BREAKING: Spurs Select F Carter Bryant 14th Overall in the 2025 NBA Draft

[picnroll]

Hi end I could see Bryant as a Rodman-eque typer defender, effective, energetic and annoying as fuck. Don’t know about the rebounding but he doe have the length, determination and quick second hop to be good at it. Have to hope to god his O is better.

[rascal]

Yeah, I cant imagine being guarded by Sochan, and Bryant for a whole game.

Bryant is better than Sochan. Bryant can get up higher and looks quicker. Sochan should be traded for a knock down shooter.

[Mr. Body]

Bryant is better than Sochan. Bryant can get up higher and looks quicker. Sochan should be traded for a knock down shooter.

Bryant hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball. Lmao

[Mr. Body]

Do you guys even realize how Keldon or Sochan would do in Summer League right now? They'd each score fifty points.

[Brazil]

Bryant defense upside is obvious but it will on depend on him being clever to stay out of foul trouble, he is sometimes all over the place. We know referees love giving FTs to elite guard ala SGA, Doncic etc... On the offensive side he has no handle he has to cut and dunk and make his 3s at a decent clip to be a viable option. lots of work to do

[ginobilized]

Carter Bryant's motor is insane. That is unteachable. After watching him in Summer League, I'm pretty certain that OKC would've grabbed him if he was available.
He needs to settle down a bit, but, he will be such a welcome defensive addition once he does settle down. He'll be our Amen Thompson.

[rascal]

Do you guys even realize how Keldon or Sochan would do in Summer League right now? They'd each score fifty points.

No way Sochan can get 50. He's not a good offensive player.

Bryant has a higher defensive potential than Sochan because he can jump and recover if a player gets past him. He's better physically than Sochan, quicker and jumps higher.

[rascal]

Bryant hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball. Lmao

Sochan has been in the league three years and still trying to learn how to shoot.

[Mr. Body]

No way Sochan can get 50. He's not a good offensive player.

Bryant has a higher defensive potential than Sochan because he can jump and recover if a player gets past him. He's better physically than Sochan, quicker and jumps higher.

Yeah, I figured you wouldn't understand this as puffing up Sochan as getting you to understand how bad the SL is. Yeah, absolutely would Sochan dominate Summer League, lol. And we're back to your bizarre fixation on Shaeden Sharpe here, aren't we?

[thOOdee]

Do you guys even realize how Keldon or Sochan would do in Summer League right now? They'd each score fifty points.

Was this supposed to be blue fonted? Not even sl could make them look that good. Maybe a couple 30 point games.

[SPURt]

Was this supposed to be blue fonted? Not even sl could make them look that good. Maybe a couple 30 point games.
What? :lol So summer league can’t make them look good then you concede they maybe could get 30 point games, which happens to be all Flagg needed to be crowned the next basketball God?

[spurraider21]

Yeah, I figured you wouldn't understand this as puffing up Sochan as getting you to understand how bad the SL is. Yeah, absolutely would Sochan dominate Summer League, lol. And we're back to your bizarre fixation on Shaeden Sharpe here, aren't we?
I don’t think current Sochan would be the best offensive player in summer league history, no

[jermaine]

I cant understand the pin Sochan against Bryant talk. Shhhit, our defense will be off the chain with Bryant at the 3 an Jeremy at the 4 with Wemby behind them.

[KobesAchilles]

Do you guys even realize how Keldon or Sochan would do in Summer League right now? They'd each score fifty points.
We don’t want or need KJ to score 50 points. We want him to play defense. Him not being able to is exactly why Bryant will get his minutes as the season progresses.

[KobesAchilles]

I cant understand the pin Sochan against Bryant talk. Shhhit, our defense will be off the chain with Bryant at the 3 a Jeremy at the 4 with Wemby behind them.
Bc Sochan can’t shoot worth shit and due to his lack of any semblance of a jumper in game he is an unstartable player.

[vagisil]

Some people still don't understand the difference between legit NBA players and the rest of humanity it seems. They may "suck" in your eyes but they definitely are better than 99.5% of everyone else. No amount of your hate can change that.

[spurraider21]

Some people still don't understand the difference between legit NBA players and the rest of humanity it seems. They may "suck" in your eyes but they definitely are better than 99.5% of everyone else. No amount of your hate can change that.
Nobody who comments on players sucking is saying so within the context of whether they suck against the typical population. It’s always within the context of other nba players.

or else every conversation about every player ever is just “dudes one of the best players in the world, top 0.2%, what a fucking beast”

meanwhile you are talking about some fuck like Jeff Ayres

[LeBowen]

due to his lack of any semblance of a jumper in game he is an unstartable player.

Hartenstein, Edey, Gobert, Hayes, Zubac, Duren, Allen, Adebayo, Ware, Wendell Carter Jr, Draymond, Giannis and Thompson twins.

That's the entire list of non-shooters who started in this season's playoffs.
10 legit bigs, Draymond who played most of his minutes at C and shot 27% on 5 attempts, Giannis and Thompson twins.

Unless Jeremy becomes a Rodman-level defender, he's not starting any games without a jumpshot because he certainly won't become a Giannis/Thompson level athlete.
Ausar wasn't a positive out there and even Amen struggled at times despite his S-tier athleticism and great playmaking skills.

The game has moved on past non-shooters at perimeter positions much like it's moved on past elite off the ball shooters who are traffic cones on defense.

[The Truth #6]

Sochan is working on his jumper. We'll see what happens. Hope for the best, expect the worst, etc etc. He WILL have a role IF he can be ok with less pay and less playing time. Though it would be sad, having him as a physical hockey-style goon, worst case scenario, is better than him off the team in my opinion.

As for his jumper, mild to moderate improvement seems reasonable. Having a consistent identifiable role is probably crucial, one that doesn't involve point guard or center. Just one of the forward spots, please, next to Kornet if needed.

Tangent about Kornet needing to get back to shooting 3s like in college, where according to Wiki, he has more made 3s for a 7 footer than any player in history of the NCAA, is for another thread...

[scott]

I'm not sure Sochan could score 50 in an empty gym, but he'd definitely dominate these G-League scrubs.

[KobesAchilles]

Hartenstein, Edey, Gobert, Hayes, Zubac, Duren, Allen, Adebayo, Ware, Wendell Carter Jr, Draymond, Giannis and Thompson twins.

That's the entire list of non-shooters who started in this season's playoffs.
10 legit bigs, Draymond who played most of his minutes at C and shot 27% on 5 attempts, Giannis and Thompson twins.

Unless Jeremy becomes a Rodman-level defender, he's not starting any games without a jumpshot because he certainly won't become a Giannis/Thompson level athlete.
Ausar wasn't a positive out there and even Amen struggled at times despite his S-tier athleticism and great playmaking skills.

The game has moved on past non-shooters at perimeter positions much like it's moved on past elite off the ball shooters who are traffic cones on defense.
And if Sochan played for any of those teams that would be nice for him. Having a 4 out of 5 three point threats on the floor certainly makes Hartenstein playable in that line up. In Sochans starting line up we have one legitimate 3 point shooter in the starting line up.

For the Spurs he is an unstartable player (well I mean technically we have started Bryn Foreskin so I should be more specific) for the Spurs to have a shot at making the playoffs and having a winning record for the first time in 7 years then he is an unstartable player on the team.

[The Truth #6]

Sochan and Carter may have a good competition for defensive fireplug who apprentices at the local Masonry Union. Let the games begin! Let the cathedrals be small! Or something like that.

[ace3g]

DMGyzIaMq1X

[Mnky]

I cant understand the pin Sochan against Bryant talk. Shhhit, our defense will be off the chain with Bryant at the 3 an Jeremy at the 4 with Wemby behind them.

Yea when you have a couple guys who will always been on the court with them in Wemby Fox and Castle who all have a 30% usage rate, it makes tons of sense to surround them with defense to do the dirty work. Let your stars work. Let them chill on defense

[Mnky]

Do you guys even realize how Keldon or Sochan would do in Summer League right now? They'd each score fifty points.

:lol it's funny cuz it's true.

[DAF86]

Spurs shooting coaches already doing work on Bryant's shot, I see. :lol

[DAF86]

:lol it's funny cuz it's true.

It literally isn't.

[Dejounte]

On top of being the worst player all game - how did ingram have three times as many rebounds as him. Carter is supposedly longer and more athletic but he cant get any boards?

[DAF86]

On top of being the worst player all game - how did ingram have three times as many rebounds as him. Carter is supposedly longer and more athletic but he cant get any boards?

It isn't easy to get high #'s in rebounds when you are always guarding the other team's best player. You can't contest shots and go after rebounds at the same time, tbh.

[SpursFan86]

Yeah, probably burn the tape on this one…pretty brutal all-around. Least he had a couple of dunks :lol

[Mnky]

It literally isn't.

Literally? Prolly not. In general? Absolutely. As bad as the Spurs young players are, the summer league is so much worse.

[Mr. Body]

Guys, I can't believe I'm the one to say this, but we knew he would take time. It's a process.

[DAF86]

Literally? Prolly not. In general? Absolutely. As bad as the Spurs young players are, the summer league is so much worse.

Would Keldon be getting Pts in these games? Probably. He loves to put up empty numbers vs lesser competition when the stakes are low.

Sochan? Nop, he doesn't have the skillset for it. He's not a primary scoring option. DJG would probably still be scoring more than him.

Which only goes to show you how irrelevant that comment was since Sochan >>>> Keldon in an actual NBA setting.

[Dejounte]

It isn't easy to get high #'s in rebounds when you are always guarding the other team's best player. You can't contest shots and go after rebounds at the same time, tbh.
Wow you’re right he was defending some elite talent out there. No wonder he couldnt rebound

[Bill_Brasky]

I think he is a decent talent on defense but he got cooked a few times. Filipowski was killing it. Has plenty of work ahead of him.

[DAF86]

Wow you’re right he was defending some elite talent out there. No wonder he couldnt rebound

It doesn't matter if the talent is elite or not, he was still defending the other's team primary option, therefore the guy that usually takes the most shots and/or creates for others, which then usually leaves you out of position to go grab boards.

[TheDoctor]

Not sure he should start on day one...

https://media.tenor.com/xRBjVy88neQAAAAM/joker-kukkendare.gif

[DAF86]

The shooting is starting to become a concern. He needs a good shooting night to get out of this funk and gain some confidence.

[Mnky]

Would Keldon be getting Pts in these games? Probably. He loves to put up empty numbers vs lesser competition when the stakes are low.

Sochan? Nop, he doesn't have the skillset for it. He's not a primary scoring option. DJG would probably still be scoring more than him.

Which only goes to show you how irrelevant that comment was since Sochan >>>> Keldon in an actual NBA setting.

Your argument is Yes Keldon scores(averaged 20ppg in the real league btw) and Sochan wouldn't have a game designed for him (which makes it a completely different situation than the one in reference) so the comment about NBA players being able to play well in summer league is ...not true? Bruh.

[scottspurs]

Yeah I’m back to wanting to stick him in the Gleague for a year. Big project

[TheDoctor]

Do you guys even realize how Keldon or Sochan would do in Summer League right now? They'd each score fifty points.

Don't be delusional fam.

[DAF86]

Your argument is Yes Keldon scores(averaged 20ppg in the real league btw) and Sochan wouldn't have a game designed for him (which makes it a completely different situation than the one in reference) so the comment about NBA players being able to play well in summer league is ...not true? Bruh.

What? I don't get what you were trying to say. Say it in Argentinian so maybe I can understand, tbh. :lol

My whole point is that Sochan wouldn't be putting up high pts total in the G-league, 'cause that's just not his game. I think it was clear to understand, tbh.

[Mnky]

What? I don't get what you were trying to say. Say it in Argentinian so maybe I can understand, tbh. :lol

My whole point is that Sochan wouldn't be putting up high pts total in the G-league, 'cause that's just not his game. I think it was clear to understand, tbh.

So Sochan wouldn't be putting up high points, not Keldon. That's more believable. He's 21. If he went into the summer league with the gameplan designed around him like the guys scoring a lot, he'd definitely be able to score. It's not his game and not his role. If he can drop 30 in the league he can drop 30 in the summer league.

