Word from WFAN New York: Artest to Spurs Strong Possibility

[td4mvp21]

Why when Indiana wants Oberto and Barry would you trade Ginobili?

And why would "spursfans" love that?

Because there would be way too much talent to get the shots around. Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan is already a bunch as it is (and they manage pretty well together, all are very unselfish for the most part) and then add Artest with Finley and our bench, thats too much talent for the ball to go around. But definitely don't misinterpret me, I do NOT want Artest on this team.

And the fans would hate it, everyone is in love with Parker and Ginobili.

[smeagol]

Why would we have to trade Manu if they will take spare parts for Artest? Why pick one when we could have both? Weak take.
What's weak is you tinking Artest is better than Parker and Ginobili and then saying Indiana will accept Nazr+Barry in a trade for Ron ron

[jman3000]

I would never include Manu or TP in a trade for Artest, but the argument that he is a cancer has been overdone in my opinion. There have been many times that the Spurs have picked up a supposed "cancer" and things worked out. Glenn Robinson, Ron Mercer (at least until he wanted out for more pt, but it was all professional) and Nick X to name a few. 70% of me wants the team as it is for chemistry reasons and 30% of me wants him to come just to see the possiblities if he behaves himself and is willing to come off the bench. Having 4 all NBA defensive team type players is a luxury that I don't think any team in NBA history has been awarded (I may be wrong). In all honesty though, the chances of him coming are very small and the chances that he wouldn't be some kind of disturbance is even smaller.

[ChumpDumper]

the argument that he is a cancer has been overdone in my opinion.He's ruined the championship aspirations of a very good team two years in a row. I don't know how that can be overstated.

[jman3000]

He's ruined the championship aspirations of a very good team two years in a row. I don't know how that can be overstated.

I guess I meant his influence as a cancer on the Spurs. I should of said his impact as a cancer on the Spurs. I also said I really don't want him here, but for the sake of the potential to add an all league talent to an already loaded squad, it's totally a curiosity, not a wish. But then again, curiosity did kill the cat.

[Bruno]

I would never include Manu or TP in a trade for Artest, but the argument that he is a cancer has been overdone in my opinion. There have been many times that the Spurs have picked up a supposed "cancer" and things worked out. Glenn Robinson, Ron Mercer (at least until he wanted out for more pt, but it was all professional) and Nick X to name a few.

You can't compare NVE, Big Dog with Artest.
Big Dog was a $200k gamble over 3 month.
NVE is a $700k gamble over 1 year.
Artest is a $30M gamble over 4 years.
If you add that Artest is way more psycho than these guys, it's a very risky move.
As said before, if Artest was expiring, yes. but no with his contract. I don't see Spurs front office ready to bet so much money.
If Artest ruins the chemistry, we can't waive him contrary to NVE, Big Dog and Mercer.

[ducks]

pacers are fighting among themselves without reggie
pacers need to get rid of either tinsley,jackson,oneal or ron
they are all to high strung players to play on the same team
ron may be helping them win a championship or atleast getting back to becoming a contender with getting rid of ron if they get anytalent back

it was not completly ron's fault that jackson and oneal went into the stands
it was ron's fault that he went crazy but jackson and oneal did that on their own

[Frenchise player]

If the Spurs want to trade for Artest, what are they going to offer?

The Pacers want a pairing of either a promising young player, an expiring contract or a player who can help to win now.

The Spurs don't have a promising young player (Beno isn't playing, Oberto is 30 years old)
The Spurs do have an expiring contract with Nazr but it won't be enough.
The players who can help the Pacers win now without Artest are Manu, Parker, Duncan and Bowen.
Duncan will never be traded.
Parker is the futur of the Spurs.
Manu could be the guy? Just watch some tapes of the last playoffs and any Spurs fan should see him as untradable.
I think that the best shot will be to trade Bowen. I think that a guy like Bird won't underestimate what Bowen brings to the table and he could be a very good replacement for Artest.
We should probably throw in Oberto and maybee even Finley.
Will Pop and RC do it? I don't think it is too out of mind. It remembers a little what happened in that Rose for Nazr trade last year. Sure Bowen is a lot better than Malik was but so is Artest and Nazr.

[Man In Black]

You know when I see Ronnie...I think Roy Tarpley or Michael Ray Richardson all over again, except in this case Ronnie don't need the rock cocaine to go crazy, he pretty much can do that all on his own.

[Streakyshooter08]

The only way to make Indiana THINK about the trade is to offer Manu. No chance they Pacers would give SA another quality player just for Barry/Oberto or Nazr...

I wonder when the Trade will go down and who Indiana will trade with...

[Useruser666]

There is no way on earth the Pacers would trade Artest to the Spurs, unless it was for Tim Duncan. And that's plain stupid.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I don't think the Pacers are dumb enough to trade Artest to a title contender unless the deal is too good for them to pass up(i.e.Ginobili)...

Why would they give him a shot at a ring with the way he's disrupted their organization?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What's weak is you tinking Artest is better than Parker and Ginobili and then saying Indiana will accept Nazr+Barry in a trade for Ron ron


What's weak is not being able to look at another team (Indiana) and recognize their needs, strengths, and weaknesses.

But that's typical for the majority of this board.

Indiana needs inside depth (Nazr). They need a reliable point guard (Beno). And they need a shooting guard (Barry).

They can take care of all their needs with one trade.

[Kori Ellis]

What's weak is not being able to look at another team (Indiana) and recognize their needs, strengths, and weaknesses.

But that's typical for the majority of this board.

Indiana needs inside depth (Nazr). They need a reliable point guard (Beno). And they need a shooting guard (Barry).

They can take care of all their needs with one trade.

Who else would the Spurs take back from Indiana? Because Barry+Nazr+Beno is about 11M, right?

Also, they've been offered ALL-STARS for Artest. Why would they take scrubs?

