Chauncey for MVP

[Pistons < Spurs]

It may be way to early, but I find myself getting caught up in adoration of the way Chauncey is playing so far this year. He has stepped up his scoring, fg% , 3fg%, FT% and assists while lowering his turnovers aswell. Under Flip he is the one making the decisions as opposed to LB and Carlisle controlling coaching style where they called nearly every play.

He has the clutch abilities. He defends. He so rarely does anything wrong.

Tonight against Orlando he had;
37 points 9 assists 2 rebounds 1 TO shot 9-15 (4-6 from 3) and 15-17 from the line

I still say it's a damn shame that he's never been an All-Star. This year he should be a lock (although it won't be as a starter). But I truly he should be noted as a favorite for the league MVP....so far.

The only person I might put above him is Nash, who is getting it done w/out Amare.

What do you all think? Am I looking at it through my Pistons colored glasses? or do you agree?

[ahb]

I liked the way he started the season, but he's dominated the ball too much for my taste lately. He seems singularly determined to be the hero, but outside-in play to that extent won't win in the long run.

(6 2-point attempts for Sheed and Dice in an entire game? Are you kidding me?)

But, to your question... no. Only a few guards in NBA history have been dominant enough in my opinion to be considered MVPs, and he's not one of them.

[Pistons < Spurs]

(6 2-point attempts for Sheed and Dice in an entire game? Are you kidding me?)




I too think Sheed and Dice need to shoot more....but when your 2 guards combine for 62 points while shooting 59.3%, I say keep doing what works.

And Sheed got a little too 3 happy tonight going 1-7....yuckkkkk

[ahb]

It got the win tonight. Whatever works, I guess.

But I find it hard to blame Sheed for taking those 3s - it's not like the players just wander around aimlessly. He doesn't call the plays, and even if the high pick-and-roll was just a last resort because of Chauncey's overdribbling, he did get himself wide-open and set. Those are shots he normally makes at a very high percentage.

[baseline bum]

To me LeBron is winning this MVP race by a mile. The numbers he is putting up are absolutely ridiculous. 30/6/5.6 on 49.7% shooting and his team looks great. Chauncey is having a career year, but no way is he having a better year than Elton Brand, nor even Duncan nor Garnett. I'd take him over Nash in a heartbeat though, since he plays great D. Billups is obviously the best point guard in the game right now.

[ahb]

James's numbers aren't that much better than, say, Paul Pierce's, never mind that Piece actually plays (some) defense. And what if the Cavs miss the playoffs again? Kobe's won only 3 fewer games despite having a much worse supporting cast

I don't see how Elton Brand can be an MVP, since he's only refined his own game slightly and yet his team is winning much more than it did before. My leading candidates would be Duncan, Nowitzki, Bryant, Garnett, James, Iverson, Arenas, Wade...

[baseline bum]

Brand looks like a monster this year, and his numbers are way up across the boards. He's shooting 53% as opposed to 50% last year, 24.8ppg as opposed to 20ppg last season, 2.59 blocks as opposed to 2.09, 10.7 rebounds as opposed to 9.5 while turning the ball over and fouling at a slightly lower rate than last season.

I didn't mention Pierce since I haven't seen him this year, and since his team is having a horrible season. Numbers on bad teams have never impressed me. I remember when Antoine Carr was one of the league's top scorers in Sacramento, yet he couldn't crack the Spurs starting lineup immediately after.

Kobe still has Odom, who was a monster when healthy as a Clipper and member of the Heat. Arenas gets no love from me since his team sucks. Garnett's kind of borderline there, but I give him the benefit of the doubt since there is no other Timberwolves player I have an ounce of respect for and since he's been playing at a consistent hall-of-fame level since 1999. I think Dirk's not as good as he was last season, but he's def gotta be in the mix in the top 5.

AI's looked amazing this season, but I think the MVP should be reserved for teams that have at least a realistic shot at going to a conference finals, with the exception of KG who has earned the benefit of the doubt IMO as I said before.

Brand has looked way better than Duncan in the games I've seen this year. A healthy Duncan should change that though.

[ahb]

Brand has improved his numbers, and I'd agree that he's looked better than Duncan in many games this year, but I don't think that means enough to win 13% more games than last season, without Maggette. In my opinion, the development of Kaman and the consistency of Cassell and Mobley improved the Clippers more than Brand did. I just don't agree with the 'best player on a good team' premise that has Chauncey Billups allegedly a contender; the player has to be able to carry his team on his own to be truly Most Valuable.