He would definitely look good as a 21 yr old rookie in summer league. Summer league is worse than the g league. Summer league players are trying to make a g league roster. It isn't so much saying the Keldon and Sochan are good offensively, it's staring just how bad summer league really is that these bad offensive players would get buckets.

[DAF86]

So Sochan wouldn't be putting up high points, not Keldon. That's more believable. He's 21. If he went into the summer league with the gameplan designed around him like the guys scoring a lot, he'd definitely be able to score. It's not his game and not his role. If he can drop 30 in the league he can drop 30 in the summer league.

He would definitely look good as a 21 yr old rookie in summer league. Summer league is worse than the g league. Summer league players are trying to make a g league roster. It isn't so much saying the Keldon and Sochan are good offensively, it's staring just how bad summer league really is that these bad offensive players would get buckets.

Sochan got 30 once in how many games? What kind of game plan can you design to make a non-shooting, below average dribbler score in bunches in summer league?

He scores mainly off rolls and cuts to the basket, he would depend on his teamates to get buckets, and as you said, teammates aren't very good in summer league. You are sorely mistaken if you think Sochan could be a 20 ppg guy in summer league, tbh.

[Mnky]

Sochan got 30 once in how many games? What kind of game plan can you design to make a non-shooting, below average dribbler score in bunches in summer league?

He scores mainly off rolls and cuts to the basket, he would depend on his teamates to get buckets, and as you said, teammates aren't very good in summer league. You are sorely mistaken if you think Sochan could be a 20 ppg guy in summer league, tbh.

You're sorely overestimating summer league. Bad offensive players in the NBA look like legit players in the G league. They don't pan out often. Once again, it's about how bad summer league is in comparison.

[DAF86]

You're sorely overestimating summer league. Bad offensive players in the NBA look like legit players in the G league. They don't pan out often. Once again, it's about how bad summer league is in comparison.

All of those players can at least shoot free throws with both hands, tbh.

You are dragging this into making me shit on Sochan, who I still like, but I think you are the one overestimating Sochan's offensive game. Ben Wallace is a HoF but he isn't suddenly going to turn into prime Hakeem Olajuwon vs G-league competition. Same happens with Sochan. To score a lot you need to have the ball in your hands, you aren't going to score 20+ a game on just cuts and put backs. You need to have on ball skills, and that just isn't Sochan's game.

[Mr. Body]

Don't be delusional fam.

Slightly exaggerating obvs but I'm not wrong.

[The Truth #6]

All of those players can at least shoot free throws with both hands, tbh.

You are dragging this into making me shit on Sochan, who I still like, but I think you are the one overestimating Sochan's offensive game. Ben Wallace is a HoF but he isn't suddenly going to turn into prime Hakeem Olajuwon vs G-league competition. Same happens with Sochan. To score a lot you need to have the ball in your hands, you aren't going to score 20+ a game on just cuts and put backs. You need to have on ball skills, and that just isn't Sochan's game.

Hey, you're talking about a former NBA starting point guard!

[DAF86]

Hey, you're talking about a former NBA starting point guard!

Speaking of which, Laprovittola would probably score more in summer league than Sochan, tbh.

[Mnky]

All of those players can at least shoot free throws with both hands, tbh.

You are dragging this into making me shit on Sochan, who I still like, but I think you are the one overestimating Sochan's offensive game. Ben Wallace is a HoF but he isn't suddenly going to turn into prime Hakeem Olajuwon vs G-league competition. Same happens with Sochan. To score a lot you need to have the ball in your hands, you aren't going to score 20+ a game on just cuts and put backs. You need to have on ball skills, and that just isn't Sochan's game.

I pointed out several times it was about the summer league being really bad and youre still fixated on Sochan.

Don't know what to tell ya buddy.

[Raven]

And if Sochan played for any of those teams that would be nice for him. Having a 4 out of 5 three point threats on the floor certainly makes Hartenstein playable in that line up. In Sochans starting line up we have one legitimate 3 point shooter in the starting line up.

For the Spurs he is an unstartable player (well I mean technically we have started Bryn Foreskin so I should be more specific) for the Spurs to have a shot at making the playoffs and having a winning record for the first time in 7 years then he is an unstartable player on the team.

if sochan plays 40mpg and goes 0-200 from 3 for the season, the spurs should still comfortably get into the playoffs. In fact, it would be this franchise's biggest shame.

[Raven]

On Bryant though, I think chalking stuff up to summer league is just coping, the guy is terrible on both ends. Two years in g-league seem like a minimum but even then I don't see the value in him, he's not cidy that you can say he's a specimen, he's just slightly taller than most guys his weight, but his length isn't special in today's nba.

[Ice009]

So you think he sucks on both ends of the court?

[Raven]

So you think he sucks on both ends of the court?

absolutely. gets beaten on every possession then goes for a wild block attempt, which against summerleague competition can sometimes make him look good, but in the nba he'd get called for a foul EVERY TIME. And he's still fouling a ton, even with lottery pick bailouts.

[Brazil]

The shooting is starting to become a concern. He needs a good shooting night to get out of this funk and gain some confidence.

:lol only starting ?

[SpursFan86]

I'm inclined to not worry so much about the shooting. He shot well in college, and his mechanics are respectable. Obviously there's some chance that he can't adapt to the new 3P line or that his season at Arizona was a fluke, but I'll take the position that this is a sample size thing that is bound to revert closer to his mean. The important thing is that he stays confident and keeps firing...there were a couple times last night where he was open and then hesitated to shoot, and that's the sort of thing that concerns me more.

People need to relax a bit tbh. He was always going to be a bit of a project. It's not some death spell if he has to spend a good amount of his rookie year in the G-League. Anyone who thought this guy was going to be starting or playing 20+ mpg right off the bat was delusional in the first place.

[Eaglenole2002]

I said after the draft that I thought Bryant would spend a lot of time in Austin. I haven’t seen anything to change my mind, in fact I’m even more certain of that now. Offensively he is pretty lost. I don’t think it would serve him well to stash him in the corner and shoot open 3s. He needs to learn how to attack close outs, make a pass off that attacked close out, and he needs to learn how to beat a man off the dribble. I think it would be beneficial for him to have a longer leash to make mistakes over 30+ minutes a night there rather than a few minutes here or there in SA. Then he can scale his game down to fit in.

As for his defense, I agree with the notion that it’s being overrated. The highlight clips are spectacular, but he does get best off the dribble and relies on wild Chase down blocks. The rotations can be a little slow, which is not un expected for a rookie. He is getting pretty handsy on the perimeter. Unless he’s on OKC, he probably won’t get that kind of deference from the refs.

[BatManu20]

Yea no way to sugarcoat it. He's been absolute dogshit offensively. Defense is overrated too, but I'm more worried about the shooting. Through 5 Summer League games, he's:

8/40 shooting (20%) and 4/25 from 3 (16%). Awful.

Worse than that, he looks pretty lost out there offensively. Doesn't know what to do when he has the ball and usually just fires up a bad contested shot. His attempts aren't even close to going in. None of them. All but one of his makes have come off dunks and lobs. No reason to panic and overreact just yet, but he definitely needs to spend a lot of time in Austin this season tbh. He's super raw. A lot to work on for the Rook.

[BSfromTX]

He is very young. His mental game needs a lot of work, but I believe he will figure it out. I certainly wouldn't call him a bust

[Mr. Body]

I said after the draft that I thought Bryant would spend a lot of time in Austin. I haven’t seen anything to change my mind, in fact I’m even more certain of that now. Offensively he is pretty lost. I don’t think it would serve him well to stash him in the corner and shoot open 3s. He needs to learn how to attack close outs, make a pass off that attacked close out, and he needs to learn how to beat a man off the dribble. I think it would be beneficial for him to have a longer leash to make mistakes over 30+ minutes a night there rather than a few minutes here or there in SA. Then he can scale his game down to fit in.

As for his defense, I agree with the notion that it’s being overrated. The highlight clips are spectacular, but he does get best off the dribble and relies on wild Chase down blocks. The rotations can be a little slow, which is not un expected for a rookie. He is getting pretty handsy on the perimeter. Unless he’s on OKC, he probably won’t get that kind of deference from the refs.

Pretty much. He's going to take time.

On offense, I'm less worried about the shots not going down as what shots he's taking. The hesitation is fine. He's learning when to shoot and doesn't believe in himself. Okay. My things are that he can't blow by defenders. With his athleticism he should be a paint touch almost all the time and he gets jammed instead, forcing him into turnaround midranges, which are just bad shots.

I'd want him to work on his handles constantly. They're far too rudimentary, almost Reed Sheppard level (gotta get a dig in). He's not even at the point of adding counters. He just can't do anything on the court right now. Again, that's fine. He needs to put the work in.

[John B]

The ball handling was not bad, except he almost gave away when he slipped and caused a jump ball. Already he’s an elite defender who prides himself on defense. But he needs to develop more self-creation in Austin. He has good form and it’s just a matter of getting open shots.

[Uriel]

Who would you guys rather have: Bryant or Salaun?

[Mr. Body]

The ball handling was not bad, except he almost gave away when he slipped and caused a jump ball. Already he’s an elite defender who prides himself on defense. But he needs to develop more self-creation in Austin. He has good form and it’s just a matter of getting open shots.

I would say his ball handling is pretty poor. He can't break down a defender at all.

[Raven]

Who would you guys rather have: Bryant or Salaun?

Drake Powell tbh

[LeBowen]

I would say his ball handling is pretty poor. He can't break down a defender at all.

Spurs will obviously try to develop every aspect of his game, but I doubt he'll ever need to break defenders down in actual games.
Catch and shoot, off the ball movement, cuts, vertical threat and being able to attack a closeout with a straight line drive will be his game.

[Mr. Body]

Spurs will obviously try to develop every aspect of his game, but I doubt he'll ever need to break defenders down in actual games.
Catch and shoot, off the ball movement, cuts, vertical threat and being able to attack a closeout with a straight line drive will be his game.

I don't see any reason why he shouldn't learn. Especially at least making teams pay if they come out hard to contest his three ball. I don't want a lottery pick to be consigned to a 3&D anyway.

[Eaglenole2002]

I don't see any reason why he shouldn't learn. Especially at least making teams pay if they come out hard to contest his three ball. I don't want a lottery pick to be consigned to a 3&D anyway.

Yep. A 3-and-D player at pick 14 is a fine outcome, but that shouldn’t be the goal. Danny Green was a helluva player for a championship team, but it sure would have been nice if he could dribble, pass, finish at the rim. The same for Bowen. Those two just didn’t have it in them to be more than that, and that’s OK. Maybe Bryant follows the same path, but there’s no reason for that to be determined in the next year. Let him play and develop in Austin.

[Strategic]

Just keep him away from Sochan’s shooting coach, and away from Sochan too.

[DAF86]

I pointed out several times it was about the summer league being really bad and youre still fixated on Sochan.

Don't know what to tell ya buddy.

Because I don't care how bad SL is, Sochan's skillset still doesn't translate as a primary option at that level. How dificult is it for YOU to grasp that concept? :lol

[scott]

Let's be honest... Bryant is your typical Brian Wright mid-round, raw, "tools" pick. All of these guys were sub 10ppg career scorers in college (Vassell did put up 12.4 ppg his second year as a starter, his average is drug down by his freshman year)

2020 Pick #11 - Devin Vassell - S, 63 GP, 30 GS, 25.0 pts/100, 9.6 reb/100, 3.3 ast/100, .475 / .417 / .720, 10.9 bpm, 6.4 obpm, 4.2 dbpm, 124.7 ortg, 94.1 drtg
2021 Pick #12 - Josh Primo - Fr, 30 GP, 19 GS, 19.4 pts/100, 8.0 reb/100, 2.0 ast/100, .431 / .381 / .750, 3.7 bpm, 1.6 obpm, 2.1 dbpm, 107.8 ortg, 98.7 drtg
2022 Pick #9 - Jeremy Sochan - Fr, 30 GP, 1 GS, 21.4 pts/100, 14.8 reb/100, 4.1 ast/100, .474 / .296 / .589, 8.0 bpm, 3.6 obpm, 4.4 dbpm, 111.7 ortg, 89.8 drtg
2025 Pick #14 - Carter Bryant - Fr, 37 GP. 5 GS, 19.2 pts/100, 12.1 reb/100, 2.9 ast/100, .460 / .371 / .695, 8.8 bpm, 3.5 obpm, 5.3 dbpm, 116.5 ortg, 100.1 drtg

Brian just can't help himself with these guys. They are all decent swings in the mid round (well, except one of them) and Vassell has become a decent NBA player at least. I see Bryant having the same career as Sochan, being a plus defender (though Bryant has a ways to go but I like his intensity and tools) and it will all depend on whether he can shoot.

