Wife of Joel Osteen Asked to Leave Plane [Archive] - Page 2

Extra Stout

12-21-2005, 04:58 PM

Well, Osteen worked in his pop's television ministry bidness and then took over when pop passed on.
Lakewood certainly was different under John Osteen. It was more wrapped up in the Prosperity Gospel/Word of Faith heresy back then, but the people were more genuine, more involved, more willing to serve. Strangely, for people who were convinced God was going to make them materially rich one day, they didn't seem to care all that much about material things. It was more, "Well, God's got that taken care of, don't have to worry about, I'm worry about other things." Maybe it was just the ones I knew. Maybe despite the bad teaching the Spirit of God was still there back then.

Now Joel has just dumbed it down to a Dr. Phil motivational speech each week, made it slicker, with better packaging, more entertainment, the "prestige" of being a Lakewood member, etc. They pack in tens of thousands, but it's like going to a concert or a basketball game now. There are no demands or challenges placed on anybody if they don't want them. With a church that size, the economies of scale kick in and they really don't need that many people to serve -- just put butts in the seats. It's just a business now.

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 04:58 PM

The easiest way to grow a church and rake in a lot of money is to tell people what they want to hear and to make it entertaining.

No doubt. Who wants to hear that faith won't make someone rich, healthy, beautiful or charming? Who wants to hear that faith is not easy and that they will be ridiculed for it? Who wants to be a martyr for their faith? Who wants to believe that they may endure a debilitating disease or an excrutiating death despite their faith?

mookie2001

12-21-2005, 04:58 PM

Why?? Simply cause they are in the public eye.... If you had your way we'd be reading your "conservative haiku's" in our local papers.... how is that any differentit is not the job of pastors or preachers to be so paid out

and I would bet my life olsteen aint hurtin
hes a pimp

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 05:01 PM

Now Joel has just dumbed it down to a Dr. Phil motivational speech each week, made it slicker, with better packaging, more entertainment, the "prestige" of being a Lakewood member, etc. They pack in tens of thousands, but it's like going to a concert or a basketball game now. There are no demands or challenges placed on anybody if they don't want them. With a church that size, the economies of scale kick in and they really don't need that many people to serve -- just put butts in the seats. It's just a business now.

That's the thing. Where's the connection between the pastor and his flock? The larger the church, the less the personal connection becomes. This is more of a personal preference, but I think there is a limit to how big a congregation a minister can serve effectively.

SpursWoman

12-21-2005, 05:02 PM

Nice joke. A better joke is you trying to say you have never acted wrong towards anyone or anything in your life. That's some funny stuff. :lmao

Then please tell me who so I can apologize. Or are just speculating without knowing anything about me?

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 05:03 PM

I mean, think about it. This guy has a congregation in the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands and on the Tuesday before Xmas he's rolling on up to Vail for some skiing. I don't know about you, but the ministers I've known have been snowed under this time of year.

mookie2001

12-21-2005, 05:04 PM

sw quit with the judgement
youre not god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 05:04 PM

ive read through this thread

I

somewhat

agree with

marcus

...

I'm still not touching your, um, "chode" though.

Phenomanul

12-21-2005, 05:04 PM

My weakness for impulse purchases doesn't make her any less of a spoiled, selfish primadonna. If someone would like to start a thread on the sin of impulse buying, I'll be happy to repent. :lol

I plead guilty to this sin.... :king

Extra Stout

12-21-2005, 05:09 PM

I'm still not touching your, um, "chode" though.
If one guy touches another guys chode, they're both gay. One for willfully touching a chode, another for willfully letting a guy touch his chode.

If I were sitting next to mookie on a plane and he started talking about his chode, I seriously would pull a Mrs. Joel Osteen.

spurjur

12-21-2005, 05:09 PM

Then please tell me who so I can apologize. Or are just speculating without knowing anything about me?

Not at all. Just going off of what the bible says in the book of Romans.

SpursWoman

12-21-2005, 05:10 PM

If I were sitting next to mookie on a plane and he started talking about his chode, I seriously would pull a Mrs. Joel Osteen..

Maybe it was someone's chode that was actually on her fold-down tray that caused her to freak out so?

Phenomanul

12-21-2005, 05:10 PM

Lakewood certainly was different under John Osteen. It was more wrapped up in the Prosperity Gospel/Word of Faith heresy back then, but the people were more genuine, more involved, more willing to serve. Strangely, for people who were convinced God was going to make them materially rich one day, they didn't seem to care all that much about material things. It was more, "Well, God's got that taken care of, don't have to worry about, I'm worry about other things." Maybe it was just the ones I knew. Maybe despite the bad teaching the Spirit of God was still there back then.

Now Joel has just dumbed it down to a Dr. Phil motivational speech each week, made it slicker, with better packaging, more entertainment, the "prestige" of being a Lakewood member, etc. They pack in tens of thousands, but it's like going to a concert or a basketball game now. There are no demands or challenges placed on anybody if they don't want them. With a church that size, the economies of scale kick in and they really don't need that many people to serve -- just put butts in the seats. It's just a business now.

I can certainly understand this point of view....

It's unfortunate, and like someone mentioned earlier, "most that tend to go through the motions" look for the high profile church to do it in.... sad fact.

Smaller churches in general tend to be more genuine in this regard... people are accountable for trying to do charitable and "Christ-like" works... In the bigger churches people (not everyone) just lazily give their money and expect others to do the 'dirty' work....

