About Oberto (This isn't a bashing thread.)

[Kori Ellis]

The Pistons game is over for me, so I'm trying to move on ...

In listening to the Pop Show this week, he was saying that they feel kind of bad for Oberto because there's not any minutes for him. He even said "we can barely find minutes for Nazr sometimes" (paraphrase).

So looking back this summer, do you regret the decision to bring in Fabricio?

Could that $2.5M/year been better spent on someone else?

Is he a tradeable commodity at all? (I know the Pacers like him, but I don't know if any other teams know much about him.)

[hussker]

Devin

[Kori Ellis]

Devin would just crowd the swingspots that are already crowded. That doesn't really help anything IMO.

[timvp]

I'm not ready to give up. Much like Nazr, we haven't seen what he can and can't do this year. So far he looks like a bad rebounder, below average defender and a bad shooter who can pass well :)

But honestly, I'd rather start Oberto than Rasho. At least Oberto has a history of coming up big in big games. Rasho's lips turn ultraviolet purple when its a big game.

[Despot]

Devin would just crowd the swingspots that are already crowded. That doesn't really help anything IMO.

Yes, I missed Devin for awhile tonight, but he would not have been a long even short term answer.

[doldrums]

Look at Devin's Jazz stats. He is stinking it up over there, even with decent minutes.

[Despot]

I'm not ready to give up. Much like Nazr, we haven't seen what he can and can't do this year. So far he looks like a bad rebounder, below average defender and a bad shooter who can pass well :)

But honestly, I'd rather start Oberto than Rasho. At least Oberto has a history of coming up big in big games. Rasho's lips turn ultraviolet purple when its a big game.

At one point of the game, Rasho and another spur were standing under the basket, along with a couple of pistons, noone left the ground, except Manu, He went up high as if he was going to dunk it.

Before that Rasho dunked the ball, and the next possesion he gets it right at the rim, and tries to lay it in, BLOCKED.

[ShoogarBear]

The Spurs definitely needed another big.

Who else out there was/is an option?

(David Lee might have been nice :smokin )

[Kori Ellis]

At one point of the game, Rasho and another spur were standing under the basket, along with a couple of pistons, noone left the ground, except Manu, He went up high as if he was going to dunk it.

Before that Rasho dunked the ball, and the next possesion he gets it right at the rim, and tries to lay it in, BLOCKED.

Throughout a lot of the game, Bowen was the second leading rebounder after Duncan. :shootme Rasho never jumps but tonight he wasn't even getting in good position for boards. It was pretty disgusting.

[Brutalis]

I think we needs a chance at a few 30 minute games before we try and pull his plug.

*he, rather

[Dre_7]

The Spurs definitely needed another big.

Why would it matter?? Bringing in another big wont help cuz odds are he wont get any playing time. No no no. Not over Rasho the great!!!


(David Lee might have been nice :smokin )

But at the expense of the 2005 title? I dunno.

[TDMVPDPOY]

signin finley was bad, he needs to play alot of minutes to be effective
signin NVE was also bad, beno only has one bad series against the pistons, and we go out sign NVE to take his spot :(:( very bad idea
signin ORBs who cant jump shit, watta waste of MLE.
horry only shows up in the playoffs :(
rasho n nazr havin up n down season :(

seriously we shouldve kept the same team from last year, and dont sign any of those guys but bring in javto+mahinmi.

Maybe the pacers are still interested in orbs+barry for artest, then we goto bulls and trade rasho+nazr for deng+ben gordan

[dn0]

http://www.freakbsd.com/~fbladilo/fotos/radoslav_nesterovic.jpg = http://www.freakbsd.com/~fbladilo/fotos/frankie.jpg

rasho was not born , he was re-animated.

[Das Texan]

Hell at this point we might as well start Oberto.


We aint doing shit with what we have now.


Rasho needs to find a spot below Marks on the active roster.

[vanvannen]

He never had a real chance to show his (in)effectiveness. Last night, when no one was getting a rebound could have been a good time, but then again he didn't get a single rebound in 4 minutes.
I think he has potential, but playing only garbage time doesn't help. I kind of feel bad for the guy, he seemed to be pretty excited about signing with the Spurs.

[JamStone]

(David Lee might have been nice )


But at the expense of the 2005 title? I dunno.


I think he meant at the expense of drafting Ian Mahinmi. David Lee was still available then. It would have had no bearing on the 2005 title.