[Mr. Body]

Yep. A 3-and-D player at pick 14 is a fine outcome, but that shouldn’t be the goal. Danny Green was a helluva player for a championship team, but it sure would have been nice if he could dribble, pass, finish at the rim. The same for Bowen. Those two just didn’t have it in them to be more than that, and that’s OK. Maybe Bryant follows the same path, but there’s no reason for that to be determined in the next year. Let him play and develop in Austin.

It's a fine outcome, okay sure. But saying that he shouldn't be developed more than that is kind of weird.

[Ice009]

Now that I've had some time to think about it, I'm not that impressed at all.

Outside of one of two handfuls of great defensive players, he hasn't done much out there. He's been horrible on offense and on defense, if he doesn't make a good play, he's getting blown by and tries to recover and make a play (fortunately, he is making some great recovery plays).

[Mnky]

Because I don't care how bad SL is, Sochan's skillset still doesn't translate as a primary option at that level. How dificult is it for YOU to grasp that concept? :lol

You're still fixated on Sochan. It was about summer league being bad. Bench players across the NBA would look like stars in summer league. A bench squad would obliterate a summer g league team. A g league team would beat a summer league team. The majority of NBA players( the best 300 or so players in the world) absolutely have enough skill set to score in summer league as a primary option. Which was the original argument. You can't magically change the entire situation to say if I don't give them the ball they won't score. :lol

[TheDoctor]

You're still fixated on Sochan. It was about summer league being bad. Bench players across the NBA would look like stars in summer league. A bench squad would obliterate a summer g league team. A g league team would beat a summer league team. The majority of NBA players( the best 300 or so players in the world) absolutely have enough skill set to score in summer league as a primary option. Which was the original argument. You can't magically change the entire situation to say if I don't give them the ball they won't score. :lol

I think you both should get a room and discuss your Gorgonites Team takes on private.

[DAF86]

You're still fixated on Sochan. It was about summer league being bad. Bench players across the NBA would look like stars in summer league. A bench squad would obliterate a summer g league team. A g league team would beat a summer league team. The majority of NBA players( the best 300 or so players in the world) absolutely have enough skill set to score in summer league as a primary option. Which was the original argument. You can't magically change the entire situation to say if I don't give them the ball they won't score. :lol

No, they don't. You say I'm fixating on Sochan, but I gave you Ben Wallace as an example of a hall of famer that wouldn't be a primary option in summer league either.

You can agree or disagree, but saying I'm fixating on "X" or "Z" player is retarded. I'm clearly telling to you that certain NBA players don't have the skillset to put up big scoring numbers in Summer League or the G-league, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, they are just not scorers. Is that clear to you?

I swear to God if you respond again with the ":blah you are fixated on Sochan :blah" shit, I'm gonna think you are clinically retarded.

[KobesAchilles]

I don’t really see why we would want Bryant to be more than a 3&D player for the first 4 years of his career. Having a great wing defender who can make 3s is necessary for any championship team. I can’t really think of a team that won a championship who didn’t have one of those players.

We have 4 high usage players on the team. For the team to really gel we need Bryant to just be the catch and shoot, high energy defensive player mold than a guy beating people off the dribble and creating shots for himself. We need a 2012 Kawhi Leonard on this team. Maybe after his rookie contract is nearly up and he’s 23, we can add more to his plate. But really he doesn’t need it for him to be successful for our team.

[Rocalcio]

And if Sochan played for any of those teams that would be nice for him. Having a 4 out of 5 three point threats on the floor certainly makes Hartenstein playable in that line up. In Sochans starting line up we have one legitimate 3 point shooter in the starting line up.

For the Spurs he is an unstartable player (well I mean technically we have started Bryn Foreskin so I should be more specific) for the Spurs to have a shot at making the playoffs and having a winning record for the first time in 7 years then he is an unstartable player on the team.

OKC doesn't have that many 3pts threats in their starting line up

[Raven]

I don’t really see why we would want Bryant to be more than a 3&D player for the first 4 years of his career. Having a great wing defender who can make 3s is necessary for any championship team. I can’t really think of a team that won a championship who didn’t have one of those players.

We have 4 high usage players on the team. For the team to really gel we need Bryant to just be the catch and shoot, high energy defensive player mold than a guy beating people off the dribble and creating shots for himself. We need a 2012 Kawhi Leonard on this team. Maybe after his rookie contract is nearly up and he’s 23, we can add more to his plate. But really he doesn’t need it for him to be successful for our team.

i agree in spirit, but what stops the malaki's of the world from being that guy? Or anyone slightly taller for that matter.. why not cidy then? If 3 point shooting and length is all you're asking, that's a very easy to find player.

[KobesAchilles]

OKC doesn't have that many 3pts threats in their starting line up
SGA
Dort
Williams
Chet
4 players who are all 3 point threats.

[KobesAchilles]

i agree in spirit, but what stops the malaki's of the world from being that guy? Or anyone slightly taller for that matter.. why not cidy then? If 3 point shooting and length is all you're asking, that's a very easy to find player.
If it’s so easy to find, why haven’t we found it since Kawhi left? Sidy can’t shoot worth shit. And Malaki wasn’t the projected defender Carter Bryant is and really isn’t the athlete or had the measurables Bryant had.

[exstatic]

No, they don't. You say I'm fixating on Sochan, but I gave you Ben Wallace as an example of a hall of famer that wouldn't be a primary option in summer league either.

You can agree or disagree, but saying I'm fixating on "X" or "Z" player is retarded. I'm clearly telling to you that certain NBA players don't have the skillset to put up big scoring numbers in Summer League or the G-league, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, they are just not scorers. Is that clear to you?

I swear to God if you respond again with the ":blah you are fixated on Sochan :blah" shit, I'm gonna think you are clinically retarded.

Your example doesn’t disprove his theory. Ben Wallace never scored in double digits, so he would easily slide into the 150 players that he said wouldn’t dominate SL scoring. He would probably even be bottom 50 of the current roughly 450 nba players.

[Russ]

Michael Cooper of the Lakers, to whom I compare Carter Bryant, averaged 8.9 points for his career, played great defense, won five rings and is in the Basketball Hall of Fame.

[Mnky]

No, they don't. You say I'm fixating on Sochan, but I gave you Ben Wallace as an example of a hall of famer that wouldn't be a primary option in summer league either.

You can agree or disagree, but saying I'm fixating on "X" or "Z" player is retarded. I'm clearly telling to you that certain NBA players don't have the skillset to put up big scoring numbers in Summer League or the G-league, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, they are just not scorers. Is that clear to you?

I swear to God if you respond again with the ":blah you are fixated on Sochan :blah" shit, I'm gonna think you are clinically retarded.

NBA players are better than summer league players. Especially Hall of fame players. It would be the same as when the bench players go to free runs and drop a 50 piece. You don't seem to understand the gap in skill.

[Mnky]

I think you both should get a room and discuss your Gorgonites Team takes on private.

My bad.

[spurraider21]

I don’t really see why we would want Bryant to be more than a 3&D player for the first 4 years of his career. Having a great wing defender who can make 3s is necessary for any championship team. I can’t really think of a team that won a championship who didn’t have one of those players.

We have 4 high usage players on the team. For the team to really gel we need Bryant to just be the catch and shoot, high energy defensive player mold than a guy beating people off the dribble and creating shots for himself. We need a 2012 Kawhi Leonard on this team. Maybe after his rookie contract is nearly up and he’s 23, we can add more to his plate. But really he doesn’t need it for him to be successful for our team.
bold claim these days tbh

[KobesAchilles]

bold claim these days tbh
Just has to hit 29 open ones to pass our other guy next season. But I was referring to the people who would be disappointed if all Carter became was a 3&D guy. Dort is invaluable to OKC as one of those guys. Imagine if Carter becomes Dort level, would these same people truly be “disappointed” in that with our 14th pick

[Rocalcio]

SGA
Dort
Williams
Chet
4 players who are all 3 point threats.

They’re clearly not elite, Vassell is as good as them, Barnes is better, Fox could be as good as SGA, and Wemby is as good as Holmgren.

[tonight...you]

They’re clearly not elite, Vassell is as good as them, Barnes is better, Fox could be as good as SGA, and Wemby is as good as Holmgren.
I uh... huh?

Fox as good as the MVP? SGA is clearly not elite?
Vassell is as good as which?
Barnes is better than who and how?
Wemby is only as good as Holmgren?

What is happening where you are?

I'm calling an Intervention!

https://media.tenor.com/XSM9MdI8Yx8AAAAM/its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-iasip.gif

[Raven]

I uh... huh?

Fox as good as the MVP? SGA is clearly not elite?
Vassell is as good as which?
Barnes is better than who and how?
Wemby is only as good as Holmgren?

What is happening where you are?

I'm calling an Intervention!

https://media.tenor.com/XSM9MdI8Yx8AAAAM/its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-iasip.gif

think he meant shooting triples

[tonight...you]

think he meant shooting triples
Gotcha. Thanks.

[Raven]

If it’s so easy to find, why haven’t we found it since Kawhi left? Sidy can’t shoot worth shit. And Malaki wasn’t the projected defender Carter Bryant is and really isn’t the athlete or had the measurables Bryant had.

well the assumption is that you'd be spending 3 years training him to become a decent 3point shooter from only the corner. Since right now he's about 3 years away from being as good of a shooter as rookie sochan, I think my question is appropriate. Malaki had great measurables for the position

[Leetonidas]

They’re clearly not elite, Vassell is as good as them, Barnes is better, Fox could be as good as SGA, and Wemby is as good as Holmgren.


Uhhh what?? Average 3pt % in 2025 was 36%

SGA: 37.5% - above average
Jdub: 36.5% - slightly above average
Dort: 41.2% - elite
Chet: 37.9% - above average

Compared to our guys:

Fox: 27.4% - bad
Wemby: 35.2% - below average
Vassell: 36.8% - slightly above average
Barnes: 43.3% - elite
Sochan: 30.8% - bad
Castle: 28.5% - bad

(added Sochan/Castle since we're not entirely certain what the SL will look like in 2026)

Spurs have nowhere near the shooting that OKC has in their starting lineup. Fox could be as good as SGA? Based on what? Barnes is the only good shooter and his defense/rebounding are trash unlike OKC's players. Vassell, for all the talk of him being a good shooter, is barely above average at it. OKC is stacked with three point threats. The only player in their SL that isnt a threat is Hartenstein

[buttsR4rebounding]

IMO at best CB sees time with the A team the second half of the season. My money would be on a few spot appearances because of injuries. So far in summer league he is shooting 21.4% and 18.5% from 3--ouch! He looks decent against summer league competition on defense and you can see the potential for sure, but he would foul out in 10 minutes trying to guard NBA level talent. He needs lots of development. Good thing is he's only 19 years old. I don't think we will see a positive contribution from him until the second half of next season. Hopefully he makes the big 3rd year jump so often discussed on this forum. That's the best case scenario here that has any significant degree of probability.

[TD 21]

I realize it's par for the course with most rookies and there's plenty to be encouraged about with him obviously, but can this team ever draft someone and have them immediately shoot as well or better than advertised?

Virtually every time they've got to be an abject failure in this regard from the jump.