[ChumpDumper]

I might buy the Nazr argument even though Foster has come back and Croshere has been decent, but Beno isn't going to supplant any of their three point guards and I'm not sure Barry is going to get them too excited as a starting SG -- I mean this is 38 minutes and 19 ppg they're looking to replace, to say nothing of the defense. Is this really the closest Walsh could come to equal value? Especially if another deal could take a deal like Croshere's off his hands?

[smeagol]

What's weak is not being able to look at another team (Indiana) and recognize their needs, strengths, and weaknesses.

But that's typical for the majority of this board.

Indiana needs inside depth (Nazr). They need a reliable point guard (Beno). And they need a shooting guard (Barry).

They can take care of all their needs with one trade.
The fact that only TPark agrees with you speaks volumes

[FromWayDowntown]

Who else would the Spurs take back from Indiana? Because Barry+Nazr+Beno is about 11M, right?

Also, they've been offered ALL-STARS for Artest. Why would they take scrubs?

That's what I don't get. If it's true that the Pacers can deal Artest for guys with All-Star credentials -- I've read rumors of Marbury and Carter -- or for young, talented guys -- Al Harrington's name surfaces -- why on Earth would they deal for a group of 30-somethings. I could see it if they thought they were a couple of role players away from a title run, but I don't see that they can deal Artest AND remain only a couple of role players short.

If I was a Pacers' fan and Walsh dealt Artest to the Spurs for the back-end of the Spurs' bench, I'd be bent. If he's not going to bring back talent-for-talent, then he needs to at least bring in role players with attractive contracts, but neither Oberto nor Barry fits that characterization, either. Unless every other rumor is just plain wrong, the Spurs' ostensible offer is pretty weak in that market.

[baseline bum]

You get him on the Spurs and show him how to be a professional and I am telling you that he will be fine.

He is begging for a fresh start and a place to win.

What? A 62-win team wasn't enough for him?

[Despot]

What are some good sports websites to check out trade rumors?? Of course ESPN takes the weekend off when it comes to reporting rumors.

[wildbill2u]

It's not as though the Spurs are desperate for a trade--or am I missing something? Spurs lead the league at 18-4.

And if we wanted Artest badly enough to make a trade, allowing for the possibility he might crash and burn as a locker room personality, isn't Manu the only Spur of comparable value? All-star for All-star?

I bet the Spurs make more money off of Manu T-shirts and memorabilia in Latin American countries than his salary. He's an untradeable asset for that reason alone.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

Artest to the Spurs?

Smells like bullshit to me.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Who else would the Spurs take back from Indiana? Because Barry+Nazr+Beno is about 11M, right?


Foster? Also, isn't Reggie's salary still on the books this year? For some reason I was thinking it was.

Also, they've been offered ALL-STARS for Artest. Why would they take scrubs?[/quote]

I don't buy the All-Star rumors. That's Walsh trying to sweeten the offers IMO. The only A-S caliber name I've seen is Vince, and I just don't see NJ making that switch when they're running Jefferson and Vince together at the swing spots. NJ needs big men, not swing men.

The other name is Marbury, and I've already seen that one put down because Isiah won't send out any of his young guys for Artest.

[T Park]

^^ Agreed.


I think its Walsh not the other teams, saying hes been offered All stars, to sweeten other deals.


Barry, Beno, Oberto/Nazr

Either one, offer it up.

[bigzak25]

Duncan, Manu and Bruce Bowen are off the table.

If at all possible, barry, horry, and nazr along with the rights to Scola should be retained as well.

That leaves Tony Parker and Rasho as the main trade bait. Throw in Finley and Beno, no problem.

Keep Van Exel at this point.

That would leave,

5 Nazr
4 TD
3 Artest
2 Bowen
1 Van Exel

Manu
Horry
Barry
Oberto

filling out the bench.

It does leave us light at the 5, no doubt. But Rasho's contributions are easily replaced imo.

Imagine Bruce and Artest Locking down on D, with TD and Naz guarding the paint.

And on offense? Bruce and Van Exel camped out for the open 3. Naz on board duty and TD and Artest getting the job done inside and out, via score or assist.

And then have Manu coming off the bench? Barry ready to play backup point if/when needed.

Bring Scola aboard next year or trade his rights for a decent big man and the Spurs have the next few rings locked up. NO Matter what the heat or pistons do.

What do ya think?

and while i agree with concerns about team chemistry, you gotta realize, we are the hunted right now.

i don't want to wait to be knocked off to be hungry to stay on top. Rasho just doesn't cut it. Parker is 100% Speed. Age tends to wear that down. Parker is GREAT, don't get me wrong, but if the Spurs had a chance to get Artest? A Perrenial Defender of the Year? A nice guy, in spite of past mistakes and what people think. A guy that lost his head once and did something that he's LEARNED FROM! A guy almost, almost, willing to go toe to toe with Big Ben Wallace? A guy that can learn from Bruce Bowen?

Defense wins championships. Pop Will Make the Chemistry work. And if not? Well, there are Many many takers for Ron Artest. It's not like he wouldn't be tradeable. But i'm betting our Spurs would keep him around for along time once the trophies start piling up.

And I realize that Van Ex is not a fulltime starter anymore, but if that's the case? We can Start Manu Ginobili at the Point.

Manu, Bruce, Artest, TD, Nazr.

Barry, Horry, Van Ex, Oberto off the bench.

I'd like another Big though. What's Kwillis doing these days? :spin

[exstatic]

The other name is Marbury, and I've already seen that one put down because Isiah won't send out any of his young guys for Artest.


If Marbury is one of their "young guys", I hope Zeke is providing Ensure in their locker room. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

What do ya think?I thought you didn't post here anymore.

But saying we should keep Barry over Parker says it all.

:shootme

[smeagol]

Barry, Beno, Oberto/Nazr

Either one, offer it up.
How is Barry, Beno and Oberto = Artest?

