An Oldie but a Goodie

[Guru of Nothing]

Some Rocket yahoo, in a football forum, made the ol' David is Hakeem's bitch argument (based soley upon the 1995 WCF).

I'm about to sack out, but could I please get some links to previous discussions on this well worn topic here, especially ones dripping with arguments from Whottt; especially interested in stats comparing Hakeem and David ... Whottt, I will quote you heavily, when I get around to it, unless you want to state (y)our case again over at FBG.

Thanks in advance

[E20]

It's a tough call. But, I'd give the closest edge to Hakeem.

Hakeems' History:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/olajuwon_bio.html

Hakeems' Stats:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/olajuwon_stats.html

Daves' History:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/robinson_bio.html

Daves' Stats:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/robinson_stats.html

I'd love to see head to head matchups of regular season games aswell as playoff ones.

[E20]

Here is the 1995 WCF ones. :lol

David Robinson in series: 23.8 points 11.3 rebounds 2.7 assists 1.5 steals
Hakeem Olajuwon in series: 35.3 points 12.5 rebounds 5.0 assists 4.1 blocks 1.3 steals


Game 1: Olajuwon: 27 pts - Robinson 21 pts
Game 2: Olajuwon: 41 pts - Robinson 32 pts
Game 3: Olajuwon: 43 pts - Robinson 29 pts
Game 4: Olajuwon: 20 pts - Robinson 20 pts
Game 5: Olajuwon: 42 pts - Robinson 22 pts
Game 6: Olajuwon: 39 pts - Robinson 19 pts

Hakeem P3WND Shaq.

[E20]

http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/robinsonfaq.htm
(They have a Hakeem page aswell: http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/hakeemfaq.htm)

Hakeem v. Robinson I: The 1995 Playoffs
1994-95 was the first time that the Spurs had the best record in the conference. They seemed like they were on the express into the Finals before running into the crazy Rockets. Hakeem outplayed Robinson in that series and it is traditional lore that Hakeem was inspired by watching Robinson be presented with the MVP Trophy in front of him. Rocket announcer Bill Worrell described the scene thusly:

"They gave David his award on the floor right before the game started. When [Robinson] got the trophy, he said it was such an honor to receive an award that so many other great centers had won. He didn't name Hakeem. I always thought that was David's biggest mistake in the series."

In other words, Hakeem went out and schooled him over the perceived slight. "Schooled" isn't exactly accurate. Hakeem averaged an awesome 35.3 ppg in the series but Robinson, himself, almost average 30 ppg. The even more prominent fact was that a team led by Hakeem beat a team led by Robinson. This is a simplistic syllogism. Fact is, Robinson was a incredible player and six games in 1995 is not necessarily a fair basis of comparison. (Incredibly, this series was the only time that Robinson faced Hakeem in the playoffs).


Hakeem v. Robinson II: Who was Better?

Okay, the 1995 Playoffs was only six games, so who was better? The numbers are very close:

Robinson 21.1 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.5 apg, .518% FG (14 Seasons)

Olajuwon 21.8 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, .512% FG (18 Seasons)

Granted that is a very cursory look at the numbers favors Hakeem. He put up slightly better stats in a longer period of time. Of course, it is difficult to penalize Robinson for missing two years serving in the Navy but hey it was his decision. But as we said, this is only raw numbers. When we look at some analytical stats, Robinson has the edge. His career efficiency is slightly higher than Hakeems at 29.0 versus 28.0. Further, if you look at John Hollinger's PER stats, you see that Robinson had higher numbers than Hakeem head-to-head every year but one (excluding the injury years later in their careers). In fact, these numbers rate Robinson as the best player in the NBA three times. Overall rating formulas have their flaws but they tend not to miss the best players in the league. But the real problem is that the formula debate, like the raw career total debate is so close that it determines nothing. So, let's compare intangibles:

1. Hakeem has two rings as a featured player, Robinson has two only as a complementary player

2. Hakeem has a better post game then Robinson

3. Hakeem outplayed Robinson head-to-head in their one playoff match up


These are the reasons that people cite as reasons why it is a foregone conclusion that Hakeem was better than Robinson. These reasons are overstated and the two are actually almost a dead heat. Still, I think that they are just enough to tip the scales in Hakeem's favor.

[CharlieMac]

1. Hakeem has two rings as a featured player, Robinson has two only as a complementary player

That just makes sense.

[E20]

I'm a Spurs homer and it's the Admiral, but Dream was still pretty raw.

I say they're both great, successful and raw ass players.

They are even, their career stats and accomplishments mirror each other.

[dknights411]

Should we compare Hakeem to Timmy then? :spin

[ZStomp]

Who cares what others say??

Who cares who was better?

Go Spurs Go

[MI21]

Definatly search for some of Whottt's old posts, they are gold.

[Extra Stout]

Hakeem was better than David.

Tim is better than either one.

[kskonn]

Hakeem was better than David.

Tim is better than either one.

I said the exact same thing to a guy at a christmas party last week. He was trying to tell me that Tim was not very good. His only reason that Hakeem was better than tim was that "he swished the ball when he shot and Tim banks it off of the back board." At that point I walked away.

[Guru of Nothing]

Thanks for the links E20. I decided to let the argument die over yonder. Much appreciated.

[Brodels]

See the battle blog where I owned you but the judges were too homerific to look at it objectively.

:smokin

[Rummpd]

I was at game in Houston where Robinson (in a year they had Rodman he was clowning on the sidelines) had 53 on Hakeeem.

Both were great players but Hakeem had a much stronger team around him most of the career. To me it is pretty much a wash between these two.

[Brutalis]

David vrs Hakeem is like.. grape kool-aid vrs cherry. They both ROCK!

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

kool - aid is good

[dknights411]

David vrs Hakeem is like.. grape kool-aid vrs cherry. They both ROCK!

Amen! :smokin

[Obstructed_View]

Hakeem was a better basketball player. David was a better athlete. Hakeem won. David didn't. If you swapped them (pre-Duncan) Robinson probably would have two rings and Hakeem none, even though I hate the argument that Robinson didn't have any talent around him, which is ludicrous.

Oh yeah. Most Rockets fans are knuckle draggers that repeat shit other people say and only follow the team when they are winning.