Senate rejects reauthorization of Patriot Act

[JoeChalupa]

Senate rejects reauthorization of Patriot Act (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/16/senate.patriot.ap/index.html)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate on Friday rejected attempts to reauthorize several provisions of the USA Patriot Act as infringing too much on Americans' privacy and liberty, dealing a huge defeat to the Bush administration and Republican leaders.

In a crucial vote early Friday, the bill's Senate supporters were not able to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a threatened filibuster by Sens. Russ Feingold, D-Wisconsin, and Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and their allies. The final vote was 52-47.

President Bush, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Republicans congressional leaders had lobbied fiercely to make most of the expiring Patriot Act provisions permanent, and add new safeguards and expiration dates to the two most controversial parts: roving wiretaps and secret warrants for books, records and other items from businesses, hospitals and organizations such as libraries.

Feingold, Craig and other critics said that wasn't enough, and have called for the law to be extended in its present form so they can continue to try and add more civil liberties safeguards. But Bush, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert have said they won't accept a short-term extension of the law.

If a compromise is not reached, the 16 Patriot Act provisions expire on December 31. (Read the provisions that could expire)

~~I'm all for fighting terrorism but civil liberties must be protected.

[Brodels]

:tu It's about freakin' time.

[Duff McCartney]

Not to sound dumb here but that movie The Siege really does have a good quote. Denzel Washingtons character says that what they really want is for us to heard people into stadiums, shred the constitution just a little bit.

I figure the same thing is happening here.

Not to mention that my sig is perfect for a situation here.

[JoeChalupa]

And this is not a "liberal un-patriotic" filibuster.

[xrayzebra]

And this is not a "liberal un-patriotic" filibuster.

No it all about stupidity. How many attacks have we had in this country?
Or does common sense allude you?

[JoeChalupa]

No it all about stupidity. How many attacks have we had in this country?
Or does common sense allude you?

You are right, I was tired of daily terrorists attacks here in the US. Damn, it wasn't safe to even go out at night. Now, thanks to the Patriot Act, I can sleep at night. :rolleyes

Well, I'm glad some in congress have common sense.

[xrayzebra]

You are right, I was tired of daily terrorists attacks here in the US. Damn, it wasn't safe to even go out at night. Now, thanks to the Patriot Act, I can sleep at night. :rolleyes

Well, I'm glad some in congress have common sense.

You wont have to worry about it after December 31st, Joe. Rest in Peace.
I hope I am wrong, about the RIP.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You wont have to worry about it after December 31st, Joe. Rest in Peace.
I hope I am wrong, about the RIP.


What do you know Xray? You have to tell the authorities what you know. You know the NSA can pull an IP check on you and have all of the 3-letter agencies at your front door in minutes. Spill it, Xray.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

No it all about stupidity. How many attacks have we had in this country?
Or does common sense allude you?


That argument is weaker than the Democrat congressmen's spines.

If we don't have an attack, you use it as justification for the measures we've taken. If we do have an attack, you'll use it as justification for more extreme measures than what we've taken.

I swear, Bush could write a book called "My Struggle", and you would read it and love it, and worship by it.

[xrayzebra]

What do you know Xray? You have to tell the authorities what you know. You know the NSA can pull an IP check on you and have all of the 3-letter agencies at your front door in minutes. Spill it, Xray.

Well, if we restrict the intel agencies from gathering intel, then you better
duck, my red faced foe. I am quite sure NSA, FBI and many other federal
agencies have a file on me, and know where to contact me. Want to give
me your address? :angel

[SA210]

You wont have to worry about it after December 31st, Joe. Rest in Peace.
I hope I am wrong, about the RIP.
What's gonna happen? Is this that millenium crap again? I better buy water and a flashlight.

[Phil E.Buster]

What's gonna happen? Is this that millenium crap again? I better buy water and a flashlight.

Don't forget the duct tape.

[xrayzebra]

What's gonna happen? Is this that millenium crap again? I better buy water and a flashlight.