[The Truth #6]

Carter's 69% FT at college probably got overlooked because he was making 3s generally well. A good shooter ideally should have a better FT %. I suppose the warning sign was there.

[Russ]

Carter's 69% FT at college probably got overlooked because he was making 3s generally well. A good shooter ideally should have a better FT %. I suppose the warning sign was there.

That's the only stat (out of all these comments) that somewhat disillusions me.

But I still like the kid.

[Mr. Body]

Bryant shot 59 free throws in 37 games. I'm not sure that's a ton to go by. (He shot 105 three pointers.)

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Right now, what separates Carter from 1st year Sochan? Is he better defensively already (from just this short SL view)?

[exstatic]

Carter's 69% FT at college probably got overlooked because he was making 3s generally well. A good shooter ideally should have a better FT %. I suppose the warning sign was there.


That's the only stat (out of all these comments) that somewhat disillusions me.

But I still like the kid.

He shot 1.6.FTs per game,and 2.8 three pointers. I think I’m going to weight the 3 point percentage more highly.

He made 38/59 FTs. If he makes just 6 more all year, he’s a. 75% guy and you’re not worried about it at all.

[spurraider21]

He shot 1.6.FTs per game,and 2.8 three pointers. I think I’m going to weight the 3 point percentage more highly.

He made 38/59 FTs. If he makes just 6 more all year, he’s a. 75% guy and you’re not worried about it at all.
what if he just made 3 less?

[KobesAchilles]

They’re clearly not elite, Vassell is as good as them, Barnes is better, Fox could be as good as SGA, and Wemby is as good as Holmgren.
Why are you including Barnes? In this scenario Barnes would be on the bench and Sochan would be the starter. So you can’t include Barnes in this at all. Besides Vassell, every other starter (Fox, Castle, Wemby, and Sochan) are all subpar shooters. My premise is that Sochan can’t be a starter on our team and we make the playoffs due solely to the fact that we don’t have shooters in our starting lineup.

Someone else brought up OKC and them playing Harenstein and I responded that OKC has good shooters who are actual threats from beyond the arc. We don’t have those in our SL.

Now as far as Carter goes, I believe it’s too early to start him. But honestly is there any reason he shouldn’t be getting KJ’s minutes? I’m salivating at the idea of a bench unit of Champ, Bryant, Kornet, Harper, and Sochan. The defensive prowess of that unit would be off the charts and I think would solve the whole we get down big when Wemby goes to the bench problem

[scott]

Right now, what separates Carter from 1st year Sochan? Is he better defensively already (from just this short SL view)?

From my amateur vantage point, seems like he's not as good a defender as rookie Sochan, but he's starting off from a better place as far as shooting talent and offensive IQ.

With that said, I see them as slightly different but similar prospects.

[SpursBills]

Expecting any more than a pure off-ball wing offensively is purely wishful thinking at this point. Shane Battier, Danny Green - that's the blueprint; neither of these guys ever averaged 12+ at any point in their careers except Battier's rookie season, and yet were the highest impact off ball wings of the last generation. This should be the reasonable blueprint for Bryant.

Looking for a couple things these next two seasons:

1. That three point shot has to come around. It's harder for him because he plays a high energy style and it's harder to shoot straight when you're tired (Curry is a god shooting the way he does with his playstyle), but it needs to come around. Spot up, relocation, single dribble. He shot 80+% FT on a higher sample size in HS, so his touch is probably decent.

2. Defensive rep - OKC taught me that half of what makes for a good defender in the NBA is how much you're allowed to foul the other team. As good defenders get a better rep, they get to foul more without getting called. I like how Bryant is talking about defense all the time, seems like he's a good kid, and isn't afraid to play physical. The more the media recognizes him as a good physical defender, the more leeway for "physical" defense he's going to get, and the more he'll be able to leverage his athleticism and physicality.

3. Passing - I don't care if he functions as a pure off ball wing, you can't be an effective 100% pure play finishing wing if you're not an elite movement shooter, which Bryant has a low likelihood of achieving. Bryant needs to process faster and learn connectivity - too many times I saw him during summer league with the ball just get stuck - against good defenses he's going to get swarmed and turn it over or kill possessions. Or he'd throw a weak pass that'd lead to a turnover.

Solve these three things and you've got a high level playoff starter for the next 10-15 years

[Russ]

From my amateur vantage point, seems like he's not as good a defender as rookie Sochan, but he's starting off from a better place as far as shooting talent and offensive IQ.

With that said, I see them as slightly different but similar prospects.

Let's cut to the chase. Let's get to the elephant in the room that will be important moving forward.

Sochan is a knucklehead and Bryant isn't.

[exstatic]

what if he just made 3 less?

I’d still trust the higher volume of 3 pointers.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Let's cut to the chase. Let's get to the elephant in the room that will be important moving forward.

Sochan is a knucklehead and Bryant isn't.

Meh. I couldn't care less...

Seems like the talk when Sochan was drafted was about how he needs to develop his outside shot. Then, Pop made him a PG (of which I would say he was marginal at) that stopped that development. It will be interesting to see if he can pick it back up and make it work for him. Essentially, he's an outside shot away from starting over Vassell.

Hopefully, Carter won't have a year or two derailment from his 3-D development.

[scott]

Expecting any more than a pure off-ball wing offensively is purely wishful thinking at this point. Shane Battier, Danny Green - that's the blueprint; neither of these guys ever averaged 12+ at any point in their careers except Battier's rookie season, and yet were the highest impact off ball wings of the last generation. This should be the reasonable blueprint for Bryant.

Looking for a couple things these next two seasons:

1. That three point shot has to come around. It's harder for him because he plays a high energy style and it's harder to shoot straight when you're tired (Curry is a god shooting the way he does with his playstyle), but it needs to come around. Spot up, relocation, single dribble. He shot 80+% FT on a higher sample size in HS, so his touch is probably decent.

2. Defensive rep - OKC taught me that half of what makes for a good defender in the NBA is how much you're allowed to foul the other team. As good defenders get a better rep, they get to foul more without getting called. I like how Bryant is talking about defense all the time, seems like he's a good kid, and isn't afraid to play physical. The more the media recognizes him as a good physical defender, the more leeway for "physical" defense he's going to get, and the more he'll be able to leverage his athleticism and physicality.

3. Passing - I don't care if he functions as a pure off ball wing, you can't be an effective 100% pure play finishing wing if you're not an elite movement shooter, which Bryant has a low likelihood of achieving. Bryant needs to process faster and learn connectivity - too many times I saw him during summer league with the ball just get stuck - against good defenses he's going to get swarmed and turn it over or kill possessions. Or he'd throw a weak pass that'd lead to a turnover.

Solve these three things and you've got a high level playoff starter for the next 10-15 years

Don't we kind of already have a slightly smaller version of 65th percentile outcome Carter Bryant on the roster already, in Julian Champagnie? I agree this is who we want Bryant to be (and in generally we could just use more and more of these types of guys around our ball dominant "Big 4" of Wemby/Fox/Castle/Harper)... but maybe we should also just play Champ more in place of Keldon, who's playstyle just doesn't fit at all, or trying to force Vassell isn't to this type of player.

I think this is best accomplished by letting Devin have the role that is probably best suited to him: 6th man.

Fox/Harper
Castle/Vassell
Champ/Bryant
Sochan/Barnes/Lunch Lady
Wemby/Korndog

Because Bryant will need to slowly be brought into the fold, there should still be plenty of minutes for everyone with Castle or Vassell picking up some minutes at SF.

[SpursBills]

Don't we kind of already have a slightly smaller version of 65th percentile outcome Carter Bryant on the roster already, in Julian Champagnie? I agree this is who we want Bryant to be (and in generally we could just use more and more of these types of guys around our ball dominant "Big 4" of Wemby/Fox/Castle/Harper)... but maybe we should also just play Champ more in place of Keldon, who's playstyle just doesn't fit at all, or trying to force Vassell isn't to this type of player.

I think this is best accomplished by letting Devin have the role that is probably best suited to him: 6th man.

Fox/Harper
Castle/Vassell
Champ/Bryant
Sochan/Barnes/Lunch Lady
Wemby/Korndog

Because Bryant will need to slowly be brought into the fold, there should still be plenty of minutes for everyone with Castle or Vassell picking up some minutes at SF.

Yes agree with all of this - Champagnie is getting slept on hard still because he's getting jerked around with his minutes. People don't realize that Champagnie is actually the highest gravity shooter on the team when you take into account both percentage and volume rate adjusted - 4.5 3PM/100 vs 3.9 for Vassell vs 3.4 for Barnes vs. 2.3 for Keldon while defending better than any of them. His issue is he's so inconsistent and during his extended bad stretches he looks like complete ass. But it's a little depressing that of all the guys on the roster, he comes closest to a minimum standard of "decent 3, decent D" that you want from an off ball wing.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Don't we kind of already have a slightly smaller version of 65th percentile outcome Carter Bryant on the roster already, in Julian Champagnie? I agree this is who we want Bryant to be (and in generally we could just use more and more of these types of guys around our ball dominant "Big 4" of Wemby/Fox/Castle/Harper)... but maybe we should also just play Champ more in place of Keldon, who's playstyle just doesn't fit at all, or trying to force Vassell isn't to this type of player.

I think this is best accomplished by letting Devin have the role that is probably best suited to him: 6th man.

Fox/Harper
Castle/Vassell
Champ/Bryant
Sochan/Barnes/Lunch Lady
Wemby/Korndog

Because Bryant will need to slowly be brought into the fold, there should still be plenty of minutes for everyone with Castle or Vassell picking up some minutes at SF.

IMO, Sochan shouldn't start. His defense isn't good enough to counter the lack of offensive threat he is not - whenever he's on the floor the Spurs are essentially playing 4 on 5 on offense.

Prime Barnes is what Sochan and Bryant need to become - until his defense is a clear liability, his floor spacing is needed.

I don't know who should start between Vassell and Champ. I could easily see Champ getting more minutes this year but when you're paying Vassell $27M, I don't know if the FO will go for that.

[objective]

2. Defensive rep - OKC taught me that half of what makes for a good defender in the NBA is how much you're allowed to foul the other team. As good defenders get a better rep, they get to foul more without getting called. I like how Bryant is talking about defense all the time, seems like he's a good kid, and isn't afraid to play physical. The more the media recognizes him as a good physical defender, the more leeway for "physical" defense he's going to get, and the more he'll be able to leverage his athleticism and physicality.


Can't deny it.

Guys who are aggressive and foul a lot on defense while still occasionally generating events get the benefit of the doubt too often. Not just Caruso or Cason, it's Draymond, it's Dillon Brooks, it's Marcus Smart, it's everyone with a pulse who attacks for long enough. Reputation and it's impact on the game is the immeasurable force in the basketball analytics universe.

[SpursBills]

Can't deny it.

Guys who are aggressive and foul a lot on defense while still occasionally generating events get the benefit of the doubt too often. Not just Caruso or Cason, it's Draymond, it's Dillon Brooks, it's Marcus Smart, it's everyone with a pulse who attacks for long enough. Reputation and it's impact on the game is the immeasurable force in the basketball analytics universe.

I think Castle recognizes the oversized influence of officiating on on-court performance on both sides as well, which was one of the reasons he did the dunk contest this year. Wemby's media gravity already helps spurs guys; any young player who's recognized early by the media has a higher chance of getting a favorable whistle. This is critical when you have guys whose game relies on physicality and is heavily affected by refs either blowing or swallowing their whistle. Look at how SGA sucks off the officials every chance he gets - it's no coincidence, these guys know how to play the game within the game.

[scott]

IMO, Sochan shouldn't start. His defense isn't good enough to counter the lack of offensive threat he is not - whenever he's on the floor the Spurs are essentially playing 4 on 5 on offense.

Prime Barnes is what Sochan and Bryant need to become - until his defense is a clear liability, his floor spacing is needed.

I don't know who should start between Vassell and Champ. I could easily see Champ getting more minutes this year but when you're paying Vassell $27M, I don't know if the FO will go for that.

