Wife of Joel Osteen Asked to Leave Plane

[Marcus Bryant]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051221/ap_on_re_us/pastor_s_wife_disturbance

Wife of Joel Osteen Asked to Leave Plane

By PAM EASTON, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 22 minutes ago

HOUSTON - The wife of the pastor of the nation's largest church was asked to leave a plane after she failed to comply with a flight attendant's instructions, the FBI said Tuesday.


http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051220/capt.dn10712202003.pastors_wife_disturbance_dn107. jpg
Victoria Osteen stands beside her husband, Houston Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen, during services at the church Jan. 9, 2005, in Houston. Osteen failed to comply with a flight attendant's instructions and was asked to leave a plane headed from Houston to Colorado, the FBI said Tuesday, Dec. 20, 2005. The plane's door had been closed Monday, Dec. 19, 2005 when she, got into a verbal altercation with a flight attendant, FBI spokeswoman Luz Garcia said. (AP Photo/Pat Sullivan, File)


Houston Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen, his wife, Victoria, and their two children boarded a Continental Airlines flight from Houston to Vail, Colo., Monday. The plane's door had been closed when Victoria Osteen and a flight attendant had a disagreement.

"She failed to comply with the flight attendant's instructions, and they were asked to leave the flight," FBI spokeswoman Luz Garcia said without elaborating on the disagreement.

The FBI reviewed a report from Continental after the incident, Garcia said. No charges will be filed, she said.

The flight was delayed more than an hour while the Osteens' luggage was retrieved, Garcia said. The family took another flight to Colorado, where church spokesman Don Iloff said they were skiing Tuesday.

Iloff called the disagreement with the flight attendant "minor" but would not say what happened.

"In semantics, they might have been asked to be removed," he said. "Really, it was more of a mutual thing."

Continental spokeswoman Julie King would not discuss the disagreement but said in a statement that the situation was resolved.

Osteen's sermons are broadcast across the country and his book "Your Best Life Now" has become a best seller. His church has more than 30,000 worshippers weekly and meets in a renovated arena where the Houston Rockets once played.

[Vashner]

He should be rich enough now for his own Jet??

I wonder what she did / said?

[Guru of Nothing]

Sit and shut the fuck up.

Is it that difficult?

[midgetonadonkey]

I need to be a preacher so I can get filthy rich and a hot wife. He's a fucking hustler.

[Marcus Bryant]

Another of the 'God wants you to be rich' crowd.

Thou shall not interfere with a pastor's ski trip to Vail?

[JoeChalupa]

I'm just glad she didn't use any words even resembling "bomb".

[E20]

She be a fine women!

[Guru of Nothing]

If only the same had happened to Kobe, there would be one less bad tattoo in the world.

[Mark in Austin]

Another of the 'God wants you to be rich' crowd.

Thou shall not interfere with a pastor's ski trip to Vail?


yep. It's amazing how many people "find God" once they're told that God wants them to be selfish and intolerant. Honestly, I can't believe televangelists didn't think of this shit years ago.

sigh. Whatever happened to the good 'ol days of Rev. Buckner Fanning sharing 30 second dollops of wisdom during Dukes of Hazzard commercial breaks?

[ShoogarBear]

Jesus was just kidding about that camel through an eye of a needle stuff, anyway . . .

[Oh, Gee!!]

They shoulda shot her a couple of times. She'd get the point.

[Das Texan]

shouldnt the good ole pastor be preparing for Christmas?

[Oh, Gee!!]

They shoulda shot her a couple of times. She'd get the point.


on yeah, I forgot. She's white.

[Marcus Bryant]

shouldnt the good ole pastor be preparing for Christmas?


That's another item that crossed my mind. I guess he's tending to the flock in Vail....

[King]

How does a "good ole pastor" prepare for Christmas? Or is it just an attempt to bash organized religion?

[CharlieMac]

Had this been some prominent figure in the muslim world, I'm guessing cracking jokes wouldn't be funny. The words Bush and civil liberties would have been used in the same sentence 38 times by now.

But more importantly, he's got a sweet assed wife.

[Das Texan]

How does a "good ole pastor" prepare for Christmas? Or is it just an attempt to bash organized religion?


well considering Christmas is one of the two most important days of the year for a Christian, preparing your sermon and all for this day would be nice, among other things that go into that day.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I'd hit it

[j-6]

Is Lakewood the church that bought the Compaq Center?


But more importantly, he's got a sweet assed wife.

Indeed, sir.

[King]

well considering Christmas is one of the two most important days of the year for a Christian, preparing your sermon and all for this day would be nice, among other things that go into that day.

Well, considering they work all year around on sermons - and usually Christmas/Christmas Eve sermons are the same from year to year - being either communion and/or the story of Christmas - I think he's probably ok.

Or, we could just feel comfortable that since the guy is a very successful and world-known pastor - that he's probably done this before and probably has it all under control.

[Guru of Nothing]

How does a "good ole pastor" prepare for Christmas?

[raises hand] Fly the bitch to Vail?

[Guru of Nothing]

the guy is a very successful

Your words, not mine.

[Marcus Bryant]

He apparently has been quite successful at commercializing his ministry. Nevermind all of that trifling stuff Christ said about not putting your trust in worldly items. You too can score big with your own church.

[Nbadan]

He apparently has been quite successful at commercializing his ministry. Nevermind all of that trifling stuff Christ said about not putting your trust in worldly items. You too can score big with your own church.

:lol

Don't forget it's all tax free too. Isn't life just wonderful?

[T Park]

and if he voted democrat youd defend him.

Go away.



Once again,

its obvious,

its a crime to be rich in america.

[Oh, Gee!!]

and if he voted democrat youd defend him. Go away.
Once again, its obvious, its a crime to be rich in america.

how do u know osteen doesn't vote democrat?

um yeah, TFart, rich white people are crowding our prisons.

[T Park]

I dont .

I

oh forget it.

[Nbadan]

and if he voted democrat youd defend him.

Go away.



Once again,

its obvious,

its a crime to be rich in america.

:rolleyes

Yeah, because I would want to protect the rich, self-absorbed Pastor base of the Democratic Party.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I dont .

I

oh forget it.


that's because you're a fucking moron. seriously, TFart, you're not smart.

[Samr]

He just looks like a guy I'd want to fight.

I hope someone slaps the douche off his face.

[ObiwanGinobili]

But more importantly, he's got a sweet assed wife.

actually it sounds like he's got some loud assed bitch wife.
can't keep her freakin trap shut long enough for the plane to get off the ground. more importantly isn't humble enough to just do as the attendant says so that EVERYONE can get to colorado on time. selfish bitch.

[SequSpur]

dude has a best selling book to....

most of you are stupid.

[Marcus Bryant]

and if he voted democrat youd defend him.

Go away.

Yeah, I love Democrats.




Once again,

its obvious,

its a crime to be rich in america.


Man, did this thread ever fly over T Park's head.

[midgetonadonkey]

This dude bothers me. Using Jesus to get paid is wrong. I bet behind closed doors he is snorting cocaine of his wife's tit while she is getting head from an underaged prostitute they just hired.

[gay abc]

the next jim and tammy fay?

:lol

[SpursWoman]

actually it sounds like he's got some loud assed bitch wife.
can't keep her freakin trap shut long enough for the plane to get off the ground. more importantly isn't humble enough to just do as the attendant says so that EVERYONE can get to colorado on time. selfish bitch.

:tu


Yeah, I really can't see a wealthy, over-indulged beautiful woman being a completely selfish bitch...being belligerent and uncooperative and feeling entitled to having her own way.

I wonder what was the matter? The on-flight pillow didn't have the right cotton fill? :rolleyes

[Marcus Bryant]

I find the behavior consistent with the message put forth by Olsteen, that God wants you to be rich and that all you have to do is ask him for all the material goodies you want. Forget about all of that salvation bullshit, you should be on your knees asking for a mansion and a shopping spree at Neiman's. Forget about submitting your will to God's. God needs to open up that giant wallet in the sky.

[1369]

Sounds like someone got a little too big for her britches...

Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3538956.html)


A dispute involving the wife of Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen delayed holiday travel plans for a planeload of passengers, but few details were released Tuesday.

At least some people aboard the Continental Airlines flight were less than pleased after waiting about two hours at Bush Intercontinental Airport while the Osteens left the plane and their luggage was removed, said a woman who witnessed the incident.

"She was just abusive," said Sheila Steele, who said she was sitting behind Victoria Osteen. "She was just like one of those divas."

A church spokesman said the couple and their children left the plane voluntarily after the incident Monday and took another flight to Vail, Colo.

However, FBI Special Agent Luz Garcia said the Osteens were asked to leave the jetliner after an "altercation." She said Victoria Osteen "failed to comply" with instructions from the flight attendant. She added that no one was detained.

The incident occurred in the first class section on Flight 1602. Continental spokeswoman Julie King declined to give details.

The Osteens could not be reached for comment, and the Chronicle was unable to contact other passengers to corroborate Steele's version of events. However, the Vail Daily newspaper reported similar accounts of the incident from other first-class passengers.

Passenger Barbara Griffith told the Colorado paper that Joel Osteen was "very calm, very professional."

Lakewood Church spokesman Donald Iloff said Victoria Osteen contacted a flight attendant after noticing that a liquid had been spilled on her seat. The spill apparently was not cleaned up to her satisfaction, Iloff said. The family left the plane voluntarily and took another flight, Iloff said.

The airline issued a statement saying corporate policy forbids identifying passengers.

"There have been various accounts regarding events that occurred on one of our flights," the statement added. "We can confirm that there are no remaining issues between (Continental Airlines) and those passengers, and therefore, both parties feel no further comment is necessary."

