Should the Spurs Trade for John Collins?

[BatManu20]

Pretty straight forward. Trying to get a head count here on how many people would actually like for us to trade for John Collins.

He's only 27 years old (turns 28 in September) and on an expiring deal. He's owed $26.5M this year (reasonable).

He averaged 19 pts/8 rbs/2 asts/1 blk/1 stl on 53%/40%/85% splits last season with Utah. Would make for a really solid front court partner with Wemby imo.

Do y'all want the Spurs to trade for him? And more importantly, if so, what would y'all be willing to give up for his expiring contract?

Danny Ainge is a stickler and won't let him go for cheap tbh, even on an expiring.


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lp87hne-nfc

[Robz4000]

Normally I'd say yes but I'd rather not deal with Ainge tbh.

[spurraider21]

he has long been part of my "ideal offseason" scenarios. absolutely yes.

we traded josh richardson for graham and 4 SRPs. i dont see why we cant trade keldon and 4 SRPs for Collins. that way even if he doesnt pan out and we dont want to re-sign him, we just get off Keldon's money a year earlier anyway, and potentially can control collins in sign and trade scenarios

[Dejounte]

Belongs in the washed up role player thread tbh

[spurraider21]

Belongs in the washed up role player thread tbh
he is 27 and just had a nice bounce back season

[benefactor]

Yes

[Degoat]

There’s only 1 basketball to go around guys, Collins is great but we have to many mouths to feed

[vy65]

If he's for the minimum, why not?

[SpursFan86]

It’s been reported that Utah is not expecting much value in return for him, so I’m not so sure Ainge will be asking for some ridiculous/unreasonable package.

If we can flip Keldon and a bunch of SRPs I’d do that in a heartbeat. Throw in Branham while we’re at it.

[BatManu20]

It’s been reported that Utah is not expecting much value in return for him, so I’m not so sure Ainge will be asking for some ridiculous/unreasonable package.

If we can flip Keldon and a bunch of SRPs I’d do that in a heartbeat. Throw in Branham while we’re at it.

That's what I was thinking. Keldon + Wesley works money-wise. So does Barnes + Branham. Throw in a SRP or 2 to sweeten the pot and call it a day.

[scottspurs]

Danny Ainge so no period

[spurraider21]

That's what I was thinking. Keldon + Wesley works money-wise. Throw in a SRP or 2 to sweeten the pot and call it a day.
i'd comfortably throw 4 second rounders. its not just that we're grabbing collins but we are also having them take on an additional year of keldon money

[Leetonidas]

Yes. Spurs need to shore up the front court and he would fit nicely next to Wemby.

I'm good with dumping Vassell for him straight up. Or any combo of Keldon/Branham/Wesley and however many second rounders it takes

[BatManu20]

There’s only 1 basketball to go around guys, Collins is great but we have to many mouths to feed

He'd actually be a really solid plug-and-play rotational piece for us imo. His offensive role would basically be to catch lobs and hit open 3's, that's about it. We don't need him to be a creator. Would also be nice to have another veteran piece alongside Wemby instead of an unproven young guy tbh.

[Mugen]

If the price is Keldon then yes. If it's Devin, we can probably do a little bit better IMO.

[RC_Drunkford]

Belongs in the washed up role player thread tbh

he's got better stats than Lauri and would be the third best player on our roster. If that's washed up, what's with the other 10 guys on the Spurs?

[mo7888]

It depends on price.

[mystargtr34]

Yes. Solid low usage player who can rebound and space the floor. Not sure what his defense is like though haven’t done any deep dive on that.

[spurraider21]

If the price is Keldon then yes. If it's Devin, we can probably do a little bit better IMO.
i think the one that makes you stop and think is harrison. his shooting was sorely needed last year.

[Ariel]

It’s been reported that Utah is not expecting much value in return for him, so I’m not so sure Ainge will be asking for some ridiculous/unreasonable package.

If we can flip Keldon and a bunch of SRPs I’d do that in a heartbeat. Throw in Branham while we’re at it.
Yup, this is the way. Keldon + Branham/Wesley + 3/4 SRPs is a decent offer, if that gets it done great, if not you move along.

[exstatic]

If the price is Keldon then yes. If it's Devin, we can probably do a little bit better IMO.

I’m actually looking to offload Devin for player development purposes.

[BatManu20]

i'd comfortably throw 4 second rounders. its not just that we're grabbing collins but we are also having them take on an additional year of keldon money

That's fine. Spurs have more Second Rounders than they know what to do with right now. Hoarding them does nothing for me, especially since we never use them anyways.

Spurs really need to make the Playoffs in year 3 of Wemby and I think a veteran stretch-4 like Collins would go a long way in helping make that happen tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

Keldon, Branham and 3-5 second round picks. Get it done.

[spurraider21]

That's fine. Spurs have more Second Rounders than they know what to do with right now. Hoarding them does nothing for me, especially since we never use them anyways.

Spurs really need to make the Playoffs in year 3 of Wemby and I think a veteran stretch-4 like Collins would go a long way in helping make that happen tbh.
last time spurs had a meaningful SRP selection was Tre Jones in 2020. before that it was 2011 with dejuan blair and nando de colo.

we should absolutely be moving those picks lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Yes. Solid low usage player who can rebound and space the floor. Not sure what his defense is like though haven’t done any deep dive on that.

basically net neutral on bad teams, which means he'd be a positive defensively playing with Wemby. Just play him exclusively at PF and not at C.

[BatManu20]

Barnes + one of Wesley/Branham works money-wise too, but much more ideally you'd trade Keldon + Wesley/Branham because of the overlap at Guard that we already have + Spurs need all the size, shooting, and veteran leadership they can get right now tbh. I'd much rather rely on veterans like Barnes and John Collins in the Playoffs next year than young, unproven guys.

[RC_Drunkford]

this is the player that would make Mitch stop saying "Well, I think we lacked physicality" in every postgame presser. Currently one of the most underrated players in the NBA if you ask me.


Barnes + one of Wesley/Branham works money-wise too, but much more ideally you'd trade Keldon + Wesley/Branham because of the overlap at Guard that we already have. Plus, Spurs need all the size, shooting, and veteran leadership they can get right now tbh. I'd much rather rely on veterans like Barnes and John Collins in the Playoffs next year than young guys.

I think Will Hardy would much rather want Keldon as well

[scott]

Vassell for Collins + SRPs coming our way (more cash for Holt Jr to kick into the Project Marvel fund and/or hookers and blow)

[Blizzardwizard]

yes.


better than sochan (currently). decent age. shoots, rebounds and thrives off-ball. consistent production. brings toughness and physicality.


even factoring in ainge tax he shouldn't be too expensive to trade + sign long-term.


don't expect it to happen though. there will be several serious suitors so PATFO will probably back down after their soft-ball initial offer gets rebuffed.

[Dejounte]

he is 27 and just had a nice bounce back season

jesus what made him age so badly he looks 35

[BatManu20]

last time spurs had a meaningful SRP selection was Tre Jones in 2020. before that it was 2011 with dejuan blair and nando de colo.

we should absolutely be moving those picks lol

Yea that's actually pretty depressing tbh. I trust PATFO's scouting department but I'd rather take swings on certain guys here and there than just punt on every SRP we own every year. Makes no sense that we're collecting them otherwise.

[Dverde]

No, he’s the new Otto Porter Jr. for Spurstalk. His good seasons are the anomalies.

[mystargtr34]

I would prefer PJ Washington over Collins because of the defense. But the price will be higher.

Feels like PJ has that added nasty and toughness which would be worth something come playoff time.

[BatManu20]

No, he’s the new Otto Porter Jr. for Spurstalk. His good seasons are the anomalies.

Porter was never the player Collins is tbh. And JC is on an expiring which means if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, nothing of real value was lost. If he does, he could likely re-signed on a reasonable deal imo.

[Darkwaters]

Yes. A Devin Vassell for Collins trade has been on my radar for a while. I'd also be willing to toss in several 2nds to get the job done.

[BatManu20]

I would prefer PJ Washington over Collins because of the defense. But the price will be higher.

Feels like PJ has that added nasty and toughness which would be worth something come playoff time.

PJ Washington would be a solid add too. But like you said, he'd likely be pricier and not sure Dallas wants to deal him within the same division. Then again Nico Collins is a fucking moron so who knows. I'm sure there have already been conversations between he and PATFO regarding PJ though.

[mystargtr34]

Wrong thread.

[Maddog]

I would say no.
Atlanta moved on from Utah doesn't want him
Dated reference that sums him up
https://www.theringer.com/2021/03/22/nba/john-collins-atlanta-hawks-trade-deadline

[Dverde]

Porter was never the player Collins is tbh. And JC is on an expiring which means if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, nothing of real value was lost. If he does, he could likely re-signed on a reasonable deal imo.

If Collins is so great why did Atlanta trade him away for Rudy Gay and a second rounder? Why did the Spurs not want Collins added to the Dejounte trade? Why is Utah trying to trade him now? I don’t see the Hawks wanting him back, they know he is overrated. He’s basically Keldon, a player that had some promising years, but everyone knows is overpaid now. The only reason his salary looks okay is the entire league is giving out bigger contracts since he signed his. I don’t want to pay this guy 30M a year on an extension. Some dumb team will probably give him close to that based on his stat padding year on a bad tanking team.

[spurraider21]

why do you assholes keep making polls private

[Chinook]

I've long been a Collins stan, but I think folks are overrating him on this current team. If he doesn't start, he's not really an ideal backup center, and I don't know that he would start over a big wing PF. I think this past year was a sign that there's still a place for lineups with two interior bigs in certain situations. But Collins kind of splits the difference between a perimeter PF and a traditional big in a way that doesn't seem to get the true benefits of either. Ultimately, the weaknesses he shores up are those that must be addressed by all the players on the team. They cannot just be outsourced to some new players. Getting Collins or other bigs like Portis could help, but those guys aren't going to be playing the minutes the main guys will, and it's the main guys who have to carry their own weight. They did that for stretches last year, but they did keep it up the way they needed to.

[RC_Drunkford]

If Collins is so great why did Atlanta trade him away for Rudy Gay and a second rounder? Why did the Spurs not want Collins added to the Dejounte trade? Why is Utah trying to trade him now? I don’t see the Hawks wanting him back, they know he is overrated. He’s basically Keldon, a player that had some promising years, but everyone knows is overpaid now. The only reason his salary looks okay is the entire league is giving out bigger contracts since he signed his. I don’t want to pay this guy 30M a year on an extension. Some dumb team will probably give him close to that based on his stat padding year on a bad tanking team.


