Girls Expelled Over Confederate Flag Purses

[Nbadan]

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/wfaa/01-06/0106_purse200.jpg



Two North Texas high school students who were kicked out of class for displaying rebel flags vow to take their fight to court. They said they are proud of their heritage, but Burleson High School education officials maintain the Confederate symbol is offensive.

<snip>
"Principal comes up and says, 'You've got to get rid of your purse... it's racist,'" Thomas said.

Burleson ISD spokesman Richard Crummel said it's simply a matter of violating the school's dress code. "We don't want students to wear anything that might cause a disruption, and that symbol has done that in the past," Crummel said.

<snip>
"I'm hiring a lawyer," Thomas said. "I'm going all the way with it, because I think it's wrong."

Dallas News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010706dnmetrebelpurse.4f64053b.html)

Ashley and Aubrie McAllum both received purses patterened after the Confederate battle flag from their parents for Christmas. Both girls decided to take their presents to school.....

Ashley was sent home three times this week. "I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said. "I want to keep going to school and get my education, but this is my life. I was born and raised in the South. Why is the flag so bad?"

Burleson High School, with a 2,200 student enrollment, is about 90 percent white, 8 or 9 percent Hispanic. There are very few African Americans.

[ChumpDumper]

"I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do"Leave the purse at home, cracka.

[Spurminator]

Well, they weren't expelled... they were sent home.


"I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said.

I know, it's a hopeless situation....

[Oh, Gee!!]

Ashley was sent home three times this week. "I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said. "I want to keep going to school and get my education, but this is my life.

stupid kids

[Extra Stout]

That flag is a symbol of treason.

[Mixability]

morons

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Ok...so my grandfather was drafted by the Nazi army and forced to fight for Hitler...does that mean my little girl (when she was actually little...jesus I'm old) should have had a swaztika purse?

What would she say..."it's heritage not hate"?

[Peter]

So much for freedom of speech.

[E20]

Damn, you don't know why it's offensive damn........moron kids. KKK.........

[boutons_]

"freedom of speech"

... is actually not the right to express anything about anything anywhere.
Schools are not democracies, nor are corps, the military, etc.

[E20]

Is treason protected under by FOS.

[chode_regulator]

at that time of the US slavery was legal and an accepted way of life. so the people of the south rose up against what they thought was wrong doings. they decided they didnt want to be a prt of the US anymore and wanted thier own country.
it would eb the same way as if the govt all of a sudden came out and said, ok everyone who is black report to you city hall, youre all slaves again.
the confederacy was a group of states and individuals fighting for their way of life and what they believed in. just bc we now feel that slavery is wrong doesnt mean that back then they did.
let them wear the damn purses, if they start showing signs of racism, and a fucking flag is not, then start punishing them.
im so sick and tired of how fucking pansified america is becoming. dont make anyone made or offend them bc they might cry. fuck that, step up, be aman and stop crying everytime something doesnt go your way. maybe if we didnt raise our kids to be pussies we would have won the war in iraq by now.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, they should also use the N word because they did that all the time back then. Bring back lynchings, too. Good times. I don't see why everyone gets so fussy about the Klan -- they were just trying to keep their way of life, right?

[batman2883]

why are white people so fuckin nuts

[ChumpDumper]

You're obviously overreacting man.

I mean, crosses are good, right?

Fire is good -- won't get far without fire....

Put them together and it's double good -- why folks buggin?

[Peter]

"freedom of speech"

... is actually not the right to express anything about anything anywhere.
Schools are not democracies, nor are corps, the military, etc.


So we lose our constitutional rights when we step on public property? Great wisdom, Chief.

[boutons_]

"So we lose our constitutional rights when we step on public property?"

Organizations have the right and power to define the rules of behavior, so, yes, becoming a member of those orgs very often means giving up rights like free speech. There are real and legal limits on student behavior defined by public schools.

Do you see any Generals camping out in front of dubya's ranch with Cindy Sheehan? or otherwise campaigning against dubya?

Do you see members of Hagee's mega "church" camping out in front of his facility protesting his+wife's $2M+ salaries, and still being allowed into church?

Great ignorance, dick.

[Trainwreck2100]

That flag is a symbol of treason.


Considering how no charges of treason were brought to anyone, that's an erronious statement.

Also this is stupid, how many people have been killed in the name of christianity? Let's start banning crosses on jewelry to. This is fucking stupid and this PC America crap is pissing me off.

[mookie2001]

are yall fucking retarded?









free speech has never been extended to schools
and im the biggest aclu nut on this bitch

the same reason I couldnt wear my danzig lucifuge shirt in 8th grade
but this actually makes sense
those stupid bitches would deserve to get beaten within an inch of their lives

if they want to wear it on main street fine
but you cant
in school






http://mclub.te.net.ua/images/alb/cover814_20976.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

those stupid bitches would deserve to get beaten within an inch of their lives




I agree, but they should get their ass kicked so they'll learn. They should have the right to get their ass kicked.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Im suprised none of the pro confedrate purses even responded to what i posted.... i dont see the difference in a swaztika and a confederate flag, do you?

[mookie2001]

well there is
but it doesnt matter

[chode_regulator]

I agree, but they should get their ass kicked so they'll learn. They should have the right to get their ass kicked.
yeah but these days if you get your ass kicked im sure the person who did the asskicking would get sued, the schools princicipal and vice principal would be sued, the city would be sued, the school district would be sued and so on and so forth.......
all im saying is they stood up for what they believed in and their way of life dumbasses.
the klan was about straight racism. and also the klan came about after slavery was made illegal. holy shit i hate stupid people.
you know what, people who wear baggy pants and shirts that hang down to their fucking ankles piss me off and offend me. i think they should be sent home.