Which means that players like Arenas, Bryant, Iverson, James, Pierce, and so forth who are carrying mediocre teams (the Cavs are a lottery team until proven otherwise, but are somewhat more talented than the Lakers, Wizards, etc.) to playoff contention are somewhat more valuable than the leader of a championship contender, because contenders have rosters stacked enough to allow the team to be competitive even if their best player has a bad game.

But I suspect you're right, and that whether or not he's the most valuable of the bunch in my opinion, LeBron will probably get the award.

[woodseed]

I agree that it's a damn shame that he's never been an All-Star. I love Chauncey. I'd pick him over any other point gaurd in the NBA now.

[z0sa]

Billups is good... but not that good.

[Sense]

Billups is no MVP....

We've gone over this..

There's no MVP in a team that needs every starter to win.

[jochhejaam]

Billups is good... but not that good.
Detroit has too much balance to have an MVP on the team. Best starting 5 means everyone contributes and they don't rely on any one player to score. This allows the players to post solid stats with some knockout games but when the team is as balanced as Detroits it won't allow any one player to have MVP stats over the entire season.

It's better to have several options than one go to guy especially in crunch time at the end of games.

I'm looking for a team MVP award in the form of a championship. :)

[ducks]

it is not how great you play him the first half it is how great you play after the allstar break
just ask garnet because kg was playing better then duncan early then duncan turned it on and won the mvp

[Oh, Gee!!]

Let the fools have their damn MVP trophy.

[JamStone]

With the arguments on this thread, that means that with the development of Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker and the value of Bruce Bowen as a perimeter defender and the valuable additions of Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel, Tim Duncan should not be considered an MVP candidate.

Chauncey had 37 pts, 9 asts, and 1 turnover last night against the Magic in a 9 point win. How is that not carrying his team? When Chauncey has had poor games, the Pistons struggle. When he plays well, the Pistons are a great team.

I can agree that on a balanced, great team like the Pistons, it's harder to identify one player as an MVP candidate. But, each of you are making your own personal definition of what an MVP should be. What is more impressive really? A player who can carry a lottery caliber team into a playoff contender or a player who carries a great team into championship level? What is really more valuable?

Those people who understand why Steve Nash won the league MVP last year should understand and support Chauncey Billups as a "CANDIDATE." No, he probably won't win it. And, he probably does not deserve it over players like LeBron James, Elton Brand, or Allen Iverson. But, you should not argue that he does not at least deserve to be a candidate, deserve to be in the conversation based on what he has done this season so far.

19.6 ppg, 8.4 apg, best ast-to-to ratio, 93% from the free throw line (top 3), 44.4% from 3 pt range (top 10), less than 2 TOs a game (for as much as he handles the ball, ridiculous), and he is the captain and leader of a team that is 25-4.

There's a reason why the scoring champion doesn't always win the league MVP. There's a reason why there is a DPOY trophy.

The "MVP" does not strictly mean the "player whose team really sucks without that player" trophy or else Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, and Allen Iverson should win every year. Magic Johnson had a great team around him when he won it in 1986-87 and 1988-89 (Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Scott). The Boston Celtics were an extremely balanced team when Larry Bird won the trophy in 1983-86 (Parish, DJ, McHale, Walton). You could argue that those teams needed all those other guys to win.

But, ever since Michael Jordan, fans in particular have been fixated on players who mean EVERYTHING to their team. An "MVP" had to lead his team in scoring and asists or rebounds. They had to average near 30 ppg. They had to be considered a superstar. It's a shame that more people don't realize that the MVP award should reflect and honor one aspect above all ... winning. I would give the league MVP to Tim Duncan almost every year for what he does for his team in terms of helping them win games. Even if his stats drop this year because there is more balance, he deserves to be made mentioned, as always.

Just because Chauncey has not been a perennial all star or have the flashy game or jaw-dropping athleticism that gets ESPN highlights every night, you cannot deny how his game is a direct catalyst as to how well the Pistons are playing. One could argue that Ben Wallace is more important to the Pistons, or that Rasheed Wallace is the better talent. But, from a Pistons fan perspective, most will tell you that Chauncey is the barometer for when the Pistons are playing their best basketball. He is the brain, the key, the driver, the reason. He is as valuable to the Pistons as the players mentioned in the MVP race are to their respective teams. Replace Chauncey with Carlos Arroyo, the Pistons are nowhere near the top of the Eastern Conference, much less the league. Replace Chauncey with Jason Kidd even, and the Pistons do not start off 25-4. Billups' clutch shooting and 3 pt accuracy have been just as vital as his tempo control and distribution of the basketball. Replace Chauncey with Allen Iverson and Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton do not get involved in the offense nearly as much, and the Pistons are not as good. Replace Chauncey with Steve Nash and the Pistons are not nearly as effective in the halfcourt set and guards like Baron Davis and Steve Francis have career games because of Nash's lack of strength and lack of defense. Chauncey provides much more to the Pistons than people even realize. But, because of the balance of the Pistons, they discredit how actually phenomenal his season has been so far. Now, he may not keep up at this pace. His asists may go down, or he may start getting more turnovers, or his 3 pt shot may drop. But, based on the season so far, to dismiss Chauncey Billups as a viable MVP candidate is naive and shows a lack of understanding of how important Billups really has been to the great start the Pistons have had.