Steele said Victoria Osteen was upset about liquid on her pull-down tray and asked a flight attendant to have it cleaned. When the attendant, who was carrying paperwork to the cockpit, told her she couldn't do it immediately, Osteen replied, "Fine, get me a stewardess who can," Steele said.

She said Victoria Osteen pushed a flight attendant and tried to get into the cockpit. Passengers quoted in the Colorado paper did not address those details.

Soon after, authorities were called to the plane, she said, although it was not clear Tuesday whether they were airline officials.

Garcia said Continental officials contacted the FBI about the incident. The agency decided not to investigate.

"It was quickly resolved between the airline and the Osteens," Garcia said.

Steele said she and other passengers were upset that they had to wait about two hours while the Osteens' baggage was removed from the plane.

Joel Osteen is a nationally known author of self-help books.

He became pastor of Lakewood Church in October 1999, building it into what some observers say is the largest church in the U.S.

Victoria Osteen also preaches and plays a significant role at the church.

The congregation in July moved into the 16,000-seat Compaq Center.

[Marcus Bryant]

Isn't interfering with any member of the 'flight crew' a violation of federal law?

[1369]

You would think, as well if she tried to get into the cockpit.

[Marcus Bryant]

Steele said she and other passengers were upset that they had to wait about two hours while the Osteens' baggage was removed from the plane.

Ah, humility.

[Marcus Bryant]

You would think, as well if she tried to get into the cockpit.

No kidding.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://www.ksbj.org/sharathon%202005/photoalbum/Susan%20Beth%20moore%20and%20victoria%20osteen.jpg

Victoria Osteen? I'd baptize it.

[Das Texan]

Well, considering they work all year around on sermons - and usually Christmas/Christmas Eve sermons are the same from year to year - being either communion and/or the story of Christmas - I think he's probably ok.

Or, we could just feel comfortable that since the guy is a very successful and world-known pastor - that he's probably done this before and probably has it all under control.

gotta love recycled sermons.

and ya, way to preach the word of jesus and then live a 180 compared to jesus. how awesome.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's like the American Dream, the Bible, a bottle of Consort, an American Express card and a Norman Vincent Peale book were mixed together.

[Marcus Bryant]

gotta love recycled sermons.

and ya, way to preach the word of jesus and then live a 180 compared to jesus. how awesome.


The worst is that what he is preaching through his bestselling book is also a 180° turn from the Gospel.

[j-6]

It's like the American Dream, the Bible, a bottle of Consort, an American Express card and a Norman Vincent Peale book were mixed together.

Isn't it easier to inspire people using modern day success and wealth as a motivator rather than talk about some morality points from a couple milennia back?

There's a reason that this guy has the biggest church in North America.

[Marcus Bryant]

Isn't it easier to inspire people using modern day success and wealth as a motivator rather than talk about some morality points from a couple milennia back?

There's a reason that this guy has the biggest church in North America.


Sure, the message that all you have to do is ask Santa Clau...er, God for all you want and he'll deliver is bound to be popular.

[Big Pimp_21]

Has anyone in here ever even seen him, watched him on TV, or read his book? He's not all the things he's being accused of. I have no idea what happened on that plane, and I 'm not saying that his wife wasn't being a diva or a bitch...but the man is a good guy. He does a lot of charity work for underpriveledged nations. People want to talk about how he commercializes his church to make money for himself, but he quit taking a salary at all once his book became a best-seller. God-Forbid (no pun intended) that a preaher take his family to Vail rather than study the word all season.

[Marcus Bryant]

Christ hung on a cross so you could get an Escalade! Amen.

[Marcus Bryant]

Has anyone in here ever even seen him, watched him on TV, or read his book?


Yes.




He's not all the things he's being accused of. I have no idea what happened on that plane, and I 'm not saying that his wife wasn't being a diva or a bitch...but the man is a good guy. He does a lot of charity work for underpriveledged nations.


While he exploits his ministry for financial gain and advances a bogus Gospel.




People want to talk about how he commercializes his church to make money for himself, but he quit taking a salary at all once his book became a best-seller.


Big difference.




God-Forbid (no pun intended) that a preaher take his family to Vail rather than study the word all season.


Yeah, I mean, what else could a minister be doing this time of year?

[Vashner]

I'd hit it...

[Marcus Bryant]

You know, instead of leaving his home in River Oaks or Memorial Park or wherever for Vail this season, how about taking a trip downtown and helping out some folks there?

[Big Pimp_21]

what are you doing this Christmas?

[j-6]

Maybe Victoria was upset that she was running late for her hot lesbo sesssion with Katelyn Faber in a nightclub bathroom.

[Marcus Bryant]

what are you doing this Christmas?


Not going to Vail.

[Big Pimp_21]

Probably not b/c you have more "Christian" things to do

[j-6]

Probably not b/c you have more "Christian" things to do


This is a stupid argument. MB's not the Right Reverend Marcus Bryant of the largest church in the Americas, satellite TV empire and all. Osteen is, and he's going to Vail a week before JC's big birthday blowout, the height of the religious (and fundraising, I'd guess, unless Lakewood has a robotic 30 foot Easter bunny) season. Throw in a shitfit by his preacher's-wife-in-Prada sitting in first class going to Vail (of all fucking places) and the Osteen's deserve all the ridicule associated with televangelists blowing other peoples money.

[Marcus Bryant]

Probably not b/c you have more "Christian" things to do


Yeah, like pray and try to help out those less fortunate.

It's nice how your defense of Olsteen has denigrated into trying to find fault in someone else. The man is not preaching the Gospel Truth and is living a little too well off his "ministry". No amount of charitable giving by his organization or good feelings among those who hear his message is going to change that.

[Big Pimp_21]

He's living well off his book sales.

[j-6]

I have to thank Victoria for breaking up a really slow day at work.


"She was just abusive," said Sheila Steele, who said she was sitting behind Victoria Osteen. "She was just like one of those divas."


"She violently ran towards the cockpit, scaring everyone around her," said passenger Knicky Van Slyke. "Everyone was terrified about what was going on. And a bunch of flight attendants ran up and had to restrain her. She was banging on the door."
"Of the cockpit?" we asked.
"Yes."

[SpursWoman]

"She violently ran towards the cockpit, scaring everyone around her," said passenger Knicky Van Slyke. "Everyone was terrified about what was going on. And a bunch of flight attendants ran up and had to restrain her. She was banging on the door."
"Of the cockpit?" we asked.
"Yes."


Because she couldn't get a napkin and wipe up a little spill. What a treat. :rolleyes

[j-6]

Because she couldn't get a napkin and wipe up a little spill. What a treat. :rolleyes


Maybe she's just used to the cupholders in the lower level seating at her arena / church that can easily hold a 32 oz beverage with no threat of spillage.

I'm a coach guy myself, so I couldn't tell you about the tray conditions in first class. Heaven forbid a stewardess on a commercial airliner during the Christmas travel season miss a little liquid.

[Marcus Bryant]

He's living well off his book sales.


Book sales which are directly tied to his "ministry". This isn't hard to piece together.

You know, I have a cousin who is a minister. What's his salary from said ministry? $0. What's his royalty from book sales about how God wants you to be rich and get all the shit you want? $0. He works odd jobs during the week to support himself. Odd jobs such as a custodian for a local school district and as a cook.

Christ was a poor Jewish carpenter. He didn't live in the Dominion or River Oaks. He didn't take his family to Vail. He didn't say that you should seek riches in this life.

[SpursWoman]

I don't even have any issues at all about the sking part ... I don't care what they do with their money. I just find it hard to understand people so apparently nasty and self-absorbed....and cause that much of a distraction and inconvience for that many people over something so fucking stupid.

[Marcus Bryant]

"She violently ran towards the cockpit, scaring everyone around her," said passenger Knicky Van Slyke. "Everyone was terrified about what was going on. And a bunch of flight attendants ran up and had to restrain her. She was banging on the door."
"Of the cockpit?" we asked.
"Yes."

How was this woman not charged with anything?

[SpursWoman]

How was this woman not charged with anything?


Because she's white.



















Oh, wait. I'm white, and I'd be behind bars. My best guess would be because she's rich.

:fro

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh, wait. I'm white, and I'd be behind bars. My best guess would be because she's rich.

:fro

Hmmm...I think being famous trumps being rich when it comes to evading justice in the US of A.

[j-6]

How was this woman not charged with anything?

She's the wife of the most famous preacherman with the biggest following in Continental's headquarters' city. The airline doesn't want a bunch of Lakeview's congregation (some of whom probably work for the airline) boycotting or giving negative pub to Continental for mistreating one of their leaders.

I bet the Osteen's have the DeGuerin firm on retainer, too.

[Marcus Bryant]

She's the wife of the most famous preacherman with the biggest following in Continental's headquarters' city. The airline doesn't want a bunch of Lakeview's congregation (some of whom probably work for the airline) boycotting or giving negative pub to Continental for mistreating one of their leaders.

I bet the Osteen's have the DeGuerin firm on retainer, too.


Exactly.

[SpursWoman]

Hmmm...I think being famous trumps being rich when it comes to evading justice in the US of A.


True ... I was thinking of them interchangebly in my mind. :princess

[Marcus Bryant]

How many famous peeps have ever paid for their crimes? Martha is the first one who comes to mind. Tyson did.

We'll see what happens with Ken Lay and the Enron peeps. Scrushy at HealthSouth evaded justice (edit: the 1st time around) by finding the Lord and throwing $$$ around town. Ebbers is about the only top exec who's seeing any serious time so far.

[T Park]

Yeah, I love Democrats

I was talking to NBADan.

But that obviously flew way over your head.

[Marcus Bryant]

All that's left is finding out whether or not Mrs. Osteen played the 'Don't you know who we are?' card.