[ChumpDumper]

you know what, people who wear baggy pants and shirts that hang down to their fucking ankles piss me off and offend me. i think they should be sent home.They often are.

Go figure.

[chode_regulator]

:rolleyes

[JoeChalupa]

Just more proof that it begins at home with the parents.

[xrayzebra]

Im suprised none of the pro confedrate purses even responded to what i posted.... i dont see the difference in a swaztika and a confederate flag, do you?

You wouldn't. But believe me there is. You might want to read a little
bit about history before making statements such as you have.

[Extra Stout]

Considering how no charges of treason were brought to anyone, that's an erronious statement.

Also this is stupid, how many people have been killed in the name of christianity? Let's start banning crosses on jewelry to. This is fucking stupid and this PC America crap is pissing me off.
Flying the Confederate flag is just as bad as burning the American flag.

[Extra Stout]

You wouldn't. But believe me there is. You might want to read a little
bit about history before making statements such as you have.
The Nazis developed their terror tactics by studying the Ku Klux Klan of the 1870's.

The Klan is a big fan of the traitor flag.

[Extra Stout]

the klan was about straight racism. and also the klan came about after slavery was made illegal. holy shit i hate stupid people.
The Klan was very successful in the 1870's. They wanted to make sure the 14th & 15th Amendments were not enforced, and end Reconstruction, and they instigated a relentless terror campaign to make that happen. They won, Reconstruction ended, Jim Crow went into effect, and those Amendments were not enforced for nearly a century.

They, at least in their 19th century form, were one of the most successful terrorist groups in history, all for the cause of Southern white nationalism.

So basically, those girls are pro-terrorism.

[Extra Stout]

Im suprised none of the pro confedrate purses even responded to what i posted.... i dont see the difference in a swaztika and a confederate flag, do you?
The Nazi swastika was a symbol of a particular government.

The Confederate St. Andrew's cross is a nationalist symbol.

So they're not quite the same.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

^ generally speaking many if not most of the people who brandish a confederate government consider the confederacy a particular government... and for all intents and purposes it was.

My question being what is the difference between the "heritage not hate" when applied to nazism versus support of the confederacy?

[Trainwreck2100]

Flying the Confederate flag is just as bad as burning the American flag.


But just as legal

[mookie2001]

naturally
im all for flying and burning anything you want
its just funny that current RRwing conservatives are so quick to call people antiamerican and side the left with terrorists
but a rebel flag is history...

[Dos]

isn't the rebel flag one of texas six flags..?

[JoeChalupa]

A few years back the wife and I were taking the kids to a festival up in the hill country and as we were walking up to the entrance we noticed a big confederate flag waving...needless to say we turned around and left.

[jochhejaam]

"I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said. "I want to keep going to school and get my education,..."
She's in a quandry over whether to get an education or wear the purse? If she feels that strongly about it she both go to school and fight for the right to wear the purse...I'd say the girl's definitely in need of an education.

http://www.dixietraditions.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/confederate_flag_2handle_purse_full.jpg
Besides the racial controversy it doesn't even look good.





http://cofcc.org/cutenews/data/upimages/ConfederateDress2.jpg

^^This girl was banned from a prom for wearing a "confederate" dress.

GIRL BANNED FROM HIGH SCHOOL PROM
OVER CONFEDERATE DRESS!



SCV supports Jaqueline Duty, Lawsuit to be filed in Federal court in Lexington, KY

Press Release - December 17, 2004 - For Immediate Release

This past May Jacqueline Duty, an attractive honor student in Russell, Kentucky, prepared to attend prom night wearing a special dress she had designed herself. It was a classically cut strapless sheath, ankle-length with a shallow slit on one side, and sewn completely out of beaded sequins. And it tastefully incorporated a symbol of her Southern heritage; a Confederate Battle Flag turned upwards so that the starry blue arms of the St. Andrew’s Cross appeared to lay across the dress as a sash would.

What was supposed to be a most special night turned to horror, though, as her civil rights were grossly violated by the school principal, who prevented Jacqueline from even getting out of her car, yelled at her, threatened her and had police force her away simply for expressing pride in her Southern heritage.

“ ‘Justice and equality for all’ includes Southerners”, said Don Shelton, spokesman for the Kentucky Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans. “The support we provided for Castorina v. Madison County School Board helped make that point abundantly clear with the ruling made by the federal 6th circuit court. The support we’re providing for Jacqueline Duty should convince school systems that civil rights for Southern students is still a serious issue.”

The Kentucky Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans is offended by school administrators who think that Southern students don’t have the same constitutional rights as others. The SCV is aware of a number of school situations in Kentucky where the civil rights of Southern students are being violated by fiat or policy. Our message to school administrators is to obey the law and respect the rights of all students or face the inevitable legal consequences. Our message to the students and parents is that help is available. For more information go to www.kyscv.org.

The suit will be filed 1 p.m. Monday, December 20th at the federal courthouse in Lexington, KY. There will be a press conference at that time on the courthouse steps.

http://www.halturnershow.com/GirlBannedFromPromOverConfederateDress.html

[boutons_]

"isn't the rebel flag one of texas six flags..?"

http://www.lsjunction.com/facts/6flags.htm

http://www.shsu.edu/~smm_www/FunStuff/Flags/F05F.html

[xrayzebra]

A few years back the wife and I were taking the kids to a festival up in the hill country and as we were walking up to the entrance we noticed a big confederate flag waving...needless to say we turned around and left.

