Buck Harvey: Hill's back as he left — clueless

[Solid D]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA011506.1C.COL.BKNharvey.hill.34112e0.html

Web Posted: 01/15/2006 12:00 AM CST

San Antonio Express-News

Give Bob Hill everything.

Yes, he shouldn't have been fired on the day David Robinson returned from injury. Yes, Gregg Popovich wanted to coach the Spurs. Yes, Hill did a decent job when he was here.

Give him everything.

So why did it take nine years before another NBA franchise let him be a head coach again?

Why?

Give him time to talk, and he will make everything clear.

Hill has been talking this month. He took over for Bob Weiss in Seattle after 30 games (that firing wasn't unfair, was it?), and he went straight to the podium to rehash the terrible injustice done to him long ago.

"It's like Coach (Bob) Knight told me," Hill said to a Seattle newspaper when asked about Popovich. "If you stay in this game long enough, you are going to run into people like that."

Give Hill that, too. Popovich isn't easy to work for.

But Popovich also is the one who gave Hill a break in 1994 when no one else did. Larry Brown, among others, told Popovich not to hire Hill, and Popovich delayed making his decision through most of that summer.

Hill had no choice but to wait. The only other team that showed interest in Hill, then an Orlando assistant, was 20-win Minnesota. A coach named Bill Blair got the Timberwolves' job; Blair lost it a year later and never got another chance.

Hill appealed to Popovich, perhaps, because Popovich wanted someone he could oversee. Popovich selected the assistant coaches and put the model in place because, as he has shown, he likes to run the business.

There was success, with seasons of 62 and 59 wins. But was Hill a great coach? He inherited a 55-win team. Hill also is 121-43 in his NBA career with Robinson and 138-173 without.

Popovich almost fired Hill immediately after Utah overwhelmed the Spurs in the 1996 playoffs. Popovich cared more about defense and playoff toughness than regular-season show.

Hill was baffled. Wasn't it time for a contract extension?

Popovich pulled back, hoping for change. But Hill remained a detail-oriented technician who liked to do the work himself. The cooperative workplace that Popovich has created — where he wants his people to argue and disagree — never suited Hill.

Then Robinson's back went out, skewing everything. Hill's philosophy ate at Popovich more than the losses did, until Popovich made the worst decision of his career. He fired Hill on the day Robinson returned from injury.

Had Popovich waited a month — letting Hill go after a four-game losing streak — no one would have said a thing. But this way Hill became a martyr. The guy mostly known in San Antonio for wearing expensive suits suddenly was beloved.

Hill played to the sentiment. In his mind he was simply too good to be fired, when Hill has taken over three times in midseason the same way. In fact, every franchise but two has replaced its coach at least once since 1996.

The two? Utah and San Antonio.

So nearly every team could have had the magnificent Hill in these nine years. He instead stayed out of the league, and Hill has an explanation.

He told Seattle reporters this month that he was so "taken aback" by being fired that he "wanted a break" from basketball.

That's rich. When the Spurs fired Hill, he thought an assistant's position was beneath him. He would wait for the better jobs. Why coach a loser?

When it was clear no one was calling, Hill stopped being picky. He would have taken anything, anywhere and at any price. Hill's agent called one franchise so often in the late '90s that he was asked to stop. "Pestering" is the word the franchise used.

Then there's this from Shaquille O'Neal. Before the Lakers hired Phil Jackson to replace Kurt Rambis in 1999, Shaq thought Hill would be a good fit. The two were together in Orlando.

"But Jerry (West) didn't like Bob Hill," Shaq wrote in a book. "For some reason, nobody likes Bob Hill."

For some reason? Fordham knows one. The school stretched to give Hill a 10-year deal in 1999, and Hill later led the school to its worst record in 100 years.

He was fired. Only when Hill went back to New York recently with the Sonics, speaking again with the authority of a big-time NBA coach, could he properly frame this.

He blamed himself for taking the job. "I don't want to embarrass the school," Hill said about Fordham. "But it's never going to work there. The pace of the school is slow and you can't run a Division I program like that."

Exactly who should be embarrassed? Fordham has beaten Virginia and Penn this season, among others, and is competing like a Division I program.

But that's Hill. His opinion of himself has alienated peers and employers, and another opinion will have the same effect. He thinks if he had stayed in San Antonio and gotten Tim Duncan, "I would still be there."

He would have connected with Duncan and prompted him to re-sign with the Spurs? He would have brought the best out in a kid from France and plugged into an Argentine power? He would have won three titles?

If other teams thought that, they would have hired him long ago.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]

[freemeat]

3 quick matters of opinion...

1 -- I agree with Buck Harvey on one thing: Pop is a great coach.

2 -- Just because you like Pop doesn't mean you have to start talking shit about a guy who felt disrespected by him. Hill may not be one of the best in the business (which will be shown as the Sonics never gain the momentum they had last season), but this article completely rips him.

3 -- Buck Harvey is a douche bag. He is a deicated Spurs fan, yes, I give him that. But consider this: Bill O'Reilly is a dedicated Republican. Both are terrible journalists because they only speak to promote their opinions, not fact.

[Brutalis]

http://www.prodevelopmentcamp.com/images/campphoto2.jpg

http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/bob_hill.jpg

[Bloodline666]

This article shows the REAL Bob Hill...A lousy excuse for a basketball coach

[polandprzem]

Is that cool enough?

