Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley discussion

[ALVAREZ6]

I can't stand this guy. Yeah, he hits 3 sometimes, but he does not play Spurs basketball. Everytime he comes into a game, he ruins the Spurs offensive chemistry. You don't jack up a 3 when you are barely open and you're the first one down on offense with the rest of your team still making the transition from defense to offense, especially if 4 Pistons are already back on D.

NVE has a different style of play, always shooting forced shots, and he got lucky on a shot last night, but he just takes rediculous shots every game. Finley is ruining the team chemistry too, because he gets hungry for points. I don't know why, but Finley feels like he needs points...all of his shots are forced, fadeaway jumpers, and rarely go in.

Yeah, Manu took a bunch of shitty shots last night, but generaly speaking, he doesn't force shots.

The Spurs normally are a solid team on offense that take good, open shots. Finley and NVE just don't fit in with the system, they would fit in more in a style of offense like Philly or a scrubby eastern conference team. They don't understand that there are better options than forcing shots because they feel like they need to score.


Don't get the wrong idea, I am not trying to bash NVE or Finley, but I just don't think they fit in with this team.

What are your thoughts?

[texbumTHElife]

This team would easily be in double digits in the loss column without Finley. NVE's presence on the court last night was huge every time we made a run. yeah he jacks up some shots but with Tony reminding us of his dissappearing act in the finals last year NVE did a great job of running the show.

[midgetonadonkey]

They are still trying to get adjusted to the new offense and their new roles. If they are playing this shitty during the playoffs, I'll be the first to ask for their heads on a stick, but for now we have to give them time to adjust.

[ALVAREZ6]

I just wonder why Finley always take his shots when he has a dude right in his face, can't he drive to the basket or somethin?

[boutons_]

Nick does shoot too much and too soon.

If he was 45% career shooter, instead of 40% career, you can' argue when someone hits their shots.

if the Spurs were a superb off. RB team, then go ahead and shoot, but the Spurs are scuking so bad on O RBs, it most often "one and done".

I'm quite surprised Pop hasn't told Nick to hold off on the transition 3Gs a bit, if not totally.

It also seems that Nick does a lot of free-lancing, rather than within offensive sets.

Michael is just shooting horribly for the season, 40% season vs 45% career.

His no shows have figured in some Spurs losses, eg, Bucks, both Pistons games, Suns game.

[2centsworth]

nve and fin are not the problem pop is.

[ALVAREZ6]

Tim is also taking really bad shots...


Last night, one of his first attempts was his usual bank shot which never goes in anymore, and he missed. He tries the same shot again, missed. Later in the game, same shot....way off.

Why is Tim missing his signature shot so much, 2 years ago that shot was automatic.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Alvarez, drop your bias, Manu jacked up and forced more than a few shots last night, he's just Manu so luckily some of them dropped.

I agree, NVE's style is whack in relation to Pop's schemes. But tough shit. We got him for a reason and we know what NVE likes to do (he's been doing it his entire career) and we did not get him to become a defensive stopper and passive player.

I think the shortcoming is 90% Pop's.
It is up to Pop to adjust his gameplan and schemes to accomodate the strengths of NVE and Finley.
The remaining 10% is NVE's fault...imo he just needs to practice those damn Three's more, learn when and where he'll most likely get his 3's in the offense, and etc

When he took that straight up Three-Ball when we were 10 behind in the fourth, I was literally begging him to do it as he walked the ball up the court. Why?
Because it's what we fuckin needed! We needed a fucking jump shot, we needed a three ball to stretch the D, and he did the right thing--He was wide fucking open.

He just needs to practice threes more, i guess. If we could do it again, Id want him to take that same fucking shot.
If he had made it, then its a 7 point lead and the defense is guarding NVE closer to the perimeter.

I hate when people bash a guy for doing the thing he does.

Pop just needs to hit the books and consult his advisors and come up with some new schemes...if NVE and Finley continue to struggle in the Spurs offense its fuckin Pop's fault, not theirs. They are trying.