You yourself have said Barry is worth a hotdog and soda for over a year now. You've critiziced Beno and you are on the record saying Oberto can't jump.

All of a sudenm, they are = to Artest.

Are people in the Pacers organization stupid?

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, how is Holt limiting management by not wanting to have some Toros fodder on his payroll?


There is more than just NDBL fodder out there.





Because he goes from a team full of thugs (JO, Buckets) to a family environment like the Spurs.

I think the Spurs franchise has proven under the Pop/Duncan regime they can handle one "crazy" guy on the squad. If he goes whacko you send him down to the Toros and say fuck it, it didn't work out.

The upside to this deal, however, is enormous.

The downside is $30 mil over 4 years. That's fairly "enormous".

The Spurs haven't had anyone lacking sanity like Artest before.

[bigzak25]

I thought you didn't post here anymore.

But saying we should keep Barry over Parker says it all.

:shootme

yes, i said in my post that barry was a better point guard then tony parker. :lol

CD, you read what you want to read.

I'll spell it out good brother, Our San Antonio Spurs have a BETTER chance of winning multiple titles with Artest in the lineup instead of Parker.

I'll say this also. Manu Ginobili IS a BETTER POINT GUARD THEN TONY PARKER...RIGHT NOW.

[exstatic]

Big Zak, I thought you quit the loco weed. Have you not watched ANY Spurs games this year? Parker is a fucking ALL STAR. He also doesn't need psychiatric medicines.

[bigzak25]

do you like seal exstatic?

ever heard the song

'and we're never gonna survive, unless, we get a little bit crazy'

i like that song. :tu :)

[midgetonadonkey]

Thankfully, it will never happen.

[bigzak25]

^kiss of death. :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

Also, isn't Reggie's salary still on the books this year? For some reason I was thinking it was.

Reggie got Finley-ed by Indy this summer.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=2135098)

[exstatic]

do you like seal exstatic?

ever heard the song

'and we're never gonna survive, unless, we get a little bit crazy'

i like that song. :tu :)

I don't think he meant it literally, rather, that they needed to explore boundaries and think new ideas. I do like the song, though.

Artest is literally nuts. If you've read this thread through, you'll know that he has had psychiatric meds prescribed on more than one occasion, and just throws them away. This is not just an angry or misunderstood young man. He has problems, and refuses to face them or get treatment. That's three strikes right there, at least in my book.

[Solid D]

Artest is like a battery. You know...like an Energizer or Duracell. One side is positive, the other negative. Polar opposites in one package.

He has rare physical presence, athleticism and focus.....but a volatile reagent in the chemistry mix. I'd have to say Dennis Rodman and Brian Bison Williams type of reagents. Wacksville, meet the next generation.

[FreshPrince22]

If we had Artest, think of the finals.

Bowen on Billups
Artest on Hamilton

Detroits backcourt is a non factor.

Rip owned Artest in the ECF in '04. Artest is now 30 pounds heavier. I would pay to see him keep up with Rip now. Especially in this new offense. He would foul out in 2 minutes trying to fight through those screens.

Remember Artest got so frustrated that he purposely close-lined him and got a Flagrant in the closing minutes of one of those games?
________
LovelyPeppy cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/LovelyPeppy)

[Kori Ellis]

Rip owned Artest in the ECF in '04. Artest is now 30 pounds heavier. I would pay to see him keep up with Rip now. Especially in this new offense. He would foul out in 2 minutes trying to fight through those screens.

Remember Artest got so frustrated that he purposely close-lined him and got a Flagrant in the closing minutes of one of those games?

True. That series is what sealed it for me that Bowen is a better defender than Artest. Artest got so frustrated with Rip that he got dirty. When Bruce gets frustrated because he's getting beat, he adjusts and gets better.

[Brutalis]

I would die from laughing if the Spurs landed Artest.
This post summed it all up for me.

It's like do or die. If we do it and it works, great, if it screws us up. OHhhhhh rodman this... rodman that... !

[baseline bum]

Parker is 100% Speed. Age tends to wear that down

Parker's what... 23? 24? WGAF about age wearing speed down? Is Iverson a scrub now?

[bigzak25]

Artest is like a battery. You know...like an Energizer or Duracell. One side is positive, the other negative. Polar opposites in one package.

He has rare physical presence, athleticism and focus.....but a volatile reagent in the chemistry mix. I'd have to say Dennis Rodman and Brian Bison Williams type of reagents. Wacksville, meet the next generation.


maybe that's why i like him then...:lol

i'm just sticking up for my fellow bipolar crazy muthafukiin brutha...cuz i'm just like him...:lmao

[bigzak25]

Parker's what... 23? 24? WGAF about age wearing speed down? Is Iverson a scrub now?


the point is baseline, Parker's 'allstar scoring' dissappears in the big games in the playoffs. i'll say it again, until he proves otherwise? he's a regular season allstar and a finals flop. and i'm a parker fan. i support the man. but i support the Spurs more. :tu

[baseline bum]

the point is baseline, Parker's 'allstar scoring' dissappears in the big games in the playoffs. i'll say it again, until he proves otherwise? he's a regular season allstar and a finals flop. and i'm a parker fan. i support the man. but i support the Spurs more. :tu

What about when he outplayed Kidd the first 3 games of the 2003 Finals?

[bigzak25]

What about when he outplayed Kidd the first 3 games of the 2003 Finals?


outplayed?

they didn't play head to head.

parker has wheels of fire. no doubt.

when he takes it strong to the cup? makes the scoop or they layup, or the patented TP teardrop? i'm cheering very very loud.

and tonight? he was tearing up the assists. beautiful pass to finley on one bucket i saw.

if he keeps getting 10 and 10? AND he shows up in this years finals? I'll admit i was stupid to doubt him. til then? SHOW ME TP. PROVE ME WRONG.

you remember him outplaying kidd? i remember kerr beating the mavs in the clincher and speedy claxton getting the meaningful minutes when the game was on the line vs the nets. :tu

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What about when he outplayed Kidd the first 3 games of the 2003 Finals?

what about when he had to have speedy claxton rescue him in the most crucial game of all. Game 6?

