Is King Kong racist?

[Crookshanks]

Is KING KONG racist? asks Jim Pinkerton in his Thursday NEWSDAY column.

"Lots of people say it is. And, if it is, why does the film keep getting remade? What does it say about us if the new KONG is a huge hit?"

Pinkerton writes: Any movie that features white people sailing off to the Third World to capture a giant ape and carry it back to the West for exploitation is going to be seen as a metaphor for colonialism and racism. That was true for the original in 1933 and for the two remakes: the campy one in 1976, and the latest, directed by Peter Jackson. (In addition, a KONG wannabe, MIGHTY JOE YOUNG, has been made twice.)

Movie reviewer David Edelstein, writing in SLATE, notes the "implicit racism of KING KONG - the implication that Kong stands for the black man brought in chains from a dark island (full of murderous primitive pagans) and with a penchant for skinny white blondes." Indeed, a GOOGLE search using the words "King Kong racism" yielded 490,000 hits.

Comparing the new film with the original, the WASHINGTON POST's Stephen Hunter observed, "It remains a parable of exploitation, cultural self-importance, the arrogance of the West, all issues that were obvious in the original but unexamined; they remain unexamined here, if more vivid."

And by more vivid, Hunter might be referring to the natives of mythical Skull Island, where Kong is discovered. Director Jackson took people of Melanesian stock - the dark-skinned peoples who are indigenous to much of the South Pacific, including Jackson's own country of New Zealand - and made them up to look and act like monsters, more zombie-ish than human. Indeed, one is moved to compare these human devils to the ogre-ish Orcs from Jackson's mega-Oscar LORD OF THE RINGS films. The bad guys are dark, hideous and undifferentiatedly evil.

=============
I found this interesting - I never ever thought of King Kong as racist - but then, I haven't watched the movie either.

What do you think?

[Extra Stout]

LOTR is racist too. Everybody except the orcs is white, and all the imagery is Eurocentric, specifically medieval Norse.

Peter Jackson is a horrible racist filmmaker and almost as bad a leader as Donovan McNabb is.

[SpursWoman]

I think anyone who makes any kind of connection at all between apes and black people is incredibly racist, even to suggest that other people might...it obviously crossed the writer's mind.

That connection never even crossed mine. :fro

[Extra Stout]

I think anyone who makes any kind of connection at all between apes and black people is incredibly racist and should be shot on the spot.

That connection never even crossed my mind. :fro
You're white, so you're not qualified to talk about racism, you minion of the oppressor class, you.

[JoeChalupa]

I can see the view point.

[ChumpDumper]

I heard a noted critic gave it a thumbs up....
http://www.ipaulo.com/images/thumbsup.jpg

[Extra Stout]

Peter Jackson's next project will be Birth of a Nation.

[jochhejaam]

Most Zoos across the Country are contemplating closing the gorilla and monkey exhibits because of the obvious racial overtones.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I can see the view point.


especially when you consider that the original was produced in 1933, not exactly a time of racial harmony in the US.

[boutons]

"Kong is racist, colonialist, imperialist, white/Euro-centric" is a legitimate, defensible appraisal, but probably academic since tons of black people will see it purely on the entertainment level.

[SpursWoman]

Life must suck for the terminally paranoid. :fro

[JoePublic]

And why the hell can't King Kong save a beautiful black woman?

I'm sure Halle Berry would have done the role justice.

[JoePublic]

And though it may sound paronaid and foolish.
You have to be blind not to see the racist tones, even if they were unintentional.
Yeah, right.

Perhaps not now, but clearly in the original version. I'm surprised they didn't have Kong firing up a blunt.

[Trainwreck2100]

I see where he's coming from alot of slaves were shot down by planes.


Indeed, a GOOGLE search using the words "King Kong racism" yielded 490,000 hits.


489,000 of those hits were prob porn anyway

[SpursWoman]

I don't approach everything I see looking for the negative in it....that doesn't make me blind. It's a big fucking monkey...why am I supposed to assume it's racist? Unless, of course, somewhere in the back of my mind I associate monkeys with black people. Should I be making this association...so that I can turn around and call it's creator a racist, even though I really don't know shit about him?



The only thing that crosses my mind when I see a monkey is that time at the zoo when my daughter was about 3 and it was mating season, apparently, and I had to explain to her what that certain part of it's anatomy was that it was playing with. Apparently ya'll think of black people and how someone else must be a racist. How ironic.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

What an absolute moron! How the fuck do they make that connection? thats reaching if I ever saw it.

[Dos]

it doesn't make sense to me .. I mean what the hell did those huge apes evolve into.. lol

[1369]

And though it may sound paronaid and foolish.
You have to be blind not to see the racist tones, even if they were unintentional.

Yea, that does sound paranoid.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I see where he's coming from alot of slaves were shot down by planes.


The planes represent law enforcement. You gonna tell me that black guys don't get shot down by law enforcement agencies?

[JoeChalupa]

I can see it. But that is just me.

[Hook Dem]

This whole idea is ridiculous! It's a movie about a fictional ape and it is a re-make. Think it's racist? Don't wanna see it? Simple......don't go!!!!! Everything is not black & white. There are shades of color in between. Damn, the world is paranoid! :lol

[Oh, Gee!!]

This whole idea is ridiculous! It's a movie about a fictional ape and it is a re-make. Think it's racist? Don't wanna see it? Simple......don't go!!!!! Everything is not black & white. There are shades of color in between. Damn, the world is paranoid! :lol


I'm probably going to watch it myself, but that doesn't mean that I won't at least consider with an open mind the editorial writer's arguments. I think he brings up some good points about the story especially if you consider when in history the original was created.