[spurjur]

I see that there are a lot here who seem to be jealous and envious. Almost everyone who has posted in this thread is so quick to judge when a man or woman of God that happens to be very rich, but won't say what's in their closet.

Yeah like no one ever here has thrown a fit about this, that, or the other. No one here has ever gotten upset about little things in life. Please. The reason why you guys are so quick to hate on this family is because of envy and jealousy. Don't try to twist it. None of you have the guts to admit it so I expect each and everyone one of you to respond harshly.

To Marcus, you have the Gospel (which means Good News) all wrong. Why don't you really read the bible before you try to preach. Do you not know that Jesus died so that you can have life and life in abundance? Wait, you believe all those who believe in Jesus should be poor because he was poor. Please show me where it says he was poor. How is it that the author and finisher, the Great I am, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the owner of everything in this world be poor? Is that possible? That Jesus who owns everything be poor at the same time?

[Mr. Defense]

Mockery, unless said in jest, is a sure sign of insecurity.

[Marcus Bryant]

Mockery is a sure sign of insecurity.

Not really. Again, no defense offered for what Osteen practices and preaches, save attacking the motivation.

[spurjur]

Book sales which are directly tied to his "ministry". This isn't hard to piece together.

You know, I have a cousin who is a minister. What's his salary from said ministry? $0. What's his royalty from book sales about how God wants you to be rich and get all the shit you want? $0. He works odd jobs during the week to support himself. Odd jobs such as a custodian for a local school district and as a cook.

Christ was a poor Jewish carpenter. He didn't live in the Dominion or River Oaks. He didn't take his family to Vail. He didn't say that you should seek riches in this life.

John 10:10 (Whole Chapter)
The thief cometh not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

[Marcus Bryant]

I see that there are a lot here who seem to be jealous and envious. Almost everyone who has posted in this thread is so quick to judge when a man or woman of God that happens to be very rich, but won't say what's in their closet.

Attacking the other is not a defense.




Yeah like no one ever here has thrown a fit about this, that, or the other. No one here has ever gotten upset about little things in life. Please. The reason why you guys are so quick to hate on this family is because of envy and jealousy. Don't try to twist it. None of you have the guts to admit it so I expect each and everyone one of you to respond harshly.


The next time I'm on the company plane I'm going to run towards the cockpit door and bang on it. I expect not to be charged with anything.





To Marcus, you have the Gospel (which means Good News) all wrong. Why don't you really read the bible before you try to preach. Do you not know that Jesus died so that you can have life and life in abundance? Wait, you believe all those who believe in Jesus should be poor because he was poor. Please show me where it says he was poor. How is it that the author and finisher, the Great I am, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the owner of everything in this world be poor? Is that possible? That Jesus who owns everything be poor at the same time?

Christ did not die so that we may have all the material goods and pleasures we want in this life. I have nothing wrong. He died so that we may be saved from our sins and have eternal life after we physically die. He didn't die on that cross so that we can drive to the Galleria in our Land Rover and shop at Cartier.

[Marcus Bryant]

John 10:10 (Whole Chapter)
The thief cometh not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


Life eternal.

Remember this:



"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him" 1 John 2:15.

?

[j-6]

I see that there are a lot here who seem to be jealous and envious. Almost everyone who has posted in this thread is so quick to judge when a man or woman of God that happens to be very rich, but won't say what's in their closet.

Yeah like no one ever here has thrown a fit about this, that, or the other. No one here has ever gotten upset about little things in life. Please. The reason why you guys are so quick to hate on this family is because of envy and jealousy. Don't try to twist it. None of you have the guts to admit it so I expect each and everyone one of you to respond harshly.

To Marcus, you have the Gospel (which means Good News) all wrong. Why don't you really read the bible before you try to preach. Do you not know that Jesus died so that you can have life and life in abundance? Wait, you believe all those who believe in Jesus should be poor because he was poor. Please show me where it says he was poor. How is it that the author and finisher, the Great I am, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the owner of everything in this world be poor? Is that possible? That Jesus who owns everything be poor at the same time?

:lmao

I love me some Bible-thumpers playin' D for one of their own. Some things, like attractive wealthy megachurch pastors' wives going ballistic in first class on a quick vacation trip to the rich playgrounds of Vail less than a week until Christmas and getting kicked off an airplane causing regular folks aboard to be delayed for up to two hours, are just funny. No need to read into it any further than that.

[Mr. Defense]

Not really. Again, no defense offered for what Osteen practices and preaches, save attacking the motivation.

i do not know the man. judge others at your own risk. :tu

[ObiwanGinobili]

I don't even have any issues at all about the sking part ... I don't care what they do with their money. I just find it hard to understand people so apparently nasty and self-absorbed....and cause that much of a distraction and inconvience for that many people over something so fucking stupid.


exactofreakingfuckinglutely :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

i do not know the man. judge others at your own risk. :tu

Defend those who live and preach a false Gospel at your own risk. :tu :tu :tu :tu

[Mr. Defense]

Defend those who live and preach a false Gospel at your own risk. :tu :tu :tu :tu


i will do no such thing. i will defend myself and the ones i love. i will do that to the death. as you were sir.

[spurjur]

Attacking the other is not a defense.




The next time I'm on the company plane I'm going to run towards the cockpit door and bang on it. I expect not to be charged with anything.

Its called the favor of God.




Christ did not die so that we may have all the material goods and pleasures we want in this life. I have nothing wrong. He died so that we may be saved from our sins and have eternal life after we physically die. He didn't die on that cross so that we can drive to the Galleria in our Land Rover and shop at Cartier.

I agree that Jesus died for our sins that we may have eternal life, but there is so much to life. I don't know if you're a father Marcus, but if you are (it goes for any father) I imagine that you want the best for your children. Same with Jesus. We see him as our Father and our Father wants the best for His children.

Am I saying that everyone who believes should drive the lastest and best vehicle and live in the best house? No. However, God is the provider and supplier of all things. Read the bible Marcus and you'll find out. I'm not trying to argue with you. Please don't misunderstand me. I am just trying to get you to see where Pastor Joel Osteen gets some of his messages from.

If you were to watch him regularly or read some of his books, you would see that there is more to him having the largest church in the US and so on.

[ShoogarBear]

John 10:10 (Whole Chapter)
The thief cometh not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word "abundantly" there.

[spurjur]

:lmao

I love me some Bible-thumpers playin' D for one of their own. Some things, like attractive wealthy megachurch pastors' wives going ballistic in first class on a quick vacation trip to the rich playgrounds of Vail less than a week until Christmas and getting kicked off an airplane causing regular folks aboard to be delayed for up to two hours, are just funny. No need to read into it any further than that.

You must have been the pilot on the plane?

Wait. You're the one who wishes he can take his family to Vail, but can't for some reason.

[spurjur]

You have an interesting interpretation of the word "abundantly" there.

I didn't just mean the material things of this world. Its more than the cars, houses, and boats. Its mind, body, soul, and spirit.

[Marcus Bryant]

I didn't just mean the material things of this world. Its more than the cars, houses, and boats. Its mind, body, soul, and spirit.


It's life in Heaven with the Father and Son.

[Mr. Defense]

there's also something in the book about he without sin casting the 1st stone?

anyone? anyone?

[SpursWoman]

I see that there are a lot here who seem to be jealous and envious.


You're absolutely right. I really wish I had the ability to piss off and inconvenience hundreds, and treat people in the service industry already piled under one of their busiest times of the year like garbage with no conscience whatsoever over something completely ridiculous, because if I had more money and I were more famous, I'd be entitled to treat them that way. They could all go and get fucked for all I care, because I'm SpursWoman, gotdammit. See, I'm just jealous...because lack of fame and having conscience and compassion for others makes it impossible for me to behave that way.


:tu

[spurjur]

It's life in Heaven with the Father and Son.

I agree 100%. However, what are you to do while here on earth? Live dirt poor from paycheck to paycheck? Drive broken down vehicles and live in a one bedroom house with only cold running water?

[Marcus Bryant]

You must have been the pilot on the plane?

Wait. You're the one who wishes he can take his family to Vail, but can't for some reason.


I can vacation in Vail. Why is it that you have to now charge that others are 'jealous' of a pastor who is getting rich off his ministry?

[1369]

You're absolutely right. I really wish I had the ability to piss off and inconvenience hundreds, and treat people in the service industry already piled under one of their busiest times of the year like garbage with no conscience whatsoever over something completely ridiculous, because if I had more money and I were more famous, I'd be entitled to treat them that way. They could all go and get fucked for all I care, because I'm SpursWoman, gotdammit. See, I'm just jealous...because lack of fame and having conscience and compassion for others makes it impossible to behave that way.


:tu

Diva.

[Mr. Defense]

I'm very interested in the facts of the supposed 'altercation'. Only then can evaluations be made.

[spurjur]

there's also something in the book about he without sin casting the 1st stone?

anyone? anyone?

Its obvious that no one in here has done any wrong to anyone.

[ObiwanGinobili]

whoa whoa whoa...

Are you arguing that Jesus wants the material best for us??????

wth?

whatever happened to:

1 Timothy 6: 7 -11
"For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out.
So, having sustenance and covering, we shall be content with these things.
However, those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and hurtful desires, which plunge men into destruction and ruin.
For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.
However, you, O man of God, flee from these things. But pursue righteousness, godly devotion, faith, love, endurance, mildness of temper."

yeah...... i always figured Jesus wanted the spiritual best for us....

[Marcus Bryant]

I agree 100%. However, what are you to do while here on earth? Live dirt poor from paycheck to paycheck? Drive broken down vehicles and live in a one bedroom house with only cold running water?

It's about losing focus. It's about a pastor who is preaching a false Gospel and apparently focused on the material. What a far cry from the Gospel. What a far cry from a Gospel that preached martyrdom and giving up the material.