Parker is a good no doubt, and having the season of his career, but until he's playing like this long after the snow has melted in the northeast i'm still gonna have my doubts.

[Trainwreck2100]

What about when he outplayed Kidd the first 3 games of the 2003 Finals?


And speedy had to save his ass, the last 3

[Frenchise player]

Tony Parker was in his second season in the league and was 20 years old.
How many 20 years old poing guard have won a tittle as starter? I can only think of Magic Johnson.
You can't forget that he was also the second best scorer in that team and outplaying the best point guard in the league at the time in three of the six games is pretty good.

[ducks]

Pacers, Artest front and center in trade talks
Mike Kahn / FOXSports.com

It would be redundant to call the latest off-the-court issue revolving around Ron Artest a news flash.

And maybe it's just a coincidence that it happened Thursday, the first day that the players acquired over the summer via trade and free agency can be traded.

Nonetheless, it fits quite well. Just four days after Artest shot off his mouth about his inability to fit into the Indiana Pacers' offense and wanting to be traded, he was fined $10,000 by the NBA per an element in the new collective bargaining agreement forbidding such public commentary.

"Public trade demands by players was a subject discussed at length during collective bargaining negotiations this summer," said Rick Buchanan, NBA senior vice president and general counsel in a statement. "The damage caused by these kinds of statements was commonly understood, as was the NBA's intention to hold players accountable for such statements going forward."

Having said that, the trading post is officially open, and deals are expected to be made on several fronts. It is highly unusual to have players like Artest, Chicago's Tim Thomas and New Jersey's Marc Jackson inactive at this point of the season. All three are expected to be dealt.

In Portland, forward Ruben Patterson suffered the same fate after an insubordination incident on the bench, and the Blazers have actively been trying to trade him for months. They are obviously showcasing him now with hopes of creating some action.

And then there were other acquisitions that haven't worked out very well. Jerome James in New York, Houston's Stromile Swift and Earl Watson in Denver could all be traded — although Watson's odd status as a third point guard has changed this week with Earl Boykins injuring his hamstring.

There are plenty more possible trades. So let's take a look at the teams most likely to make a deal between now and the Feb. 23 trade deadline.

Indiana Pacers: The Pacers have to trade Artest. They stood by him through all of his fits before last season, then when he instigated the brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills that decimated the team and the season. The preference is to move him out West, with the most likely candidates for trade being the Sacramento Kings (Bonzi Wells or Peja Stojakovic), Los Angeles Lakers (Kwame Brown or Devean George and Andrew Bynum), Golden State Warriors (Mike Dunleavy-plus) and the Seattle SuperSonics (Vladimir Radmanovic-plus). The best possibility on the East Coast is Atlanta, where the Hawks could trade back Al Harrington to Indiana.

New York Knicks: It's been six weeks, and, as expected, coach Larry Brown has discovered he doesn't have a point guard. Stephon Marbury never has and never will fit his mold; Jerome James, as expected, has been a total bust — getting out of shape; and they've been trying to move the contracts of Penny Hardaway and Malik Rose. The only happiness can be found with rookies Channing Frye, David Lee and Nate Robinson, plus second-year forward Trevor Ariza. They may acquire Ruben Patterson from Portland.

New Jersey Nets: The Nets are the most disappointing team in the East. Marc Jackson has been a bust, but there's something else wrong, and something has got to give. Neither Jason Kidd, nor Vince Carter appear as healthy or effective as last season, but Richard Jefferson looks fine. Nenad Krstic still looks promising, but they have been reportedly already making overtures to Houston for Stromile Swift, whom they had targeted last summer only to be outbid by the Rockets. President Rod Thorn will not stand pat through the trade deadline.

Sacramento Kings: The Kings are the West Coast version of the Nets. They have all the parts in place — they just aren't working. They're trying to run the same Princeton offense that worked so well off of Vlade Divac and Chris Webber off the post, but those guys aren't there anymore. Bonzi Wells has been so-so, but the problem has been trying to build around Peja Stojakovic, who just hasn't been up to All-Star form the past couple of years. He's the guy they need to move, and even if it isn't for Artest. Al Harrington in Atlanta, soon to be a free agent, would actually be a better fit.

Denver Nuggets: Once Earl Boykins' hamstring heals (he's a remarkable physical specimen), they'll move Watson. How can a third-string point guard be worth a four-year, $29 million contract? And there are plenty of teams that need a tough on-the-ball defending point guard, namely the Knicks, who have been offering Malik Rose. The Nuggets will trade Voshon Lenard — even for a second round draft choice.

Seattle Supersonics: The Sonics need to move forward Vladimir Radmanovic. He isn't playing as many minutes for Bob Weiss as he did for Nate McMillan, and he'll be a free agent next summer. He'll fit on any number of teams, particularly Indiana and Chicago. Flip Murray is also available and could be moved to a team that needs a scorer.

Portland Trail Blazers: They're so young and lost; you have to wonder what kind of players coach Nate McMillan thought he had before training camp and how he feels about them now. Zach Randolph is problematic for any number of reasons, including recovery from micro-fracture surgery. Darius Miles is still awaiting opinions on whether or not to have knee surgery — but he hasn't played in a couple of weeks in the process.

Washington Wizards: The Wizards are a sleeper team to make a deal. They're playing far below the level they were last season and need to get more quality depth up front. Etan Thomas is a nice player, but he is erratic and can't be counted on to get the job done — same with Brendan Haywood. At some point they will decide whether it's Jared Jeffries or Jarvis Hayes they like the most and move the other. This could be the time, because the Wizards could move prominently into the playoff picture in a hurry if they had an Artest or any kind of impact power player.