NVE could jack up 10x more stupid shots if he wanted, and he at least is taking care of teh ball and trying to pass it when he can.
Finley is a prime example of Pop's ineptness. He's running and doing what Pop is telling him to.

Pop, this one's on you.

[ALVAREZ6]

nve and fin are not the problem pop is.
Pop is fucking retarded. Last night, the Spurs are only down 8 points at the end, and we are fucking playing TP, NVE, and Manu in the backcourt....now why the fuck do we need 2 PG's to come back and make it a close game???


On the defensive end, you have a PG on chauncey, and then another PG on Rip...that doesn't work. Also, Prince will win the rebounding battle on Manu most of the time.

For the best defense, Pop should have had Tim and Rasho down low, and then Horry on Prince, Manu on Rip, and Bruce on Chauncey. That would have been nice. Or if not that, at least have Bruce in the fucking game on prince and TP on chauncey, and manu on rip.

[ALVAREZ6]

Alvarez, drop your bias, Manu jacked up and forced more than a few shots last night, he's just Manu so luckily some of them dropped.

Did I not say that in my very first post???


Manu took a bunch of shitty shots last night

A bunch normally refers to more than a few, even more than that. So I don't know where you pulled that from.



I didn't like the shots he was taking, I kept saying WTF are you doing...but at least he tryed in other aspects of the game. Manu was going all out last night.

[2centsworth]

Why doesn't Pop let the team that won the championship defend the championship?

Maybe because Pop thinks too highly of himself.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Pop is fucking retarded. Last night, the Spurs are only down 8 points at the end, and we are fucking playing TP, NVE, and Manu in the backcourt....now why the fuck do we need 2 PG's to come back and make it a close game???


On the defensive end, you have a PG on chauncey, and then another PG on Rip...that doesn't work. Also, Prince will win the rebounding battle on Manu most of the time.

For the best defense, Pop should have had Tim and Rasho down low, and then Horry on Prince, Manu on Rip, and Bruce on Chauncey. That would have been nice. Or if not that, at least have Bruce in the fucking game on prince and TP on chauncey, and manu on rip.

His subs were very questionable, but I liked the 2 point guard idea. Here's why.

1) Billups was not on fire
2) putting a fast player on Rip was a good idea--all he does is jump shot and if you put a taller player on him who can't get there in time to put a hand in his face, its point-less.

Rasho was fucking made absolutely stupid last night by a small forward. I realize it was tayshaun prince, but god dammit Rasho is such a suckass.

Also, putting Bruce back in the game when we've scored 56 points in the fourth quarter would not ahve been a very good idea..

[ALVAREZ6]

2) putting a fast player on Rip was a good idea--all he does is jump shot and if you put a taller player on him who can't get there in time to put a hand in his face, its point-less.
Can't Manu or Bruce chase him around?

Also, putting Bruce back in the game when we've scored 56 points in the fourth quarter would not ahve been a very good idea..
Why not? He leads the league in 3-point %, and made some shots in that game, is shooting better jumpers this year, really improved offensive game.

Bruce gives you 3's and defense.

[himat]

His subs were very questionable, but I liked the 2 point guard idea. Here's why.

1) Billups was not on fire
2) putting a fast player on Rip was a good idea--all he does is jump shot and if you put a taller player on him who can't get there in time to put a hand in his face, its point-less.

Rasho was fucking made absolutely stupid last night by a small forward. I realize it was tayshaun prince, but god dammit Rasho is such a suckass.

Also, putting Bruce back in the game when we've scored 56 points in the fourth quarter would not ahve been a very good idea..

get your facts straight you've barely seen any piston games. rip has started to post up smaller gaurds a lot and don't tell me i'm wrong because i've watched all 33 of their games this season. chauncey did bad shooting wise but he isn't going to do that every game.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Can't Manu or Bruce chase him around?
Why not? He leads the league in 3-point %, and made some shots in that game, is shooting better jumpers this year, really improved offensive game.

Bruce gives you 3's and defense.