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060114/capt.wajf11101140635.heat_supersonics_basketball_w ajf111.jpg

[Brutalis]

Bob Hill is a retard. That's all I got to say. I give him 6 months with Seattle.

[pjjrfan]

Ohhhhhh, this is a cold article. What's up with the topic, are we playing Seattle any time soon, or maybe Buck just woke up from a bad Bob Hill nightmare? I always thought Hill was an ok coach, to this day, I still think if Sean makes his ft's against the Rockets this team makes it to the finals. But it didn't happen Sean went to the line, to tight, and he missed both. The team played the rest of the series too tight, looking to lose more than to win. And I think this came from Hill who to me looked like he always had something stuck up his you know what when he talked. He always came across as someone who was bothered by any question or remark made about the team. And as tough as he tried to act, he couldn't handle Rodman, which to me was his biggest sin. I don't know if anyone remembers but after Rodman got hurt in a motorcycle accident in his return game he got a standing O, and as he hammed it up for the fans and the media, there was a story that Pop was so pissed he went into the tv truck and pulled the plug on him so that it wouldn't be carried on tv. When I read that, I became a Pop fan and knew Hill's days were numbered.

[SequSpur]

Clueless?

No, Buck Harvey is clueless, Bob Hill just got hired as an NBA Head Coach making millions of dollars. If he gets a 3 year deal for the NBA Coach minimum which is probably 2 mill/year, he is set for life....

Sounds like he is smart to me.

[Leetonidas]

Bob Hill got :owned

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

3 -- Buck Harvey is a douche bag. He is a deicated Spurs fan, yes, I give him that. But consider this: Bill O'Reilly is a dedicated Republican. Both are terrible journalists because they only speak to promote their opinions, not fact.

They're paid to be columnists, to express their opinions and to rile people up.

They write (or speak) with their set of facts available to them and craft their opinions out of them.

Did Buck lie when he wrote about what Shaq wrote? Did Buck lie about the strides the Fordham team is making without Hill? Did Buck lie about what Hill said about him still being with the team if he'd have had TD?

Obviously, Buck doesn't think that Bob Hill could have (with his thoughts on coaching/scouting, etc.) found Parker and Manu and convinced FAs to take less money to play for a championship.

Buck Harvey gets paid to observe sports under his eye with his thoughts and craft them into column inches. Buck Harvey gets paid to watch the Spurs, talk with people around the team and form his opinions based on that.

Who would you believe had more insight with regards to things that go on around the team?

Buck Harvey or SequSpur? Buck, becuase he watches the games, talks with people in the organization and quite simply has the time to research what he uses in his columns. Sequ, well, he knows about the Spurs because of what he reads as a member of SpursTalk.

Kori Ellis or me? Kori, because she watches the games, talks with people in the organization and quite simply has the time to research what she uses in her stories and commentary. Me, well, I know about the Spurs because I'm a member of SpursTalk.

I'm not saying I agree with him every single time and I'm not saying you should either, I'm simply saying that Buck Harvey (just as Kirk Bohls, Stephen A. Smith, Marc Stein, etc.) are paid to express their opinions.

And they get paid because more people would like to know their opinions, obviously prompting discussions such as the one here.

[SequSpur]

Is Buck Harvey your Dad or something?

I long for the day when the Express News or any local media station here hires a real sports columnist or sportscaster with balls.

They only express their views and opinions after it goes through the editor.... Greg Popovich.

Oh... btw... I throw down beers with the son of the Spurs Statistician... so I know more than ya think.......... :angel

[Brutalis]

Buckback Mountain!

[ShoogarBear]

A question, mostly for Blaze, but also anyone else who cares to answer:

How much responsibility should Harvey have for attritbuting what he says? Stuff like the following seem like cheap shots if he can't back it up with sources:


Larry Brown, among others, told Popovich not to hire Hill,
.
.
.
When the Spurs fired Hill, he thought an assistant's position was beneath him. He would wait for the better jobs. Why coach a loser?
.
.
.
Hill's agent called one franchise so often in the late '90s that he was asked to stop. "Pestering" is the word the franchise used.

Especially since he seems pretty careful about using quotes to make his other points.

Seems to me that Harvey (who I like and respect) just did to Hill what Kevin O'Keefe used to do to Popovich.

[Solid D]

There are many aspects of this article that were also discussed and recalled in the Bob Hill thread a week or so ago. It was a Sonic Blast by Buck, however.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Talk about a pathetic hatchet job. I like Harvey most of the time but this looks like nothing but a page full of slander and cheap shots. And for what?

I guess this does fit the M.O. for the Spurs - get the local hack to divert attention attention away from your rebounding problems, offensive problems, and the puzzling decision to run with Rasho instead of Nazr as your starter.

Unless Harvey can back all this up it seems Hill would have good grounds for a defamation suit.

[SequSpur]

Players win championships. Pop gets a little credit, mostly for Manu and Parker, but without Duncan this team is still in the lottery year after year....

Back then Pop was barely even thought about, in fact he got the job because the Spurs had blown their money on Lucas and Tarkanian, so Pop was the smart economical choice and he has done well.

When Hill was fired it was pretty weak but he still got paid, he could've been back in the NBA as an assistant and worked his way up again but he didn't.

