Ludden: Seasonal slumping by Duncan

[Kori Ellis]

Seasonal slumping by Duncan

Web Posted: 12/20/2005 12:00 AM CST
Johnny Ludden
San Antonio Express-News

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA122005.1D.ludden.4e0c33e.html

MILWAUKEE — Tim Duncan barreled down the baseline, split the Kings' Bonzi Wells and Peja Stojakovic and punched in a one-handed dunk. As the SBC Center crowd rose, Tony Parker howled at his teammate's show of force.

Before the fans returned to their seats, Duncan picked off a pass from Jason Hart and was driving to the rim. Holding the ball above his head, he elevated from the right side of the lane.

Hart realized Duncan was about to produce his second "SportsCenter" highlight in 15 seconds and fouled him hard enough to disrupt the dunk.

As Duncan walked to the free-throw line, Parker jogged toward the bench. "I think we got Timmy back," he said.

Parker, whose Spurs play the Bucks tonight in Milwaukee, may have been a bit premature. Although Duncan's aggressiveness in Saturday's fourth quarter helped carry the Spurs past the Kings, his play in Sunday's loss to New Orleans was a more accurate reflection of how he has been struggling. He made 4 of 12 shots against the Hornets and matched his season-low with 11 points. The eight rebounds he took were his second-fewest this season. He also added four turnovers to the five he committed one night earlier.

Over the past five games, Duncan has averaged 17.4 points while shooting 40 percent, though most of that production came in an overtime victory against the Los Angeles Clippers when he totaled 27 points and 22 rebounds.

Duncan said he hasn't felt good for a while but attributed it more to a lack of rhythm than his sore right foot. He received an anti-inflammatory injection in his heel a week ago but has yet to miss a game.

"He said his foot has been good," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said.

If anything, Duncan has looked more tired than hurt. He has lacked focus, evident when he threw away backcourt passes in the past two games. In the fourth quarter Sunday, he fumbled a routine bounce pass from Parker and watched in frustration as it banged off his knee and skidded across the court into the first row of fans.

The Spurs have lost all four times they've played on consecutive nights, and Duncan's production has dropped off noticeably. In the past three games he's played without a day of rest, he's averaged 13 points on 27.2 percent shooting.

"It's not just Tim," Parker said. "It's all of us."

Most of the Spurs have grown weary of the travel the team has done this month. Of the Spurs' seven trips in December, only one is longer than a single game. As soon as they unpack, it's time to pack again.

The Spurs begin another back-to-back tonight against Milwaukee. Wednesday's game in New York will be their fourth in five days. It might not be a coincidence that Duncan's 20-20 game against the Clippers came after two days of rest.

"He's not Superman," said one NBA scout, who has watched the Spurs many times in recent weeks. "It's a long season, and maybe he's got it on cruise control a little bit.

"He doesn't catch any breaks at all, either. The superstars all demand double-teams, and people are physical with him. They beat him up and foul him, especially with his free-throw problems."

The absence of Manu Ginobili, who can create opportunities off the dribble, also has affected Duncan, the scout said. Ginobili has missed the past four games with a sprained right mid foot and is expected to miss the rest of the trip.

Parker and Bruce Bowen think the team could do a better job helping Duncan find his rhythm. After Duncan's sudden burst of energy against the Kings, Parker immediately went back to him the next two trips down the floor. Duncan scored both times.

"He has so much responsibility for our team," Bowen said. "I think he's not getting shots that are open. There are times where we're not getting him the ball, and it almost keeps him out of (the offense)."

Duncan's struggles might not be as evident if he hadn't played so well at other times. Two weeks ago, he looked remarkably fresh. In three consecutive games, he showed off a baseline spin move he rarely used last season.

In previous years, Duncan also endured some type of early slump. And after the "What's wrong with Tim?" headlines appeared, he usually fought his way out if it.

The key to any extended struggle, Michael Finley said, is to keep things simple.

"I think he's putting a lot of pressure on himself to make shots instead of just shooting them," Finley said. "It sounds odd, but he'll be OK."

[T Park]

Most of the Spurs have grown weary of the travel the team has done this month. Of the Spurs' seven trips in December, only one is longer than a single game. As soon as they unpack, it's time to pack again.

The Spurs begin another back-to-back tonight against Milwaukee. Wednesday's game in New York will be their fourth in five days. It might not be a coincidence that Duncan's 20-20 game against the Clippers came after two days of rest.

"He's not Superman," said one NBA scout, who has watched the Spurs many times in recent weeks. "It's a long season, and maybe he's got it on cruise control a little bit.

"He doesn't catch any breaks at all, either. The superstars all demand double-teams, and people are physical with him. They beat him up and foul him, especially with his free-throw problems."



The recent bitchers have to hate reading this.

[SequSpur]

Duncan is turning into Nowitski.

He needs to stick to his low post game and quit fucking around.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Imagine that, an article about Duncan slumping?! Wow, that's blasphemy.

As far as T Park goes- you do remember this is the assclown that was telling us Rasho Nesterovic was the next coming of Wilt Chamberlain two years ago right? Now, he's all about Nazr Mohammed....another gem.

'nuff said

Duncan needs to have a long look in the mirror and find the sack we all know he has, he just misplaces it from time to time.

I expect him to put a hurting on the Bucks tonight.

[GoSpurs21]

Imagine that, an article about Duncan slumping?! Wow, that's blasphemy.

As far as T Park goes- you do remember this is the assclown that was telling us Rasho Nesterovic was the next coming of Wilt Chamberlain two years ago right? Now, he's all about Nazr Mohammed....another gem.

'nuff said

Duncan needs to have a long look in the mirror and find the sack we all know he has, he just misplaces it from time to time.

I expect him to put a hurting on the Bucks tonight.

Duncan is turning into Nowitski.

He needs to stick to his low post game and quit fucking around.
that's funny the two biggest pussies on this board complaining about Tim's manhood. Sounds to me like they are really complaining about their own short comings.

[boutons]

Why are the Spurs so fragile mentally, unfocused, and tired?

Everybody came back rested,
we're only 1.5 months into a 6 month season,
and the Spurs already play the fatigue card?

Do other top teams have this fatigue problem?

Just like last season, Pistons starters are averaging 35 MPG.
They didn't run out gas last year. Anybody expect them to run out of gas this year?

[Kip Fanatic]

In that article it says that Tim Duncan looks tired. Of what? Playing video games up until 3am? He didn't play any basketball this off-season. Many were saying that he looked like he was in great shape and had an extra bounce to him. What happend? All of sudden 20+ games later he's tired. That's a joke.

The dude plays basketball for 30+ minutes a game. They play no more than four games a week. I can understand him being a little tired, but come on. Give me a break. He gets paid 10+ millions of dollars a year to do this. Suck it up.

Before starting my own business, I was a plumber's helper making $13.25/hour. I had to work Monday thru Friday from 7am to 4pm and sometimes later than that. I was tired, but I couldn't slack or else I would be out of a job.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why are the Spurs so fragile mentally, unfocused, and tired?

As usual, you're an idiot.

The Spurs don't get serious until the rodeo road trip. I guess everyone can grasp that fact except clowns like you expecting them to go 82-0.

[ducks]

lets see what the pistons play is like in june

[Kip Fanatic]

Nobody expected them to go 82-0. Its just kind of weird to here everyone in here and a lot of media personalities say that the Spurs would be a lot different this year when it came to rest because only Tony, Beno, and I believe someone else would be playing international ball this summer. Now all of a sudden they're tired??? Tony Parker is the one who seems to be going strong yet he played this summer???? Doesn't make sense to me.

[boutons]

AHF, you dickless twerp.

The Spurs had a 13-game win streak in Dec 04, while integrating Hedo and Rasho and no backup P/G.

Try again, shithead. Actually, try a first time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This is why I picked Miami to win it all. Tim Duncan is not anywhere near the level of the Big Diesel in terms of desire and physical conditioning. Quite frankly, I think the Spurs would be wise to cut their losses. Tim Duncan is just another quitter in the vain of Glenn Robinson. The bottom line is that at the end of the day when all is said and done and the all the cards are on the table that the Spurs should trade Duncan for a true warrior like my boy AI, or Ron Artest.

[T Park]

you do remember this is the assclown that was telling us Rasho Nesterovic was the next coming of Wilt Chamberlain two years ago right

Got a link to that, ASSCLOWN.

Cause I never said that.


But of course typical socialist canadien dumbfuck that you are, your pulling it out of your greasy bacon ass.


AHF, you dickless twerp.

The Spurs had a 13-game win streak in Dec 04, while integrating Hedo and Rasho and no backup P/G.

Try again, shithead. Actually, try a first time.

Fuck you boutons.

First off, look at what you just said.

Thats the same year they stunk in the playoffs, so want to tell me again, how its so fuckin important that they win 13 in a row in December?

They didn't even win the division that year EITHER.


So you havent even "tried"

Mr "Rockets are winning the conference"

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Awww, I can feel the holiday spirit taking hold here in Spurstalk.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

In that article it says that Tim Duncan looks tired. Of what? Playing video games up until 3am? He didn't play any basketball this off-season. Many were saying that he looked like he was in great shape and had an extra bounce to him. What happend? All of sudden 20+ games later he's tired. That's a joke.

The dude plays basketball for 30+ minutes a game. They play no more than four games a week. I can understand him being a little tired, but come on. Give me a break. He gets paid 10+ millions of dollars a year to do this. Suck it up.

Before starting my own business, I was a plumber's helper making $13.25/hour. I had to work Monday thru Friday from 7am to 4pm and sometimes later than that. I was tired, but I couldn't slack or else I would be out of a job.

I think Kip Fanatic is my new favotrite poster- couldn't have said it better.

Yeah let's all shed a tear for the athlete making 17 million dollars a year to play basketball 30 minutes a night because he's tired........ah the baby's tired, why should he give 100% when he's tired?

But if you're a fan that questions his heart, then you're stupid, don't know the score and are not a fan. You're only a fan of the Spurs if you agree with everything that's done on the court and you smile everytime they play basketball.

[ducks]

look I know when you go back to work after a long time you are more tired right away then your body gets used to it. the spur players will be fine.
maybe they are playign this card because fans think they should only have 2 losses.

pistons almost lost to the lowly mem last night

[boutons]

"Thats the same year they stunk in the playoffs"

Trashing you is shooting fish in a barrel.

You are saying that a 13-game win streak in December caused the Spurs to sweep the Grizz, and then to drop 4 straight to the Lakers?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

"Thats the same year they stunk in the playoffs"

Trashing you is shooting fish in a barrel.

You are saying that a 13-game win streak in December caused the Spurs to sweep the Grizz, and then to drop 4 straight to the Lakers?

Actually I believe the point he's making is that there isn't exactly a link between play in December and playoff success, so people shouldn't get bent out of shape over it. Believe me, I would love to see the Spurs playing better ball right now as well, but it's one of those things that I've come to just grin and bear about being a Spurs fan. It's a lot easier to stomach this than perenial playoff meltdowns like back in the day.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think he's tired. I think he's waiting for Manu to get back so he can take a week or two off to rest the foot.