I agree actually, I was just trying to balance things a little bit out in the event Champ started (especially on the boards)... and avoid coming off as a complete Sochan hater (which I don't think I am... but I'm definitely a Sochan skeptic and lower on him than general consensus). I'd think Fox/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby would be my preferred starting 5.

[scott]

Can't deny it.

Guys who are aggressive and foul a lot on defense while still occasionally generating events get the benefit of the doubt too often. Not just Caruso or Cason, it's Draymond, it's Dillon Brooks, it's Marcus Smart, it's everyone with a pulse who attacks for long enough. Reputation and it's impact on the game is the immeasurable force in the basketball analytics universe.

As much as we might want to pretend otherwise, IMO this was also the case going all the way back to Bowen. Kawhi is the only guy I can think of who's elite perimeter D wasn't really just a function of being allowed to foul all the time.

[DAF86]

NBA players are better than summer league players. Especially Hall of fame players. It would be the same as when the bench players go to free runs and drop a 50 piece. You don't seem to understand the gap in skill.

So, you say Sochan would be averaging more pts per game than Jones-Garcia in Summer League, right now?

[Rocalcio]

I uh... huh?

Fox as good as the MVP? SGA is clearly not elite?
Vassell is as good as which?
Barnes is better than who and how?
Wemby is only as good as Holmgren?

What is happening where you are?

I'm calling an Intervention!

https://media.tenor.com/XSM9MdI8Yx8AAAAM/its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-iasip.gif

We’re talking 3pts shooting, and yes SGA isn’t elite at this, just like Fox.

And since you now understood we’re talking 3pts, you can get the rest of my message

[Rocalcio]

Gotcha. Thanks.

Had you been more attentive, perhaps you’d avoided to mock me…

[RC_Drunkford]

Right now, what separates Carter from 1st year Sochan?

He won't be coached by lunatic who starts him as a point guard

[rascal]

Don't we kind of already have a slightly smaller version of 65th percentile outcome Carter Bryant on the roster already, in Julian Champagnie? I agree this is who we want Bryant to be (and in generally we could just use more and more of these types of guys around our ball dominant "Big 4" of Wemby/Fox/Castle/Harper)... but maybe we should also just play Champ more in place of Keldon, who's playstyle just doesn't fit at all, or trying to force Vassell isn't to this type of player.

I think this is best accomplished by letting Devin have the role that is probably best suited to him: 6th man.

Fox/Harper
Castle/Vassell
Champ/Bryant
Sochan/Barnes/Lunch Lady
Wemby/Korndog

Because Bryant will need to slowly be brought into the fold, there should still be plenty of minutes for everyone with Castle or Vassell picking up some minutes at SF.

You can't have a number 2 pick on the bench for long. He's going to want out if he's a backup.

[scott]

You can't have a number 2 pick on the bench for long. He's going to want out if he's a backup.

When Harper beats out the guy in front of him, he’ll start

[KobesAchilles]

We’re talking 3pts shooting, and yes SGA isn’t elite at this, just like Fox.

And since you now understood we’re talking 3pts, you can get the rest of my message
:lol nobody said SGA was elite. I said that OKC can start Hartenstein bc they have 4 threats to make 3s in SGA, Dort, Williams, and Chet. And we don’t have 4 threats from downtown in our starting line up. That’s just a fact. You randomly brought up elite. But all 4 of those players are above average at shooting the 3 ball while in our line up we have one such player.

Then you tried to have your cake and eat it too by bringing up Barnes stats to help your case when in the proposed scenario Barnes would be on the bench in favor of Sochan. And then you say that SGA who shot 38% from 3 last year is the same type of shooter as Fox who shot 31%? SGA is closer to leading the ENTIRE league in 3point FG% than Fox is to SGA. So yeah you’re going to get roasted by saying Fox, Castle, Wemby, and Vassell are all just as good shooters as Dort, Williams, Chet, and SGA.

To make it simple for you I will rank them.
1. Dort
2. SGA
3. Chet
4. Vassell

5. Williams (who is .3% behind the Spurs best shooter)
6. Wemby
7. Fox
8. Castle

So one team has 3 out of the top 4 shooters in their starting line up. And the other team has 3 of the bottom 4 shooters in their line up. Not exactly even

[ambchang]

So, you say Sochan would be averaging more pts per game than Jones-Garcia in Summer League, right now?

I know right. Wemby averaged 18 ppg in summer league, DGJ 24.5. Id expect DGJ to be a 35% better scorer than wemby, and thus the better player in the nba.

[koriwhat]

I know right. Wemby averaged 18 ppg in summer league, DGJ 24.5. Id expect DGJ to be a 35% better scorer than wemby, and thus the better player in the nba.

:lol :tu

[DAF86]

I know right. Wemby averaged 18 ppg in summer league, DGJ 24.5. Id expect DGJ to be a 35% better scorer than wemby, and thus the better player in the nba.

You do realize that that is precisely my point, right? :lol

I'm not shitting on Sochan, I like Sochan. I'm just arguing with the other poster (@mnky) that somehow thinks Sochan would turn into prime Michael Jordan just by playing Summer League. :lol

[ambchang]

You do realize that that is precisely my point, right? :lol

I'm not shitting on Sochan, I like Sochan. I'm just arguing with the other poster (@mnky) that somehow thinks Sochan would turn into prime Michael Jordan just by playing Summer League. :lol

I guess you quoted the wrong guy then.

[DAF86]

I guess you quoted the wrong guy then.

I quoted just the right guy, try to follow the conversation and you'll understand.

Mnky seems to believe that since a player is good in the NBA, he can drop 30 as he likes in Summer League, regardless of skillset. I'm just trying to make him understand that that's not how basketball works, tbh.

[DAF86]

For example, I know Sochan >>>> Bryn Forbes as basketball players, but my educated guess tells me Forbes would average more PPG in Summer League if both shared the same team.

[Leetonidas]

We’re talking 3pts shooting, and yes SGA isn’t elite at this, just like Fox.

And since you now understood we’re talking 3pts, you can get the rest of my message

37.5% (SGA) vs 27.4% (Fox) is a MASSIVE difference. SGA isn't elite, but he is above average. Fox is legitimately a bad three point shooter. The comparison makes 0 sense

[LeBowen]

37.5% (SGA) vs 27.4% (Fox) is a MASSIVE difference. SGA isn't elite, but he is above average. Fox is legitimately a bad three point shooter. The comparison makes 0 sense

Fox is a career 33% 3pt shooter and shot 37% in 23-24 season. This season isn't relevant because of his finger issue.
He'll go back to that 32-35% range. Not great, but not terrible.

Fox also has higher volume. I think that will come down with the Spurs because there are more mouths to feed, but it should only work in his favor because he won't take as many difficult shots.

[scott]

Fox is still a three point threat, the way Trae Young (a career 34% 3P shooter) is a three point threat. Teams aren't going to leave them wide open at the arch and dare them to shoot. We don't everyone to be a sniper, just be good enough to not have teams blatantly abandoning coverage on them and daring them to shoot (like they currently do with Sochan). Even Castle is significantly more of a 3pt threat than Sochan, despite shooting at a lower %, because at least Castle will actually shoot them and not just shit his pants when he gets the ball.

[Leetonidas]

Fox is a career 33% 3pt shooter and shot 37% in 23-24 season. This season isn't relevant because of his finger issue.
He'll go back to that 32-35% range. Not great, but not terrible.

Fox also has higher volume. I think that will come down with the Spurs because there are more mouths to feed, but it should only work in his favor because he won't take as many difficult shots.

That is a fair point, he definitely shot worse last season because of the pinky issue. But Fox has never been a good three point shooter. Career 33% like you said, and that is inflated a little bit by a couple 37% outlier season, he has 3 seasons where he shot under 30% from three. Compared to SGA who is a 35.5% career shooter from deep who has never shot under 30% for a season and has 3 seasons shooting above 35%. I just think the SGA v Fox comparison is silly altogether. One is a top 5 player and current MVP/champ, the other is a top 30ish player. There is a massive gulf between them

[ambchang]

I quoted just the right guy, try to follow the conversation and you'll understand.

Mnky seems to believe that since a player is good in the NBA, he can drop 30 as he likes in Summer League, regardless of skillset. I'm just trying to make him understand that that's not how basketball works, tbh.

My bad then.

[exstatic]

I quoted just the right guy, try to follow the conversation and you'll understand.

Mnky seems to believe that since a player is good in the NBA, he can drop 30 as he likes in Summer League, regardless of skillset. I'm just trying to make him understand that that's not how basketball works, tbh.

Keita Bates-Diop , a career 6 ppg scorer dropped 30 against the a Lakers in an NBA game. That’s a lot higher threshold than SL, and he’s definitely a journeyman/scrub.

You’re just wrong on this, 86.

[Knoxxx]

This thread has gone off the rails. Fox 27% 3 PT percentage is atypical and what does this have to do with Bryant? Who was regarded as a 39% 3 PT shooter in college so he showed his potential. And imagine how simple his role and little attention he would command playing with our new Big 4.

[DAF86]

Keita Bates-Diop , a career 6 ppg scorer dropped 30 against the a Lakers in an NBA game. That’s a lot higher threshold than SL, and he’s definitely a journeyman/scrub.

You’re just wrong on this, 86.

How does a one game sample size make me wrong? :lol

Sochan also scored 30 in the NBA once, that doesn't necessarily mean he would average 30 in Summer League, tbh. You are the one that is wrong on this, imho.

[ace3g]

DMOc5bOBwkO

[exstatic]

37.5% (SGA) vs 27.4% (Fox) is a MASSIVE difference. SGA isn't elite, but he is above average. Fox is legitimately a bad three point shooter. The comparison makes 0 sense

That’s
One
Season.

[Leetonidas]

That’s
One
Season.

No shit Sherlock. As I said in a follow up post Fox has shot under 30% three times in his career. So it isn't just one season.

[exstatic]

No shit Sherlock. As I said in a follow up post Fox has shot under 30% three times in his career. So it isn't just one season.

Buy you’re only comparing one season. Career, it’s about 35% to 33%.

[SpursFan86]

Soooo…we’re back?

[Mr. Body]

Soooo…we’re back?

Back to the boredom of no-sports summer? Yeah.

[ace3g]

Back to the boredom of no-sports summer? Yeah.

We still have one more consolation game.

[Mr. Body]

We still have one more consolation game.

Oh cool, didn't realize.

[spurraider21]

Back to the boredom of no-sports summer? Yeah.
nfl training camps starting and preseason soon enough

[Mr. Body]

nfl training camps starting and preseason soon enough

PL starts in August too

[spurraider21]

1946010646824255861

[Mr. Body]

Is he back in the Hall of Fame now?

[itzsoweezee]

This guy is skilled and athletic, but he really makes the game hard for himself. He needs to just do the simple stuff rather than the dumb shit he often resorts to. That’s why I think it might be better to have him sit on the bench with San Antonio than play in the nonsense that is the G league

[DAF86]

This guy is skilled and athletic, but he really makes the game hard for himself. He needs to just do the simple stuff rather than the dumb shit he often resorts to. That’s why I think it might be better to have him sit on the bench with San Antonio than play in the nonsense that is the G league

What dumb shit do you think he does?

[itzsoweezee]

What dumb shit do you think he does?

Terrible turnovers trying to make questionable passes (I’d be very surprised if he has more assists than turnovers this summer), attempting to put the ball on the floor when he doesn’t have that skill yet, passing up easy open shots and dribbling into tougher shots, etc.

[Darkwaters]

Terrible turnovers trying to make questionable passes (I’d be very surprised if he has more assists than turnovers this summer), attempting to put the ball on the floor when he doesn’t have that skill yet, passing up easy open shots and dribbling into tougher shots, etc.

Isn’t that kind of the point of Summer League though? Shooting every shot left-handed and whatnot?

These aren’t exactly important games. Quite the opposite.

[spurraider21]

This guy is skilled and athletic, but he really makes the game hard for himself. He needs to just do the simple stuff rather than the dumb shit he often resorts to. That’s why I think it might be better to have him sit on the bench with San Antonio than play in the nonsense that is the G league
you think he will improve on his game by sitting and watching vs playing and being coached out of those habits in live game scenarios?