Fordham sucks anyway, so wgaf.

So now the haters are out in full because Hill has another multimillion dollar job while Harvey is still blowing his editor for minimum wage.

Big fucking deal, Harvey is a tool.

[ChumpDumper]

Unless Harvey can back all this up it seems Hill would have good grounds for a defamation suit.I doubt he'd publish it otherwise.

Look, Fordham went 4-24 Bob's last season there, and two of those wins came by forfeiture because a school used an ineligible player. The guy loses his players -- it's not like it hasn't happened before.

[SequSpur]

I doubt he'd publish it otherwise.

Look, Fordham went 4-24 Bob's last season there, and two of those wins came by forfeiture because a school used an ineligible player. The guy loses his players -- it's not like it hasn't happened before.

Fordham = San Antonio College.

WGAF...

[ChumpDumper]

WGAF...The guys who are paying Hill to not coach there.

[SequSpur]

So Hill is still getting paid by Fordham????? :lmao

Dude is a genius!

[ChumpDumper]

Dude is a genius!Sure, just not a good head coach.

[exstatic]

Bob Hill:

GET THE FUCK OVER IT.
(the green is for your obvious envy)

If some of you consider this an attack, WTF was Hill's little diatribe immediately after being hired?

Bob Hill will be fired from the Sonics, and it will be sooner than later.

[Rummpd]

I also dislike this article, not only is it inflammotory, the timing in strange. Why not wait until after Hill gets run out by the Sonics or does terribly for an extended stretch.

What happens if they have a miracle turn around?

[exstatic]

1. Why is the timing strange? Hill already launched his attack. This is a rebuttal piece.
2. They won't turn it around. This is Bob Hill we are talking about.

[Das Texan]

Ya I mean its not like Bob Hill didnt have that little dog and pony show when he got hired as the head man in Seattle.


Hill is a funny guy, he is like that slimy used car salesman that will do whatever it takes for him to come out ahead in some way.

[Samr]

Big fucking deal, Harvey is a tool.

You did get that part right, but the example you used in your reasoning was rediculous.

This article was hilarious, and I think it's awsome that Harvey took full advantage of the power he was given as a columnist.

Harvey is doing what any columnist in San Antonio should do- we are a one-horse town so everyone, EVERYONE, is going to be biased. And being that Harvey is, for the most part, a columnist in a one-horse beat, he is EXPECTED to be biased as well.

[Kori Ellis]

Harvey is an opinion columnist. He's not the beat writer (Ludden) or NBA columnist (Monroe) -- their job is to report. Harvey's job is to give his opinion.

[SequSpur]

1. Why is the timing strange? Hill already launched his attack. This is a rebuttal piece.
2. They won't turn it around. This is Bob Hill we are talking about.

Seattle would lose right now with Phil Jackson as the head coach and his assistants were Greg Popovich, Pat Riley, Mike Krycewski, Bob Knight, and Avery Johnson.

STFU.

[Samr]

Harvey is an opinion columnist. He's not the beat writer

I guess I didn't clarify the context of that.

beat- n. The area regularly covered by a reporter, a police officer, or a sentry

I meant that he was the only Spurs opinion columnist- or at least the only one who strictly writes opinion pieces- and as such his bias is going to be more extreme. If the EN had another Spurs opinion columnist and let the two play off eachother, then Harvey wouldn't take the beating he has been (in this thread) from guys who argue the other side of the fence.

[Kori Ellis]

I guess I didn't clarify the context of that.

beat- n. The area regularly covered by a reporter, a police officer, or a sentry

I meant that he was the only Spurs opinion columnist- or at least the only one who strictly writes opinion pieces- and as such his bias is going to be more extreme. If the EN had another Spurs opinion columnist and let the two play off eachother, then Harvey wouldn't take the beating he has been (in this thread) from guys who argue the other side of the fence.

Yeah I was really directing my post at the couple posters earlier that were complaining that Harvey was stating opinions rather than reporting facts.

It's his job to state opinions.

[exstatic]

Seattle would lose right now with Phil Jackson as the head coach and his assistants were Greg Popovich, Pat Riley, Mike Krycewski, Bob Knight, and Avery Johnson.

STFU.
Which explans why Hill got the job in the first place. No point in wasting money on a REAL coach, now, is there? Glad to see you're finally getting it, short stuff. :lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Oh... btw... I throw down beers with the son of the Spurs Statistician... so I know more than ya think.......... :angel

And I hang with Kori and LJ Ellis....so what.

I talk nightly with the Mavericks statistician, the Cowboys statistician, the 2006 Cotton Bowl statistician, the Dallas Desperados statisician and the Fort Worth Flyers statisician (all the same person).

That doesn't make me anymore knowledgable about the inner workings of those teams' locker rooms/GM rooms.

Go make dinner, short stuff.

[ChumpDumper]

Sequ learned they Spurs don't set picks for Parker from the second cousin of the cotton candy hawker.

[SequSpur]

And I hang with Kori and LJ Ellis....so what.

I talk nightly with the Mavericks statistician, the Cowboys statistician, the 2006 Cotton Bowl statistician, the Dallas Desperados statisician and the Fort Worth Flyers statisician (all the same person).

That doesn't make me anymore knowledgable about the inner workings of those teams' locker rooms/GM rooms.