[1Parker1]

"Thats the same year they stunk in the playoffs"

Trashing you is shooting fish in a barrel.

You are saying that a 13-game win streak in December caused the Spurs to sweep the Grizz, and then to drop 4 straight to the Lakers?


Which is proving his point that how they play now, win or lose, really shouldn't affect how they play later on...

[leemajors]

In that article it says that Tim Duncan looks tired. Of what?

ever had an infant, or an infant with colic? it can make you damn tired.

[Kip Fanatic]

Actually I believe the point he's making is that there isn't exactly a link between play in December and playoff success, so people shouldn't get bent out of shape over it. Believe me, I would love to see the Spurs playing better ball right now as well, but it's one of those things that I've come to just grin and bear about being a Spurs fan. It's a lot easier to stomach this than perenial playoff meltdowns like back in the day.

That's a good point. A very good one because I remember the Spurs of the 90's doing a great job in the regular season and disappearing in the playoffs. I understand that. I too would much rather have the Spurs tear it up in April, May, and June than in November, December, and January.

However, what I think that has some of the Spurs fans scratching their heads is that they look tired and out of it. Some of the players on the team don't look like they're into it. Why? Only about three of the players played ball this summer and one of them is leading this team (Tony Parker). A lot of fans thought that Parker would be the one who would be tired yet he is the only one who seems to have some fight in him. Now will he have that in May and June? No one knows.

Its just some Spurs fans including myself can't understand how a multi-millionare who plays basketball for about 30 minutes or so, who receives all kinds of treatment day in and day out can complain about being tired when you have men and WOMEN who have tougher jobs to do five or more days out of the week and get paid less, yet go at it 100%. That's all.

Should the Spurs go 82-0? No. I don't think that will ever happen, but should they be losing to teams like Atlanta, NO/OKC, and the like? I doubt it. You have a MVP, an international star (Manu), a PG stud, and a bench that all teams in the league wouldn't mind having yet they lose because of back to back games? C'mon!

[Kip Fanatic]

ever had an infant, or an infant with colic? it can make you damn tired.

I didn't know Tim Duncan was the only in the world who has an infant that is sick or that keeps him up? Wow. Let's not be so hard on Tim then. Sorry Lee? My bad. Everyone, back off of Tim Duncan because he has a new born child who keeps him up at night.

[pache100]

ever had an infant, or an infant with colic? it can make you damn tired.

Well, apparently, not only that, but if you are rich/make a lot of money, you are exempt/immune to tiredness. Apparently, if you are a professional basketball player, you are not human, so are not vulnerable to the weaknesses that affect all of us. Apparently. :rolleyes

[Extra Stout]

Why are the Spurs so fragile mentally, unfocused, and tired?Title hangover, I suppose.

Look at the Pistons again. Last year they were 23-18 at the halfway point.

Not all of that was because of the brawl.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

That's a good point. A very good one because I remember the Spurs of the 90's doing a great job in the regular season and disappearing in the playoffs. I understand that. I too would much rather have the Spurs tear it up in April, May, and June than in November, December, and January.

However, what I think that has some of the Spurs fans scratching their heads is that they look tired and out of it. Some of the players on the team don't look like they're into it. Why? Only about three of the players played ball this summer and one of them is leading this team (Tony Parker). A lot of fans thought that Parker would be the one who would be tired yet he is the only one who seems to have some fight in him. Now will he have that in May and June? No one knows.

Its just some Spurs fans including myself can't understand how a multi-millionare who plays basketball for about 30 minutes or so, who receives all kinds of treatment day in and day out can complain about being tired when you have men and WOMEN who have tougher jobs to do five or more days out of the week and get paid less, yet go at it 100%. That's all.

Should the Spurs go 82-0? No. I don't think that will ever happen, but should they be losing to teams like Atlanta, NO/OKC, and the like? I doubt it. You have a MVP, an international star (Manu), a PG stud, and a bench that all teams in the league wouldn't mind having yet they lose because of back to back games? C'mon!

I agree wholeheartedly. It's frustrating and I'm down right baffled by their play. I've just given up trying to understand it in favor of quietly accepting. If they don't get their shit together after that rodeo road trip though I'll probably be singing a different tune.

[Extra Stout]

"Thats the same year they stunk in the playoffs"

Trashing you is shooting fish in a barrel.

You are saying that a 13-game win streak in December caused the Spurs to sweep the Grizz, and then to drop 4 straight to the Lakers?
He's saying that great play in December does not portend a championship; neither does tepid play in December indicate eventual playoff defeat.

[td4mvp21]

AHF, you dickless twerp.

The Spurs had a 13-game win streak in Dec 04, while integrating Hedo and Rasho and no backup P/G.

Try again, shithead. Actually, try a first time.


And one year, their season long winning streak didn't come until late Feb. to mid-March. Your point?

[Kip Fanatic]

Well, apparently, not only that, but if you are rich/make a lot of money, you are exempt/immune to tiredness. Apparently, if you are a professional basketball player, you are not human, so are not vulnerable to the weaknesses that affect all of us. Apparently. :rolleyes

You must not have read all my postings. I said I can understand him being a little tired. However, it just seems funny that everyone here was pumped up about Tim and Manu getting rest during the summer and how the Spurs would roll everyone and now it seems more than 75% of the posters here are saying something like "its just the regular season, relax."

I'm not worried about the Spurs regular season play or about their record in December. I just don't like to see Spurs fan and the media make lame excuses for the players. I don't see why Spurs fan can't complain or get on Spurs players for lack of passion. All of a sudden you're not a fan for getting on your team. Please. :rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

However, it just seems funny that everyone here was pumped up about Tim and Manu getting rest during the summer and how the Spurs would roll everyone and now it seems more than 75% of the posters here are saying something like "its just the regular season, relax."They're both injured. Go figure.

[Kip Fanatic]

They're both injured. Go figure.

That's exactly what has me confused? You would think them resting in the Summer would have done them some good. We're here in late December and all of sudden they need to rest according to some here in Spurstalk.

[SpursWoman]

That's exactly what has me confused? You would think them resting in the Summer would have done them some good. We're here in late December and all of sudden they need to rest according to some here in Spurstalk.


What does resting in the summer have to do with getting injured after the summer is over? It only takes a second to tweak an angle, bruise a thigh, break a leg...or whatever.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Well, the Ginobili injury doesn't really shock me. The way that guy plays I'm amazed he's held up as well as he has. He's played banged up before but if you play with the kind of reckless abandon he exhibits it's just a matter of time before you land wrong or bump something. As for Tim, what the hell causes plantar faceaitis anyways? I got so used to seeing it next to people's names on the IR list that I stopped taking it seriously, just like patella tendinitis.

[pache100]

I don't see why Spurs fan can't complain or get on Spurs players for lack of passion.

When I believe that is warranted, I will do it. But, I do not consider fatigue and injury "lack of passion". Apparently, you do. We disagree.


All of a sudden you're not a fan for getting on your team. Please.

I never said that. Show me where I said that. I just think it's stupid to be "getting on your team" for what I consider unwarranted infractions. Again, we disagree. That does not mean I do not understand you or that I have not read your posts (how would I know I don't agree with you if I hadn't read them?); it just means we see things differently. No reason for insults.

[Supergirl]

In that article it says that Tim Duncan looks tired. Of what?

Well, he is also a new father. Any father can tell you, it's exhausting. And the Spurs have several new fathers on their roster. That also may be playing a role.

[Kip Fanatic]

[QUOTE=SpursWoman]What does resting in the summer have to do with getting injured after the summer is over? It only takes a second to tweak an angle, bruise a thigh, break a leg...or whatever.[/QUOTE

Resting your body has a lot to do with injuries. The less you rest, the more prone you are to injury. I understand that an injury can happen at any time. However, the article simply states that Tim has said his foot is fine. It also states that he seems tired.

[Kip Fanatic]

When I believe that is warranted, I will do it. But, I do not consider fatigue and injury "lack of passion". Apparently, you do. We disagree.

Again, read what I write before posting. I said that some players don't look into it. They seem out of it and not passionate. I also stated they looked tired. They meaning some of the players. I didn't say that an injury or being tired is the same as not having passion.


I never said that. Show me where I said that. I just think it's stupid to be "getting on your team" for what I consider unwarranted infractions. Again, we disagree. That does not mean I do not understand you or that I have not read your posts (how would I know I don't agree with you if I hadn't read them?); it just means we see things differently. No reason for insults.

I'm not insulting you nor do I think you have insulted me. I just want you to be sure you read carefully what I wrote before you begin to respond to something I write. I'm not getting on the team for being injured. I'm just not understanding how two months into the season Tim Duncan is tired. Its not only that. He doesn't seem to be into in most of the games. In my opinion that is. I think as a I fan I can have that opinion.

[leemajors]

I didn't know Tim Duncan was the only in the world who has an infant that is sick or that keeps him up? Wow. Let's not be so hard on Tim then. Sorry Lee? My bad. Everyone, back off of Tim Duncan because he has a new born child who keeps him up at night.

you are missing the point. regardless of who you are, or how many people are fathers, all of them are tired in the first six months or until your kid can sleep through the night. i understand he could be tired from that, apparently you don't. it's easier to work a desk job tired than run up and down a basketball court.

[Kip Fanatic]

Well, he is also a new father. Any father can tell you, it's exhausting. And the Spurs have several new fathers on their roster. That also may be playing a role.

Again with the excuses. :rolleyes

He's not the only one in the world who is a new father.

[Kip Fanatic]

you are missing the point. regardless of who you are, or how many people are fathers, all of them are tired in the first six months or until your kid can sleep through the night. i understand he could be tired from that, apparently you don't. it's easier to work a desk job tired than run up and down a basketball court.

I'm not saying that I don't understand the fact that having a newborn can be tiring. I'm just saying you make it seem like he's the only one. I don't have a regular desk job and worked laboring jobs before I started this small business.

I tied rebar with my dad from the age of 16-21 and was a plumbers helper after that for about two years. I would say working from sun up to sun down two or three days out of the week, bending over constantly to tie rebar, carrying loads of rebar on your shoulder, in the cold or hot is a lot harder on your body than running up and down a basketball court indoors.

[pache100]

Again with the excuses. :rolleyes

He's not the only one in the world who is a new father.

Getting old! No one here has said he is. And, anyone who IS or HAS BEEN a new father should certainly understand. :baby IMO.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Where to start...


I believe someone else would be playing international ball this summer. Now all of a sudden they're tired?


Best I can tell some of them have injuries. Yeah, they're saying they're tired. What do you want them to do? Be honest? "Yeah, we just don't give a flip until March."

Do you know how much that would piss off the league office?



AHF, you dickless twerp.

The Spurs had a 13-game win streak in Dec 04, while integrating Hedo and Rasho and no backup P/G.

