The OKC Observatio

[Atl Spur]

Has anyone noticed the 9+ guards they have on their roster? It’s funny how the media/talking heads want the spurs to think passing on a star potential guard isn’t a good fit! If no knock your socks off trade is available you take Harper with no hesitation. Okc keeps drafting guards and trying to create the very dynamic we have the opportunity to place on the floor next year.

[R. DeMurre]

And if Nikola Topic has a good rookie season next year after missing this one, it would give them incredible flexibility in terms of salary/roster management.

[rjv]

And if Nikola Topic has a good rookie season next year after missing this one, it would give them incredible flexibility in terms of salary/roster management.

damn, i forgot all about Topic.

[montgod]

Has anyone noticed the 9+ guards they have on their roster? It’s funny how the media/talking heads want the spurs to think passing on a star potential guard isn’t a good fit! If no knock your socks off trade is available you take Harper with no hesitation. Okc keeps drafting guards and trying to create the very dynamic we have the opportunity to place on the floor next year.

Exactly! Spurs following the same blueprint cause it just makes sense. Draft talent and figure it out later and fill out other needs via free agency or trade.

[SpursGenius]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Harper turns out to be more dominant than Flagg. Again Flagg prototype a new thing. We haven’t seen his type in 100 years.

[GAustex]

Has anyone noticed the 9+ guards they have on their roster? It’s funny how the media/talking heads want the spurs to think passing on a star potential guard isn’t a good fit! If no knock your socks off trade is available you take Harper with no hesitation. Okc keeps drafting guards and trying to create the very dynamic we have the opportunity to place on the floor next year.

Still should have passed on Primo

[itzsoweezee]

Has anyone noticed the 9+ guards they have on their roster? It’s funny how the media/talking heads want the spurs to think passing on a star potential guard isn’t a good fit! If no knock your socks off trade is available you take Harper with no hesitation. Okc keeps drafting guards and trying to create the very dynamic we have the opportunity to place on the floor next year.

A lot of those OKC guys are role players, though. What are the examples of three elite guards coexisting on a good team? There has to be at least a few

[spurraider21]

Has anyone noticed the 9+ guards they have on their roster? It’s funny how the media/talking heads want the spurs to think passing on a star potential guard isn’t a good fit! If no knock your socks off trade is available you take Harper with no hesitation. Okc keeps drafting guards and trying to create the very dynamic we have the opportunity to place on the floor next year.
well... all of them are capable shooters. no they're not all 40% snipers, but each of Shai, J-Dub, Caruso, Wallace, Wiggins, Joe, Dort are solid to good 3pt shooters.

whoever we decide is the best shooter between Fox, Castle, and Harper would be the worst shooter on OKC. giddey had been their weak link and was traded for caruso (though giddey had a solid shooting year for the bulls)

[rjv]

the guard that OKC has that harper or castle resemble is Shai. Shai is the only one who really attacks the rim so efficiently.

[Atl Spur]

Harp & castle will rack up the fouls on other teams.

[thiste]

Still should have passed on Primo

Once again, if we draft Sengun instead of Primo, we're not getting Wemby.

[Seventyniner]

Once again, if we draft Sengun instead of Primo, we're not getting Wemby.

By that logic, if the Mavs hadn't traded Luka then they wouldn't have gotten Flagg.

The stupidity of a decision can only be judged by what was known at the time.

[rjv]

By that logic, if the Mavs hadn't traded Luka then they wouldn't have gotten Flagg.

The stupidity of a decision can only be judged by what was known at the time.

he's not making a comment on the actual decision to draft primo-just that it turned out for the best. so, no point revisiting it, unless as a cautionary tale. but it's much easier to blow a 12th pick than it is to blow a 2nd in a draft in which there's such a consensus on who the top two prospects are.

[Biggems]

We need a Dort type player off the bench. He is a 4th quarter assassin from 3.

[objective]

One thing I've been thinking about is that at least a Spurs 3-guard triumvirate would potentially nullify a major okc strength, which is attacking ball handlers and causing turnovers. Trying to fullcourt pressure and harass a crunch time triumvirate would be a recipe for a big backfire. Not to mention Wemby's ability to handle, move, and pass. Balhandler fatigue against an onslaught of okc players becomes less of a worry.

But there's still a major size and rebounding disadvantage. Barnes doesn't rebound, Sochan isn't a help rim defender and is relatively small not to mention will probably be guarding out on the perimeter. What do the Spurs do against the Chet-Hartenstein duo? Hell, Jalen Williams the wing is probably too strong on the boards for any non-Wemby Spur to handle.

People bring up Naz Reid but they likely won't have the necessary cap space. Aldama didn't get stellar reviews from the playoff game breakdowns I listened to.

Maybe Brook Lopez, he's a favorite of mine, but was played off the court by Indiana.

Can there be anyone in the draft at 14 who could eventually be an answer to OKCs big lineup? Colin Mostly-Bricks? Rasheer Fleming? Maxime Raynaud?

[Atl Spur]

One thing I've been thinking about is that at least a Spurs 3-guard triumvirate would potentially nullify a major okc strength, which is attacking ball handlers and causing turnovers. Trying to fullcourt pressure and harass a crunch time triumvirate would be a recipe for a big backfire. Not to mention Wemby's ability to handle, move, and pass. Balhandler fatigue against an onslaught of okc players becomes less of a worry.

But there's still a major size and rebounding disadvantage. Barnes doesn't rebound, Sochan isn't a help rim defender and is relatively small not to mention will probably be guarding out on the perimeter. What do the Spurs do against the Chet-Hartenstein duo? Hell, Jalen Williams the wing is probably too strong on the boards for any non-Wemby Spur to handle.