No, no crap. But you have to know your enemy. And you really cant
unless you can read their mail. I don't know what will happen, but I
do know what has happened in the past. Or is your memory that short. :depressed

[SA210]

No, no crap. But you have to know your enemy. And you really cant
unless you can read their mail. I don't know what will happen, but I
do know what has happened in the past. Or is your memory that short. :depressed

Is Bush gonna bomb the wrong country again? So what else is new?

[SA210]

Don't forget the duct tape.
Oh snap, thanks Phil.

[Phil E.Buster]

I can guarantee that there will be another terrorists attack on US soil and all the intelligence snooping the Patriot Act excuses will NOT deter the terrorists.

[xrayzebra]

Is Bush gonna bomb the wrong country again? So what else is new?

Oh, I don't know. You mean like an aspirin factory when someone is
talking about your sex life? You are our enemies best friend. I know
you support our troops, but just don't like our President. What a bunch
of crap.

[SA210]

Hey, I said I wanna support Bush. Just lend me some of those rose colored glasses, so i can see this war the way u do.

[xrayzebra]

Hey, I said I wanna support Bush. Just lend me some of those rose clored glasses, so i can see this war the way u do.

It's called good old American patriotism. Bush is commander-in-chief.
He leads the country. We are at war. We were when Clinton was
President, only no one knew it, except his administration. Yes, we may,
and I emphasize MAY, have had some faulty intel, but it wasn't Bush's
fault, he took over from Clinton. He also relied on other countries intel.
Our Congress supported him through their resolution. The UN supported
him in their Intel. For goodness sakes, any one who reads the news
and listens to newscast on the run-up to the Iraq invasion to know what
was going on. How come Saddam wouldn't let anyone in to inspect the
places. Wanted to play gotcha, I don't think so.

[SA210]

It's called good old American patriotism. Bush is commander-in-chief.
He leads the country. We are at war. .
He lead our country into war. His war.

[DarkReign]

It's called good old American patriotism. Bush is commander-in-chief.
He leads the country. We are at war. We were when Clinton was
President, only no one knew it, except his administration. Yes, we may,
and I emphasize MAY, have had some faulty intel, but it wasn't Bush's
fault, he took over from Clinton. He also relied on other countries intel.
Our Congress supported him through their resolution. The UN supported
him in their Intel. For goodness sakes, any one who reads the news
and listens to newscast on the run-up to the Iraq invasion to know what
was going on. How come Saddam wouldn't let anyone in to inspect the
places. Wanted to play gotcha, I don't think so.

HAHAHAHAAA!

Blame it on Clinton...thats so unlike a Conservative to do that.

When was W elected? O...6 years ago.

Whoooooops!

[xrayzebra]

He lead our country into war. His war.

Same old crap you always spew. It is OUR war dummy. Your hate for
our country and President always shows. If it were Clinton's war, you
would be all for it. Damn, why I try and converse with you is beyond
me. I am really upset with your continual denial of the facts.

[SA210]

Same old crap you always spew. It is OUR war dummy. Your hate for
our country and President always shows. If it were Clinton's war, you
would be all for it. Damn, why I try and converse with you is beyond
me. I am really upset with your continual denial of the facts.

:lmao :lmao actually, I'm not much for anyone's war, so don't bring up Clinton, (get over the blow job already)

Yes, I really hate my country :rolleyes

This is the same old crap that u conservatives spew for lack of acceptance of accountability. Once and for all, show me in any of my posts that suggest that I hate America. You can't. I see deficiencies in our government and question them, because i'm interested in the best country that we can put forth.

That's exactly why I say u spin everything, because that's what u just did again. Calling Bush what he is "a Liar" doesn't mean i hate my country and doesn't mean i'm against our troops.

Unless that's what it meant back when yall were calling Clinton a liar. If yall were traitors for that, then u can call me one. But since hell isn't gonna freeze over on that, get real.

[JoeChalupa]

Same old crap you always spew. It is OUR war dummy. Your hate for
our country and President always shows. If it were Clinton's war, you
would be all for it. Damn, why I try and converse with you is beyond
me. I am really upset with your continual denial of the facts.