That will teach them Joe, yeah, right. Guess you will never go to six flags
over Texas either.

[Dos]

looks like our own little UT has had it own problems with race as well... so the question is, does this make you a supporter of it as well..?

Flagship Texas university working to diversify enrollment
Strives to make 'more welcoming'
By Liz Austin, Associated Press | October 5, 2005
AUSTIN, Texas -- It's the little things that make Brandelyn Franks feel uncomfortable at the University of Texas at Austin.
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Things like walking into a class of 400 students and being the only black person. Or getting sideways glances from teachers and classmates when something racially controversial is said. Or seeing the same handful of people at every diversity forum at the school.
''I don't necessarily think that the university is very inviting, although they try to make like they are," said the 21-year-old history major, who is in her fourth of five years.
The school's president, Larry Faulkner, has heard those concerns, and last year called for sweeping changes to make the state's flagship university more welcoming for students of color.
Among the changes was the recent hiring of Greg Vincent as vice provost for inclusion and cross-cultural understanding. He is working to attract minority students and professors and make those already at the university feel welcome.
Vincent knows he could face a challenging task at the 50,000-student school, where fewer than one in five students is black or Hispanic, where vandals egged a Martin Luther King Jr. statue, and where fraternities in recent years held parties depicting blacks in Jim Crow stereotypes.
He blames a number of factors for the university's low minority enrollment, from a 1996 federal court ruling that struck down affirmative action in Texas for several years to what he calls the once-segregated university's ''legacy of exclusion."
''There are some communities in Texas where UT is not seen as a completely open door," Vincent said. ''I think we're doing some very tangible things to change that, but unfortunately that's still the case."
Among Vincent's first priorities is breaking down the real and the perceived barriers that discourage minorities from applying. He wants school officials to visit predominantly black and Hispanic high schools more often and to build relationships with the middle schools that feed into them.
''I want to make this a place of aspiration . . . a place where students want to come as opposed to a place where there's this feeling like maybe, 'Is this place for me?' " he said.
Sean Watkins, a 2004 graduate with a degree in African-American studies and history, said Vincent will have to convince black and Hispanic teens that the university is interested in giving them a world-class education, and not just in boosting minority enrollment.
''While they may have good intentions that their minority enrollment increases . . . they need to make sure that the way they communicate that is positive or proper," said Watkins, who ministers to students as a staff member for a campus religious group, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.
Take the statues of Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and other Confederate figures displayed on the South Mall, a prime gathering place for students.
''What does that say to your African-American students?" Watkins said. ''These men fought to make sure I would not be a student at this university, that I would remain a slave."
A panel of students, faculty, and staff that Faulkner assembled to study race relations at the university has recommended that the statues be moved to another location on campus.

[exstatic]

If these were Vagina Monologues purses, non of you fucking Neoconartists would be supporting their free speech rights.

[JoeChalupa]

That will teach them Joe, yeah, right. Guess you will never go to six flags
over Texas either.

Hey, it is your right to support the confederate flag.
I just choose not to.

Anyways Six Flags sucks.

Cedar Point in Ohio all the way baby!!!

[Dos]

If these were Vagina Monologues purses, non of you fucking Neoconartists would be supporting their free speech rights.

Oh, ACLU where are you!!!

ACLU Scolds Missouri High School for Censoring Gay Student (10/29/2004)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

WEBB CITY, MO - The American Civil Liberties Union has come to the defense of a high school junior who was sent home twice from school for wearing t-shirts bearing gay pride messages. The principal cited concerns that other students may be offended by the shirts worn by Brad Mathewson.

"This school allows its students to freely express their views on gay and lesbian rights - but only if they're on the anti-gay side of the issue," said Jolie Justus, a member of the legal panel for the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri, noting that bumperstickers in favor of Missouri's recently-passed anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment are ubiquitous in the school's hallways and parking lot. "This is a classic case of censorship. Brad Mathewson has the same Constitutional right to political speech and expression that the Supreme Court says all students have."

Mathewson was sent to the principal's office by his homeroom teacher on October 20 after she spotted his t-shirt. The shirt bears the name of the Gay-Straight Alliance at his old high school in Fayetteville, Arkansas (FHS Gay-Straight Alliance), a pink triangle, and the words, "Make a Difference!" When an assistant principal saw it, he told Mathewson to go home and change shirts because someone might be offended by it. Although Mathewson pointed out the anti-gay marriage stickers seen throughout the school, his concerns were ignored. Mathewson was again disciplined when he came to school on October 27 wearing a t-shirt featuring a rainbow and the phrase, "I'm gay and I'm proud."

"Even though nobody complained about my t-shirts, my school told me I couldn't wear them just because someone might get offended," said Mathewson, a junior at Webb City High School. "But every day I see students at my school with anti-gay stickers on their notebooks and sometimes on their shirts, and I find that offensive. I understand that they have a right to express what they think, but I have a right to do the same thing."

Mathewson and his mother met with school officials yesterday morning to express their concerns about the censorship. In the meeting, two assistant principals and the principal told Mathewson that they wouldn't allow him to wear shirts bearing gay pride messages because they feared it would cause controversy.