I don't like Manu on rip, Bruce can chase him around but got scored on alot in the early-going I think.

The Pistons are damn good at playing the spurs now. They know exactly what we're giong to do and how to do it. Bowen's shots were covered pretty well. He's a good 3 point shooter but he's a predictable one.

Also, when parker is not getting others involved (BTW where the FUCK WAS THE PARKER-DUNCAN PICK N ROLL? fuckin pop), and the 5 defensive guys have their eyes on one player, Bowen's opportunities are limited.

Pistons just owned us last night. Pop should have left bowen in more in the early going but putting him in when we're already playing pathetic offensively is a bad move i think.

[himat]

Why doesn't Pop let the team that won the championship defend the championship?

Maybe because Pop thinks too highly of himself.

spur fans hating pop? been their detroiters have been angry at lb's offensive ways now that flip suanders has vastly improved it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

get your facts straight you've barely seen any piston games. rip has started to post up smaller gaurds a lot and don't tell me i'm wrong because i've watched all 33 of their games this season. chauncey did bad shooting wise but he isn't going to do that every game.


Get your facts straight Rip can't post up for shit against the spurs and did not do it at all with efficiency last night nor has he ever in the past 2 seasons. We're not the same teams you play throughout the season.


And I never said Chaucny would shoot that bad every game so try to read next time.

[himat]

I don't like Manu on rip, Bruce can chase him around but got scored on alot in the early-going I think.

The Pistons are damn good at playing the spurs now. They know exactly what we're giong to do and how to do it. Bowen's shots were covered pretty well. He's a good 3 point shooter but he's a predictable one.

Also, when parker is not getting others involved (BTW where the FUCK WAS THE PARKER-DUNCAN PICK N ROLL? fuckin pop), and the 5 defensive guys have their eyes on one player, Bowen's opportunities are limited.

Pistons just owned us last night. Pop should have left bowen in more in the early going but putting him in when we're already playing pathetic offensively is a bad move i think.

if rip did great on bowen he would of done amazing against manu. i agree yuo all would of hated it if manu was gaurding rip, then again tayshaun took advantage.

[ALVAREZ6]

The Pistons are damn good at playing the spurs now. They know exactly what we're giong to do and how to do it.
Couldn't agree more. It's almost impossible for the Spurs to score on them, Tony and Manu do the best job at scoring vs. Detroit.


Duncan just gets outplayed by Sheed, Sheed really knows how to defend him, and he shoots and hits any shot in TD's face. Prince is just an all around factor every game, Chauncey normally toys with Parker, and Rip will always get his off-the-screen jumpers, no matter what.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

if rip did great on bowen he would of done amazing against manu. i agree yuo all would of hated it if manu was gaurding rip, then again tayshaun took advantage.
He scored 3 baskets on Bowen the whole game. They were quick, and early, but I wouldn't say he did 'great' on bowen.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The game can best be summed up when Ben Wallace blocked the shit out of Duncan's hook shot.

That is a physical impossibility unless Tim Duncan seriously jumped like 1 inch off the ground. Duncan needs to sit on the bench. I don't give a fuck if we tank an entire month, get his ass healthy. It hurts watching Ben Wallace do that, when we all know what a healthy Duncan can do to Ben Wallace:

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nba/_photos/2004-12-03-inside-spurs.jpg

[Cant_Be_Faded]

ALSO, i gotta say, Pistons are jump-shot MASTERS now. Very hard to defend a team that has so many bad ass jump shooters on it.

Seems like McDeyess has become Billy Badass at jumpshots now. He did the same thing on x-mas.

And that's BESIDES the ownage in rebounding McDeyess alone had against us.

What a horrible horrible performance. Luckily, the spurs have plenty of time to recouperate and improve.

[ALVAREZ6]

That Ben block on TD was stupid, any player in the league could block that shot...


WTF do you expect when you are turning to the right with your right hand (in this case, it's closer to the player) and barely jumping....that is the formula for an easy block. Why can't duncan just use his right hand, but take it to the left for a hook shot?