I would say no.
Atlanta moved on from Utah doesn't want him
Dated reference that sums him up
https://www.theringer.com/2021/03/22/nba/john-collins-atlanta-hawks-trade-deadline

stupid takes. Utah doesn't want him cause he hurts their tank. That's why they had him sit out every second game because he was giving them a chance to win.

ATL moved on from Collins because he had a season where he played through a finger injury on his shooting hand and thus had a down season.

[RC_Drunkford]

I've long been a Collins stan, but I think folks are overrating him on this current team. If he doesn't start, he's not really an ideal backup center, and I don't know that he would start over a big wing PF. I think this past year was a sign that there's still a place for lineups with two interior bigs in certain situations. But Collins kind of splits the difference between a perimeter PF and a traditional big in a way that doesn't seem to get the true benefits of either. Ultimately, the weaknesses he shores up are those that must be addressed by all the players on the team. They cannot just be outsourced to some new players. Getting Collins or other bigs like Portis could help, but those guys aren't going to be playing the minutes the main guys will, and it's the main guys who have to carry their own weight. They did that for stretches last year, but they did keep it up the way they needed to.

I don't think anybody here want him as a back up C. If we trade for Collins it's to play him as the starting PF next to Wemby.

[Dverde]

stupid takes. Utah doesn't want him cause he hurts their tank. That's why they had him sit out every second game because he was giving them a chance to win.

ATL moved on from Collins because he had a season where he played through a finger injury on his shooting hand and thus had a down season.

He helped their tank you idiot. They had the worst record in the NBA playing him every game :lol

[spurraider21]

I don't think anybody here want him as a back up C. If we trade for Collins it's to play him as the starting PF next to Wemby.
yeah i mean he could have spot minutes as a small 5 but he's be playing alongside wemby for most of his minutes, ideally

[spurraider21]

He helped their tank you idiot. They had the worst record in the NBA playing him every game :lol
they shelved him down the stretch

they went 12-28 with him, and 5-37 without him

[RC_Drunkford]

He helped their tank you idiot. They had the worst record in the NBA playing him every game :lol

you do realize an NBA season has 82 games right? Tell me again how 40 games equal 82. Did you even go to highschool? :lol

[Darkwaters]

He helped their tank you idiot. They had the worst record in the NBA playing him every game :lol

Yikes....dude only played 40 games last season

Check your numbers before mouthing off

[Dverde]

you do realize an NBA season has 82 games right? Tell me again how 40 games equal 82. Did you even go to highschool? :lol
I don’t follow the Utah jazz and jerk off to John Collins highlights. So the guy who gets hurt got hurt and you want to trade for him since he’s all healed up now :lol

[Darkwaters]

I don’t follow the Utah jazz and jerk off to John Collins highlights. So the guy who gets hurt got hurt and you want to trade for him since he’s all healed up now :lol

Move those goalposts baby

[Dverde]

So the guy is so good he played in 40 of 82 games and they had to shut him down to trade him then no team was willing to pay their ask at the trading deadline because Jazz value him so much that they are trying to trade him again :lol you Collins Stans are so funny. If he is so great he should opt out and let half of the NBA come do their presentations on accepting a new contract from them. But he didn’t he opted in because he knows no one will overpay him like he was overpaid last time. You had me last time with the “you don’t understand Otto Porter is actually really good”…now it’s John Collins…, it doesn’t pass the sniff test. He’s a serviceable player but the no way would I give up good assets to trade for him…nope nope nope.

[spurraider21]

So the guy is so good he played in 40 of 82 games and they had to shut him down to trade him then no team was willing to pay their ask at the trading deadline because Jazz value him so much that they are trying to trade him again :lol you Collins Stans are so funny. If he is so great he should opt out and let half of the NBA come do their presentations on accepting a new contract from them. But he didn’t he opted in because he knows no one will overpay him like he was overpaid last time. You had me last time with the “you don’t understand Otto Porter is actually really good”…now it’s John Collins…, it doesn’t pass the sniff test. He’s a serviceable player but the no way would I give up good assets to trade for him…nope nope nope.
people are suggesting trading keldon johnson and second round picks for him. nobody is saying he's incredible.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t follow the Utah jazz and jerk off to John Collins highlights. So the guy who gets hurt got hurt and you want to trade for him since he’s all healed up now :lol

"i dOn'T wAtCh aNyThInG bUt I kNoW eVeRyThInG"

he wasn't injured. Man you're slow


So the guy is so good he played in 40 of 82 games and they had to shut him down to trade him then no team was willing to pay their ask at the trading deadline because Jazz value him so much that they are trying to trade him again :lol you Collins Stans are so funny. If he is so great he should opt out and let half of the NBA come do their presentations on accepting a new contract from them. But he didn’t he opted in because he knows no one will overpay him like he was overpaid last time. You had me last time with the “you don’t understand Otto Porter is actually really good”…now it’s John Collins…, it doesn’t pass the sniff test. He’s a serviceable player but the no way would I give up good assets to trade for him…nope nope nope.

So you think Keldon Johnson and Malaki Branham are great players? :lmao

[objective]

jesus what made him age so badly he looks 35

He did have to stop juicing

[Dverde]

people are suggesting trading keldon johnson and second round picks for him. nobody is saying he's incredible.

Does anyone not want to trade Keldon and second rounder picks? That’s a yes simply that Collins is an expiring contract. Utah isn’t going to accept that. You’d have to give them more than that.

[LakerHater]

Didnt he sign a huge contract?

[Death In June]

Keldon / matching salary and next years pick swap. Id also be willing to part with Devon or Barnes instead of Keldon (in that order).

[mo7888]

Keldon / matching salary and next years pick swap. Id also be willing to part with Devon or Barnes instead of Keldon (in that order).

Huge overpay imo

[scott]

Plot twist: Spurs re-acquire Zach Collins

[tbdog]

Don't get the love for Collins here. I think he is fine. But moving forward, 20mil plus for him? Someone that cannot play center defensively and is well documented that he cannot play center. Much rather have Gathord for same price.

[bevo]

Would like him, but really depends on cost.

[Mikesatx]

Seems like Atlanta couldn’t wait to offload him after they signed him to his extension. My impression was he played well for his contract and once he got paid didn’t give much of a shit. I was super high on getting Lauri last year and worry he might be the same type of guy.

[DesignatedT]

I think he’s a pretty low BBIQ guy. His splits are nice but there’s something off here with this guy.

[spurraider21]

Keldon / matching salary and next years pick swap. Id also be willing to part with Devon or Barnes instead of Keldon (in that order).
If they really wanted token first round capital I’d offer them a swap with our 2027 hawks pick (not that it would be exercised)

[spurraider21]

Plot twist: Spurs re-acquire Zach Collins
The wrong Collins again!

[Death In June]

If they really wanted token first round capital I’d offer them a swap with our 2027 hawks pick (not that it would be exercised) You’re right. I forgot for a moment he is on the Jazz. I can see how the swap holds zero value.

[Chinook]

I don't think anybody here want him as a back up C. If we trade for Collins it's to play him as the starting PF next to Wemby.

That was the impression I got. My thing is that

a) if the Spurs were to invest heavily into a more traditional-big PF, that PF needs to be able to play center. Backup C is a much bigger need than folks seem to think, and that center likely doesn't have the skill-set that makes playing a traditional PF possible in the first place. The Spurs have too many wings and forwards to try to play Wemby and a specific big the bulk of their minutes together. Sochan and Johnson and/or Barnes are all PFs who'd get minutes. No matter what STers want, the Spurs aren't going to severely limit those guys so they can play a situational lineup big minutes every night.

b) Collins might not actually warrant a starting spot and the minutes that come with that. He's not a bad player, but if it comes to putting the best lineup on the floor, he might not be part of that. If he's not part of that, or if he can only be a PF in that lineup for part of his minutes, then he HAS to be able to play center to take advantage of the Wemby-less minutes on the court. It doesn't have to be every game for it to matter. If the pairing doesn't work against 10/29 teams, that can still be almost half the schedule and multiple playoff series where Collins apparently can't play because he can only play next to Wemby, and the match-up doesn't let him do that.

So yeah, that's why I'd much rather the Spurs approach it the other way, where the aim for a backup center with the hopes they can play with Wemby when the need arises and just run a modern PF next to Wemby most of the time. I wouldn't be particularly interested in trading for Collins unless I felt like he was going to be the backup center.

[scott]

If John Collins shooting 40% on 4 3PA/GM isn’t a “modern PF”, then I don’t know what qualifies as one

[LeBowen]

I feel like most people who don't want Collins don't realize how few options are out there if we assume we don't want to send multiple FRPs out.

[SPURt]

What’s the price? I voted no because the price would be too steep for a player not on the Spurs timeline that isn’t going to be the difference in winning a championship for this team

[alex40214]

I'm all for it to replace KJ/HB, if we can sign him short-term to something like 60~75/3yr, not hindering Castles contract.

[objective]

After his rookie year, he's started 97% of the games he's played. I think it's odd if people aren't convinced he's a starter.

[Mnky]

Belongs in the washed up role player thread tbh

That thread belonged in the off season thread.

[pad300]

I think we need someone who can play 4 beside Wemby (with Wemby at the 5), and be useful at both ends of the floor.

Sochan could be that guy, but he needs a 3 to do it.

Otherwise, we need to bring someone in. John Collins is a pretty attractive option.

[John B]

They should but knowing the Spurs, they would rather let Sochan proved himself

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I’m not pro or against Collins. He’s meh, whatever. I look at it from a role perspective. When you’re acquiring a player you must have a role for them, otherwise what is the point? Same with a ST favourite FA target LaRavia. Where would he play if he signs? You have to offer him a role, otherwise he can choose to go elsewhere.

In this sense the Spurs have a weird problem of having too many wings who would expect minutes, but at the same not being very good. Sochan, Barnes, Keldon, Champ, Bryant, Castle should and probably would play as a 3 some, and so will Vassell. Spurs are ripe for a consolidation type trade, clean up that mess and retain players with more clearly defined roles. The problem is that they also seem interested in preserving their flexibility, as they should, so I wouldn’t expect them to trade for long term contracts or trade any firsts away. I could see a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade where they acquire a player on an expensive but expiring contract. Don’t know who this could be.

So back to Collins, if it’s Keldon for Collins essentially, this doesn’t help clean up the roster at all. They need to do more but they may choose to keep their options and wait until the February deadline.