In a letter sent late yesterday to school, the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri pointed to the school's dress code policy, which only states that students' clothing must be "free of obscene or suggestive markings, advertisements of tobacco, alcoholic beverages, drugs, and/or other products deemed inappropriate by school officials." The ACLU demanded that officials remove any mention of the incident from Mathewson's records and allow him to wear the shirts without fear of punishment.

"You can't trample someone's First Amendment rights just because someone might take offense at what that person has to say," said Dick Kurtenbach, Executive Director of the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri. "Schools that unlawfully censor students' views should be given an F in civics."

The recently formed LGBT Task Force of the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri is working with the national ACLU Lesbian and Gay Rights Project in handling Mathewson's complaint.

[exstatic]

So, Dos, should he be allowed to wear the gay t-shirts, or not?

[Guru of Nothing]

Pardon me for not reading the entire thread, but as a resident of Mississippi, here's my "expert" opinion. The girl is a dumbass and will fuck anything, so long as it's the correct color.

I could be wrong.

[Brutalis]

I have a rebel flag window tint in on the backglass of my 73' longbed chevy 350. The truck is pepsi blue with Cooper Cobra's. Look's good.



Gimme a break. Has nothing to do with salavry. You guys are acting stupid. Like when they freaked at teenagers for shaking their hips to Elvis.

[Brutalis]

Wow typing fast has its cons.

[Brutalis]

Damn, you don't know why it's offensive damn........moron kids. KKK.........
Wow what a dumb comment.

I love the generalism placed on the Rebel Flag. Like if you have one you're a racist and you can't defend yourself or say different.

You guys in this thread speak of history.... Did you know the confederate states were divided on the slavery issue? Obviously not.

Why don't you take a fucking trip to the fucking historical museum in Arkansas and learn something.

[exstatic]

Did you know the confederate states were divided on the slavery issue? Obviously not.
:lol OK, smartguy, which confederate state(s) were anti-slavery?

[Brutalis]

:lol OK, smartguy, which confederate state(s) were anti-slavery?

Every state had slavery, let me make that clear. But not every state's leaders were for it. Arkansas was one, I can't name others because I wouldn't be 100% sure, I learned this crap in school. What I do remember is the Union tried to lure some Confederate states away from the Confederecy because of some leaders disapproval of slavery and for fear of losing the war. Needless to say it didn't work for fear of being turned on by the Confederecy and the Union both. Of course their were more reasons to this but I don't remember much more.

The Cival War has to be one of the most poorly documented set of events in American History. So much shit was covered up and disposed of I honestly think only a few professors out there can say what transpired with facts. Everybody else just talks out of their ass usually.

Especially about Lincoln. Yeah, he was not a good president, at all. I bet that man is burning in hell now. If there is a hell. I'm pretty fucking sick of people and our country displaying him as a hero.

[exstatic]

And why, praytell, is Lincoln burning in hell? Enquiring minds want to know...

[Brutalis]

I watched a program on the History channel a couple years back. They had a thing about Jefferson, who was PROVEN to have slaves and knocked one of them up. In the 2nd half of the show they talked about Lincoln. They said several of the people that worked for him and his administration made claims that he had family that had slaves in the Union. They pretty much went on to question his integrity because of several documents and people from that time saying he was a hypocrite. They also said that may be one of the reasons he was killed.

Jeffersons life was polished and cleaned just like Lincolns to look good to the naked eye. That's pretty much what it talked about.

Also, I've flipped through channels and seen programs debating that same issue about Lincoln. I just happen to not believe the fairy tale bullshit our Country tells us about him.

[boutons_]

Nearly all the Founding Fathers were slave owners. And, as I saw on the History channel's beer program, many were big brewers of beer. I think Washington actually brewed on a big scale.

The FFs also denied the vote to non-land-owners, to women, and of course to slaves.
Lynching blacks, aka murder, wasn't even a punished crime in the south and in many states until well into the 20th century.

To see that it took 100 - 150 years after the Constitution for the USA to become even close to what we all agree is "democracy" today, dubya/dickhead's bullshit idea of bringing democracy to the fucking medieval and tribal Middle East is totally unrealistic.

[Brutalis]

The Cival War also was not fought over slavery. It basically came down to the South not getting paid for it's crops being delivered to the North. They Yank's though they could underpay and do whatever the fuck they want just because they were the richer.

Also. The free trade of crops from the South to the world pissed the Union off. They didn't wanna pay the price and the South was determined to find a new customer then.

All this shit about the Union was in the "right" is bullshit and lies being taught to our kids. They were both wrong and fucking stupid. End of story.

And the Union had slaves, and did the blacks the same way the South did. The Union's MONEY covered it up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"I'm at the point where I really don't know what to do," she said.

Leave the purse at home you stupid bitch.

She should consider herself lucky, if she walked down certain streets in this country she'd end up with with a double tap in the head from a 9.

[exstatic]

And the Union had slaves, and did the blacks the same way the South did.
Whatever makes you sleep at night. Slavery was an institution that required a whole set of laws to maintain, laws that did not exist in the North where it was illegal. You can't keep slaves if they can walk out the door or hop the fence and be free.

[Brutalis]

Whatever makes you sleep at night. Slavery was an institution that required a whole set of laws to maintain, laws that did not exist in the North where it was illegal. You can't keep slaves if they can walk out the door or hop the fence and be free.

Right. Because nobody owned guns and all the whites in the North were fucking sweethearts to the blacks.

Wow. Okay.

[Brutalis]

whats wrong with showing your displeasure with the federal government? is advocating open warfare against yankees count as treason?

