Tony Parker and offensive fouls.

[FreshPrince22]

So that's how you get your shot off against shot blockers. :rolleyes

http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/TonyPark360.jpg
http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/TXBO10201130209.jpg

Does he use that off arm all the time like that, or is this just a fluke? I noticed it on both of the pictures on his drives to the rim.

What do you guys think... Offensive foul or not?

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think that a Pistons fan should be commenting on a guard clearing out with his off arm.

Have you seen Rip play?

:lol

Tony does it sometimes, but not that much. What he does do often is travel. Manu and Tony are probably the most traveling backcourt in the league.

[ALVAREZ6]

It's hard to tell in motion, hard for refs to pick off...

[ALVAREZ6]

Tony does it sometimes, but not that much. What he does do often is travel. Manu and Tony are probably the most traveling backcourt in the league.
:lol They do travel the most and get away with it, I love it though, they are too quick for the refs to notice, it's quite funny.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

:lol They do travel the most and get away with it, I love it though, they are too quick for the refs to notice, it's quite funny.

Manu's gallop to the rim is anything but quick...

Watch Chris Paul next time the Spurs play the Hornets...

He palms the ball on every dribble, and he's a damn rook...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Manu's gallop to the rim is anything but quick...

Watch Chris Paul next time the Spurs play the Hornets...

He palms the ball on every dribble, and he's a damn rook...


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Tell me a Pistons fan did not just complain about a point guard palming the ball on every dribble....
Man, what a funny world we live in.


---
BTW what Parker is doing is not an offensive foul. People do that all the time. They even teach you to do that in like high school.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Tell me a Pistons fan did not just complain about a point guard palming the ball on every dribble....
Man, what a funny world we live in.


---
BTW what Parker is doing is not an offensive foul. People do that all the time. They even teach you to do that in like high school.

Says the guy who thinks clearing with the off arm isn't a foul...

[himat]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Tell me a Pistons fan did not just complain about a point guard palming the ball on every dribble....
Man, what a funny world we live in.


---
BTW what Parker is doing is not an offensive foul. People do that all the time. They even teach you to do that in like high school.

which piston gaurd do you think palms too much? arroyo does but thats besides it. also i don't mind tony getting points because then he doesn't get the team involved.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He's not clearing out he's holding his arm out and that is perfectly legal...

If we can see what happens in a movie and not a picture, parker isn't pushing people with his off arm (which is a foul)
He's holding his off arm outwards and keeping it there. This is also done when dribbling (and isn't a foul) and is also taugth in high school as well.

Every player does this...go find some more pics and I'm sure you can find one of every player holding his off arm to sheild himself. Do you expect players to keep their off arm flat at their sides while giong for layups or what?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

which piston gaurd do you think palms too much?


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Funniest.
Piston.
Post.
Ever.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

That's like asking which Spur flops...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

That's like asking which Spur flops...


At least this spurs fan acknowledges that. Manu was caught doing a horrible flop last night. I even laughed when they showed the replay.

A pistons fan asking me which piston palms the most? Come now. How blind can you possibly be?

[jcrod]

^^and which pistons pushes off before running through screens.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

^^After being held...

:lol

[FreshPrince22]

He's not clearing out he's holding his arm out and that is perfectly legal...

If we can see what happens in a movie and not a picture, parker isn't pushing people with his off arm (which is a foul)
He's holding his off arm outwards and keeping it there. This is also done when dribbling (and isn't a foul) and is also taugth in high school as well.

Every player does this...go find some more pics and I'm sure you can find one of every player holding his off arm to sheild himself. Do you expect players to keep their off arm flat at their sides while giong for layups or what?

I think it's pretty obvious in both of those pictures that he is extending his arm. And yes, there are other players that do it sometimes, but I was looking through post game pics and I noticed it on both of the pictures with Tony in the lane by a big man. Seemed like a little bit more than a coincidence.

As for "palming". Yea, Chauncey gets away with it once in a while, but so does every player in the league (manu does it a lot). But the offensive player hardly gets an edge by a little messed up dribble compared to shoving away a shot blocker's hand.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What rip does is okay, so is him "being held"

It's all incidental.