[ALVAREZ6]

I'm just gonna pray that the Pistons lose to the Heat in the play-offs....

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The pick and rolls weren't there because Detroit switched on a lot of them.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The pick and rolls weren't there because Detroit switched on a lot of them.


I did not see one parker-duncan pick n roll the entire game...i'm not saying it didnt happen, i just didnt see one.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I did not see one parker-duncan pick n roll the entire game...i'm not saying it didnt happen, i just didnt see one.

Didn't you see Sheed on the ball guarding TP a few times?

[BigVee]

It is not just the Pistons that know the Spurs offense...every team in the league knows exactly what they are going to do. If they run it with passion and set hard screens and cuts, etc. they can still do okay...but to simply run through their motion O... just doesn't do it anymore. Time for a little innovation. Holding the Pistons to 85 and 83 should get you two wins, I think. And I agree with someone who said...let's let the team that won the title defend it. That means back to the end of season starting five, Barry and Horry first off the bench, Rasho not much at all, and Finley and NVE can watch.

[Que Gee]

I don't know why everyone seems surprised by this? Kerr, Steve Smith, Hedo, Barry, Finley, NVE....EVERYTIME they bring in a player to be the "difference" maker...they don't play worth shit the first year. I loved all the Barry bashing last year. For whatever reason Finley and NVE have gotten off easy this year. Everyone wanted Barry traded by this time last year. No one seemed to remember the struggles of the previous players brought in before Barry...These guys are going through exactly what the other 4 players went through before them. You'd think after awhile some people on this board would figure out, that it is more than a coincidence that "solid" NBA players come in and struggle their first year in San Antonio.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It is not just the Pistons that know the Spurs offense...every team in the league knows exactly what they are going to do. If they run it with passion and set hard screens and cuts, etc. they can still do okay...but to simply run through their motion O... just doesn't do it anymore. Time for a little innovation. Holding the Pistons to 85 and 83 should get you two wins, I think. And I agree with someone who said...let's let the team that won the title defend it. That means back to the end of season starting five, Barry and Horry first off the bench, Rasho not much at all, and Finley and NVE can watch.


I say screw that, or at least hold off on it, until a couple of more months.

Let the Pistons play their starters for most of every regular season game. Let them look awesome in the regular season. I don't give a shit. I like that fact. Phoenix did it last year, look where it got them.

[ALVAREZ6]

Phoenix did it last year, look where it got them.
Yeah but they will have HCA in finals......

[BigVee]

I say screw that, or at least hold off on it, until a couple of more months.

Let the Pistons play their starters for most of every regular season game. Let them look awesome in the regular season. I don't give a shit. I like that fact. Phoenix did it last year, look where it got them.

I could live with holding off, as long as they finally get back to it. Barry looks heavy and out of shape....needs to play more...if you look at his stats and normalize them for minutes they are similar to Finlelys.

[himat]

Get your facts straight Rip can't post up for shit against the spurs and did not do it at all with efficiency last night nor has he ever in the past 2 seasons. We're not the same teams you play throughout the season.


And I never said Chaucny would shoot that bad every game so try to read next time.

rip will fucking post up tony parker anytime he wants, maybe not bowen but parker won't get away with it. also you said that it was a good idea to have 2 point gaurds on defense. and what i said was that you won't always be able to do that against chauncey. so don't go cussing at me, and i've been watching rip this season he has been postoing up smaller gaurds, how many games have you seen him play this season, i've been watching the whole season so when it comes to this i know what i'm talking about.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

and what i said was that you won't always be able to do that against chauncey. so
No you didn't, you took offense that I said Chauncy had a bad game and let me know that he doesn't have many bad games.


rip will fucking post up tony parker anytime he wants,

Okay I guess I missed parker getting constantly abused by Rip Hamilton posting up on him yesterday, on christmas day, and in the 7 game series.

Lets take a look at the film and see how effortlessly he posted up tony last night. :rolleyes

[himat]

I say screw that, or at least hold off on it, until a couple of more months.