[jesterbobman]

Voted yes.

He's been part of my ideal offseason plan in the past, mostly as after getting stars, getting minutes to fit a rotation, and having no bad minutes are the ways to generate cheap wins. I think adding a backup C and a high level PF through trade are the key moves, so some combination of an acquisition through trade, and a non tax MLE are key.

I think improving back up C is more important than upgrading PF minutes, and think Collins isn't ideal...but he's probably an OK starter that we can get for Keldon + Utah 2026 2nd + one more second, the price for better fits is probably higher (I'm guessing PJ takes a first). I don't think there's a real option that opens up the title window at a reasonable price, but it's worth giving up something to be more standard good, and move up in to about the play-in.

PF: Laravia (MLE) / John Collins (Trade) / Naz Reid (MLE++) / PF to be named later.
Capela (part of MLE) / BroLo (part of MLE) / Horford (part of MLE) / Kornet (Part of MLE) / Rob Williams(T) / Wendell Carter (T).

There are a big variety of options to get that combo - happy as long as we hit on a combo that can work and gets us to a cohesive roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

Don't get the love for Collins here. I think he is fine. But moving forward, 20mil plus for him? Someone that cannot play center defensively and is well documented that he cannot play center. Much rather have Gathord for same price.

we are talking about starting PF not back up C. Gafford can't play PF.


Seems like Atlanta couldn’t wait to offload him after they signed him to his extension. My impression was he played well for his contract and once he got paid didn’t give much of a shit. I was super high on getting Lauri last year and worry he might be the same type of guy.

He played with an injured shooting hand and thus had a down season.

https://www.si.com/nba/hawks/news/bad-news-about-john-collins-finger-injury

this happened in the 2022/23 season which is the only season where he scored under 15 PPG (besides his rookie season) in his entire career. Due to the injury he only shot 29% from 3 (never shot under 36% from 3 otherwise since 2019) and also had his lowest rebound average as well. That coincided with his contract extension which is why the Hawks traded him. You look at his stats and can clearly see that that season is a complete outlier.

[RC_Drunkford]

That was the impression I got. My thing is that

a) if the Spurs were to invest heavily into a more traditional-big PF, that PF needs to be able to play center. Backup C is a much bigger need than folks seem to think, and that center likely doesn't have the skill-set that makes playing a traditional PF possible in the first place. The Spurs have too many wings and forwards to try to play Wemby and a specific big the bulk of their minutes together. Sochan and Johnson and/or Barnes are all PFs who'd get minutes. No matter what STers want, the Spurs aren't going to severely limit those guys so they can play a situational lineup big minutes every night.

b) Collins might not actually warrant a starting spot and the minutes that come with that. He's not a bad player, but if it comes to putting the best lineup on the floor, he might not be part of that. If he's not part of that, or if he can only be a PF in that lineup for part of his minutes, then he HAS to be able to play center to take advantage of the Wemby-less minutes on the court. It doesn't have to be every game for it to matter. If the pairing doesn't work against 10/29 teams, that can still be almost half the schedule and multiple playoff series where Collins apparently can't play because he can only play next to Wemby, and the match-up doesn't let him do that.

So yeah, that's why I'd much rather the Spurs approach it the other way, where the aim for a backup center with the hopes they can play with Wemby when the need arises and just run a modern PF next to Wemby most of the time. I wouldn't be particularly interested in trading for Collins unless I felt like he was going to be the backup center.

That player does not have to play C. If your starting PF is a 40% 3-point shooter he can play next to Wemby and next to a non-shooting back up big. The roster construction should not be catered to Jeremy Sochan and his non-existant jumpshot. Sochan is quick enough to be able to play SF as well and if his shot doesn't come along then he should keep losing minutes. This is just another one of your cases why the Spurs should sign your favorite player Bobby Portis.

If the Spurs would sign Luke Kornet for the MLE, Collins could play next to him without a problem.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m not pro or against Collins. He’s meh, whatever. I look at it from a role perspective. When you’re acquiring a player you must have a role for them, otherwise what is the point? Same with a ST favourite FA target LaRavia. Where would he play if he signs? You have to offer him a role, otherwise he can choose to go elsewhere.

In this sense the Spurs have a weird problem of having too many wings who would expect minutes, but at the same not being very good. Sochan, Barnes, Keldon, Champ, Bryant, Castle should and probably would play as a 3 some, and so will Vassell. Spurs are ripe for a consolidation type trade, clean up that mess and retain players with more clearly defined roles. The problem is that they also seem interested in preserving their flexibility, as they should, so I wouldn’t expect them to trade for long term contracts or trade any firsts away. I could see a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade where they acquire a player on an expensive but expiring contract. Don’t know who this could be.

So back to Collins, if it’s Keldon for Collins essentially, this doesn’t help clean up the roster at all. They need to do more but they may choose to keep their options and wait until the February deadline.

Fox/Harper
Castle/Champagnie
Vassell/Sochan/Bryant
Collins/Barnes
Wemby/Kornet

That rotation would be perfectly fine if you ask me. You can have Bryant play spot minutes here and there and have him compete with the other bench wings for playing time.

And if you want to make a splash at the deadline Devin and Barnes contracts equal to 46 million. You'd still have all kind of options.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Fox/Harper
Castle/Champagnie
Vassell/Sochan/Bryant
Collins/Barnes
Wemby/Kornet

That rotation would be perfectly fine if you ask me. You can have Bryant play spot minutes here and there and have him compete with the other bench wings for playing time.

And if you want to make a splash at the deadline Devin and Barnes contracts equal to 46 million. You'd still have all kind of options.

Well I don’t see it as perfectly fine at all. There’s a lot of positional overlap, a lot of shoehorning players into roles they’re not supposed to be in - Sochan isn’t a 3, Champ isn’t a 2, etc.

I’m not saying they wouldn’t go into the season like this, especially if they’re still experimenting, but I find it a huge mess.

Also, why would Kornet want to sign with the Spurs to be capped at 15 minutes a game when he could easily get a better role elsewhere, maybe even as a starter. He’s yet to make real money.

[RC_Drunkford]

Well I don’t see it as perfectly fine at all. There’s a lot of positional overlap, a lot of shoehorning players into roles they’re not supposed to be in - Sochan isn’t a 3, Champ isn’t a 2, etc.

I’m not saying they wouldn’t go into the season like this, especially if they’re still experimenting, but I find it a huge mess.

Also, why would Kornet want to sign with the Spurs to be capped at 15 minutes a game when he could easily get a better role elsewhere, maybe even as a starter. He’s yet to make real money.

these line ups are interchangeable. Devin can play the 2 and Champagnie the 3, etc. You can trade Barnes instead of Keldon and have Keldon play 3 and Sochan at 4 off the bench. You get the point.

Kornet was just an example. You can take Capela instead or whoever. The Spurs can throw the entire MLE at a back up big.

Not signing a starting 4 won‘t stop the shoehorning either. We‘ve been doing this for 6 years anyway.

[T Park]

What’s the price? I voted no because the price would be too steep for a player not on the Spurs timeline that isn’t going to be the difference in winning a championship for this team

Fuck the timeline.

Time to be a fucking winning team again.

[Chinook]

If John Collins shooting 40% on 4 3PA/GM isn’t a “modern PF”, then I don’t know what qualifies as one

Barnes is also a good three-point shooter. Pretty sure you don't think they're the same player.

[John B]

I would love to get John Collins. But I know that the Spurs don’t normally give up easily on their players. They would rather have Sochan prove himself for the starting 4.

I see them bringing in a backup C though, maybe Capela. Then depends on where they at by trade deadline, tweak or add a player from waivers. Wemby is a magnet for ring chasers (I know they’re far from ringing) but we’ve seen players having the Spurs as their preferred destination including recently KD. So the Spurs will play the long game, wait the River and decide.

[Chinook]

That player does not have to play C. If your starting PF is a 40% 3-point shooter he can play next to Wemby and next to a non-shooting back up big. The roster construction should not be catered to Jeremy Sochan and his non-existant jumpshot. Sochan is quick enough to be able to play SF as well and if his shot doesn't come along then he should keep losing minutes. This is just another one of your cases why the Spurs should sign your favorite player Bobby Portis.

If the Spurs would sign Luke Kornet for the MLE, Collins could play next to him without a problem.

Shooting is not the most important thing when it comes to Wemby's front-court partner. That's why Victor was more effective next to Bassey than Zach. Collins/Wemby might work because Victor takes so much space away that John can survive at PF. Even a normal good backuo center doesn't do that. That people want to treat the non-Wemby minutes as an afterthought boggles my mind. Those are the minutes in which the Spurs were killed. If they'd been even a decent defense during his off time, they would be elite over all.

For me, the plan should be:

1) Get a real 25 MPG center who can play tough interior D and score inside.

2} Plan on Vic getting 33 MPG and play with that center 10 minutes a night.

3) Plan to play modern forwards at PF 38 minutes a game. If you're moving contracts, try to get another combo-forward in the deal.

4) Plan to give a lot of SF minutes to Castle, Vassell and Champagnie

5) Actually coach guys to rotate, get back and box out. Hire Thibs as a defensive consultant.

[LeBowen]

Shooting is not the most important thing when it comes to Wemby's front-court partner.

It might not be the most important thing for Wemby, but it is for the roster as a whole since the front office decided that 2nd/3rd/4th most important players on the roster will be guards who aren't known for their shooting.


That's why Victor was more effective next to Bassey than Zach.

Or maybe it was because Zach was absolute garbage?


That people want to treat the non-Wemby minutes as an afterthought boggles my mind. Those are the minutes in which the Spurs were killed. If they'd been even a decent defense during his off time, they would be elite over all.

For me, the plan should be:

1) Get a real 25 MPG center who can play tough interior D and score inside.

2} Plan on Vic getting 33 MPG and play with that center 10 minutes a night.

3) Plan to play modern forwards at PF 38 minutes a game. If you're moving contracts, try to get another combo-forward in the deal.

4) Plan to give a lot of SF minutes to Castle, Vassell and Champagnie

5) Actually coach guys to rotate, get back and box out. Hire Thibs as a defensive consultant.

This is where we agree except for the last point because we already got defensive assistants.
Claxton+Cam seems like a perfect package and the Nets are surely open to trading them. Washington+Gafford also looks great.

[mo7888]

It might not be the most important thing for Wemby, but it is for the roster as a whole since the front office decided that 2nd/3rd/4th most important players on the roster will be guards who aren't known for their shooting.