Try again, shithead. Actually, try a first time.


This coming from a virgin who couldn't get to first base with a hooker :lol

What does December have to do with winning a title? ZERO. I don't have to try again, you aren't even on the same planet as far as intellectual capacity goes. Some of us have some, guys like you don't.

The Spurs are pacing themselves for the playoffs. They're on Robert Horry time as a team. Come back to the big kid's table when you figure that out.



You are saying that a 13-game win streak in December caused the Spurs to sweep the Grizz, and then to drop 4 straight to the Lakers?

No you dork, he's saying there is no correlation between December play and winning rings.

Kip -

That's exactly what has me confused? You would think them resting in the Summer would have done them some good.


Just because you rest doesn't mean you can't get injured. Some people seem to overlook that Duncan already rolled his ankle once this year.

Yeah, he says it's not bothering him, but we can all say it is. Respect the man for not wanting to use the ankle as an excuse and attempting to play through it instead of being such a babbling bouton about it.


He's not the only one in the world who is a new father.

:lol So because other people on the planet are also new fathers, Tim is exempt from everything that comes with a newborn? Nice logic.

Hey, Hitler, Osama, and Saddam are evil. They're men. Therefore all men are evil. Ain't this fun?

[easjer]

Its just some Spurs fans including myself can't understand how a multi-millionare who plays basketball for about 30 minutes or so, who receives all kinds of treatment day in and day out can complain about being tired when you have men and WOMEN who have tougher jobs to do five or more days out of the week and get paid less, yet go at it 100%. That's all.

Should the Spurs go 82-0? No. I don't think that will ever happen, but should they be losing to teams like Atlanta, NO/OKC, and the like? I doubt it. You have a MVP, an international star (Manu), a PG stud, and a bench that all teams in the league wouldn't mind having yet they lose because of back to back games? C'mon!


So it would be better for them to lose to a team that actually matters? A team that we might see in the playoffs? A division rival that might edge us out for HCA because of that loss?

A loss is a loss. If you're going to have them, I would rather the loss be to a team that doesn't matter than a team that does. I don't understand the outrage over those losses, as if it were nobler to lose to a team that might affect your playoff standing.

As for making lots of money and having an easy job, that's entirely conjecture, don't you think? Unless you've been a factory worker and a professional ball player, I don't think you can judge. It is not as easy as it looks. I will not try to claim that there are not people working harder or longer for less money, but I will claim I don't understand what that argument has to do with Tim Duncan's slump.

[Kip Fanatic]

Getting old! No one here has said he is. And, anyone who IS or HAS BEEN a new father should certainly understand. :baby IMO.

Whatever. Sorry for being a fan and getting on the team that I cheer for. Apparently, I can only cheer for them and praise them when they're either winning or losing to sorry teams in the league. From now on I'll only say postivie things about the team and make sure never to QUESTION a member of the team.

By the way pache, that was me being sarcastic before you take everything I write and twist it around.

[boutons]

"nobler to lose to a team that might affect your playoff standing"

EVERY loss, EC or WC, counts towards Finals HCA.

Pistons 3L
Spurs 5L

[sanman53]

Parker and Bruce Bowen think the team could do a better job helping Duncan find his rhythm. After Duncan's sudden burst of energy against the Kings, Parker immediately went back to him the next two trips down the floor. Duncan scored both times.

"He has so much responsibility for our team," Bowen said. "I think he's not getting shots that are open. There are times where we're not getting him the ball, and it almost keeps him out of (the offense)."

I have not watched a lot of games this season like many of you have the priviledge of having (in San Antonio), but 4-12 shooting seems like they are not getting him the ball. I think Bruce and Tony have it right.

[pache100]

Whatever. Sorry for being a fan and getting on the team that I cheer for. Apparently, I can only cheer for them and praise them when they're either winning or losing to sorry teams in the league. From now on I'll only say postivie things about the team and make sure never to QUESTION a member of the team.

By the way pache, that was me being sarcastic before you take everything I write and twist it around.

I said that argument ("He's not the only one in the world who is a new father.") was getting old, not you. Stop putting words in my mouth.

[boutons]

"they are not getting him the ball."

Teams have been fronting Tim, which everybody knows, if you can do it, is an effective tactic for neutralizing Tim, denying him the ball down low, so Tim fights around the defender, but ends up in jumpshooting land, where he either clangs his banker or puts the ball on the floor in heavy traffic, to be stripped, or fouled.

[Kip Fanatic]

So it would be better for them to lose to a team that actually matters? A team that we might see in the playoffs? A division rival that might edge us out for HCA because of that loss?

A loss is a loss. If you're going to have them, I would rather the loss be to a team that doesn't matter than a team that does. I don't understand the outrage over those losses, as if it were nobler to lose to a team that might affect your playoff standing.

As for making lots of money and having an easy job, that's entirely conjecture, don't you think? Unless you've been a factory worker and a professional ball player, I don't think you can judge. It is not as easy as it looks. I will not try to claim that there are not people working harder or longer for less money, but I will claim I don't understand what that argument has to do with Tim Duncan's slump.

My point is that I don't see Tim going at it 100%. Bascially. I don't know if he is injured. It was reported he was. OK. I can understand that. Some in here seem I can't, but I can.

What is confusing is that the article says he seems to be tired. OK. We all get tired, but a lot of us still go at 100%. Let's take Kobe Bryant for instance. I can't stand the guy, but he seems to always give it his all when he is on the court. He may take too many shots or whatever, but as far as passion goes, he gots it. No questions asked. So does AI. Yet, they don't have the supporting cast Tim has nor the coach that Tim has and play more minutes than Tim. They probably carry more of a load than Tim does because of the supporting cast they have on their teams. Do you seem them showing lack of passion on the floor? Heck no.

What made me respect Kobe's game even more was something that he said after the game against Washington. They were saying that he looked tired and what not and he admitted he was. Yet, he said he told his teammates that sometimes when you're tired and your legs are ready to give out, you have to will the ball in the basket. I remember many a times when I was working with my dad and I was tired as heck, but we had to have that house finished by this day and I didn't know where I would find the energy to go on, but I did. We all did.

[Extra Stout]

I remember many a times when I was working with my dad and I was tired as heck, but we had to have that house finished by this day and I didn't know where I would find the energy to go on, but I did. We all did.
That's not the same standard to which you are holding Tim. When you were working with your dad, nobody was expecting you to be the absolute best plumbing contract laborer in the world day in and day out. Your workmanship wasn't being measured against one of the 30 best construction crews in the country.

[pache100]

That's not the same standard to which you are holding Tim. When you were working with your dad, nobody was expecting you to be the absolute best plumbing contract laborer in the world day in and day out. Your workmanship wasn't being measured against one of the 30 best construction crews in the country.

I'd also be willing to bet he wasn't required to run up and down a 94' roof for 30-40 minutes at a stretch (with only short rest breaks), trying to nail as many shingles on as he possibly could - all the while trying to stop someone else from nailing shingles - at the same time he was bumping around with 5 6-7 footers out to get him as he drug them up and down the roof...all this after he'd been on a midnight/all-night flight from nowhere to nowhere after sitting on a runway in another nowhere for several hours because of bad weather...

If he was, I'd like to have seen that. Otherwise, I don't see the parallel.

[Kip Fanatic]

That's not the same standard to which you are holding Tim. When you were working with your dad, nobody was expecting you to be the absolute best plumbing contract laborer in the world day in and day out. Your workmanship wasn't being measured against one of the 30 best construction crews in the country.

Fair enough, but if you don't get the job done or do a poor job you wouldn't get another job and that means no money.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I'd also be willing to bet he wasn't required to run up and down a 94' roof for 30-40 minutes at a stretch (with only short rest breaks), trying to nail as many shingles on as he possibly could - all the while trying to stop someone else from nailing shingles - at the same time he was bumping around with 5 6-7 footers out to get him as he drug them up and down the roof...all this after he'd been on a midnight/all-night flight from nowhere to nowhere after sitting on a runway in another nowhere for several hours because of bad weather...

If he was, I'd like to have seen that. Otherwise, I don't see the parallel.

That actually sounds like a sport I'd like to see. If we start drawing up the paperwork now it might get into the 2012 Olympics.

[Kip Fanatic]

I'd also be willing to bet he wasn't required to run up and down a 94' roof for 30-40 minutes at a stretch (with only short rest breaks), trying to nail as many shingles on as he possibly could - all the while trying to stop someone else from nailing shingles - at the same time he was bumping around with 5 6-7 footers out to get him as he drug them up and down the roof...all this after he'd been on a midnight/all-night flight from nowhere to nowhere after sitting on a runway in another nowhere for several hours because of bad weather...

If he was, I'd like to have seen that. Otherwise, I don't see the parallel.

Get the heck out of here. We all know the life a NBA player is the hardest.

[pache100]

That actually sounds like a sport I'd like to see. If we start drawing up the paperwork now it might get into the 2012 Olympics.

Or, maybe ESPN's Great Outdoor Games 2006?

[pache100]

Get the heck out of here.

About 4:00.


We all know the life a NBA player is the hardest.

There you are, putting words in my mouth. Again.

[Extra Stout]

Fair enough, but if you don't get the job done or do a poor job you wouldn't get another job and that means no money.

In order to be comparable to your criticism of Tim, then you would have to be in a race to finish a house with an elite construction crew, where only the team that finishes first gets paid, and you can't have any slip-ups in workmanship.

[Kip Fanatic]

In order to be comparable to your criticism of Tim, then you would have to be in a race to finish a house with an elite construction crew, where only the team that finishes first gets paid, and you can't have any slip-ups in workmanship.

Bull!

[Extra Stout]

Bull!
Checkmate.

[Kip Fanatic]

About 4:00.



There you are, putting words in my mouth. Again.

Its called being sarcastic. Too bad you don't seem to understand that.

[pache100]

Its called being sarcastic. Too bad you don't seem to understand that.

:blah

Oh, I understand it. Perfectly.

[Kip Fanatic]

Checkmate.

Not really, but whatever melts your butter. Its just retarded to try to prove to YOU that my previous job was the same as Tim Duncan's job. We all know they aren't the same, but MOST of us know one is harder than the other. Too bad you're not in the MOST of us category.

[pache100]

MOST of us know one is harder than the other.

BINGO!

[Kip Fanatic]

BINGO!

Awe! How sad! You don't seem to be in the MOST of us category neither.

[Extra Stout]

Not really, but whatever melts your butter. Its just retarded to try to prove to YOU that my previous job was the same as Tim Duncan's job. We all know they aren't the same, but MOST of us know one is harder than the other. Too bad you're not in the MOST of us category.
If you know that the jobs aren't comparable, then why did you bring it up?

[Kip Fanatic]

If you know that the jobs aren't comparable, then why did you bring it up?

Let me ask you this? Would you rather be doing what Tim Duncan does for a living and getting paid what he get's paid or would you rather do what you do now?