If you remember correctly the Union started the fight and finished it as well.

When ya steal you get your hand cut off. And the South had enough.

Wasn't like they had a say in anything. Yank's were too busy drinking their wine and shopping for a new hat I bet.

"Let's just underpay and laugh at them cause they cant do shit"

Well, shit happend. A war. Thanks.

[Brutalis]

I apolygize if I show a favor to the south it is because I was raised there. But I do know both sides were at fault and not one side had more than the other. It was a no brainer the Union was going to win though. And it's good that they did because the Southern leaders would have got power hungry and ruined this country if they had won.

[exstatic]

What? Nobody said no one owned guns, or that northerners were sweethearts to the blacks. It was just illegal to OWN them. Slavery cannot be sustained without laws to enforce it. Those only existed SOUTH of the Mason Dixon line.

Dude, this is such a guilt trip you're trying to avoid. Somehow, even though they seceded from the Union, the good people of Arkansas weren't really for slavery, but there were secret slaves kept in the North, where it was illegal and impossible to enforce. Are there black helicopters hovering outside your house?

[exstatic]

If you remember correctly the Union started the fight and finished it as well.


I remember Ft. Sumpter SC being fired on by treasonous rebels. You're half right, though. The Union certainly finished it.

[Brutalis]

What? Nobody said no one owned guns, or that northerners were sweethearts to the blacks. It was just illegal to OWN them. Slavery cannot be sustained without laws to enforce it. Those only existed SOUTH of the Mason Dixon line.

Dude, this is such a guilt trip you're trying to avoid. Somehow, even though they seceded from the Union, the good people of Arkansas weren't really for slavery, but there were secret slaves kept in the North, where it was illegal and impossible to enforce. Are there black helicopters hovering outside your house?

You sound like our wonderful fucking president taking things that are said and rewording them in an ignorant manner to sound like you have a point.

You're a cool guy but inside of this thread you are an idiot.

It's like you think I make this shit up.

Did you goto school in Arkansas? Did you see that program on [H] ? No? Then try to open your mind a little bit to learn more about the war other than what you read in your social studies book back in gradeschool. Or what the headlines say that being fed to you through our countries great opinions it pushes on its citizens to believe.

[Brutalis]

I remember Ft. Sumpter SC being fired on by treasonous rebels. You're half right, though. The Union certainly finished it.

Yes, they did.

And what was SC? Huh?

And the South was fucking tired of these theiving Yank's stealing hundreds of pounds of crops and grain and agriculture. When you steal, and steal, and underpay, repeat, your ass is going to get shot one way or another.

I don't know that those Yank's were stealing. But that was what was happening. And the South started firing on any intruders threatning their land. THAT's how fucking poor they was. PROTECTING THEIR LIFE AND WELL BEING.

[exstatic]

You can't see that schools in AR would have an interest in spinning their history in a positive light?

[exstatic]

Yes, they did.

And what was SC? Huh?

The South? You said the North started it. I was refuting your point, and rather well, I might add.

[Brutalis]

You can't see that schools in AR would have an interest in spinning their history in a positive light?

Kinda like Texas and how they deny being apart of the confedercy? You wanna get into a liars chair ?

[Brutalis]

The South? You said the North started it. I was refuting your point, and rather well, I might add.

Yes, they are the South. Yes I said the North started it. What don't you get?

[exstatic]

What? I have no idea what Texas teaches. If they refute the confederacy, good for them. It's not something to be proud of.

[Brutalis]

You can't see that schools in AR would have an interest in spinning their history in a positive light?
Our history sucks dude. There's nothing to spin anyways. We were the first state completely siezed by the Union, flat out owned because of the states lack of concern to stop them, which I dont blame them for either. What's their to spin light on?

[exstatic]

Yes, they are the South. Yes I said the North started it. What don't you get?
How you see the North starting it.

[Brutalis]

What? I have no idea what Texas teaches. If they refute the confederacy, good for them. It's not something to be proud of.

And it's something to be proud of to be from the Union? Are you fucking kidding me?

Another dude who overlooks the lies and scandals. You think the Union won, and didn't cover up their dirty tracks?

Wow. This war is not your best subject.

It's late, I'm done with this thread.

[Brutalis]

How you see the North starting it.



the South was fucking tired of these theiving Yank's stealing hundreds of pounds of crops and grain and agriculture. When you steal, and steal, and underpay, repeat, your ass is going to get shot one way or another.

I don't know that those Yank's were stealing. But that was what was happening. And the South started firing on any intruders threatning their land. (even their own too i might add) THAT's how fucking poor they was. PROTECTING THEIR LIFE AND WELL BEING.

[exstatic]

Winners write history. I'm out, too.

[Brutalis]

Winners write history. I'm out, too.
Right.

And when the war in Iraq is over. We will claim victory, then change the history books on what exactly happend to make it look good in and in our favour.

Wowwowowowowowow.

[cherylsteele]

I remember Ft. Sumpter SC being fired on by treasonous rebels. You're half right, though. The Union certainly finished it.
That is right....Ft. Sumpter was a UNION FORT and was attacked by the rebels of the Confederacy.

The causes were too many to really narrow down.
Another main cause people forget about is the south felt that it's individual state's rights were being disallowed altogether, mainly due to the slavery issue. They felt it should be the rights of the individual states to make it legal or not.