Anyways, God will hold us accountable for our actions in the end...

mookie2001

12-21-2005, 05:12 PM

I cant go more than a few hours until I have to say the word chode
honestly

and I won't let me and marcus' past differences of opinions (on every subject know to man) stand in the way of reaching my dreams

Extra Stout

12-21-2005, 05:12 PM

.

Maybe it was someone's chode that was actually on her fold-down tray that caused her to freak out so?
I'm pretty sure the tray would break if there were a chode on it. And that would be a pretty uncomfortable position.

SpursWoman

12-21-2005, 05:13 PM

Not at all. Just going off of what the bible says in the book of Romans.

You found it a joke when I said that I've never treated anyone like that yet have no proof to the contrary...so yes, you did.

She, on the otherhand, left it out there for everyone to see. :fro

mookie2001

12-21-2005, 05:13 PM

not to sound stuckup

but yall really dont know shit about chodes
its pitiful

the majority of people who post that word on ST have little to elementary chode knowledge

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 05:14 PM

If one guy touches another guys chode, they're both gay. One for willfully touching a chode, another for willfully letting a guy touch his chode.

If I were sitting next to mookie on a plane and he started talking about his chode, I seriously would pull a Mrs. Joel Osteen.

You can touch your chode and you can touch your friends but you can't touch your friend's chode?

SpursWoman

12-21-2005, 05:15 PM

the majority of people who post that word on ST have little to elementary chode knowledge

Is it anything like Quan? :lol

Extra Stout

12-21-2005, 05:16 PM

I cant go more than a few hours until I have to say the word chode
honestly
Then if I'm ever on a plane sitting next to you, I expect fair warning. If somebody pull a Mrs. Joel Osteen on a plane who is not a Republican Pioneer, W wiretaps their phone.

Mrs. Osteen is a Pioneer, so she's OK.

I don't know you you'll recognize me though because I'm white and all us white people look alike.

spurjur

12-21-2005, 05:16 PM

You found it a joke when I said that I've never treated anyone like that yet have no proof to the contrary...so yes, you did.

She, on the otherhand, left it out there for everyone to see. :fro

Believe what you want. Whatever makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside is cool with me.

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 05:19 PM

Believe what you want. Whatever makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside is cool with me.

'God wants you to be rich' makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

Extra Stout

12-21-2005, 05:19 PM

You can touch your chode and you can touch your friends but you can't touch your friend's chode?
You really shouldn't be touching your own chode that much either.

spurjur

12-21-2005, 05:20 PM

'God wants you to be rich' makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

That's nice to know Marcus.

SpursWoman

12-21-2005, 05:23 PM

Believe what you want. Whatever makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside is cool with me.

Knowing that God will love me whether I'm rich or poor makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. So do newborn babies, little kittens and hot cocoa. Primadonnas who delay my flights because someone's chode was on their tray and can't figure out how a napkin works, causing me to miss my connecting flights, make me want to choke a bitch. :)

1369

12-21-2005, 05:23 PM

So, this thread went from:

1. Rich gal allegedly has a hissy fit on a flight causing her removal
2. Questions as to why she wasn't charged
3. SW admitting she's a "diva" who can't control impulse shopping
4. Debate about Osteen's husband being a "false prophet"
5. Class warfare debate
6. Mookie wanting someone to play with his chode

This thread has a really wierd stream of consciousness thing going on.

Carry on.

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 05:24 PM

Basically, I feel that 'ministries' like Osteen's and Hagee's do a disservice to the faith. Both preach a sensationalized version of Christianity and both have gotten wealthy off their ministries through broadcasts and associated products. At least Hagee does advance the notion that Christianity is not all peaches and cream.

Still, both give critics of the faith ample ammunition to castigate Christianity and they also create the potential for plenty to give up on the faith altogether after their experience with Osteen or Hagee's ministry.

Marcus Bryant

12-21-2005, 05:24 PM

You really shouldn't be touching your own chode that much either.

I guess, but sometimes it itches.

Phenomanul

12-21-2005, 05:25 PM

How does mookie convert threads into chode topics??? Amazing.... :lol

gay abc

12-21-2005, 05:26 PM

who knew?

chode (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chode)

:lol

mookie2001

12-21-2005, 05:26 PM

dammit
now I have to start using some word totally out of context for yall to hijack

Extra Stout

12-21-2005, 05:30 PM

The female analog for the chode is much more useful because you can just pick them up by it and carry them around like a six-pack.

Phenomanul

12-21-2005, 05:39 PM

The female analog for the chode is much more useful because you can just pick them up by it and carry them around like a six-pack.

The graphic for this was unnecessary....

ObiwanGinobili

12-21-2005, 05:57 PM

Knowing that God will love me whether I'm rich or poor makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. So do newborn babies, little kittens and hot cocoa. Primadonnas who delay my flights because someone's chode was on their tray and can't figure out how a napkin works, causing me to miss my connecting flights, make me want to choke a bitch. :)
:tu

I always thought i was quite dedicated in my religion... spiritually set up for life.

buit now i am seriosly considering throwing it all out the window and worshiping you. :fro :princess

ShoogarBear

12-21-2005, 06:03 PM

Where Would Jesus Ski?

:lmao

ShoogarBear

12-21-2005, 06:07 PM

who knew?

chode (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chode)

I am so glad that wasn't a video link.

smeagol

12-21-2005, 06:33 PM

mookie2001

12-21-2005, 06:39 PM

LOL
this all comes down to who has the most vbookie
since smeagol and mr dio have no opinion

I WIN
nevermind

Mr. Defense

12-21-2005, 06:44 PM

just please notice exactly WHO is focused squarely on the MONEY in this thread. :tu

mookie2001

12-21-2005, 07:07 PM

dont judge me
Im just jealous of white people and their money
because their tahoes and hissyfits on airplanes are keeping me from my dreams

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 09:30 AM

I have never agreed more with MB than on this thread :tu

ES and SW make very good points too :tu

I don't understand how people who call themselves Christians don't take offense with people who: (i) became Pastors simply to make money, and (ii) preech a false Gospel, specially one that puts so much emphasis on money.