[pache100]

Let me ask you this? Would you rather be doing what Tim Duncan does for a living and getting paid what he get's paid or would you rather do what you do now?

What Tim does? Unfortunately I don't have his TALENT. Therein lies the rub.

[Extra Stout]

Let me ask you this? Would you rather be doing what Tim Duncan does for a living and getting paid what he get's paid or would you rather do what you do now?
I don't have that choice because I don't have the skills Tim Duncan has.


I tied rebar with my dad from the age of 16-21 and was a plumbers helper after that for about two years. I would say working from sun up to sun down two or three days out of the week, bending over constantly to tie rebar, carrying loads of rebar on your shoulder, in the cold or hot is a lot harder on your body than running up and down a basketball court indoors.
I guess I didn't read this. It never occurred to me you actually were this stupid. You actually think that being a common unskilled laborer is more difficult than being the best player in the National Basketball Association.

Tim Duncan probably can run plumbing. I seriously fucking doubt you can pull down 20 points and ten rebounds a game in the NBA for nine consecutive years while leading your team to three titles.

And you're talking about plumbing? How stupid are you? Tim Duncan is freakin' Michelangelo painting frescoes on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel night in and night out, and you're bitching because occasionally his brush slips when he gets paint in his eye.

[Kip Fanatic]

What Tim does? Unfortunately I don't have his TALENT. Therein lies the rub.

Way to work around the question instead of answering it.

[pache100]

Way to work around the question instead of answering it.

I answered your question. What are you smoking?

[Kip Fanatic]

I answered your question. What are you smoking?

Sure you did.

[pache100]

Sure you did.

Now who's not reading whose posts? I said I'd rather do what Tim Duncan does. But, unfortunately I'm not qualified. I don't know how I can make it any plainer than that.

:spin

[Extra Stout]

Hey, the guy that does my neighbor's landscaping works really hard all day long.

By Kip's logic, he should be the Spurs' new power forward. I'm sure that his terrific work ethic will allow him to execute perfect footwork in the paint, thread the needle with his passes, and outquick opposing forwards for rebounding position, no matter how tired he is, because basketball skills are no different than pulling weeds.

[pache100]

Hey, the guy that does my neighbor's landscaping works really hard all day long.

By Kip's logic, he should be the Spurs' new power forward. I'm sure that his terrific work ethic will allow him to execute perfect footwork in the paint, thread the needle with his passes, and outquick opposing forwards for rebounding position, no matter how tired he is, because basketball skills are no different than pulling weeds.

Well, I'm a federal government IT worker; I want to be the point guard.

[Kip Fanatic]

Hey, the guy that does my neighbor's landscaping works really hard all day long.

By Kip's logic, he should be the Spurs' new power forward. I'm sure that his terrific work ethic will allow him to execute perfect footwork in the paint, thread the needle with his passes, and outquick opposing forwards for rebounding position, no matter how tired he is, because basketball skills are no different than pulling weeds.

:rolleyes

I'm not trying to say that landscaping, plumbing, or working for an insurance company is the same as playing at the highest level of professional basketball. What I was saying (which you obviously didn't seem to understnad) was that working as a plumber's helper, or construction is a lot more tiring than playing basketball for about 30 minutes three to four days out of the week.

If you think that the life of a NBA player is hard, read this.
"It's crazy how much they give us," said fellow Jazz rookie C.J. Miles. "They give us money to eat on the road, and then they give us food, too." The collective-bargaining agreement between the NBA and its players association spells out the rules for per-diem: Each player is due $102 for every day the team is on the road. It's broken down even more specifically, based on what time the team departs from or arrives back home. If the team isn't in Salt Lake, each player is allotted $18.36 for breakfast, $28.56 for lunch and $55.08 for dinner." Salt Lake Tribune

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Teams have been fronting Tim, which everybody knows, if you can do it, is an effective tactic for neutralizing Tim, denying him the ball down low, so Tim fights around the defender, but ends up in jumpshooting land, where he either clangs his banker or puts the ball on the floor in heavy traffic, to be stripped, or fouled

Actually anyone who had watched us play this year would know that when teams front TD we usually make a quick pass to the top of the key, and that player has a better angle to get it into Tim (and usually does).

[Extra Stout]

I'm not trying to say that landscaping, plumbing, or working for an insurance company is the same as playing at the highest level of professional basketball. What I was saying (which you obviously didn't seem to understnad) was that working as a plumber's helper, or construction is a lot more tiring than playing basketball for about 30 minutes three to four days out of the week.
Yes, it's more tiring to do outside labor than to be a surgeon. However, I'm guessing you'd like your surgeon to be extremely well-rested, given that the level of skill necessary to do his job is so much higher, and his margin of error is so much smaller than it is for unskilled jobs.

Fatigue shows up a lot more quickly and impairs performance a lot more doing a job like Tim Duncan's, even if he is not actually as fatigued physically as the outside laborer, because the skill and precision involved in doing his job is so much greater.

[Kip Fanatic]

Man, life in the NBA is so hard. You have to run up and down a court for about 30 or so minutes if you're a starter. Not only that. You have to try and score. Wait. It gets worse. You have to defend and pull down rebounds. Not only that folks, you have to pass the ball the right way and dribble. You have to do this for about 3-4 nights a week. Then you have to travel in a private jet and stay in the best hotels in the world. Let me tell you it still gets worse. Read this:


CLEVELAND - The day before he left for Jazz training camp in Boise, Robert Whaley found an envelope with a check in it taped to his locker. Made out to him. For more than $1,200. With no explanation.
"It was great. I didn't know what it was, but everyone got them," Whaley said, shaking his head. "I thought it was just free money."
It was, sort of.
Amazing as it may sound in a league where even the minimum-wage scrubs earn more than $4,400 per game, NBA players are compensated in plenty of other ways, too. When they are traded, their new teams pick up moving expenses and six weeks of hotel bills. When they feel tense, the team's traveling masseuse kneads the kinks out of their muscles. When they need shoes, various companies inundate them with free goods.
And best of all, the players say - when they travel, the team hands out meal money.
"It's crazy how much they give us," said fellow Jazz rookie C.J. Miles. "They give us money to eat on the road, and then they give us food, too."
The collective-bargaining agreement between the NBA and its players association spells out the rules for per-diem: Each player is due $102 for every day the team is on the road. It's broken down even more specifically, based on what time the team departs from or arrives back home. If the team isn't in Salt Lake, each player is allotted $18.36 for breakfast, $28.56 for lunch and $55.08 for dinner.
And if that seems like a lot of money, be assured that the players think so too. Not that they're complaining.
"Honestly? I can't say I ever spend $100 a day," said Jazz guard Devin Brown, who bragged that his December per diem funded 30 new DVDs for his collection. "Most guys probably end up pocketing about half of it."
Or more. Guard Andre Owens, who proudly calls himself "the cheapest guy on the team," figures if he spends $20 a day, that's a lot. "Just because they give it doesn't mean I have to spend it," he said.
Sometimes it's difficult to spend it, actually. After tonight's game against the Cavs, for instance, the Jazz will head to their chartered jet and fly to Boston. While en route, the players will be served restaurant-quality meals, with trays of appetizers, salads, a selection of three or four entrees, and plates of cookies, pies or ice cream for dessert.
Wednesday morning, there will be a team breakfast in Boston, customary when the Jazz play back-to-back games. When the players arrive at the arena, light snacks and fruit will be on a table in the locker room. (In Dallas, the Mavs provide a full buffet for visiting teams.) That's a full day of meals, without ever spending a dime, much less $102.
Cha-ching.
"I still have some of my meal money left over from last month," Miles said almost sheepishly. "The other day, I went to the mall in [Indianapolis]. I think I used some to buy some hats."
That's not uncommon. In fact, many young players try to live off their monthly perdiem check, and never touch their salaries. "We got, like, $1,100 for December," Whaley said. "I mean, c'mon - there's no way in a month's time you should spend $1,100 on food. I went and bought a bunch of groceries with it. I can cook my own meals at home."
Even if players try to spend their food allowance, it's not always so easy. Miles has been shocked at how often he is recognized in Salt Lake restaurants, and how frequently his meal is comped because of who he is.
"A lot of times, they'll give you a big discount or they won't even make
you pay for it," the 18-year-old rookie said. "Especially if you're a regular, people are like, 'Don't worry about it.' ''
Per diem used to be paid in cash, handed out before every road trip by the team's trainer. Jazz coach Jerry Sloan recalls longtime trainer Don Sparks "walking around carrying $12-15,000 in his boots if it was a long trip."
These days, it's all handled by check, mostly because the IRS now requires that meal money above a certain level (and different amounts in every city) be taxed as income, a headache that the accounting department handles.
No one is happier about that than the Jazz's current trainer, Gary Briggs. He used to waste hundreds of hours in the 1980s and 90s, when he was the Cavaliers' trainer, drawing a check from the team, cashing it, locking himself in his office and divvying it up between players, coaches and the rest of the traveling party.
When notoriously cheap Ted Stepien owned the Cavs, Briggs said, there was even more trouble. "I actually had a per diem check that the bank wouldn't cash because there weren't sufficient funds," he recalled. "I went ballistic."
Veteran players tend to use far more of their per diem check, mostly because they usually have million-dollar salaries and don't need to scrimp.
"When I was a rookie, I didn't know much about nutrition, and I wanted to pocket the money. So I would find a Subway [sandwich shop] and have a sandwich, chips and a coke as a pregame meal," said Matt Harpring, who now earns $5 million a year, right around the NBA average. "I did Burger King a few times. But the worse you eat, the worse you play, so now I try to eat three good meals a day. And where we stay, that's expensive."
Like many NBA players, he likes to rest in the afternoon and order room service - which can make $102 disappear in a hurry. For instance, at the Cleveland Ritz Carlton, where the Jazz are staying, a New York steak costs $39. A salad is $16, and chicken is extra. Even a peanut-butter sandwich goes for $5.
Briggs recalls ordering oatmeal, toast and orange juice at the Essex House in New York, and being shocked when the bill came to $35.
"After shootaround, if I order chicken and pasta, that might be $40 before tip," Harpring added. "The young guys might keep their perdiem, but I use it."
So does Greg Ostertag, and not just on meals. The Jazz's oldest (and highest-earning, career-wise) player said he spreads his per diem out in gratuities, too, for valets, waiters, even clubhouse boys. "I might be the best tipper in the league," Ostertag joked. "It keeps them from spitting in your food."

Man. That job sounds very tiring. I'd much rather do labor five to six days out of the week in the cold or heat. Eat leftover's or some sandwich from home and get paid about $10-15/hour.

Signed,
Extra Stout

[pache100]

Man, life in the NBA is so hard.

Let me ask you this...if it's so freakin' EASY, why don't you walk on and rake in some of the big bucks????? :lol

[Kip Fanatic]

Yes, it's more tiring to do outside labor than to be a surgeon. However, I'm guessing you'd like your surgeon to be extremely well-rested, given that the level of skill necessary to do his job is so much higher, and his margin of error is so much smaller than it is for unskilled jobs.