John 15:18-19, "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

[spurjur]

I can vacation in Vail. Why is it that you have to now charge that others are 'jealous' of a pastor who is getting rich off his ministry?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then its probably a duck.

[T Park]

Im in now way saying what she did was right.

I was defending someone able to make a GOOD living.

It seems that everyone hates people that make money now adays.

[Marcus Bryant]

Im in now way saying what she did was right.

I was defending someone able to make a GOOD living.

It seems that everyone hates people that make money now adays.


T Park, it is about how that living is procured, including what is being represented as the Gospel Truth.

[j-6]

You must have been the pilot on the plane?

Wait. You're the one who wishes he can take his family to Vail, but can't for some reason.

Uhhh, no, and no (though I wouldn't mind going to Owl Farm in Eagle County one day). I don't envy the wealth of the Osteen family, either. After all, they're living off of other people's donations and people like you that bought his self-help titles. What's your point? That it's OK to be a belligerent see-you-next-Tuesday like Victoria was being if you attend Lakewood, tithe at the Compaq Center, and read Osteen's books?

[T Park]

So, if your interpreting right.

We should all quit our jobs, and live poor, or else we are fucked.

Right?

[ObiwanGinobili]

You're absolutely right. I really wish I had the ability to piss off and inconvenience hundreds, and treat people in the service industry already piled under one of their busiest times of the year like garbage with no conscience whatsoever over something completely ridiculous, because if I had more money and I were more famous, I'd be entitled to treat them that way. They could all go and get fucked for all I care, because I'm SpursWoman, gotdammit. See, I'm just jealous...because lack of fame and having conscience and compassion for others makes it impossible for me to behave that way.


:tu

:lmao

hey! maybe Mrs. Osteen while hold a class (once she gets back from Vail) that we can all attend & learn how best to do that!!?
wouldn't that be exciting? I wonder how much she'd charge.

SW=goddess

[spurjur]

whoa whoa whoa...

Are you arguing that Jesus wants the material best for us??????

wth?

whatever happened to:

1 Timothy 6: 7 -11
"For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out.
So, having sustenance and covering, we shall be content with these things.
However, those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and hurtful desires, which plunge men into destruction and ruin.
For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.
However, you, O man of God, flee from these things. But pursue righteousness, godly devotion, faith, love, endurance, mildness of temper."

yeah...... i always figured Jesus wanted the spiritual best for us....

Way to go. The key word is that the LOVE of money is so on and so on. Not money itself. Please show me in the bible where it says that all those who believe in God should be poor.

[SpursWoman]

Diva.



I'm telling you. Having a conscience sucks. :fro :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then its probably a duck.


Well, yeah. A minister who's made himself a millionaire off his ministry by advancing a bogus message of belief making you materially well off.

[T Park]

it is about how that living is procured

Ahhhh.

So the

"Do not judge, lest ye be judged" wouldn't fit here either eh?

[Marcus Bryant]

Way to go. The key word is that the LOVE of money is so on and so on. Not money itself. Please show me in the bible where it says that all those who believe in God should be poor.


Osteen is advancing the message that you should be focused on the material, that you should seek it out as a matter of your faith, that you should love that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ahhhh.

So the

"Do not judge, lest ye be judged" wouldn't fit here either eh?


The living is procured by advancing a false notion of the Gospel Truth. I have not done so.

[spurjur]

John 15:18-19, "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

That means Spiritually, those who believe are not like this world and thereof. It has nothing to do with being wealthy.

[ShoogarBear]

I didn't just mean the material things of this world. Its more than the cars, houses, and boats. Its mind, body, soul, and spirit.

I submit that the word "abundantly" in that statement has NOTHING to do with anything material, and has ONLY to do with "mind, body, soul, and spirit". The attempt it to even partially relate to material possessions is what I referred to as an interesting interpretation.

[Marcus Bryant]

That means Spiritually, those who believe are not like this world and thereof. It has nothing to do with being wealthy.

Sure it does. Wealth is of this world. Christ said not to love that. Osteen is saying something different.

[spurjur]

Osteen is advancing the message that you should be focused on the material, that you should seek it out as a matter of your faith, that you should love that.

Its obvious you haven't actually read the bible. I mean to where God has revealed what He says in the bible because if you have you would not be accusing this man of preaching a false notion.

I am not defending what she did because I have no idea what she did. Its obvious there was some altercation, but there are no details and I don't care to know them because she has to answer to God for what she did or said not me.

Its become obivous that there are so many people here with so much time on their hands to point and judge others. Why do you all actually take some of that free time to read the bible?

[T Park]

The living is procured by advancing a false notion of the Gospel Truth

I admit i havent sat down and listened to one of his WHOLE sermons.

But the few times ive heard him.

He seems like he just encourages people to work hard and enjoy life.

[ObiwanGinobili]

That means Spiritually, those who believe are not like this world and thereof. It has nothing to do with being wealthy.

materialism is of the world, pursuit of material things is worldly.
there's nothgin wrong with having money.
but if thats your main focus? your pursuit? if a person tries ot use god's word to justify thier blind materialistic greed?
come on.

[j-6]

Osteen is advancing the message that you should be focused on the material, that you should seek it out as a matter of your faith, that you should love that.

I don't think that Osteen is seeking out love of money. I think that he realizes that the key to uber-church success is a message everyone can relate to, including himself: the desire for financial success and freedom.

People can twist Bible verse up one way and down the other, so it's no surprise to me that he found his niche in saying that God wants his people to be materially wealthy. It's obviously working out very well for him, but it doesn't give his wife a pass to throw hissyfits on Continental.

[Mr. Defense]

There is no crime in being blessed by the Lord financially.
Especially if one gets there by preaching the word.
People judging ones financial situation without the facts are fools.
Put your pocketbooks on the table and tell the forum how much YOU have given to the poor first.

Now, Lusting for Money, Greed. Those are the sins to beware.

[spurjur]

I submit that the word "abundantly" in that statement has NOTHING to do with anything material, and has ONLY to do with "mind, body, soul, and spirit". The attempt it to even partially relate to material possessions is what I referred to as an interesting interpretation.

Yeah because we all know that in order to survive in this world we only need mind body and soul. What do we need money for? We can live in this world for free.

[spurjur]

materialism is of the world, pursuit of material things is worldly.
there's nothgin wrong with having money.
but if thats your main focus? your pursuit? if a person tries ot use god's word to justify thier blind materialistic greed?
come on.

How do you know its his main focus? You live with him? You see him or work with him on a day to day basis? I doubt it. He does preach a message that says you and you and can have this and that if you believe you can. How come no one has said anything when 50 Cent says "Get Rich or Die Tryin'? When a man of God who happens to have as much or more money than 50 Cent says something about God wanting the best for you, everyone throws a fit?

[Marcus Bryant]

There is no crime in being blessed by the Lord financially.
Especially if one gets there by preaching the word.
People judging ones financial situation without the facts are fools.
Put your pocketbooks on the table and tell the forum how much YOU have given to the poor first.

Now, Lusting for Money, Greed. Those are the sins to beware.


There is a problem in teaching that belief is about making you well off. There is a problem in teaching that you should be a Christian because then you'll get the house, car, clothes, etc that you want. That is based on a love of things material.

[spurjur]

I am not trying to offend anyone here in this Forum. By no means. If I have, I am sorry. I am not trying to argue with anyone as well. I like people in this forum because we cheer for the same team.

However, I just think its wrong that some people here think its wrong for a man of God who happens to be a Pastor be wealthy. Yet no one gets upset that there are Rap Artists who sing about killing this person, smoking weed, sleeping with many women, and who cusses over and over? Doesn't that seem weird?

[Marcus Bryant]

How do you know its his main focus? You live with him? You see him or work with him on a day to day basis? I doubt it. He does preach a message that says you and you and can have this and that if you believe you can.

Why is he preaching that you can have the material things you want if you believe? That isn't the Gospel Truth.




How come no one has said anything when 50 Cent says "Get Rich or Die Tryin'? When a man of God who happens to have as much or more money than 50 Cent says something about God wanting the best for you, everyone throws a fit?

Osteen is saying 'Get Rich when you believe'. There's a problem with that.

[spurjur]

There is a problem in teaching that belief is about making you well off. There is a problem in teaching that you should be a Christian because then you'll get the house, car, clothes, etc that you want. That is based on a love of things material.

Marcus, that's not all he preaches about. You should actually read one of his books. Listen to a few of his sermons. He is not saying, "hey come and accept Christ so that you too can live in a mansion." He spreads all kinds of messages.

[Mr. Defense]

Sure it does. Wealth is of this world. Christ said not to love that. Osteen is saying something different.


proof?

[ObiwanGinobili]

How do you know its his main focus? You live with him? You see him or work with him on a day to day basis? I doubt it. He does preach a message that says you and you and can have this and that if you believe you can. How come no one has said anything when 50 Cent says "Get Rich or Die Tryin'? When a man of God who happens to have as much or more money than 50 Cent says something about God wanting the best for you, everyone throws a fit?


a. find where I posted anything about mr. osteen.

b. all your posts are going alonghte lines of : "it;s ok to pursue worldly riches as a course of life because Jesus thinks it;s great and he wants the best for us" . I'm saying thats screwed.

c. you;d have to be an idiot to think that 50cent's album titles or lyrics are a good message on how to live life. I never thought it was worth pointing out and discussing.

[Mr. Defense]

Why is he preaching that you can have the material things you want if you believe? That isn't the Gospel Truth.




Osteen is saying 'Get Rich when you believe'. There's a problem with that.


you are a fool if you think that means money. Believers treasures are in heaven my friend. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

I am not trying to offend anyone here in this Forum. By no means. If I have, I am sorry. I am not trying to argue with anyone as well. I like people in this forum because we cheer for the same team.