I get really upset with that "hate your country" crap conservatives spew everytime somebody speaks out. It is our DUTY to speak out against the government when we disagree that is why freedom of speech is so freakin' important!!
That just bites me ass so much it makes my cuticles hurt!!! :cuss

I love my Country and served proudly and I'll be damned if I will allow anyone to question my patriotism and I'll also be damned if somebody thinks I'm going to blindly follow or President. Damn right I respect our Commander in Chief but it doesn't mean I have to worship every word that comes out of his pie hole!

[SA210]

Joe, how dare u use facts. Don't u know the country is at war? Some would say your against our precious troops for practicing your 1st ammenndment rights.

[FromWayDowntown]

Like I always say, if you can manufacture a war, you should pretty much be able to ignore the Constitution.

The Patroit Act's infringement on Constitutional rights is frightening. I'm glad that the Senate can see that. I'm not sold on the idea that the Patriot Act has deterred any planned terrorist attacks and I'm not convinced that the unending application of that Act would forever deter any attacks.

Frankly, I'd rather live under fear of terrorist attack but have my civil liberties reasonably protected than live in a country where the government disregards civil liberties in the guise of protecting me from attacks. That's a price of freedom, after all -- a willingness to forego freedom for the sake of security is still a deprivation of freedom. Forsaking liberties in the guise of protecting against attack is decidedly un-American in my estimation; supporting legislation that infringes on important liberties in the guise of protectionism strikes me as inherently unpatriotic.

[Yonivore]

The subject line of this thread is misleading...the Senate only failed to garner enough votes to force cloture and overcome a threatened filibuster by the stupid Democrats.

It ain't over yet.

[xrayzebra]

^^ for the three last post. Yep, you do support the enemy more than you
support the country in which you live. Civil liberties my foot. Who in the world
gave you those liberties? It wasn't the dimm-o-craps. It was the GI's. It is
also the GI's that wished you would support our government. Make fun, but don't
ignore the fact that the blow job king of the USA did nothing, absolutely nothing,
except smile, let his chin quiver, and call Jesse for counseling. Oh, he did get a
three hundred dollar haircut and tie up an airport for three hours. He also let the
GI's down in Somalia and elsewhere. There has been no infringement on the
constitution in any way, shape or fashion. Live in your little world. I just hope
you have no children to follow. I do feel for you, as Clinton said: I feel your pain.
Most on this board are younger than me. You are going to have to reap what
you sow. Poke your fun, but you have no idea of what you speak, I do. I lived
thru the second world war, Korean War and Viet Nam. Served thru two of those.
Wars and still am proud of my country, refuse to let those of you who put us down
on dumb issues to prevail. I know we will win what we started, because we are
something you wouldn't know about, a people who will not let those who want to
destroy us because of our beliefs.we will and have stopped those who have tried in
the past. Why you have let some political party influence you is beyond me. But you
have. I will not let you trash our Government or a President who is trying his best to
save you and your families.

[exstatic]

The thing about the Patriot act is...we didn't need it. We NEVER needed it. All we needed was for the intel agencies to
a) stop their fucking turf wars.
b) pull their heads out of their asses.

That gal from the FBI was just IGNORED when she tried to tell her bosses about the Middle Easterners flocking to flight schools, and only wanting to learn to fly planes, not take off or land them.

[mookie2001]

^^ for the three last post. Yep, you do support the enemy more than you
support the country in which you live. Civil liberties my foot. Who in the world
gave you those liberties? It wasn't the dimm-o-craps. It was the GI's. It is
also the GI's that wished you would support our government. Make fun, but don't
ignore the fact that the blow job king of the USA did nothing, absolutely nothing,
except smile, let his chin quiver, and call Jesse for counseling. Oh, he did get a
three hundred dollar haircut and tie up an airport for three hours. He also let the
GI's down in Somalia and elsewhere. There has been no infringement on the
constitution in any way, shape or fashion. Live in your little world. I just hope
you have no children to follow. I do feel for you, as Clinton said: I feel your pain.
Most on this board are younger than me. You are going to have to reap what
you sow. Poke your fun, but you have no idea of what you speak, I do. I lived
thru the second world war, Korean War and Viet Nam. Served thru two of those.
Wars and still am proud of my country, refuse to let those of you who put us down
on dumb issues to prevail. I know we will win what we started, because we are
something you wouldn't know about, a people who will not let those who want to
destroy us because of our beliefs.we will and have stopped those who have tried in
the past. Why you have let some political party influence you is beyond me. But you
have. I will not let you trash our Government or a President who is trying his best to
save you and your families.^speaking FOR the Patriot Act

[Yonivore]

i LIKE the idea of pre-emptive war

it has historical precedents....like........when.................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............................
...Israel saved it's own bacon in the six-days war.