Fatigue shows up a lot more quickly and impairs performance a lot more doing a job like Tim Duncan's, even if he is not actually as fatigued physically as the outside laborer, because the skill and precision involved in doing his job is so much greater.

Yeah. It takes no skill out how to figure out how not to make a house or a commercial building's foundation sound. Its so easy. Man, no math skills involved. You can do it with you're eyes close. Don't worry, you won't cut your cut with the torch. Don't worry about when the foundation of a huge building starts to crack and the plumbing pipes start to burst. It can be fixed in no time. Even a baby can do it.

You're such an idiot Extra.

[smeagol]

Give it up Kip. You've been owned.

[pache100]

You're such an idiot Extra.

Here we go again. When all else fails...hurl the insults. :depressed

[Extra Stout]

Yeah. It takes no skill out how to figure out how not to make a house or a commercial building's foundation sound. Its so easy. Man, no math skills involved. You can do it with you're eyes close. Don't worry, you won't cut your cut with the torch. Don't worry about when the foundation of a huge building starts to crack and the plumbing pipes start to burst. It can be fixed in no time. Even a baby can do it.

You're such an idiot Extra.
Right... because that weary plumber's helper is going to design the foundation in between tying rebar, rather than the licensed civil engineer sitting in an cushy office somewhere.

Just shut the fuck up.

[Extra Stout]

Man. That job sounds very tiring. I'd much rather do labor five to six days out of the week in the cold or heat. Eat leftover's or some sandwich from home and get paid about $10-15/hour.
Doctors get paid a lot of money, so fatigue shouldn't affect their performance at all. Therefore, I expect that you will let a resident who has awake for 48 hours do life-threatening surgery on you. It shouldn't make any difference because the doctor is rich and drives a Lexus.

[easjer]

I think that Kip is forgetting about the amount of practice time, warm up time, weight room time, rehab time, player appearance and mandated charity appearance time is required.

It's not just showing up three or four times a week and running around for thirty minutes while cashing their checks.

Yeah, NBA players bank. As do others who work in highly specialized fields outside of sports. Hell, when my grandmother was a nurse, she didn't make what I do now. If I go to nursing school, I can get a hospital to pay for it, work part time and bank well over my current salary - because it's becoming a specialized field.

Your argument is not working, friend.

[Extra Stout]

Your argument is not working, friend.
Kip is sooooooooo San Antonio.

[Kip Fanatic]

Right... because that weary plumber's helper is going to design the foundation in between tying rebar, rather than the licensed civil engineer sitting in an cushy office somewhere.

Just shut the fuck up.

Again, if you were to have read my posts carefully you would have learned that I was not only a plumber's helper for a while, but also worked for my dad's company, which tied rebar for homes and commercial buildings. This isn't about me though. You make it seem like being a NBA player take's a bachelor's degree. Not so. You pretty much said that laborer's don't need to have any skill what so ever. That playing in the NBA is far more difficult. Yeah.

[Kip Fanatic]

Doctors get paid a lot of money, so fatigue shouldn't affect their performance at all. Therefore, I expect that you will let a resident who has awake for 48 hours do life-threatening surgery on you. It shouldn't make any difference because the doctor is rich and drives a Lexus.

I never said that it doesn't take skill to play in the NBA. Yet, you say that people who have labor jobs don't have to use their minds at all just their hands and legs.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

[Extra Stout]

Again, if you were to have read my posts carefully you would have learned that I was not only a plumber's helper for a while, but also worked for my dad's company, which tied rebar for homes and commercial buildings. This isn't about me though. You make it seem like being a NBA player take's a bachelor's degree. Not so. You pretty much said that laborer's don't need to have any skill what so ever. That playing in the NBA is far more difficult. Yeah.
Being an All-NBA forward requires a level of skill that half a dozen people on planet Earth have. There are millions of people in the United States who can do what you do.

[Kip Fanatic]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

I saw that a long time ago. They're the same people who think OJ didn't do it.

[E20]

Bottom line is Timmy is declining, maybe because of age, but it's more so of all the talent around him, if Micheal Finley is open in the corner Timmy is smart enough to give him the easy 15-20 footer rather than go one on one with his defender.

[pache100]

But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.

It doesn't have anything to do with "seeing the truth"; it doesn't have anything to do with this board (or the posters on it or where their loyalties are); it doesn't have anything to do with the Spurs team or players or Tim Duncan. It has to do with common sense. Kip's not using any.

[Leetonidas]

I really don't think the Spurs are tired, the problem is very simple.

Overconfidence.

The Spurs have had many big leads (for example, the 17 point lead against Sacramento) and they get all relaxed thinking it's in the bag and then before they can react, the lead is down to 3. This happens every year. If you haven't noticed, aside from Dallas, the Spurs have lost to bad teams (Washington, Atlanta, Chicago, and New Orleans...okay not all of them are that terrible, but they're definetly inferior to the Spurs) and it's because the Spurs expect a victory and tend to play at the team they're playings level. The first have is usually fine but they get their ass kicked in the end of the 3rd and 4th.

The Spurs just need to focus and stop buying into all the media's hype. They're the favorites for once, and I think they're starting to buy into this "unbeatable" crap.

[E20]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.
Getting there in the NBA is hell, I mean you have to play ball for 7 hours a day just to make the cut, I've read about players sleeping in gyms just to play ball, but once you make the NBA you gotta work even harder to stay on top to outplay your competition and to get a contract/succeed.

What I'm trying to say is that most NBA players have worked really hard on there game and bodies to get where they're at.

[Extra Stout]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.
So typical San Antonio. "Why does that doctor in the Dominion get to drive a Lexus while I drive my '84 Celebrity with primer fenders and no A/C? I bet I work harder than him. He just walks around his office all day writing prescriptions."

[Extra Stout]

Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player.
If it's so much easier and pays so much better, then why aren't you in the NBA?

[pache100]

If it's so much easier and pays so much better, then why aren't you in the NBA?

I don't think he's gonna answer that question, ES. He didn't answer when I asked it.


Let me ask you this...if it's so freakin' EASY, why don't you walk on and rake in some of the big bucks????? :lol

[Extra Stout]

I don't think he's gonna answer that question, ES. He didn't answer when I asked it.
This is just typical San Antonio class war bullshit being projected on Tim Duncan.

"My life sucks, I work long weeks for crappy pay, and my only escape is watching the Spurs. My emotional well-being rises and falls with wins and losses.

So panoche Tim Duncan, I no wanna hear that chu tired, you rich motherfucker!"

We got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen delivery
We got to move these refrigerators
We got to move these color TV's

[easjer]

Kip why are you trying? Everybody knows most regular jobs are harder than being an NBA player. That's a no-brainer. But no one on this board is going to accept what you say even though they can see the truth for themselves. This is a board for die-hard Spurs fans. You're not going to get many people to agree with you about anything negative about the team, that includes the fact that the players aren't playing as hard as they should for the money they make.


Please, enlighten me. How hard should they be playing? Because I think they are just fine. 19-5. That's really tragic, isn't it? Second best record in the league is such an awful place to be.

Would I like it if Timmy were more dominant? I guess, if that could happen without a decline in the performance around him. Would I like to see more consistent play? Yeah. I would. But I'm not going to be all that concerned in December. I've already seen improvement, and know that these close games are going to make them a better team.

Since Duncan has been with the team, they've never had that fire or desire that everyone is criticizing. Instead, they've focused on gradual improvement and been on fire in March. If this is still their attitude in late January or February, I'll be concerned.

It's such a ridiculous statement. I'll be among the first to criticize their lack of cohesive defense and bemoan their screwup turnovers. It's not about not criticizing the team, it's about recognizing a couple of things: There ain't much to criticize and when you've taken to bitching about some perceived lack of effort and HCA in DECEMBER you should remember what is fun about basketball and rooting for a team and lose the sense of entitlement. Also, there are no awards for hustling in November or December. What matters is what happens in April, May and ultimately, June. Their track record there is pretty good.

As for Kip - his statements are just silly. Duncan is not allowed to be tired because he's a millionaire and people work harder than he does making less money. What does that have to do with having a highly selective skill? Nothing. Anyone is allowed to be tired and his arguments otherwise are eye-roll inducing.

And why you are on such a tear to rip apart the team and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a blind homer is beyond me.

[Kip Fanatic]

So typical San Antonio. "Why does that doctor in the Dominion get to drive a Lexus while I drive my '84 Celebrity with primer fenders and no A/C? I bet I work harder than him. He just walks around his office all day writing prescriptions."

You got off of the topic a long time ago, but I'll respond. I don't live in San Antonio. I grew up in San Antonio and live a short drive away now. I don't drive a Celebrity or Lumina. I have three vehicles (owned) and own several houses. I did that by hard work and stepping out on faith to start my own business.

I use to envy those who lived in the Dominion especially when I had to spend my summers working there at times with my dad. However, my dad showed me the way to success. Hard work. Now I have live in a home that is paid for and worth a good amount and own a few others, but I pray that I sell them because that's what I do.

My point when I responded to this thread earlier this morning was that its weird to ME (not saying that everyone has to see it like ME) that it was stated that Tim was tired. I dont' understand how he can be tired when he took the summer off this off-season. I recall a lot of people here saying Tim should have a career year because of the time off and that he looks trim and in great shape. I also stated he doesn't and a few others on the team don't seem to be playing with that much passion this season. That was my point. I wasn't saying he job doesn't require skill nor that's its easy.

You took it to another subject when you said that people who have labor jobs don't have to use their heads as much as a player in the NBA does.

[pache100]

As for Kip - his statements are just silly. Duncan is not allowed to be tired because he's a millionaire and people work harder than he does making less money. What does that have to do with having a highly selective skill? Nothing. Anyone is allowed to be tired and his arguments otherwise are eye-roll inducing.

Yep! http://tinypic.com/iwmd1s.gif


And why you are on such a tear to rip apart the team and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a blind homer is beyond me.


http://tinypic.com/iwmd7q.gif

[Kip Fanatic]

Please, enlighten me. How hard should they be playing? Because I think they are just fine. 19-5. That's really tragic, isn't it? Second best record in the league is such an awful place to be.

Would I like it if Timmy were more dominant? I guess, if that could happen without a decline in the performance around him. Would I like to see more consistent play? Yeah. I would. But I'm not going to be all that concerned in December. I've already seen improvement, and know that these close games are going to make them a better team.

Since Duncan has been with the team, they've never had that fire or desire that everyone is criticizing. Instead, they've focused on gradual improvement and been on fire in March. If this is still their attitude in late January or February, I'll be concerned.

It's such a ridiculous statement. I'll be among the first to criticize their lack of cohesive defense and bemoan their screwup turnovers. It's not about not criticizing the team, it's about recognizing a couple of things: There ain't much to criticize and when you've taken to bitching about some perceived lack of effort and HCA in DECEMBER you should remember what is fun about basketball and rooting for a team and lose the sense of entitlement. Also, there are no awards for hustling in November or December. What matters is what happens in April, May and ultimately, June. Their track record there is pretty good.