People bring up Naz Reid but they likely won't have the necessary cap space. Aldama didn't get stellar reviews from the playoff game breakdowns I listened to.

Maybe Brook Lopez, he's a favorite of mine, but was played off the court by Indiana.

Can there be anyone in the draft at 14 who could eventually be an answer to OKCs big lineup? Colin Mostly-Bricks? Rasheer Fleming? Maxime Raynaud?

Bro, harp & castle are sturdy! We hold the advantage over okc in any three guard situation if harp is the selection, they’re to light in the pockets:) Not to mention what we add to our front court

[Atl Spur]

Boy, tonight was a clear example of how lightweights get moved around! Okc tried the old 4 guard lineup with Chet :(

[scott]

One thing I've been thinking about is that at least a Spurs 3-guard triumvirate would potentially nullify a major okc strength, which is attacking ball handlers and causing turnovers. Trying to fullcourt pressure and harass a crunch time triumvirate would be a recipe for a big backfire. Not to mention Wemby's ability to handle, move, and pass. Balhandler fatigue against an onslaught of okc players becomes less of a worry.

But there's still a major size and rebounding disadvantage. Barnes doesn't rebound, Sochan isn't a help rim defender and is relatively small not to mention will probably be guarding out on the perimeter. What do the Spurs do against the Chet-Hartenstein duo? Hell, Jalen Williams the wing is probably too strong on the boards for any non-Wemby Spur to handle.

People bring up Naz Reid but they likely won't have the necessary cap space. Aldama didn't get stellar reviews from the playoff game breakdowns I listened to.

Maybe Brook Lopez, he's a favorite of mine, but was played off the court by Indiana.

Can there be anyone in the draft at 14 who could eventually be an answer to OKCs big lineup? Colin Mostly-Bricks? Rasheer Fleming? Maxime Raynaud?

I think Myles Turner might be the right guy to fit in to this theoretical lineup, but we don't have the $ to sign him outright and I don't think IND is going to be looking to lose him coming off b2b ECF appearances (and maybe on their way to the finals)

[Ice009]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Harper turns out to be more dominant than Flagg. Again Flagg prototype a new thing. We haven’t seen his type in 100 years.

Haven't seen what in 100 years? I'm not following what you're saying?

[RC_Drunkford]

One thing I've been thinking about is that at least a Spurs 3-guard triumvirate would potentially nullify a major okc strength, which is attacking ball handlers and causing turnovers. Trying to fullcourt pressure and harass a crunch time triumvirate would be a recipe for a big backfire. Not to mention Wemby's ability to handle, move, and pass. Balhandler fatigue against an onslaught of okc players becomes less of a worry.

But there's still a major size and rebounding disadvantage. Barnes doesn't rebound, Sochan isn't a help rim defender and is relatively small not to mention will probably be guarding out on the perimeter. What do the Spurs do against the Chet-Hartenstein duo? Hell, Jalen Williams the wing is probably too strong on the boards for any non-Wemby Spur to handle.

People bring up Naz Reid but they likely won't have the necessary cap space. Aldama didn't get stellar reviews from the playoff game breakdowns I listened to.

Maybe Brook Lopez, he's a favorite of mine, but was played off the court by Indiana.

Can there be anyone in the draft at 14 who could eventually be an answer to OKCs big lineup? Colin Mostly-Bricks? Rasheer Fleming? Maxime Raynaud?


John Collins, PJ Washington and Rui Hachimura all have only 1 year left on their deals. All 3 are attainable, can shoot the 3 and rebound well. Drafting Sorber would also be helpful.

[thOOdee]

Has anyone noticed the 9+ guards they have on their roster? It’s funny how the media/talking heads want the spurs to think passing on a star potential guard isn’t a good fit! If no knock your socks off trade is available you take Harper with no hesitation. Okc keeps drafting guards and trying to create the very dynamic we have the opportunity to place on the floor next year.

lol you can smell the ingenious evertime i hear ace bailey. Even saw a malauch suggestion due to “fit”.

[KobesAchilles]

I’m pretty sure OKC is going to win the best game but man if they don’t then this doesn’t exactly look too good for the vaunted 3 guard line up. 2 second round knock outs in a row.

[LeBowen]

I’m pretty sure OKC is going to win the best game but man if they don’t then this doesn’t exactly look too good for the vaunted 3 guard line up. 2 second round knock outs in a row.

It's just down to their second best player shitting the bed.
16ppg on 33/21/82, gameplan has nothing to do with his disappearence.
If anything, OKC's biggest issue has been that other than SGA noone can create shit, they have no bag as kids these days would say.
I still stand by what I said even before the playoffs began, Williams isn't worth the extension he'll ask for and he should be traded because after he signs that deal his trade value will drop.
The only systematic issue they have is Chet being reduced to a role player. Idk how much of it is on him, but he's an afterthought during most possessions.

Williams, Chet and a couple of picks for Giannis seems like as much of a no brainer as a trade can be.
SGA is their franchise player and they're on his timeline, not the Williams/Chet timeline.
And SGA is just 8 months younger than Fox who's preparing for retirement according to some spurstalk members.

The West is wide open and no contender other than OKC has a clear path to makin major improvements, then pairing SGA with Giannis would be their best shot to win multiple championships.

[Atl Spur]

I’m pretty sure OKC is going to win the best game but man if they don’t then this doesn’t exactly look too good for the vaunted 3 guard line up. 2 second round knock outs in a row.