Let the Pistons play their starters for most of every regular season game. Let them look awesome in the regular season. I don't give a shit. I like that fact. Phoenix did it last year, look where it got them.

yes the starters have played a lot, but the bench has had more pt lately besides yesterday's game. phoenix played there starters way more. also i think it was the fact that phoenix was very very bad defensively that made them lose not the pt. also the pistons in the past 2 season's have had not great regular season's with a lot of pt for the starters, but they almost won back to back. now they're on pace to get homecourt, i think people overthink about playing time.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yes the starters have played a lot, but the bench has had more pt lately besides yesterday's game. phoenix played there starters way more. also i think it was the fact that phoenix was very very bad defensively that made them lose not the pt. also the pistons in the past 2 season's have had not great regular season's with a lot of pt for the starters, but they almost won back to back. now they're on pace to get homecourt, i think people overthink about playing time.


Look at the Spurs/Phoenix series and tell me the Suns weren't flat footed and slow on rotations in almost every 4th quarter...
Playtime does matter. These people are human.
Maybe doesn't matter for rip...that guys' a machine...but it does matter.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

No you didn't, you took offense that I said Chauncy had a bad game and let me know that he doesn't have many bad games.



Okay I guess I missed parker getting constantly abused by Rip Hamilton posting up on him yesterday, on christmas day, and in the 7 game series.

Lets take a look at the film and see how effortlessly he posted up tony last night. :rolleyes

I would assume it's because he didn't have to last night...

[himat]

No you didn't, you took offense that I said Chauncy had a bad game and let me know that he doesn't have many bad games.



Okay I guess I missed parker getting constantly abused by Rip Hamilton posting up on him yesterday, on christmas day, and in the 7 game series.

Lets take a look at the film and see how effortlessly he posted up tony last night. :rolleyes

chauncey did bad shooting at least he had 14 dimes while parker had 0. rip didn't post in the finals i don't know what lb was trying to do there. rip doesn't always post up but he takes smaller gaurds inside he doesn't shoot 20 footers all day even though he is money on that.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Look at the Spurs/Phoenix series and tell me the Suns weren't flat footed and slow on rotations in almost every 4th quarter...
Playtime does matter. These people are human.
Maybe doesn't matter for rip...that guys' a machine...but it does matter.


And the Spurs top 4 play comparable minutes...

Didn't TD play almost 40 minutes last night?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

And the Spurs top 4 play comparable minutes...

Didn't TD play almost 40 minutes last night?


I can only speak for pistons-spurs games, and yalls starters are practically out there the whole time + the solid McDeyess minutes.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I can only speak for pistons-spurs games, and yalls starters are practically out there the whole time + the solid McDeyess minutes.


Well then open your eyes...

TD, TP and BB all played 39+ in the first meeting...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Well then open your eyes...

TD, TP and BB all played 39+ in the first meeting...


You do realize all yoru starters are averaging over 35 minutes a game right?

That's all my comments were meant to address. Duh--I realize pop played our starters alot against yours.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You do realize all yoru starters are averaging over 35 minutes a game right?

That's all my comments were meant to address. Duh--I realize pop played our starters alot against yours.

Yeah and so are all of the Spurs starters who "contribute"...

:lol :lol

The Ps starters play more minutes because they have a better 5 and Manu's been hurt...

You people are crazy to think that Pop wouldn't play a 5 of Ben's talent 33-37 minutes per, any coach worth his salt would...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yeah and so are all of the Spurs starters who "contribute"...

:lol :lol

The Ps starters play more minutes because they have a better 5 and Manu's been hurt...

You people are crazy to think that Pop wouldn't play a 5 of Ben's talent 33-37 minutes per, any coach worth his salt would...


Um, no, Spurs starters are not averaging that many minutes...And naturally you want your starters to play the most minutes.
Maybe I'm influenced by Pop's stupid actions, but yalls starters are still averaging alot of minutes. That's all I was saying. I am also pretty sure that come playoff time this statistic will not help the pistons.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Um, no, Spurs starters are not averaging that many minutes...And naturally you want your starters to play the most minutes.
Maybe I'm influenced by Pop's stupid actions, but yalls starters are still averaging alot of minutes. That's all I was saying. I am also pretty sure that come playoff time this statistic will not help the pistons.


