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Nbadan
12-09-2005, 05:12 AM
Point:

Stanley Tookie Williams – America’s ‘strange fruit’
by Donna J. Warren


Kanye West said, “George Bush doesn’t care about Black people.” Neither does America.

Why do they want Stanley Tookie Williams executed? Is it because he was convicted of murdering four people?

Intrinsically racist White Americans lynch “strange fruit” like Stan Williams in American courts of law all the time. In these kangaroo courts, Black people, innocent or guilty, are convicted and sentenced to death.

Tookie, Black and from the ghetto, was predictably found guilty by a jury that was not “of his peers” – one Latino, one Filipino and 10 whites. This mostly white jury is of the same breed of people who, with local, state and federal governments, instituted Jim Crow laws denying freedom to newly emancipated Blacks.

If American courts ever attempt to be fair, no Black person would ever stand trial in front of 12 non-Black Americans. White serial killers are not sentenced to death. Capital punishment is a Black penalty.

Was Tookie’s jury incensed that the victims were Albert Owens, Yen-I Yang, Tsai-Shai Yang and Ye Chen Lin? Maybe Albert Owens, but America has no problem with the deaths of Asians. If so, America would show remorse over killing 2,000,000 Vietnamese in the Vietnam War and dropping the A-bomb on hundreds of thousands at Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

CNN recently took a poll – unscientific but a poll all the same. Sixty-five percent of the respondents said Tookie must die. Not surprising!

Bloodthirsty America sanctions murder when people of color are involved – look at the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead with no remorse by America. Killing people of color has never been a problem for America. It’s how America became America.

Murdering Tookie and ensuring ghetto Blacks continue to fall into the pit of gang life is America. America cannot let Tookie live, for to do so means America cares about the young people who are driven into the gang life, and we know by empirical evidence that that is not so.

Empirical evidence is everywhere, festering in the form of slums and tenements unfit for human habitation, schools – rat infested and infused with dirty toilets, nonexistent health care. Katrina, where Black babies floated in putrid waters, and thousands of people are still unaccounted for!

America needs the illusion of gang life to maintain the whole shebang of the prison industrial complex – prisons, judges, police, lawyers, counselors etc. It’s big business, and it meets America’s goals to deny democracy and freedom to former slaves, the indigenous and poor whites.

They say Tookie’s not remorseful for the killings. Tookie says he’s innocent. What kind of fool is remorseful for killings he didn’t do?

San Quentin spokesman Vernell Crittendon wants Williams to inform on his old friends. Informing on gang members would “rip my dignity out of my chest,” Tookie says. I agree. Snitching is not only “undignified” but anathema to the truth. Only a liar admits remorse for something he did not do; only unprincipled cowards like Crittendon snitch.

Crittendon says he suspects Williams is orchestrating gangland crimes from his cell. But there’s no proof. The prison industry will say anything to execute a Black man.

Stanley Tookie Williams, nominated repeatedly for the Nobel Peace Prize and the subject of the movie “Redemption,” has an amazing intellect and a voice so strong that he has done what governments fail to do: make a difference in the lives of children left to squalor in the ghettos of America – without healthcare, a decent education or even parents to raise them.

America, vicious, bloodthirsty and racist, keeps the status quo of prisons, punishment and inhumanity on the backs of those she fails the most. Schwarzenegger could easily grant clemency for Tookie. The American courts could easily grant a new trial – one that isn’t judged by 10 whites, one Latino and one Filipino.

In August 2004, a committee of prison officials commended Tookie for his positive steps in the past 10 years. Yet “corrections” made on their website – mysteriously removed one day later – alleged that Tookie “firmly entrenched himself as the leader of the Crips at San Quentin, wielding power as his lieutenants and other minions were dispatched to carry out his objectives.” Daniel Vasquez, warden at San Quentin from 1983 to 1993, said those remarks were “like corrections trying to drum up business for death row.”

We pretend to warn children about the dangers of gang life, but if Tookie is put to death, our pretensions will be exposed for the lies they really are. The emperor is wearing no clothes.

If Tookie dies, we lose a voice who can speak to our children in ways we never could. If Tookie dies, our children lose!