It’s ok, Boston’s 3 guard lineup won it last year :)

[KobesAchilles]

It’s ok, Boston’s 3 guard lineup won it last year :)
They have one this year too. And they’re not winning the championship. One team doing it in 75 years of nba history is not much of a thing to copy and expect it to work. Denvers other players have been shitting the bed too. So idgaf that OKCs second best player is struggling. He’s struggles bc the playoffs is more physical and teams get to rough them up more. Chet is a role player at this point. He hasn’t proven he is anything more than that. Denver is just playing very physical basketball. That’s the way you deal with these smaller teams in the playoffs. It’s why we traded George Hill for Kawhi. We were too small as a team and we needed bigger stronger and more physical players. We got a taller SG in Danny, a legit 6’7 SF and we also got rid of small ass Blair and put in 7ft Tiago. Size typically wins championships.

[Atl Spur]

They have one this year too. And they’re not winning the championship. One team doing it in 75 years of nba history is not much of a thing to copy and expect it to work. Denvers other players have been shitting the bed too. So idgaf that OKCs second best player is struggling. He’s struggles bc the playoffs is more physical and teams get to rough them up more. Chet is a role player at this point. He hasn’t proven he is anything more than that. Denver is just playing very physical basketball. That’s the way you deal with these smaller teams in the playoffs. It’s why we traded George Hill for Kawhi. We were too small as a team and we needed bigger stronger and more physical players. We got a taller SG in Danny, a legit 6’7 SF and we also got rid of small ass Blair and put in 7ft Tiago. Size typically wins championships.

Fox 6”3 lightning fast, Harper 6”6 ish 215. , castle 6”7 ish 220 ; heights & weights sound similar to golden state during their reign!

[couchman]

I’ve been puzzled by how they use Chet.
He’s their second most talented player but he’s just a spacer on most offensive possessions.
I guess that’s what happens when you’re injured a lot and the team succeeds and get accustomed to playing without you.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t think the Spurs are building a roster on a 3-guard line up. We just have a 3-guard rotation. What we need to add is a 3-forward rotation and a back up big. Our 3 best players should be better than OKCs 3 best players in the long run, so now it comes down to who has the stronger supporting cast.

[Atl Spur]

If Harper is good as advertised, we have a big time chess piece no matter the perceived redundancy proclaimed by media etc…

[LeBowen]

OKC's size issue isn't even about guards, but about frontcourt.
Gordon bullies Chet and Jokic bullies Hartenstein. Guards have nothing to do with it.

Nuggets duo is averaging 23.9rpg, Thunder's is at 19.8.
10 extra OREB in the series for the Nuggets.
Might seem insignificant over 6 games, but Jokic and even Gordon require an extra body on them and create space that way.

That's why I'm adamant about Spurs needing a PF similar to Gordon.

[KobesAchilles]

OKC's size issue isn't even about guards, but about frontcourt.
Gordon bullies Chet and Jokic bullies Hartenstein. Guards have nothing to do with it.

Nuggets duo is averaging 23.9rpg, Thunder's is at 19.8.
10 extra OREB in the series for the Nuggets.
Might seem insignificant over 6 games, but Jokic and even Gordon require an extra body on them and create space that way.

That's why I'm adamant about Spurs needing a PF similar to Gordon.
One could argue though that having more size would help with their rebounding problem. I mean I know that people think that bc guards are similar heights then it should translate but it doesn’t really work that way. They get bullied in the playoffs by bigger and stronger athletes. Jokic is bigger and stronger than Chet. Gordon plays like a bully and is stronger than every player on OKC. MPJ is 6’10 and all it takes his for him to score 10 whole points and this series would be over. I mean OKC can’t even make the Nuggets pay for playing Braun and Murray together as a backcourt they are so discombobulated with Denver playing physical. When you have a 3 guard rotation you end up playing finness ball. And Wemby already plays that way offensively. If Sochan could shoot the fucking ball this really wouldn’t be an issue for us but he never will be able to shoot on a high enough volume to help us that we are kinda fucked.

I mean Castle and Fox should be a good enough backcourt to ring alongside Wemby and Giannis. TBH Sochan has fucked up the whole roster bc I’m not even sure what to do with that spot. We need a PF and SF and not a guard. If we draft Harper we still need a PF. If we trade for Giannis we still need a SF.

The best play (if you’re pro keep the pick) would be to sign Collins and sign LaRavia and sign Kornet. The Spurs don’t extend Sochan and let him play out his contract and trade Vassell. That would give the Spurs the starters of Fox, Harper, Champ, Collins, and Wemby. Our bench would be Castle, KJ, LaRavia, Sochan, and Kornet. And Barnes would be in the fold too. That’s real depth and should be a playoff team. But I’m not sure bc the Spurs still haven’t hired any real assistant coaches amd haven’t gone after a better shooting coach and better player development coaches so…

[LeBowen]

One could argue though that having more size would help with their rebounding problem. I mean I know that people think that bc guards are similar heights then it should translate but it doesn’t really work that way. They get bullied in the playoffs by bigger and stronger athletes. Jokic is bigger and stronger than Chet. Gordon plays like a bully and is stronger than every player on OKC.

We're getting into whataboutisms, but I don't think having a legit wing instead of one of the guards would've helped them that much.
Clippers had enough size, but Jokic is a guy that can't be beaten at his own game. Zubac defended him better than anyone since the Lakers were allowed to beat him up in the bubble and it didn't help.


I mean OKC can’t even make the Nuggets pay for playing Braun and Murray together as a backcourt they are so discombobulated with Denver playing physical. When you have a 3 guard rotation you end up playing finness ball. And Wemby already plays that way offensively. If Sochan could shoot the fucking ball this really wouldn’t be an issue for us but he never will be able to shoot on a high enough volume to help us that we are kinda fucked.

Braun has been the difference make in this series, imo. Everyone expected others to do what they're doing, but Braun has been great on SGA and is playing really physical.
He's actually at 7.3rpg, rebounding isn't just about size.

Denver also plays 3 guard lineups with Russ in place of MPJ/Gordon and OKC can't punish them even with size advantage during those stretches.