[Useruser666]

Where do you find a one of a kind creature like King Kong? Of course you are going to have to go to a remote place. Anyone who can honestly say that the story behind King Kong is racist is reaching for something. Something that extends from deep inside them, something not all that different from racism itself.

The first Jurrasic park movie went to a remote island. All the characters that lived were white. The only black man was killed and was obviously an "uncle tom" because he worked for "the man". The dino's didn't even get killed in the end, the white people were just allowed to escape the dinosaur "ghetto" and get back to "white america". The whities just let the "black dinosaurs" live in their ghetto until they wanted something from the "black dinosaurs". What was that you ask? An "athletic black dinosaur" to show off at a "sporting stadium". Just like black athletes of today, the "poor black dinosaur" was captured by whitey and was forced into being a specticle or show for the white people to sit in amazement of the "black dino's" great size and strength. The white "Engen" wanted to exploit the "black dino" for money. When the crackers finally got the "black dino" to white america they learned they couldn't control such a fierce creature and tried frantically to put him down. White people all over white america were petrified that they would run into the "black dino" on the streets and he would kill them. White people couldn't get a nights sleep until the "black dino" was finaly caged up and sent far away where he couldn't hurt any white people anymore.

So there you have it! Jurrasic Park is obviously RACIST!!!!

[JoeChalupa]

I'm probably going to watch it myself, but that doesn't mean that I won't at least consider with an open mind the editorial writer's arguments. I think he brings up some good points about the story especially if you consider when in history the original was created.

I concur.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The only black man was killed and was obviously an "uncle tom" because he worked for "the man". The dino's didn't even get killed in the end, the white people were just allowed to escape

wasn't Newman killed also?

http://www.unc.edu/~hymas/images/newman.jpg

[Useruser666]

Newman is the the fat pawn of the white devil. He was killed because he was trafficing in "young black dino babies".

Oh, and Newman isn't black by the way.

[SpursWoman]

I'm probably going to watch it myself, but that doesn't mean that I won't at least consider with an open mind the editorial writer's arguments. I think he brings up some good points about the story especially if you consider when in history the original was created.

I do understand the argument...but I fail to see how it in of itself isn't racist. The only way he could have possibly even considered that POV is if he himself to some degree associates black people with gorillas. He is the one that's making that association....I'm not saying it's not possible because I really don't know much about the creator, but I'm not going to assume he's racist because he made a movie about a giant monkey.

The way I see it is as someone with a pretty wild imagination making a movie for purely entertainment purposes (and to make some $$)....along the lines of Godzilla. Unless Godzilla is supposed to be racist as well? I don't think that's a bad way to view it...it makes it a lot more enjoyable for me, anyway.

Purposefully going out and trying to find racial overtones in anything simply perpetuates the problem, IMO.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The only way he could have possibly even considered that POV is if he himself to some degree associates black people with gorillas.

He's saying the creator of the film associates black people with apes either consciously or subconsciously. After all, the original director said he got the idea from a dream he had.

I don't believe you were unaware of the fact that blacks used to be (and still are) called monkeys and apes. You've been around the block a few times from what I hear; I suspect you're playing ignorant.

[xrayzebra]

I thought he was an Ape, but what do I know.

[Useruser666]

He's saying the creator of the film associates black people with apes either consciously or subconsciously. After all, the original director said he got the idea from a dream he had.

I don't believe you were unaware of the fact that blacks used to be (and still are) called monkeys and apes. You've been around the block a few times from what I hear; I suspect you're playing ignorant.

So anyone who ever talks about a monkey or a gorilla is a racist? Do you know for a fact that the original director said that he came up with his idea's for the film from the same supposed symbolism implied by the article? Did the director write the story? Was the director racist? Any one know any actual facts? I guess if you can come up with the story of a giant gorilla climbing up a skyscraper then you can find the imaginatio to twist it into some race war propaganda.

[Useruser666]

Kong was obviously killed because he wanted to get with a white woman.

[SpursWoman]

You've been around the block a few times from what I hear; I suspect you're playing ignorant.



I was actually giving thoughtful consideration to your response right up until that point. Have a nice day. :)

[Oh, Gee!!]

So anyone who ever talks about a monkey or a gorilla is a racist? Do you know for a fact that the original director said that he came up with his idea's for the film from the same supposed symbolism implied by the article? Did the director write the story? Was the director racist? Any one know any actual facts? I guess if you can come up with the story of a giant gorilla climbing up a skyscraper then you can find the imaginatio to twist it into some race war propaganda.

I didn't write the article so I'm not saying that King Kong is racist. My only point is that the writer's argument is plausible.

Taken from the following link: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0178260/bio

The director/writer was one Merian C. Cooper (aka Meriam C. Cooper).

A few facts about Cooper:

Cooper had a bizarre dream about a giant ape that was destroying New York City and recorded it when woke up. This was the basis for the classic King Kong (1933), which he developed and produced.

Entered the U.S. Naval Academy with the Class of 1915. He left in his senior year. In 1916, he joined the Georgia National Guard to help chase Pancho Villa in Mexico.

Quote:

"You are going to have the tallest, darkest leading man in Hollywood" - To Fay Wray regarding King Kong (1933)

[Oh, Gee!!]

I was actually giving thoughtful consideration to your response right up until that point. Have a nice day. :)


yeah, I figured that would upset you. :lol

[SpursWoman]

You give yourself too much credit. :)

[Yonivore]

I was actually giving thoughtful consideration to your response right up until that point. Have a nice day. :)
I haven't seen you on my block... :(

[SpursWoman]

I haven't seen you on my block... :(


Sorry...I'd been around too many others and I was all wiped out. I was saving the best for last. :lol :makeout

[Yonivore]

Sorry...I'd been around too many others and I was all wiped out. I was saving the best for last. :lol :makeout
I'll be ready. ;)

[Oh, Gee!!]