Or maybe it was because Zach was absolute garbage?



This is where we agree except for the last point because we already got defensive assistants.
Claxton+Cam seems like a perfect package and the Nets are surely open to trading them. Washington+Gafford also looks great.

Personally, im good with the Brooklyn or Dallas package. I'd go with whichever team values Devin the most since he'd be part of the trade.

[RC_Drunkford]

Shooting is not the most important thing when it comes to Wemby's front-court partner. That's why Victor was more effective next to Bassey than Zach. Collins/Wemby might work because Victor takes so much space away that John can survive at PF. Even a normal good backuo center doesn't do that. That people want to treat the non-Wemby minutes as an afterthought boggles my mind. Those are the minutes in which the Spurs were killed. If they'd been even a decent defense during his off time, they would be elite over all.

For me, the plan should be:

1) Get a real 25 MPG center who can play tough interior D and score inside.

2} Plan on Vic getting 33 MPG and play with that center 10 minutes a night.

3) Plan to play modern forwards at PF 38 minutes a game. If you're moving contracts, try to get another combo-forward in the deal.

4) Plan to give a lot of SF minutes to Castle, Vassell and Champagnie

5) Actually coach guys to rotate, get back and box out. Hire Thibs as a defensive consultant.

see I knew you was going to say this now, but why didn't you say it first? If you are saying instead of a starting PF we should bring in a starting C, so that Victor can play some minutes at PF I get it.

The question is: who is that player? Other than Kornet, Gafford and Claxton I don't see a lot of options. Claxton ain't strong, but mobile enough to guard on the perimeter, so he would work. He'd cost you a first though.

If the plan is to bring in a starting C who can play together with Vic for the first 6 minutes of each half, that means having Barnes/Sochan as a back up would be enough. This is also a reason why I liked the trading up for Maluach idea.

But the fact is that players who can exclusively play PF are cheap on the market right now and Cs are quite expensive. Collins and Aldama cost multiple second rounders. I don't know what the price for Washington is, but it's probably a little bit higher.

Even if you get a starting C, there's no reason not to try and get a starting caliber 4 as well.

The Spurs should try to upgrade players in their rotation regardless. If they don't cost you first round picks, you get those guys. It's much easier to package those players in a consolidation trade for an All-Star later down the line, than to talk teams into trading them here for Keldon Johnson, Harrison Barnes and Malaki Branham. If you can give teams a John Collins, Devin Vassell package they at least get 2 starting caliber players back. Houston just did the same with Dillon Brooks.

Point 5 is redundant, we got Sweeney and Williamson. There's no reason for Thibs to be here.



This is where we agree except for the last point because we already got defensive assistants.
Claxton+Cam seems like a perfect package and the Nets are surely open to trading them. Washington+Gafford also looks great.

exactly, that would basically be killing 2 birds with 1 stone

[Chinook]

It might not be the most important thing for Wemby, but it is for the roster as a whole since the front office decided that 2nd/3rd/4th most important players on the roster will be guards who aren't known for their shooting.



Or maybe it was because Zach was absolute garbage?



This is where we agree except for the last point because we already got defensive assistants.
Claxton+Cam seems like a perfect package and the Nets are surely open to trading them. Washington+Gafford also looks great.

Yes, the Spurs aren't going anywhere if their best players csnt carry their weight in terms of shoot, defense and rebounding. It's why folks shouldn't be trying to make Castle a locked in part of their core. He HAS to be able to shoot, or he can't be a starter. Harper is already a decent off-ball shooter, which is why I'm not worried about him nearly as much. But the Spurs already had great shooting from their starting PF.

Collins doesn't actually suck. He didn't suck with the Spurs or Bulls last year. I'm not going tell everyone he's the best center in the league, but the talent wasn't the issue. It was the lack of vertical threat. Yes, the Spurs now have guards who'll help there. But a big who dives to the rim is more helpful for spacing than one who stands on the perimeter.

They need better defensive assistants. Sweeney was a good start, but the team should be much more aggressive in putting their staff together to give Mitch a chance to succeed. Coaching is the team's biggest weakness, and the organization is still treating it like it's a strength

[RC_Drunkford]

if we go with the "run it back" rotation:

Fox/Harper
Castle/Champagnie
Vassell/Keldon
Barnes/Sochan
Wemby/Biyombo

The Spurs should look to simply upgrade certain rotation pieces. Something like:

Keldon upgrade: 1. RJ Barrett 2. LaRavia

Mamu upgrade: 1. Yabusele

Barnes upgrade: 1. John Collins 2. PJ Washington 3. Santi Aldama 4. Cam Johnson 5. Rui Hachimura

Biyombo upgrade: 1. Claxton 2. Gafford 3. Kornet 4. Brook Lopez 5. Capela

Just see what the best price is for these guys and go get 2 of them. The team should be much better with those additions.

[Dejounte]

if we go with the "run it back" rotation:

Fox/Harper
Castle/Champagnie
Vassell/Keldon
Barnes/Sochan
Wemby/Biyombo

The Spurs should look to simply upgrade certain rotation pieces. Something like:

Keldon upgrade: 1. RJ Barrett 2. LaRavia

Mamu upgrade: 1. Yabusele

Barnes upgrade: 1. John Collins 2. PJ Washington 3. Santi Aldama 4. Cam Johnson 5. Rui Hachimura

Biyombo upgrade: 1. Claxton 2. Gafford 3. Kornet 4. Brook Lopez 5. Capela

Just see what the best price is for these guys and go get 2 of them. The team should be much better with those additions.

Barnes is the FO’s new pet. No way he’s being replaced anytime soon. He’ll be pushed down by a player significantly better than him but otherwise he probably remains as the starter. The upgrade I’m anticipating is a Vassell one or a Biyombo one, maybe both.

[ginobilized]

if we go with the "run it back" rotation:

Fox/Harper
Castle/Champagnie
Vassell/Keldon
Barnes/Sochan
Wemby/Biyombo

The Spurs should look to simply upgrade certain rotation pieces. Something like:

Keldon upgrade: 1. RJ Barrett 2. LaRavia

Mamu upgrade: 1. Yabusele

Barnes upgrade: 1. John Collins 2. PJ Washington 3. Santi Aldama 4. Cam Johnson 5. Rui Hachimura

Biyombo upgrade: 1. Claxton 2. Gafford 3. Kornet 4. Brook Lopez 5. Capela

Just see what the best price is for these guys and go get 2 of them. The team should be much better with those additions.

Did you forget Bryant or do you not think he'll get time with the SA squad this season?

[Dejounte]

Pencil Barnes in the rotation for 20 minutes minimum, whether as a starter or a backup (if they find someone, which I doubt. Or if Sochan has vastly improved)

[RC_Drunkford]

Did you forget Bryant or do you not think he'll get time with the SA squad this season?

I think he's basically competing with Champagnie as 10th man and that's a good thing. It's ok to have guys at the end of the roster competing for playing time. I'm not set on having 10 good players and that's it. There should be some guys in the back end who can slide up once we make a trade.

[RC_Drunkford]

by the way the Spurs own the 2026 Utah Jazz second round pick. With the Jazz tanking again for AJ Dybantsa, that should be one in the early 30s and would give us at least a little more leverage in the John Collins sweepstakes.

[LeBowen]

Collins doesn't actually suck. He didn't suck with the Spurs or Bulls last year

I honestly don't know what to tell you if you actually believe in this.

[T Park]

I honestly don't know what to tell you if you actually believe in this.

Zach Collins played VERY well for the Bulls.

[scott]

Barnes is also a good three-point shooter. Pretty sure you don't think they're the same player.

I don’t think they are the same player and I’m not sure where you would imply that.

John Collins does PF things with a PF body. He also shoots 40% from 3. It’s the combination of these things, rather than just simply his 3P%, that makes hi what I would call a “modern PF”.

Harrison Barnes is not the same player as John Collins because, despite their similar 3P%, they play very differently. Collins does PF things that Barnes does not. Barnes does SF things that Collins does not. But I don’t want Collins to play SF, I want him to play PF.

I cannot believe that this had to be explained.

But, for the sake of the discussion, maybe you can explain what a “traditional PF” is and what a “modern PF” is in this context. I ask because following the logic of your post, you made the assertion that if a player is a “traditional PF” he must also play center. You then talk about how Collins can’t play center (which I think most people agree with outside of very specific small ball lineups). This would seem to imply that you think Collins is a “traditional PF”. You then say you prefer that would prefer to play a “Modern PF” next to Wemby, suggesting that you don’t view Collins as a “Modern PF”.

So… what is a Traditional PF and what is a Modern PF? Because to many of us, Collins looks like a modern PF. The proposed acquisition of him would be to play that role, not to play “Traditional PF” or C.

I think your logical premise is a good one we should talk about: “If Player is a Trad PF, then Player also must be a C, otherwise Player must be a Modern PF.” Yep, I’m on board with that… let’s agree on that! But now that leaves us with talking about who qualifies as these things. I agree that John Collins is not a C. I don’t agree that John Collins is a “trad PF” and not a “Modern PF”. Let’s talk about that.

[LeBowen]

Zach Collins played VERY well for the Bulls.

Maybe on offense.
His defense is so bad that he'd need to be on Vucevic's level on offense to not be a net negative.

[LeBowen]

So… what is a Traditional PF and what is a Modern PF? Because to many of us, Collins looks like a modern PF. The proposed acquisition of him would be to play that role, not to play “Traditional PF” or C.

I think your logical premise is a good one we should talk about: “If Player is a Trad PF, then Player also must be a C, otherwise Player must be a Modern PF.” Yep, I’m on board with that… let’s agree on that! But now that leaves us with talking about who qualifies as these things. I agree that John Collins is not a C. I don’t agree that John Collins is a “trad PF” and not a “Modern PF”. Let’s talk about that.

All this role talk is pointless to me.
It's obvious modern basketball is moving in a direction where lineup compositon doesn't matter as long as you can defend well enough.
If we can get away with Barnes at PF and somehow still fix our rebounding issues, then I see no reason to get someone more physical. But we probably can't.

Jeremy would definitely be ideal as a starter next to Wemby if we're talking defense. We'd gain so much value if he can fix his shot and get to a respectable level, just enough so teams actually have to put some kind of contest on him.
28-30-34-30-0
You know what are those numbers?
3pt percentage of OKC starters in the playoffs.

If we're trying to build the best defensive lineup in the league, which Harper/Castle/Bryant/Sochan/Wemby can definitely be 3 years down the road, we just need everyone to be in that 33-36% range while not turning down shots they're supposed to take.

