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xrayzebra
12-08-2005, 11:44 AM
Free Advice for Liberals: Duke It Out Among Yourselves
By Jonah Goldberg

Dec 7, 2005


Liberals have been suffering from conservative envy for several years now. Oh, they don't envy us our evil ways, our penchant for extreme cruelty or the fact that we smell like cabbage. They envy us our toys and success.

The liberal Center for American Progress was founded explicitly to be the left's answer to the conservative Heritage Foundation. The lefty radio network, "Air America," was launched to copy the success of Rush Limbaugh & Co. Today, deep-pocketed liberals are scrambling to copy conservative foundations, even though liberal foundations have always had more money.

Most conservatives I know snicker at all this. It's not that talk radio, think tanks and foundations haven't been essential to the rise of American conservatism in the last five decades. They have been (see my colleague John Miller's excellent new book, "A Gift of Freedom: How the John M. Olin Foundation Changed America," for a window into that effort). But liberals are emphasizing hardware because they don't want to question the validity of their very outdated software.

Look, conservatives would love to switch places with liberals. We'd get the universities, Hollywood, the Rockefeller, Ford, Carnegie and Pew Foundations, the Sierra Club, Greenpeace, The New York Times, National Public Radio, Time, Newsweek, The New Yorker, CBS, including "60 Minutes" and Dan Rather's thousand-fingers massage chair, and so forth. Liberals, meanwhile, would get the Washington Times and Fox News, along with a few conservative foundations. I guess National Review and The New Republic would switch offices, which is fine by me. It'd make my commute easier.

And that sort of makes the point: Not only does the left have better stuff, but even if that weren't the case, the left's problem isn't a lack of mechanisms to "get their message out." Megaphones matter, but not as much as what you say into them.

If liberals really want to emulate conservative successes, I have some advice for them: Get into some big, honking arguments - not with conservatives, but with each other. The history of the conservative movement's successes has been the history of intellectual donnybrooks, between libertarians and traditionalists, hawks and isolationists, so-called neocons and so-called paleocons, less-filling versus tastes great. Liberals would be smart to copy that and stop worrying how to mimic our direct mail strategies.

Liberals have a tendency to mistake political tactics for political principles, and vice versa. Exhibit A is the left's fascination with "unity." Unity is often useful in politics, but it's often a handicap if you haven't figured out what to be unified about. Just as the Socratic method leads to wisdom, big fights not only illuminate big ideas, but they force people to become invested in them. Unfortunately, liberals define diversity by skin color and sex, not by ideas, which makes it difficult to have really good arguments.

Of course there are arguments on the left and there are individual liberals with deep-seated convictions and principles. But most of the arguments are about how to "build a movement" or how to win elections, not about what liberalism is. Even the "Get out of Iraq now!" demands from the base of the Democratic Party aren't grounded in anything like a coherent foreign policy. Ten years ago liberals championed nation-building. Now they call it imperialism because George W. Bush is doing it.

A good illustration of the fundamental difference between left and right can be found in two books edited by Peter Berkowitz for the Hoover Institution, "Varieties Of Conservatism In America" and "Varieties Of Progressivism In America." Each contains thoughtful essays by leading conservatives and liberals. But while the conservatives defend different ideological philosophical schools - neoconservatism, traditionalism, etc. - the liberals argue almost exclusively about which tactics Democrats should embrace to win the White House.

Bill Clinton was the only Democratic president elected to two terms since Franklin Roosevelt. One of the reasons for his success was that he was willing to pick fights with his own party. One can argue about the sincerity of some of those fights. But we remember the Sista Souljah moment for a reason.

Right now Washington is marveling at how the Democratic Party has simultaneously made the Iraq war the central and defining political issue of the decade while at the same time having no clue what it is they want to do about it. Worse, it's looking increasingly like the Democrats' position on the war is based largely on the polls, not principles.