Go make dinner, short stuff.

Quit stereotyping then chopstick.

Most people can turn on the TV, read NBA.com and a newspaper and figure out what happens in a game, I was just pulling your chain egg roll.

Last time I checked registering for an internet forum didn't involve obtaining a masters degree in hoopology suzuki samari.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Shoog and others,

There are a number of privileges when it comes to libel claims (which this is since it is written, not spoken, which is slander).

One of them is the opinion privilege.



The rationale behind the opinion privilege is that only statements that can be proven true or false are capable of defamtory meaning and that statements of opinion cannot, by their nature, be proven true or false.


So if I were to say "Buck Harvey is a mean person for writing that column about Bob Hill," that is my opinion and can't be proven true or false since my definition of mean might be different for others and then, can't be a statement of fact.

The offending statements also have to be defamatory in nature.

Buck would also have to knowingly write what he knows to be false as well as cause harm to Hill for the statements.

[Guru of Nothing]

Popovich almost fired Hill immediately after Utah overwhelmed the Spurs in the 1996 playoffs. Popovich cared more about defense and playoff toughness than regular-season show.

Just a guess, but most of the folks blasting Buck Harvey have no recollection of the 1996 playoffs. As a fan, I was seething at the way Hill was outcoached in those playoffs against Utah.

At the very worst, Pop is guilty of bad timing, although I would argue that the longer he waited to fire Hill, the worse the timing.

Had Hill remained to coach the Spurs after Duncan was drafted, I'd be surprised to know that the Spurs would have ever won a title. 1999 perhaps, but no way could Hill coach a team past the Lakers in 2003 or Detroit in 2005.

[SequSpur]

Look, Harvey is just a hater. The Spurs have won 3 championships since then and everything here just smells like roses.

I would rather see columnists write articles about Pop's reasons for starting Finley when he should be starting Manu and vice versa regarding Nazr and Rasho...

or why is Beno still on the team or why Holt refuses to fill the other 2 spots, etc. etc..

Hell Timvp should have that job.

Buck Harvey is a waste of column space.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Quit stereotyping then chopstick.

Most people can turn on the TV, read NBA.com and a newspaper and figure out what happens in a game, I was just pulling your chain egg roll.

Last time I checked registering for an internet forum didn't involve obtaining a masters degree in hoopology suzuki samari.

The point is (and was made before) that Buck, like Kori, would have more knowledge of the inner workings and goings-on of the team since they are around them on a more consistent basis.

When I want information about the Spurs (that allows me to take in as many thoughts as possible and form my OWN OPINIONS), I go to them.

When I want information about being bald and short (that allows me to take in as many thoughts as possible and form my OWN OPINIONS), I'll come to you.

Tell me, Kevin, how many practices have you attended this season? How many times have you observed the locker room before and after a game? How many times have you shot the shit with Pop or TD when the mics are put away and the cameras off? Then your "knowledge" and "insight" of the Spurs are as limited as mine are.

Oh, but I forgot, you slang some Natty Light with the statistician. So tell us, what's the latest deal on the table to get some help in the frontcourt?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Hell Timvp should have that job.

I don't disagree with you there.

LJ's knowledge of the game and stlye in his writing would be a welcome opinion.

[FromWayDowntown]

The offending statements also have to be defamatory in nature.

Buck would also have to knowingly write what he knows to be false as well as cause harm to Hill for the statements.

That would be the toughest part of proving defamation as a legal matter -- Hill would arguably qualify as a public figure, which, IIRC, means that he can prevail only if he could prove that Harvey wrote defamatory statements and did so with actual malice.

It's the principle that got Larry Flynt off the hook when he published a parody suggesting that Jerry Falwell's first time was an incestuous fling in an outhouse.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

That would be the toughest part of proving defamation as a legal matter -- Hill would arguably qualify as a public figure, which, IIRC, means that he can prevail only if he could prove that Harvey wrote defamatory statements and did so with actual malice.

It's the principle that got Larry Flynt off the hook when he published a parody suggesting that Jerry Falwell's first time was an incestuous fling in an outhouse.

Exactly.

I also believe the secondary part that got Flynt off was that it was satirical.

[SequSpur]

What is there to know? It's laid out right on the table for all to see.

Duncan hurt, Manu wants to start, Nazr is obviously in the dog house..........

Dude, there isn't any info that I really want to know... no one wants Rasho, Beno, Barry, Nazr or PJ Carlesimo, so what does it matter?

The only trade that will happen is if Bruce and Finley are involved. Most of you are trying to trade Rasho for a hall of famer which doesn't work.

The Spurs still can't score, so what insight is there on that? They play defense.. have done so for the Pop era.

I could careless about their personal lives, because mine is more important.

So tell me, what is attending practice going to do for anyone? Nothing is going on.

There are a few posters in here that are very good friends with Devin Brown. Do you want their insight?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

What is there to know? It's laid out right on the table for all to see.

Duncan hurt, Manu wants to start, Nazr is obviously in the dog house..........

Dude, there isn't any info that I really want to know... no one wants Rasho, Beno, Barry, Nazr or PJ Carlesimo, so what does it matter?

The only trade that will happen is if Bruce and Finley are involved. Most of you are trying to trade Rasho for a hall of famer which doesn't work.