You're welcome.

[Phil E.Buster]

The subject line of this thread is misleading...the Senate only failed to garner enough votes to force cloture and overcome a threatened filibuster by the stupid Democrats.

It ain't over yet.

Which is why is was rejected.

[Dos]

premptive strike .. what was the bay of pigs...

[Dos]

an attempt to overthrow a up and coming dictator... by you guessed it.... JFK...

[Dos]

fracking democraps need to learn history....

Would a U.S. unilateral invasion of Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein mark a radical break in US foreign policy? In a recent Reuters article titled "Iraq Invasion Would Reshape US Foreign Policy," reporter Alan Elsner argues that launching aggressive first strikes against potential future threats marks a stark change from the U.S. Cold War doctrine of deterrence and containment
In a speech made at West Point in June this year, President Bush outlined his plans for a pre-emptive strike doctrine. He said: "Our security will require all Americans to be forward-looking and resolute, to be ready for preemptive action when necessary to defend our liberty and to defend our lives."

What impact will Bush's preemptive strike doctrine have on foreign policy and US relations with the UN, and other nations? How does it compare to Washington's plans against Cuba a generation ago?

In October 1962, Washington pushed the world to the brink of nuclear war, in what is known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. The events brought to a head the ongoing attempts by the US to overthrow the Cuban government.

At a White House meeting on November 3, 1961, Kennedy authorized the development of a new program designed to destroy the Cuban Revolution. The project was code-named Operation Mongoose.

[Nbadan]

an attempt to overthrow a up and coming dictator... by you guessed it.... JFK...

:rolleyes

The Bay of Pigs was CIA/Bush41. Unlike W, JFK recognized he was being mislead and failed to provide air-support for the 'discedent' led invasion. How many naturalized Iraqis participated in the US led invasion of Baghdad again?

[Nbadan]

..and it was President Eisenhower, not Kennedy who FIRST approved a CIA plan to overthrow Castro...


n March I960, President Dwight Eisenhower of the United States approved a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) plan to overthrow Fidel Castro. The plan involved a budget of $13 million to train "a paramilitary force outside Cuba for guerrilla action." The strategy was organised by Richard Bissell and Richard Helms.

Operation Mongoose (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmongoose.htm)

[Nbadan]

At a meeting of this committee at the White House on 4th November, 1961, it was decided to call this covert action program for sabotage and subversion against Cuba, Operation Mongoose.

The SGA, or Special Group Augmented, didn't mislead the nation to war, nor propose a U.S. led pre-emptive strike against Castro, in fact, among some of the committee's more brilliant ideas was to spray a television studio in which Castro was about to appear with an hallucinogenic drug and contaminating his shoes with thallium which they believed would cause the hair in his beard to fall out.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

...Israel saved it's own bacon in the six-days war.

You're welcome.


The Six Day war is the model case for a justified pre-emptive attack. Coincidentally, it is also the ONLY widely accepted justified pre-emptive attack.

[Dos]

this is too easy...

Operation Mongoose
The policy assessment initiated in May 1961 led in November of that year to a decision to implement a new covert program to undermine and overthrow the Castro government in Cuba. This program was codenamed Operation Mongoose and much of the remainder of the volume after November 1961 is devoted to documenting Operation Mongoose. Oversight for Operation Mongoose was provided by the 5412/Special Group expanded to include General Taylor and Attorney General Kennedy. Planning for Operation Mongoose was given additional impetus in the spring of 1962 by reports of expanded arms shipments from the Soviet Union to Cuba.