[himat]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLO

Funniest.
Piston.
Post.
Ever.

just answer my question, what is it with you man?

[FreshPrince22]

^^and which pistons pushes off before running through screens.

Rip gets a TON of contact running through those screen. His defenders ALWAYS grab on to his jersey. But they can't call it on every possession, so they just give a little on both sides. Trust me, he gets called for it usually about once a game. He just doesn't much against Bowen, because bowen is constantly grabbing and bumping.

Remember this in the finals?
http://www.icicom.up.pt/blog/quarto-arbitro/arquivos/ric%20hamilton.jpg
and there was no call. Bowen is a great defender, but he uses what refs let him do.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

just answer my question, what is it with you man?


Are you serious??? Are you the occasional Pistons fan or do you watch every game? Even then...

Are you seriously serious??

Dude, Chauncy Billups is incapable of not-palming the ball...he even palmed the ball in his fucking commercial..

He fucking palms the ball when he dribbles in place
Its like he knows no other way to dribble...How long do you think Chauncy Billups would last playing on the Olympic team? He'd look like a retard or a little kid out there

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

How long do you think Chauncy Billups would last playing on the Olympic team? He'd look like a retard or a little kid out there

You mean next to the guys that can't hit FTs or travel on every drive? He'd fit in perfect IMO...

[himat]

Are you serious??? Are you the occasional Pistons fan or do you watch every game? Even then...

Are you seriously serious??

Dude, Chauncy Billups is incapable of not-palming the ball...he even palmed the ball in his fucking commercial..

He fucking palms the ball when he dribbles in place
Its like he knows no other way to dribble...How long do you think Chauncy Billups would last playing on the Olympic team? He'd look like a retard or a little kid out there

i don't see anyone else complaining about it what do you have against him and the pistons. you do have some class don't you? players get away with palming and traveling a lot. chauncey averages vewry very low TO's and that's what i care about.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You mean next to the guys that can't hit FTs or travel on every drive? He'd fit in perfect IMO...


Watch Billups dribble the ball in place next Pistons game.
Just watch his hand, and the ball. It's travelling. Text book palming the ball.

You can't do the shit that he does without travelling. Maybe his hands are so gigantic that it's impossible for him to dribble any other way...but its still travelling.

I just start cussing and get angry at it cuz I still don't understand why he finds it necessary to do it for dribbling in place, and stuff like that. It's ridiculous.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

i don't see anyone else complaining about it what do you have against him and the pistons. you do have some class don't you? players get away with palming and traveling a lot. chauncey averages vewry very low TO's and that's what i care about.


Ummm...actually alot of people have called chauncy out for that...

Maybe not on TNT and ESPN, but sports radio rings the bell.

I realize nba players travel, but Chauncey is no. 1 traveller in the entire league in my opinion.
Just watch him closely next game. It's impossible to do those long slow dribbles he does without palming the ball.

Before game 1 last season the WOAI guys talked for like 5 mintues about how Chauncey gets away with that more than any other player in the league.

[FreshPrince22]

Are you serious??? Are you the occasional Pistons fan or do you watch every game? Even then...

Are you seriously serious??

Dude, Chauncy Billups is incapable of not-palming the ball...he even palmed the ball in his fucking commercial..

He fucking palms the ball when he dribbles in place
Its like he knows no other way to dribble...How long do you think Chauncy Billups would last playing on the Olympic team? He'd look like a retard or a little kid out there

Every player brings their hand under the ball on every dribble. Some to a different extent. Refs just don't call it all the time on Chauncey because it doesn't give him an advantage. There is certain amount of time you have to have your hand under the ball in order for it to be called. However, if he uses it to his advantage, then he does get called.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's stupid to argue about Chauncey's dribbling--He's been getting away with it for years and will continue to. I've gotten used to it.
I just think its stupid to not even acknowledge that his dribbling mechanics are significantly different than most other point guards' in the league.