TD, TP, and BB are averaging just as many minutes as their Pistons counterparts...

Look it up...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

TD, TP, and BB are averaging just as many minutes as their Pistons counterparts...

Look it up...

3/5 not = 5/5

I realize manus' been hurt but he's never averaged more than 35 mins a game. It's called managing players minutes. That's why he ruined every team we played against in the playoffs (when it mattered)

[himat]

Look at the Spurs/Phoenix series and tell me the Suns weren't flat footed and slow on rotations in almost every 4th quarter...
Playtime does matter. These people are human.
Maybe doesn't matter for rip...that guys' a machine...but it does matter.

it matters, but phoenix was already a horrible defensive team, it matters but i don't think it will make a team lose a series. think of it this way are starting line up has all star calibre, and allstars play above average minutes.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

3/5 not = 5/5


Yeah because 4 has been hurt and Wallace is five times the player that Rashazr is...

That's my point. If the Spurs had somewhat comparable 5 to Wallace, there is no doubt he would play him the same minutes. It isn't about rest, not showing your rotation(as heard earlier), etc. It's about talent...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yeah because 4 has been hurt and Wallace is five times the player that Rashazr is...

That's my point. If the Spurs had somewhat comparable 5 to Wallace, there is no doubt he would play him the same minutes. It isn't about rest, not showing your rotation(as heard earlier), etc. It's about talent...


It is about rest. The NBA season is long as hell man..
Re-Watch Phoenix tapes from last season. These people are only human...They can't perform like this forever.
It's called fatigue.

No doubt yall got talent, that is a given...I'm not arguing about that.

If you see nothing wrong with it then cool--I sincerely hope Flip sees nothing wrong with it either. I pray he doesn't. Cuz ya'll are in for a rude awakening come playoff time if the starters keep this playing time up.

[leemajors]

spur fans hating pop? been their detroiters have been angry at lb's offensive ways now that flip suanders has vastly improved it.

i don't see why pistons fans would be upset with larry brown about his offensive schemes... he took you to the finals twice for chrissakes. you don't even know if a less controlled offense could have taken you to the finals in the first place.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It is about rest. The NBA season is long as hell man..
Re-Watch Phoenix tapes from last season. These people are only human...They can't perform like this forever.
It's called fatigue.

No doubt yall got talent, that is a given...I'm not arguing about that.

If you see nothing wrong with it then cool--I sincerely hope Flip sees nothing wrong with it either. I pray he doesn't. Cuz ya'll are in for a rude awakening come playoff time if the starters keep this playing time up.

I know what you're saying, but the people who are going to matter for the Spurs are playing heavy minutes(except Manu, which seems to be his MO). Does it really matter if Rashazr is rested?

The talent thing was geared toward SA. If they had the talent at center, said center would play 33-37 minutes per...

That's what I mean about talent...

[himat]

Um, no, Spurs starters are not averaging that many minutes...And naturally you want your starters to play the most minutes.
Maybe I'm influenced by Pop's stupid actions, but yalls starters are still averaging alot of minutes. That's all I was saying. I am also pretty sure that come playoff time this statistic will not help the pistons.

this team is tough they'll probably will fight through. the starters were lighting it up very early in the season and flip didn't want to put the bench in much because of that. when they cooled down a bit he used the bench more.

[E20]

What killed us was:

Duncan going 7-17 and Manu going 4-13.

As well as player rotations.

Chauncey was off tonight, although he had 14 asissts, he only had 9 points and 6 Turnovers. Which leads me to think why wasn't Bruce on Rip for the game?(Rip 22 points on 48% shooting) Bruce could have had an effect and made Rip less effective.

[Kori Ellis]

Pop limited Bruce's minutes (25?) because neither Chauncey nor Rip were going off so he was running a lineup geared toward scoring (with TP and NVE on the floor) for long stretches.