In November 1961 Kennedy approved Operation Mongoose, a secret plan aimed at stimulating a rebellion in Cuba that the United States could support. From November 1961 to October 1962 a Special Group (Augmented), whose membership was the same as the Special Group plus Attorney General Robert Kennedy and General Taylor (as Chairman), exercised responsibility for Operation Mongoose, a major covert action program aimed at overthrowing the Castro regime in Cuba. When President Kennedy authorized the program in November, he designated Brigadier General Edward G. Lansdale, Assistant for Special Operations to the Secretary of Defense, to act as chief of operations, and Lansdale coordinated the Mongoose activities among the CIA and the Departments of State and Defense. CIA units in Washington and Miami had primary responsibility for implementing Mongoose operations, which included military, sabotage, and political propaganda programs.

Bill Harvey was a legend in the Clandestine Service by this time. He had been in Berlin when the Berlin Tunnel was built to tap into Soviet communication lines in East Berlin, and he was picked to head Operation Mongoose, the attempt to undermine Fidel Castro's regime.

[Yonivore]

The Six Day war is the model case for a justified pre-emptive attack. Coincidentally, it is also the ONLY widely accepted justified pre-emptive attack.
Funny how the U.N. had a "solidarity with Palestine" celebration the other day and allowed a map to be displayed that omitted a U.N. member country -- Israel. Widely accepted? It appears that not even the U.N. believes Israel has a right to exist.

Actually, the current pre-emptive action is similarly accepted by most of the world -- if you count out the Left, France, and Kofi Annan.

Even the Iraqis are behind it.

But, really, I was just finishing the sentence for the guy. We've already argued -- to death -- the legitimacy/illegitimacy of the war in Iraq in countless other threads; why continue here?

[JoeChalupa]

So then you agree that any Country has the right to pre-emptive strike?

[Yonivore]

So then you agree that any Country has the right to pre-emptive strike?
Yep. Well, more like the opportunity to act pre-emptively. Of course, you have to be able to articulate what you're pre-empting. Victory or defeat will determine whether you were right or wrong.

If we lose in Iraq, the United States will be villified (even more than we are now). If we win, the United States will be lionized by all (but the Left, of course.)

[JoeChalupa]

Every war is won before it is fought.

Articulate? HOw hard is it to articulate "We are attacking first!"?

Victory or defeat does not always determin whether you were right or wrong. I'm sure many Germans thought Hitler was right because they had victory.

Victory in Iraq is not as simple as "win" or "lose" in my opinion. We may win the "war" but will we win the battle? I hope and pray that the Iraqi people succeed in their new government but I see a real possibility of a civil war if things do not go as planned.

Only time will tell.

[JoeChalupa]

And stop the "left" crap already. I'm just as proud and love my Country just as much as anyone on the "right". And my liberal left ass has SERVED my Country.

Enough said.

[Yonivore]

And stop the "left" crap already. I'm just as proud and love my Country just as much as anyone on the "right". And my liberal left ass has SERVED my Country.

Enough said.
Yep. You've done your duty...now, you feel like you have the right to drag our current soldiers down by opposing their mission. Got it.

[SA210]

Yep. You've done your duty...now, you feel like you have the right to drag our current soldiers down by opposing their mission. Got it.

Here we go again with the "your against the troops" crap. Your "Commander in Chief" sent them on this mission. It's His mision.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_we-werent-soldiers.jpg

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm just waiting for someone to enumerate what civil liberties the government is infringing on in all of our lives.

Waiting longer at the airport to get through security and having to take off your shoes <> civil liberties.

[mookie2001]

I'm just waiting for someone to enumerate what civil liberties the government is infringing on in all of our lives.
speaking FOR, the Patriot Act?
my life
not many
but thats the lamest arguement ive ever heard
you want me as the mayor of Inez Texas to pass a law saying i can kick people in the nuts
no, that would be unlawful
if you were a chick in didnt have nuts would it still be ok?
what if you lived in Telfener Texas?

under the patriot act
rights as in rights
due process/speedy trial
illegal search and seizure
the right to privacy that has been granted to americans by legislation

just to be assholes
right to assemble
freedom of the press

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Funny how the U.N. had a "solidarity with Palestine" celebration the other day and allowed a map to be displayed that omitted a U.N. member country -- Israel. Widely accepted? It appears that not even the U.N. believes Israel has a right to exist.

