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Mr. Peabody
12-13-2005, 03:15 PM
I agree with her. I haven't noticed much of a difference in the way the holiday is being celebrated, but I also haven't been watching Fox News, so I probably don't have all of the necessary information.

What 'War on Christmas'?
By Ruth Marcus
Saturday, December 10, 2005; A21

I've been hearing about this "War on Christmas," so I headed to the Heritage Foundation the other day for a briefing from one of the defending army's generals: Fox News anchor John Gibson, author of "The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought." Gibson -- and Bill O'Reilly, his comrade in the Fox-hole -- see this as a two-front war: Assaulting Christmas from the government end, they say, are pusillanimous school principals, politically corrected city managers and their ilk, bullied by the ACLU types into extirpating any trace of Christmas from the public square. Battering the holiday from the private sector are infidel retailers such as Target and Wal-Mart, which balk at using the C-word in their advertising in favor of such secularist slogans as "Happy Holidays."

The assault, Gibson told the Heritage crowd, has reached a "shocking level this year."

After the lecture, I wandered over to Union Station to check out a retail battlefield. Inside and out, the station was festooned with giant You Know What wreaths. A huge You Know What tree, with presents wrapped in red and green underneath, stood in the main hall, near a placard announcing "Norwegian Christmas at Union Station." A high-tech player piano was playing "Go Tell It on the Mountain," proclaiming the birth of You Know Who; the next selection was You Know Who Else Is Coming to Town. The most generic element was a small sign reading "Happy Holidays," but even then the words were bracketed by reindeer -- and let's just say, they weren't eating latkes. It was beginning to look a lot like You Know What.

If the anti-Christmas forces are winning, then the war in Iraq is nothing short of total victory.

It may seem strange -- even foolhardy -- for a nice Jewish girl to be writing about Christmas. So let me say: I'm a huge fan, always have been, in a kind of nose-pressed-against-the-glass sort of way. When I was growing up in the New Jersey suburbs, my family used to pile into the car every Christmas and drive around looking at the lights, with my mother and I engaging in earnest discussion of what color scheme we'd choose. If I were Christian, I suspect, I'd be the sort of over-the-top type who buys ornaments year-round and has a drawer full of Christmas sweaters, the kind featuring pompoms as tree ornaments.

This is the time of year, though, when those of us who aren't Christian, or who don't celebrate Christmas, most feel our minority status. I've experienced this especially acutely since my children started to look longingly at shopping mall Santas (Santa's a nice guy, honey, but he's not for us) and ask why there are so few menorahs or dreidels among the reindeer and Christmas trees. (How to break this gently? Their team has a lot more players.)

I'm not one who would argue that we ought to Grinch our way out of this discomfort by aggressively de-Christmafying. And to the extent that the war-on-Christmas crowd is simply reacting to knee-jerk political correctness, I'm with them. It's idiotic to call the Capitol conifer a Holiday Tree -- as it has been for the past several years, until it was re-, um, christened this year. If, as Gibson reports, the Plano, Tex., schools really have an edict banning red-and-green decorations (was it either color or just the combination?) -- well, you don't have to be Christian to find this more than a little silly.

But there is an ugly, bullying aspect to this dispute, in which the pro-Christmas forces are not only asking, reasonably, that their religion be treated with equal status and respect but in which they are attacking legitimate efforts at inclusivity. It's this sense of aggrieved victimhood that confuses me: What, exactly, is so threatening about calling the school holiday a winter break rather than Christmas vacation?

The latest alleged perfidy is the failure of the White House Christmas card to mention Christmas, instead expressing "best wishes for a holiday season of hope and happiness" and featuring a verse from Psalms. William A. Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, calls this evidence that the administration has "capitulated to the worst elements in our culture." I call it a recognition, especially welcome at a time of sectarian violence, that not all the 1.4 million folks on the Christmas list are Christian.