The Spurs still can't score, so what insight is there on that? They play defense.. have done so for the Pop era.

I could careless about their personal lives, because mine is more important.

So tell me, what is attending practice going to do for anyone? Nothing is going on.


Except this discussion was predicated on Buck's column about Bob Hill, which is strange since you also said THE EXACT SAME THING BUCK DID ABOUT BOB HILL NOT WANTING TO BE AN ASSISTANT.



There are a few posters in here that are very good friends with Devin Brown. Do you want their insight?

Let's see, when I need to know what's going on with Devin, who do I talk to first? His friends or a guy who once screamed out Hedo Turkoglu's name at a GTG?

I guarantee they'd probably be better equipped to give me information about Devin Brown than you would.

[FromWayDowntown]

Exactly.

I also believe the secondary part that got Flynt off was that it was satirical.

True, but New York Times v. Sullivan provides the principle that public figures have diminished rights when it comes to printed materials and can prove defamation (or any related tort) only by showing actual malice by the writer/publisher.

As for Buck's position in the column, I don't see anything that is off base in his assessments. Bob Hill has been a crappy coach other than a 2 year run where he had David Robinson. More than that, though, people apparently don't like Bob Hill -- for whatever reason.

My guess is that Hill's unpopular because he's far too willing to throw the people around him under the bus when things go wrong -- that he's wholly unwilling to accept personal responsibility for his failures. Look at his thoughts about Fordham: he just says that the school won't ever win, deflecting any responsibility from himself for the failures there. But last year, they were 13-16 and went 8-8 in their conference. It may be a small school, (it's not as if it's some community college) but so is Duke. Fordham is big enough that it plays in the Atlantic 10. It's not as if it's in podunk either -- the main campus is in Bronx.

He's still blaming Popovich, too, instead of accepting the possibility that his firing in San Antonio was warranted given the horrendous playoff flameouts in 1995 and 1996. The absence of David Robinson in early 1996-97 just exposed the truth that Hill's success was almost entirely a product of David's greatness. You can say that the same is true of Popovich, and I doubt that Pop would deny it, but Pop has also put some pelts on the wall and managed to reach the summit with his superstar.

[SequSpur]

I guarantee they'd probably be better equipped to give me information about Devin Brown than you would.

Obviously, you don't have a clue.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Obviously, you don't have a clue.

I didn't realize you were Devin Brown.

See, when I assign a story to a reporter. I ask them to speak with people who would actually know about the situation in question, not just random people off the street.

Another thing...why don't you stop being a little bitch and tell the person who the E-N cares about what he thinks rather than me about writing a column about the rebounding or Manu/Finley.

[email protected]

[SequSpur]

This article wasn't deflamation.

Most people in SA that picked up today's paper probably don't give a shit about Bob Hill, in fact probably all of them don't except for his neighbors.

All of the things that are going on in the Sportsworld and this dipshit writes a column on Bob Hill on a Sunday, the biggest circulation day of the week.

That's what you call a tool....

How about an article on Michelle Wie missing another cut when she hasn't won on her own tour?????????

How about San Diego owning Harberger????

How about the fall of the Patriots?

but no..... an article on Bob Hill, an employed millionaire head coach in the NBA who is still gettting paid by a Division 1 College... lmao.

[SequSpur]

I didn't realize you were Devin Brown.

See, when I assign a story to a reporter. I ask them to speak with people who would actually know about the situation in question, not just random people off the street.

Another thing...why don't you stop being a little bitch and tell the person who the E-N cares about what he thinks rather than me about writing a column about the rebounding or Manu/Finley.

[email protected]


you really are a waste of time.....

I'll leave that to you because you probably emailed the topic like a whining bitch.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

This article wasn't deflamation.

Most people in SA that picked up today's paper probably don't give a shit about Bob Hill, in fact probably all of them don't except for his neighbors.



But they care about Michelle Wie?

I'm going to take a wild guess here and say more people in the E-N's circ area care about the Spurs than the PGA/LPGA.

I have to remind my own columnists many times that less people probably GAF about what a college student thinks about President Bush than care about what they think about allegations of police brutality on the Texas State campus.

Also, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Buck has a deadline of sometime before last night's game was over.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

you really are a waste of time.....

I'll leave that to you because you probably emailed the topic like a whining bitch.

Put up or shut up, you little pussy.

Stop bitching to me (who doesn't have the column inches of a Buck Harvey) and write to Buck Harvey (who actually does the writing you care so much about).

Don't take your football and go home.

I knew you were short and bitter, but I never thought you were a pussy who couldn't hold a legitimate debate until now.

[SequSpur]

Put up or shut up, you little pussy.

Stop bitching to me (who doesn't have the column inches of a Buck Harvey) and write to Buck Harvey (who actually does the writing you care so much about).

Don't take your football and go home.

I knew you were short and bitter, but I never thought you were a pussy who couldn't hold a legitimate debate until now.

Huh? Take some prozac or eat some fried rice or something.

[T Park]

Talk about a pathetic hatchet job. I like Harvey most of the time but this looks like nothing but a page full of slander and cheap shots. And for what?

I guess this does fit the M.O. for the Spurs - get the local hack to divert attention attention away from your rebounding problems, offensive problems, and the puzzling decision to run with Rasho instead of Nazr as your starter.