[SequSpur]

Pop limited Bruce's minutes (25?) because neither Chauncey nor Rip were going off so he was running a lineup geared toward scoring (with TP and NVE on the floor) for long stretches.

Since when did Pop know anything about scoring?

They scored sixty something last night.

[birdy219]

I am as disgusted as the rest of you. :bang But remember how long it took us to accept Horry? We just plain stunk up the joint last night. :throwupsp
I am trying to be patient with my beloved Spurs and with Nick and Mike but it's hard after the mess I witnessed last night. :rolleyes

Oh well, Go Spurs Go!!!

[spurschick]

All in all, I think that Finley and VanX have adapted pretty well in a very short period of time. They've only been playing with this team for 3 months and everyone is still getting used to each other. Last night was just bizarre.

[Spurologist]

You can say they do this and that, but the fact is that they were brought in help the spurs get the edge over the top teams in the league (psitons, pistons, pistons). Like many, they both didn't pack their balls.

I don't give a .... what they do, they just need to do more. If finley/vanx need a jumper to get them going, pop should run some sets for open shots for them. All finley did was jack up a contested jumper all night (fading away or getting the ball wating and then jacking up a shot). Vanx ran up the court in a critical possession on the fast break and just jacked up a three with no offensive rebounding (we would have got the rebound anyway, pathetic). I understand if Vanx is on fire or when the clock is running down but come on. That is white chocolate material.

Vanx and Fin. Do more and shut me up, please.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I liked that Three by Van Exel, and I will defend his actions on that play.

If he makes it we have 5x more people S'ing his D for that courageous play. At least he had some god damn balls.

[ALVAREZ6]

All finley did was jack up a contested jumper all night (fading away or getting the ball wating and then jacking up a shot).
That's all he's done all season.

[Spurologist]

That's all he's done all season.

I'm not implying that. Please read. I am simply stating a fact of the game.

[ALVAREZ6]

I'm not implying that. Please read. I am simply stating a fact of the game.
No shit, I am simply stating a fact of this season.

[Spurologist]

No shit, I am simply stating a fact of this season.

He's not done. I don't give a shit what he does. He needs to and will make some shots. At least he's not being a pussy like a barry and passing up jumpers.

[ALVAREZ6]

He's not done. I don't give a shit what he does. He needs to and will make some shots. At least he's not being a pussy like a barry and passing up jumpers.
:wtf

Where are you pulling this from??

All I said was that Finley has been taking forced, fade-aways all season.....that's it.

[Spurologist]

:wtf

Where are you pulling this from??

All I said was that Finley has been taking forced, fade-aways all season.....that's it.

I misread it. I thought you said 'that's it. He's done for the season.' I read it too fast that's all.


taking forced, fade-aways all season

:tu

[ALVAREZ6]

I misread it. I thought you said 'that's it. He's done for the season.' I read it too fast that's all.



:tu
That explains it, you got me confused there....

[Edwardo]

Seems to me Van Excel is over wieght and Finley is playing too many mins? Maybe Pop thinks he can be harder on TD,Parker, and Manu because he has been there daddy for like 3-4 years. So he bosses them around like little punks and they except it with a smile ans say it is what is best for the team. Everybody is the world knows Manu off the bench is not best for the team.

[spurschick]

I have a serious question... how do we know for sure that Finley won't be effective off the bench?

Here is my logic (and I use that word loosely):
Finley came off the bench the first few weeks of the season. I can't judge him, or anyone else really, during that time as they were shaking the dust off and playing with a new team and new system.

Manu goes down with an injury, so Finley starts. He seems to do well, at first. Then Manu came back. As Manu's minutes and confidence have increased, Finley's numbers have started to go down. (Coincedence? Not sure. I'll let some amateur psychologists take a stab at that one.)

Since, IMO, it's not fair to judge Finley on his play in the first 5-6 weeks of the season, how do we know that he won't be able to give us something off the bench?