San Francisco Bay (http://www.sfbayview.com/120705/strangefruit120705.shtml)

Counter Point:

Albert Owens ('allegedly' murdered by Tookie Williams) step-mother is for the execution.


Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,

My name is Lora Owens. I am the stepmother of Albert Lewis Owens. My husband, Albert's father, has died so I also speak for him since we discussed this letter frequently over the years. I am writing you concerning clemency for Stanley "Tookie" Williams who murdered Albert in 1979 by shooting him twice in the back. Within seconds, though Albert pleaded for his life, Williams chose to become the judge, jury and executioner of Albert, then laughed as he lay dying. In 1981, Williams was tried, convicted and sentenced to death for the murders he committed in cold blood. Now the many, many years of appeals have also been denied and the facts remain steadfast and the verdict remains firm.

Now that the appeals have been denied, Williams has decided on a new tactic. A female friend has entered his life who happens to be a journalist who wants to write children's books against gangs. Since the defense of brain damage in his appeals did not gain him anything, Williams decided to become an articulate author denouncing gang activity. He doesn't assist the authorities in stopping gang activity by "debriefing" however, but concentrates on teaching primary school age children the "walk and talk" of gang life. This he claims will deter them from joining a gang.

The Nobel Peace Prize nominations, from the first to the last, have been made by activists who see an opportunity to further their personal cause.The first was quoted to have made the nomination to "raise the awareness of the death penalty to a higher degree". Totally nothing to do with Williams and whether he deserved the recognition but for a political agenda.

This has been true of each nomination since.

They have quoted that it doesn't matter what he has done in the past but what he is doing now.

I contend that he is not doing anything now to warrant any type of award and it definitely does matter what he has done in the past. It would matter to anyone whose child is dying in a pool of blood because Williams had the loaded gun and chose to shoot- not in self defense-but shot innocent, unarmed victims simply bcause he could.

We must care what happens to each other whether it affects us personally or not lest we become as callous, insensitive and cold hearted as Williams.

The citizens award from the President of the United States was bought for a few dollars but because he received it...people think the President is behind his clemency and think his "works" are worthwhile as the Williams legal counsel asserts.

The movie "Redemption" is an atrosity. To be redeemed one must accept responsibility for the deeds and not claim to be redeemed to get out of the punishment set forth. Williams has declared his own style of redemption for his own gain.

It's sad that many people have seen the movie and think Williams has changed. That it was mistakes in his youth that put him on death row. Not the murders he was convicted of but the mistakes he eludes to in the movie. I've been berated because the Owens family is shown to throw blood on Barbara Becnel and people are led to believe that has actually happened.

They have forgotten that we are the victims not the criminal.

The years since 1979 have been very difficult for the Owens family. Albert's daughters did not have a good childhood because their father was not there to love and protect them from harm. The health of Albert's father steadily declined and he couldn't get any peace or closure over Albert's murder because justice had not been completed. We did think with Williams being confined to death row would do some good but not when he has his own web page, media directors and movies coming out. It continually kept the pain and anguish fresh and each time something new would appear in the press...it was as though the years had not passed and the pain was the same gutwrenching as in the beginning.I sincerely implore you not to give clemency to Stanley "Tookie" Williams. He is not a model citizen for the blacks to pattern after. He is a murderer and has caused the Owens family anguish for the last 26 years.

His just punishment, his execution, could provide us some closure and peace. Finally, Albert could rest knowing that justice had finally been completed.

With Kind Regards,
Lora Owens

ThugJohnson
12-09-2005, 05:27 AM
hopefully this story gets out and a few lawyers step upto the plate to make sure all the facts are on the table.

i'm all about the troof. if there is reasonable doubt? set tookie free.

if not? laters.

Hook Dem
12-09-2005, 10:26 AM
He didn't just killone! , He killed four!!!!

xrayzebra
12-09-2005, 10:38 AM
He didn't just killone! , He killed four!!!!

Give him the needle. He is nothing but a scam artist who doesn't want to
suffer the consequences of his actions. Typical Left wing nuts and Libs
doing their thing. Save the poor man, screw the victims, they more than
likely deserved to die. They had money he wanted.