Cause it's Marcus's logic that refuses to see that GOD can and will bless his children....

I pointed him to JOB and he ignored me...
I pointed him to King Solomon and he ignored me...

He just has chosen to ignore the rest of Osteen's messages.... wait he hasn't really sat through one... hmm I can sniff credibility issues here.... Marcus has vehemently stuck to his point "Osteen is a false prophet blah blah blah...." without giving one bit of evidence... and that is considered a good point??? it's an argument without basis in my book... his only argument is biased because it is based on only one of Osteen's central themes.

NOW having said that, I will reinstate what I said in an earlier post; that it is rather unfortunate that these large congregations exist in the first place... IT is much harder to work and contribute when there are so many members.... Some of them, like I mentioned in said post, attend those churches simply out of laziness.... it is much easier for them to recieve recieve recieve without giving or doing much... they hide among the masses. They are not accountable or responsible for anything... as a result those members remain spiritually stagnant.

My church, on the other hand, has about 130 members and everyone is responsible for a ministry (even some of the children)... again, churches are supposed to teach you spiritual accountability as well as responsibility... this is much more difficult when you are surrounded by 30,000 people and when your communication with the spiritual counselor (i.e. the pastor) is a rarity.

I don't condone the fact that some pastors earn millionaire salaries... but I'm not going to judge their church's prosperity either.... As far as I know they donate many millions of dollars to charitable organizations. And as a whole they are doing their part.

I don't condone of Osteen's wife's hissy fit either... but based on some of the interviews of passengers who witnessed the scandal (a later report) they claim the stewardess is the one who blew it out of proportion... the first report only stated what happenned and left much to the imagination...

Anyway smeagol this isn't a proplem confined to 'evangelicals'... I don't particularly agree with the superfluous excesses doned by vatican officials or the pope.... I mean c'mon... the Pope sits on a golden throne.... and wears vestiments threaded from silver fibers.

I know you've been trying to learn about evangelical Christianity... just don't toss us all on the same boat.

Extra Stout

12-22-2005, 09:32 AM

dont judge me
Im just jealous of white people and their money
because their tahoes and hissyfits on airplanes are keeping me from my dreams
Victoria is not exactly the beacon of opportunity.

May I suggest Cuero.

ObiwanGinobili

12-22-2005, 09:36 AM

weirdly enough.
Victoria has the most millionaires per capita of any other Texas city.
freaky.

ofcourse all you need is 1mil to count as a millionaire.. and not all cash either, it could be property.

Extra Stout

12-22-2005, 10:04 AM

weirdly enough.
Victoria has the most millionaires per capita of any other Texas city.
freaky.
Watching all the old-oil-money millionaires tooling around in their Tahoes has made mookie the man he is today.

The sone

12-22-2005, 10:13 AM

uhhh...merry christmas, y'all...?

ObiwanGinobili

12-22-2005, 10:15 AM

Watching all the old-oil-money millionaires tooling around in their Tahoes has made mookie the man he is today.

:lmao

and there are alot of tahoes down there!

and expeditions, suburbans, excursions, etc etc.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 10:20 AM

Watching all the old-oil-money millionaires tooling around in their Tahoes has made mookie the man he is today.

Mookie surrounded by White Conservative Millionaires..... wow, I'm beginning to understand his perspective....

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 10:29 AM

Cause it's Marcus's logic that refuses to see that GOD can and will bless his children....

I pointed him to JOB and he ignored me...
I pointed him to King Solomon and he ignored me...

I've ignored nothing. You do not become a believer in order to become wealthy. Sure, that's up to God, but there is nothing in Scripture about how someone should believe so they can gain material riches here on Earth. If you want to flame me for that, sobeit. Maybe you need to stop believing that nonsense as well.

He just has chosen to ignore the rest of Osteen's messages.... wait he hasn't really sat through one... hmm I can sniff credibility issues here.... Marcus has vehemently stuck to his point "Osteen is a false prophet blah blah blah...." without giving one bit of evidence... and that is considered a good point??? it's an argument without basis in my book... his only argument is biased because it is based on only one of Osteen's central themes.

Ah yes, if you just ignore the little fact that the pastor has made himself wealthy off pushing an absurd notion of what the Christian faith is, then he's alright.

NOW having said that, I will reinstate what I said in an earlier post; that it is rather unfortunate that these large congregations exist in the first place... IT is much harder to work and contribute when there are so many members.... Some of them, like I mentioned in said post, attend those churches simply out of laziness.... it is much easier for them to recieve recieve recieve without giving or doing much... they hide among the masses. They are not accountable or responsible for anything... as a result those members remain spiritually stagnant.

Sure, what kind of ministry is Osteen engaging in exactly? Less than a week before Christmas and as the leader of a 30K+ congregation he's hitting the slopes in Vail.

My church, on the other hand, has about 130 members and everyone is responsible for a ministry (even some of the children)... again, churches are supposed to teach you spiritual accountability as well as responsibility... this is much more difficult when you are surrounded by 30,000 people and when your communication with the spiritual counselor (i.e. the pastor) is a rarity.

I don't condone the fact that some pastors earn millionaire salaries... but I'm not going to judge their church's prosperity either.... As far as I know they donate many millions of dollars to charitable organizations. And as a whole they are doing their part.