[ChumpDumper]

Since, IMO, it's not fair to judge Finley on his play in the first 5-6 weeks of the season, how do we know that he won't be able to give us something off the bench?One would think that either he or Barry would be able to give us something off the bench, right?

We live in hope.

[z0sa]

All I know is that Finley has not showed up to play in any game, more or less. The very first game against Denver, I felt like he wanted to show something. Since then, its been a long drop downhill. NVE has been doing good, he just needs to hit the shots that almost go in.

[boutons_]

"NVE has been doing good, he just needs to hit the shots"

Nick has shot essentially 40% his whole career. ie, he's simply not a very good shooter.

Whether he's taking good or bad shots, or too early, or too few/many, he's still shooting 40% as a Spur. His best year was only 42%, 10 years ago.

One can't expect Nick to do anything more except what you've seen so far.

Michael and Brent, however, are shooting -5% vs their career avg.

[Peter]

Finley's game has not meshed well in SA. It's not really a matter of effort.

[wildbill2u]

Tim is also taking really bad shots...


Last night, one of his first attempts was his usual bank shot which never goes in anymore, and he missed. He tries the same shot again, missed. Later in the game, same shot....way off.

Why is Tim missing his signature shot so much, 2 years ago that shot was automatic.

I think this deserves a thread of its own. I've noticed the drop off in TDs accuracy on his bank shots as well.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Still only january...will be concerned if they stilll can't figure out how to jump for them rebounds come MARCH.... :spin

[wildbill2u]

It is about rest. The NBA season is long as hell man..
Re-Watch Phoenix tapes from last season. These people are only human...They can't perform like this forever.
It's called fatigue.

No doubt yall got talent, that is a given...I'm not arguing about that.

If you see nothing wrong with it then cool--I sincerely hope Flip sees nothing wrong with it either. I pray he doesn't. Cuz ya'll are in for a rude awakening come playoff time if the starters keep this playing time up.

Bullshit about rest. Back in the days when teams ran the ball up and down the court and regularly scored over 110 points, the starters usually averaged 35-40 minutes a game--and demanded those minutes.

Hell, we used to get free hamburgers if the team went over 130 points. Bwahahahahahaha. Those days are gone.

Games nowadays, with the emphasis on defense, look like paint drying. Not bad basketball, but not very physically demanding either.

[wildbill2u]

Pop limited Bruce's minutes (25?) because neither Chauncey nor Rip were going off so he was running a lineup geared toward scoring (with TP and NVE on the floor) for long stretches.

Well, that certainly worked out well.

[ALVAREZ6]

I think this deserves a thread of its own. I've noticed the drop off in TDs accuracy on his bank shots as well.
Yeah' it's weird, considering that it's his signature shot, he should making some more...I mean a lot of times he's way off.

[td4mvp21]

All in all, I think that Finley and VanX have adapted pretty well in a very short period of time. They've only been playing with this team for 3 months and everyone is still getting used to each other. Last night was just bizarre.

It was bizarre. I couldn't remember whether it was a dream when i woke up the next morning.

Lol, ok so you all really don't care.

[1Parker1]

The argument that Pistons starting 5 are playing too many minutes which will hurt them later on is weak. First off, yes they are averaging more minutes than the Spurs starting 5...but not by that much. Secondly, Pistons are too experiences, too driven, and have too much fire in them to ever get "tired" in the postseason the way some people are implying. Yes, it may hurt them a little, but def not so much that it'll be a factor in their success. I see only two things stopping the Pistons right now: An injury to one of their starting 5, or the Spurs (that is, if the Spurs ever decide to get their act together and take away HC).

[ALVAREZ6]

Not only that, but the Pistons starting 5 aren't the type of players that get burned out or injured...they have luck in terms of not being injury prone, they stay healthy. I don't see them getting worn out in the play-offs, it's just not them. I can't really explain it, but maybe some people know what I mean.

[spurschick]

Post-Grizzlies Game: Manu starting and Finley coming off the bench looked pretty damned good where I was sitting. One game doesn't mean everything, but it's a start.