[Mnky]

I know right. Wemby averaged 18 ppg in summer league, DGJ 24.5. Id expect DGJ to be a 35% better scorer than wemby, and thus the better player in the nba.

:toast

[Mnky]

Keita Bates-Diop , a career 6 ppg scorer dropped 30 against the a Lakers in an NBA game. That’s a lot higher threshold than SL, and he’s definitely a journeyman/scrub.

You’re just wrong on this, 86.

:toast

[Mnky]

1946010646824255861

The overall evidence has shown the kid can be a spot up bucket to go along with his Defense and outstanding character. Has always been my favorite for the Atlanta pick with that cast of forwards available. Really think the Spurs hit it out the park with this one.

[mystargtr34]

I thought Carter made some really nice passes tonight, one really nice cross court one, found a couple cutters, that nice wrap around at the rim for the dunk. Was impressed with his shooting, the drive and pull up jumper in the lane where he bounced Kon off him like he was a child.

Defensively though he was real bad and disengaged tonight especially off ball. But I’ll take it if that’s what it took to get his offense going finally.

[itzsoweezee]

you think he will improve on his game by sitting and watching vs playing and being coached out of those habits in live game scenarios?

Maybe the Austin team is better (I don’t know), but the G league is not known for teams playing solid, fundamentals basketball. I don’t think he’d learn how to be a role player in the G league

[DAF86]

:toast

Why would you toast to a comment saying exactly the opposite of what you said? :lol

[DAF86]

Terrible turnovers trying to make questionable passes (I’d be very surprised if he has more assists than turnovers this summer), attempting to put the ball on the floor when he doesn’t have that skill yet, passing up easy open shots and dribbling into tougher shots, etc.

Personally, I'm more worried about his lack of awareness when he's guarding off ball. He needs to work on that if he wants to be a positive on defense. All that try hard stuff he does for show when he's on ball means nothing if he doesn't become smarter and starts to pay attention to what's going on around him, when he's off ball.

[Russ]

Personally, I'm more worried about his lack of awareness when he's guarding off ball. He needs to work on that if he wants to be a positive on defense. All that try hard stuff he does for show when he's on ball means nothing if he doesn't become smarter and starts to pay attention to what's going on around him, when he's off ball.

He's a teenager.

[Mnky]

I thought Carter made some really nice passes tonight, one really nice cross court one, found a couple cutters, that nice wrap around at the rim for the dunk. Was impressed with his shooting, the drive and pull up jumper in the lane where he bounced Kon off him like he was a child.

Defensively though he was real bad and disengaged tonight especially off ball. But I’ll take it if that’s what it took to get his offense going finally.

His passing game is what I see people talk about being unappreciated the most. Think that bodes pretty well for his fit with ball dominant players of he's able to keep the ball moving efficiently when he does have it.

[DAF86]

He's a teenager.

Hopefully that's something he can improve on, but, on any sport, I tend to see that players with high levels of awareness, IQ and instincts bring that shit from the cradle. It's rarely something you can magically turn on.

You can work on it though by learning some basic defensive rules as to not get burn so often.

[onechance87]

Im happy he hit open shots.Playing good defense and hitting open 3s is a must from him.

[NickiRasgo]

Did he get injured? Just saw the highlights and he was limping a bit at 5:18 mark in the 4th Quarter.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe the Austin team is better (I don’t know), but the G league is not known for teams playing solid, fundamentals basketball. I don’t think he’d learn how to be a role player in the G leagueUnder Scott King last season, the defense of the full-strength Austin squad was pretty remarkable. As for offense it depends on who's running the point. Losing Bouyea was a real blow as Nelson isn't ready for prime time. Have to see who gets signed.

[scott]

Would make sense for Bryant to get closer to the Vassell-rookie treatment (17 mpg as a deep bench player) as opposed to the Lonnie-rookie treatment (lots of time in Austin, 7mpg over 17 games in the NBA as a rookie) or the Sochan-rookie treatment (26mpg, started 53 of 56 games).

[Raven]

I thought he was a lot better this time. Yes defensively he was asleep, getting hit by cutters all the time and always away from the action in general, but i thought those were mostly summerleague forgivable offenses. On the offensive side, I liked his drives, TO or not, he seems fast enough were you can imagine that he'd be able to develop that and be less predictable. The triples were all wide open but still good. All in all, just a generic summerleague game, which is a great improvement over the devastation of the previous games.

[Uriel]

1946010646824255861
Yeah, I can really see Bryant developing into an elite role player, a la Danny Green.

[ginobilized]

CB will be a beast by the time he's 23 or so.

Nice to see him (finally) get some shots to fall. I agree with Scott that the Vassell treatment of 15-17mpg will be the approach. Some G-League to keep him in shape, but mostly 12th man minutes.

[SpursFan86]

My guess is that Bryant spends a good amount of time in the G League for the first couple of months, but as injuries inevitably pop up + he develops he’ll start to see more time with the main squad.

I think the estimate of him playing 15-17 mpg probably isn’t happening until post-ASB but we’ll see. With the type of prospect he is it would be a big win if he’s actually ready to be a rotation player by the end of his rookie year.

[ulosturedge]

Atleast his 3 point stroke comes natural unlike Sochan's. His Basketball IQ is lacking but as long as the kid works hard the Spurs will do everything to turn him into a real NBA player.

[Rocalcio]

:lol nobody said SGA was elite. I said that OKC can start Hartenstein bc they have 4 threats to make 3s in SGA, Dort, Williams, and Chet. And we don’t have 4 threats from downtown in our starting line up. That’s just a fact. You randomly brought up elite. But all 4 of those players are above average at shooting the 3 ball while in our line up we have one such player.

Then you tried to have your cake and eat it too by bringing up Barnes stats to help your case when in the proposed scenario Barnes would be on the bench in favor of Sochan. And then you say that SGA who shot 38% from 3 last year is the same type of shooter as Fox who shot 31%? SGA is closer to leading the ENTIRE league in 3point FG% than Fox is to SGA. So yeah you’re going to get roasted by saying Fox, Castle, Wemby, and Vassell are all just as good shooters as Dort, Williams, Chet, and SGA.

To make it simple for you I will rank them.
1. Dort
2. SGA
3. Chet
4. Vassell

5. Williams (who is .3% behind the Spurs best shooter)
6. Wemby
7. Fox
8. Castle

So one team has 3 out of the top 4 shooters in their starting line up. And the other team has 3 of the bottom 4 shooters in their line up. Not exactly even

I didn’t bring any Barnes stats, you’re referring to another poster I guess

[KobesAchilles]

They’re clearly not elite, Vassell is as good as them, Barnes is better, Fox could be as good as SGA, and Wemby is as good as Holmgren.

[Ariel]

Raynaud is kind of a young Brook Lopez

Too bad we got rid of our 2RP (even if he might be drafted before 38 tbh)
Even if the Spurs traded the pick before the 2nd round, there were other picks traded with Raynaud still on the board which the Spurs could have easily obtained dirt cheap (future 2nd + cash, a couple of really bad seconds, etc) to draft him (or anyone else) if they wanted to. Either the Spurs didn't want Raynaud at all or, at least, not enough to give him a decent guaranteed contract. Bottom line, it wasn't going to happen, pick or no pick.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/uBaPSlNeZU4?si=6nG_TMc5DF9lprHI

[scott]

Even if the Spurs traded the pick before the 2nd round, there were other picks traded with Raynaud still on the board which the Spurs could have easily obtained dirt cheap (future 2nd + cash, a couple of really bad seconds, etc) to draft him (or anyone else) if they wanted to. Either the Spurs didn't want Raynaud at all or, at least, not enough to give him a decent guaranteed contract. Bottom line, it wasn't going to happen, pick or no pick.

Indeed. The Spurs clearly just didn't have an interest in Raynaud.

The real criticism, IMO, is just how the Spurs approach the second round in general in the Brian Wright era. Here is his second round history:

Traded Away:

#38 (2022)
#33 (2023)
#35 (2024)
#38 (2025)

Actually picked:



#41 (2020) - Tre Jones, signed a multi-year partially guaranteed deal (very good pick, IMO), got to a second contract with us, now on his third contract with Chicago. Solid NBA deep bench player.
#41 (2021) - Joe Wieskamp, signed a two-way deal, then converted to a regular contract post ASB his rookie season, then signed a 2-year 4.4MM contract (1 year guaranteed), then was waived two months later creating $2.2MM dead cap hit. This one is one of those "wtf" kind of things... but maybe the Spurs just thought they'd do Joel a solid and gift him a couple million bucks for the trouble to help them meet the salary floor?
#44 (2023) - Sidy Cissoko, signed a multi-year, partially guaranteed deal. Used in Fox trade.
#36 (2024) - Juan Nunez, I wouldn't even call this a draft-and-stash. It's a draft-and-punt. There is no reason to believe Juan Nunez will ever get an NBA contract.
#48 (2024) - Harrison Ingram, signed to a two-way deal.


Brian Wright seems to have purposely avoided high SRPs, but he's not singularly focused on two-ways. He's picked guys who get NBA deals. But aside from Tre, none of these guys have ever really looked like NBA players while there have been plenty of other guys he could have picked who do look like NBA players.

Why this is the approach... who knows? Whether it's right or wrong, good or bad is up to debate.

But it does look like outside of can't miss blue chip prospects (Wemby, Castle, Harper) he has a proclivity to like to draft projects (Vassell, Primo, Sochan, Bryant). I include Vassell in that list because he wasn't really a big time college performer either. None of these guys averaged over 10ppg in their college careers. Vassell averaged 12.7ppg his sophomore season, but was picked ahead of guys with more impressive college production. Haliburton, Nesmith, Maxey are the hits, but even some of the guys outside of these big hits in the NBA picked behind him had more impressive college production: Lewis, Bey, Stewart, Anthony. I'm not suggesting that this means Vassell was a bad pick or we should have taken Lewis, Bey, etc... I'm just pointing out that Brian Wright loves himself a project.

[toki9]

FWIW, here is a bit of Raynaud's side of the process: https://www.si.com/nba/kings/sacramento-kings-news/kings-rookie-reveals-why-he-wanted-to-end-up-in-sacramento-01k00bxdfxvx

[The Truth #6]

Arizona. The personality. The athleticism. I get some Richard Jefferson vibes. Not the offensive skills. But the person. It's not a 1-1 comparison. I think Carter is a harder worker, so I'll take that.

[John B]

CB has great defensive upside. He hounds people and chase blocks. He only needs to shoot open 3’s, nothing complicated on his 1st year. If he can consistently shot 35% on open 3’s, on top of his nose on defense, I think he’ll get the 12th man role on his 1st year. Easily will be one of Sean’s favorite players, and not just because of Arizona, but CB’s dedication on defense which Sean “Ninja” also proud himself as being one.

[Ariel]

CB has great defensive upside. He hounds people and chase blocks. He only needs to shoot open 3’s, nothing complicated on his 1st year. If he can consistently shot 35% on open 3’s, on top of his nose on defense, I think he’ll get the 12th man role on his 1st year. Easily will be one of Sean’s favorite players, and not just because of Arizona, but CB’s dedication on defense which Sean “Ninja” also proud himself as being one.
12th most MPG last year was Zach Collins at 11.8, this is a deeper roster but not at the wings, if CB can hit open 3s at a respectable clip I wouldn't be surprised by the all star break if he's playiing over Keldon, Champagnie or even Sochan.

[sfernald]

12th most MPG last year was Zach Collins at 11.8, this is a deeper roster but not at the wings, if CB can hit open 3s at a respectable clip I wouldn't be surprised by the all star break if he's playiing over Keldon, Champagnie or even Sochan.

He’s a lottery pick, and he’s a much needed archetype at a needed position, with mostly mediocre above him. I’m sure he gets at least gets 15-17 minutes a night like Vassell and Keldon did as rookies. Hopefully he figures things out and forces the team to start him by the end of the year.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

CB is basically rookie Sochan.

Good news is he won't be asked to play PG ever.