This has reached its most imposition-of-Sharia-law-like level of intolerance in the campaign to cow stores into saying Christmas. O'Reilly, escalating his "Christmas Under Siege" campaign, has posted a list of naughty and nice retailers. The American Family Association goes further, calling for a boycott of stores -- it's targeted Target -- that fail to use the word Christmas in their advertising or in-store promotions. "Target doesn't want to offend a small minority who oppose Christmas," says AFA's chairman, Donald Wildmon. "But they don't mind offending Christians who celebrate the birth of Christ."

Really? I've just gone on the Target Web site and plugged Christmas into my product search. "We found 39,197 match(es) for 'Christmas' at Target," it reported. How offensive is that?

[email protected]

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Oh, Gee!!
12-13-2005, 03:38 PM
Ixnay ethay Istmaschray alktay

RobinsontoDuncan
12-13-2005, 04:17 PM
Fundies are ridiculous, this is the most frivilous bull shit you all have pulled in a long time. War on christmas? are you kidding me?

smeagol
12-13-2005, 04:20 PM
Fundies are ridiculous, this is the most frivilous bull shit you all have pulled in a long time. War on christmas? are you kidding me?
You are partially right.

But what is also ridiculous is that Christmas Trees are now called Holiday Trees.

Stupid.

RobinsontoDuncan
12-13-2005, 04:22 PM
granted, but it still seems a bit much to have a far reaching movement to "re-christen" the christmas tree dont you think?

Medvedenko
12-13-2005, 04:22 PM
Watch the "The Colbert Report"....nightly they have a segment on this subject. Very funny indeed.

MaNuMaNiAc
12-13-2005, 04:26 PM
Ixnay ethay Istmaschray alktay
:lmao

Extra Stout
12-13-2005, 05:19 PM
You are partially right.

But whay is also ridiculous is that Christmas Trees are now called Holiday Trees.

Stupid.If they originally had been called "Christmas Trees," wouldn't the song go "O Weinachtsbaum" ?

exstatic
12-13-2005, 07:37 PM
Actually, up until the authoring of The Night Before Christmas (originally entitled A visit from St. Nick) by Clement Clarke Moore, Christmas wasn't a family celebration at all, but rather a drunken earlier version of New Year's Eve in the US.

mookie2001
12-13-2005, 07:41 PM
the thing thats funny about the war on christmas is it happens EVERY year
at christmas time

Ocotillo
12-13-2005, 08:51 PM
Is the phrase "Seasons Greetings" verboten by the guardians of Christmas over at Fox?

ChumpDumper
12-13-2005, 08:52 PM
Just another fundraising ploy.

SA210
12-13-2005, 09:44 PM
i celebrate festivus!
I loved that episode :lol

Ms. Kaleidescope
12-14-2005, 01:27 AM
Seriously, calling this time of year the "Winter Holiday" isn't going to hurt anybody. Both sides are retarded though... I mean, c'mon, holiday conifer? Please. This has gone too far on both sides. Fundies should suck it up and back off. They'll always be a member of the enormous majority in this country... at least for a long time. They are not being threatened and their power is secure, unfortunately. Also, extreme political correctness pushers need to lose the holiday conifer idea. It's lame. Can't we establish a reasonable middle?

gtownspur
12-14-2005, 01:32 AM
I think the Heritage Foundation has legitimate beef with this renaming of the Christmas holidays. It is the birth of Christ, it's his celebration of peace to the world. Why don't we rename Rammadan as National Bulimic Month, cuz that would be disgraceful to those who practice Islam. You want to celebrate Christmas, don't rob its meaning or try to rob it's significance.

smeagol
12-14-2005, 06:05 AM
Christmas Season should be called Christmas Season, because that's what it is. Fuck all the PC people that want to change its name simply because they think by changing its name they are not ofending other religions. Bunch of morons.

jochhejaam
12-14-2005, 07:42 AM
Assaults on Christianity (this is minor and symptomatic of spiritual warfare that makes this pale by comparison) are nothing new, they've been going on since the beginning of time.

If you're on the outside looking in at Christianity you wouldn't understand the following but many are on the inside and have a true understanding of what's going on.

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." (Eph.)

JoeChalupa
12-14-2005, 08:16 AM
Well I don't know what many are talking about.