FromWayDowntown
12-09-2005, 10:47 AM
He didn't just killone! , He killed four!!!!

He was convicted of killing four people. It doesn't mean that he did it -- it does mean that a jury of 12 people believed that he did it. The news is full of stories these days about people who have been convicted of crimes, only to have their inncence established later. Juries are generally fair and diligent, but they aren't always given the whole story and they're often asked to make credibility choices that don't have any relationship to what really happened at the scene of a crime. To think that a jury's verdict is infalliable in every case -- to think that it conclusively establishes objective guilt -- is an assumption without support.

Spurminator
12-09-2005, 10:47 AM
Why do they want Stanley Tookie Williams executed? Is it because he was convicted of murdering four people?

I'm against the death penalty, but I think that writer is overanalyzing. The simple answer is Yes, that is why they want Williams executed.

I doubt it would be any different if he were white.

Oh, Gee!!
12-09-2005, 10:50 AM
I'm against the death penalty, but I think that writer is overanalyzing. The simple answer is Yes, that is why they want Williams executed.

I doubt it would be any different if he were white.


true

xrayzebra
12-09-2005, 10:50 AM
He was convicted of killing four people. It doesn't mean that he did it -- it does mean that a jury of 12 people believed that he did it. The news is full of stories these days about people who have been convicted of crimes, only to have their inncence established later. Juries are generally fair and diligent, but they aren't always given the whole story and they're often asked to make credibility choices that don't have any relationship to what really happened at the scene of a crime. To think that a jury's verdict is infalliable in every case -- to think that it conclusively establishes objective guilt -- is an assumption without support.

And your point being, we don't ever convict anyone of any crime because
they MAY be innocent. People are people and mistakes are made by people.
It is not an infallible system, but it is about as fair as you can get anything
that works. Or do we just put a person in prison for the rest of his life
and hope we didn't make a mistake, but if we did, at least we didn't kill him.

Crookshanks
12-09-2005, 11:13 AM
He's had more than 20 years of appeals! This case has been looked at and analyzed by many, many lawyers and the verdict has never been changed. He has had more than his share of due process and now it's time to face the consequences of his actions. Time to meet your maker, Tookie!!

Bandit2981
12-09-2005, 12:10 PM
Sorry buddy, you got a date with the needle in my book! If he really is a changed man and has found God, then he shouldn't fear death

Oh, Gee!!
12-09-2005, 12:14 PM
He's had more than 20 years of appeals! This case has been looked at and analyzed by many, many lawyers and the verdict has never been changed. He has had more than his share of due process and now it's time to face the consequences of his actions. Time to meet your maker, Tookie!!


I took the liberty of giving these guys your address. I bet you meet your maker before Tookie does.

http://www.hiphop.de/de/img/crips_posse200.jpg

2centsworth
12-09-2005, 12:39 PM
Bye Bye Tookie your thieving murderer. If you were remorseful I would have more sympathy. BTW, I thought you were going to kill all 12 jurors?

FromWayDowntown
12-09-2005, 12:42 PM
And your point being, we don't ever convict anyone of any crime because
they MAY be innocent. People are people and mistakes are made by people.
It is not an infallible system, but it is about as fair as you can get anything
that works. Or do we just put a person in prison for the rest of his life
and hope we didn't make a mistake, but if we did, at least we didn't kill him.

That's not my point at all, but thanks for attempting to generalize. My point has nothing whatsoever to do with Tookie Williams individually. I just think it's difficult to conclude that someone absolutely committed a crime unless you have a completely voluntary confession, eyewitness testimony, or scientific proof. My quarrel was with the unequivocal statement that Tookie Williams killed four people. Tookie Williams was convicted of killing four people, but that's a far cry from an unassailable conclusion that he actually killed four people.

And, yes, I do think that we put someone in prison for life and hope that we didn't make a mistake, but have the solace of knowing that if we did, at least we didn't kill him. I won't apologize for believing that it's bad public policy to execute people who may have been wrongly convicted.

JoeChalupa
12-09-2005, 12:46 PM
He's toast.

Mr. Peabody
12-09-2005, 12:53 PM
I think the Govenator may pardon him. There is a lot of public interest in this case and Arnold may give in to the pressure.