Miami Heat: With Pat Riley now coaching the team, the moves he wants to make now are even more unfettered than when he was just president. Now he doesn't have to worry about how the coach will coordinate the players. With Michael Doleac and young Dorell Wright as bait, Riley wants another point guard (Watson?) and a solid player up front.

Los Angeles Lakers: The Lakers still seem like the best prospect for Artest. The concept of Artest and Lamar Odom at forward, with Kobe Bryant on the wing makes Phil Jackson excited. Whether or not the Pacers can get excited about Kwame Brown or Devean George is a bigger question — because anyone can get excited about 7-foot-1 teenager Andrew Bynum, who is loaded with talent and a great attitude that Brown still has not reached.

Chicago Bulls: The Bulls badly need some power players and maybe a better small forward than Luol Deng. The key could be if and when they move Tim Thomas — maybe they can find a team that will take him just for the salary cap relief in the summer. But what players will they get? This is a huge test for general manager John Paxson, who's trying to figure out what went wrong beyond the dealing of Eddy Curry.

Regardless of who is thinking what — and Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh claims he's already heard from more than 20 other general managers regarding Artest, he's the kind of player who could help a very good team take the next step.

But teams are just asking for trouble with Artest as he could stunt the growth of an average squad or worse.

Veteran NBA writer Mike Kahn is a frequent FOXSports.com contributor.

[ChumpDumper]

I love it when Tony gets the blame for forcing the best coaches in the league to change their entire defensive strategy and other Spurs can't take the resulting advantage. It's like saying Tim is getting bailed out by when Tim is the one getting triple teamed.

I also love that folks want to get rid of Tony fully four or five years [i]before his prime and give Indiana the one-two punch that has produced two championships and a 19-4 record thus far.

[FromWayDowntown]

the point is baseline, Parker's 'allstar scoring' dissappears in the big games in the playoffs. i'll say it again, until he proves otherwise? he's a regular season allstar and a finals flop. and i'm a parker fan. i support the man. but i support the Spurs more. :tu

Are you trying to suggest that Artest has come up huge in big games? That you'd give up Parker to get him, because he's a dominating playoff performer when it matters most?

If so, you might take a look again at his numbers in the 2004 ECF against Detroit.

In that series, Artest shot 28% from the floor and under 20% from 3. He averaged more than 10 points, but it took him a ridiculous number of shots just to get to those totals. What's worse is that he defended Rip, and Rip averaged almost 24 ppg in that series and scored 20+ in every game.

As bad as Parker occasionally can be, he's never shot so pathetically in any series. And Parker hasn't melted down to administer cheap shots because he's frustrated.

[SA210]

^^^ both previous posts :tu well said.

[howard2]

Hoopsworld.com
By Steve "BskBALL" Kyler
Dec 18, 2005
Link: Hoopsworld (http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_15398.shtml)

NBA RUMOR MILL – Ron To Sacramento?

RUMOR HAS IT…
In this weeks section geared exclusively towards the latest rumors floating around… “Rumor Has It…”

The Hawks: Things are starting to settle down for the Hawks, turmoil in the locker room has cooled, and it seems the team has figured out that fighting internally is not going to make the season any better. There are two Hawks players being floated on the trade market one if Al Harrington, who is campaigning to be traded, the other is Tony Delk… Both players could be an attractive package to a team willing to give the Hawks young players, the Hawks look to be sitting on $15 to $18 million in cap space next summer, and a high draft pick.

Some HEAT: Things have continued to progress for the Miami Heat, and trade talk has settled somewhat, a HEAT source says that Mike Doleac is still the player the HEAT are open to trading, and they’d like to return a shooter, Voshon Lenard continues to mentioned, and it seems the Nuggets are receptive. The HEAT are supposedly holding the line, until they establish Shaq is 100% healthy and going to play out the season.

Some Size: Several teams are shopping for size - the Hornets, Hawks, Magic, Nets and Blazers have all made inquires about trading for “Bigs” and have made it clear they will deal for the right big man sooner than later.

Zach Attack: Count the days, despite denials from the Blazers two league said they were told Zach Randolph is tiring of being the scapegoat for the Blazers and tired of being Nate McMillan’s whipping boy – one source said Zach vented at a friend saying he was playing the same way he’s always played, and the same way he was playing when the Blazers re-signed him, and he’s frustrated that now all of a sudden the way he’s playing is not good enough and he’s growing tired of Nate’s barbs in the press – It seems its only a matter of time before something gives and the Blazers have no choice but to deal Zach, and several teams have interest in acquiring him.

RON ARTEST UPDATE
The circus that’s has become the Ron Artest situation continues, this time with Ron and his agent Mark Stevens, pleading to the media that Ron does not want a trade from the Pacers. Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh says he’s still moving forward with exploration of offers, but is puzzled why Ron did not come to the team with his frustrations. This week Ron called teammates, trying to mend the fence, but Jermaine O’Neal refused his call, and told media that if for some reason Ron was allowed back on the team, it would be “him or me” drawing the line, that he would not play with Artest again. Walsh has told media he’s heard from more than 20 teams, most were exploratory calls seeking Indiana’s price – some had real offers attached… Here are some of the offers floated according to league and team sources – Donnie Walsh has refused to openly discuss what has be offered.

Bonzi Wells & Kevin Martin - Its been suggested that Jermaine O’Neal was told of an offer from Sacramento that included good friend Bonzi Wells and “the kid they drafted last year”. A source close to the Kings says Bonzi has come to the realization that he wants to compete, and is finding the laid back atmosphere in Sacramento annoying and has hinted that he’d want a trade. The numbers work salary wise given the new 25% rule, for Sacramento they get Artest who they have coveted for some time, without giving up Peja – Indiana gets a player Jermaine O’Neal approves of, and a young player in Kevin Martin who they have scouted in each of the past too summers. Bonzi comes off the books next summer, so it’s not a long term marriage if it doesn’t work out, and Kevin is cheap – toss in a draft pick and this is the best deal floating around.