One of the most important events in the rise of conservatism was the 1978 "Firing Line" debate over U.S. control of the Panama Canal. William F. Buckley favored giving it up. The governor of California, Ronald Reagan, favored keeping it. Reagan's side lost the argument, in Congress at least, but conservatives once again demonstrated our willingness to duke it out on such issues. And Reagan's career hardly suffered. If liberals were smart, they'd do something similar. Have Joe Lieberman debate Nancy Pelosi, or John Murtha. Make liberals get past their passion and explore what they think. My guess is it would be good for liberalism in the long run - and even better for America.

================================================== =======

You can thank me later.

JoeChalupa
12-08-2005, 12:04 PM
:sleep

boutons
12-08-2005, 12:40 PM
did XZ say something?
I've had this dumbass cretin IGNOREd for months.

Nbadan
12-08-2005, 01:24 PM
If liberals were smart, they'd do something similar. Have Joe Lieberman debate Nancy Pelosi, or John Murtha. Make liberals get past their passion and explore what they think. My guess is it would be good for liberalism in the long run - and even better for America.

Why give Liebermann an audience at all? Like moderates in the Republican Party, war-hawks like Liebermann have very little weight in the Democratic Party. Hell, even Hillary has already switched over to the dark-side.

Oh, Gee!!
12-08-2005, 02:26 PM
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/ronald-reagan/reagan_antlers_shrunk.jpg


http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/ronald-reagan/reagan_half_bald.gif

Mr. Peabody
12-08-2005, 02:43 PM
^^^ Crazy old man. :lol :lol

xrayzebra
12-08-2005, 05:47 PM
^^^Yeah, who defeated the dimm-o-craps twice and the Soviet Union to boot.
I will take one his type any day over anything the dimm-o-craps can hope to
produce. But nice try to put down a great American who had a terrible disease in
his later years. You are such a nice person.

Oh, Gee!!
12-08-2005, 06:01 PM
^^^Yeah, who defeated the dimm-o-craps twice and the Soviet Union to boot.
I will take one his type any day over anything the dimm-o-craps can hope to
produce. But nice try to put down a great American who had a terrible disease in
his later years. You are such a nice person.


You're this close to getting your ass kicked, xrayzebra

http://debbyestratigacos.mu.nu/archives/Ronald%20Reagan.jpg

Mr. Peabody
12-08-2005, 07:03 PM
But nice try to put down a great American who had a terrible disease in his later years. You are such a nice person.

So because he had a terrible disease after he was president, we shouldn't say anything negative about the Gipper? Who told you that, Limbaugh or Hannity?

Nbadan
12-09-2005, 03:58 AM
Sorry, but Reagan is the most over-rated President ever. As if Russia wouldn't have been defeated with anyone else as US President? In Lebanon, when terrorist killed 200+ of our Marines, Reagan cut and run. Gadhafi, Moammar? Lybia? Pan Am? Reagan got him, right? Wrong. Worst of all, it was Reagan who authorized the sale of biological/chemical pathogens to Iraq/Saddam Hussein, who then turned around and likely used them on the Kurds and Iranians. Of course he had them, we had the receipts.

boutons
12-09-2005, 06:10 AM
The critical factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union was nothing but hard US $$$.

After the Iranian revolution oilshock of the early 80s, economies retracted and were forced to go through another round of engineering oil out of their economies.
Oil emand oil went way down, the $$ price oil went way down.

Russia main source of hard $$$ to fuel its economy and military/science was was selling Russian oil. When that revenue went down, Russia realized its facade of strength (unknown by the CIA/NSA who totally missed the collapse of Russia) crumbled in the face of challenges from Poland's Solidarity, and finally the Berlin Wall. Russia simply didn't have the $$$ to respond nor to maintain the facade. Russia collapse from internal weaknesses and hard curency bankruptcy.

Reagan's bullshit "tear this wall down" was pure Hollywood, and was just as fictional as a cause of Russia's collapse.

Reagan's Stars Wars was and still is totally unworkable Hollywood bullshit.

Anybody who has confronted Alzheimer's face to face knows it doesn't appear overnight, but over years, so they know Reagan already had diminished capacities during his presidency, but the Repubs like their presidents with diminished capacities and malleable, like the current Repub bullshit-for-brains president.