Since when is becoming wealthy off running a ministry acceptable? Seriously.

I don't condone of Osteen's wife's hissy fit either... but based on some of the interviews of passengers who witnessed the scandal (a later report) they claim the stewardess is the one who blew it out of proportion... the first report only stated what happenned and left much to the imagination...

Anyway smeagol this isn't a proplem confined to 'evangelicals'... I don't particularly agree with the superfluous excesses doned by vatican officials or the pope.... I mean c'mon... the Pope sits on a golden throne.... and wears vestiments threaded from silver fibers.

I know you've been trying to learn about evangelical Christianity... just don't toss us all on the same boat.

'Others do it' is not a defense. It's not hard to see that Osteen is what he is, a snake oil salesman exploiting a false teaching in order to enrich himself.

Extra Stout

12-22-2005, 10:51 AM

:tu

I always thought i was quite dedicated in my religion... spiritually set up for life.

buit now i am seriosly considering throwing it all out the window and worshiping you. :fro :princess
The Church of SW is meeting over in the baseball forum.

Das Texan

12-22-2005, 10:57 AM

j-6

12-22-2005, 11:05 AM

The Church of SW is meeting over in the baseball forum.

The plaque for the alternates is down in the ladies room?

Sportcamper

12-22-2005, 12:34 PM

http://www.acewigs.com/shop/image_uploads/RU_56091_M.jpg

I think you all are missing the point....When I fly 1st class, it is the stewardess’s job to attend to my every need...The mess/spill should not have even of been there in the 1st place...Since it was there, I would have expected the stewardess to clean it up immediately, get me a gin & tonic.... And perhaps offer me a soothing back rub for my troubles...

It is apparent to me that Mr.’s Osteen got on the flight from hell...There were probably a bunch of screaming kids on that plane & no curtain to separate 1st class form steerage! :smokin

ObiwanGinobili

12-22-2005, 12:35 PM

:lmao @ "steerage"

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 01:01 PM

I've ignored nothing. You do not become a believer in order to become wealthy. Sure, that's up to God, but there is nothing in Scripture about how someone should believe so they can gain material riches here on Earth. If you want to flame me for that, sobeit. Maybe you need to stop believing that nonsense as well.

You want to keep it simple fine... I believe it simply because I know GOD is the owner of everthing... He can give me what he pleases.... Our purpose here is on earth is to care for others..widows, orphans, so that the Love of GOD be manifested through our works.... I know I will get slammed for this, but it is a biblically supported belief... If all Christians were destitute it would be rather difficult to achieve this purpose in fullness??

Ah yes, if you just ignore the little fact that the pastor has made himself wealthy off pushing an absurd notion of what the Christian faith is, then he's alright.

OK so what we know is that If I publish a book I have to reject all of its earnings right...???

Sure, what kind of ministry is Osteen engaging in exactly? Less than a week before Christmas and as the leader of a 30K+ congregation he's hitting the slopes in Vail. Spare me the criticism... what was he doing the day before the trip or the day before that? I don't know why don't you give him a call?? How about you two compare the percentages of salary you all give to charity every year.

Since when is becoming wealthy off running a ministry acceptable? Seriously. It's not. You are right in that regard. But seriously you would then have to answer if being wealthy was wrong before GOD. I believe he knows who does, and doesn't get distracted by the lure of money...

'Others do it' is not a defense. It's not hard to see that Osteen is what he is, a snake oil salesman exploiting a false teaching in order to enrich himself. Your opinion.

The sone

12-22-2005, 01:23 PM

:lmao @ "steerage"

now thats smart...lol.

what about "spam cab", or "meat trailer"?

smeagol

12-22-2005, 01:38 PM

Anyway smeagol this isn't a proplem confined to 'evangelicals'... I don't particularly agree with the superfluous excesses doned by vatican officials or the pope.... I mean c'mon... the Pope sits on a golden throne.... and wears vestiments threaded from silver fibers.

I know you've been trying to learn about evangelical Christianity... just don't toss us all on the same boat.

I never said this was a problem which is confined to tele-evangelists, but it is much more evident in this group of people.

You can say many things about the Pope but that he is in Religion to make money would be far from the truth. Many tele-evangelists are too fond of money, and to assume they are in this line of "business" for the money is not far fetched.

And I'm surprised that you, who appears to have studied the Bible (probably much more than what I have), do not have a problem with this.

Extra Stout

12-22-2005, 01:56 PM

Our purpose here is on earth is to care for others..widows, orphans, so that the Love of GOD be manifested through our works.... I know I will get slammed for this, but it is a biblically supported belief... If all Christians were destitute it would be rather difficult to achieve this purpose in fullness??
You erect a strawman when you say "destitute."

spurjur

12-22-2005, 02:13 PM

So pretty much those who oppose Osteen feel that he is in it to make money because he has the biggest church in the U.S, probably lives in a huge mansion, goes to Vail, CO before Christmas?????

So those who do the work of God should preach in a broken down church building with no A/C, live in a small apartment with lead in the paint, and never think about treating his/her family to a family vacation before Christmas????

I think not. The Gospel means "Good News." Good News can be a drug addict kicking his habbit, a prostitute changing her life, a person diagnosed with cancer getting healed, but it should not include a person who was broke and now lives debt free in a nice house and drive a nice car? That doesn't seem right to me.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 02:21 PM

You want to keep it simple fine... I believe it simply because I know GOD is the owner of everthing... He can give me what he pleases.... Our purpose here is on earth is to care for others..widows, orphans, so that the Love of GOD be manifested through our works.... I know I will get slammed for this, but it is a biblically supported belief... If all Christians were destitute it would be rather difficult to achieve this purpose in fullness??