Kelvin Cato and a draft pick - The Orlando Magic called, they asked the price tag and its been suggested Kelvin Cato and his ending contract was mentioned, but a source close to the Pacers said, the Magic do have a package that would work for the Pacers and that would be Tony Battie and Jameer Nelson – Magic sources say there is no way they deal Tony without getting a big man in return, and the club is not open to the idea of trading Jameer at this point. The only way the Magic get Ron Artest is to give up a piece they have now, and it does not seem like they are willing to do that.

Three Way Through Atlanta
The speculation was that Indiana wanted Al Harrington back, and that Denver had eyes for Ron Artest, the scenario goes that Denver trades Earl Watson to Atlanta, who sends Al Harrington to Denver, who send Harrington to Indiana for Ron Artest – its likely one other players has to be included to make the change work in trade in the Watson to Atlanta leg. It’s been suggested that Nene would be included in the deal to sweeten the offer, but a league source denies that he’d be included.

Not New York Despite pleas from Ron Artest to be traded to the Knicks, a source inside the organization says Isiah Thomas is adamant that he is not bringing Ron Artest to New York, and that his calls to the Pacers were more to see if he could be of help in a three team trade that would help him be rid of Jerome James and Penny Hardaway and return useful pieces now, Artest is not viewed as one of them.

TWO FOR THE ROAD
You can call it the kiss of death for a coach – it’s the dreaded vote of confidence from the GM, and both Lawrence Frank of the Nets and Bob Weiss of the Sonics both got it this week. Rod Thorn told media that he did not think his club’s issues had anything to do with coaching, saying he thought the problems had more to do with players and says he’s committed to Lawrence Frank and his staff. Thorn has been working the phone pretty aggressively, looking to Houston’s Stromile Swift as a possible answer. Rumor has it Thorn is willing to come off Richard Jefferson for the right package of big men, and Jeff McInnis is said to be available after a very public pout about playing time. It seems the Nets will try to make a deal before making a coaching change, but if things do not improve in New Jersey, you can expect that there will be a change in the off-season, especially with Stan Van Gundy available. In Seattle Bob Weiss, is finding that the team that over achieved last year, is underachieving this year – some say its because Weiss plays favorites and some players feel like they are unwanted on the team. Rick Sund said the team this year reminds him of the team, two seasons ago that struggled due to effort and commitment by the players, he’s hopeful that things turn around for the Sonics, and would not entertain that a coaching change may be in order. Weiss got the Sonics job because there weren’t a lot of options for Seattle after Nate McMillan left, several people near the team say he’s a great guy, but better suited as a lead assistant, and expect the Sonics to make a change this summer.

[clubalien]

with ron artest we are champs once again he has great d and good o too

[ducks]

David Whitley
Hill for Artest? It's not as crazy as you'd think
Published December 19, 2005


E-mail this article
Printer friendly version
Most e-mailed articles



Want to hear something crazy? The Magic are considering trading Grant Hill for Ron Artest.

OK, they actually only considered it for about 2.8 seconds on Sunday.

That was how long it took Assistant General Manager Otis Smith to stop chuckling at the thought of trading the Comeback Player of the Year for the Go-Away Player of the Year.

"We're both problem children," Hill joked.

The difference is Hill's problems have required crutches. Artest's have required a straitjacket. That said, guess who called Indiana to see if they could work out some kind of deal?

"You have to inquire about a player of that caliber," Smith said.

You certainly do, no matter how insane it seems.

The mere mention of the phrase "Artest" is enough to make most people break out a crucifix. He is the NBA's Sling Blade. One minute, he's sweetly and innocently eating french-fried potatoes. The next, he's chopping off his team's head with a lawn mower blade.

It wasn't enough that he made the entire NBA look like a 50 Cent video last year. The Pacers stood by him, and he has repaid them by sabotaging another season. He said he can't function under Coach Rick Carlisle and demanded a trade. Now he says he wants to stay. The Pacers just want to get rid of Artest before Jermaine O'Neal throws a beer at him.

If the sports world were sane, prospective employers would look at Artest and see a tsunami of trouble. Instead, they envision long, happy walks on the beach.

"We all think a change of address is good," Smith said. "We all think getting around our guys and putting our staff around him will make the difference."

We all think anyone is nuts for thinking that, but it's a bottom-line business. And the bottom line is Artest is one of the league's best players.

As nice as it might be to get sanctimonious and say, "We'd never take that bum," the fact is a general manager isn't doing his job unless he at least inquires.

About 20 teams have done so with Artest. They know fans initially will act as if the team just imported a 6-foot-7 Vietnamese chicken infected with the avian flu. But as soon as Artest shuts down LeBron James, fans will love him.

Sometimes a change of scenery helps (see: Rasheed Wallace, Corey Dillon). But some head cases carry their issues wherever they go (Larry Brown, a certain Philadelphia Eagles receiver, Sling Blade).

Artest's fate is predictable. He'll get a new team, he'll work hard and everybody will sing redemptive praises. But sooner or later, the time bomb will explode. Even with that, Artest is worth acquiring if your franchise is out of alignment.

Teams such as Detroit and San Antonio don't need the disruption. Teams such as the Knicks and Lakers have no chemistry to lose. Teams such as the Magic have to be pragmatic.

If you can get Artest for 50 cents on the dollar and he behaves for a couple of seasons, it's worth the gamble. Wouldn't you trade Hedo Turkoglu for Artest and a psychiatrist to be named later?

And though the contracts make it almost impossible, what about a 26-year-old small forward entering his prime for a 33-year-old small forward who sadly limped through much of his?

Put away the pitchforks, it'll never happen. But as much as Artest deserves to be banished for another season, teams would be nuts not to try to pick him up.

Then they'd really be crazy to think it's going to last.

David Whitley can be reached at [email protected].