JoeChalupa
12-09-2005, 12:57 PM
"Get out!!...Get out of the execution chamber!!!

Murphy
12-09-2005, 01:08 PM
not only did Tookie williams kill 4 people, he co-founded one of the most deadly, and corrupt domestic terrorist organizations in the United States

Oh, Gee!!
12-09-2005, 01:12 PM
Pour some of your 40 oz for Tookie

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040408/040408_redemption_vmed_12p.widec.jpg

FromWayDowntown
12-09-2005, 01:16 PM
I think the Govenator may pardon him. There is a lot of public interest in this case and Arnold may give in to the pressure.

He wouldn't be pardoned. He'd be granted clemency, which would commute his sentence from death to life in prison.

It's not as if Tookie and those who support him are asking that he be set free.

JoeChalupa
12-09-2005, 01:26 PM
Redemption was a great movie.

2centsworth
12-09-2005, 01:51 PM
He wouldn't be pardoned. He'd be granted clemency, which would commute his sentence from death to life in prison.

It's not as if Tookie and those who support him are asking that he be set free.
give a finger and they will take your arm. As soon as the victims can be brought back to life I'll start to feel sorry Tookie. Punishment is a bitch.

Crookshanks
12-09-2005, 02:14 PM
Besides the 4 people he murdered - too bad he can't be held accountable for all the thousands killed by the gang wars involving the Crips!

BTW - Tookie was one scary looking dude! I would've been frightened to death if I'd just seen him walking down a dark street!

Oh, Gee!!
12-09-2005, 02:51 PM
racist

Mr. Peabody
12-09-2005, 02:51 PM
From what I read, the prosecutor in the case removed all the Blacks from the jury. This same prosecutor was later admonished by the California Supreme Court.

Oh, Gee!!
12-09-2005, 02:54 PM
doesn't sound like a jury of his peers

Mr. Peabody
12-09-2005, 02:58 PM
doesn't sound like a jury of his peers

Do you think the all non-Black jury would by intimidated by Tookie's appearance?

http://img.iskon.hr/kl/2005/03/25/0002003v.jpg

Oh, Gee!!
12-09-2005, 02:59 PM
I'd rather be judged by 12 than hated by 6

Mr. Peabody
12-09-2005, 03:04 PM
In the words of Aristotle - I don't agree with the State of California's opinion that Tookie deserves to die, but I will defend to my death their right to express it.

Crookshanks
12-09-2005, 04:28 PM
I know many of you don't like Sean Hannity, but if you go to www.hannity.com, you can read the actual documents from the LA District Attorney regarding this case.

There was one black juror on the panel, and he voted guilty and he voted for the death penalty. This is on page 43 of the above-referenced document.

It's quite interesting reading - it actually has parts of the critical testimony and pictures of some of the evidence.

Nbadan
12-09-2005, 06:22 PM
Commentary: And Then There Was Tookie
By MARC SAPIR


A small but vocal minority twists logic into a pretzel in its clamor for the death of Tookie Williams on Dec. 12. In contrast, the opposition to the execution stands upon a hierarchy of values and logic that digs deep into the positive side of America and repudiates the murderous side of our history. At the abolitionist base are folks, many of them religious, who believe that taking life, except in self-defense, is egregiously abhorrent. Because this view underpins the declared moral principles of civilization, when a cop kills someone who turns out to not have a weapon, the police plea is often that the officer thought the suspect was armed. That becomes the only acceptable public justification.

Beyond religious values opposing the death penalty, stand those who believe that killing by the State can only create or worsen a culture of violence, for the act of execution suggests that murder in circumstances other than self-defense can have a clear and useful social purpose. Which godlike figures get to determine those approved circumstances? Of course, it’s the politicians whom the public largely despises and mistrusts. Go figure. Included among death penalty opponents are people who recognize, as Michael Moore pointed out in Bowling for Columbine, that the murder rate in the U.S. is 10-200 times that in the many nations that have outlawed the death penalty. What? Executions preventing murder? The facts don’t jibe.