I was saving the best for last. :lol :makeout/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Yonivore]I'll be ready. ;)


a little girl on girl action, huh? nice

[SA210]

Clubber, u ain't so bad!!!!

[Yonivore]

a little girl on girl action, huh? nice
Yeah, you pay attention.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Clubber, u ain't so bad!!!!


Hey, sucker! You're finished! You're through! You're washed up! I'm the baddest in the world!

What you say, paper champion? I'm gonna beat you like a dog.

Do you know who I am? I'm the man! I'll get you, sucker! You're dead meat!

[Yonivore]

Hey, sucker! You're finished! You're through! You're washed up! I'm the baddest in the world!

What you say, paper champion? I'm gonna beat you like a dog.

Do you know who I am? I'm the man! I'll get you, sucker! You're dead meat!
Wow! I say leave the 'roids alone dude.

[Useruser666]

So without any proof or anything to back it up it remains plausible? Pffft! If you agree it with the article writer on some terms then I would imagine you have some reason for it. What is it?

[SA210]

Hey, sucker! You're finished! You're through! You're washed up! I'm the baddest in the world!

What you say, paper champion? I'm gonna beat you like a dog.

Do you know who I am? I'm the man! I'll get you, sucker! You're dead meat!
But I ain't breathin' heavy. You ain't so bad. You ain't so bad.
You ain't so bad. You ain't nothin!

[Oh, Gee!!]

So without any proof or anything to back it up it remains plausible? Pffft! If you agree it with the article writer on some terms then I would imagine you have some reason for it. What is it?


Did I ever say that I agree with the writer you fucking retard? Can you not read? I only said that I kept an open mind when reading the article and could see his viewpoint. I didn't just turn off my brain and call bullshit.

BTW, his theory cannot be proven so stop asking for proof, dipshit.

[SA210]

^^^ Yo, yous don't talk like that in front of my wife, you know!!

[JoeChalupa]

Well, looks like this film is going to be flop if it doesn't really earn some major jack this weekend.

[Yonivore]

Well, looks like this film is going to be flop if it doesn't really earn some major jack this weekend.
I'm gonna see it this weekend.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Me too. I actually like the 70s version even though it gets horrible reviews

[Extra Stout]

It's not the depiction of the giant ape that is "racist."

Nor is it really "racist" against black people, i.e. of African descent.

It's the depiction of Melanesians as wild savages* that could be problematic. (Last time I saw Vijay Singh on TV, he did not have a bone through his nose, nor was he trying to throw the other golfers into a cauldron.) The original just took that for granted, you know, "white man's burden" and all that. Jackson tried to take the edge off that by depicting the islanders as possessed zombies rather than being savage simply by virtue of being Melanesian; the reviewer seems to think that makes it worse rather than better.

But what can you say? The original was made in 1933. It reflects the attitudes of the time. It is what it is. If you try to sanitize the material, you pretty much can't make the movie because the plot disintegrates.

*We won't talk about the Solomon Islands.

[SA210]

it'll do well

[Useruser666]

Did I ever say that I agree with the writer you fucking retard? Can you not read? I only said that I kept an open mind when reading the article and could see his viewpoint. I didn't just turn off my brain and call bullshit.

BTW, his theory cannot be proven so stop asking for proof, dipshit.

Thanks for turning this into an insult battle.


"I think he brings up some good points about the story especially if you consider when in history the original was created."

So you think he has some good points? That is the ridiculous part of this whole discussion. He has nothing to back up anything he says other than, "Hey it was made back in the day when everything was racist!" Yeah that's absolutely a great basis for making the charge that someone or thing is racist. I consider calling out racism where there is none something seriously inappropriate. It is just as bad as racism itself. Oh and thanks for breaking this down to insults.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Thanks for turning this into an insult battle.

you're welcome



1. So you think he has some good points? That is the ridiculous part of this whole discussion.
2. He has nothing to back up anything he says other than, "Hey it was made back in the day when everything was racist!" Yeah that's absolutely a great basis for making the charge that someone or thing is racist.
3. I consider calling out racism where there is none something seriously inappropriate. It is just as bad as racism itself.
4. Oh and thanks for breaking this down to insults.

1. It's ridiculous that I think the writer makes good points? Sounds like an personal attack to me.
2. When it was made is but one consideration. The writer also uses imagery of the ape being plucked from his native land and brought to the west, the dark-skinned natives acting like savages, and Kong's obsession with the white-skinned beauty to bolster his argument. You don't have to agree with the writer; I don't agree with him. But I do think he did do more than claim the movie has racist undertones without giving reasons as to why.
3. really? who cares?
4. you said that already

[JoeChalupa]

I can see where he gets his opinion and I don't know why but it is clear to me. Is he right? I don't know but I think he explains his view.
Opinions are based on facts or information the way the opinionee sees it.

What may offend or strike someone may not fly right over another person's head. It doesn't mean that the issue isn't there..it just may not be there for everyone.

I guess it is hard to explain.

[Useruser666]

you're welcome



1. It's ridiculous that I think the writer makes good points? Sounds like an personal attack to me.
2. When it was made is but one consideration. The writer also uses imagery of the ape being plucked from his native land and brought to the west, the dark-skinned natives acting like savages, and Kong's obsession with the white-skinned beauty to bolster his argument. You don't have to agree with the writer; I don't agree with him. But I do think he did do more than claim the movie has racist undertones without giving reasons as to why.
3. really? who cares?
4. you said that already

Calling an idea ridiculous is not even close to calling someone retarded. You're stretching that just like the racism in Kong.