[ObiwanGinobili]

everybody and thier mother knows that Jeffersopn had slaves and that he knocked one of them up. In fact he may have knocked up more than one.. btu hte one he had a so-called "relationship" with for years was a slave he inhertied thru his wife (she came along at the time of the marriage). I never knew Jefferson's life had been "cleaned up" or "polished". He was who he was. I remeber learning about his life - good AND bad in school. Where do they teach that jefferson is squeaky clean??

and why does Lincoln's realtives possibly owning slaves make HIM a hypocrite? Becasue if your the president you have some kind of all controllign power over your family? Bill Clinton's brother has been arrested for DWI a few times... does that make Bill an alcoholic? My cousin is black. She is married to a white man whose eentire family are card carrying members of the KKK. Does that make him (the husband) a hypocrite? Becasue his FAMILY is KKK??

[ObiwanGinobili]

And wasn;t Lincoln's objective to maintain the Union?
Ebolishing slavery was just a politcal move. Keepign the Union intact was numero uno.

[Extra Stout]

^ generally speaking many if not most of the people who brandish a confederate government consider the confederacy a particular government... and for all intents and purposes it was.

My question being what is the difference between the "heritage not hate" when applied to nazism versus support of the confederacy?

The Confederate flag in common usage connotes, "I am a Southern white person and proud of it."

The Nazi flag connotes, "I agree with the ideals of the Third Reich."

I have a hard time believing that rednecks who sport Confederate flags want to secede from the United States, or bring back slavery.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Anyway,

those girls are dumbass's and they need to leave thier ridiculesly ugly purses at home.

[Extra Stout]

The Cival War also was not fought over slavery. It basically came down to the South not getting paid for it's crops being delivered to the North. They Yank's though they could underpay and do whatever the fuck they want just because they were the richer.
Absolute revisionist bullshit.

The states' articles of secession say nothing about crop payments. They say that the states were seceding because the federal government was trying to force a slavery ban on them in violation of the Tenth Amendment.

Unless you would like to claim said articles are fabrications?


All this shit about the Union was in the "right" is bullshit and lies being taught to our kids. They were both wrong and fucking stupid. End of story.

And the Union had slaves, and did the blacks the same way the South did. The Union's MONEY covered it up.
Yes, it sucks to admit that your ancestors fought in defense of the only government in history to codify the institution of slavery as a fundamental right in its constitution. That's a bitter pill to swallow, and denial of that, and projection of blame onto others, is less painful.

Clearly, there were slavery proponents in Union states. There were Union border states like Missouri that kept slaves.

And Lincoln did not wage the war in order to eliminate slavery, but rather to keep the Union intact, lest every political contention turn the middle of North America eventually into dozens of weak independent states upon which the European powers could prey.

And while the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth Amendments were passed in the aftermath of the war, the latter two were not enforced from 1877-1964, which tells you how seriously the North took the issue of equality.

Plus, the Klan started in Indiana, not the South.

So, sure, the North has its blemishes. That doesn't change the fact that Union soldiers bled and died to keep the Union together, while the Rebels fought and died to keep their fellow human beings in bondage, on behalf of wealthy landowners.

Talk about fucking stupid.

[Spurminator]

Somebody needs to just design a new flag for the South. That way there's a symbol for irrationally intense Southern Pride that doesn't also imply the condoning of hangin' negras. Maybe Charlie Daniels could design it.

Might need one for the North too so haughty New Englanders can have something to fly out of their apartment windows.

[Extra Stout]

I love the generalism placed on the Rebel Flag. Like if you have one you're a racist and you can't defend yourself or say different.
It's not necessarily "racist" in the way we usually think of it. Just because one displays the rebel flag does not mean one thinks blacks are inferior.

The banner undeniably does represent race, however. It is the flag of Southern white people. It is a nationalist flag. And it's the only widely used racially nationalist flag I can think of in this country, save the flags of immigrant ancestors (Italians, etc.) I suppose the Texas flag has something like that kind of pride wrapped up in it, though unlike the rebel cross it represents all Texans, rather than just the white ones.

And one can understand the bewilderment of blacks at seeing Southern whites choose as their banner that of the army which fought to keep their forefathers in bondage.

[Extra Stout]

Might need one for the North too so haughty New Englanders can have something to fly out of their apartment windows.
They already have one. It has thirteen horizontal stripes, alternating red and white, and the upper left quadrant is blue, with 50 stars.

[xrayzebra]

They already have one. It has thirteen horizontal stripes, alternating red and white, and the upper left quadrant is blue, with 50 stars.

Oh my goodness, the stars and stripes. Not that, it represents all those that are homophophic, that defend the country. Why they cant be allowed
to wear it on national news because we cant declare we are for the U.S.
We can only burn it or deface it, because it shows how we want to declare
how fair we are to diversity.

[Brutalis]

It's not necessarily "racist" in the way we usually think of it. Just because one displays the rebel flag does not mean one thinks blacks are inferior.

The banner undeniably does represent race, however. It is the flag of Southern white people. It is a nationalist flag. And it's the only widely used racially nationalist flag I can think of in this country, save the flags of immigrant ancestors (Italians, etc.) I suppose the Texas flag has something like that kind of pride wrapped up in it, though unlike the rebel cross it represents all Texans, rather than just the white ones.

And one can understand the bewilderment of blacks at seeing Southern

You said it's not racist then invoked that it is. Way to contradict yourself.

All I'm offended by is people being offended by it.

That's my heritage and my people.

And if I went by this thread I should be ashamed?

Just because people want to believe the Union was spiffy clean?