Right. As part of our faith we are to submit our own will, perhaps think about helping out the less fortunate. We aren't supposed to be lusting after luxury items as part of our faith.

OK so what we know is that If I publish a book I have to reject all of its earnings right...???

That's not the issue. For starters, he's selling a false Gospel. Secondly, he is making $ off his ministry. It's not the same as just writing a book about whatever.

Spare me the criticism... what was he doing the day before the trip or the day before that? I don't know why don't you give him a call?? How about you two compare the percentages of salary you all give to charity every year.

Attacking someone else is not a defense.

It's not. You are right in that regard. But seriously you would then have to answer if being wealthy was wrong before GOD. I believe he knows who does, and doesn't get distracted by the lure of money...

Osteen is preaching a Gospel that puts material desires center stage in the faith.

Your opinion.

What else is it then? I didn't realize that Christianity consisted of begging God for luxury goods.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 02:25 PM

Where do you get the idea of him begging God for luxury items? You're so far off. Do you know 100% that he is selling a false Gospel? I doubt it.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 02:31 PM

So pretty much those who oppose Osteen feel that he is in it to make money because he has the biggest church in the U.S, probably lives in a huge mansion, goes to Vail, CO before Christmas?????

Read what you just wrote. Since when is being a minister about living a luxiorous life?

Beyond that, he is spreading a false Gospel. Christ was a poor Jewish carpenter who had no desire for wealth. Now we have a minister who vacations in Vail. If it looks like a duck...

So those who do the work of God should preach in a broken down church building with no A/C, live in a small apartment with lead in the paint, and never think about treating his/her family to a family vacation before Christmas????

Again you are missing the point. Those who preach the word should be doing it for something other than to become obscenely wealthy. Where's the service to others? Where's the humility?

I think not. The Gospel means "Good News." Good News can be a drug addict kicking his habbit, a prostitute changing her life, a person diagnosed with cancer getting healed, but it should not include a person who was broke and now lives debt free in a nice house and drive a nice car? That doesn't seem right to me.

A shopping spree at Neiman's, a new Porsche, a new yacht, etc...that is what does not seem right.

The Gospel says not to cast your lot with the material. If you are blessed with a nice home, family, etc...give thanks to God. But that is not why you are a Christian.

Is this really that hard to understand?

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 02:32 PM

Where do you get the idea of him begging God for luxury items? You're so far off. Do you know 100% that he is selling a false Gospel? I doubt it.

Check out the book.

Nbadan

12-22-2005, 02:33 PM

wow this thing has exploded.

look the bottom line is that joel osteen is just like every other big name preacher. I dont pay attention to him because I consider him cultlike in many ways, same thing with a guy like Hagee.

I have always believed that ministers if they are true to the word of God should not be living in mansions, they should not be allowed all the luxuries of this Earth. If their flock are able to do this, then that is fine, they should be living by a more simple means, a more Christ like means, as they are in many ways representing Christ when they get up on the pulpit every Sunday (recycled sermons or not)

Maybe thats just me, but for Osteen to be making fortunes off his flock is in many ways a bit sad.

Olsteen is no Hagee..

Pastor Joel Osteen and Lakewood Church raising money for hurricane victims

Lakewood Church Helping at the Astrodome and Other Shelters

Pastor Joel Osteen and Lakewood Church are working with Mayor Bill White, other churches, and relief organizations to provide help for the thousands of Gulf Coast evacuees who are holed up in Houston.

They are RAISING MONEY for hot meals, recruiting volunteers, and gathering supplies and non-perishable food items for hurricane victims.

Link (http://www.elijahlist.com/katrina_aid.htm)

Nbadan

12-22-2005, 02:34 PM

Osteen says in his book that he and his wife Victoria bought and fixed up houses to sell for a profit back in their salad says, which enabled them to build their present house 10 years ago, not from church money.

In fact, the pastor, who admits his 3 million seller book has made him fabulously wealthy, last year stopped taking his $200,000 church salary.

He could call his big house the church parsonage and legally avoid property taxes, but county records show he paid the $25,329 tax bill on the place with his own money.

WXYZ (http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/ys_investigations/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15949_3929405,00.html)

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 02:42 PM

Christ was borderline communist. His teachings were about how one gets salvation, not how one can get all the material items of their dreams.

I suppose it was only a matter of time for the Truth to become so distorted in America's consumerist society that it became a message of improving your haul from the mall rather than sin and salvation.

Extra Stout

12-22-2005, 02:43 PM

I think not. The Gospel means "Good News." Good News can be a drug addict kicking his habbit, a prostitute changing her life, a person diagnosed with cancer getting healed, but it should not include a person who was broke and now lives debt free in a nice house and drive a nice car? That doesn't seem right to me.
The "Good News" is reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.

With that power, a person can change their life. They can depend on the power to make them strong enough to break addiction, to stop a destructive lifestyle, to be healed from sickness, and to get out of debt by stopping destructive materialism, but in no way does the Bible say that through Jesus Christ we can live in a nice house and drive a nice car. That is utterly antithetical to Christ's teaching, and any believer who places his or her hope in that has a grossly distorted understanding of the Gospel.

And whether that seems right to you or me is irrelevant because God, not us, gets to decide what matters in his Kingdom.

This is what Jesus had to say on the matter:

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 02:48 PM

The "Good News" is reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.