I see what symbolism the article writer is trying weave links between, but I can at step one call him out for such false accusations. If the writer uncovered some quotes from the director stating he made it as a smybolic reference to slavery or racial cultural differences, then I'd maybe give it an ounce of credit. But he doesn't even bother to push that aspect of his story. This is probably because this is just a load of BS trying to use race as a way to lure readers in. Flame pieces like this often cause more harm than good and detract from the real issues at hand.

[Ocotillo]

The only thing that crosses my mind when I see a monkey is that time at the zoo when my daughter was about 3 and it was mating season, apparently, and I had to explain to her what that certain part of it's anatomy was that it was playing with. Apparently ya'll think of black people and how someone else must be a racist. How ironic.

That is a stereotype of the black male being an oversexed beast!!

:angel

[JoeChalupa]

Again, it is perception that I am talking about. If his perception is that it is somehow racist, and again I can see how, then it is not a false accusation simply because one does not agree with it.

But the hell with it. I'm waiting for the DVD!!!

[Oh, Gee!!]

If the writer uncovered some quotes from the director stating he made it as a smybolic reference to slavery or racial cultural differences, then I'd maybe give it an ounce of credit.

which is why it's an opinion piece and not a biography of Merrian. The guy has an opinion and provides reasons for that opinion. I'm tired of discussing it.

[SpursWoman]

That is a stereotype of the black male being an oversexed beast!!

:angel



....and I'm pretty sure there's been several *films* made about that. :lol :wow

[Ocotillo]

....and I'm pretty sure there's been several *films* made about that. :lol :wow

Did you ever see "Mandingo"?

[Useruser666]

I'm not saying the guy's not right because it's his opinion, I'm saying he's not right because he has no facts or basis other than his own opinion. I agree anyone can have an opinion about anything, that doesn't make them right.

[DarkReign]

And why the hell can't King Kong save a beautiful black woman?

I'm sure Halle Berry would have done the role justice.

Halle Berry couldnt act her way thru a 6th grade rendition of Rent.

Worst Oscar winner besides Marissa Tomei.

[SA210]

Hey, Marissa Tomei was great in My Cousin Vinny.

[DarkReign]

Hey, Marissa Tomei was great in My Cousin Vinny.

ding ding ding

You win! Marissa Tomei won best actress for her startling role in My Cousin Vinny!

"My biological clock is ticking...LIKE...THIS!"

:rolleyes

[GoldToe]

You must not know great acting. Halle Berry is great actress!

[SA210]

Halle Berry Is a great actress.

[SpursWoman]

No, she just looks great...it's clouding your judgement. :lol

[SA210]

You might be right.

[Yonivore]

Hey, Marissa Tomei was great in My Cousin Vinny.

My favorite line:

"Oh yeah...you blend."

[TonyMontana]

Is KING KONG racist? asks Jim Pinkerton in his Thursday NEWSDAY column.

"Lots of people say it is. And, if it is, why does the film keep getting remade? What does it say about us if the new KONG is a huge hit?"

Pinkerton writes: Any movie that features white people sailing off to the Third World to capture a giant ape and carry it back to the West for exploitation is going to be seen as a metaphor for colonialism and racism. That was true for the original in 1933 and for the two remakes: the campy one in 1976, and the latest, directed by Peter Jackson. (In addition, a KONG wannabe, MIGHTY JOE YOUNG, has been made twice.)

Movie reviewer David Edelstein, writing in SLATE, notes the "implicit racism of KING KONG - the implication that Kong stands for the black man brought in chains from a dark island (full of murderous primitive pagans) and with a penchant for skinny white blondes." Indeed, a GOOGLE search using the words "King Kong racism" yielded 490,000 hits.

Comparing the new film with the original, the WASHINGTON POST's Stephen Hunter observed, "It remains a parable of exploitation, cultural self-importance, the arrogance of the West, all issues that were obvious in the original but unexamined; they remain unexamined here, if more vivid."

And by more vivid, Hunter might be referring to the natives of mythical Skull Island, where Kong is discovered. Director Jackson took people of Melanesian stock - the dark-skinned peoples who are indigenous to much of the South Pacific, including Jackson's own country of New Zealand - and made them up to look and act like monsters, more zombie-ish than human. Indeed, one is moved to compare these human devils to the ogre-ish Orcs from Jackson's mega-Oscar LORD OF THE RINGS films. The bad guys are dark, hideous and undifferentiatedly evil.

=============
I found this interesting - I never ever thought of King Kong as racist - but then, I haven't watched the movie either.

What do you think?


people see what they want to see. the racists are the ones making the comparison. that war is over in case nobody noticed. racism is dead except in the minds and hearts of the ignorant.

[chode_regulator]

I think anyone who makes any kind of connection at all between apes and black people is incredibly racist, even to suggest that other people might...it obviously crossed the writer's mind.

That connection never even crossed mine. :fro
exactly. im sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of everything having to be racist or sexist or whatever the fuck else. and all this hate crime bullshit. i htink im goignto move to canada in the next coupole of years. im realy starting to not like the people who have control, in govt and media, over america.

[JoeChalupa]

people see what they want to see. the racists are the ones making the comparison. that war is over in case nobody noticed. racism is dead except in the minds and hearts of the ignorant.


I agree but thinking that racism doesn't exist is ignorant too.

[ididnotnothat]

I agree but thinking that racism doesn't exist is ignorant too.