Can you guys not think for one second that the Confederate flag stood for something other than racism?

It's about labels. People have to stick something with something and that is just convienant and easy for people to do.

I sport the rebel flag in the GHETTO. I live in North Little Rock! If you've been to central Arkansas you know we have a big population of blacks! And you wanna know how many problems I've had with the flag? ZERO. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T OFFEND THEM. Hell, I even rode to school each morning in my rebel window shaded truck and picked up my friend who was black and his buddy! Were they offended? Nope.

Was anyone at my school offended? Uh, nope. Was my truck ever vandalized or was I ever talked to about it? No. Why? Because people in the South know the truth. They know the bullshit Yank's and people throw around just to throw blame.

Not that 100% of the South feels like I do. But it's the label you guys and the rest of the world put on the Rebel flag that I am fucking sick of. YOU KNOW NOTHING of what you speak of then. So many people here have made fools of theirselves just because they have fallen into the peer pressure culture to believe what mommy and daddy told them about.

Not once have I had a problem with anyone cause of the Rebel flag pattern in my back glass of my truck. I even offered to take it down to my friends (half of them being black) and they said it wasn't a problem that it was just a label people put on a flag. Matter of fact, my friend Rodney told me "Africans are proud of their heritage and culture and we display it everywhere and you don't see people riding our ass about it unless it's some stupid rapper making a fool of himself." And he's right. I even used to have a signature that was 1/3 rebel 1/3 american 1/3 arkansas flag.

http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/ar_flag.gif


Notice a trend?

Do people complain about this? Ohhhh nooooo because this one is okay it don't "mean" anything.


Give me a break. Enough fucking said.

[mookie2001]

brutalis I have no problem with you putting that bullshit on your ride

if you want to make such a strong cultural statement

thats your right
but you should be smart enough to know how most people will read that
you cant change what people think
but oh well
youre a rebel huh
from arkansas
who likes USC

pretty hardcore

[Brutalis]

Heh. Democrats.

[mookie2001]

^use black votes only to further homosexual agenda

[Brutalis]

brutalis I have no problem with you putting that bullshit on your ride

if you want to make such a strong cultural statement

thats your right
but you should be smart enough to know how most people will read that
you cant change what people think
but oh well
youre a rebel huh
from arkansas
who likes USC

pretty hardcore


Nah. I know I am the minority and it's okay. I would love to change how people think because I feel sad that I am looked at in that way when it's just not true.

And I fucking HATE USC. You punkass!

[mookie2001]

If I wore a rockets shirt because I liked the logo and what "rockets" stood for
I would/could still be a spurs fan
and people who knew me personally would know that

but I would be smart enough to know John Q Public would think I was a rockets fan
simple

[Brutalis]

If I wore a rockets shirt because I liked the logo and what "rockets" stood for
I would/could still be a spurs fan
and people who knew me personally would know that

but I would be smart enough to know John Q Public would think I was a rockets fan
simple

Maybe in your state.

[mookie2001]

ark and Tx arent considered the historical south anyway?

[mookie2001]

hey but the sticker looks cool

do you also have Misfits shirts?

[Brutalis]

ark and Tx arent considered the historical south anyway?

Are you in college? Is this how bright UT people are? No wonder Oklahoma owned Texas for so many years. :rolleyes

Anyhoo.

Arkansas is a historical Confederate state. And Texas was too... *I might add that you guys played a small role in the war though and I understand why Texans deny they were apart of the Confederecy today. You guy's didn't fight in the war I don't recall.

[mookie2001]

I don't go to UT
never said I did


I would only consider the 'historical south' one of the 13 original colonies
cool though
floridas in the south too...
I just don't see many confederate flags here in SOUTH TEXAS
but its a confederate state

[Brutalis]

I don't go to UT
never said I did


I would only consider the 'historical south' one of the 13 original colonies
cool though
floridas in the south too...
I just don't see many confederate flags here in SOUTH TEXAS
but its a confederate state


Like I said you guys didn't play a huge role in fighting the war so I see why there's no Confederate flags.

I know you didnt say you went to UT I just wondered.

And what you consider the historical south and what is the historical south are two different things.

The 13 original colonies?

Lmao. I gadda save that quote. :lol

[mookie2001]

there are not 75% mexicanos in Arkansas?

imagine...

[Brutalis]

Arkansas actually has the countries largest growing population of Mexicans.... what do they have to do with anything?

[mookie2001]

they dont usually fly the conferate flag
historically...
anyway
way to have mexicanos!

[Brutalis]

they dont usually fly the conferate flag
historically...
anyway
way to have mexicanos!
Honestly what the hell are you talking about man?

And yeah it's a pretty cool thing. They want jobs and Arkansas has plenty of then. Shit is finally getting done in this state and funny how it only took migrant workers to do it. In no way am I insulting them I'm just saying I don't mind them being here unlike a lot of people in this state.

[mookie2001]

I was talking about americans
Its just I refer to them as them as tejanos
but since theyre in arkansas
and migrants
you cant call them that
then they are true mexicanos

anyway

not being from what I consider to be the historical south
not being white
and thinking for myself I consider it to be GOOD that the north won the civil war

its a bold cultural statement that I will never make
and will scoff others for making

[Brutalis]

I was talking about americans
Its just I refer to them as them as tejanos
but since theyre in arkansas
and migrants
you cant call them that
then they are true mexicanos

anyway

not being from what I consider to be the historical south
not being white
and thinking for myself I consider it to be GOOD that the north won the civil war

its a bold cultural statement that I will never make
and will scoff others for making


I agree it was good the Union won. I stated that in previous replies in this thread. The Southern leaders were power driven and hungry.