I mean Castle and Fox should be a good enough backcourt to ring alongside Wemby and Giannis. TBH Sochan has fucked up the whole roster bc I’m not even sure what to do with that spot. We need a PF and SF and not a guard. If we draft Harper we still need a PF. If we trade for Giannis we still need a SF.

Jeremy obviously needs to go if he can't develop a respectable jumpshot, but it's not his fault.
Whoever had the final say during the season (I'm not sure it was Mitch) was to blame. Regardless of how everyone performed, hierarchy stayed the same whenever we had a full roster.
Champagnie isn't a high end starter, but he was just what we needed and what we'll need again this season.
After Devin and Jeremy went down he finally got reasonable minutes, had a 20 game stretch with 30mpg, averaged 14ppg, 5rpg and 38% from 3pt on almost 8 attempts while being a neutral or maybe even slightly positive defender.
Then those two recovered and he lost his minutes, regardless of his great play. Had a couple more games when he got the chance again, but to no avail and then he fell off, lost all of his confidence.

And that's honestly the most annoying thing for me, double standards based on pick number and contract.


The best play (if you’re pro keep the pick) would be to sign Collins and sign LaRavia and sign Kornet. The Spurs don’t extend Sochan and let him play out his contract and trade Vassell. That would give the Spurs the starters of Fox, Harper, Champ, Collins, and Wemby. Our bench would be Castle, KJ, LaRavia, Sochan, and Kornet. And Barnes would be in the fold too. That’s real depth and should be a playoff team. But I’m not sure bc the Spurs still haven’t hired any real assistant coaches amd haven’t gone after a better shooting coach and better player development coaches so…

I more or less agree with the exception that Barnes has to start because he's our only elite shooter and is always healthy.

Keldon, Jeremy for Collins. He probably won't get an extension from Utah and they could take a flyer on Jeremy. They forced Kessler to take 5 3pts per game, he'd surely help the tank. They could maybe flip Keldon.
I'm not sure Nets have interest in Devin, maybe if we move down to #19 or #26 from #14. I'm not a fan of Cam, but whatever.

Fox/Harper
Castle/Harper
Barnes/Champagnie
Collins/Cam Johnson
Wemby/Kornet

That's a perfectly functional team with 3 guard rotation, 4 good to great wing shooters who are all 6'8 with Collins being able to play as a small ball C.
Harper/Castle/Champ/Cam/Collins would be as close to positionless basketball as it gets and would run opposing benches off the floor.

I don't think more FRPs should be given up until we see what we have. We haven't seen enough of Fox/Wemby together.
Playoffs are a must, if the team is rolling at the deadline and someone's available, it would be easy enough to make a move.

As for Giannis option, we'd need a couple more trades for high end role players because anything less than making the finals would be a failure in every Giannis season.
After those moves we'd have nothing left meaning we wouldn't have any room for error. Fuck up an all-in summer and it's over. That's why I don't think it happens, especially with Mitch in charge. Would've hired a proven coach if they were interested in skipping steps.

[Raven]

i don't consider jwill and dort as guards

[exstatic]

i don't consider jwill and dort as guards

That’s nice. They’re both shorter than Steph Castle. Dort’s LISTED height is 6’4”, which would be in shoes.

[Atl Spur]

i don't consider jwill and dort as guards

What are they?

[mystargtr34]

J Dub is absolutely a forward to me. He’s huge. Dort is a guard/forward.

[LeBowen]

Jalen Williams
6' 4.50'' barefoot
8' 9.50'' reach
7' 2.25'' wingspan
209 lbs

Castle
6' 5.50''
8' 6.00''
6' 9.00''
210

Harper
6’ 4.50"
8’ 6.00"
6’ 10.50"
213

[RC_Drunkford]

I absolutely want us to trade for a starting PF. Kinda like the idea to somehow snatch PJ Washington and Gafford from Dallas with 14 and matching salaries going to the Mavs. We‘d be Playoff team immediately.

Sochan is close to losing his rotation spot completely tbh. No matter how you construct the line ups, if the Spurs add a PF he‘s basically unplayable unless our back up big shoots 3s

[rjv]

side note. chet is meh against jokic. wemby can go toe to toe with the joker. if wemby is a Thunder, OKC is already getting ready for Ant Man.

[Obstructed_View]

Once again, if we draft Sengun instead of Primo, we're not getting Wemby.
Doesn't make drafting Primo a good decision.

[poopbox]

Has anyone noticed the 9+ guards they have on their roster? It’s funny how the media/talking heads want the spurs to think passing on a star potential guard isn’t a good fit! If no knock your socks off trade is available you take Harper with no hesitation. Okc keeps drafting guards and trying to create the very dynamic we have the opportunity to place on the floor next year.

They have an actual coaching staff who knows how to coach players. We have Brent Brown :lol

Those 9+ guards are also on the verge of losing a playoff series to a team playing 6 or 7 players all of who are gassed from playing 40 minutes a game :lol

You know who doesn't play a bunch of guards at the same time? The pacers and they easily punched their ticket to a conference finals after dismantling a number 1 seed:lol

[spurraider21]

I absolutely want us to trade for a starting PF. Kinda like the idea to somehow snatch PJ Washington and Gafford from Dallas with 14 and matching salaries going to the Mavs. We‘d be Playoff team immediately.

Sochan is close to losing his rotation spot completely tbh. No matter how you construct the line ups, if the Spurs add a PF he‘s basically unplayable unless our back up big shoots 3s
mavs arent giving up both those guys for a single end of lottery pick. they basically gave 2 firsts for PJ and he's been good for them

[rjv]

Pacers start three players who are all 6'6" and under (Nesmith measured 1/4" taller than Castle without shoes at his combine). Nesmith played guard/forward at Vanderbilt. Nembhard and Halliburton were guards in college.