Looks like you are one of the few who read racism into this movie or at least can see what the writer is referring to.

[chode_regulator]

You must not know great acting. Halle Berry is great actress!
care to explain how the fuck halle berry is a great actress??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

[GoldToe]

care to explain how the fuck halle berry is a great actress??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

Monster's Ball
Losing Isiah and the two that stand out to me.
If you don't like her acting that is your personal opinion.

[bigzak25]

I agree but thinking that racism doesn't exist is ignorant too.

you of course have a point brother, but i didn't say it doesn't exist.
i said the idea of racism is dead except in the minds of the ignorant.

sadly, there are many people out there that still judge based on skin color. :(

even more sadly, there are those that want to keep it that way so they keep their jobs of faux saviors or keep the victim mentality. :(


Overcome. Many with less have. What's the excuse? And sometimes people out there are just aholes to other people. But minorities will automatically think it's race motivated, which MAY, or MAY NOT, be the case...

[SA210]

Besides this whole King Kong thing.

There is alot more racism out there than ppl would actually like to admit.

[bigzak25]

Besides this whole King Kong thing.

There is alot more racism out there than ppl would actually like to admit.



i'll admit it. and i'll admit it on a national stage.

i'll call out the rappers that are rapping about guns, violence, drugs, bling bling and the degradation of women.

they are the true racists. keeping people down. teaching them to worship all the false shit. and teaching them to blame others.

[Extra Stout]

Besides this whole King Kong thing.

There is alot more racism out there than ppl would actually like to admit.

Take two neighborhoods. Assume they were built at the same time, with similar-looking houses. Assume the schools are comparable. Assume the taxes are comparable. Neither has any problem with crime. The landscaping in each is kept up very nicely.

But one is populated mostly by whites while the other has a lot of minorities. The houses in the white neighborhood will be worth 10-20% more.

[bigzak25]

Take two neighborhoods. Assume they were built at the same time, with similar-looking houses. Assume the schools are comparable. Assume the taxes are comparable. Neither has any problem with crime. The landscaping in each is kept up very nicely.

But one is populated mostly by whites while the other has a lot of minorities. The houses in the white neighborhood will be worth 10-20% more.


who cares what the houses are worth. they have the same houses, same schools, same taxes, and no crime. sounds like utopia.

it's not how you start, it's how you finish. african american people are no more inclined to violence or drugs or alchohol than white, mexican, or whatever.

that's a misconception, and a stereotype.

NOW, lack of education, and lack of strong parenting are major contributors to the violence drugs and alchohol. And that crosses ever race on the planet. But when you have predominantly african american rappers singing about ho's, guns, sex, violence, bling bling, etc. Yeah, that doesn't help. Cuz kids look to them as role models. Shit, even i did. I still love the music, more the beats...but the words...not so much anymore. I see through all the bullshit now. But Kanye tries to do something about it....Bill Cosby tries to speak up about it...and people get pissed. What happened to believing in Martin Luther Kings words about being judged by the content of our character?

[SA210]

^^^ Are you saying it's ok to judge, and judge on the conent of character?

Hmmm. interesting.

[bigzak25]

^^^ Are you saying it's ok to judge, and judge on the conent of character?

Hmmm. interesting.


look man, it's not right to judge. but people do it every day, numerous times a day. so i say? if they are gonna do it anyway, even though they shouldn't, at least do it by the content of a man or woman's character, which is seen by their actions. :tu

[SA210]

look man, it's not right to judge. but people do it every day, numerous times a day. so i say? if they are gonna do it anyway, even though they shouldn't, at least do it by the content of a man or woman's character, which is seen by their actions. :tu
Thanks

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/animated_bush_smokej.gif

[bigzak25]

it's no secret that oil is in Iraq.

oil means Saddam had resources to obtain weapons and distribute as he pleased.

thus the need to remove Saddam.

Why don't you guys find some pics of the Schools and Voting and recognize the fact that the Children of Iraq have a Brighter Future....Thanks to the decisions of George W. Bush. AND that American has two new allies in the war on terror...Afghanistan and Iraq. IN the heart of the lions den. Good stategery, if you ask me. :tu

Democracy in those countries would strike a blow to AlQaida harder than any bomb could. Every Person on Earth should have the chance to be Free. Don't you agree?

[SA210]

We have allies? The world hates us.

[SA210]

Oh nevermind

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_debate_poland.jpg

[bigzak25]

We have allies? The world hates us.


right right. you are kidding yourself.

their is big MONEY in media. Hating Bush is en vogue. YOu guys eat it up.

The british eat it up. Other countries that got caught with their hand in the cookie jar have an interest in making America look bad.

Do the Iraqi and Afghan people have more freedom today then they did under AlQaida and Hussein control/regime?

YUP.

so who gives a damn what the world thinks. WE KNOW THE TRUTH? Right? I mean, you see what i see don't you?

[SA210]

Oh nevermind

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_debate_poland.jpg

[Extra Stout]

who cares what the houses are worth. they have the same houses, same schools, same taxes, and no crime. sounds like utopia.And the white people are granted an additional $25,000 in equity for no reason other than being white people surrounded by other white people.

$25,000 is a lot of money, last time I checked. I imagine you'd get a lot further ahead if somebody dropped $25,000 in your lap.

So a white person looking out for the best interests of his family, armed with this knowledge, would tend to stay in a white neighborhood to get the higher property values, even if he had no particular racial preference. The discrepancy becomes self-perpetuating.

Thus the economic legacy of racism can persist for a long time after the racist attitudes fade.