[scott]

Shooting is not the most important thing when it comes to Wemby's front-court partner. That's why Victor was more effective next to Bassey than Zach. Collins/Wemby might work because Victor takes so much space away that John can survive at PF. Even a normal good backuo center doesn't do that. That people want to treat the non-Wemby minutes as an afterthought boggles my mind. Those are the minutes in which the Spurs were killed. If they'd been even a decent defense during his off time, they would be elite over all.

For me, the plan should be:

1) Get a real 25 MPG center who can play tough interior D and score inside.

2} Plan on Vic getting 33 MPG and play with that center 10 minutes a night.

3) Plan to play modern forwards at PF 38 minutes a game. If you're moving contracts, try to get another combo-forward in the deal.

4) Plan to give a lot of SF minutes to Castle, Vassell and Champagnie

5) Actually coach guys to rotate, get back and box out. Hire Thibs as a defensive consultant.

Victor and Bassey have played 61 minutes together for Vic’s entire career. All of those minutes happened in Victor’s rookie season. In those 61 minutes, the team posted a -5 NETRTG.

It seems to me that you’re basing a lot of your Big Man worldview on a small sample of outdated information. We’re free to disagree, but I’ll just go on the record and say that I don’t believe that 61 minutes from two seasons ago (which weren’t even very effective) should form much of the basis of how we view roster construction around Wemby.

[scott]

All this role talk is pointless to me.

You aren’t required to respond to, or even read this discussion.

[LeBowen]

You aren’t required to respond to, or even read this discussion.

<.<
You misunderstood my point.
I'm saying that we don't need to corner the roster into a certain style of lineups.
We can make it work without a traditional PF if we can fix our team rebounding.

The entire small ball gimmick by peak Warriors was based on running bigger and slower players off the floor.
If our PG/SG/SF perimeter defense is elite, we don't need a big PF because there's no way for opposing teams with big PF/C duos to stay on the floor against Wemby and an elite shooter like Barnes was this season.

We kind of made it work in that stretch with CP3/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby lineup, despite having two slow veterans, then Devin recovered and our defense plummeted when he replaced Champ.
Then Jeremy recovered and our spacing was fucked.
We can't have an undersized lineup that's also poor from behind the arc, but we most definitely can run an undersized lineup if the shooting is good enough.

D'Antoni's basketball was a gimmick, but you can't say he wasn't onto something.
Our guards won't be on the level of prime Harden and CP3, but if those two had Webmy's rim protection and range, the league would've been just as broken as it was when KD joined the Warriors.

[scott]

<.<
You misunderstood my point.
I'm saying that we don't need to corner the roster into a certain style of lineups.
We can make it work without a traditional PF if we can fix our team rebounding.

The entire small ball gimmick by peak Warriors was based on running bigger and slower players off the floor.
If our PG/SG/SF perimeter defense is elite, we don't need a big PF because there's no way for opposing teams with big PF/C duos to stay on the floor against Wemby and an elite shooter like Barnes was this season.

We kind of made it work in that stretch with CP3/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby lineup, despite having two slow veterans, then Devin recovered and our defense plummeted when he replaced Champ.
Then Jeremy recovered and our spacing was fucked.
We can't have an undersized lineup that's also poor from behind the arc, but we most definitely can run an undersized lineup if the shooting is good enough.

D'Antoni's basketball was a gimmick, but you can't say he wasn't onto something.
Our guards won't be on the level of prime Harden and CP3, but if those two had Webmy's rim protection and range, the league would've been just as broken as it was when KD joined the Warriors.

You miss my point. If you aren’t interested, don’t respond.

But I’m interested, which is why I’m engaging with another poster.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER

[LeBowen]

You miss my point. If you aren’t interested, don’t respond.

But I’m interested, which is why I’m engaging with another poster.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER

I feel like Danny Green right now...

https://d3c0lac2dv59sb.cloudfront.net/g8pejs%2Fpreview%2F68516161%2Fmain_large.gif?respo nse-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22main_large.gif% 22%3B&response-content-type=image%2Fgif&Expires=1751042482&Signature=EY2fDS3FoP9QMLOMYypWyViX3CCOEutdDE1ALtw6 W8Jjr3~6jgrXnRphGdDXRYOmD7KMFju1t34jVRuVp2-nLXx~y-Ml~BgK3rSjQs64KbgGff81ykxtBkTQSoCyvQJkFSE6LpbPzo2O c2vOfP00xmd4CgJNRSMqsK52-zkAsNSSSNkpFAPzP~m427tfal-WgMOoJz2GA6eMcGJopj0FKXBV5gEquhiq1A7lvr5YxNifrLX~8 KelFk2m7NKfOpXqTnLdduVTdg~H64XcVytjIORiFeaJusEdb~e TmIeiRmeklSFEAa4TMJoqUpSmGvUDSgJz3qloMgCK2JfNFVdFe A__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJT5WQLLEOADKLHBQ

[spurraider21]

All this role talk is pointless to me.


You aren’t required to respond to, or even read this discussion.
Mom, Dad... please stop fighting

[RC_Drunkford]

<.<
You misunderstood my point.
I'm saying that we don't need to corner the roster into a certain style of lineups.
We can make it work without a traditional PF if we can fix our team rebounding.

The entire small ball gimmick by peak Warriors was based on running bigger and slower players off the floor.
If our PG/SG/SF perimeter defense is elite, we don't need a big PF because there's no way for opposing teams with big PF/C duos to stay on the floor against Wemby and an elite shooter like Barnes was this season.

We kind of made it work in that stretch with CP3/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby lineup, despite having two slow veterans, then Devin recovered and our defense plummeted when he replaced Champ.
Then Jeremy recovered and our spacing was fucked.
We can't have an undersized lineup that's also poor from behind the arc, but we most definitely can run an undersized lineup if the shooting is good enough.

D'Antoni's basketball was a gimmick, but you can't say he wasn't onto something.
Our guards won't be on the level of prime Harden and CP3, but if those two had Webmy's rim protection and range, the league would've been just as broken as it was when KD joined the Warriors.

I mean the whole point of getting John Collins (or PJ or Santi) as a PF is to fix the rebounding issue while maintaining the Barnes level shooting. Having a physical PF who can space the floor and get boards would really help to unlock Wemby.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I mean the whole point of getting John Collins (or PJ or Santi) as a PF is to fix the rebounding issue while maintaining the Barnes level shooting. Having a physical PF who can space the floor and get boards would really help to unlock Wemby.

Yes, THIS!!!!

The whole point of bringing in a true PF / backup C / stretch 4 is to maintain spacing and defense while improving rebounding. It's why Sochan won't work at the 4 along our 3 non-shooters.

John Collins solves a lot of the issues we have.

[LeBowen]

I mean the whole point of getting John Collins (or PJ or Santi) as a PF is to fix the rebounding issue while maintaining the Barnes level shooting. Having a physical PF who can space the floor and get boards would really help to unlock Wemby.

None of them are Barnes level shooters. They're great shooters for their role, but they're players teams try and help off and get punished.
Barnes was elite this season and is an actual shooter. We wouldn't run off the ball screens for John Collins to get an open 3pt look.

Obviously I'd replace Barnes with one of those three, no question, but my previous post was about the idea of not running traditional PFs in the lineup which can obviously be done even if Barnes starts, let alone a defensively better SF who's also a good shooter.

[Dejounte]

Yes, THIS!!!!

The whole point of bringing in a true PF / backup C / stretch 4 is to maintain spacing and defense while improving rebounding. It's why Sochan won't work at the 4 along our 3 non-shooters.

John Collins solves a lot of the issues we have.

You guys keep assuming that’s how the FO wants to build the team. Trust me, I get it. I wanted it too. But they show us again and again with their moves that they want a modern, mobile PF vs a taller one who lacks the lateral quickness to consistently be on the perimeter to defend quicker guys. They want a guy there that roams outside the paint vs staying in it on defense.

[Sugus]

It's all about his finger / shooting hand with John Collins imo. If the feel is he can still shoot effectively despite the fucked-up hand, he's clearly worth some assets at least, on positional depth and versatility alone. If you don't trust that finger though, hard pass.

[HankChinaski]

I dont understand the hate on this guy. He is a hustle do the dirty work player . Provides some defensive utility and rebounding at the 4. Has nice touch and handles around the rim. A little range from 3.

Watched several games last season and he was solid through out.

The ideal role player you can slot in the starting lineup at the 4 that is going to be a net positive with starting unit.

[TD 21]

You guys keep assuming that’s how the FO wants to build the team. Trust me, I get it. I wanted it too. But they show us again and again with their moves that they want a modern, mobile PF vs a taller one who lacks the lateral quickness to consistently be on the perimeter to defend quicker guys. They want a guy there that roams outside the paint vs staying in it on defense.

Yeah, Collins (Portis is another, though he'll probably re-sign with the Bucks) is the antithesis of the type of player they've long preferred at PF, which is a big wing (Diaw, Gay, Barnes).

The problem with the former archetype is, other than spot up shooting, you don't get the benefit ball skill wise of four perimeter players surrounding Wembanyama, thereby forcing the opposing C to defend him, when most don't stand a chance.

If they acquire a rotational PF/combo big, they'll probably just sign Yabusele. Although if they don't decongest the wing-forward rotation in the process, he'd have to play almost exclusively as the solo big, which is a recipe for disaster rim protection/defensive rebounding wise.

[Dejounte]

Lanky, versatile types the Spurs like (listing both attainable and unattainable)
-Jalen Williams
-Pascal Siakam
-Tari Eason
-Obi Toppin
-Aaron Gordon
-Jonathan Kuminga
-Tobias Harris
-maybe PJ Washington but he may be a little too slow and doesn’t compensate it enough with his strength
-OG Anunoby
-Jaden McDaniels
-Toumani Camara
-Scottie Barnes
-Kyle Kuzma
-Trey Murphy III
-Herb Jones

[LeBowen]

I keep wondering if we could get Okongwu with Devin, ATL pick and swap returned.
It's one of the few teams that actually needs a player like Devin, but I doubt they'd trade Okongwu.

[spurraider21]

thats a lot to give for a backup C

pass

[RC_Drunkford]

None of them are Barnes level shooters. They're great shooters for their role, but they're players teams try and help off and get punished.
Barnes was elite this season and is an actual shooter. We wouldn't run off the ball screens for John Collins to get an open 3pt look.