Unless Harvey can back all this up it seems Hill would have good grounds for a defamation suit.



As you can see, a bitter bitter bob hill fan/pop hater.

[T Park]

Huh? Take some prozac or eat some fried rice or something.



Typical response from shorty when he is beaten.


Im happy that Johnny refrained from blowing the short shit out of the water, after the asian references......

[sprrs]

Is Buck Harvey your Dad or something?

I long for the day when the Express News or any local media station here hires a real sports columnist or sportscaster with balls.

They only express their views and opinions after it goes through the editor.... Greg Popovich.

Oh... btw... I throw down beers with the son of the Spurs Statistician... so I know more than ya think.......... :angel

Rosen fan are ya?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

As you can see, a bitter bitter bob hill fan/pop hater.

Who's bitter? I just think we have more pressing issues than a hatchet job on a coach 3000 miles away.

Wake the fuck up. We got punked last week at home by our biggest threat to a title and the Sunday press is about the Spurs coach 9 years ago? Gotta love how the media works in SA :lol

[Guru of Nothing]

Bob Hill abjectly sucks. .... grammar check??

Please, let's find a better way to waste time.

[T Park]

Who's bitter?

The guy who "proudly" drank a beer with Hill, and has continually blasted Popovich over horrible offense, and has suggested Hill should've stayed, even though Sean Elliott, David Robinson, and Avery Johnson wanted the guy run out of town...

[ShoogarBear]

Shoog and others,

There are a number of privileges when it comes to libel claims (which this is since it is written, not spoken, which is slander).

One of them is the opinion privilege.



So if I were to say "Buck Harvey is a mean person for writing that column about Bob Hill," that is my opinion and can't be proven true or false since my definition of mean might be different for others and then, can't be a statement of fact.

The offending statements also have to be defamatory in nature.

Buck would also have to knowingly write what he knows to be false as well as cause harm to Hill for the statements.I am not asking if Harvey is being libelous. I am aware that his is an opinon column.

I am asking YOUR opinion as to whether you consider this responsible journalism. Specifically the statments that Brown told Pop not to hire Hill, and that one team asked Hill to stop calling. To me, saying those things without providing attribution or naming names walks the line.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I am not asking if Harvey is being libelous. I am aware that his is an opinon column.

I am asking YOUR opinion as to whether you consider this responsible journalism. Specifically the statments that Brown told Pop not to hire Hill, and that one team asked Hill to stop calling. To me, saying those things without providing attribution or naming names walks the line.

Personally, I wouldn't do it and do my best not to allow my people to do the same without providing attribution.

I personally believe that Buck should attribute his statements (namely, the Brown one).

[Guru of Nothing]

Personally, I wouldn't do it and do my best not to allow my people to do the same without providing attribution.

I personally believe that Buck should attribute his statements (namely, the Brown one).

But could BHarvey just be simply daring BHill to call him out?

and just maybe, on a level(s) not revealed, there is some retribution for the crap kevin o'keefe wrote about Pop back in the day.

I boldly predict there will be nary a peep from hill on this article.

[ShoogarBear]

and just maybe, on a level(s) not revealed, there is some retribution for the crap kevin o'keefe wrote about Pop back in the day.Well, this is what I was getting at. If that's the case, then that's just lame. Sports journalists (even columnists) shouldn't have hidden agendas.

[Guru of Nothing]

Well, this is what I was getting at. If that's the case, then that's just lame. Sports journalists (even columnists) shouldn't have hidden agendas.

Obviously, you hate ESPN and FoxSports.

[ShoogarBear]

Maybe what I should have said is that I don't like hidden agendas from journalists I otherwise respect. When it's from people I expect it from, it doesn't bother me.

[slayermin]

I don't have a problem with the article. Really, the difference between Pop and Bob Hill was the focus of the team. Hill was about offense, and Pop was about defense. At the time, I would say that I was confused about the Hill firing but it all worked out in the end and I will admit that Pop has surpassed all of my expectations of him.

But I do wonder if Rodman would've played as well under Pop as he did under Hill.

[Peter]

Where's Kevin O'Keefe when he's not needed?

[blaze89]

"Not only is Bob Hill losing games at a faster rate than his predecessor, Bob Weiss, but Hill might be losing the faith and trust of several players as signs of insubordination have arisen in the past few days."

Source: Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2002741329_soni15.html)

[T Park]

Jees, lost the team already??

Thats a new record......


Way to go Bobby :rollin

[Kori Ellis]

I think he's just having problems with Reggie Evans. Reggie went to a funeral and didn't call for 3 days. The Sonics benched him last night after he returned and said he was sick (apparently he wasn't). Reggie said he didn't call the team because he called his agent instead and that if the team cared they should have just called him.

So I don't know if that counts as losing the players or Reggie Evans is just being Reggie Evans.

[T Park]

If they don't want Reggie Evans, the Spurs would take him off their hands I assume.


Ginobili and Evans on the same team??

The refs heads would explode.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Let's take these one at a time...


The guy who "proudly" drank a beer with Hill

So what? Fuck, myself and a couple of friends had a couple of drinks on Bob's tab. Damn, a millionaire that everyone thinks is a stuck up prick bought a couple of college kids a couple of beers and shot the breeze about hoops with them for two hours.