You are largely correct that the overtly hateful racist attitudes have faded over time. But racism is not always the same thing as racial bigotry, hatred, or oppression. It can stay embedded in the system for a while.

[bigzak25]

but despite what property vaules are, if the quality of education and parenting is equal?

then the children have an equal opportunity to make their dreams come true and live whereever they want to...

fix the parenting. 1st.

then fixing the education is much simpler, as the teacher don't have to waste time being disciplinarians and can actually teach...:tu

[SA210]

but despite what property vaules are, if the quality of education and parenting is equal?

You have got to be kidding.

[gtownspur]

And the white people are granted an additional $25,000 in equity for no reason other than being white people surrounded by other white people.

$25,000 is a lot of money, last time I checked. I imagine you'd get a lot further ahead if somebody dropped $25,000 in your lap.

So a white person looking out for the best interests of his family, armed with this knowledge, would tend to stay in a white neighborhood to get the higher property values, even if he had no particular racial preference. The discrepancy becomes self-perpetuating.

Thus the economic legacy of racism can persist for a long time after the racist attitudes fade.

You are largely correct that the overtly hateful racist attitudes have faded over time. But racism is not always the same thing as racial bigotry, hatred, or oppression. It can stay embedded in the system for a while.


You have a point in theory. But it be hard to find an all black neighborhood and all white neighborhood with similiar crime, housing, and etc. One of the principles of real estate is that no real property is the same.

Granted, there are things such as white flight. But the same was true for jews and itallians in the early years of our country. SO racial economic equality should not be the sole blame for the ills of the african american community. I believe behavior is also a factor. Wether you can prove that lower property value contributes to high fatherless birth rates in the black community is a tough assertion altogether.

[bigzak25]

You have got to be kidding.


my statement was based on his hypothetical. :tu

[bigzak25]

switch all the people in compton with the people in beverly hills. houses, cars, everything.

they cannot move. they can improve their property as they wish.


10 years go by.

what do compton and beverly hills look like?

similar? different? is compton worse or better? beveryly hills?

what are you opinions. since you want to bring property values into this.

You guys heard me when i said it's parenting, or lack thereof that is the Main problem, NO, the ONLY problem.

[gtownspur]

WHich is only, a hypothetical.

[xrayzebra]

We have allies? The world hates us.

Oh my, I do so want to be liked. Our interest have no meaning, unless
we are liked. Does this mean we wont be ask to dance at the prom.
I guess the UK, Australia and others don't count. You are so
arrogant.

[Oh, Gee!!]

switch all the people in compton with the people in beverly hills. houses, cars, everything.

they cannot move. they can improve their property as they wish.


10 years go by.

what do compton and beverly hills look like?

similar? different? is compton worse or better? beveryly hills?

what are you opinions. since you want to bring property values into this.

You guys heard me when i said it's parenting, or lack thereof that is the Main problem, NO, the ONLY problem.


I bet you wish you were from Compton, right? So your rhymes would have some street cred.

[SA210]

Oh my, I do so want to be liked. Our interest have no meaning, unless
we are liked. Does this mean we wont be ask to dance at the prom.
I guess the UK, Australia and others don't count. You are so
arrogant.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_debate_poland.jpg

[bigzak25]

I bet you wish you were from Compton, right? So your rhymes would have some street cred.


i don't need no street cred. i got the truth. it's much more powerful.

but i'll keep it to myself until the time is right. that's the last you'll hear from me on the subject on this board. :tu

[xrayzebra]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_debate_poland.jpg


No I didn't, it comes under: "others".

[SA210]

:lol

[Extra Stout]

You have a point in theory. But it be hard to find an all black neighborhood and all white neighborhood with similiar crime, housing, and etc. One of the principles of real estate is that no real property is the same.
Affluent mixed-race neighborhoods do exist in cities where the minority middle class flourishes.


Granted, there are things such as white flight. But the same was true for jews and itallians in the early years of our country. SO racial economic equality should not be the sole blame for the ills of the african american community. I believe behavior is also a factor. Wether you can prove that lower property value contributes to high fatherless birth rates in the black community is a tough assertion altogether.
Oh, I'm not arguing that socioeconomic issues are the "sole blame" for the problems in the black community. There are plenty of self-inflicted cultural and attitude problems. There are some "remedies" the liberals tried that were based upon racist assumptions and did more harm than good.

I simply was arguing that racism is more complex than just bigotry.

[Extra Stout]

You have got to be kidding.
He's looking at it in terms of individuals rather than in terms of populations.

He also doesn't understand economics.

Which brings up another question. Is a person ignorant of economics because he has no money, or does a person have no money because he is ignorant of economics?

[xrayzebra]

Affluent mixed-race neighborhoods do exist in cities where the minority middle class flourishes.


Oh, I'm not arguing that socioeconomic issues are the "sole blame" for the problems in the black community. There are plenty of self-inflicted cultural and attitude problems. There are some "remedies" the liberals tried that were based upon racist assumptions and did more harm than good.

I simply was arguing that racism is more complex than just bigotry.

They exist here in San Antonio, all over the place. Mixed-race neighborhoods. Oh, and by the way, some beighbors don't like other
neightbors, but isn't because of race. Hell, there are lots of people I
don't care for, even some on this board. :lol

[bigzak25]

who needs money? not me. it's a tool. i use it. it comes and goes.

i guess i'm just ignorant of economics. :lol

and you damn right i'm looking at individuals.

you fix the individuals, you fix the populations. :tu

[Extra Stout]

They exist here in San Antonio, all over the place. Mixed-race neighborhoods. Oh, and by the way, some beighbors don't like other
neightbors, but isn't because of race. Hell, there are lots of people I
don't care for, even some on this board. :lol
I wonder what the correlation is between % Latino residents in a subdivision in Bexar County and property values, holding constant average square footage, lot size, and age?