With that power, a person can change their life. They can depend on the power to make them strong enough to break addiction, to stop a destructive lifestyle, to be healed from sickness, and to get out of debt by stopping destructive materialism, but in no way does the Bible say that through Jesus Christ we can live in a nice house and drive a nice car. That is utterly antithetical to Christ's teaching, and any believer who places his or her hope in that has a grossly distorted understanding of the Gospel.

And whether that seems right to you or me is irrelevant because God, not us, gets to decide what matters in his Kingdom.

This is what Jesus had to say on the matter:

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Very good. Now show me where Pastor Olsteen serves money.

1369

12-22-2005, 02:53 PM

Since we are on the topic of religion (that doesn't look like I spelled it right), I saw an interesting program on Discovery (or one of those networks) about looking at the bible from a military view to explain some of the passages. One thing that struck me was that the Israelites weren't slaves, but rather a band of mercenaries who got too large in numbers causing Pharoh to have them booted out of Egypt. They had a couple of other interesting theories pertaining to the "Pillars of smoke and fire" that led Moses through the desert and the battle of Jericho.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 02:54 PM

Just A Question? How Old Are You Marcus?

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 02:58 PM

spurjur

12-22-2005, 02:59 PM

12

YEAH. ITS COOL. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE OUT YOUR REAL AGE THAT'S YOUR THING.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 02:59 PM

Read what you just wrote. Since when is being a minister about living a luxiorous life?

Beyond that, he is spreading a false Gospel. Christ was a poor Jewish carpenter who had no desire for wealth. Now we have a minister who vacations in Vail. If it looks like a duck...

Again you are missing the point. Those who preach the word should be doing it for something other than to become obscenely wealthy. Where's the service to others? Where's the humility?

A shopping spree at Neiman's, a new Porsche, a new yacht, etc...that is what does not seem right.

The Gospel says not to cast your lot with the material. If you are blessed with a nice home, family, etc...give thanks to God. But that is not why you are a Christian.

Is this really that hard to understand?

I can understand where you are coming from, I just think you picked the wrong televangelist to fit your "money hoarding" mold.

Other than that I totally agree that earthly treasures are not and should not be the central focus of our lives.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 03:04 PM

I too understand and agree that money should not be the focal point of ministry or serving God. However, its not bad that a person who happens to have a ministry also have good things in life. On top of that, I seriously doubt that Pastor Osteen is in this thing for $$$$. Marcus is entitled to his own OPINION though.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 03:13 PM

spurjur

12-22-2005, 03:24 PM

Billy Graham isn't living in the projects and I am sure isn't driving a Pinto.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 03:28 PM

Compare the public material of, oh say, Billy Graham with that of Osteen. Graham is forthright about man's sinful nature and need for salvation through accepting Christ. One does not get the sense that God should be viewed as a rich uncle or a giant ATM machine in the sky. As for Graham, if he's profiting off his ministry then I have a problem with that, but at least the message seems to be grounded in the Truth.

I couldn't help laughing at this..... :lol

Anyway, of course....

I wouldn't dare compare Osteen to one of the 20 most influential people of the 20th Century...

Nevertheless you are still proposing that material blessings are not GOD-given or can never be.... and that's not something I can't agree with... It's too absolutist of a view.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 03:41 PM

Let's Take Td Jakes For Example. He Has A Huge Church In The Dallas Area. That Church Is Very Nice. He Has Thousands Of Members. He Preaches Awesome. I Believe He Is In A Class All By Himself When It Comes To Preaching The Word Of God. He Too Has A Daily Broadcast On Television. He Too Lives In A Very Big House. He Too Drives Very Nice Cars. He Too Is Whit...wait He's Black.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 03:43 PM

smeagol

12-22-2005, 03:45 PM

Weren't the "riches" the Catholic Church had in the XV Century one of the reasons why Luther "protested" against the Church and therefore started the Reformation?

500 years later, some Protestant tele-evangelists are doing the same thing.

I guess a human being is a human bieng, in the XV Century or in th 21st (and amassing money and more money is still as tempting).

I'm still amazed that people don't see what's wrong with a super rich minister who is distorting the message of the Gospel.

I have to agree with Marcus one more time. I guess the consumer-minded society of this country helps breed this kind of Pastors. Preach what the public wants to hear (not what's really in the Bible) and you will (a) develop a large following, (b) get rich in the process.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 03:45 PM

Where did I state that this practice is only relegated to whitey?

Anyways, I am proposing that faith is not about the material. The Gospels say to not love the material. I don't see how pastors are somehow exempt from that teaching, especially when they are using their position to accumulate wealth.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 03:47 PM

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 03:48 PM

hema its pretty hard to get owned by marcus but youre making it look easy

whats that scripture about a camel and the eye of the needle, and rich man...

spurjur

12-22-2005, 03:55 PM

Marcus Is The Type Will Never Admit He Is Wrong. In His Mind He Is Always Right. Because You Are A Preacher, You Cannot Live In A Mansion. You Can't Drive The Best Cars. Leave That To The Thugs Of This World.

Yet Marcus Has No Proof Of What He Claims. Here We Are 300+ Posts, But He Has No Proof That These Preachers Are Trying To Get Rich Off Of The Bible. None.

I Guess You Can Call It Getting Owned Or Whatever. Like It Matters To Me.

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 03:57 PM

1 question
do you think olsteen or pat robertson are hurtin?
by definition they should be

no priests or rabbis are driving around in cadillacs

Cant_Be_Faded

12-22-2005, 03:58 PM

i thought this thread was about Haley Joel Osment

spurjur

12-22-2005, 04:02 PM

1 question
do you think olsteen or pat robertson are hurtin?
by definition they should be

no priests or rabbis are driving around in cadillacs

PLEASE SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS A MAN OF GOD OUGHT TO HURT. JESUS PAID THE PRICE FOR US SO THAT WE WOULDN'T BE HURTING. WHETHER PHYSICAL, MENTAL, OR SPIRITUAL.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 04:03 PM

Marcus Is The Type Will Never Admit He Is Wrong.

