix HAS to trade KD, though.

Yes. A bunch of contenders will be interested in Durant. Cavaliers, Lakers, Warriors, Wolves...

[SpursBills]

Draft wise, you're making bets.
Essengue, Carter, Asa Newell, Yaxel, Nique Clifford, Rasheer Fleming. Lot of those guys are options at 14 or in a 2 for 1 in a Brooklyn trade. I have Essengue highest, but he's not the best shooter.

We have a ton of seconds to grease the wheels, and at this point I think Malaki and Blake are gone soon. Sending out Malaki and Blake to the Celtics and the Nets, with a second round pick going to each team, with us getting Sam Hauser works cap wise (and is probably about right in value). More of the 3 than the D, but off ball shooting is really valuable.

If We get (my) semi realistic dream of Essengue at 14 and Byrd at 38, gives us
Fox / Castle / Harper/ Vassell / Byrd / Champagnie
Harrison / Keldon /Hauser / Sochan / Essengue / Mamu.

I'd want to try that group - Ideally, moving forward id swap out Keldon for a shooting 4, (PJ and some others appeal) but it's a better structure.

Good group I think, with room for changes to add experience, then just need a back up C in FA.

I don't think there's any way that Essengue lasts until 14. He's been getting better and better throughout the season - Alba Berlin might be the worst Euroleague team, but they're still a Euroleague team and his game against them was no joke. If Ulm continues to advance in the playoffs, his stock is going to continue to rise. GMs are going to see his age, tools, attacking mentality, and production and realize he's multiple tiers above prior raw French prospects like Dieng, Dadiet, or Salaun. If Maluach goes in the first 7 picks, I think Masai will absolutely pull the trigger on Essengue. This would effectively push someone else down, so for Fleming/Carter/Sorber enjoyers this would probably be a nice development.

[jesterbobman]

I don't think he should last to 14 - and agree with you that he seems like the most obvious non Maluach Raptors pick. Really productive, young dude position of need.

If I had to guess, I think Maluach is gone before 9, Essengue ends up top 10, Derik Queen is the most likely slider, just based on weird fit as a non star backup C who isn't a rim protector.