Where's TheWriter when you really need him?

[Extra Stout]

who needs money? not me. it's a tool. i use it. it comes and goes.

i guess i'm just ignorant of economics. :lol
You're supposed to be a wise steward of the resources you are allocated.

I don't know if that is in The Gospel According to Zac, but it is in the actual Bible.

[SA210]

^^^ the bible is "just a book" to Zak.

[xrayzebra]

I wonder what the correlation is between % Latino residents in a subdivision in Bexar County and property values, holding constant average square footage, lot size, and age?

Where's TheWriter when you really need him?

I have no idea. Doubt the stats are available anywhere. But, I would bet
in most neighborhoods a good percentage of the homes are owned by
"others" rather than Anglo's. I would even go so far as to guess that
this would hold true in the more affluent neighborhoods.

[bigzak25]

You're supposed to be a wise steward of the resources you are allocated.


you have a point. i will take that to heart. thanks. :tu



^^^ the bible is "just a book" to Zak.


the most important book, no doubt. but yeah, just a book. :tu

[SA210]

:rolleyes

[bigzak25]

^that's your best post so far. :lol

[SA210]

The bible is the word of God, but yet you think it's just a book.

[Extra Stout]

the most important book, no doubt. but yeah, just a book.
Funny... its claim for itself is to be the inspired word of God, useful for all matters of faith and practice.

[bigzak25]

well maybe i'm just a bit wiser than you are.

the bible has been translated countless times and while the Commandments may be the words of God, the others are stories as told by Men that have experienced enlightenment in one way or another. I value the New Testament and any and every word that Jesus speaks very very much. I value Psalms. I value Proverbs. I value the whole book.

But I don't worship the book. I think what i am telling you is going over your head. I'm sorry for that.

[SA210]

So u believe only part of the bible is the word of God, not all of it?

[bigzak25]

Funny... its claim for itself is to be the inspired word of God, useful for all matters of faith and practice.


what was the last book you read? in the Bible?


I will not debate the merits of the Book with those that don't bother to read it.

[SA210]

^^ well it's seems as though only certain ones matter, no?

[bigzak25]

So u believe only part of the bible is the word of God, not all of it?


I follow Jesus. Anything in the Good Book that doesn't preach love, i disagree with. That's all i have to say about that.

[SA210]

I follow Jesus. Anything in the Good Book that doesn't preach love, i disagree with. That's all i have to say about that.
Oh, well that's the way to go. :tu makes sense.

[Extra Stout]

well maybe i'm just a bit wiser than you are.
Maybe your "Christianity" is really "whatever the hell Zac decides for himself of his own power, with a whole lot of quasi-Christian mumbo jumbo thrown in."


the bible has been translated countless times
Each English version of the Bible that we have was translated directly from manuscripts in the original languages.


and while the Commandments may be the words of God, the others are stories as told by Men that have experienced enlightenment in one way or another. I value the New Testament and any and every word that Jesus speaks very very much. I value Psalms. I value Proverbs. I value the whole book.
Then what you are saying is that the Bible gives false testimony about itself. Exactly what measure of reliability do you give such a tome?


But I don't worship the book. I think what i am telling you is going over your head. I'm sorry for that.I'm curious what exactly the anchor is for your faith if it is not grounded in Scripture. Do you just make it up as you go along and call it "God?"

[Extra Stout]

what was the last book you read? in the Bible?


I will not debate the merits of the Book with those that don't bother to read it.
Believe me, that's not a fight you want to take on.

[bigzak25]

I'm curious what exactly the anchor is for your faith if it is not grounded in Scripture.

Jesus Christ. whom i've learned much about THROUGH Scripture.

[bigzak25]

Believe me, that's not a fight you want to take on.


why not. i'm confident. are you? i have my foundation, even if i haven't read all the books.

[bigzak25]

maybe you can teach me something. i need more knowledge and i'm anxious to learn Good Sir.

[Oh, Gee!!]

maybe you can teach me something. i need more knowledge and i'm anxious to learn Good Sir.


get banned

[SA210]

Jesus Christ. whom i've learned much about THROUGH Scripture.
Through scipture that's only partially true in your opinion. :tu right.

[bigzak25]

get banned

I guess i'm too much for you. Sorry. Maybe we need a kiddie political forum.

[Extra Stout]

I follow Jesus. Anything in the Good Book that doesn't preach love, i disagree with. That's all i have to say about that.

Jesus? Whom the Gospel of John said was the Word of God made flesh?

Jesus? The one who said, "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven." Is that the one you follow?

Do you follow the Jesus who said, ""You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"

[bigzak25]

Through scipture that's only partially true in your opinion. :tu right.


I have no reason to doubt ANY of Jesus words. I value them with all my heart.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I guess i'm too much for you. Sorry. Maybe we need a kiddie political forum.


yes, you need the practice

[bigzak25]

Jesus? Whom the Gospel of John said was the Word of God made flesh?

Jesus? The one who said, "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven." Is that the one you follow?

Do you follow the Jesus who said, ""You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"


who said i want to take away from the GoodBook. I don't want to do anything of the kind. But i can read between the lines better than most.

[bigzak25]

yes, you need the practice


then why don't you put me on ignore? you just can't handle the truth brother.

it's your choice. now make it!

[Extra Stout]

who said i want to take away from the GoodBook. I don't want to do anything of the kind. But i can read between the lines better than most.
“But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Peter 1:20-21 NASB).