Obviously I'd replace Barnes with one of those three, no question, but my previous post was about the idea of not running traditional PFs in the lineup which can obviously be done even if Barnes starts, let alone a defensively better SF who's also a good shooter.

John Collins shoots a better percentage from the corners than Barnes. Park Collins in the corner so he can cut to the rim occassionally and it's perfect, since he's a lob threat as well. He shot 40% on similar attempt numbers (0.7 less than Barnes) and that was on a terrible team. He'd get a way better shot diet on the Spurs than on the Jazz.

[LeBowen]

John Collins shoots a better percentage from the corners than Barnes. Park Collins in the corner so he can cut to the rim occassionally and it's perfect, since he's a lob threat as well. He shot 40% on similar attempt numbers (0.7 less than Barnes) and that was on a terrible team. He'd get a way better shot diet on the Spurs than on the Jazz.

He shot 53% from one and 29% from the other corner.
I'm all for Collins as a starter over Barnes because he offers more than just shooting, but Barnes is clearly a bigger 3pt threat and that was all I was saying.

[Dverde]

Just want to point out that Harrison Barnes made almost a hundred more 3pt shots than Collins last year. He has this trick about being available to play in games.

[Dex]

Just want to point out that Harrison Barnes made almost a hundred more 3pt shots than Collins last year. He has this trick about being available to play in games.

KAWHI LEONARD HATES THIS ONE TRICK!!!

[mystargtr34]

Barnes has been a terrific stop gap solution at the 4 because of his shooting, but the position needs an upgrade if the Spurs want to make the playoffs imo. Barnes is a poor rebounder, has been for most of his career and has regressed further with the Spurs. Defensive rebounding is arguably the biggest weakness the team has (26th in DRB% last season) other than maybe defense as a whole (25th in DRTG last season). That’s not entirely on Barnes they had poor rebounders and defenders scattered throughout the lineups last year. The catch is the replacement needs to be able to his 3’s close to Barnes level while providing better rebounding and/or defense. Collins does the rebounding part better, not sure if he’s any better defensively, and he’s a slightly worse shooter.

[scott]

Just putting this on the record... here is what is going to happen:

Step 1. A bunch of tweets will say the Spurs are interested in John Collins
Step 2. Online betting sites will list the Spurs as a heavy favorite to get Collins at some point
Step 3. Some other team* will acquire John Collins for a price that seems completely reasonable the Spurs could have easily met
Step 4. People will complain the Spurs didn't get John Collins
Step 5. In reality, it turns out the Spurs were never actually interested in John Collins
Step 6. A new trade candidate will emerge, the cycle will repeat

*Probably the Lakers

[Blizzardwizard]

Just putting this on the record... here is what is going to happen:

Step 1. A bunch of tweets will say the Spurs are interested in John Collins
Step 2. Online betting sites will list the Spurs as a heavy favorite to get Collins at some point
Step 3. Some other team* will acquire John Collins for a price that seems completely reasonable the Spurs could have easily met
Step 4. People will complain the Spurs didn't get John Collins
Step 5. In reality, it turns out the Spurs were never actually interested in John Collins
Step 6. A new trade candidate will emerge, the cycle will repeat

*Probably the Lakers


step 7: spurs don't sign a worthwhile PF or backup C this offseason and sniffers tell us to be patient because there'll be players available at the trade deadline


step 8: spurs don't sign a worthwhile PF or backup C at the trade deadline and sniffers tell us to be patient because there'll be players available in the offseason


step 9: spurs don't sign a worthwhile PF or backup C in the offseas-

[objective]

Collins is much better on defense and twice the rebounder Barnes is. Barnes is toast and is the next Michael Finley ... Once he loses that shot watch out, Lovecraftian monster level.

27 minutes a game spent on Barnes.

That's where the team next improves. People talking up replacing 15 minutes of backup center play as the most important thing in the world and ignoring the 27 minutes of shame with no defense, no rebounds Barnes ... Wut?

[BatManu20]

So easy to see what a seamless fit he would be beside Wemby. And in the PnR with De'Aaron Fox. He likes the corner 3 a lot too, similar to Barnes, Bowen, etc. Works hard on the glass and he's an underrated passer too. Spurs need to make this happen tbh.

NKe4MWcgep4

orqrAlH2LmE

vhaaxBh0Gk8

1gXLVkqRU5U

[Dverde]

Just putting this on the record... here is what is going to happen:

Step 1. A bunch of tweets will say the Spurs are interested in John Collins
Step 2. Online betting sites will list the Spurs as a heavy favorite to get Collins at some point
Step 3. Some other team* will acquire John Collins for a price that seems completely reasonable the Spurs could have easily met
Step 4. People will complain the Spurs didn't get John Collins
Step 5. In reality, it turns out the Spurs were never actually interested in John Collins
Step 6. A new trade candidate will emerge, the cycle will repeat

*Probably the Lakers

This is Collin’s’ third lap as the trade candidate with the JC fanboys on here. 1) before he signed his last contract, Spurs must pursue and offer huge contract! 2) DJ to ATL, we need Collins for the rebuild! 3) now the missing piece the Spurs desperately need!

[scott]

This is Collin’s’ third lap as the trade candidate with the JC fanboys on here. 1) before he signed his last contract, Spurs must pursue and offer huge contract! 2) DJ to ATL, we need Collins for the rebuild! 3) now the missing piece the Spurs desperately need!

Like I joked earlier... Zach Collins inbound again...

At least it's better than Doug Collins, I suppose

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Rather have a Tom Collins

-- pop/rc

[Dverde]

https://youtu.be/pME_RiAYRQI?si=-HUJHBVWwLLHIlqm


https://youtu.be/6F7JCYJ1myw?si=sd5wSo3i7TmFCGLr

[CGD]

We just drafted a better version of Collins. Go get Lopez

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/pME_RiAYRQI?si=-HUJHBVWwLLHIlqm


https://youtu.be/6F7JCYJ1myw?si=sd5wSo3i7TmFCGLr

Dverde turning in a shift here.

[Dverde]

https://youtu.be/r0qBaBb1Y-U?si=ZVQ6VulJtuQ6ZHJC

[BatManu20]

https://youtu.be/pME_RiAYRQI?si=-HUJHBVWwLLHIlqm


https://youtu.be/6F7JCYJ1myw?si=sd5wSo3i7TmFCGLr


Now show their averages. Acting like Zollins is on the same level as JC :lol

[HankChinaski]

J. Collins has better footwork and overall touch at the rim. Consistently uses the euro step at his length. Takes better advantage of space and movement without the ball.

Quite spamming Zach as a comparison

[scott]

No one is spamming Zach as a comparison... it's a joke, because everyone wanted John Collins when he was a FA a few years ago and then we went out and signed Zach Collins

[RC_Drunkford]

it's funny to me that people think a guy who can drop 20 and 10 on any given night should not be a trade target. Like besides Wemby, there's not one player on this entire roster who can put up these numbers.

People are in love with Harrison Barnes who was salary dumped by the Sacramento Kings. Maybe he looks so good here, because that's how bad our roster is? Even CP3 who's super washed up looked good on the Spurs. The bar really ain't that high.

[ginobilized]

No doubt, John Collins is the archetype for our PF woes. I'm just not sure he is the person the Spurs want or that he comes at the price tag the Spurs want to pay.
I'm on board if the Spurs go this way, I just don't think they will. Utah will be fielding some great offers from other teams, too. Doubtful that the Spurs will have the best offer.

PJ Washington would be my number 1, though he's probably even less likely.

Monday can't come soon enough.

[Ice009]

I don't think the Mavs are trading PJ Washington. Mark Cuban was talking about running Cooper Flagg at PG, Klay at SG, PJ Washington at SF, Davis at PF and Lively at C for one of the biggest lineups in the NBA. Sounds like PJ is in their plans to keep.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think the Mavs are trading PJ Washington. Mark Cuban was talking about running Cooper Flagg at PG, Klay at SG, PJ Washington at SF, Davis at PF and Lively at C for one of the biggest lineups in the NBA. Sounds like PJ is in their plans to keep.

PJ is an expiring. I doubt he'll extend there with that type of logjam at the 4, plus other teams will most likely offer him more money than the Mavs

[Em-City]

This is Collin’s’ third lap as the trade candidate with the JC fanboys on here. 1) before he signed his last contract, Spurs must pursue and offer huge contract! 2) DJ to ATL, we need Collins for the rebuild! 3) now the missing piece the Spurs desperately need!

I love how he has accepted the role and remained efficiently productive in Utah, and for that reason this 3rd rumour cycle is the one that actually makes the most sense for SA, especially given the urgency to activate wemby's window and the limited options in the market currently.

It's round 3 for many but this is the first time I'm in on the JC wagon

[Ice009]

PJ is an expiring. I doubt he'll extend there with that type of logjam at the 4, plus other teams will most likely offer him more money than the Mavs

They can extend him if they want, can't they, or are you saying he'll make more in the open market than what the Mavs can extend him for? He might even want to stay for a discount.

[Raven]

stop trading for shit players

[TimDunkem]

John Collins isn't shit, but I wouldn't trade any great assets for him. Certainly no FRPs.

[DAF86]

Collins is pretty meh, there's a reason neither Atlanta nor Utah now did much to keep him. However, he would basically be a younger version of Barnes for us and that should mean a slight improvement, tbh.

Turn Barnes into Collins and Keldon into Vucevic and you get:

Fox ------------- Harper
Castle --------- Champagnie
Vassell --------- Bryant
Collins ----------- Sochan
Wemby ---------- Vucevic

That's a pretty stacked rotation 10 that should be enough to make the playoffs, imho.

[exstatic]

I don't think the Mavs are trading PJ Washington. Mark Cuban was talking about running Cooper Flagg at PG, Klay at SG, PJ Washington at SF, Davis at PF and Lively at C for one of the biggest lineups in the NBA. Sounds like PJ is in their plans to keep.
Cuban isn’t making the decisions any more.

[BatManu20]

Utah trying to move Collins. Make it happen PATFO.

1939429488636424547

[Mr. Body]

While I do think the Spurs would be interested in one year of John Collins, I truly don't think they are going to exile one of their guys to the Jazz. Serious about this. Every non-Kawhi player they've moved has gone to a good situation. It's part of their ongoing appeal: we don't fuck you over.

[LeBowen]

While I do think the Spurs would be interested in one year of John Collins, I truly don't think they are going to exile one of their guys to the Jazz. Serious about this. Every non-Kawhi player they've moved has gone to a good situation. It's part of their ongoing appeal: we don't fuck you over.