When I am wrong, I will.

In His Mind He Is Always Right. Because You Are A Preacher, You Cannot Live In A Mansion. You Can't Drive The Best Cars. Leave That To The Thugs Of This World.

Whoa. Since when has being a minister ever been about procuring material wealth? Review what Christ had to say about that. What did he do in the temple?

Yet Marcus Has No Proof Of What He Claims. Here We Are 300+ Posts, But He Has No Proof That These Preachers Are Trying To Get Rich Off Of The Bible. None.

I Guess You Can Call It Getting Owned Or Whatever. Like It Matters To Me.

I've offered plenty of proof. All I've seen offered are argument such as that a preacher can get rich off a ministry that espouses love for the material because some "thugs" have gotten rich.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 04:05 PM

PLEASE SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS A MAN OF GOD OUGHT TO HURT. JESUS PAID THE PRICE FOR US SO THAT WE WOULDN'T BE HURTING. WHETHER PHYSICAL, MENTAL, OR SPIRITUAL.

Christ said not to worship the material. Christ said to forget about the ME in your life. Christ didn't have those nails driven through his body so you can get the Audi you wanted.

Christ died so that you may receive salvation despite your sins. Christ said to forget about the ways of this world.

SequSpur

12-22-2005, 04:06 PM

Merry Christmas.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 04:08 PM

Ok Marcus. I'm sure you hang with these preachers just about everyday to know what they're about. You crack me up. Too bad you feel this way. I'll pray for you though.

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 04:10 PM

you have

been owned

by

marcus,

marcus bryant

spurjur

12-22-2005, 04:14 PM

Wow. I've Been Owned. Woe To Me. Whatever Will I Do?

spurjur

12-22-2005, 04:24 PM

Deuteronomy 28
Blessings for Obedience
1 If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.

4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock—the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.

6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.

7 The LORD will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven.

8 The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you.

9 The LORD will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the LORD your God and walk in his ways. 10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will fear you. 11 The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity—in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground—in the land he swore to your forefathers to give you.

12 The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. 13 The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. 14 Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 04:27 PM

oh so god blesses us WITH Cadillacs

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 04:27 PM

So forget about the NT and become a Jew.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 04:27 PM

hema its pretty hard to get owned by marcus but youre making it look easy

whats that scripture about a camel and the eye of the needle, and rich man...

If you are attempting to address me... at least spell it right...

Your attempt at using the bible to make a point is what strikes me as desperate...

Besides, I have agreed with one of Marcus's main points from the get go... Like I've said though "his other view is too absolutist" and he picked the wrong "televangelist" to label as a money hoarder....

Critical reading skills are still taught at UT no??? I don't know where you could interpret my dialogue with Marcus as being owned??? Anyway go and search for that substitute word for chode you were looking for....

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 04:30 PM

alright meet me in rockport

we'll fight

spurjur

12-22-2005, 04:30 PM

So forget about the NT and become a Jew.

GOOD ONE. THAT'S ALL YOU CAN COME UP WITH? YOU DISAPPOINT ME. OH WELL. NICE TRY. THE BIBLE IS THE BIBLE. BOTH NEW AND OLD.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 04:32 PM

alright meet me in rockport

we'll fight

Seems like what you need is a hug... go look for CBF.

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 04:32 PM

do you really not see anything creepy about olsteens church?

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 04:34 PM

GOOD ONE. THAT'S ALL YOU CAN COME UP WITH? YOU DISAPPOINT ME. OH WELL. NICE TRY. THE BIBLE IS THE BIBLE. BOTH NEW AND OLD.

That's all that needed to be said. It's odd how often Christians want to dismiss what Christ taught when it suits them. Maybe he should've talked about gays and abortion more.

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 04:37 PM

maybe he really does have a higher profile/stronger following around these parts

but that church is right out of the twilight zone
except they couldnt have made an espisode because a venue like that did not exist

spurjur

12-22-2005, 04:40 PM

That's all that needed to be said. It's odd how often Christians want to dismiss what Christ taught when it suits them. Maybe he should've talked about gays and abortion more.

WASN'T JESUS A JEW? YES

DIDN'T THE PROPHETS SPEAK OF JESUS? YES

AS A BOY DIDN'T JESUS SIT WITH THE LEADERS OF THE CHURCH AND ALSO TEACH OF THE OLD TESTAMENT? YES

YOU REALLY CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE BIBLE. WELL, YOU CAN, BUT YOU WON'T SUCCEED.

mookie2001

12-22-2005, 04:40 PM

I use it for suggestions on how to treat my slaves

spurjur

12-22-2005, 04:43 PM

I use it for suggestions on how to treat my slaves

I GUESS THE CIRCUS IS IN TOWN. MOOKIE IS IN ALL THREE RINGS AT THE SAME TIME FOLKS.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 04:44 PM

That's all that needed to be said. It's odd how often Christians want to dismiss what Christ taught when it suits them. Maybe he should've talked about gays and abortion more.

My dad is a Pastor and makes about 1/6th, if not less, of your annual salary...

Should we label you a hoarding materialistic man??

Before you ask... I just called him to make sure he wasn't going on a ski trip.
Instead I found out he was on his way to Mexico to hand out "warm covers" to the poor, and Christmas gifts to orphans at an orphanage our church helps out.... Currently there is about 1500 dollars in the church's bank account (enough for next month's bills).