Review. Re-evaluate. Re-assess. Reconsider.

Billups' numbers have been very impressive. But, that only tells half the story of why he's so good.

[ducks]

seemed to me the pistons stuggled all night with a team that will stuggle to make the playoffs

[1Parker1]

I think Chauncey deserves to be in consideration for MVP, doesn't mean I think he'll get it. It's true that he's having a great year and that he should be a lock in for All Star (very deserved).

My vote right now would go to Steve Nash, simply because he's managed to put up the same numbers as last year and give his team a winning record, despite the fact that their #1 player is out and their 2 main starters from last year were traded away. He's doing a heck of a job. I didn't really think he deserved to win MVP last year, because I thought that Amare, Marion, JJ, and QR were making him look better than he was. But, he's really proven himself this season.

Other contenders: Dirk, Lebron, Wade, Iverson. Tim has a shot, although I don't think he'll get it.

It's really a toss up this year...there's really not one single player who stands out like in years past. All these top MVP contenders are playing on good teams where they also have other great players surrounding/helping them.

But, if Chauncey gets it, I wouldn't mind. I think he's deserving.

[Spurminator]

Chauncey is absolutely a candidate. Let's not forget that the Pistons are not exactly loaded with offensive talent.

[1Parker1]

^^:lol You don't think the Pistons are loaded with offensive talent? Rasheed, Tayshuan, Billups, Hamilton, McDyess can all drop 20 on your team on a given night....what makes them good this season is that their offense has jumped incredibly high, while their defense is still there as well!

[JamStone]

seemed to me the pistons stuggled all night with a team that will stuggle to make the playoffs


Grant Hill makes that Orlando team exponentially better. The Magic had won three games in a row before playing Detroit. And, they played very well on offense last night. Dwight Howard was just difficult to control last night. So, yes, the Pistons struggled most of the night against a team that will struggle to make the playoffs ...

So, which is worse? Struggling against a team that will struggle to make the playoffs, but still finding a way to win OR LOSING to a team that won't make the playoffs like the Altanta Hawks or New Orleans Hornets or Chicago Bulls?

:spin :spin :spin

[1Parker1]

^:lol:lol Ducks, you walked right into that ownage.

[Spurminator]

^^:lol You don't think the Pistons are loaded with offensive talent? Rasheed, Tayshuan, Billups, Hamilton, McDyess can all drop 20 on your team on a given night....what makes them good this season is that their offense has jumped incredibly high, while their defense is still there as well!

Not really... There's a consistent level of talent there, and all of them except Ben are above average, but Chauncey is clearly the head of the snake and I don't think any of them would have the success they have without him feeding them the ball.

They could score 20, sure, but it would be a much uglier 20.

[1Parker1]

^I don't agree with that. You're making Chauncey out to be the kind of pure PG like Nash or Kidd who constantly feeds the ball to the open man, etc.

You said that the Pistons aren't loaded with offensive talent. Yet, just because Chauncey "feeds" the ball to the other players...it's still up to them to make the shot. And if he wasn't surrounded by good offensive players who could give you 20 a night, they wouldn't be making those shots...

I'm not arguing with you about the importance of Chauncey to the team, I'm arguing with your statement that the Pistons aren't loaded with offensive talent.

[Spurminator]

I think he's every bit as pure as Nash or Kidd, but with a more dangerous shot. Rip, Tayshaun and Sheed aren't the kind of players you can hand the ball to on the outside and rely on them to create their own shots. Part of Chauncey's value is that he you have to keep him from scoring on you, so it breaks down your defense and leaves Rip or Rasheed open for a shot.

[Sense]

Check the stats...

the Pistons do worse when Hamilton is not on his average game rather than Billups.

Billups is doing nothing differently than other seasons, just his numbers are up statistacly, making him more of an allstar than anything.

The Pistons have always been good, but it seems that the whole team seems way more mature than previous years.. (maybe due to their loss in the finals)but it's making them win more games.

Nothing to do with Billups.

[FreshPrince22]

Check the stats...

the Pistons do worse when Hamilton is not on his average game rather than Billups.

Billups is doing nothing differently than other seasons, just his numbers are up statistacly, making him more of an allstar than anything.