[Extra Stout]

Solutions are sit Tim for 3 weeks and get it over with.
This is a misconception. Tim Duncan will not get better with three weeks of rest.

It takes months to clear up plantar fasciitis, and after that the player has to get back in shape.

Duncan would have to sit until the playoffs to heal, and spend the entire Western Conference Playoffs working his way back into shape, to have a chance to be "healthy" in the Finals.

[Extra Stout]

I don't understand the full extent of the injury but even if they rested him for as long as 2 months I would think that would help and then still be back in full swing for the post season. If he goes on like this all year and into the post season I'm not so sure they could get back to the finals.
I think the Spurs simply will have to play the cards they have been dealt.

Last year they won the championship while Duncan played on two sprained ankles.

[FromWayDowntown]

Here's what I don't get: there was a time when Pop was a pure matchup coach. He'd maintain a starting lineup, but often would shuffle his rotation to meet certain matchups.

Here's the perfect opportunity to do just that, and Pop doesn't. Rasho is actually a pretty decent choice against many teams in the NBA, but he's a terrible matchup against Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and Antonio McDyess. Nazr is a slightly better matchup against Big Ben and Dyess, mostly because he's willing to put a body on a guy, even if he doesn't have the lateral movement to beat those guys to spots. I thought, in part, this made Nazr helpful in the 2005 Finals. As between those two, Nazr is, I think, the better matchup against the Pistons.

But, to me, Oberto might be an even better choice. From what I see, Oberto is more physical than either of the other two guys and at least presents the possibility of being both quick enough and nasty enough to box someone out and offset the rebounding differential to some extent. I don't think you can play Oberto against every team, but I do think he's a guy who can do little things to help the Spurs against a team with a front line that relies a lot on athleticism because it isn't all that long.

Rasho shouldn't play -- or at least shouldn't play much -- against clubs like Detroit.

[boutons_]

I think Fabrcio makes up in boxing out reflexes and aggression what he gives up in inches to Razr.

I've been freaked out by the Spurs horrible rebounding, so I've been watching Razr pretty closely on shots. Both those guys love to spectate shots from no man's land, rather than crashing the boards as soon as a shot goes up. Neither are very aggressive at fighting around a blocker and at fightting for position. I felt like punching them both out last night. Jason Kidd and several other b/c players are a better rebounders than Razr. They punch their meal ticket with RBs, and they won't fucking do it. Ridiculous.

[leemajors]

Here's what I don't get: there was a time when Pop was a pure matchup coach. He'd maintain a starting lineup, but often would shuffle his rotation to meet certain matchups.

Here's the perfect opportunity to do just that, and Pop doesn't. Rasho is actually a pretty decent choice against many teams in the NBA, but he's a terrible matchup against Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and Antonio McDyess. Nazr is a slightly better matchup against Big Ben and Dyess, mostly because he's willing to put a body on a guy, even if he doesn't have the lateral movement to beat those guys to spots. I thought, in part, this made Nazr helpful in the 2005 Finals. As between those two, Nazr is, I think, the better matchup against the Pistons.

But, to me, Oberto might be an even better choice. From what I see, Oberto is more physical than either of the other two guys and at least presents the possibility of being both quick enough and nasty enough to box someone out and offset the rebounding differential to some extent. I don't think you can play Oberto against every team, but I do think he's a guy who can do little things to help the Spurs against a team with a front line that relies a lot on athleticism because it isn't all that long.

Rasho shouldn't play -- or at least shouldn't play much -- against clubs like Detroit.

this is one of the few intelligent posts on the matter i have seen. most posts focus on rasho-bashing rather than him being mismatched against certain lineups.

[Old School Chic]

Pop,

Please give Fab more playing time.

Sincerely, a Spurs Fan

[ShoogarBear]

I just don't see where some of you guys are getting the idea that Oberto is going to help us in situations where we need rebounding.

[FromWayDowntown]

I just don't see where some of you guys are getting the idea that Oberto is going to help us in situations where we need rebounding.

Getting a body on a person tends to reduce the chances that such person will be able to rebound the basketball. My thought is that Oberto is more likely to get a body on Ben Wallace or McDyess than Rasho is. If you get a body on those guys, your teammates have a better chance to grab the board. Hence, my belief that Oberto would tend to aid in changing the rebounding differential.