Choose to believe what you will, but don't presume that it is the Christian God that you worship. You worship the god of Zac.

[Extra Stout]

why not. i'm confident. are you? i have my foundation, even if i haven't read all the books.The Bible is the vehicle through God communicates to us the covenant offered to us through the grace of Jesus Christ.

If your foundation and understanding of Jesus Christ does not square with Scripture, then you are in error. Period.

[bigzak25]

well, sir, since I've been moved by the holy spirit, i'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. but whatever you want to think is fine by me. :tu

[bigzak25]

The Bible is the vehicle through God communicates to us the covenant offered to us through the grace of Jesus Christ.

If your foundation and understanding of Jesus Christ does not square with Scripture, then you are in error. Period.


tell me something i don't know.

[Extra Stout]

well, sir, since I've been moved by the holy spirit, i'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. but whatever you want to think is fine by me. :tu
There are spirits which claim to be the Holy Spirit, but are not.

[Extra Stout]

tell me something i don't know.
You say you follow Jesus.

Jesus says the whole Law and the Prophets apply.

You don't get to pick and choose the parts you like.

[Phil E.Buster]

WTF does this have to do with the topic?

[bigzak25]

There are spirits which claim to be the Holy Spirit, but are not.


you have a Good point. Satan tried to snatch me when I was saved. He failed....so far. He will put many temptations in my path and I MUST resist. Such is my destiny. Cussing and talking....errr typing too much are two of my final hurdles. I might still fall in the future. But i'll try not to.

[bigzak25]

You say you follow Jesus.

Jesus says the whole Law and the Prophets apply.

You don't get to pick and choose the parts you like.

Sure i do. It's called free will. :tu

[Extra Stout]

Sure i do. It's called free will. :tu
And when you disregard the parts you don't like, it's called sin.

[Extra Stout]

WTF does this have to do with the topic?
You have the power to de-hijack the thread.

So, if King Kong were an albino gorilla, what would be the racial symbolism of that?

[bigzak25]

and we're all sinners? or ARE YOU PERFECT OR SOMETHING?

i'm gonna go ahead and do what I gotta do, and you judge away, okay. :tu

we'll see who gets in. DEAL? I HOPE and PRAY TO SEE YOU THERE!

[Extra Stout]

and we're all sinners? or ARE YOU PERFECT OR SOMETHING?
Are you content with your sin?


i'm gonna go ahead and do what I gotta do, and you judge away, okay. :tu

we'll see who gets in. DEAL? I HOPE and PRAY TO SEE YOU THERE!
Tell you what. Why don't you try to learn some of the basics of the Christian faith before you get back on your forum pulpit and preach at everyone. Your rambling has a lot more in common with 1970's-era Doobie Brothers Jesus Movement "Jesus is My Pal" mantra than actual Christianity.

[bigzak25]

Are you content with your sin?


Tell you what. Why don't you try to learn some of the basics of the Christian faith before you get back on your forum pulpit and preach at everyone. Your rambling has a lot more in common with 1970's-era Doobie Brothers Jesus Movement "Jesus is My Pal" mantra than actual Christianity.


am i content? no. that's why i'm learning and changing.

do i accept the FACT, THAT NO MATTER WHAT, I'LL NEVER BE PERFECT AND ALWAYS BE A SINNER? YES I DO. Do YOU?

Tell you what Stout, i've taken on YOU, 210, Ohgee, and any other challengers...answered EVERY question. So while my knowledge of the Word does need strengthening, forgive me for chuckling while you question my Faith. Now YOU BELIEVE ME, when i tell you, You don't even have the slightest idea with regard to how strong my faith is. You ain't seen nothin yet brother. Patience young learner. :tu

[SA210]

am i content? no. that's why i'm learning and changing.

do i accept the FACT, THAT NO MATTER WHAT, I'LL NEVER BE PERFECT AND ALWAYS BE A SINNER? YES I DO. Do YOU?

Tell you what Stout, i've taken on YOU, 210, Ohgee, and any other challengers...answered EVERY question. So while my knowledge of the Word does need strengthening, forgive me for chuckling while you question my Faith. Now YOU BELIEVE ME, when i tell you, You don't even have the slightest idea with regard to how strong my faith is. You ain't seen nothin yet brother. Patience young learner. :tu
Are you about to get get violent?

[Extra Stout]

You don't even have the slightest idea with regard to how strong my faith is.Great. Now you just need to have faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as He has testified about himself in his Scriptures, and you'll be good to go.

[PakiDan]

I thought this was a POLITICAL forum?????

[bigzak25]

Great. Now you just need to have faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as He has testified about himself in his Scriptures, and you'll be good to go.


Yes. I do. Same God. :tu

[Oh, Gee!!]

Enough Bible talk

[bigzak25]

:lol

[JoeChalupa]

You have the power to de-hijack the thread.

So, if King Kong were an albino gorilla, what would be the racial symbolism of that?

Well, I still see it and I'm stickin' to it.

Oh.....Jesus rocks baby!!

[Uncle Donnie]

I saw the movie yesterday, I believe you will only see racial overtones in this if you want to see them, but that's just my opinion.

Great movie though, easily the best special effects I've seen.

[JoeChalupa]

I saw the movie yesterday, I believe you will only see racial overtones in this if you want to see them, but that's just my opinion.

Great movie though, easily the best special effects I've seen.

In this version I agree..but in my opinion the original made in the 1930's was a different time and race relations were different.
But that is just me. I'll STFU about this now.

I'll be watching the movie and yeah, I won't be thinking about any racial BS but just enjoying the film.

My cheap ass doesn't go to the theatre very often.