[KDKSpurs24]

They have one this year too. And they’re not winning the championship. One team doing it in 75 years of nba history is not much of a thing to copy and expect it to work. Denvers other players have been shitting the bed too. So idgaf that OKCs second best player is struggling. He’s struggles bc the playoffs is more physical and teams get to rough them up more. Chet is a role player at this point. He hasn’t proven he is anything more than that. Denver is just playing very physical basketball. That’s the way you deal with these smaller teams in the playoffs. It’s why we traded George Hill for Kawhi. We were too small as a team and we needed bigger stronger and more physical players. We got a taller SG in Danny, a legit 6’7 SF and we also got rid of small ass Blair and put in 7ft Tiago. Size typically wins championships.
Boston’s struggles is not about size! First of all they weren’t even allowing a ton of points to the Magic or the Knicks in these playoffs. Defense has barely been an issue for them most of the time. It’s their offensive style of play. I hate the way they play. They pass up potentially good 2s to seek out 3s and it’s formed super bad habits for them. They have shots themselves out of those games due to this style. We wouldn’t have to ever worry about Fox, Castle and Harper forcing up too many 3s. They would definitely prefer to get to the rim. I do say we need a big defensive/rebounding PF, though.

[Atl Spur]

They have an actual coaching staff who knows how to coach players. We have Brent Brown :lol

Those 9+ guards are also on the verge of losing a playoff series to a team playing 6 or 7 players all of who are gassed from playing 40 minutes a game :lol

You know who doesn't play a bunch of guards at the same time? The pacers and they easily punched their ticket to a conference finals after dismantling a number 1 seed:lol

Did they win a chip that I missed? Because Boston and Golden state has. Furthermore you may want to go check indiana starting lineup height/weight ( position title doesn’t matter ) and get back to the conversation:)

[Atl Spur]

Boston’s struggles is not about size! First of all they weren’t even allowing a ton of points to the Magic or the Knicks in these playoffs. Defense has barely been an issue for them most of the time. It’s their offensive style of play. I hate the way they play. They pass up potentially good 2s to seek out 3s and it’s formed super bad habits for them. They have shots themselves out of those games due to this style. We wouldn’t have to ever worry about Fox, Castle and Harper forcing up too many 3s. They would definitely prefer to get to the rim. I do say we need a big defensive/rebounding PF, though.

Someone watches & understands what’s going on I see :) nice post

[Atl Spur]

Pacers start three players who are all 6'6" and under (Nesmith measured 1/4" taller than Castle without shoes at his combine). Nesmith played guard/forward at Vanderbilt. Nembhard and Halliburton were guards in college.

He didn’t know you would fact check him….. thanks

[LeBowen]

Boston’s struggles is not about size! First of all they weren’t even allowing a ton of points to the Magic or the Knicks in these playoffs. Defense has barely been an issue for them most of the time. It’s their offensive style of play. I hate the way they play. They pass up potentially good 2s to seek out 3s and it’s formed super bad habits for them. They have shots themselves out of those games due to this style. We wouldn’t have to ever worry about Fox, Castle and Harper forcing up too many 3s. They would definitely prefer to get to the rim. I do say we need a big defensive/rebounding PF, though.

It's dumb to say it's all one player's fault, but Porzingis has been their biggest issue.
22mpg, 8ppg on 32/12/70 in these playoffs.

He was the final cherry on top that made their team game breaking with his spacing and rim protection, but right now there's something wrong with him.
Mazzulla finally decided to sit him in this last game and they played way better, even without Tatum.

[Atl Spur]

Jalen Williams
6' 4.50'' barefoot
8' 9.50'' reach
7' 2.25'' wingspan
209 lbs

Castle
6' 5.50''
8' 6.00''
6' 9.00''
210

Harper
6’ 4.50"
8’ 6.00"
6’ 10.50"
213

Looks about right.

[scott]

It's just down to their second best player shitting the bed.
16ppg on 33/21/82, gameplan has nothing to do with his disappearence.
If anything, OKC's biggest issue has been that other than SGA noone can create shit, they have no bag as kids these days would say.
I still stand by what I said even before the playoffs began, Williams isn't worth the extension he'll ask for and he should be traded because after he signs that deal his trade value will drop.
The only systematic issue they have is Chet being reduced to a role player. Idk how much of it is on him, but he's an afterthought during most possessions.

Williams, Chet and a couple of picks for Giannis seems like as much of a no brainer as a trade can be.
SGA is their franchise player and they're on his timeline, not the Williams/Chet timeline.
And SGA is just 8 months younger than Fox who's preparing for retirement according to some spurstalk members.

The West is wide open and no contender other than OKC has a clear path to makin major improvements, then pairing SGA with Giannis would be their best shot to win multiple championships.

One other thing I'll add for consideration... a team chasing their first title might have a different approach to a team like the Spurs (one of the two winningest teams in league history, and Top 5 in number of titles). OKC should be willing to go absolutely all out to bring that first chip to OKC. If that means trading Williams/Chet and your pick war chest for Giannis... you do it. The Spurs on the other hand can be more picky. If we were still chasing our first title, I'd be much more willing to send Castle and #2 for Giannis... but because we already have 5, I'm much more interested in playing the long game and setting ourselves up for a dynasty.

[scott]

Chet is a role player at this point. He hasn’t proven he is anything more than that.

I'm going to be very interested in Chet's extension this summer. Everyone just assumes the Thunder will rookie max him, but I don't see it. He's missed half of his career games and he's essentially a role player. I think 5/175 for Chet sounds about right.

[RC_Drunkford]

mavs arent giving up both those guys for a single end of lottery pick. they basically gave 2 firsts for PJ and he's been good for them

probably but both of those guys only have 1 year left on their deals and with Flagg coming in they need to get rid of both. If they hit free agency next year we could sign them.