As for Kip - his statements are just silly. Duncan is not allowed to be tired because he's a millionaire and people work harder than he does making less money. What does that have to do with having a highly selective skill? Nothing. Anyone is allowed to be tired and his arguments otherwise are eye-roll inducing.

And why you are on such a tear to rip apart the team and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a blind homer is beyond me.

You missed my point. Its cool. I'm not going to lose sleep because you and a few others didn't understand my initial post.

To be honest I don't think you deserve to be successful if you don't work hard. Obviously Tim and almost all professional athletes work hard. I never said they didn't. Please take some time to read my initial post.

[E20]

Would the Spurs ever trade Tim like the Rockets did Hakeem?

[tim_duncan_fan]

If it's so much easier and pays so much better, then why aren't you in the NBA?

You must be extremely stupid if you think you can make a relevant point with this question. I'm not in the NBA because my basketball skills are not on that level. But what does this question have to do with whether or not an NBA player's job is easier than that of the average guy? Let me answer that myself:

Nothing.

[Kip Fanatic]

I don't think he's gonna answer that question, ES. He didn't answer when I asked it.

I wasn't born with the skill or athleticism to play a professional sport. Therefore, I can't play in the NBA, NFL, MLB and the like. God has given each individual a certain gift. Mine isn't putting a ball through a hoop or hitting a 96mph fastball.

However, that doesn't make me a bitter Mexican who lives in San Antonio that lives in a crappy neighborhood and drives a car with a broken taillight.

[pache100]

You got off of the topic a long time ago, but I'll respond.

You took it to another subject when you said that people who have labor jobs don't have to use their heads as much as a player in the NBA does.

Nope. Here's where all that crap came up:


In that article it says that Tim Duncan looks tired. Of what? Playing video games up until 3am? He didn't play any basketball this off-season. Many were saying that he looked like he was in great shape and had an extra bounce to him. What happend? All of sudden 20+ games later he's tired. That's a joke.

The dude plays basketball for 30+ minutes a game. They play no more than four games a week. I can understand him being a little tired, but come on. Give me a break. He gets paid 10+ millions of dollars a year to do this. Suck it up.

Before starting my own business, I was a plumber's helper making $13.25/hour. I had to work Monday thru Friday from 7am to 4pm and sometimes later than that. I was tired, but I couldn't slack or else I would be out of a job.

And, again...


I'm not saying that I don't understand the fact that having a newborn can be tiring. I'm just saying you make it seem like he's the only one. I don't have a regular desk job and worked laboring jobs before I started this small business.

I tied rebar with my dad from the age of 16-21 and was a plumbers helper after that for about two years. I would say working from sun up to sun down two or three days out of the week, bending over constantly to tie rebar, carrying loads of rebar on your shoulder, in the cold or hot is a lot harder on your body than running up and down a basketball court indoors.

As for all that other bull$#!* in that post above about your life...WTF cares??????

[pache100]

You missed my point. Its cool. I'm not going to lose sleep because you and a few others didn't understand my initial post.

Please take some time to read my initial post.

Again...WE UNDERSTAND; WE DO NOT AGREE. Just because someone disagrees with you, does not mean that they "don't get it". That's arrogant and assinine to assume that. Furthermore, because WE DISAGREE, does not mean that we are not reading your posts!

[Kip Fanatic]

Nope. Here's where all that crap came up:



And, again...



As for all that other bull$#!* in that post above about your life...WTF cares??????

You do, because you asked me if it were so easy to play in the NBA why didn't I. I answered you and wanted to clarify to Extra Stout and yourself that because I believe playing in the NBA is a lot easier than almost every other job out there doesn't make me a typical San Antonio resident who is bitter about other's being wealthy.

[pache100]

You do, because you asked me if it were so easy to play in the NBA why didn't I.

Have you ever heard of a rhetorical question? And, once again, you are wrong...you have me confused with someone who gives a shit about what you do, where you live, or what you drive. I could not care less. And again, none of that has anything to do with why, if you think it's so freakin' EASY, you are not a hotshot in the NBA.

[Kip Fanatic]

Have you ever heard of a rhetorical question? And, once again, you are wrong...you have me confused with someone who gives a shit about what you do, where you live, or what you drive. I could not care less. And again, none of that has anything to do with why, if you think it's so freakin' EASY, you are not a hotshot in the NBA.

I could care less if you care about what I'm about. I'm not here to do have you or anyone else care about me. I have family and friends that do that and its enough for me. I was not addressing you when I was writing all of that. I was addressing ES. And again, I never said it was easy to play in the NBA. Just was wondering what Tim Duncan was so tired from.

[Extra Stout]

You took it to another subject when you said that people who have labor jobs don't have to use their heads as much as a player in the NBA does.
No, I didn't say that Tim has to use his head more than a laborer. He's a basketball player, not a lawyer or a physicist.

What I said is that Tim has a highly specialized skill that almost nobody else in the world has. He does something that you or I never, ever, could have a prayer of doing, no matter how hard we worked. We would embarrass ourselves if we tried.

And he has proven over and over again that he is the absolute best at what he does. He got there despite not having the greatest athletic gifts in the world, but by practicing and working and practicing and working and sweating every last detail for years and years. And you're belittling it like it's easy, and bitching because he is not performing at his absolute peak 100% of the time. You're acting as if he must just not care about his job because he goes into a little funk four months before the playoffs start.

And, yeah, I think it stems from that goofy populist mindset in the city where you grew up. You're all caught up in how much money he makes and how many perks there are in the NBA. They get those perks because their unique skills are so valuable to their employers. You expect their compensation packages to make them superhuman. Is it reasonable? No. But I think that's the point. You don't want to be reasonable because you were raised to have contempt for people in Timmy's shoes.

[pache100]

I was not addressing you when I was writing all of that.

Well, excuse the hell out of me.

[Extra Stout]

You do, because you asked me if it were so easy to play in the NBA why didn't I. I answered you and wanted to clarify to Extra Stout and yourself that because I believe playing in the NBA is a lot easier than almost every other job out there doesn't make me a typical San Antonio resident who is bitter about other's being wealthy.
It makes you a San Antonio native who was raised to resent that in the real world there is not a correlation between toil and pay.

[Kip Fanatic]

No, I didn't say that Tim has to use his head more than a laborer. He's a basketball player, not a lawyer or a physicist.

What I said is that Tim has a highly specialized skill that almost nobody else in the world has. He does something that you or I never, ever, could have a prayer of doing, no matter how hard we worked. We would embarrass ourselves if we tried.

And he has proven over and over again that he is the absolute best at what he does. He got there despite not having the greatest athletic gifts in the world, but by practicing and working and practicing and working and sweating every last detail for years and years. And you're belittling it like it's easy, and bitching because he is not performing at his absolute peak 100% of the time. You're acting as if he must just not care about his job because he goes into a little funk four months before the playoffs start.

And, yeah, I think it stems from that goofy populist mindset in the city where you grew up. You're all caught up in how much money he makes and how many perks there are in the NBA. They get those perks because their unique skills are so valuable to their employers. You expect their compensation packages to make them superhuman. Is it reasonable? No. But I think that's the point. You don't want to be reasonable because you were raised to have contempt for people in Timmy's shoes.

You have no idea of how I was raised, but that's not the subject here. My point/opinion is that Tim Duncan seems less passionate than a lot of players in this league. My point/opinion is that its weird that the article states he seems to be tired. Once again. This is an opnion of mine. Not yours.

[Kip Fanatic]

It makes you a San Antonio native who was raised to resent that in the real world there is not a correlation between toil and pay.

Yeah. That's exactly how I feel.

You couldn't be further from the truth. Its cool though.

[Extra Stout]

You missed my point. Its cool. I'm not going to lose sleep because you and a few others didn't understand my initial post.

To be honest I don't think you deserve to be successful if you don't work hard. Obviously Tim and almost all professional athletes work hard. I never said they didn't. Please take some time to read my initial post.
And you also believe that your degree of success should be proportional to effort.

And yet instead, success is tied more to productivity, which for some people requires less effort than others.

And that pisses you off. So you rail on people when you think their wealth exceeds what you think they deserve based upon their effort. And in Tim Duncan's case, with what that son of a bitch makes, he better be sweating blood every night and playing on two broken legs if that's what it takes.

[spurjur]

And you also believe that your degree of success should be proportional to effort.

And yet instead, success is tied more to productivity, which for some people requires less effort than others.

And that pisses you off. So you rail on people when you think their wealth exceeds what you think they deserve based upon their effort. And in Tim Duncan's case, with what that son of a bitch makes, he better be sweating blood every night and playing on two broken legs if that's what it takes.

Damn! Who pissed in this guy's Capt'n Crunch?

[Extra Stout]

Y'know, if this were a conversation about Zach Randolph, I'd be all over him. There's a case of a guy coasting on his physical gifts.

But not Tim Duncan. Not the guy who's best in his field. Cracking on him is just playa hate.

But we heard a lot of the same crap about David Robinson ten years ago... from some. The spotlight comes with a bulls-eye.

[pache100]

So you rail on people when you think their wealth exceeds what you think they deserve based upon their effort. And in Tim Duncan's case, with what that son of a bitch makes, he better be sweating blood every night and playing on two broken legs if that's what it takes.

And never EVER say he's tired. Because he has no right.

[Extra Stout]

And never EVER say he's tired. Because he has no right.
He has no excuse. When he gets his per diem check that should charge his tanks right up.

Winning the championship is no longer enough. For $14 million a year, he should be winning three NBA championships every season AND the MVP AND DOPY AND Coach of the Year. That bastard.

[pache100]

He has no excuse. When he gets his per diem check that should charge his tanks right up.

Winning the championship is no longer enough. For $14 million a year, he should be winning three NBA championships every season AND the MVP AND DOPY AND Coach of the Year. That bastard.

:lol

[Extra Stout]

I looked it up. Tim Duncan only shoots 50% from the field! Dammit, if only half the houses I build stayed standing, I'd be out of business, and I don't make near what he makes! He has it so easy! How hard is it to shoot a ball in a basket compared to what I do!

If he's not shooting 100%, then he's not working hard enough. He has no passion. Never mind that he has all that hardware and that other pedigreed NBA players are flocking to get one of the Spurs's roster spots so they can be his teammate. He goes through a funk a couple weeks a year, so he's lazy.

[kris]

I think that Kip is forgetting about the amount of practice time, warm up time, weight room time, rehab time, player appearance and mandated charity appearance time is required.

It's not just showing up three or four times a week and running around for thirty minutes while cashing their checks.

Yeah, NBA players bank. As do others who work in highly specialized fields outside of sports. Hell, when my grandmother was a nurse, she didn't make what I do now. If I go to nursing school, I can get a hospital to pay for it, work part time and bank well over my current salary - because it's becoming a specialized field.

Your argument is not working, friend.