However, I just think its wrong that some people here think its wrong for a man of God who happens to be a Pastor be wealthy. Yet no one gets upset that there are Rap Artists who sing about killing this person, smoking weed, sleeping with many women, and who cusses over and over? Doesn't that seem weird?

It seems weird that the defense is that he's not a rapper.

He's wealthy because of his ministry. He's making $ off a bastardized version of the Gospel. There is a problem with that. He's living at odds with the Gospel, just like those rappers.

[Marcus Bryant]

you are a fool if you think that means money. Believers treasures are in heaven my friend. :tu


That is not what Osteen is preaching. He is preaching that you can get what material items you want here on Earth through belief.

[spurjur]

[QUOTE=Marcus Bryant]Why is he preaching that you can have the material things you want if you believe? That isn't the Gospel Truth.

Because you can. Don't you believe that you can do anything in this world if you really have faith and put your mind to it? Every motivational speaker says that. Not in those exact words, but its all the same. Why is it different when he says it? Because he's a Pastor? That's not right. Once again, you really need to study the bible before you blurt things out.

[Marcus Bryant]

proof?


proof (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446532754/qid=1135196029/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0057843-9515127?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)

[spurjur]

It seems weird that the defense is that he's not a rapper.

He's wealthy because of his ministry. He's making $ off a bastardized version of the Gospel. There is a problem with that. He's living at odds with the Gospel, just like those rappers.

Prove it.

[Marcus Bryant]

Because you can. Don't you believe that you can do anything in this world if you really have faith and put your mind to it? Every motivational speaker says that. Not in those exact words, but its all the same. Why is it different when he says it? Because he's a Pastor? That's not right. Once again, you really need to study the bible before you blurt things out.

What? He's a pastor, not a motivational or self-help speaker for those who want to make more $. He not supposed to be a Dale Carnegie, Anthony Robbins or Napoleon Hill.

[Marcus Bryant]

Prove it.


You just said it yourself. Take a look at his book if you need more proof.

[spurjur]

a. find where I posted anything about mr. osteen.

b. all your posts are going alonghte lines of : "it;s ok to pursue worldly riches as a course of life because Jesus thinks it;s great and he wants the best for us" . I'm saying thats screwed.

c. you;d have to be an idiot to think that 50cent's album titles or lyrics are a good message on how to live life. I never thought it was worth pointing out and discussing.

I am not saying that believe in Christ is all about getting rich and neither is Joel Osteen, but there are verses in the bible where it talks about God giving to those who ask. Yes, its not about just money. Its about deliverance from drugs, being healed of cancer, and so, but God does want the best for His children.

I never said that one should live off of 50 Cent's lyrics. Just pointed out a fact the no one seems to get upset that he uses violent lyrics and such to get rich. It was an example.

[spurjur]

You just said it yourself. Take a look at his book if you need more proof.

You can't pove that all he preaches about is getting rich.

[Marcus Bryant]

I am not saying that believe in Christ is all about getting rich and neither is Joel Osteen, but there are verses in the bible where it talks about God giving to those who ask. Yes, its not about just money. Its about deliverance from drugs, being healed of cancer, and so, but God does want the best for His children.

I never said that one should live off of 50 Cent's lyrics. Just pointed out a fact the no one seems to get upset that he uses violent lyrics and such to get rich. It was an example.


It is also rather clear in the Bible that you should not live your life worrying about the material. It is quite clear that it would much more difficult for those who seek wealth to make it to Heaven.

[Marcus Bryant]

You can't pove that all he preaches about is getting rich.


He preaches that and it is directly at odds with the Gospel. No partial credit when it comes to that, y'know?

[spurjur]

Look, I didn't post to step on anyone's toes. I just don't want people to believe that you can't ask God to help you reach success. Whether it be success in your financial status, success in your marriage, success as employee, employer, friend, and etc. I don't know what happened on that plane and don't care to. Its none of my business.

[Mr. Defense]

Marcus, that review was obviously biased. It called all the positives in the book 'repetative' and it scorned the giving section as too little too late.

When you can produce facts that Mr. Olsteen is in fact, Hoarding money without just cause?

And then show proof that you are giving a higher percentage of your income?

THEN, You'll have a point.

[Mr. Defense]

spurjur, what you and I must realize, is that we are not here for those that think they are Good enough. We are here for the lost. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

Marcus, that review was obviously biased. It called all the positives in the book 'repetative' and it scorned the giving section as too little too late.

When you can produce facts that Mr. Olsteen is in fact, Hoarding money without just cause?

And then show proof that you are giving a higher percentage of your income?

THEN, You'll have a point.


I didn't cite a specific review I cited the book itself. He's making $ off a false Gospel.

I don't make any $ from spreading a false Gospel.

[spurjur]

It is also rather clear in the Bible that you should not live your life worrying about the material. It is quite clear that it would much more difficult for those who seek wealth to make it to Heaven.

You got it. I'm not arguing that. People shouldn't worry about getting rich. People should focus on getting right with God. I completely agree Marcus. However, I believe its OK to be wealthy and believe in God.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look, I didn't post to step on anyone's toes. I just don't want people to believe that you can't ask God to help you reach success. Whether it be success in your financial status, success in your marriage, success as employee, employer, friend, and etc. I don't know what happened on that plane and don't care to. Its none of my business.


That is incorrect. You don't pray to God so you can drive a Benz and live in an expensive house.

[Marcus Bryant]

spurjur, what you and I must realize, is that we are not here for those that think they are Good enough. We are here for the lost. :tu


You don't reach the lost by telling them that Christianity will make them rich.

[spurjur]

I didn't cite a specific review I cited the book itself. He's making $ off a false Gospel.

I don't make any $ from spreading a false Gospel.

His book actually has bible verses in it to back what he is saying. Once again, that's not all he preaches though. You really have to actually listen to more of his sermons.

[Marcus Bryant]

His book actually has bible verses in it to back what he is saying. Once again, that's not all he preaches though. You really have to actually listen to more of his sermons.


Again, an incorrect part is not rectified by perhaps another correct part.

[spurjur]

That is incorrect. You don't pray to God so you can drive a Benz and live in an expensive house.

So those who believe in God should be poor?

[SpursWoman]

"If you want God to love you and to make you rich...if you want to bask in the glory of eternal salvation...send me money or buy my book! Or both!"


I haven't seen him in particular, because I don't care much for TVangelists from what I have seen. :fro

[Mr. Defense]

You don't reach the lost by telling them that Christianity will make them rich.


But it will. You are just thinking about the wrong kind of rich. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

So those who believe in God should be poor?


Those who believe in God should not believe that their faith will be rewarded with material wealth.

[spurjur]

I never said that God is all about giving big houses and nice cars to those who believe in Him. He is Savior and Ruler of this world. I believe one must make Him Savior of one's life and Ruler as well.

[Marcus Bryant]

But it will. You are just thinking about the wrong kind of rich. :tu


Again, Osteen is advancing a contrary notion.

[Marcus Bryant]

I never said that God is all about giving big houses and nice cars to those who believe in Him. He is Savior and Ruler of this world. I believe one must make Him Savior of one's life and Ruler as well.

Then why should we be asking for a luxury sedan? That's material.

[spurjur]

"If you want God to love you and to make you rich...if you want to bask in the glory of eternal salvation...send me money or buy my book! Or both!"


I haven't seen him in particular, because I don't care much for TVangelists from what I have seen. :fro
So why judge him?

[Mr. Defense]

I didn't cite a specific review I cited the book itself. He's making $ off a false Gospel.

I don't make any $ from spreading a false Gospel.


that's not a false Gospel, it's just a book. pssst, there a millions of them out there...:lol

and a very small percentage will help as his would...

maybe your well off, maybe you don't need it. Good for YOU. :tu

[spurjur]

Then why should we be asking for a luxury sedan? That's material.

Show me where I said that or where Joel Osteen said that? I believe that if you want to gain wealth then do it. Just don't put that before God. As a matter of fact, I believe that you shouldn't put anything before God.

[Mr. Defense]

Those who believe in God should not believe that their faith will be rewarded with material wealth.



I can agree with you there. But Faith in God leads to hard work. Faith in God leads to Good Actions. Self responsibility, etc, etc. Being Kind and Loving to all others. Even Loving thine enemies.

If people with little to zero faith can get rich? Then TRUST this, Followers of God and Jesus will be truly Blessed. It's not our fault all you can see is the money.

[Marcus Bryant]

So why judge him?

So nobody is allowed to point out that he's spreading a false teaching, one contradicted by Scripture? That's not judging him.

[Marcus Bryant]

that's not a false Gospel, it's just a book. pssst, there a millions of them out there...:lol

and a very small percentage will help as his would...

maybe your well off, maybe you don't need it. Good for YOU. :tu


It's a book that advances a false teaching.

[SpursWoman]

So why judge him?


Actually, I wasn't ... if people are suckered into believing that material wealth is the beat-all, end-all of a solid, spiritual existence...and the true meaning of God's love...then bully for them.


I just happen to believe, by the instances cited in this thread, that his wife is an over-indulged, spoiled, selfish bitch. :)

[Marcus Bryant]

I can agree with you there. But Faith in God leads to hard work. Faith in God leads to Good Actions. Self responsibility, etc, etc. Being Kind and Loving to all others. Even Loving thine enemies.

If people with little to zero faith can get rich? Then TRUST this, Followers of God and Jesus will be truly Blessed. It's not our fault all you can see is the money.


I see the false teaching which has generated the wealth.

Not every believer becomes wealthy or even escapes poverty. Faith is not about that.

[spurjur]

Marcus, you obviously believe he is teaching a false gospel. Nothing I can do to change your mind. You have the right to believe that. God gave us freedom to do that. I would just ask you to actually read a couple of his books or listen to several of his messages before you come to that conclusion.