[spurraider21]

i dont think chet has played himself into a max extension. the injuries suck, but he didnt make any sort of leap in year 2, and also got hurt again.

OKC also doesnt use him as more than a role player

[LeBowen]

probably but both of those guys only have 1 year left on their deals and with Flagg coming in they need to get rid of both. If they hit free agency next year we could sign them.

Mavs rotation right now:
-
Christie/Martin/Hardy
Flagg/Klay/Marshall
AD/Washington/Powell
Gafford/Lively

Kyrie is done, Klay can't play guard anymore, Martin also spent most of his career at SF and Christie/Hardy aren't ballhandlers.
They need two point guards, not one. And another ballhandler if Flagg can't create.

If AD/Flagg is their duo for the next three years, Washington is surely gone. Why would he stay there to be a bench player that's never going to close the games out?

[RC_Drunkford]

Mavs rotation right now:
-
Christie/Martin/Hardy
Flagg/Klay/Marshall
AD/Washington/Powell
Gafford/Lively

Kyrie is done, Klay can't play guard anymore, Martin also spent most of his career at SF and Christie/Hardy aren't ballhandlers.
They need two point guards, not one. And another ballhandler if Flagg can't create.

If AD/Flagg is their duo for the next three years, Washington is surely gone. Why would he stay there to be a bench player that's never going to close the games out?

Yup. They'll most likely keep Lively as the C. AD can play PF next to him, but Flagg plays the 4 which slides AD to the 5. That's a good rotation for them, but makes Washington and Gafford useless. Both guys are only 26 and PJ is an OKC killer. He's probably at the top of my list as PF role player options, because he's a way better defender than a John Collins for example. Offseason, trade deadline or free agency next year. The Spurs need to find a way to add one of those PFs rather sooner than later.

[KobesAchilles]

I'm going to be very interested in Chet's extension this summer. Everyone just assumes the Thunder will rookie max him, but I don't see it. He's missed half of his career games and he's essentially a role player. I think 5/175 for Chet sounds about right.
I’m actually thinking that OKC is about to get a steal on Chet’s contract. Bc it makes zero sense to not have him as your number two guy. Instead they put their eggs in Williams basket bc he can score 20 points a game. Once Chet puts in some muscle and gets a little more seasoning, I fully expect him to be a unicorn type player with a jumper and defense and passing. Kinda like Pau was on the Lakers (but not as much post ups).

[itzsoweezee]

Yup. They'll most likely keep Lively as the C. AD can play PF next to him, but Flagg plays the 4 which slides AD to the 5. That's a good rotation for them, but makes Washington and Gafford useless. Both guys are only 26 and PJ is an OKC killer. He's probably at the top of my list as PF role player options, because he's a way better defender than a John Collins for example. Offseason, trade deadline or free agency next year. The Spurs need to find a way to add one of those PFs rather sooner than later.

Mavs aren’t trading with spurs. This isn’t fantasy sports

[RC_Drunkford]

Mavs aren’t trading with spurs. This isn’t fantasy sports

Just like Milwaukee doesn't trade with Boston, but somehow Jrue Holiday still ended up on the Celtics...

[The Truth #6]

Oklahoma strength is definitely its guards, but I thought they had a sort of problem with rebounding, or at least until they got Hartenstein. It may still be a problem.

For us, we have to get a great fit at the 4 to fill in the deficiencies.

[spurraider21]

Mavs aren’t trading with spurs. This isn’t fantasy sports
how soon do you forget about the reggie bullock blockbuster

[exstatic]

i dont think chet has played himself into a max extension. the injuries suck, but he didnt make any sort of leap in year 2, and also got hurt again.

OKC also doesnt use him as more than a role player

Doesn’t mean someone else won’t create a team around him. His UFA season is. 2026, when everyone has money. He could force the issue, or a change of scenery.

[scott]

Doesn’t mean someone else won’t create a team around him. His UFA season is. 2026, when everyone has money. He could force the issue, or a change of scenery.

He'd be a RFA in the summer of 2026

[exstatic]

He'd be a RFA in the summer of 2026

‘When everyone has money’.

[spurraider21]

Doesn’t mean someone else won’t create a team around him. His UFA season is. 2026, when everyone has money. He could force the issue, or a change of scenery.
oh for sure. i do think he's being underutilized, though his unavailability hasnt done him any favors. he had a great rookie year but hasnt seemingly added anything to it. i think his value on the open market may be higher than it is for OKC...

[scott]

‘When everyone has money’.

Does everyone having money suddenly transform him into a UFA?

[exstatic]

Does everyone having money suddenly transform him into a UFA?

Nope. My bad. Thought you were nitpicking the year.

[Atl Spur]

5 guards? Okc is wilding!

[Atl Spur]

The game today is showing why having 3 good ball handlers (4 if you count Wemby ) to make solid reads and feed the post! Dylan’s the move.

[SpursGenius]

Haven't seen what in 100 years? I'm not following what you're saying?
a white boy athlete who dominates based on athletic ability. Doncic and Bird did it with court sense and feel fore the game. Both are below average athletes. Flagg doesnt have the court sense like Doncic or Bird. Not even close. If Flagg is Superstar successful he would be a new prototype similar to Wemby. Something never seen before.

[exstatic]

a white boy athlete who dominates based on athletic ability. Doncic and Bird did it with court sense and feel fore the game. Both are below average athletes. Flagg doesnt have the court sense like Doncic or Bird. Not even close. If Flagg is Superstar successful he would be a new prototype similar to Wemby. Something never seen before.

Only because he’s white. I mean,he’s basically Jason Tatum, minus the tan. He not a new type, just a new shade of an existing one.