[ducks]

Should Suns gamble on Artest?
By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist
December 18, 2005
The Suns would be crazy to trade for Ron Artest. And crazy is the operative word here.
Artest is the Jerry Springer Show in basketball shorts, a dysfunctional, volatile head case who poisons whatever he touches.

Related Links
Commentary

You thought Terrell Owens was a selfish malcontent? Compared to Artest, he’s Mother Teresa.

Artest asked the Indiana Pacers for time off so he could promote his rap album.

He went into the stands at the Palace in Auburn Hills last November, got into a melee with the fans and was suspended for the rest of the season by commissioner David Stern.

He then thanked the Pacers for their support during the suspension by demanding a trade because he doesn’t like coach Rick Carlisle’s system. He didn’t go to management with his trade request, by the way. He aired his dirty laundry in the media.

‘‘I’m so demanding of the ball. It’s not my fault,’’ Artest told the Indianapolis Star. ‘‘Every time somebody is on me it’s a mismatch. It messes up the offense. I like Coach as a person, but I don’t like playing for Coach."

Clearly, a team would have to be desperate to acquire a player who has more baggage than Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

Or, it would have to be on the cusp of winning an NBA championship.

Artest, 26, may be an anarchist, but he’s also one of the NBA’s best players. He was averaging 19.4 points and 2.63 steals per game this season before popping off and then being told by Pacers management to stay away from the team. Two seasons ago, he was the NBA Defensive Player of the Year.

The reward is huge.

But so is the risk.

Which brings us back to the Suns.

Team officials already have said they’re not interested in making a major deal, and after ridding themselves of one me-first player — Stephon Marbury — they’re not going to pursue, in Artest, someone who believes he’s bigger than an organization.

But if I’m team president Bryan Colangelo, here’s why I’m calling the Pacers:
Kurt Thomas, Amaré Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Artest and Steve Nash.

No NBA team, including the San Antonio Spurs and Detroit Pistons, would have a better starting five come the postseason. If Stoudemire is healthy or even close to his old form, the Suns would be a legitimate championship contender.

Phoenix can make the trade work under the salary cap — Artest will make $6.8 million this year —by trading Raja Bell and Jim Jackson. If that’s not enough for Indiana, Phoenix could part with one of the two first-round draft choices it received in the Joe Johnson deal.

Now, there’s good reason to just say no to Artest. He complained he wasn’t getting enough shots in Indiana, so would he pollute the atmosphere because the Suns’ offense runs through Nash and Stoudemire?

Phoenix has an exceptional locker room in terms of camaraderie and selflessness. The team comes first in every respect. Toss a human hand grenade like Artest into the mix and he could leave shrapnel from one end of the room to the other.

Also, there’s something to be said for stability. The Suns are a young, athletic club that will be immeasurably better when Stoudemire returns. There’s no need to make a major move and overhaul the roster for the second time since the Western Conference Finals.

But Artest is talented enough to suspend logic, even if it’s only for the amount of time Colangelo might talk to Pacers president Donnie Walsh.

Artest could benefit from a change of scenery, as Rasheed Wallace did in going from Portland to Detroit. Wallace’s image didn’t require a complete refurbishing — his Trail Blazer teammates liked and respected him — but who’s to say Artest wouldn’t change his ways with a fresh start? Or respond better to Mike D’Antoni’s light touch than he did the taciturn Carlisle.

Artest needs to be on a team with a strong veteran presence in the locker room. The Suns have that in Nash and Thomas; they might be able to keep Artest in line.

It’s admirable that Phoenix is not only winning games but doing so with a group of players you can feel good about.

But in the end, professional sports isn’t about character. It’s about championships. Artest could blow up in the Suns’ face. Or, help them win a title. Isn’t that worth thinking about?

[pache100]

I think every team in the NBA should be allowed to designate one player to go into the stands at the Palace and beat up one unsuspecting Piston fan late in the 4th quarter.

I cannot take anything else you say seriously. You have just invalidated anything worthwhile you have ever said, IMHO.

[Extra Stout]

Are you trying to suggest that Artest has come up huge in big games? That you'd give up Parker to get him, because he's a dominating playoff performer when it matters most?

If so, you might take a look again at his numbers in the 2004 ECF against Detroit.

In that series, Artest shot 28% from the floor and under 20% from 3. He averaged more than 10 points, but it took him a ridiculous number of shots just to get to those totals. What's worse is that he defended Rip, and Rip averaged almost 24 ppg in that series and scored 20+ in every game.

As bad as Parker occasionally can be, he's never shot so pathetically in any series. And Parker hasn't melted down to administer cheap shots because he's frustrated.
FWD, zac hasn't gotten any smarter since the last time you tried to debate him.

[pache100]

Contrary to some posts, the only person Artest respects is HIMSELF. This guy has an ego problem that drives him.

I'm not contesting the ego thing, but I still contend that he does NOT respect himself. There is not a shred of self-respect about the man.

[bigzak25]

I love it when Tony gets the blame for forcing the best coaches in the league to change their entire defensive strategy and other Spurs can't take the resulting advantage. It's like saying Tim is getting bailed out by when Tim is the one getting triple teamed.

I also love that folks want to get rid of Tony fully four or five years [i]before his prime and give Indiana the one-two punch that has produced two championships and a 19-4 record thus far.

the 1-2 punch the spurs have is Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili.

with Kudos to Bruce for locking down on D.

Parker is a role player at best in the BIG games. :tu

[bigzak25]

Are you trying to suggest that Artest has come up huge in big games? That you'd give up Parker to get him, because he's a dominating playoff performer when it matters most?

If so, you might take a look again at his numbers in the 2004 ECF against Detroit.

In that series, Artest shot 28% from the floor and under 20% from 3. He averaged more than 10 points, but it took him a ridiculous number of shots just to get to those totals. What's worse is that he defended Rip, and Rip averaged almost 24 ppg in that series and scored 20+ in every game.