[Mr. Defense]

It's a book that advances a false teaching.


uhh, okay. That's your opinion and you are more than entitled to it.

Do you have a list of all the books that advance false teachings?

It should be a doozie. :lmao

[katyon6th]

I like the Joel's accent.

[spurjur]

Actually, I wasn't ... if people are suckered into believing that material wealth is the beat-all, end-all of a solid, spiritual existence...and the true meaning of God's love...then bully for them.


I just happen to believe, judging by the instances cited in this thread, that his wife is an over-indulged, selfish bitch. :)

Take the plank out of your own eye before you try to take the speck out of the other's eye. :)

[Marcus Bryant]

The guy has crap written about how if you really believe you'll get all that you want, even a good parking space at the mall.

Accepting Christ has nothing to do about enabling you to get the Beamer and furs you want, it is about salvation.

[SpursWoman]

Take the plank out of your own eye before you try to take the speck out of the other's eye. :)

I bag my own groceries at the store when there is no bag-person and the cashier is trying to scan all of my things to get the line moving quicker....I sure as hell won't throw a fit because a little liquid...I'd clean it up myself.

I would never intentionally cause such a commotion that would quite possibly cause a couple of hundred (?) people to miss connecting flights and delay reaching their loved ones. Because I think of things like that before I act. There is no plank in my eye. There is ZERO excuse for her behavior. :spin

[Mr. Defense]

I see the false teaching which has generated the wealth.

Not every believer becomes wealthy or even escapes poverty. Faith is not about that.


You don't need to preach to me what Faith is about. :lol

A book may have generated his wealth. I see nothing more than a man telling his story of what worked for him and incorporating his Faith in God.

Does that mean anyone and everyone who has Faith in God and Jesus is going to be filthy rich?

Of course not. As a matter of fact, Anyone who makes millions and millions due to God's Blessings, SHOULD GIVE THE MAJORITY OF IT AWAY!

There are starving people all over the world. Kids that need medicine.

I believe the RICH Financially have a responsibility to provide for those that CANNOT provide for themselves. We don't need much to live. Provide for your family, provide for education, provide shelter, clothing and food. A couple million can provide that for a lifetime. Anything else? Frivelous.

Extra monies could be spend to turn money grubbing corporations into non-profits for the needy.

I don't know what Mr. Olsteens Checkbook looks like sir. I don't believe any of us do. So you and others are just blindly slinging mud on something you know nothing about. Are you willing to put your finances up for review/speculation?

Are you willing to have mud flung at you?

That's rhetorical. But please, just ask yourself.

[Mr. Defense]

The TRUE MEANING OF FOLLOWING GOD AND JESUS IS LOVE.

so for those spouting judgement and hate? check yo self. Thanks.

[spurjur]

I bag my own groceries at the store when there is no bag-person and the cashier is trying to scan all of my things....I sure as hell won't throw a fit because a little liquid...I'd clean it up myself.

I would never intentionally cause such a commotion that would quite possibly cause a couple of hundred (?) people to miss connecting flights and delay reaching their loved ones. Because I think of things like that before I act. There is no plank in my eye. :spin

I never said you have caused a comotion at the HEB or on a flight departing SA International. I was just saying that how can you try to correct someone else's faults when you have some yourself.

[SpursWoman]

The TRUE MEANING OF FOLLOWING GOD AND JESUS IS LOVE.

so for those spouting judgement and hate? check yo self. Thanks.

But it's okay for HER to treat those "beneath" her like shit and have no consideration for all of the other passengers ... the true meaning of LOVE and COMPASSION. Gottcha. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

You don't need to preach to me what Faith is about. :lol

A book may have generated his wealth. I see nothing more than a man telling his story of what worked for him and incorporating his Faith in God.


Again, it's what he is representing to be the Christian faith. It is not in the Gospel that you should be asking God to make you rich.




Does that mean anyone and everyone who has Faith in God and Jesus is going to be filthy rich?

Of course not. As a matter of fact, Anyone who makes millions and millions due to God's Blessings, SHOULD GIVE THE MAJORITY OF IT AWAY!

There are starving people all over the world. Kids that need medicine.


Well, you said it yourself.




I believe the RICH Financially have a responsibility to provide for those that CANNOT provide for themselves. We don't need much to live. Provide for your family, provide for education, provide shelter, clothing and food. A couple million can provide that for a lifetime. Anything else? Frivelous.

Extra monies could be spend to turn money grubbing corporations into non-profits for the needy.

I don't know what Mr. Olsteens Checkbook looks like sir. I don't believe any of us do. So you and others are just blindly slinging mud on something you know nothing about.

The guy has a NY Times bestseller which claims that all you need to do is believe in God and you'll get all the material items you want.



Are you willing to put your finances up for review/speculation?


I have not made my $ by spreading a false Gospel.




Are you willing to have mud flung at you?


Sure. That doesn't excuse a public figure using a bastardized teaching to enrich himself.




That's rhetorical. But please, just ask yourself.

Ask yourself whether it is worth winning converts at all costs.

[Mr. Defense]

But it's okay for HER to treat those "beneath" her like shit and have no consideration for all of the other passengers ... the true meaning of LOVE and COMPASSION. Gottcha. :tu



now where did i say it was okay?

i said i wanted the facts. nothing more.

[Marcus Bryant]

The TRUE MEANING OF FOLLOWING GOD AND JESUS IS LOVE.

so for those spouting judgement and hate? check yo self. Thanks.


How about those spreading a false version of Christianity? Do they get a pass because, well, they call it Christianity?

[spurjur]

But it's okay for HER to treat those "beneath" her like shit and have no consideration for all of the other passengers ... the true meaning of LOVE and COMPASSION. Gottcha. :tu

I don't recall anyone saying that what she MAY have said or done was cool. No one here has defended her actions. It would be impossible because none of us was there. Relax.

[Mr. Defense]

Again, it's what he is representing to be the Christian faith. It is not in the Gospel that you should be asking God to make you rich.




Well, you said it yourself.




The guy has a NY Times bestseller which claims that all you need to do is believe in God and you'll get all the material items you want.



I have not made my $ by spreading a false Gospel.




Sure. That doesn't excuse a public figure using a bastardized teaching to enrich himself.




Ask yourself whether it is worth winning converts at all costs.


We are not here to win converts. People have to make their own choices.

You judge his book like he called it 'Another Book of the Holy Bible! Get Filthy Rich! God Said it's Cool to Be Rich and Greedy!'

c'mon man.

all the assholes out there writing books, books of who and how to
murder others, and how the most evil men did it,


but Your gonna pick this one to call out? c'mon. :lol

[SpursWoman]

I never said you have caused a comotion at the HEB or on a flight departing SA International. I was just saying that how can you try to correct someone else's faults when you have some yourself.



Because I have sympathy for the innocent people she inconvenienced on that flight because of her spoiled, ridiculous behavior. Had I been on it, I'd have personally gotten her luggage for her....and she probably wouldn't have enjoyed how that all turned out.

I don't like rude, selfish people. Maybe that particular character flaw will send me straight to hell and render me penniless, but it makes my life more enjoyable when I can avoid people like that and prevent them from interfering in my life....like she did all of those other people. :)

[Mr. Defense]

How about those spreading a false version of Christianity? Do they get a pass because, well, they call it Christianity?

of course not. But only GOD has final judgement. Not you or I.

there are many that do much worse, that get a 'pass'.

Jesus died for ALL OUR SINS brother. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

We are not here to win converts. People have to make their own choices.

We aren't?




You judge his book like he called it 'Another Book of the Holy Bible! Get Filthy Rich! God Said it's Cool to Be Rich and Greedy!'


Well, it's like that, albeit without the title. Pick it up, you'll be surprised.




c'mon man.

all the assholes out there writing books, books of who and how to
murder others, and how the most evil men did it,


but Your gonna pick this one to call out? c'mon. :lol

Sure, it is contrary to the Gospel. 'But others are worse' is not an excuse.

[SpursWoman]

I don't recall anyone saying that what she MAY have said or done was cool. No one here has defended her actions. It would be impossible because none of us was there. Relax.


I'm going from what was quoted by the other passengers that were there reported. And judging by her removal from the plane, they couldn't have been completely false recounts.

[Marcus Bryant]

of course not. But only GOD has final judgement. Not you or I.

there are many that do much worse, that get a 'pass'.

Jesus died for ALL OUR SINS brother. :tu


Sure. Now you have people being misled into believing that God wants them to get all the stuff they want.

[Mr. Defense]

We aren't?

Well, it's like that, albeit without the title. Pick it up, you'll be surprised.

Sure, it is contrary to the Gospel. 'But others are worse' is not an excuse.


Well, let me clarify. It's not OUR Victory. If I personally can help someone to help themselves by the EXAMPLE that I set. I will feel joy. But not pride. That is a victory in the name of the Lord. I am but a pawn.

I have not read his book. And not to be rude, but I don't need to. I want to focus on ONE book right now. I'm sure you know which I speak of. :tu

I make no excuses for the man. I just wonder what your personal criteria for calling out Sinners is. :tu

[Mr. Defense]

Sure. Now you have people being misled into believing that God wants them to get all the stuff they want.


God will give to his Children whatever they ask for at HIS discretion.

But they must have FAITH.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, let me clarify. It's not OUR Victory. If I personally can help someone to help themselves by the EXAMPLE that I set. I will feel joy. But not pride. That is a victory in the name of the Lord. I am but a pawn.

I have not read his book. And not to be rude, but I don't need to. I want to focus on ONE book right now. I'm sure you know which I speak of. :tu

I make no excuses for the man. I just wonder what your personal criteria for calling out Sinners is. :tu


I'm saying the man is spreading a false teaching. Christ told us to beware of such individuals.