The Pistons have always been good, but it seems that the whole team seems way more mature than previous years.. (maybe due to their loss in the finals)but it's making them win more games.

Nothing to do with Billups.

You're clueless.

[JamStone]

Check the stats? What stats would those be?

In each of the Pistons losses, Chauncey had very poor games.

Check what stats?

How about: Watch the games ...


"The Pistons have always been good"???

In 2000-01, the Pistons won 32 games and did not make the playoffs. Joe Dumars overhauled the roster over the following two seasons until they became an elite team in the 2003-04 season. And in the late 19902 in the Grant Hill era, the Pistons were never really a "good" team. After the Bad Boy era, the Pistons didn't even win a playoff series until the 2001-02 season. They were not "always" good. It took additions like Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton in the summer of 2002 for the Pistons to even start to be considered even "threats" in the Eastern Conference.

And, if you really think the current Pistons team's success has "[n]othing to do with Billups," you probably either don't know much about basketball or you don't follow Detroit Pistons basketball very much, because that is just flat out wrong.

You should really do some homework before throwing out seemingly factual conclusions.

[jochhejaam]

Loss @ Dallas
Rip 18pts 6-15 fg's
Chauncey 12pts 3-7 fg's


Loss to Washington
Rip 11pts 4-15 fg's
Chauncey 21pts 4-17 fg's


Loss @ Utah
Rip 16pts 3-13 fg's
Chauncey 14pts 3-13 fg's

Loss @ Cleveland
Rip 21pts 7-17 fg's
Chauncey 14pts 2-11 fg's

Total 4 losses
Rip 16.5 pts 20-60 fg's 33%
Chauncey 15.3 pts 12-48 fg's 25%

Chauncey averages 8.4 assists and 1.9 turnovers per game
Chauncey averaged 4.5 assists and 2.5 turnovers in losses

Chauncey's FG% and assists way down in losses

Both played poorly in losses (surprise) but Chauncey was decidedly worse than Rip in losses which would seem to support the hypothesis that the Pistons are worse with Chaucey off his game than with Rip off his.

[Rummpd]

The MVP is each year he is healthy is Duncan. He draws double and triple teams yet still leads the league in double doubles. He has his team at 25-7 with Manu missing many games.

Marbury would be a fair choice, but he is really having a better PG year than Nash for instance?

[boutons_]

"Marbury would be a fair choice"

He's a fucking loser. He'll never sniff an MVP or ring. Maybe EC player of the week, nothing more.

[1Parker1]

Tony Parker has more of a chance at MVP than Marubury! His team has the worst record in the league...how do you figure he is a "fair choice" Unless you're talking about something other than MVP...

[ABDENOUR POWER]

The MVP is each year he is healthy is Duncan. He draws double and triple teams yet still leads the league in double doubles. He has his team at 25-7 with Manu missing many games.

Sorry, but I disagree. Tim Duncan is an EXCELLENT player, but I think that there are others who are better. I don't know, maybe its just that I mostly see him going against Rasheed.


Marbury would be a fair choice

No.




About Billups .... he's having a great year and deserves to go to the All-Star game, but come on ... MVP? Do you seriously believe that he's better than AI, Garnett, LeBron, Kobe, etc? Chauncey has been extremely underrated in the past, and he's a great player. But he's no MVP. He might be good enough to be listed as a "candidate", but I simply don't think he's good enough to win it.

[theMUHMEshow]

I think you guys are all fucking nuts.

AI without a doubt is my MVP every year. I still shake my head at some of the Idiots that have been on that team in the past and he got them into the playoffs. Ivo is amazing. He is the MVP every damn year.

[Brutalis]

Sure.

He deserves to be nominated.

But even Duncan could be argued just as much at this point. Spurs haven't been healthy all year and are still right behind Detroit and the real fans don't pull the injury card but this is like the boy who cried wolf. And all those KG for MVP noobs that don't exsist anymore. I'm not going to defend myself, this is just what I think.

But give him consideration, sure.

[z0sa]

I agree with the post above. Chauncey just has better stats - he really hasn't changed his game much or improved decisively. Its just the fact the whole team is playing better. I don't see why he should suddenly be factored in as a leading MVP candidate when LBJ is leading his team every night in more than just stats, Duncan has brought us right up behind the Pistons despite injury to himself, Ginobili, Barry, Finley etc; Brand has shown much improvement and a sense of leadership over the Clips, etc. Detroit is the same team, just winning more games.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Unless TD is MVP every year, POP is COY every season, Coyote is best mascot every year, Bowen is Defensive POY, and ESPN devotes 12 hours daily to Spurs coverage, we will never be satisfied.