Then to call out Parker for using his offhand to sheild defenders?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Every player brings their hand under the ball on every dribble. Some to a different extent. Refs just don't call it all the time on Chauncey because it doesn't give him an advantage. There is certain amount of time you have to have your hand under the ball in order for it to be called.


When you can make 2 stutter steps then change direction then take another long step with the ball not touching the floor once, I'd say that's a pretty good advantage.
But its pointless...I don't give a shit any more that he gets away with it I just think that any spectator should easily see that he travels more than any toher guard out there

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Watch Billups dribble the ball in place next Pistons game.
Just watch his hand, and the ball. It's travelling. Text book palming the ball.

You can't do the shit that he does without travelling. Maybe his hands are so gigantic that it's impossible for him to dribble any other way...but its still travelling.

I just start cussing and get angry at it cuz I still don't understand why he finds it necessary to do it for dribbling in place, and stuff like that. It's ridiculous.

Same reason why Rip and Tony travel, Ben and Manu flop, Bowen clutches and grabs; they get away with it...

I don't understand why the refs don't call traveling or palming anymore. Why did they stop?

[BigVee]

It is actually stupid to argue about any of this. A foul, a flop, a carry...it is whatever the ref calls. Some are right some are wrong, whatever. Parker may at times throw his arm out, but he often get knocked on his ass with no whistle so it goes both ways....

[FreshPrince22]

Then to call out Parker for using his offhand to sheild defenders?

One gives you a clear advantage, the other doesn't. Again, they only call the palming when it gives the player an advantage.

And I watch Pistons games on league pass (so about 50% are opposing team's play-by-play guys), and I have NEVER heard them mention it once in the last 3 years.

[SpursWoman]

Watch Chris Paul next time the Spurs play the Hornets...




We noticed it the last game .... I had to slip a Flexeril in my SO's iced tea he was getting so pissed about it. :lol

[himat]

It's stupid to argue about Chauncey's dribbling--He's been getting away with it for years and will continue to. I've gotten used to it.
I just think its stupid to not even acknowledge that his dribbling mechanics are significantly different than most other point guards' in the league.

Then to call out Parker for using his offhand to sheild defenders?

i nevr even thought that was offensive. surely if raasheed doesn't complain it's definantly not a foul. all i care about chauncey is that he handles the ball well and he doesn't turn the ball over. except for the person who created this thread no other poster thought it was a big deal.

[FreshPrince22]

i nevr even thought that was offensive. surely if raasheed doesn't complain it's definantly not a foul. all i care about chauncey is that he handles the ball well and he doesn't turn the ball over. except for the person who created this thread no other poster thought it was a big deal.

How did you not know that was a foul? You think a player is allowed to shove off a defender in the paint? If so, there would be no shot blockers in the league. It makes them useless. Sheed complains about that call more than any. He was just on good behavior last night because we were destroying them, so the calls didn't matter. Next time you watch a Pistons game look for it. Watch for someone making a layup near him that you think he probably should have blocked. He'll do the "off-arm" motion toward the ref and yell "offense! offense!" Trust me, it's the most inconsistant call in the NBA.

[Kori Ellis]

Of course it's a foul if someone actually pushes with their off arm. What I'm saying is that I watch the Spurs a lot and Tony doesn't do it much. Rip on the other hand might lead the league in it. Maybe that's why Rasheed is so familiar with it :lol

[T Park]

The Pistons have the most moving picks of ANY team I have ever seen.

We can go all day if we wanna nitpick.

[JamStone]

Chauncey Billups often uses his elbow/forearm to push off defenders when he dribbles up the court.

Rip Hamilton travels A LOT.

Damn near all NBA point guards palm or carry the basketball in some form when they dribble.

Where's the controversy? Players bend the rules. Players break the rules when they can get away with it. Tony Parker isn't the first point guard to use his off-arm to clear a defender from blocking his shot. I guarantee you he won't be the last.

[Marklar MM]

Hamilton travels the most in the NBA. Every time he touches the ball and stands in place, he moves at least a foot in either direction just by shuffling his feet. Averages about 6 foot shuffles.

Anyone remember that Francis dunk on the Pistons from last season. :) I cannot believe they did not call it a travel...it was so blatant.