Actually, the current pre-emptive action is similarly accepted by most of the world -- if you count out the Left, France, and Kofi Annan.

Even the Iraqis are behind it.

But, really, I was just finishing the sentence for the guy. We've already argued -- to death -- the legitimacy/illegitimacy of the war in Iraq in countless other threads; why continue here?

The UN does not recognize Israel? That's news to me.

I was just saying the only thing closest to a model justified preemptive war was that one, and its funny how no other preemptive attack has been widely considered justified but that one.

Like you said, 'if you count of the left, france, kofi, etc'
I'm not saying we should argue over if Iraq is justified or not but one thing we can both say is that its not widely accepted to be justified.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

In other news, I had the biggest smile and feeling of relief, as well as a long-lost feeling of satisifcation and pride for my country's leaders when I was in the drive through for McDonalds and saw the headline

"Senate crushes Patriot Act"

Totally awesome. It is a great day to be an American. :tu

[ChumpDumper]

Was there like a hole cut out of the map where Israel should have been?

[mookie2001]

there was a hole in whottts chode from chump owning him so bad


where the hell have whottt and clandestino been?
its like playing cbf in tiger woods without them
...just too easy

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

illegal search and seizure
the right to privacy that has been granted to americans by legislation

mookie, you realize that everything in the Patriot Act can be facilitated by someone going and getting a warrant right? If the FBI has its eyes on you for terrorist plots, etc., they can do the same shit as what's in the Patriot Act with warrants.

All the PA does is bypass the paperwork and red tape that has fucked things up before.

[ED dos o cientos nueve]

mookie, you realize that everything in the Patriot Act can be facilitated by someone going and getting a warrant right? If the FBI has its eyes on you for terrorist plots, etc., they can do the same shit as what's in the Patriot Act with warrants.

All the PA does is bypass the paperwork and red tape that has fucked things up before.


So, essentially it bypasses the processes by which our nation found its identity?

[mookie2001]

mookie, you realize that everything in the Patriot Act can be facilitated by someone going and getting a warrant right? If the FBI has its eyes on you for terrorist plots, etc., they can do the same shit as what's in the Patriot Act with warrants.

All the PA does is bypass the paperwork and red tape that has fucked things up before.yes thus transforming the searches and seizures from Ilegal, nonlegal, dislegal, to Legal

[SA210]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_liberty_justice.jpg

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

it bypasses the processes by which our nation found its identity

I don't think our country was founded on bureaucratic red tape.

Probably wasn't planning on Islamofascists trying to kill us all either.

[Dos]

yes the NSA is spying on everyone .. thats why we have those huge detention camps for people wanting to express their distrust of the govt. sheeeesh.. I think the only people that have to worry about this crap are the terrorist..

oh yeah and way to go NYT's .. I wonder how many terrorist you just help change their plans of communications... I wonder how many FBI investigations you just blew...

[mookie2001]

I don't think our country was founded on bureaucratic red tape.
the United States Constitution

[SA210]

yeah!

way to go new york times!
way to tell the truth!

way to let the terrorrorrorrorrorrists know that U.S. Intelligence agencies are spying!

awww my pussy hurts the newspapers are printing stuff the president does!

Therefore the terrorists win.

[ChumpDumper]

yes the NSA is spying on everyone .. thats why we have those huge detention camps for people wanting to express their distrust of the govt. sheeeesh.. I think the only people that have to worry about this crap are the terrorist..Well a group at a Quaker meeting house in Florida planning protests against military recruitment at high schools was listed as a "threat" by the Pentagon -- you tell me what that's all about.

[Dos]

and who got arrested at that quaker meeting.... did anybody wind up jail.. did anybody wind up dead?

hell the govt. killed about 80 innocent americans at waco.. and the left was pretty
silent about their civil rights... sheesh not to defend those idiot davidians.. but it should been handled better...

yes the terrorist are winning.. I have to go through all these illegal searches just to get to HEB ... pleaseeee... some people are too paranoid.... about our security..