I went to my daughter's Holiday Choir show last night and to my horrah I saw "Merry Christmas", "Happy Kwanza" and "Happy Hannukah" in huge banners around the auditorium. I was totally offended and almost walked out. :rolleyes

They sang some great tunes and yes, even some traditional Christmas songs such as Silent Night, Joy to The World and other songs that reference the birth of Jesus. Nobody complained.....yet.....and many sang along with the kids.

No PC crap going on. So I think some just need to get a life.

Extra Stout
12-14-2005, 08:45 AM
I think the point is that while there are some people who just see Christmas, Hanukah, and New Year's all bundled together and call it the "holiday season," and while there are some people just trying to be "inclusive," there also are some people genuinely hostile to Christianity whose agenda is to impede its practice.

The trick is learning to tell the difference.

SA210
12-14-2005, 09:43 AM
Jesus was born Dec. 25?

Mr. Peabody
12-14-2005, 10:16 AM
Jesus was born Dec. 25?

Yeah, it sucks for him because he only gets one gift and it's both for his birthday and for christmas.

SA210
12-14-2005, 10:22 AM
Some Historians say Jesus was actually born around September or October.

Mr. Peabody
12-14-2005, 10:30 AM
Some Historians say Jesus was actually born around September or October.

Well, the argument would be that whether he was born on Dec. 25th or not is essentially irrelevant. We have decided to celebrate his birth on this day and this celebration should not go unrecognized during this time of year.

SA210
12-14-2005, 10:48 AM
Well, then couldn't it be argued that Christmas, when originally started had nothing to do with Christ and was a pagan tradition?

smeagol
12-14-2005, 11:33 AM
Well, then couldn't it be argued that Christmas, when originally started had nothing to do with Christ and was a pagan tradition?
Sure, the Early Fathers of the Church decided to set the 12/25 date as the birth of Christ following pagan traditions. It has to be that way since there are now historians who have pinned the date as September or October. :rolleyes

SA210
12-14-2005, 11:42 AM
They set Dec 25 as the day to celebrate. But was also formerly a pagan tradition before that, pagan roots, no?

smeagol
12-14-2005, 11:49 AM
They set Dec 25 as the day to celebrate. But was also formerly a pagan tradition before that, pagan roots, no?
Don't really know. It's close to a Jewish Holiday too.

Extra Stout
12-14-2005, 12:04 PM
Some Historians say Jesus was actually born around September or October.
It's been calculated two ways. One uses the Hebrew calendar and priestly order from the Old Testament and calculates forward to determine when Zacharias served in the temple immediately before Elizabeth became pregnant. This method gives a Sept-Oct birth date.

The other method uses the historical knowledge of which priests were serving in the Temple when it was destroyed in A.D. 70 and counts backwards. That method gives a Dec-Jan birthdate.


Well, then couldn't it be argued that Christmas, when originally started had nothing to do with Christ and was a pagan tradition?For certain parts of it, sure. For example, the Christmas tree, holly, mistletoe, garland, snowflakes, red and green.

The ornaments on the tree are a vestige of the citrus fruits and nuts Germans used to hang on it. The citrus often came from Spain, and were meant to symbolize the knowledge that longer and warmer days would return.

The birth of Christ itself is not a pagan tradition. The concept and iconography of Madonna and Child is passed down from pagan faiths.


Don't really know. It's close to a Jewish Holiday too.
Hanukkah is a minor Jewish celebration that has been hyped way out of proportion in order to compete with Christmas. Their big holidays are the Day of Atonement (Rosh Hashannah), New Year (Yom Kippur), and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot).

SA210
12-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Extra Stout, thanks. I'll also post some things that might differ a little. But good post.

smeagol
12-14-2005, 12:28 PM
Doesn't The Da Vinci Code say its late February?

Duff McCartney
12-14-2005, 12:49 PM
Christmas is a time when people of all religions come together to worship Jesus Christ.

SA210
12-14-2005, 12:49 PM
Came across this.


Was Jesus born on 25th December? There is no historical evidence as to the day or month of Christ's birth and some uncertainty exists as to the actual year. "St. Clements of Alexandria refers to calculations which placed it in April or May. Some such dates would better accord with the Gospel statement that 'shepherds were watching their flocks by night' than 25th December which falls in the cold and rainy seasons in the hilly country of Judaea".