Can't have that Buck Harvey bubble of Hill being a prick burst now, can we?



, and has continually blasted Popovich over horrible offense,

I also stepped up and offered Pop props after we won the title this past year. That aside, in case you hadn't fucking noticed we're an average of -20 against our biggest competition for an NBA ring this year. But yeah, what the hell am I doing saying our O sucks as usual? Wake the fuck up you P_psucker.



and has suggested Hill should've stayed

As an offensive coordinator, I don't think it would hurt. I also recognize the players wanted him gone, which is good enough reason in my eyes to can the guy. That doesn't mean I can't criticize the bullshit way it was done.

[T Park]

I also stepped up and offered Pop props after we won the title this past year

Did the same after 03, then backed off and ripped his ass again, and again, and again.


Wake the fuck up you P_psucker

temper temper


doesn't mean I can't criticize the bullshit way it was done

lol how was it bullshit.

How would you have told Avery, Robinson, and Elliott.

pretty much, the whole Chise, that, well, we have to do this firing "another way"

[T Park]

Can't have that Buck Harvey bubble of Hill being a prick burst now, can we?

If it walks like a duck....

[SpursIndonesia]

Sequ learned they Spurs don't set picks for Parker from the second cousin of the cotton candy hawker.
Another hilarious stuff from ChumpD :lol

[SequSpur]

Typical response from shorty when he is beaten.

Im happy that Johnny refrained from blowing the short shit out of the water, after the asian references......

Beaten at what? Try losing some weight, get a personality, a real job and a woman and then meet me on the same playing field fat ass.

Johnny was the first one to start with the short shit, so I felt the need and I will continue to feel the need to take note of that shit.

As far as being a pussy, according to the Johnny, this conversation was over when he mentioned me and short in the same sentence, so blow me. If he can't take it then don't use my name in vain. Pulease..........

Dude, I can go on for months running smack, haven't you learned?

Late.

[5ToolMan]

Jees, lost the team already??

Thats a new record......


Way to go Bobby :rollin

I believe it is the writer who is lost. Allen, Fortson, Vitaly and Evans were all missing. Anyone with a clue might expect the Sonics to struggle.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Beaten at what? Try losing some weight, get a personality, a real job and a woman and then meet me on the same playing field fat ass.

Johnny was the first one to start with the short shit, so I felt the need and I will continue to feel the need to take note of that shit.

As far as being a pussy, according to the Johnny, this conversation was over when he mentioned me and short in the same sentence, so blow me. If he can't take it then don't use my name in vain. Pulease..........

Dude, I can go on for months running smack, haven't you learned?

Late.

http://www.punjabkesari.com/health/health_files/crying.jpg

"But, but...he called me short!"

Like I GAF about what you say to me. I could nit-pick every word of your smack talk before I said a word to you, so don't act like you're just defending yourself.

Does it sound like I'm bitching? If it was over when I said what I said (which can be proven true, BTW), then why would you have continued to debate for 20 more posts?

But, like I said earlier, if you're just going to cut and run, you've proven yourself to be a pussy which I never thought I'd see from you.

Back to topic, would it really be necessary for BH to write a column as retribution for KO'Keefe? I think Bob Hill's rough tenure elsewhere, his coaching record since being fired from SA and his bitterness after nearly ten years would be vindication enough for anybody, much less Gregg Popovich.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't like the way Bob Hill handled and is still handling getting fired from the Spurs. Coaches get fired all the time, get over yourself.

He needs to get off Pop's back. Didn't Van Gundy get replaced by Pat Riley just when Shaq was coming off the injured list? I don't hear an uproar about how that was handled. It makes Hill look bad and I'm sure his attitude is a major factor in him not getting another chance for so long.

Hill is an ok coach, but anyone who thinks the Spurs would have been better with him as the coach the last seven years is nuts.

The Sonics will undoubtedly not reach expectations this year, and Hill won't do anything to change that. He might have had it in his head that he could do in Seattle what the Whiner did in Denver last season. The difference, though, is that Denver was an underachieving team but this year's Sonics just aren't that good.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Did the same after 03, then backed off and ripped his ass again, and again, and again.


So what, he deserved it, the offense sucks. I'm not here to suck Pop's dick like you are.



lol how was it bullshit.

How would you have told Avery, Robinson, and Elliott.


That isn't even what I was talking about you tool. Look, it wasn't exactly a secret that the players wanted Hill. I'm talking about the whole "today the Spurs announced David Robinson's return from the injured list, and also fired their HC" thing.

The timing was pathetic, and then when O'Keefe spoke up about Pop he got canned. Total bullshit.



If it walks like a duck....


Well, the 'duck' bought 4 random college guys two rounds of beers and shot the breeze about pro hoops for an hour, so he's obviously an asshole to everyone [/Tpark logic]

[T Park]

The timing was pathetic

There is never good timing.

Just because its not good for you, doesn't mean it is.

[exstatic]

I don't like the way Bob Hill handled and is still handling getting fired from the Spurs. Coaches get fired all the time, get over yourself.

He needs to get off Pop's back. Didn't Van Gundy get replaced by Pat Riley just when Shaq was coming off the injured list? I don't hear an uproar about how that was handled. It makes Hill look bad and I'm sure his attitude is a major factor in him not getting another chance for so long.