[SpursGenius]

Only because he’s white. I mean,he’s basically Jason Tatum, minus the tan. He not a new type, just a new shade of an existing one.

Actually JT a good example. Heck Tatum is half white anyway. I dont thing Flagg has the wiggle drive JT does. JT slightly more quick twitch and can hit the three on the move or step back. Flagg can develop that i guess but havent seen it so far. Three huge games he lost in college- two he fell down trying to drive and in the finals he takes a fadeaway because he was scared he would fall again. This isnt sour grapes because we got the 2 pick but I just think Harper is more of a cant miss than Flagg at this point. Harper's game is SGA, Harden , Cade all in one. His shot will improve. White boy who has quick twitch moves (rare havent seen).

[Ice009]

What do you mean Tatum is half white? His father is black as he coached the NBL team in Australia that won the Championship last season.

[Atl Spur]

Wow! This 5 guard shit is wild…

[spursparker9]

OKC might be the team that can repeat since 2018.

Youngest team in the league. Best warchest for draft picks. Light years ahead of everyone with the 5 guards death lineups

[The Truth #6]

Caruso instead of Giddey seems like a huge improvement for the identity they have formed with defense. It seems like they SGA as the head of the snake and then tons of 3/D players.

I don't see the Spurs following that model. We could project to have more of an offensive identity, for now at least. Obviously, Victor is the glue for our defense and we have other potentially good defenders, but I see the team going for an identity of sharing the ball and dynamic movement. Probably have to just to share the ball with so many ball dominant players. Someone will eventually need to embrace the Manu 6th man role to hit our absolute ceiling. In short, I see the Spurs seeking well rounded role players with BBIQ. Better versions of Mamu, basically.

[Chomag]

Would freaking love PJ Washington on this team , he has that dog and toughness that we need in him. I don't think mavs will let him go though, not to join us anyway

[LeBowen]

Would freaking love PJ Washington on this team , he has that dog and toughness that we need in him. I don't think mavs will let him go though, not to join us anyway

They would most definitely let him go for the return of their 2030 swap.
The question is if Spurs would do it.

[Guru of Nothing]

PJ Washington is on an expiring contract ($14.2M). Does acquiring him include an extension, and does it include moving Vassell? This could be a great move for the Spurs, but what is the total cost?

[LeBowen]

PJ Washington is on an expiring contract ($14.2M). Does acquiring him include an extension, and does it include moving Vassell? This could be a great move for the Spurs, but what is the total cost?

I'd assume Spurs wouldn't trade for anyone on an expiring contract without an agreement that they'll sign an extension.
Fox's extension is probably already agreed.

[RC_Drunkford]

They would most definitely let him go for the return of their 2030 swap.
The question is if Spurs would do it.

I'd do it, because if we extend Fox and Sochan we most likely won't have enough cap space next offseason to sign that type of player. That means we will have to work out a trade for a PF regardless and I'd rather get him sooner than later.

[spurraider21]

Caruso instead of Giddey seems like a huge improvement for the identity they have formed with defense. It seems like they SGA as the head of the snake and then tons of 3/D players.

I don't see the Spurs following that model. We could project to have more of an offensive identity, for now at least. Obviously, Victor is the glue for our defense and we have other potentially good defenders, but I see the team going for an identity of sharing the ball and dynamic movement. Probably have to just to share the ball with so many ball dominant players. Someone will eventually need to embrace the Manu 6th man role to hit our absolute ceiling. In short, I see the Spurs seeking well rounded role players with BBIQ. Better versions of Mamu, basically.
rare trade that so far seems to have really worked out for both clubs

[Atl Spur]

This is why the spurs need sohan to handle the ball & penetrate sucessfully. Non dribblers are eaten alive by okc.

[exstatic]

This is why the spurs need sohan to handle the ball & penetrate sucessfully. Non dribblers are eaten alive by okc.

It’s also why we need the three PGs. If they cause enough havoc, the won’t be able to play Dort on Wemby.

[Atl Spur]

It’s also why we need the three PGs. If they cause enough havoc, the won’t be able to play Dort on Wemby.

I agree

[baseline bum]

They would most definitely let him go for the return of their 2030 swap.
The question is if Spurs would do it.

I doubt Dallas would, that swap tanked in value once they got Flagg.

[RC_Drunkford]

Am I the only one who's not scared of OKC at all?


- all 15 of their players are positive defenders according to defensive +/-

- their defense is the best in postseason history allowing 90.8 points per posession

- they are #1 in the NBA when it comes to fouling, allowing them to basically play football on defense

- they allow the most corner 3s, while allowing the 10th lowest percentage from that area

- they create the most liveball turnovers in the league


It seems that having 3 guards who are elite at getting to the rim and drawing fouls with Wemby in the middle should really help here. Also players who are elite at knocking down corner 3s like Barnes for example. All we really need is a PF who can bully Chet.

Defensively having Wemby in the middle certainly helps preventing SGA from getting to the rim and as far as I know Sochan had pretty good defensive metrics against him. They also go on long dry spells when you force them into shooting from outside.

The smartest thing is probably to guard SGA like the Spurs guarded Harden in the 2017 playoffs: with their hands up. That takes away SGA's forced foul calls, cause he likes to act like he's getting into his shooting motion once there's the slightest contact to his arm.

[LeBowen]

We'll see how their season ends, but they just got taken to 7 by a Denver team with 6.5 players, one of them being Russ and the other one being MPJ with one shoulder.
They're a great team, but nothing generational.

Spurs are on their own trajectory, we need to make the playoffs before we start worrying about potential matchups.

[poopbox]

We'll see how their season ends, but they just got taken to 7 by a Denver team with 6.5 players, one of them being Russ and the other one being MPJ with one shoulder.
They're a great team, but nothing generational.