Why would the Jazz be a worse situation that Chicago?
They're a way better ran franchise.

[Mr. Body]

Why would the Jazz be a worse situation that Chicago?
They're a way better ran franchise.

You mean DeRozan? He wanted to go there, didn't he?

Jazz look to suck on purpose for a good long while.

[LeBowen]

You mean DeRozan? He wanted to go there, didn't he?

Jazz look to suck on purpose for a good long while.

I was referring to Tre and Collins.
That's the only trade that should be relevant because we were upgrading.

When we started the tank, players were going to teams currently better than us.

[Mr. Body]

I was referring to Tre and Collins.
That's the only trade that should be relevant because we were upgrading.

When we started the tank, players were going to teams currently better than us.

Maybe. Chicago has always been on the hinge of being competitive, the Jazz are a wreck. I don't know if they'd trade Vassell or Keldon there. I'd say definitely not Harrison unless he said so.

[exstatic]

While I do think the Spurs would be interested in one year of John Collins, I truly don't think they are going to exile one of their guys to the Jazz. Serious about this. Every non-Kawhi player they've moved has gone to a good situation. It's part of their ongoing appeal: we don't fuck you over.

Barnes isn’t one of our guys.

[Mr. Body]

Barnes isn’t one of our guys.

Bruh, Barnes gave up a trade exception (money) to be traded to us. The team ain't gonna fuck him over sending him to the Jazz. Good luck getting vet FAs over to you if you do shit like that.

[scott]

Barnes isn’t one of our guys.

Thanks for waiving your trade kicker and becoming the face of our community outreach program in your first year... hope you like to ski, enjoy Utah!

Definitely sounds like something the Spurs would do...

[exstatic]

If he doesn’t give up the kicker, he’s still in Sacramento. That was mutually beneficial. Not sure of Utah’s cap situation, but if they’ve met the floor, there could be an agreement to waive him to seek a better situation.

[LeBowen]

Until we get someone better, Barnes is our only great shooter.
6% better than anyone else this season. That's fucking embarrassing for the rest of the roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

While I do think the Spurs would be interested in one year of John Collins, I truly don't think they are going to exile one of their guys to the Jazz. Serious about this. Every non-Kawhi player they've moved has gone to a good situation. It's part of their ongoing appeal: we don't fuck you over.

Jazz are coached by ex-Spurs assistant Will Hardy. Perfect situation for Keldon as a tank commander.

[baseline bum]

Jazz are coached by ex-Spurs assistant Will Hardy. Perfect situation for Keldon as a tank commander.

Vassell the tank commander would be so much better since his deal extends through 28-29 while Kelon's off the books in 27-28 when Victor's 2nd contract starts.

[mystargtr34]

Don’t the Spurs own the Jazz SRP in 2026 which is likely #31-35. They’d prob want that back for Collins.

Send them Keldon and Branham as well.

[Chinook]

With all these new contracts, Collins at his salary seems like a massive overpay. Obviously this year's money doesn't really matter, but what kind of deal can he expect going forward?

[spurraider21]

John Collins isn't shit, but I wouldn't trade any great assets for him. Certainly no FRPs.
I don’t think there’s any risk in sending Utah a pick swap in the next year or two if they want to feel like they got something out of it

[LeBowen]

With all these new contracts, Collins at his salary seems like a massive overpay. Obviously this year's money doesn't really matter, but what kind of deal can he expect going forward?

He opted in because he knows noone would've offered even close to 26 million a year.
I think he's worth around 18 to 20 million on his current level.

[spurraider21]

With all these new contracts, Collins at his salary seems like a massive overpay. Obviously this year's money doesn't really matter, but what kind of deal can he expect going forward?
Hes definitely an overpay for this coming season. Part of why he’s not going to cost too much capital to land. Spurs aren’t sniffing the apron anyway and still have full MLE and BAE so the risk is minimal

[onechance87]

With all these new contracts, Collins at his salary seems like a massive overpay. Obviously this year's money doesn't really matter, but what kind of deal can he expect going forward?

probably gonna want something similar to naz reid i would think.

[baseline bum]

I don’t think there’s any risk in sending Utah a pick swap in the next year or two if they want to feel like they got something out of it

There's the risk Wemby misses the season, no thanks on trading swaps for your fourth or fifth starter.

[DAF86]

Bruh, Barnes gave up a trade exception (money) to be traded to us. The team ain't gonna fuck him over sending him to the Jazz. Good luck getting vet FAs over to you if you do shit like that.

If Barnes is traded to Utah, he won't play a single minute there. The tweet says the Jazz are opening up minutes for their younger pieces, Barnes doesn't get into the equation there.

He will be bought out and sign with whomever he wants. Win for everybody.

[spurraider21]

There's the risk Wemby misses the season, no thanks on trading swaps for your fourth or fifth starter.
A wemby-less spurs team with a healthy fox could still conceivably outplay the jazz tbh :lol

[baseline bum]

A wemby-less spurs team with a healthy fox could still conceivably outplay the jazz tbh :lol

Means you can't tank the second half of the season like they did this year to get Harper if Markannen has a bounce back season.

[DPG21920]

If Barnes is traded to Utah, he won't play a single minute there. The tweet says the Jazz are opening up minutes for their younger pieces, Barnes doesn't get into the equation there.

He will be bought out and sign with whomever he wants. Win for everybody.

It could be a third team immediately. Barnes is worth a late first maybe, so send Barnes to the third team and the other team sends something to UTA (pick + player etc)

[rjv]

If Collins becomes a Spur, I give ST less than a year to start hating him.

[spurraider21]

If Collins becomes a Spur, I give ST less than a year to start hating him.
good thing he's on the last year of his deal

[sfernald]

This guy only plays well when it doesn’t matter


No no no thx

[spurs10]

It could be a third team immediately. Barnes is worth a late first maybe, so send Barnes to the third team and the other team sends something to UTA (pick + player etc)Harrison Barnes is our best 3 pt shooter by a large margin. I'd like to see him stay, if possible.

[Mr. Body]

This guy only plays well when it doesn’t matter


No no no thx

But it is a contract year...

[BatManu20]

1939767345171284371

[LeBowen]

I guess Heat have to pay to get rid of Rozier, anyway. Might aswell get a good player in return, their salaries are near-identical.

[BatManu20]

This guy only plays well when it doesn’t matter


No no no thx

He averaged 15/10/1/1/1 on 63% TS% shooting, including 39% from 3 in the 2021 ECSF against Giannis and Milwaukee. He was their 2nd leading scorer behind Trae Young. He was 23 years old then. He's considerably better now at 27, almost 28.

[Mr. Body]

The three teams that exist in the NBA are Miami, Los Angeles, and San Antonio.

[LeBowen]

The three teams that exist in the NBA are Miami, Los Angeles, and San Antonio.

One is trying to get everyone but doesn't want to pay anything, the other one wants to get everyone but doesn't have anything to offer and the third one doesn't actually want anyone.

[exstatic]

If Collins becomes a Spur, I give ST less than a year to start hating him.

A faction of ST hates him now. The Why Waiters.

[Em-City]

Does the Kornet move inmost people's opinions on acquiring Collins?

[SpursFan86]

1940035355991757278

C’mon Spurs.

[Seventyniner]

"Aggressively shopping" implies the asking price is low, and Collins is on an expiring, though large, salary. Trading for him should be a no-brainer for many teams.

Maybe the Jazz are insisting on only getting expiring deals in return, or extra draft capital if the Jazz have to absorb salary, and teams are balking at that?

[TimDunkem]

"Aggressively shopping" implies the asking price is low, and Collins is on an expiring, though large, salary. Trading for him should be a no-brainer for many teams.

Maybe the Jazz are insisting on only getting expiring deals in return, or extra draft capital if the Jazz have to absorb salary, and teams are balking at that?

The Ainge kid is probably taking notes out of dad's playbook and not making any deals unless he's outright fleecing teams. Probably asking for FRPs

[Mnky]

The Ainge kid is probably taking notes out of dad's playbook and not making any deals unless he's outright fleecing teams. Probably asking for FRPs

They aggressively shopped Clarkson before Collins and had to eventually buy him out.

Teams know theyre cleaning house. No need to give in to demands.

[Mr. Body]

They aggressively shopped Clarkson before Collins and had to eventually buy him out.

Teams know theyre cleaning house. No need to give in to demands.

Yeah. Teams might just wait for him.

[spurraider21]

"Aggressively shopping" implies the asking price is low, and Collins is on an expiring, though large, salary. Trading for him should be a no-brainer for many teams.

Maybe the Jazz are insisting on only getting expiring deals in return, or extra draft capital if the Jazz have to absorb salary, and teams are balking at that?
i would imagine with the spurs the hangup would be the jazz insisting on getting HB's expiring

though who knows, the friendship crew might prefer to keep keldon anyway :lol

[scottspurs]

Just wait for him to be bought out. No reason to trade assets. If he is not bought out now he will be by the trade deadline. I’m not make any deals with Ainge. Period

[RC_Drunkford]

Just wait for him to be bought out. No reason to trade assets. If he is not bought out now he will be by the trade deadline. I’m not make any deals with Ainge. Period

he will never be bought out. Plenty of teams want to trade for him and would offer an extension.

[LeBowen]

I got the topic title at the ready, tbh.

Silver Altar of Baptistery of the Dunkin' Deacon John Collins

Get it done, Brian!

[scottspurs]

he will never be bought out. Plenty of teams want to trade for him and would offer an extension.
That’s cool with me! Let those teams trade for him

[scott]

If the price is SRPs we're going to trade for cash anyway, plus Keldon... then it seems like a deal we should do. I'm not even a big Collins stan, but he's a low commitment option at PF. And could still be flipped at the deadline if the mythical "star deal" materializes... in fact, he'd probably be more valuable than Keldon in that regard to as an expiring (on an even larger contract). Just don't extend him if we do trade for him.

[spurraider21]

If the price is SRPs we're going to trade for cash anyway, plus Keldon... then it seems like a deal we should do. I'm not even a big Collins stan, but he's a low commitment option at PF. And could still be flipped at the deadline if the mythical "star deal" materializes... in fact, he'd probably be more valuable than Keldon in that regard to as an expiring (on an even larger contract). Just don't extend him if we do trade for him.
collins is definitely an overpay this year, but we're operating above the cap and wouldnt be approaching the apron anyway. and he winds up as another expiring deal in addition to HB, instead of being committed to another year of keldon

[SpursFan86]

If the price is SRPs we're going to trade for cash anyway, plus Keldon... then it seems like a deal we should do. I'm not even a big Collins stan, but he's a low commitment option at PF. And could still be flipped at the deadline if the mythical "star deal" materializes... in fact, he'd probably be more valuable than Keldon in that regard to as an expiring (on an even larger contract). Just don't extend him if we do trade for him.