You must realize that by criticizing the ministry you are lumping people such as my father into a much bigger bowl... You are allowing others to make blanket statements for people they have never met... I just thought you should know that.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 04:48 PM

I have not criticized all ministries.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 04:53 PM

I have not criticized all ministries.

No... but you have given borderline church haters more of a 'reason' to justify their hatred.

People tend to remember negative things for longer periods of time.

Tis a fact of human nature.

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 04:54 PM

No... but you have given borderline church haters more of a 'reason' to justify their hatred.

People tend to remember negative things for longer periods of time.

Right, and what is more negative for the faith than turning it into some kind of Poor Dad, Rich Dad or Tony Robbins self-help guide to becoming rich?

smeagol

12-22-2005, 04:58 PM

Marcus Is The Type Will Never Admit He Is Wrong. In His Mind He Is Always Right. Because You Are A Preacher, You Cannot Live In A Mansion. You Can't Drive The Best Cars. Leave That To The Thugs Of This World.
If you do not see what's wrong with Pastors living in mansions, driving the best cars and taking vacations in places that are prohibitive for 99.9% of the population, my question to you is what type of Christianity have you been tought.

I guess this has something to do with what we were discussing in another thread with Hector and others. What is Joel's definition of salvation? Probably one where you are assured salvation once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. That's why I believe works, good deeds and the way you lead your life has a lot to do with Salvation.

Yet Marcus Has No Proof Of What He Claims. Here We Are 300+ Posts, But He Has No Proof That These Preachers Are Trying To Get Rich Off Of The Bible. None.
*sigh*

Jim and Tammy baker come to mind but I know there are more.

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 05:16 PM

Right, and what is more negative for the faith than turning it into some kind of Poor Dad, Rich Dad or Tony Robbins self-help guide to becoming rich?

That's because you have chosen to see his book with this narrow a view....

But hey!.... it's all good. Just as long as what we do with our life honors and glorifies our Creator....

In fact I have spent way too much time on this forum today... AND since it has yet to have any positive influence on anyone I believe it was time wrongly spent..... :oops

Phenomanul

12-22-2005, 05:22 PM

If you do not see what's wrong with Pastors living in mansions, driving the best cars and taking vacations in places that are prohibitive for 99.9% of the population, my question to you is what type of Christianity have you been tought.

I guess this has something to do with what we were discussing in another thread with Hector and others. What is Joel's definition of salvation? Probably one where you are assured salvation once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. That's why I believe works, good deeds and the way you lead your life has a lot to do with Salvation.

*sigh*

Jim and Tammy baker come to mind but I know there are more.

Smeagol the works are important only to know that one is right before GOD... But just as in the crucified thief example who recognized that Jesus was Lord... he was neither baptized, nor went through any other ritual, much less lived a 'Godly' life... and yet GOD promised to greet him in paradise....

Just as there are many evangelical Christians who don't understand GOD's purpose for their life and 'taint' the group as a whole... I know many many Catholics who are less remorseful of sinning simply becuase they can go to "confession" to wipe the slate clean.... Denominations have less to do with the matter than a personal relationship with GOD does -- that should be all that matters.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 05:25 PM

I guess this has something to do with what we were discussing in another thread with Hector and others. What is Joel's definition of salvation? Probably one where you are assured salvation once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. That's why I believe works, good deeds and the way you lead your life has a lot to do with Salvation.

Romans 3:27 (Whole Chapter)
[ Boasting Excluded ] Where then is boasting? [Rm 2:17;, 23; 4:2; 1Co 1:29-31;] It is excluded. By what kind of law? [Rm 9:31;] [ Or what principle?] By one of works? No, on the contrary, by a law [ Or a principle] of faith.

:owned

Marcus Bryant

12-22-2005, 05:57 PM

Why stick to the NT on this but forget about all the other stuff Christ said?

Anyways, once upon a time, both sides of the Faith v Works argument agreed that procuring good stuff was not a concern of believers.

spurjur

12-22-2005, 05:58 PM

j-6

12-23-2005, 09:57 AM

Pastor's wife says she left airplane of own accord
Continental says she was asked to leave after argument with attendant

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/23/pastor.wife.ap/index.html

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- The wife of the pastor of the nation's largest church said she chose to leave an airplane after a disagreement with a flight attendant, disputing accounts that she was asked to go.

The FBI has said Victoria Osteen, of Houston, Texas, was asked to leave after failing to obey crew instructions. The Continental Airlines flight Monday from Houston to Vail, Colorado, was delayed an hour as a result.

In a statement posted on the Lakewood Church Web site, Osteen says: "Regardless of how some have portrayed the situation, please know that it was truly a minor misunderstanding and did not escalate into what you saw or read in the news. Contrary to those reports, it was my choice to remove myself from the situation. Nonetheless, it was a most unfortunate event and I truly regret that it happened."

A statement from Continental Airlines said the situation was resolved and a spokeswoman would not elaborate. The FBI reviewed a report from the airline and determined that no illegal activity had occurred, FBI spokeswoman Luz Garcia said.

"She failed to comply with the flight attendant's instructions and they were asked to leave the flight," Garcia said Tuesday.

Church spokesman Don Iloff said the Osteen family took another flight to Vail.

Pastor Joel Osteen took over his father's church in 1999 and has since increased its following to more than 30,000 worshippers weekly. The congregation of Lakewood Church meets in a renovated sports arena where the Houston Rockets once played.

Osteen's sermons are also broadcast throughout the country and his book "Your Best Life Now" has become a best seller.