Spurs are on their own trajectory, we need to make the playoffs before we start worrying about potential matchups.

The whistles they get on offense and the amount of extreme fouling they are allowed to get away with is generational.

Caruso did absolutely nothing but blatantly foul Jokic on defense. He should have fouled out on 6 straight possessions. There are players where he is just literally holding both of Jokic wrist trying to keep him from even raising his hands :lol

So yeah, OKC is going to be the toughest out in the playoffs for awhile, not because they are that good, but because whenever they can't make it across the finish line the refs carry them.

The nba has been heavily invested in OKC being good for a very long time. I still remember when they suspended Zbo for game 7 against the KD Russ thunder cause the league was scared shitless okc would loose in the 1st round:lol

[Ice009]

Why would the league want OKC to win now, though? I can understand before when they had KD, Westbrook and Harden as I think they were trying to start a rivalry between Lebron and KD as the best players in the league.

[RC_Drunkford]

Why would the league want OKC to win now, though? I can understand before when they had KD, Westbrook and Harden as I think they were trying to start a rivalry between Lebron and KD as the best players in the league.

same thing, to start the rivalry with Wemby

[Atl Spur]

I doubt Dallas would, that swap tanked in value once they got Flagg.

Why? What proven young talent do they possess? 5 years is a mighty long time from now!

[objective]

Mavs do need to cut salary, Flagg takes them over the 1st apron, they're looking at a payroll over $200 million.

Though I had heard speculation of them moving off Gafford instead, giving back the swap should do the trick.

Sadly, I think PJ makes too much to fit in the MLE by about 50k ... So it would be a lopsided trade that wouldn't save them as much money. Buy maybe the first year of the mle comes in higher just enough to make it work

I'd rather have John Collins by a large margin but his contract is harder to trade for plus Ainge is an ass who no one can work with

[spurraider21]

Why? What proven young talent do they possess? 5 years is a mighty long time from now!
the pick looks a lot worse now knowing they will have an experienced Flagg vs only being able to add a role player type like Carter Bryant this year

[Atl Spur]

the pick looks a lot worse now knowing they will have an experienced Flagg vs only being able to add a role player type like Carter Bryant this year

He’ll still need help….. the old guard will be gone!

[objective]

Quick notes on PJ Washington and John Collins

PJ is only 6-6.5 barefoot vs 6-8.25 for Collins, but +3.25 inches more wingspan and 0.5 more standing reach

Both shot very well from 3, 38.1 on 6.3 attempts per 100 possessions for PJ vs. 39.9% on 5.8 3pa

PJ 3.3 stocks per100 vs. 3.1

11.7 trb per 100 vs. 12.9

Now with more time to think about it, I like PJ more and more. Sure he's smaller, but his kind of salary combined with him being the low-risk type that no team with capspace would ever really try to poach ... He figures to be more manageable as an asset going forward.

Spurs will need a decent non-rookie-scale starter in the lineup who makes less than starter type money in the new environment. Having him already at 14.15 makes it easier to keep his cost down.

He's already proven he can be a useful defender in various lineups that had very good defensive ratings. And has proven he is capable of getting hot and performing from 3. And has proven he has the temperament to be a role playing finisher off of 2 superstars without crying too much about his touches.

Now all we need is the official MLE numbers to come in a little bit higher and they can take him back for the swap rights.

[objective]

And for comparison:

Barnes per 100
43.3% on 7.8 attempts
6.7 rebounds (!!!! Holy crap that's low)
1.1 stocks

Sochan per 100, if considered a PF
30.8% on 3.2 attempts
12.5 trb
2.6 stocks

[spursparker9]

OKC will sweep thru the WCF and Finals

[RC_Drunkford]

Quick notes on PJ Washington and John Collins

PJ is only 6-6.5 barefoot vs 6-8.25 for Collins, but +3.25 inches more wingspan and 0.5 more standing reach

Both shot very well from 3, 38.1 on 6.3 attempts per 100 possessions for PJ vs. 39.9% on 5.8 3pa

PJ 3.3 stocks per100 vs. 3.1

11.7 trb per 100 vs. 12.9

Now with more time to think about it, I like PJ more and more. Sure he's smaller, but his kind of salary combined with him being the low-risk type that no team with capspace would ever really try to poach ... He figures to be more manageable as an asset going forward.

Spurs will need a decent non-rookie-scale starter in the lineup who makes less than starter type money in the new environment. Having him already at 14.15 makes it easier to keep his cost down.

He's already proven he can be a useful defender in various lineups that had very good defensive ratings. And has proven he is capable of getting hot and performing from 3. And has proven he has the temperament to be a role playing finisher off of 2 superstars without crying too much about his touches.

Now all we need is the official MLE numbers to come in a little bit higher and they can take him back for the swap rights.

it‘s not that John Collins gonna cry about touches. You didn’t hear anything when he came off the bench in Utah. PJ is the better perimeter defender between the 2. I‘m fine with either one.

[The Truth #6]

Indy vs OKC would be an awesome, frenetic matchup.

[LeBowen]

Williams just made 3rd team all-NBA, 30% max extension eligible if he makes it again next season.

[scott]

Williams just made 3rd team all-NBA, 30% max extension eligible if he makes it again next season.

This is nice from our POV, because he'll obvious push to do the extension this offseason with escalator language for a rookie SuperMax (though of course he could have pushed for this anyway regardless of making 3rd team this year, but this gives him a little more leverage to ask for that). Hopefully it puts OKC in a tough position but for some reason I just feel like he signs a 25-27.5% max deal anyway.

[timtonymanu]

Spurs will have up to 4 really good players, they still need to round out the roster with depth though before they are even on the level of the Thunder.