[spurjur]

Because I have sympathy for the innocent people she inconvenienced on that flight because of her spoiled, ridiculous behavior. Had I been on it, I'd have personally gotten her luggage for her....and she probably wouldn't have enjoyed how that all turned out.

I don't like rude, selfish people. Maybe that particular character flaw will send me straight to hell and render me penniless, but it makes my life more enjoyable when I can avoid people like that and prevent them from interfering in my life....like she did all of those other people. :)

I'm sure you have never acted this way in your life.

[Phenomanul]

So nobody is allowed to point out that he's spreading a false teaching, one contradicted by Scripture? That's not judging him.


Marcus I actually read through about 5-6 pages of your arguments... I'll just point you to read the book of JOB or perhaps note that King Solomon was probably the wealthiest man alive...

Is this our intent in life... no, cause that would mean it was our focus. Like you've already stated... Does this mean however, that GOD will not bless those who honor him with material things?... No.... Again look at the examples from above... Does it also mean that if I believe in GOD I will ultimately end up materially wealthy...NO!!

My father is a pastor and earns an annual salary of $16,000 per year (there were 5 of us living off of this salary for the longest time... and did we ever lack anything...no... did we mooch off of the goverment for aid... no (financial aid is different in that now MY salary now generates more taxes than the financial aid that was given to me... foward investment by the govt) Anyways... we were rich "spiritually" but also "materially"... GOD just gave my father the wisdom to become a good steward of our income...

Anyways, I can kind of understand the belligerence toward pastors with millionaire salaries... but unless you scrutinize their checkbook... we are not ones to judge...

As for the tax-excempt clause... ummm someone tried to mislead the thread... that only works for stuff bought for the use of the church... As far as I know my dad pays taxes on his house, his car, etc...

[Marcus Bryant]

God will give to his Children whatever they ask for at HIS discretion.

But they must have FAITH.


Sure, at God's discretion. And again, faith is not about being concerned with the material. As you progress in your faith, the material means less and less.

[Mr. Defense]

I'm saying the man is spreading a false teaching. Christ told us to beware of such individuals.


Agreed. The way to tell is simple.
Are the words you hear/read based upon Love?

If so. I'd listen very carefully.


If not. I'd Listen anyway. But I'd beware.

[Marcus Bryant]

Agreed. The way to tell is simple.
Are the words you hear/read based upon Love?

If so. I'd listen very carefully.


If not. I'd Listen anyway. But I'd beware.


Love does not make a false teaching anything else.

[Mr. Defense]

Sure, at God's decision. And again, faith is not about being concerned with the material. As you progress in your faith, the material means less and less.


you telling this to a man that has been unemployed since Aug 25th. :)

i.e. no income.

am i worried? not a bit.

[Mr. Defense]

Love does not make a false teaching anything else.


False teachings are not based upon love, is my point sir. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

Marcus I actually read through about 5-6 pages of your arguments... I'll just point you to read the book of JOB or perhaps note that King Solomon was probably the wealthiest man alive...

Is this our intent in life... no, cause that would mean it was our focus. Like you've already stated... Does this mean however, that GOD will not bless those who honor him with material things?... No.... Again look at the examples from above... Does it also mean that if I believe in GOD I will ultimately end up materially wealthy...NO!!

My father is a pastor and earns an annual salary of $16,000 per year (there were 5 of us living off of this salary for the longest time... and did we ever lack anything...no... did we mooch off of the goverment for aid... no (financial aid is different in that now MY salary now generates more taxes than the financial aid that was given to me... foward investment by the govt) Anyways... we were rich "spiritually" but also "materially"... GOD just gave my father the wisdom to become a good steward of our income...

Anyways, I can kind of understand the belligerence toward pastors with millionaire salaries... but unless you scrutinize their checkbook... we are not ones to judge...

As for the tax-excempt clause... ummm someone tried to mislead the thread... that only works for stuff bought for the use of the church... As far as I know my dad pays taxes on his house, his car, etc...


The point is that he is spreading a false teaching, one that advances the notion that faith will get you the material things you want. He's done very well for himself as a result.

[Mr. Defense]

so do you think it's even at least plausible that he is just telling the world what worked for him?

and letting people read and do as they choose?

the point has been made, but i don't see anyone complaining about rappers promoting endless pussy, drugs, alchohol and bling if they sell out and sing about it all and put a diamond encrusted cross around their neck.

[SpursWoman]

I'm sure you have never acted this way in your life.


Rarely, if ever...that's not my personality....toddlerhood excluded. And certainly not when it directly affected that many other people. So the pot-calling-the-kettle-black defense in criticizing her behavior doesn't apply. :drunk

[Marcus Bryant]

so do you think it's even at least plausible that he is just telling the world what worked for him?

and letting people read and do as they choose?

When he represents that as Gospel, there is a problem.




the point has been made, but i don't see anyone complaining about rappers promoting endless pussy, drugs, alchohol and bling if they sell out and sing about it all and put a diamond encrusted cross around their neck.

Actually, people do complain about that. But the artists aren't saying that the Gospel is about that.

[Mr. Defense]

Rarely, if ever...that's not my personality....toddlerhood excluded. And certainly not when it directly affected that many other people. So the pot-calling-the-kettle-black defense in criticizing her behavior doesn't apply. :drunk


so SW, what if this is one of Mrs. Olsteens 'rare' moments?

[Mr. Defense]

When he represents that as Gospel, there is a problem.




Actually, people do complain about that. But the artists aren't saying that the Gospel is about that.


when they put that bling bling cross around their necks? they SURE ARE. :depressed Can you say FALSE PROPHET?

[SpursWoman]

so SW, what if this is one of Mrs. Olsteens 'rare' moments?

Well, I guess if you're going to go off the deep end, you might as well take as many with you as possible, right? :fro

[Marcus Bryant]

when they put that bling bling cross around their necks? they SURE ARE. :depressed Can you say FALSE PROPHET?


I don't disagree.

[Mr. Defense]

Well, I guess if you're going to go off the deep end, you might as well take as many with you as possible, right? :fro


you have a good point. she makes them count, i'll give her that...:lol

[spurjur]

Rarely, if ever...that's not my personality....toddlerhood excluded. And certainly not when it directly affected that many other people. So the pot-calling-the-kettle-black defense in criticizing her behavior doesn't apply. :drunk

So you're saying you have acted this way?

[Marcus Bryant]

The point is wrt Mrs. Osteen is that she exhibited something less than humility and grace. She also apparently got away with interfering with a flight crew. Next time you are on a flight start yelling, run to the cockpit door and bang on it. I'm sure the airline and the authorities will be just as understanding...

[mookie2001]

do yall think shes republican?, honestly

[ObiwanGinobili]

do yall think shes republican?, honestly


:lmao @ mookie.... all 8 pages into it......:lol :lol I just spit grape juice out my nose.... :lmao

[Mr. Defense]

The point is wrt Mrs. Osteen is that she exhibited something less than humility and grace. She also apparently got away with interfering with a flight crew. Next time you are on a flight start yelling, run to the cockpit door and bang on it. I'm sure the airline and the authorities will be just as understanding...


I agree with you. She should have known better. Put Bag in the overhead, sit down, buckle up, shaddup. I refuse to look at her financial status, but I have no problem evaluating her behavior. The attendant's behavior is in question as well though, although, i probbobaly would give the attendant the benefit of the doubt at this point.

[Guru of Nothing]

This one never gets old. (http://downloads.eonstreams.com/ccri/tn_memphis/dvby83dvby3g93evb78/fartingpreacher.wmv)

[SpursWoman]

So you're saying you have acted this way?


No, I'm not...I could very confidently say I have never acted that way, but in the slightest chance I might have and don't remember...I threw in the rarely ... and I'm sure if I'd have gotten thrown off of an airplane for rushing the cockpit that'd kind of stick in my memory.

I can't believe you're trying to justify her behavior by what I might or might not have done. This isn't about me...it's a forum of opinion and discussion, and the topic of discussion is some rich broad getting thrown off a plane for having an unjustifyable temper tantrum, causing a great inconvenience to a lot of people. She was wrong and her behavior was ridiculous. If you don't agree with that, I really don't know what else to tell you. :lol

[mookie2001]

simple question


would you bet shes a conservative republican or any other affiliation on earth?

[Mr. Defense]

i agree with everything you said SW, except for the 'rich' part. that shouldn't matter.

[Mr. Defense]

simple question


would you bet shes a conservative republican or any other affiliation on earth?



what is with your incessant need to label people.

[Marcus Bryant]

simple question


would you bet shes a conservative republican or any other affiliation on earth?


Certainly.

[mookie2001]

I live off houston hwy and know first hand how peoples chodes implode for that church
theyre on tv everyday, not just sundays

its like people worship them and pay for the most elite of churches
its the prostitution of the word
plain and simple
I guarantee you the olsteens are so paid out they make jim salivate with envy

[SpursWoman]

simple question


would you bet shes a conservative republican or any other affiliation on earth?

Going by her behavior, she's spoiled with a skewed sense of entitlement that seems to come with money and fame...not unlike the Hollywood Divas I've heard so much about in Cosmo. That alone puts her more "in" with the Democratic crowd.

She could go either way, IMO. :spin

[spurjur]

No, I'm not...I could very confidently say I have never acted that way, but in the slightest chance I might have and don't remember...I threw in the rarely ... and I'm sure if I'd have gotten thrown off of an airplane for rushing the cockpit that'd kind of stick in my memory.