The 25th of December could not have been the birthday of Jesus. The Bible shows that at the time "Shepherds" were still in the fields at night. As the Encyclopedia Britannia (1907, Vol. V, p. 611) acknowledges, they would not have been there in the cold, rainy season of winter (Luke 2: 8-12)." Accordingly, Jesus was not born in the winter season. We have seen that when he was born "there were, in the same country, shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flocks by night."

Could this have occurred in Judaea in the month of December? "The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountain sides and fields and corralled them not later than October 15, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed that date. Notice that the Bible itself proves, in songs of Solomon 2 : 11 and Ezra 10 : 9, 13 that winter was a rainy season not permitting shepherds to abide in open fields at night." It was ancient custom among Jews to send out their sheep to fields and deserts about the Passover in early spring and bring them home at the commencement of the first rain. During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to 'part of our October and November' (begins sometimes in October), we find that the sheep were kept in the open fields during the whole summer. And as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields, nor could He have born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night.

SA210
12-14-2005, 12:51 PM
Christmas is a time when people of all religions come together to worship Jesus Christ.
All religions?

Duff McCartney
12-14-2005, 12:54 PM
All religions?

You didn't get it.

Duff McCartney
12-14-2005, 12:54 PM
Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa.

Uncle Donnie
12-14-2005, 01:09 PM
You didn't get it.

http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/themes/religion-quotes.html

SA210
12-14-2005, 01:11 PM
:lol

Nbadan
12-17-2005, 03:59 AM
Rep. John D. Dingell (MI-15) recited the following poem on the floor of the US House of Representatives concerning House Resolution 579, which expressed the sense of the House of Representatives that the symbols and traditions of Christmas should be protected.


Madam Speaker, I urge my colleagues to vote in favor of this resolution.

Mr. DAVIS of Illinois. Madam Speaker, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Dingell), the Dean of the House.

(Mr. DINGELL asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)

Mr. DINGELL. Madam Speaker, I have a little poem.

‘Twas the week before Christmas and all through the House
No bills were passed ‘bout which Fox News could grouse;

Tax cuts for the wealthy were passed with great cheer,
So vacations in St. Barts soon would be near;

Katrina kids were nestled all snug in motel beds,
While visions of school and home danced in their heads;

In Iraq our soldiers needed supplies and a plan,
Plus nuclear weapons were being built in Iran;

Gas prices shot up, consumer confidence fell;

Americans feared we were on a fast track to…well…
Wait--- we need a distraction--- something divisive and wily;

A fabrication straight from the mouth of O’Reilly
We can pretend that Christmas is under attack
Hold a vote to save it--- then pat ourselves on the back;

Silent Night, First Noel, Away in the Manger
Wake up Congress, they’re in no danger!

This time of year we see Christmas every where we go,
From churches, to homes, to schools, and yes…even Costco;

What we have is an attempt to divide and destroy,
When this is the season to unite us with joy
At Christmas time we’re taught to unite,
We don’t need a made-up reason to fight
So on O’Reilly, on Hannity, on Coulter, and those right wing blogs;

You should just sit back, relax…have a few egg nogs!
‘Tis the holiday season: enjoy it a pinch
With all our real problems, do we honestly need another Grinch?

So to my friends and my colleagues I say with delight,
A merry Christmas to all,
and to Bill O’Reilly…Happy Holidays.

Link (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:1:./temp/~r109X0evZD:e12613)

SA210
12-17-2005, 12:16 PM
:lol

GoldToe
12-18-2005, 04:15 PM
http://www.gifs.net/animate/xmas1.gif

xrayzebra
12-18-2005, 04:50 PM
Has anyone, besides me, every heard the term: Dingellberry?

GoldToe
12-18-2005, 04:55 PM
Has anyone, besides me, every heard the term: Dingellberry?

You mean like when you don't wipe your ass good enough?

xrayzebra
12-18-2005, 07:28 PM
Yeah, that is what you get when you don't. Dingell-berry, a hanging thingy.