[Solid D]

(1) So looking back this summer, do you regret the decision to bring in Fabricio?

(2) Could that $2.5M/year been better spent on someone else?

(3) Is he a tradeable commodity at all? (I know the Pacers like him, but I don't know if any other teams know much about him.)

(1). There will be minutes for people who really shine and make a difference. So far, Oberto hasn't made much of an impact when he's out there. Would Luis Scola be shining and making a difference? He was the Spurs first choice but that didn't work out. He would at least bring energy and a willingness to score. I regret someone like Scola or Malik not being there to shake things up. Oberto hasn't shown enough of that yet.

I think Oberto's passing ability is something most of his Spurs teammates have commented about. He just hasn't impacted the + side of the +/- when he's gotten some floor time.

(2). Could his $2.5M be spent on someone else? Perhaps. Darius Songaila would have been a better impact player. The Bulls got him for $2.2M/yr. for a 2 yr. deal. He's 6'8" like Scola, and although he has a different style, he is a good offensive contributor like Scola is. Othella Harrington would have been great but he signed a one-year deal for $3.2M with Chicago. Zo is a Dollar Menu guy ($1.1M - 1 yr.) but we all know what his motivation is and he wanted to stay in Miami with Shaq and Wade.

Oberto had a a rep. as a great team player with size so he seemed like a good choice when Scola's payout ended up being so huge. Harrington or Songaila might have earned at least 10 min./game.

(3). Oberto is tradeable, but probably not one-for-one. His salary slot could be used for a multi-player deal to balance-out the value.

[2centsworth]

This is a misconception. Tim Duncan will not get better with three weeks of rest.

It takes months to clear up plantar fasciitis, and after that the player has to get back in shape.

Duncan would have to sit until the playoffs to heal, and spend the entire Western Conference Playoffs working his way back into shape, to have a chance to be "healthy" in the Finals.
Lets do it, because he's not doing the spurs any good hurt.

[Kori Ellis]

If sitting Duncan would accomplish anything, they'd sit him. But it doesn't seem that time off of a month or so is going to do anything ... and it doesn't seem that playing is going to make it any worse. A lot of players play with plantar fasciitis and just have to tough it out. Didn't Rasheed (or another Piston?) have it for the majority of last year?

It's painful, but he can use some sort of insert. He's just not going to be able to be as agile or jump as well as he normally does.

It might go away in a week's time or a month's time or maybe not for six months. Who knows. There's no real time frame for recovery and no real indicator that rest will cure it more rapidly.

[ShoogarBear]

Getting a body on a person tends to reduce the chances that such person will be able to rebound the basketball. My thought is that Oberto is more likely to get a body on Ben Wallace or McDyess than Rasho is. If you get a body on those guys, your teammates have a better chance to grab the board. Hence, my belief that Oberto would tend to aid in changing the rebounding differential.

Theoretically what you're saying is certainly possible.

But how many players have ever been/could ever be described as "not a great rebounder, but he helps his team get more rebounds"?

I just don't think I buy it. I think the best way to help your team on the boards is by rebounding.

[ShoogarBear]

BTW, back to the original point, I think Oberto was the best option available at the time. I just don't think he's the answer to current issues.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Ockham's Razor- best way to help rebounding differential is to rebound...

[texbumTHElife]

I will say this about Oberto - The guy givews 150% on every single play. I dont think Rasho even knows what 75% feels like. Nazr has to many mental gaps to bridge to get to 100%.

If Oberto got the time and learned his spots and assignments he would, no doubt in my mind, steal the starting spot from both Rasho and Nazr. I know he has to prove it in practice but when you are practicing with/against this horrible rebounding team what kind of measure is that?

[boutons_]

I liked how Fabricio got in, was it Tayshaun's? grill last night after Tayshaun picked up his dribble on the baseline. Fab smothered Tay, and the other Spurs cut off other passing lanes. Tay had to call a time out. And Fab gives up a lot of length and arms to Tay.

If Razr had even bothered to challenge Tay like that, they would have fouled him.

[ALVAREZ6]

All I know is we need some to fucking step up and get boards vs. Detroit. The Pistons have out-rebounded us in every fucking game it seems like, they get every offensive board, and the Spurs slack off. The Spurs normally do not deserve to win against the Pistons because they don't show that they want it.

[E20]

I got it! Bench Duncan for the whole season and have him comeback for the last 15 games. :hat