[Guru of Nothing]

and who got arrested at that quaker meeting.... did anybody wind up jail.. did anybody wind up dead?

hell the govt. killed about 80 innocent americans at waco.. and the left was pretty
silent about their civil rights... sheesh not to defend those idiot davidians.. but it should been handled better...

yes the terrorist are winning.. I have to go through all these illegal searches just to get to HEB ... pleaseeee... some people are too paranoid.... about our security..

Frog meet pot ... Are you cold?

[exstatic]

Frog meet pot ... Are you cold?

Fucking classic.

For any of you who don't get the reference, which is probably most of you Busheviks, the way to boil a frog is not to dump him into a pot of hot water. He'll hop out. You put him into a pot of cold water, and gradually increase the temperature, slowly so that he doesn't realize what is happening until it is too late. Sounds a lot like what the "Patriot" act was doing to our liberties. I like the red tape.

[Dos]

eh learn a little history why don't you....

Have we gone too far to defend the nation?

What happens if we don't go far enough?

Those are the questions that haunted Lincoln, Roosevelt, Adams and others who stretched the U.S. Constitution in the nation's defense.

"Civil liberties are always most endangered during wartime and there does seem to be a greater tendency to look for and find domestic and internal enemies during wartime," said Marc Kruman, chairman of history and director of the Center for the Study of Citizenship at Wayne State University in Detroit.

Lincoln suspended the right of habeas corpus - the guarantee against being held indefinitely without being charged with a crime - during the Civil War, arousing opposition throughout the country. In one case, he ignored the order of Chief Justice Roger Taney to grant a writ to a Southern agitator who had been jailed by military authorities in Maryland.

Fearing war with the French, Adams approved the Alien and Sedition Acts, which, among other things, prohibited people from speaking against the government.

Franklin Roosevelt ordered the internment of Japanese-Americans in camps during World War II.

[Trainwreck2100]

Glad I don't have to worry about my mailman spying on me while I'm looking at my porn collection.

[TheGreatYacht]

Congress Quietly Unites To Extend "Temporary" Patriot Act Under Cover Of The Impeachment Distraction

https://youtu.be/q_r0ba-iEus

[koriwhat]

Congress Quietly Unites To Extend "Temporary" Patriot Act Under Cover Of The Impeachment Distraction

https://youtu.be/q_r0ba-iEus

this was exactly one of their motives no doubt.

[TheGreatYacht]

this was exactly one of their motives no doubt.

Senate Passes & Trump Quietly Signs Into Law Patriot Act Extension That Almost No Americans Support

https://youtu.be/P4D-Vu7ziyA

[koriwhat]

Senate Passes & Trump Quietly Signs Into Law Patriot Act Extension That Almost No Americans Support

https://youtu.be/P4D-Vu7ziyA

yeah it's fucked up but so is thinking the swamp would ever really be drained... not in my lifetime!

[ElNono]

yeah it's fucked up but so is thinking the swamp would ever really be drained... not in my lifetime!

Trump = Swamp

[TheGreatYacht]

Democrats Reauthorize Patriot Act Instead Of Taking A Stand

https://youtu.be/pEN-93kFY3U

[TheGreatYacht]

Dems Quietly Give Trump Spying Powers w/Patriot Act Renewal

https://youtu.be/ix-DeInV_II

[Spurtacular]

Dems Quietly Give Trump Spying Powers w/Patriot Act Renewal

https://youtu.be/ix-DeInV_II

:lol "give Trump"

They're giving the NSA, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security power to fuck over Trump. Trump should've vetoed that sh**.

[ElNono]

:lol "give Trump"

They're giving the NSA, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security power to fuck over Trump. Trump should've vetoed that sh**.

Those are all executive branch entities. Trump can end them tomorrow if he so desires. But of course, he doesn't.

[Spurtacular]

Those are all executive branch entities. Trump can end them tomorrow if he so desires. But of course, he doesn't.

Yea, he can snap his fingers and they'll all be over.

:lmao

[ElNono]

Yea, he can snap his fingers and they'll all be over.

:lmao

:lol really? You can't be this ignorant about the Constitution and the executive branch. Yeah, he can end them tomorrow if he so chooses.