Bad news is that he's not really a shooter yet (and there's no indication that he ever will be all that great). Serviceable, certainly (32-35% maybe). But, 38%+, maybe if we're lucky.

Either way, he's not now nor do I think he projects to be a 3-D player that would be part of a championship team. I think we'll be having the same discussion about him in 3 years that we have about Sochan now.

[exstatic]

CB is basically rookie Sochan.

Good news is he won't be asked to play PG ever.

Bad news is that he's not really a shooter yet (and there's no indication that he ever will be all that great). Serviceable, certainly (32-35% maybe). But, 38%+, maybe if we're lucky.

Either way, he's not now nor do I think he projects to be a 3-D player that would be part of a championship team. I think we'll be having the same discussion about him in 3 years that we have about Sochan now.

They’re not even close to the same player, except in your mind. Carter out shot him from both 3 and at the line, 37% to 29%, and 69% to 59%. Carter is not nearly the on ball D force that Jeremy was immediately, and will be limited in his matchups, because he’s 15 lbs. lighter. He’s going to need about two years in the weight room to get to rookie Jeremy size.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=carter-bryant--jeremy-sochan

[Mnky]

CB is basically rookie Sochan.

Good news is he won't be asked to play PG ever.

Bad news is that he's not really a shooter yet (and there's no indication that he ever will be all that great). Serviceable, certainly (32-35% maybe). But, 38%+, maybe if we're lucky.

Either way, he's not now nor do I think he projects to be a 3-D player that would be part of a championship team. I think we'll be having the same discussion about him in 3 years that we have about Sochan now.

Think youre being a little harsh on Carter. All signs have shown him being a shooter. When the competition got better In the season, so did his shooting percentage. I don't expect him to have guard abilities anytime soon but I don't see why people worry about a shooters percentage from a couple weeks of games as opposed to an entire season showing he's better than that.

[J_Paco]

Arizona. The personality. The athleticism. I get some Richard Jefferson vibes. Not the offensive skills. But the person. It's not a 1-1 comparison. I think Carter is a harder worker, so I'll take that.

He plays like Shawn Marion or similarly, which would be wonderful cause he was an all-star caliber player that was willing to do the 'dirty work.'

Gotta hope that his collegiate three-point shooting can transition and he becomes the SF of the future.

[Mnky]

Indeed. The Spurs clearly just didn't have an interest in Raynaud.

The real criticism, IMO, is just how the Spurs approach the second round in general in the Brian Wright era. Here is his second round history:

Traded Away:

#38 (2022)
#33 (2023)
#35 (2024)
#38 (2025)

Actually picked:



#41 (2020) - Tre Jones, signed a multi-year partially guaranteed deal (very good pick, IMO), got to a second contract with us, now on his third contract with Chicago. Solid NBA deep bench player.
#41 (2021) - Joe Wieskamp, signed a two-way deal, then converted to a regular contract post ASB his rookie season, then signed a 2-year 4.4MM contract (1 year guaranteed), then was waived two months later creating $2.2MM dead cap hit. This one is one of those "wtf" kind of things... but maybe the Spurs just thought they'd do Joel a solid and gift him a couple million bucks for the trouble to help them meet the salary floor?
#44 (2023) - Sidy Cissoko, signed a multi-year, partially guaranteed deal. Used in Fox trade.
#36 (2024) - Juan Nunez, I wouldn't even call this a draft-and-stash. It's a draft-and-punt. There is no reason to believe Juan Nunez will ever get an NBA contract.
#48 (2024) - Harrison Ingram, signed to a two-way deal.


Brian Wright seems to have purposely avoided high SRPs, but he's not singularly focused on two-ways. He's picked guys who get NBA deals. But aside from Tre, none of these guys have ever really looked like NBA players while there have been plenty of other guys he could have picked who do look like NBA players.

Why this is the approach... who knows? Whether it's right or wrong, good or bad is up to debate.

But it does look like outside of can't miss blue chip prospects (Wemby, Castle, Harper) he has a proclivity to like to draft projects (Vassell, Primo, Sochan, Bryant). I include Vassell in that list because he wasn't really a big time college performer either. None of these guys averaged over 10ppg in their college careers. Vassell averaged 12.7ppg his sophomore season, but was picked ahead of guys with more impressive college production. Haliburton, Nesmith, Maxey are the hits, but even some of the guys outside of these big hits in the NBA picked behind him had more impressive college production: Lewis, Bey, Stewart, Anthony. I'm not suggesting that this means Vassell was a bad pick or we should have taken Lewis, Bey, etc... I'm just pointing out that Brian Wright loves himself a project.

You have to also take into account what talks they have with players and agents. If agents and players are adamant they don't want to be a developmental project in the g league, that's going to steer the Spurs away as well. Why even bother with the headache when the chance of that pick working out is extremely low?

Not to mention when you've been bad for awhile, you have very little developmental minutes as those 1st rounders start to pile up on the bench. We had 3 of them on the bench last year that were under 21.

[J_Paco]

12th most MPG last year was Zach Collins at 11.8, this is a deeper roster but not at the wings, if CB can hit open 3s at a respectable clip I wouldn't be surprised by the all star break if he's playiing over Keldon, Champagnie or even Sochan.

I think he can leapfrog either or both of Johnson and Champagnie, but not sure he'd need to move above Sochan. If anything, trying to figure out if he, Sochan and Wemby can be pair together should be a priority.

Also, I think Barnes could be another guy he could surpass, especially if Barnes' defense is as piss poor as last season.

[Rocalcio]

Do you see any stat in this ?

(I was replying to Kobeachilles but since he just quoted me without adding any message nothin appears)

[spurraider21]

He plays like Shawn Marion or similarly, which would be wonderful cause he was an all-star caliber player that was willing to do the 'dirty work.'

Gotta hope that his collegiate three-point shooting can transition and he becomes the SF of the future.
marion was more than just a "dirty work" guy to be fair, and was also an elite rebounder. but yeah the defensive impact of being able to hound people on the perimeter while also being a playmaker even near the rim is something i hope he can emulate. gerald wallace was another defender who did some similar things

[KobesAchilles]

Do you see any stat in this ?

(I was replying to Kobeachilles but since he just quoted me without adding any message nothin appears)
Why bring him up at all? He’s not a starter in that scenario. You brought him up saying he’s a good shooter. I don’t see stats which is probably why you thought Fox and SGA shot near the same percentage when they’re 10% points off :lol

Next time don’t bring up a bench player when talking about starters and take the time to actually look up stats before saying asinine things like SGA and Fox are the same shooter

[J_Paco]

marion was more than just a "dirty work" guy to be fair, and was also an elite rebounder. but yeah the defensive impact of being able to hound people on the perimeter while also being a playmaker even near the rim is something i hope he can emulate. gerald wallace was another defender who did some similar things

Obviously, man. I said he was an all-star caliber player that can do/is willing to do the dirty work. Marion was a Jack of all trades and probably should be in the HOF, TBH.

We need another guy like that other than Sochan, especially one that isn't a net negative on offense (in theory).

[TheDoctor]

We can only wish for CB to grow and develops into something similar to Matrix.

[The Truth #6]

He plays like Shawn Marion or similarly, which would be wonderful cause he was an all-star caliber player that was willing to do the 'dirty work.'

Gotta hope that his collegiate three-point shooting can transition and he becomes the SF of the future.

His senior year he shot in the 80s on his free throws, though not super high volume. But that is reassuring for his shot.

That would be a dream comp.

[Rocalcio]

Why bring him up at all? He’s not a starter in that scenario. You brought him up saying he’s a good shooter. I don’t see stats which is probably why you thought Fox and SGA shot near the same percentage when they’re 10% points off :lol

Next time don’t bring up a bench player when talking about starters and take the time to actually look up stats before saying asinine things like SGA and Fox are the same shooter

In which scenario ? Barnes has been a starter all season long.

Regarding SGA and Fox stats, other posters proved you wrong.

Do you really have to be a dick and laugh at people like that ? Are you 10 years old or what ?

And I don't get advices from a guy who has a laker player on a Spurs forum.

[TD 21]

12th most MPG last year was Zach Collins at 11.8, this is a deeper roster but not at the wings, if CB can hit open 3s at a respectable clip I wouldn't be surprised by the all star break if he's playiing over Keldon, Champagnie or even Sochan.

Vassell (will toggle between SG), Barnes, Sochan, Johnson, Champagnie and Olynyk (will toggle between C) are all ahead of Bryant at forward.

Already, probably Olynyk (maybe Kornet in select matchups) and one of Johnson or Champagnie is likely to get squeezed at full strength.

I don't see them doing so to a third rotational player, no matter how much Bryant impresses in mostly the G-League. Maybe that makes a consolidation trade more likely at some point, but he's most likely waiting in the wings until '26-'27 in the best case scenario.

[KobesAchilles]

In which scenario ? Barnes has been a starter all season long.

Regarding SGA and Fox stats, other posters proved you wrong.

Do you really have to be a dick and laugh at people like that ? Are you 10 years old or what ?

And I don't get advices from a guy who has a laker player on a Spurs forum.
Um the scenario where we were starting Sochan. You literally responded to me as to why Sochan can’t be a starter on our team. Barnes is our PF. If Sochan starts then guess what he starts over Barnes. Nobody proved me wrong. They proved you wrong. I said that OKC has 4 starters that are threats from 3. For some reason you disagreed with that. I’m not sure why. But you did. Then you said that the Spurs starting shooters were just as good as OKC and that meant we could start Sochan. And again you’re wrong. They aren’t as good as OKCs starters. Then you said SGA (who nearly shot 7% better from 3 than Fox) is the same caliber of shooter as Fox from 3. 3 wrong statements in one post. But hey I forget you’re a troll account who tries to copy RD whatever his name is.

Yes I am 10. You were proven wrong by a 10 year old. Good job. And since I am 10 years old that means that your intelligence is below a 10 year old level.

[Splits]

Vecenie just said in his podcast he thought Bryant was not only the best summer league defender, but the best he's seen in a few years

[Jordan Jackson]

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s in the rotation by the trade deadline. I think they are going to try and accelerate his development a little.

The roster still has holes, primarily at the wing position and questionable shooting. I don’t believe winning is a full priority yet since the roster is still being churned (I think Vassell/Johnson/Sochan are on the trade block).

So Bryant playing and making mistakes will kind of be tolerated. Same applies to Harper.

[dn0774]

Vecenie just said in his podcast he thought Bryant was not only the best summer league defender, but the best he's seen in a few years

Nice. I was listening to a recently released free episode of Nate Duncan/John Hollinger (Dunc'd On Prime I think its called) and they were giving huge praise to Carter Bryant as well for his summer league defense. Surprised me because usually Nate Duncan anecdotally seems to hate all things Spurs lol. They said his offense is clearly a project as expected but his defense just popped like few others ever have in summer league.

[Obstructed_View]

Bring in Bruce or LDN to mentor this kid. He's better than both of them were at this stage of their careers.

Edit: possible I posted this exact thing recently. My early Alzheimer's kicking in.

[sfernald]

So it sounds like it’s time for the Carter Bryant point guard experiment this year!?

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s in the rotation by the trade deadline. I think they are going to try and accelerate his development a little.

The roster still has holes, primarily at the wing position and questionable shooting. I don’t believe winning is a full priority yet since the roster is still being churned (I think Vassell/Johnson/Sochan are on the trade block).

So Bryant playing and making mistakes will kind of be tolerated. Same applies to Harper.

according to Jake Fisher they are definitely ready to trade Keldon and Barnes and possibly Vassell.

[Obstructed_View]

according to Jake Fisher they are definitely ready to trade Keldon and Barnes and possibly Vassell.
I'd hope that Barnes will get to have some say in where he's traded, but he was great vet leadership for a young shitty team. I feel like he would be great vet leadership for a young playoff team. His skillset matches what the Spurs need.

[exstatic]

I'd hope that Barnes will get to have some say in where he's traded, but he was great vet leadership for a young shitty team. I feel like he would be great vet leadership for a young playoff team. His skillset matches what the Spurs need.