Pretty much. It's hard for me to understand how anyone wouldn't be willing to do something like Keldon + Branham + one or two SRPs (don't we have 4 next year?) for Collins. Obviously if Ainge is demanding FRPs then it's a different story.

[spurraider21]

Pretty much. It's hard for me to understand how anyone wouldn't be willing to do something like Keldon + Branham + one or two SRPs (don't we have 4 next year?) for Collins. Obviously if Ainge is demanding FRPs then it's a different story.
i'd comortably give 4 second rounders

[scott]

i'd comortably give 4 second rounders

Holt Jr looks up from behind his phone, where he's texting his YPO buddies about the Summer 2026 Cabo trip he's planning with that SRP cash "the hell you would, bucko"

[callo1]

Andre Drummond exercised his 5 mill contract for the Sixers next year so word is they are trying to move him. Still grabbed almost 8 rebs in 19 minutes per game.

Not saying he is perfect, but maybe we can unload a player and fill Mamu's spot if nothing else is available

[rankingtear]

there zero market for this guy too much money not a modern player. probably wants an extension and starting position.

[cd98]

Spurs may be holding off on trades and waiting to see if a disgruntled NBA star gets put on the trading block. No reason to rush.

[sfernald]

He averaged 15/10/1/1/1 on 63% TS% shooting, including 39% from 3 in the 2021 ECSF against Giannis and Milwaukee. He was their 2nd leading scorer behind Trae Young. He was 23 years old then. He's considerably better now at 27, almost 28.

omg that’s amazing. Still want nothing to do with him.

[Dverde]

omg that’s amazing. Still want nothing to do with him.

Concur.

[BatManu20]

This thread will be fun to bump if/when JC has a great season and Sochan continues to build a fortress with his bricks tbh.

1942226949453103199

[Dverde]

This thread will be fun to bump if/when JC has a great season and Sochan continues to build a fortress with his bricks tbh.

1942226949453103199

He is a great fit for the clippers. Harden spoon feeding him lobs, getting wide open threes when teams double nephew, harden, and Zubac. You can also bump it when another team overpays him again and they want to trade him a year later.

[spurraider21]

He is a great fit for the clippers. Harden spoon feeding him lobs, getting wide open threes when teams double nephew, harden, and Zubac. You can also bump it when another team overpays him again and they want to trade him a year later.
you could have replaced those names with Fox/Castle/Harper and Wemby :cry

[sfernald]

He is a great fit for the clippers. Harden spoon feeding him lobs, getting wide open threes when teams double nephew, harden, and Zubac. You can also bump it when another team overpays him again and they want to trade him a year later.

Now that he’s on a playoff team we get to watch him shrink like a violet. Bet a million bucks clips don’t offer him another contract.

[Mr. Body]

JC was so great getting spoonfed lobs and open threes by Trae that Atlanta couldn't wait to get rid of him.

[scott]

Is there anyone else in the NBA named Collins we can sign?

[exstatic]

JC was so great getting spoonfed lobs and open threes by Trae that Atlanta couldn't wait to get rid of him.

They got rid of him, because he injured his hand and also their ownership is cheap. They also offloaded Huerter and Hunter for not much return.

[BatManu20]

No doubt this thread will be bumped if JC sucks this year too. Or if he underperforms in the Playoffs. Him playing for the Clippers pretty much guarantees he won't advance far in the Playoffs, assuming they make the cut. But still a solid pickup for them imo, especially if they're able to sign Bradley Beal now with Powell off the books.

[Splits]

:cry the dream is over :cry

[SpursBills]

Looks like the entire Western conference is loading up on physicality in an attempt to exploit OKC's relative lack of size

Houston: elite offensive rebounders up an down their lineup
Denver: running it back with Jokic/Gordon, got Val, brought back Bruce Brown
Clippers: Zu/Collins is a monster front line, the Harden/Kawhi/Collins/Zu are all + physicality relative to position

Wonder if everybody is basically focusing less on optimizing shot quality and focusing more on increasing number of possessions / mucking things up to minimize OKC's practicing of fouling constantly

[sfernald]

There is another….

bol bol

[spurraider21]

Adding John Collins to the spurraider21 "should have made a move for him" hall of fame along with Austin Reaves

[scott]

Adding John Collins to the spurraider21 "should have made a move for him" hall of fame along with Austin Reaves

Is the HOF named after Jason Kidd, Corey Maggette, or Jermaine O'Neal?

[spurraider21]

Is the HOF named after Jason Kidd, Corey Maggette, or Jermaine O'Neal?
or Brad Miller tbh :lol

[DAF86]

Wait, why would the Clippers give away Powell? Also, the Heat transformed Kevin Love and Kyle Anderson into a borderline all-star? What is this trade?

[spurraider21]

Wait, why would the Clippers give away Powell? Also, the Heat transformed Kevin Love and Kyle Anderson into a borderline all-star? What is this trade?
i think clippers more or less break even. got a starter at a bigger position of need, and they're one of the teams heavily linked to Beal right now.

but yes Miami made out like bandits and Utah got completely hosed

[DAF86]

i think clippers more or less break even. got a starter at a bigger position of need, and they're one of the teams heavily linked to Beal right now.

but yes Miami made out like bandits and Utah got completely hosed

They got a player, who supossedly had no market, in exchange for a guy that played like a borderline all-star for them last season. Not only that, they had to give up a second round pick on top of that.

You wanna say they transformed a 22 ppg SG into a 19 and 8 PF? Fine, I guess. At least make the Heat be the ones who give up the draft pick. :drunk

[RC_Drunkford]

No doubt this thread will be bumped if JC sucks this year too. Or if he underperforms in the Playoffs. Him playing for the Clippers pretty much guarantees he won't advance far in the Playoffs, assuming they make the cut. But still a solid pickup for them imo, especially if they're able to sign Bradley Beal now with Powell off the books.

that part doesn't make sense. Powell earns 20 million this season, Collins is at 26

[spurraider21]

that part doesn't make sense. Powell earns 20 million this season, Collins is at 26
utah moved Collins making 26 and received Anderson/Love making a combined 13

[scott]

utah moved Collins making 26 and received Anderson/Love making a combined 13

And created a nice TPE for themselves which the can use to acquire... probably more salary dump and picks

[RC_Drunkford]

utah moved Collins making 26 and received Anderson/Love making a combined 13

what does that have to do with anything I said? I commented on the bolded part that the Clippers traded Powell for Collins to open up money for a Beal signing, which obviously can't be the case since Collins makes more money than Powell.

[spurraider21]

what does that have to do with anything I said? I commented on the bolded part that the Clippers traded Powell for Collins to open up money for a Beal signing, which obviously can't be the case since Collins makes more money than Powell.
oh my b. i misread the post. i had read about Utah making a play for Grimes and my mind went there when it comes to cleaning up cap space

Beal is going to be had for pretty cheap given his monster buyout. i think the clippers are a leading spot for him because of the opportunity and role. Harden/Beal/Kawhi/Collins/Zubac with Dunn/Bogi/DJJ/Batum/BroLo off the bench looks nasty

with powell around it made no real sense for the clippers to go after beal, or for him to go to the clippers. especially since powell wants a new deal

[exstatic]

oh my b. i misread the post. i had read about Utah making a play for Grimes and my mind went there when it comes to cleaning up cap space

Beal is going to be had for pretty cheap given his monster buyout. i think the clippers are a leading spot for him because of the opportunity and role. Harden/Beal/Kawhi/Collins/Zubac with Dunn/Bogi/DJJ/Batum/BroLo off the bench looks nasty

with powell around it made no real sense for the clippers to go after beal, or for him to go to the clippers. especially since powell wants a new deal

I think both Beal and Dame ultimately sign for minimum. Their buyout money is offset by whatever they make,so there isn’t any point in trying to grab a bag. That would only benefit Phoenix and Milwaukee being reimbursed for their salaries.

[RC_Drunkford]

oh my b. i misread the post. i had read about Utah making a play for Grimes and my mind went there when it comes to cleaning up cap space

Beal is going to be had for pretty cheap given his monster buyout. i think the clippers are a leading spot for him because of the opportunity and role. Harden/Beal/Kawhi/Collins/Zubac with Dunn/Bogi/DJJ/Batum/BroLo off the bench looks nasty

with powell around it made no real sense for the clippers to go after beal, or for him to go to the clippers. especially since powell wants a new deal

Makes sense for them to trade Powell for Collins if they know Beal is coming. They get a legit starting 4 and have Beal replace Powell's production. That Zubac/Collins frontcourt with Brook Lopez off the bench is gonna be a problem.

[spurraider21]

I think both Beal and Dame ultimately sign for minimum. Their buyout money is offset by whatever they make,so there isn’t any point in trying to grab a bag. That would only benefit Phoenix and Milwaukee being reimbursed for their salaries.
it depends how much they give up in a buyout iirc. its why aydon didnt go for the minimum

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

it depends how much they give up in a buyout iirc. its why aydon didnt go for the minimum

Yeah Ayton gave up more than he got from the Lakers so he ended up a couple of mil short of what he was supposed to make.

Dame obviously didn’t give up money but Beal would literally have to, and a lot, otherwise they can’t stretch him within the allowed 15%. So if he signs for the min or close to it he’d be losing serious money.

[Ice009]

How would the buyout with Beal work? What is the likely buyout and how much would he likely lose?

Didn't realize Ayton took that much of a hit from his buyout. How much did the Lakers pay him?

Also, is there any speculation on where Dame might go?

[quentin_compson]

or Brad Miller tbh :lol

Was there really ever a "There is Brad Miller to the Spurs buzz" time? I really loved him when he was with the Kings, very cool player.

[John B]

Makes sense for them to trade Powell for Collins if they know Beal is coming. They get a legit starting 4 and have Beal replace Powell's production. That Zubac/Collins frontcourt with Brook Lopez off the bench is gonna be a problem.

Nothing to worry, black and gray Kornet is here :lol

[exstatic]

it depends how much they give up in a buyout iirc. its why aydon didnt go for the minimum

Well, Dame was stretched, involuntarily,so he gave up zero. Guess we’ll have to see about Beal.