As bad as Parker occasionally can be, he's never shot so pathetically in any series. And Parker hasn't melted down to administer cheap shots because he's frustrated.

Are you trying to suggest that Tony Parker would have done better vs detroit if he was a Pacer last year?

Watch Artest Blossom into a Superstar with TD down low and Pop in control. :tu With Bruce and Manu showing him the way by leading by example.

Apples and Oranges. You guys can WIN all the stat arguments, okay. Sometimes it goes deeper than that.

[bigzak25]

FWD, zac hasn't gotten any smarter since the last time you tried to debate him.


Oh, i beg to differ. But as you were. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

Ugh, this thread is still going on?

First off, you aren't going to be able to land Artest for table scraps. Barry + Marks or whatever is not going to get it done.

Secondly, there isn't really a need to make such a move. Once Manu is back, you have Bowen/Manu/Finley as your top 3 in your swing rotation. Artest perhaps would make for a slight improvement over Finley, but you have to discount that with all of the drama he brings, including the propensity to do something incredibly stupid.

Finally, with Mohammed clearly being on the trade block, you already have the potential to land a useful swingman, someone who can fit in your system, give you what you need and who is mentally stable.

Bringing in Artest, at his price and with the potential to wreck yet another contender in this league would not be a good basketball move, just like ownership limiting the activities of the player-personnel management in order to shave a few measly bucks off payroll.

[ChumpDumper]

the 1-2 punch the spurs have is Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili.Last I checked, Tony is scoring just as much Tim.

I still can't believe folks are calling Tony's play this season a fluke.

[smeagol]

Bowen for Artest
Salaries match?

[ChumpDumper]

No.

[spurs=bling]

Bowen for Artest


are you on crack?

[spurs=bling]

we can toss Beno in the trade also


why would you trade Bruce? Ron well never be half the player Bruce is.

[ChumpDumper]

Artest has proven to be a much better quitter and record producer than Bruce.

[bigzak25]

Pop would never trade Bowen. He'll retire a Spur. Mark the tape. :tu

[spurs=bling]

he may be as good of a defender as Bowen but he's still a very good defender


plus Artest is a MUCH better offensive player it's not even funny


and the Spurs get younger


the team we have is good the way it is. there is no necessity to trade or alter the team, especially if they want to trade someone for Ron

[ChumpDumper]

everyone thought Big Dogg would be a problem and look how that turned outYeah, he cost us about $300k for 20 games and no players in trade.

If we could do the same with Artest I'd be all for it.

[smeagol]

Artest would be a great Spur under Pop
Sure :rolleyes

By the way, who wins the next Lotto?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

The Spurs need Artest like they need a punch in the face, so in that respect the trade would work, as that's about all that the Spurs would get. He should retire from basketball and launch a hip hop trio featuring himself, Bobby Brown, and Mike Tyson.

[pache100]

He should retire from basketball and launch a hip hop trio featuring himself, Bobby Brown, and Mike Tyson.

Maybe Tonya Harding can be their manager.

[E20]

From what I've read so far Artest isn't considering the Spurs and the Spurs aren't considering Artest, most articles don't even mention Artest and Spurs at all.

[bigzak25]

CIA Pop didn't get that name for nuthin. :tu

[E20]

I thought if Pop actually said he wasn't interested in something on paper/radio then CIA Pop would kick in.

[E20]

From all the stories on the internet via Yahoo regarding the trade. And local newspaper.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

The Spurs need Artest like they need a punch in the face, so in that respect the trade would work, as that's about all that the Spurs would get. He should retire from basketball and launch a hip hop trio featuring himself, Bobby Brown, and Mike Tyson.

Tyson and Artest were separated at birth.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

No way this happens, no freakin way.

Pop acquires team guys, Artest doesn't know the meaning of the word.

No way.

Why the hell would you want Artest when you have Bowen anyway? To disrupt team chemistry??? Makes no sense.

[ducks]

Pacers president Donnie Walsh told The Indianapolis Star News he is in the process of narrowing the list of teams interested in trading for forward Ron Artest. The Nuggets are expected to be on that list and have offered forward-center Nene and guard Earl Watson. ... A $1.6 million medical exception the Nuggets were given by the NBA for Nene expired Monday. ... Guard Earl Boykins (left hamstring strain) is questionable for Wednesday, guard Greg Buckner (left hip flexor strain) is listed as day to day and forward Kenyon Martin (left knee tendinitis) is a game-time decision. ... The Nuggets had a light practice Monday and coach George Karl was unavailable for comment. ... Vandeweghe said plans to send rookie guard Julius Hodge to NBADL Austin are postponed because of injuries.

[THE X-FACTOR]

Artest would be a nice fit for the Spurs "soft" attitud...


That's what the Spurs need..

Besides he's way better than Bowen...

you suck fake X-Factor

[pache100]

Artest would be a nice fit for the Spurs "soft" attitud...


That's what the Spurs need..

Besides he's way better than Bowen...

http://tinypic.com/iwm138.gif :lol

[sprrs]

From what I've read so far Artest isn't considering the Spurs and the Spurs aren't considering Artest, most articles don't even mention Artest and Spurs at all.

I don't think the Pacers are seriously taking Artest's feelings into account when trying to trade him. They'll just unload him anywhere they can as long as they get value for him. As far as the Spurs not wanting him, well we can only hope so

[waly.mg]

Tony and Artest can be a great Rap duo

[waly.mg]

We have now:

Brent Barry 12/31/1971 (34 at the new year)
Bruce Bowen 06/14/1971 (34)
Michael Finley 03/06/1973 (32)
Robert Horry 08/25/1970 (35)
Nick Van Exel 11/27/1971 (34)

Artest is now 26 (11/13/1979)

In a couple of years we need 1 starter and 4 bench players, if we have Artest, we have a 1-2-3-4 spots for 5 years, this can be great