Being a NBA player is the easiest job in the world. You go out and play basketball. When you use signing autographs to make it sound taxing it really makes it sound easy.

Your argument is not working.

[Extra Stout]

Kip, I sure hope you don't follow baseball. Would you believe those guys get paid millions and yet they miss the baseball 70% of the time? Can you imagine if only 30% of your homes passed inspection?

And often they go through extended slumps, which they blame on the fatigue of playing every day! You work every day! Baseball would make your blood boil, I recommend staying away from it.

[kris]

No, I didn't say that Tim has to use his head more than a laborer. He's a basketball player, not a lawyer or a physicist.

What I said is that Tim has a highly specialized skill that almost nobody else in the world has. He does something that you or I never, ever, could have a prayer of doing, no matter how hard we worked. We would embarrass ourselves if we tried.

And he has proven over and over again that he is the absolute best at what he does. He got there despite not having the greatest athletic gifts in the world, but by practicing and working and practicing and working and sweating every last detail for years and years. And you're belittling it like it's easy, and bitching because he is not performing at his absolute peak 100% of the time. You're acting as if he must just not care about his job because he goes into a little funk four months before the playoffs start.

And, yeah, I think it stems from that goofy populist mindset in the city where you grew up. You're all caught up in how much money he makes and how many perks there are in the NBA. They get those perks because their unique skills are so valuable to their employers. You expect their compensation packages to make them superhuman. Is it reasonable? No. But I think that's the point. You don't want to be reasonable because you were raised to have contempt for people in Timmy's shoes.

The guy you are describing is John Stockton, not Tim Duncan.

[Brutalis]

I never realized until today how many personal comments are silently included into posts about the Spurs directed towards other members as some insult or cheap shot. I am aware the ones I see doing this probably know each other. But did you ever think to the other 100 people reading the thread how much of a jackass you end up looking like? Or does anyone care about that either.

[Extra Stout]

Being a NBA player is the easiest job in the world. You go out and play basketball. When you use signing autographs to make it sound taxing it really makes it sound easy.

Your argument is not working.
Give Kevin McHale a call and tell him that.

He'd come over and kick your ass, except he can hardly walk now.

[spurjur]

Being a NBA player is the easiest job in the world. You go out and play basketball. When you use signing autographs to make it sound taxing it really makes it sound easy.

Your argument is not working.

Watch out! These guys in here will get on you for saying something like that. I think they work for the Players Association.

[kris]

I looked it up. Tim Duncan only shoots 50% from the field! Dammit, if only half the houses I build stayed standing, I'd be out of business, and I don't make near what he makes! He has it so easy! How hard is it to shoot a ball in a basket compared to what I do!

If he's not shooting 100%, then he's not working hard enough. He has no passion. Never mind that he has all that hardware and that other pedigreed NBA players are flocking to get one of the Spurs's roster spots so they can be his teammate. He goes through a funk a couple weeks a year, so he's lazy.

You're really good at oversimplifying and taking things out of context.

[Brutalis]

Being a NBA player is the easiest job in the world. You go out and play basketball. When you use signing autographs to make it sound taxing it really makes it sound easy.

Your argument is not working.
Some people can ruin it for themselves with stupid comments such as this. I give it a 10.

[Extra Stout]

The guy you are describing is John Stockton, not Tim Duncan.
Right, because Tim Duncan is just as much an athlete as Kevin Garnett.

Of course, you'd probably say Garnett is a warrior because he makes faces on the court. That's a better barometer of success than rings.

[easjer]

My point is not that signing autographs was hard, my point was that there is much more to the job than simply running up and down a court for thiry minutes three times a week, as Kip originally stated.

It's a specialized job. I can't say how hard it is - I'm not an NBA player. I have no basis to compare my job to an NBA player's job. I can compare my job to other jobs I've worked, but that's it.

I know it takes a lot of skill and practice in order to be half as good as Tim Duncan is. That practice and conditioning is not easy.

[kris]

Watch out! These guys in here will get on you for saying something like that. I think they work for the Players Association.

I don't care what anybody says - if you play basketball (NBA) for a living, you've got it on easy street.

[pache100]

Right, because Tim Duncan is just as much an athlete as Kevin Garnett.



No, Tim Duncan is not athletic. We've been down that road before and I never came back. I was told, in no uncertain terms, that Tim is definitely NOT an athlete.

[pache100]

I don't care what anybody says - if you play basketball (NBA) for a living, you've got it on easy street.

And you know this because you are an NBA basketball player? What's your real name!?!?!?

[Brutalis]

So what are the conditions and titles of being an athlete?

And, he isnt athletic? Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with people today...

[pache100]

So what are the conditions and titles of being an athlete?

And, he isnt athletic? Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with people today...

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30391&highlight=Duncan+athletic

I think there was another thread, too, but I can't find it.

[spurjur]

And you know this because you are an NBA basketball player? What's your real name!?!?!?

I have read just about every post in this thread. I have held back, but it seems there are a few who think that playing in the NBA is easy. The ones who think this way are being questioned how they know this if they don't play in the NBA.

Then there are those who feel like they know that playing in the NBA is hard. Yet no one has asked them how do they know its hard when they don't play in the NBA?????

[Brutalis]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30391&highlight=Duncan+athletic

I think there was another thread, too, but I can't find it.
Rofl dude

The question was Tim isn't atheltic, not AS althetic compared to other players.

geez. All I saw was "tim isn't"

In which he IS. Maybe not as much as others. But he is..

[kris]

My point is not that signing autographs was hard, my point was that there is much more to the job than simply running up and down a court for thiry minutes three times a week, as Kip originally stated.

It's a specialized job. I can't say how hard it is - I'm not an NBA player. I have no basis to compare my job to an NBA player's job. I can compare my job to other jobs I've worked, but that's it.

I know it takes a lot of skill and practice in order to be half as good as Tim Duncan is. That practice and conditioning is not easy.

You can say how hard it is. Have you played basketball before? It's just like playing basketball with other people on your level except they are on the highest level. You don't have to have played in the NBA to judge how hard it is. Maybe in some wierd way where the fame turns really negative like in the case of Manu, but that's pretty attenuated.

I don't know if anybody knows it, but Tim Duncan is a natural. The game comes much easier for him than it does for everybody else. I think he played a lot of street ball in the VI, Dave Odom incorporated some footwork knowledge and stuff like that, and Tim Duncan took it from there. He's not some self made guy who made himself into a NBA player. I'm not saying he didn't endure all the Wake practices, I'm just saying he's not the John Crotty or Avery Johnson that is being described.

[pache100]

I have read just about every post in this thread. I have held back, but it seems there are a few who think that playing in the NBA is easy. The ones who think this way are being questioned how they know this if they don't play in the NBA.

Then there are those who feel like they know that playing in the NBA is hard. Yet no one has asked them how do they know its hard when they don't play in the NBA?????

I don't think it's any harder or easier than any other job, actually. I know things and have skills that make me able to do my job; a lot of people could probably do it without training with no problem, a lot of others probably couldn't. I KNOW I could not do Tim Duncan's job.

The part I found ridiculous is that some people here do not believe Tim Duncan has the right to be tired because he took the summer off. That's freakin' hilarious to me. Sorry if it's not to you.

[Extra Stout]

I don't care what anybody says - if you play basketball (NBA) for a living, you've got it on easy street.
Any high-paying job is going to make life more comfortable.

[pache100]

Rofl dude

The question was Tim isn't atheltic, not AS althetic compared to other players.

geez. All I saw was "tim isn't"

In which he IS. Maybe not as much as others. But he is..

I know. That's why I said there was another thread where it was argued that he is not athletic. I just couldn't find it with search. And, I'd have to care a lot more about it than I do to put any more effort into it right now.

[spurjur]

You can say how hard it is. Have you played basketball before? It's just like playing basketball with other people on your level except they are on the highest level. You don't have to have played in the NBA to judge how hard it is. Maybe in some wierd way where the fame turns really negative like in the case of Manu, but that's pretty attenuated.

I don't know if anybody knows it, but Tim Duncan is a natural. The game comes much easier for him than it does for everybody else. I think he played a lot of street ball in the VI, Dave Odom incorporated some footwork knowledge and stuff like that, and Tim Duncan took it from there. He's not some self made guy who made himself into a NBA player. I'm not saying he didn't endure all the Wake practices, I'm just saying he's not the John Crotty or Avery Johnson that is being described.

Yikes!!! You are about to get your head cut off. Don't you know that you can be stoned to death for making a comment like that in this forum.

This is a forum where people who somewhat question the Spurs players, coaches, or owner get dissed and head chewed off. In case you didn't know. You either praise the Spurs players or you're not welcomed.

[pache100]

Yikes!!! You are about to get your head cut off. Don't you know that you can be stoned to death for making a comment like that in this forum.

This is a forum where people who somewhat question the Spurs players, coaches, or owner get dissed and head chewed off. In case you didn't know. You either praise the Spurs players or you're not welcomed.

You don't have a clue. Someone ought to give you one for Christmas.

[Brutalis]

I know. That's why I said there was another thread where it was argued that he is not athletic. I just couldn't find it with search. And, I'd have to care a lot more about it than I do to put any more effort into it right now.
oh. :huh

[kris]

Duncan is athletic. Athleticism doesn't just encompass jumping high. (Although Duncan does have reasonable leaping ability.) Duncan is agile, quick, coordinated, and can run. He can do these things because he is athletic. It's kind of like the fast twitch vs. slow twitch thing. Kevin Garnett has more of that leaping explosiveness whereas Tim Duncan has more agility and coordination.

[spurjur]

I don't think it's any harder or easier than any other job, actually. I know things and have skills that make me able to do my job; a lot of people could probably do it without training with no problem, a lot of others probably couldn't. I KNOW I could not do Tim Duncan's job.

Because you're not 7ft tall and about 250 or so. And because you didn't start playing basketball for fun and while doing it got good at it.

The question was how can you assume that NBA life is a hard one when you have never done it. I'm not trying to start a whole different argument with you or anyone else here.

[pache100]

Because you're not 7ft tall and about 250 or so. And because you didn't start playing basketball for fun and while doing it got good at it.

The question was how can you assume that NBA life is a hard one when you have never done it. I'm not trying to start a whole different argument with you or anyone else here.

That's good, cause I'm done beating my head against the wall. The wall's all bloody and I have one hell of a headache.

[Brutalis]

Duncan is athletic. Athleticism doesn't just encompass jumping high. (Although Duncan does have reasonable leaping ability.) Duncan is agile, quick, coordinated, and can run. He can do these things because he is athletic. It's kind of like the fast twitch vs. slow twitch thing. Kevin Garnett has more of that leaping explosiveness whereas Tim Duncan has more agility and coordination.

Nice post. That's a great way to put it.

[spurjur]

You don't have a clue. Someone ought to give you one for Christmas.

I'm just going off what I've read in this thread and some other threads.

[kris]

Yikes!!! You are about to get your head cut off. Don't you know that you can be stoned to death for making a comment like that in this forum.