He’s a good vet, and he can shoot, but with no defense and nearly no rebounding, he falls short of starting caliber. I mean, less than a year ago, this vet was salary dumped.

[scott]

He’s a good vet, and he can shoot, but with no defense and nearly no rebounding, he falls short of starting caliber. I mean, less than a year ago, this vet was salary dumped.

This is a true statement but one I feel needs an asterisks... *salary dumped by SAC in order to give Demar Derozan a contract they immediately regret.

Not all salary dumps are created equal... sometimes stupid teams do stupid things. I'm thankful Brian Wright has figured out who the stupid teams are and has become a reliable enabler for them. He's that friend who is like "yeah man, you should totally buy a boat!" Brian knows owning a boat is a terrible idea, but having friends who made the stupid decision to buy a boat is AWESOME

[Ariel]

This is a true statement but one I feel needs an asterisks... *salary dumped by SAC in order to give Demar Derozan a contract they immediately regret.

Not all salary dumps are created equal... sometimes stupid teams do stupid things. I'm thankful Brian Wright has figured out who the stupid teams are and has become a reliable enabler for them. He's that friend who is like "yeah man, you should totally buy a boat!" Brian knows owning a boat is a terrible idea, but having friends who made the stupid decision to buy a boat is AWESOME
Yup, you know he has Chicago's number on favorites, as did Sacramento but unfortunately they changed GMs. Hopefully now he gets NO's number, Atlanta has turned their fate around by trading with them (DJ for Dyson Daniels + 2 picks, 13 for 23 + an unprotected 26 pick)... we need to get in on the action.

[sfernald]

Yup, you know he has Chicago's number on favorites, as did Sacramento but unfortunately they changed GMs. Hopefully now he gets NO's number, Atlanta has turned their fate around by trading with them (DJ for Dyson Daniels + 2 picks, 13 for 23 + an unprotected 26 pick)... we need to get in on the action.

Derik Queen already down with injury, pelicans are truly cursed, that 26 pick is gonna be dybantsa just watch. Spurs need to cash in those Atlanta picks before they’re worthless.

[exstatic]

Derik Queen already down with injury, pelicans are truly cursed, that 26 pick is gonna be dybantsa just watch. Spurs need to cash in those Atlanta picks before they’re worthless.

People said that this year, yet we got CB. This pick was also one ping pong ball away, 3/11 chance, from being Cooper Flagg after the first three balls were drawn.

Scared money don’t make none.

[The Truth #6]

This is a true statement but one I feel needs an asterisks... *salary dumped by SAC in order to give Demar Derozan a contract they immediately regret.

Not all salary dumps are created equal... sometimes stupid teams do stupid things. I'm thankful Brian Wright has figured out who the stupid teams are and has become a reliable enabler for them. He's that friend who is like "yeah man, you should totally buy a boat!" Brian knows owning a boat is a terrible idea, but having friends who made the stupid decision to buy a boat is AWESOME

Exactly. One friend with a boat. Another with the time share. Maybe one who drinks too much and makes decisions impulsively, et cetera.

"Hey it's Joe Dumar's birthday, let's call him tonight and see if we can catch him at happy hour and make a deal!"

That kind of thing?

[Rocalcio]

Um the scenario where we were starting Sochan. You literally responded to me as to why Sochan can’t be a starter on our team. Barnes is our PF. If Sochan starts then guess what he starts over Barnes. Nobody proved me wrong. They proved you wrong. I said that OKC has 4 starters that are threats from 3. For some reason you disagreed with that. I’m not sure why. But you did. Then you said that the Spurs starting shooters were just as good as OKC and that meant we could start Sochan. And again you’re wrong. They aren’t as good as OKCs starters. Then you said SGA (who nearly shot 7% better from 3 than Fox) is the same caliber of shooter as Fox from 3. 3 wrong statements in one post. But hey I forget you’re a troll account who tries to copy RD whatever his name is.

Yes I am 10. You were proven wrong by a 10 year old. Good job. And since I am 10 years old that means that your intelligence is below a 10 year old level.



Sochan can be our starting PF and Barnes our starting SF.

I’m a troll account copying who ?! I live in France and don’t even know who RD is, damn paranoid :spin

Yes, you’re definitely behaving like a child indeed.

[Rosewood]

Derik Queen already down with injury, pelicans are truly cursed, that 26 pick is gonna be dybantsa just watch. Spurs need to cash in those Atlanta picks before they’re worthless. He was looking really good too, brutal luck.

[KobesAchilles]

Sochan can be our starting PF and Barnes our starting SF.

I’m a troll account copying who ?! I live in France and don’t even know who RD is, damn paranoid :spin

Yes, you’re definitely behaving like a child indeed.
So you don’t have access to stats in France? A simple Google check would tell you that SGA shot much better from 3 than Fox last season. And Barnes would be our SF? Over Vassell? Really?
Our starters are going to be: Fox, Castle, Vassell, Barnes, Wemby

And if anyone is replaced it’s going to be Barnes for Sochan. So while in your eyes I’m acting like a child. To me, I’d rather be childlike than be an adult like you who was proven wrong, doubled down on being wrong, and refuses to accept or acknowledge that they’re wrong when shown they’re wrong. So be the adult you claim you are and just say: you know what I was wrong. Fox doesn’t shoot the 3 ball as well as SGA. OKC does have 4 starters who are threats from the 3 point line. The starting line up with Sochan doesn’t have enough good 3 point shooting.

[exstatic]

So you don’t have access to stats in France? A simple Google check would tell you that SGA shot much better from 3 than Fox last season. And Barnes would be our SF? Over Vassell? Really?
Our starters are going to be: Fox, Castle, Vassell, Barnes, Wemby

And if anyone is replaced it’s going to be Barnes for Sochan. So while in your eyes I’m acting like a child. To me, I’d rather be childlike than be an adult like you who was proven wrong, doubled down on being wrong, and refuses to accept or acknowledge that they’re wrong when shown they’re wrong. So be the adult you claim you are and just say: you know what I was wrong. Fox doesn’t shoot the 3 ball as well as SGA. OKC does have 4 starters who are threats from the 3 point line. The starting line up with Sochan doesn’t have enough good 3 point shooting.

A simple Google check will tell you that De’Aaron Fox’s left pinkie, his shooting hand, was sticking out at a 90 degree angle, and had to be taped to his ring finger for him to play.

It’s disingenuous to compare two players shooting for only one season when one of them had a shooting hand injury. Their career 3G% are about 2% apart, 35% to 33%. Neither will ever be mistaken for Steph Curry.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

A simple Google check will tell you that De’Aaron Fox’s left pinkie, his shooting hand, was sticking out at a 90 degree angle, and had to be taped to his ring finger for him to play.

It’s disingenuous to compare two players shooting for only one season when one of them had a shooting hand injury. Their career 3G% are about 2% apart, 35% to 33%. Neither will ever be mistaken for Steph Curry.

You two are killing me...

Fox is not a great 3pt shooter. After 8 seasons in the league (including 2 seasons which he shot about 37% but has NEVER shot better than that), he averages 1 made out of every 3 shot.

SGA isn't a great 3pt shooter either and isn't noticeably better than Fox for his career. After 7 seasons (including one season of better than 40%), he averages 35%. That's 2 more out of every 100 shots.

However, LAST SEASON, SGA shot 37% (163 out of 435 total 3s taken) and Fox shot 31% (118 - 381 taken). Of that 31%, Fox shot 32% in Sac and only 27% while in SA. SGA being 6% better for the year is certainly noticeable but the real question is whether Fox's shooting will be worse than his career average from now on (27%) because of the system, lack of shooting around him, etc.

[Obstructed_View]

He’s a good vet, and he can shoot, but with no defense and nearly no rebounding, he falls short of starting caliber. I mean, less than a year ago, this vet was salary dumped.
I don't want him to start.

[KobesAchilles]

A simple Google check will tell you that De’Aaron Fox’s left pinkie, his shooting hand, was sticking out at a 90 degree angle, and had to be taped to his ring finger for him to play.

It’s disingenuous to compare two players shooting for only one season when one of them had a shooting hand injury. Their career 3G% are about 2% apart, 35% to 33%. Neither will ever be mistaken for Steph Curry.


Fox’s last 5 seasons he averaged 32% from 3. SGA is just a better shooter than him. I don’t know what to tell you other than that. Now I hope by having Castle in the starting line up alongside Wemby that Fox will improve as a shooter. Especially since he is no longer a first option but a second option. But I’m not confident in that tbh.

[exstatic]

You two are killing me...

Fox is not a great 3pt shooter. After 8 seasons in the league (including 2 seasons which he shot about 37% but has NEVER shot better than that), he averages 1 made out of every 3 shot.

SGA isn't a great 3pt shooter either and isn't noticeably better than Fox for his career. After 7 seasons (including one season of better than 40%), he averages 35%. That's 2 more out of every 100 shots.

However, LAST SEASON, SGA shot 37% (163 out of 435 total 3s taken) and Fox shot 31% (118 - 381 taken). Of that 31%, Fox shot 32% in Sac and only 27% while in SA. SGA being 6% better for the year is certainly noticeable but the real question is whether Fox's shooting will be worse than his career average from now on (27%) because of the system, lack of shooting around him, etc.

Why are we looking at a one year sample? Makes no fucking sense.

[clampi]

Why are we looking at a one year sample? Makes no fucking sense.

Yep, and if we're looking at one year sample why not take the last season Fox played with a fully functional hand:
37% on 8FGA/g in 23/24

[KDKSpurs24]

You two are killing me...

Fox is not a great 3pt shooter. After 8 seasons in the league (including 2 seasons which he shot about 37% but has NEVER shot better than that), he averages 1 made out of every 3 shot.

SGA isn't a great 3pt shooter either and isn't noticeably better than Fox for his career. After 7 seasons (including one season of better than 40%), he averages 35%. That's 2 more out of every 100 shots.

However, LAST SEASON, SGA shot 37% (163 out of 435 total 3s taken) and Fox shot 31% (118 - 381 taken). Of that 31%, Fox shot 32% in Sac and only 27% while in SA. SGA being 6% better for the year is certainly noticeable but the real question is whether Fox's shooting will be worse than his career average from now on (27%) because of the system, lack of shooting around him, etc.
You really gonna sit there and type all that while forgetting that Fox’s finger looked like it was about to fall off?? The sample used is obsolete. Next.

[Rocalcio]

So you don’t have access to stats in France? A simple Google check would tell you that SGA shot much better from 3 than Fox last season. And Barnes would be our SF? Over Vassell? Really?
Our starters are going to be: Fox, Castle, Vassell, Barnes, Wemby

And if anyone is replaced it’s going to be Barnes for Sochan. So while in your eyes I’m acting like a child. To me, I’d rather be childlike than be an adult like you who was proven wrong, doubled down on being wrong, and refuses to accept or acknowledge that they’re wrong when shown they’re wrong. So be the adult you claim you are and just say: you know what I was wrong. Fox doesn’t shoot the 3 ball as well as SGA. OKC does have 4 starters who are threats from the 3 point line. The starting line up with Sochan doesn’t have enough good 3 point shooting.

As other posters told you, Fox and SGA 3pts percentages aren't that different, you're just considering last season, the stats I can access to in France show me that quite clearly...

There isn't any legit reason to put Vassell in the starting 5 instead of Barnes, so you don't know who the starters will be (Vassell might be gone by October actually)

Keep saying I have been proven wrong, you're the one who has been, I'm done arguing with a child.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

You really gonna sit there and type all that while forgetting that Fox’s finger looked like it was about to fall off?? The sample used is obsolete. Next.
What his finger looked like is all part of the equation. If a guy has a messed up hand or foot or mental issues or whatever, it all contributes. You don't get a pass because of an injury. Shooting 27% from 3 is shooting 27% from 3. Period.

If his finger was that messed up, then quit shooting 3s...

And, as my post mentioned, his entire career has proven hes a 33% shooter. Good or bad finger.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Why are we looking at a one year sample? Makes no fucking sense.
Did you read the entire quote? Reading is fundamental...

[BatManu20]

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