Up in the third tier of the opposition stand folks like Democratic Governor Warner of Virginia and former Republican Governor Ryan of Illinois...

Currently at the pinnacle of this pyramid is the Tookie Williams story....

In order to twist the retributive justice theme into some logical framework one writer argued that Tookie has been faking his transformation. Try to write a book and see what kind of effort that takes. It isn’t hard for me to appreciate the social value of a man who has published 9 books read by thousands of young people, hundreds of whom, as a result, then shunned gangs and violence. The movement to end the gang violence throughout California owes much to Tookie Williams. Folks who would negate that fact and not want him to be around to continue to help us reduce violence among youth pretend that the world divides easily into us—the God-fearing saved—and them—the condemned, like Tookie. But that thinking, often based upon puritanical teachings, doesn’t fit with their Bible either. In the origin myth God could have killed Satan, but whomever wrote the story knew that without having Satan around to define evil there would be no way to contrast what is righteous. Satan was cast down to Hell and Earth (In the current storyline San Quentin is a good stand in for Hell).

Without Tookie, the gang war-lord responsible for much violence and conflict, there is no Tookie whose reconciliation theme proves to youth that we are all capable of being positive socially useful beings. It doesn’t really matter if Tookie Williams has been “reformed” in some abstract world of the self-righteous. His work stands for itself, and for all of us. Arnold: Killing Stan Williams would be, like invading Iraq, another act of collective self destruction for our nation and culture. Collectively we get what we work for, so we’d better save this man’s life if we intend to end gang violence.


~ Marc Sapir is an East Bay physician, writer and co-convenor of the April, 2005 UC Berkeley Teach-In on Torture. ~

Berkeley Daily (http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/article.cfm?issue=12-09-05&storyID=22930)

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 03:36 AM
I vote for a 100 year sentence in a federal pound him in the ass prison. :lol

No parole.

SA210
12-10-2005, 04:29 AM
^^^ so Jesus-like

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 04:36 AM
and who the fuck are you? oh wait, i've owned your ass on this before...don't tempt me 210, i don't give a fuck who's soup kitchen you worked in today, you ain't shit. just like i ain't shit. get it? got it? good. you get a cookie now. :tu :lol

SA210
12-10-2005, 04:41 AM
u didn't own anything. tell yourself what u need to. You very hypocritical, that's what i meant and i still do.

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 04:47 AM
u didn't own anything. tell yourself what u need to. You very hypocritical, that's what i meant and i still do.


sure i do. your my bitch. i claim you. :lol

and yeah i'm a hypocrite. so is the rest of fucking humanity. :lol

sue me. :tu

SA210
12-10-2005, 04:49 AM
I'm sure your creator is very happy with how u speak when using his name. :rolleyes

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 04:51 AM
I'm sure your creator is very happy with how u speak when using his name. :rolleyes

i'm sure he's happy that you think your shit doesn't stink. :tu



" :rolleyes "

SA210
12-10-2005, 04:56 AM
That means nothing Zak. I'm a sinner just like everyone else. But it's really bad to claim the things u claim about God, but yet use the "we are all sinners and not perfect" excuse, to use his name in vain.

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 04:57 AM
That means nothing Zak. I'm a sinner just like everyone else. But it's really bad to claim the things u claim about God, but yet use the "we are all sinners and not perfect" excuse, to use his name in vain.


are you my judge?

SA210
12-10-2005, 04:59 AM
No, but Your judge knows what u r doing.

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 05:00 AM
well then with issues regarding MY FAITH, i guess you should let HIM deal with it. :tu

SA210
12-10-2005, 05:01 AM
another scapegoat

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 05:02 AM
:lol

you got me. :tu

SA210
12-10-2005, 05:04 AM
exactly

gtownspur
12-10-2005, 05:10 AM
BigZak, don't stoop to her level now.:lol

stay strong.

I too have hate, pride, and take shits.

SA210
12-10-2005, 05:12 AM
What about about your level Gtown? You act like very low class trash with no credibility.

bigzak25
12-10-2005, 05:13 AM
sa210 is very smart. not too wise, but very smart. :tu :lol :p

Obstructed_View
12-10-2005, 07:44 AM
Kill Tookie.