This is a forum where people who somewhat question the Spurs players, coaches, or owner get dissed and head chewed off. In case you didn't know. You either praise the Spurs players or you're not welcomed.

HAHA - If I'm owned or whatever when I turn off the computer that's ok. I'm just sitting here relaxing in the bed after waking up at 1:23. It's my Christmas holidays and I thought I would put some opinions on ST.

[spurjur]

That's good, cause I'm done beating my head against the wall. The wall's all bloody and I have one hell of a headache.

So you don't know if its a hard life?

[spurjur]

HAHA - If I'm owned or whatever when I turn off the computer that's ok. I'm just sitting here relaxing in the bed after waking up at 1:23. It's my Christmas holidays and I thought I would put some opinions on ST.

Well, a lot of people do that here, but somehow people here twist it and think you are the scum of the Earth if you don't agree with them.

[Extra Stout]

Yikes!!! You are about to get your head cut off. Don't you know that you can be stoned to death for making a comment like that in this forum.

This is a forum where people who somewhat question the Spurs players, coaches, or owner get dissed and head chewed off. In case you didn't know. You either praise the Spurs players or you're not welcomed.
Sure, because questioning a multi-champion player's toughness, heart, and work ethic because he plays a few subpar games when it doesn't really matter all that much is reasonable, especially because middle-class people in industry get sore muscles from working hard.

I imagine you'd lynch somebody with a six-figure office job.

[Extra Stout]

HAHA - If I'm owned or whatever when I turn off the computer that's ok. I'm just sitting here relaxing in the bed after waking up at 1:23. It's my Christmas holidays and I thought I would put some opinions on ST.
You're pretty knowledgable. I had to go back and hastily edit a sarcastic post to avoid getting punked by you.

[Extra Stout]

HAHA - If I'm owned or whatever when I turn off the computer that's ok. I'm just sitting here relaxing in the bed after waking up at 1:23. It's my Christmas holidays and I thought I would put some opinions on ST.So, what do you think. And I'm not saying out of rhetorical sarcasm, but rather asking somebody who seems to have a pretty good perspective:

Granted that Tim Duncan lives a privileged lifestyle by virtue of being an NBA superstar,

granted that he is a natural for whom the fundamentals of basketball come easier than they do for some others,

it is reasonable for fans to tear him a new one when he goes into his nearly-annual early-season funk?

[Brutalis]

What singer hasn't been insulted cause of his songs?

I'm saying what superstar doesn't have his struggles or downsides.

[spurjur]

Sure, because questioning a multi-champion player's toughness, heart, and work ethic because he plays a few subpar games when it doesn't really matter all that much is reasonable, especially because middle-class people in industry get sore muscles from working hard.

I imagine you'd lynch somebody with a six-figure office job.

Get off my nuts dude. You think you can talk to anyone here the way you want because you're sitting behind some computer? If you were in this person's face or that's person's face you wouldn't be so brave.

Why don't you go and try to hit on some teenage chick that's logged into some chat room you old bastard.

[pache100]

You think you can talk to anyone here the way you want because you're sitting behind some computer?

Apparently that's what YOU think.

[spurjur]

Apparently that's what YOU think.

Who the heck are you? Are you two working together? Get off my nuts too old hag.

[Brutalis]

Well, that looks like a cat that's been cornered one too many times. Aahahaha.

[Extra Stout]

Get off my nuts dude. You think you can talk to anyone here the way you want because you're sitting behind some computer? If you were in this person's face or that's person's face you wouldn't be so brave.

Why don't you go and try to hit on some teenage chick that's logged into some chat room you old bastard.
More typical San Antonio. Your argument loses on the merits, therefore you lose your temper and long for a throwdown.

I imagine you'd be trying to pull a knife on me now.

"So, why did you try to stab the guy? Well, officer, we were arguing about Tim Duncan."

[pache100]

Who the heck are you? Are you two working together? Get off my nuts too old hag.

:lol

Like I said before...when all else fails, the insults fly! Those remarks make you look about 12.

[Extra Stout]

:lol

Like I said before...when all else fails, the insults fly! Those remarks make you look about 12.

E, you wanna bounce, esse?

[spurjur]

More typical San Antonio. Your argument loses on the merits, therefore you lose your temper and long for a throwdown.

I imagine you'd be trying to pull a knife on me now.

"So, why did you try to stab the guy? Well, officer, we were arguing about Tim Duncan."

Typical Redneck, Trailer Trash reply. Always assume that people in San Antonio turn to violence to resolve matters.

[spurjur]

:lol

Like I said before...when all else fails, the insults fly! Those remarks make you look about 12.'

Waste of my time.

[spurjur]

E, you wanna bounce, esse?

Don't you have some Klan meeting to get to? Go on boy.

[pache100]

E, you wanna bounce, esse?

Okie dokie! :princess

Your trailer or mine, redneck? :lol

[Extra Stout]

Don't you have some Klan meeting to get to? Go on boy.
I can't go. I just washed the sheets and haven't had a chance to iron them yet.

It's not a racial thing. Believe me, it's not a racial thing. It's a San Antonio thing. The gringos there have the same inferiority complex. Funny how it even manifests itself in being jealous of Tim Duncan.

[Extra Stout]

Since Tim Duncan is so lazy and gets tired easily, San Antonians should give up on the affected, prima donna Spurs and start rooting for the hard-working Pistons.

Detroit Pistons: Goin' to work. Every night. It's even on their website.

Screw Tim Duncan and his get-tired-like-Donovan-McNabb-except-it's-not-in-the-Super-Bowl-but-that-doesn't-matter ass. Ben Wallace doesn't get tired.

That's not pointed at you, kris, just in case you think it was.

[Extra Stout]

Typical Redneck, Trailer Trash reply. Always assume that people in San Antonio turn to violence to resolve matters.I'm from San Antonio, and I always carry a big knife around with me just in case I lose a basketball argument.

[kris]

So, what do you think. And I'm not saying out of rhetorical sarcasm, but rather asking somebody who seems to have a pretty good perspective:

Granted that Tim Duncan lives a privileged lifestyle by virtue of being an NBA superstar,

granted that he is a natural for whom the fundamentals of basketball come easier than they do for some others,

it is reasonable for fans to tear him a new one when he goes into his nearly-annual early-season funk?

Yes and No and depends on what you mean by tear into him. It's kind of a gray area because it's really subjective. Some people get really upset when Duncan has a bad day because they like him so much it makes them a little down. So when they come in here and just say "he f...ing sucks" then they are obviously emotional and upset with him. I don't agree with that stance but it is an internet message board, so I guess you get what you pay for.

Then, there's the reciprocal of fans that are tried and true. Their guy, Duncan in this case, could be averaging 12 points a game and 5 rebounds over the last 10 games and they would still stick by him. Are they blinded by their loyalty and faith? Maybe. Are they making excuses for him by saying he's injured? Maybe. Maybe not. Everybody knows that a nagging injury will bring your game down.

After that is the fans that really are just trying to say he is not playing well right now. Just matter of fact speaking. They aren't trying to say anything too extreme, like the highest polarity of the other two groups (ie trade him or he's playing great you just don't know it), they are just really trying to objectively say what they think. Whether their opinion is right or not, who knows?

And then you have blends of these types of people and other people as well. But, those are the three main groups I see when I read this kind of stuff. I think the middle ground is the most reasonable. However, I don't always agree with the objective people.

On Duncan himself, I don't think he has played great for a sustained period of time for a long time. I used to love watching him play because he was exciting and almost flat unstoppable. Then, he got too far into that drawing fouls thing and now he's out of that but perhaps playing too unselfishly and with not enough authority.

If he ever gets back to his old self, I think it will be evident to everyone.

[Extra Stout]

What singer hasn't been insulted cause of his songs?

I'm saying what superstar doesn't have his struggles or downsides.
I agree.

[Extra Stout]

On Duncan himself, I don't think he has played great for a sustained period of time for a long time. I used to love watching him play because he was exciting and almost flat unstoppable. Then, he got too far into that drawing fouls thing and now he's out of that but perhaps playing too unselfishly and with not enough authority.
I agree with a lot of this. He shows flashes now, but doesn't take over games the way he used to. I think it's a combination of:
-- Being unselfish and letting guys like Tony build confidence in the clutch so they can be counted on in the playoffs
-- Just having trouble finding a rhythm with fewer minutes and deferring more to teammates
-- Not being 25 anymore, and having to pick his spots sometimes
-- The post-title malaise when the part of the season you really care about seems so far off in the future and there's a grind left to get there


If he ever gets back to his old self, I think it will be evident to everyone.
I think he'll find a rhythm, and unless it coincides with big injuries to other guys, I think it will spur a long winning streak and a surge where Dallas gets small in the rearview mirror.

[polandprzem]

Karl malone was always young

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I agree with a lot of this. He shows flashes now, but doesn't take over games the way he used to. I think it's a combination of:
-- Being unselfish and letting guys like Tony build confidence in the clutch so they can be counted on in the playoffs
-- Just having trouble finding a rhythm with fewer minutes and deferring more to teammates
-- Not being 25 anymore, and having to pick his spots sometimes
-- The post-title malaise when the part of the season you really care about seems so far off in the future and there's a grind left to get there


I think he'll find a rhythm, and unless it coincides with big injuries to other guys, I think it will spur a long winning streak and a surge where Dallas gets small in the rearview mirror.

i agree 100% there is a much bigger difference between the TD of today and the TD of 2003 and prior than people realize

[easjer]

Sorry, kris, I never played basketball. So I truly don't know. I did run a little track (slowly) and ducked when playing catch with my father (much to his sportsman's chagrin).

But I can't hate on someone who uses the word attenuated in a post. I'm still in awe of that.

[Extra Stout]

Sorry, kris, I never played basketball. So I truly don't know. I did run a little track (slowly) and ducked when playing catch with my father (much to his sportsman's chagrin).

But I can't hate on someone who uses the word attenuated in a post. I'm still in awe of that.
kris seems like one of those guys for whom when he posts, school is in session, and you just take notes. A sage, is he. Rare, they are.

[easjer]

:lol

Well, I reserve judgement on that, but do admire anyone who can take heated arguments so calmly.

And again. Attenuated. A fine word, that.

[Extra Stout]

:lol

Well, I reserve judgement on that, but do admire anyone who can take heated arguments so calmly.

And again. Attenuated. A fine word, that.
It is a bona fide 75-cent word. He's seventh in the league in assists with that word.

[SequSpur]

I don't enjoy watching the Spurs play back to backs. It's like they don't even show up.

Rack up their usual losses and at the end of the day, they will be in the West Finals.

What would've happened if Game 7 was in Detroit?

That may happen this year. I think it is a product of Pop's plan to rest people which opens the door to piss poor play on back to backs. Is it truly a night off? or is a game against a shitty East team just as important as a roadie against the Suns or Mavs?

Also, Duncan's personal hygiene is lacking as well.