That's the one branch of government that he has full control over.

[Spurtacular]

:lol really? You can't be this ignorant about the Constitution and the executive branch. Yeah, he can end them tomorrow if he so chooses.

That's the one branch of government that he has full control over.

You're ignorant of how shit has been working. There would be eight million lawsuits, which would include court ordered stays of execution.

[ElNono]

You're ignorant of how shit has been working. There would be eight million lawsuits, which would include court ordered stays of execution.

So he's not doing it because he'll get sued? :lol like that has stopped him before.

And honestly, no. One thing is trying to pass legislation through executive order, which is what's he's been sued on. Reorganizing the executive branch is exclusive to the executive.

Much like when Dubya created the DHS, and absorbed the INS with it, there's really nothing stopping him from doing it. Other than the fact tat he's part of that swamp.

[Spurtacular]

So he's not doing it because he'll get sued? :lol

He's not doing it because he's not a revolutionary, not in that type of capacity at any rate. TBF, he didn't campaign on that. The guy that did was Ron Paul, and the media buried him.

[Spurtacular]

Much like when Dubya created the DHS, and absorbed the INS with it, there's really nothing stopping him from doing it. Other than the fact tat he's part of that swamp.

I don't know what you think W creating more centralize power proves, tbh.

[ElNono]

He's not doing it because he's not a revolutionary, not in that type of capacity at any rate. TBF, he didn't campaign on that. The guy that did was Ron Paul, and the media buried him.

Oh no? What was draining the swamp all about?


I don't know what you think W creating more centralize power proves, tbh.

It proves the executive has the authority to create, modify and disband such executive posts. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Spurtacular]

Oh no? What was draining the swamp all about?

You think drain the swamp referred to disbanding all those agencies?

Geez, even spurraider21 often refrains from philo'ing that hard.

You're really desperate, dude.

[Nathan89]

Patriot Act follows the same logic that leftists march the streets for tbh. I'm not sure why they wouldn't support it.

[ElNono]

You think drain the swamp referred to disbanding all those agencies?

Geez, even spurraider21 often refrains from philo'ing that hard.

You're really desperate, dude.

You tell me in your own words what draining the swamp in DC meant. Is the 'deep state' you often mention part of the swamp or not?

I'm trying to figure out the mental gymnastics you guys go through to detach Dear Leader from the shit he enables all the time, tbh... (see: Patriot Act above)

[ElNono]

Patriot Act follows the same logic that leftists march the streets for tbh. I'm not sure why they wouldn't support it.

The Patriot Act is one piece of legislation that both Dems and GOP have no problem reaching across the aisle to pass, tbh.

[spurraider21]

You think drain the swamp referred to disbanding all those agencies?

Geez, even spurraider21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=31905) often refrains from philo'ing that hard.

You're really desperate, dude.
:lol trumpette didnt pay attention in his 9th grade civics class

[Spurtacular]

You tell me in your own words what draining the swamp in DC meant. Is the 'deep state' you often mention part of the swamp or not?

I'm trying to figure out the mental gymnastics you guys go through to detach Dear Leader from the shit he enables all the time, tbh... (see: Patriot Act above)

That's a nice side step into something else. No fucking way you thought drain the swamp meant disbanding agencies.

"Mental gymnastics" - Look in the fucking mirror.

[ElNono]

That's a nice side step into something else. No fucking way you thought drain the swamp meant disbanding agencies.

"Mental gymnastics" - Look in the fucking mirror.

Hey, it's not me having to come up with excuses for the moron.

You keep dodging the question. What do you think he meant by draining the swamp. I'm not even asking you if he did or not, I'm asking what do you think he meant. Was the famed 'deep state' in the plans too?

[ElNono]

Are the NSA, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security part of the deep state? I wanna hear what you think here.

[Winehole23]

Patriot Act follows the same logic that leftists march the streets for tbh. I'm not sure why they wouldn't support it.Do you support it?

For the record, I think it should be fully repealed

[Winehole23]

Are the NSA, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security part of the deep state? I wanna hear what you think here.Spurtacular doesn't t give own takes, he just nitpicks others.'