Hill is an ok coach, but anyone who thinks the Spurs would have been better with him as the coach the last seven years is nuts.

The Sonics will undoubtedly not reach expectations this year, and Hill won't do anything to change that. He might have had it in his head that he could do in Seattle what the Whiner did in Denver last season. The difference, though, is that Denver was an underachieving team but this year's Sonics just aren't that good.


Nail, head, bang. Another Chopperific take.

[ShoogarBear]

He needs to get off Pop's back. Didn't Van Gundy get replaced by Pat Riley just when Shaq was coming off the injured list? I don't hear an uproar about how that was handled.
You didn't? Well, maybe not an uproar, but there was certainly a lot of buzz.

This is an end-justfying-means, winners-write-the-history-books situation. If the Heat win the title, does that make Riley right in what he did? (assuming SVG was actually fired and didn't just "step down")

[SAtown]

What's the huge deal with Bob Hill? Why all the negativity? I've been a fan since I said my first word, over 20 years ago, and all I remember about Bob Hill was 62-20, best record in the Midwest, West, Best Record in the League, David Robinson MVP, and WCF vs the Rockettes (damn you Sean Elliot in Game 1). I was actually pissed when he got fired. I just want to know if I missed something. Thanks in advance.

[FromWayDowntown]

I just want to know if I missed something.

The 1996 Western Conference Semifinals, apparently.

[maxpower]

I don't know why, but this is what is posted ...



Beaten at what? Try losing some weight, get a personality, a real job and a woman and then meet me on the same playing field fat ass.

Johnny was the first one to start with the short shit, so I felt the need and I will continue to feel the need to take note of that shit.

As far as being a pussy, according to the Johnny, this conversation was over when he mentioned me and short in the same sentence, so blow me. If he can't take it then don't use my name in vain. Pulease..........

Dude, I can go on for months running smack, haven't you learned?

Late.

but this is what I see


Beaten at what? Try smurfing some weight, get a smurf, a real smurf and a smurfette and then meet me on the same playing field smurf ass.

Johnny was the first one to start with the smurf shit, so I felt the smurf and I will continue to smurf the need to take note of that smurf.

As far as being a smurfette, according to the Johnny, this conversation was smurf when he mentioned me and smurf in the same sentence, so smurf me. If he can't smurf it then don't smurf my name in vain. Pusmurf..........

Dude, I can go on for months running smurf, haven't you smurfed?

Smurf.

[Mixability]

The 1996 Western Conference Semifinals, apparently.
:lol

[Tek_XX]

Bob Hill sucked, he had a good record but he inherited a good team. When the time came in the playoffs to use good coaching skills he always got out coached. We should be thankful his whinny ass is long gone.

[SequSpur]

I don't like the way Bob Hill handled and is still handling getting fired from the Spurs. Coaches get fired all the time, get over yourself.

He needs to get off Pop's back. Didn't Van Gundy get replaced by Pat Riley just when Shaq was coming off the injured list? I don't hear an uproar about how that was handled. It makes Hill look bad and I'm sure his attitude is a major factor in him not getting another chance for so long.

Hill is an ok coach, but anyone who thinks the Spurs would have been better with him as the coach the last seven years is nuts.

The Sonics will undoubtedly not reach expectations this year, and Hill won't do anything to change that. He might have had it in his head that he could do in Seattle what the Whiner did in Denver last season. The difference, though, is that Denver was an underachieving team but this year's Sonics just aren't that good.

What did Bob Hill write the article and send it to Buck Harvey for publishing?

Am I missing something?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

What did Bob Hill write the article and send it to Buck Harvey for publishing?

Am I missing something?

Bottom line: Bob Hill will be out of coaching again by season's end. Bank on it.

Seattle might just let Pop come in and fire Bob on their behalf for old times sake.

[Duff McCartney]

It's hilarious that Sequ is standing up for Bob Hill yet Bob Hill hasn't done a god damn thing since he got canned by the Spurs, and Pop has won 3 titles.

Talk about giving Pop a blowjob, Sequ has is mouth permanently attached to Bob Hills dick.

Spurs could have won every title from 97 up until now and Sequ would still be bitching about Bob Hill.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What's the huge deal with Bob Hill? Why all the negativity?

We just got our asses kicked by Detroit and the Spurs need something to take the attention off the fans. So they called up Buck and had him dig up the grave of the Spurs coach from 9 years ago to deflect attention.

And largely, it's worked. Typical SA homervision.

[SequSpur]

It's hilarious that Sequ is standing up for Bob Hill yet Bob Hill hasn't done a god damn thing since he got canned by the Spurs, and Pop has won 3 titles.

Talk about giving Pop a blowjob, Sequ has is mouth permanently attached to Bob Hills dick.

Spurs could have won every title from 97 up until now and Sequ would still be bitching about Bob Hill.

Oh.... look its JB and Tparks little brother.......

My beef is why waste Sunday newspaper space with unimportant opinions on Bob Hill.

No one gives a shit about Bob Hill.

Dude is an employed NBA head coach, he is still getting paid by Fordham and Buck Harvey is pissed because he stole his cookie jar or something.

or

Buck Harvey = Greg Popovich...

Which is possible.........

[Solid D]

http://www.prodevelopmentcamp.com/images/campphoto2.jpg

Most men would be uncomfortable with shorts pulled up that high.