I can't believe you're trying to justify her behavior by what I might or might not have done. This isn't about me...it's a forum of opinion and discussion, and the topic of discussion is some rich broad getting thrown off a plane for having an unjustifyable temper tantrum, causing a great inconvenience to a lot of people. She was wrong and her behavior was ridiculous. If you don't agree with that, I really don't know what else to tell you. :lol

Don't get it twisted woman. I haven't defended her actions and I won't. I do not know what happened on that plane and don't care. I am just saying you and I and everyone else on this earth has done wrong in their life and will continue to fall short of God's glory. So, what gives us the right to say is this and that when we too have done wrong.

We may have not rushed a cockpit or caused a two hour delay at an airport, but we've fallen short.

[Marcus Bryant]

living off houston hwy peoples chode implodes for that fucking take your money church

its like people worship them and pay for the most elite of churches
its the prostitution of the word
plain and simple
I guarentee you the olsteens are so paid out they make jim salivate with envy


Whatever works, I suppose. People want to believe that God will make them rich, just like people want to believe that their adultery is ok, but homosexuals are going to rot in hell.

[mookie2001]

sac
because rich, white, women, good looking christian women. who have no job and a PAID OUT powerful Husband think that gives them the right to do whatever the fuck they want

[spurjur]

I live off houston hwy and know first hand how peoples chodes implode for that church
theyre on tv everyday, not just sundays

its like people worship them and pay for the most elite of churches
its the prostitution of the word
plain and simple
I guarantee you the olsteens are so paid out they make jim salivate with envy

You have the right to believe whatever you want. I'll just say that in my Opinion, you're not one to judge. Leave that up to the one who is in Control of everything. Its not Mookie neither.

[Mr. Defense]

I think we all realize that a sad fact of the matter is that not all those that goto church are saved. I'd venture to say that MOST aren't.

But at least we're in school. So to speak.

And yeah, unfortunately, many of those that are 'just going through the motions' want to do so in the highest status church they can find.

I got married at Castle Hills 1st Baptist, but it was too rich for me. And when Pastuer Harris left? That sealed my departure. I goto a small church across from West Avenue Elementary. El Centro Christiano. Much more personal. I feel I can actually make a difference there, and MOST IMPORTANT, I feel I get more out of the message. Thus get closer to Jesus with each passing Sunday. That is the point afterall. :tu

[spurjur]

sac
because rich, white, women, good looking christian women. who have no job and a PAID OUT powerful Husband think that gives them the right to do whatever the fuck they want

And just because none of your business has been reported in the Houston Chronicle it gives you the right to point your finger at her for doing something wrong. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[mookie2001]

You have the right to believe whatever you want. I'll just say that in my Opinion, you're not one to judge. Leave that up to the one who is in Control of everything. Its not Mookie neither.
I didnt curse her to hell

im saying that that fucking church is a business and a joke of a church

[mookie2001]

And just because none of your business has been reported in the Houston Chronicle it gives you the right to point your finger at her for doing something wrong. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
what the hell are you talking about?
we're DISCUSSING this







....on a message board?

[Mr. Defense]

sac
because rich, white, women, good looking christian women. who have no job and a PAID OUT powerful Husband think that gives them the right to do whatever the fuck they want


mookie, because poor black ugly non christian men with jobs and a broke no power wife think they have the right do do whatever the fuck they want.

I just typed the same statement as you.

Is my statement racist?

Is yours?

Thanks. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

I think we all realize that a sad fact of the matter is that not all those that goto church are saved. I'd venture to say that MOST aren't.

But at least we're in school. So to speak.

And yeah, unfortunately, many of those that are 'just going through the motions' want to do so in the highest status church they can find.

I got married at Castle Hills 1st Baptist, but it was too rich for me. And when Pastuer Harris left? That sealed my departure. I goto a small church across from West Avenue Elementary. El Centro Christiano. Much more personal. I feel I can actually make a difference there, and MOST IMPORTANT, I feel I get more out of the message. Thus get closer to Jesus with each passing Sunday. That is the point afterall. :tu


I don't believe that one should become a pastor because they want to get wealthy. Every minister I have known has not been nor did that ever seem to be their focus. Most mainline protestant ministers I have known were not poor nor anywhere close to being rich. The parish paid them a run of the mill salary and gave them a place to live. They worked 24/7 serving the needs of the congregation. As a rule of thumb, any minister who is getting wealthy off being a minister should be suspect.

[mookie2001]

yours is wrong
naturally
I was speaking in general terms
and I'm correct
generally

[spurjur]

I didnt curse her to hell

im saying that that fucking church is a business and a joke of a church

You're passing judgement by saying that the word is being prostituded or whatever. Its obvious you have a problem with that church or ministry for some reason.

[Extra Stout]

Going by her behavior, she's spoiled with a skewed sense of entitlement that seems to come with money and fame...not unlike the Hollywood Divas I've heard so much about in Cosmo. That alone puts her more "in" with the Democratic crowd.

She could go either way, IMO. :spin
She's part of the rich Southern white conversative evangelical Christian female wing of the Democratic Party. It's a key constituency.

[spurjur]

what the hell are you talking about?
we're DISCUSSING this








....on a message board?

True, but calling this person or that person this and the other isn't right. Especially when none of the skeletons in your closet have been let out.

[Mr. Defense]

I don't believe that one should become a pastor because they want to get wealthy. Every minister I have known has not been nor did that ever seem to be their focus. Most mainline protestant ministers I have known were not poor nor anywhere close to being rich. The parish paid them a run of the mill salary and gave them a place to live. They worked 24/7 serving the needs of the congregation. As a rule of thumb, any minister who is getting wealthy off being a minister should be suspect.


i agree with your point Marcus. but any Good Pastuer is definitely going to want the church he is pasteuring to Grow and yeah, be profitable. Because with that profit, they can ONE, help those in NEED, and TWO, make the church bigger to accomodate more people. :tu

as for a pasteurs personal pocketbook?

i will not judge. too each their own. such is free will. we all make our own choices and we all must face the consequences for our actions. Good or Bad.

[SpursWoman]

We may have not rushed a cockpit or caused a two hour delay at an airport, but we've fallen short.


My weakness for impulse purchases doesn't make her any less of a spoiled, selfish primadonna. If someone would like to start a thread on the sin of impulse buying, I'll be happy to repent. :lol

[Mr. Defense]

yours is wrong
naturally
I was speaking in general terms
and I'm correct
generally


wrong or right was not the question sir.

Racist is racist.

[mookie2001]

alright can I paint you a better picture of the people i'm talking about sac

not just rich like jim and tlong
really fucking rich
white (this is not racist this is a fact)
(christian) they run a "church"
women (shes has no dick)
powerful (preacher of the biggest church in america. who is on tv everyday, and on the cover of magazines

[ChumpDumper]

Why did we start talking about milk all the sudden?

[Mr. Defense]

alright can I paint you a better picture of the people i'm talking about sac

not just rich like jim and tlong
really fucking rich
white (this is not racist this is a fact)
(christian) they run a "church"
women (shes has no dick)
powerful (preacher of the biggest church in america. who is on tv everyday, and on the cover of magazines


so i take it you have resentment for such individuals.

why?

are they stopping YOU from your dreams?

[spurjur]

My weakness for impulse purchases doesn't make her any less of a spoiled, selfish primadonna. If someone would like to start a thread on the sin of impulse buying, I'll be happy to repent. :lol

Nice joke. A better joke is you trying to say you have never acted wrong towards anyone or anything in your life. That's some funny stuff. :lmao

[Mr. Defense]

alright spurjur. i believe your point has been made. I think we are all aware that ALL of our shit stinks. :tu

[mookie2001]

yeah mrs joel olsteen is my problem
sac because youre christian, sober, and tejano, doesnt mean you speak for everyone of the three

[Extra Stout]

I don't believe that one should become a pastor because they want to get wealthy. Every minister I have known has not been nor did that ever seem to be their focus... As a rule of thumb, any minister who is getting wealthy off being a minister should be suspect.
Osteen did not originally get rich off his ministry. He originally got rich through the business of television. He then became pastor of the church and transformed it into a media business.

[Mr. Defense]

yeah mrs joel olsteen is my problem
sac because youre christian, sober, and tejano, doesnt mean you speak for everyone of the three


i speak for myself only. :tu

[Marcus Bryant]

There's a weird melding between the religious and the political going on. It's like the pulpit has taken up the cause of economic growth while the government is now concerned with advancing the faith.

Who wants to hear what a poor carpenter once had to say? Who wants to believe that you should take your focus away from your material desires? This is America, after all!

[mookie2001]

Olsteen prostitutes the word, pat robertson and others like him are the definition of such pimps

[spurjur]

yeah mrs joel olsteen is my problem
sac because youre christian, sober, and tejano, doesnt mean you speak for everyone of the three

Very mature. I'll really take you serious now.

[hussker]

That's another item that crossed my mind. I guess he's tending to the flock in Vail....

Where Would Jesus Ski?

[E20]

So what is this arguement about?

[mookie2001]

:depressed :oops :depressed :oops :depressed :oops :depressed :oops :oops :depressed :oops dont judge me spurjer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Extra Stout]

i agree with your point Marcus. but any Good Pastuer is definitely going to want the church he is pasteuring to Grow and yeah, be profitable. Because with that profit, they can ONE, help those in NEED, and TWO, make the church bigger to accomodate more people. :tu
The easiest way to grow a church and rake in a lot of money is to tell people what they want to hear and to make it entertaining.

[Marcus Bryant]

Osteen did not originally get rich off his ministry. He originally got rich through the business of television. He then became pastor of the church and transformed it into a media business.

Well, Osteen worked in his pop's television ministry bidness and then took over when pop passed on.

[spurjur]

:depressed :oops :depressed :oops :depressed :oops :depressed :oops :oops :depressed :oops dont judge me spurjer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah

[mookie2001]

ive read through this thread

I

somewhat

agree with


marcus



...