I am proud to be where I'm from but it doesn't mean I am proud of everything that happend. The Union wasn't any better. Just less corrupt.

[Brutalis]

its a bold cultural statement that I will never make
and will scoff others for making

And you'll always be in the wrong for it too.

[Guru of Nothing]

Arkansas is a historical Confederate state. And Texas was too... *I might add that you guys played a small role in the war though and I understand why Texans deny they were apart of the Confederecy today. You guy's didn't fight in the war I don't recall.

Texan's have felt less and less Southern, ever since the invention of the breakfast taco.

John Henry Faulk, who was raised in Austin, comes to mind as a notable person who remarked on the subtle, and not so subtle, transition from Southerner to Westerner as one moved west across Texas.

Historically, you may have a point or two, but speaking in terms of present day culture, the average Texan does not give a rat's ass about the confederacy, save the usual suspects (some small town East Texan bumpkins), which makes sense if you believe that the Confederacy and individualism are mutually exclusive.

[Brutalis]

Texan's have felt less and less Southern, ever since the invention of the breakfast taco.

John Henry Faulk, who was raised in Austin, comes to mind as a notable person who remarked on the subtle, and not so subtle, transition from Southerner to Westerner as one moved west across Texas.

Historically, you may have a point or two, but speaking in terms of present day culture, the average Texan does not give a rat's ass about the confederacy, save the usual suspects (some small town East Texan bumpkins), which makes sense if you believe that the Confederacy and individualism are mutually exclusive.

No arguement here. I know squat about Texas and it's involvement in the war.

[Extra Stout]

You said it's not racist then invoked that it is. Way to contradict yourself.
Apparently you lack the intelligence to grasp my point. I'll say it slower and easier since you're a Southerner:

Waving the flag doesn't mean you hate blacks, but it does mean you are calling attention to your whiteness.


All I'm offended by is people being offended by it.

That's my heritage and my people.

And if I went by this thread I should be ashamed?Grownups can accept that their history has good and bad to it.

Frankly, I'm offended that you identify with some flag other than the Stars and Stripes. It makes me think maybe you're not totally loyal to this country. Midwesterners don't have their own flag. Blacks don't have their own flag.

So maybe Southerners just aren't as American as the rest of us are. Apparently, since you need your own flag and all. It's just a little bit... separatist. Like that "Aztlan" group in California.


Just because people want to believe the Union was spiffy clean?

Can you guys not think for one second that the Confederate flag stood for something other than racism?You seem to be a broken record.

The Confederate flag does not mean you hate blacks. It does not mean the North was awesome. Ask someone from Boston about the racism there.

It does mean that despite being a native-born American, you identify with a different flag. It does mean that you and your people are so childish and insecure that you cannot deal honestly with the negative aspects of your heritage and instead try to whitewash and rationalize it all away.

Which is one reason places like Arkansas, and Louisiana, and East Texas remain backwards little shitholes. I mean, other than the fact that they were settled largely by the descendants of the genetically stupid English criminals and debtors who got sent to Georgia (and yet Georgia itself is moving ahead!). It's hard to move forward when you always stay tethered to 1865. Cut the goddamn string. America has done plenty of other bad things in its history, too.


I sport the rebel flag in the GHETTO. I live in North Little Rock! If you've been to central Arkansas you know we have a big population of blacks! And you wanna know how many problems I've had with the flag? ZERO. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T OFFEND THEM. Hell, I even rode to school each morning in my rebel window shaded truck and picked up my friend who was black and his buddy! Were they offended? Nope.

Was anyone at my school offended? Uh, nope. Was my truck ever vandalized or was I ever talked to about it? No. Why? Because people in the South know the truth. They know the bullshit Yank's and people throw around just to throw blame.
Or, they just accept you as the cracka-ass-cracka that you are and deal with it. (That was a joke.)



http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/ar_flag.gif


Notice a trend?

Do people complain about this? Ohhhh nooooo because this one is okay it don't "mean" anything.


Give me a break. Enough fucking said.
Ooh, you Arkansasans, you really tricked everyone with that sneaky flag!

[SouthernFried]

The Further we get away from slavery and the civil war...the more "offended" people are by the symbols.

Silliness...by people too bored to be interesting.

[Brutalis]

Oh, forgot to mention I got the American flag up in my room. ALONE.

Need pics?

Stop trying to add "proud white" to everything to do with the CF. And I sounded like a broken record. Okay.

[Guru of Nothing]

Oh, forgot to mention I got the American flag up in my room. ALONE.

Need pics?

Stop trying to add "proud white" to everything to do with the CF. And I sounded like a broken record. Okay.

LOL @ CF

[/El Pimpo]

[Obi wan Ginobili]

People trying to make the confederate battle flag (or navy jack) what it isnt 140 years later really amuse me.

No one uses the flag of the failed confederacy anymore, they use the battle flag to represent the SOUTH. It doesnt represent the south before the war, It just represents the SOUTH. I'm sorry that some people feel that a symbol that has become synonymous with the south is a form of hate speech. They manifested that themselves though.

No one minds the fact that in the stars and stripes the stripes represent 13 colonies that all accepted slavery.

People really need to get a grip.

Slavery ended 140 years ago in this country. No one agrees with it now. No one is going to re-enslave anyone.

I'm sick of whiny crying little pussies making something out of nothing.