Pistons-Spurs 5 Days Later

[Despot]

So, with the time that has passed, and after all the initial anger or oblivious feelings, or worry that everyone here felt right after the game, I'm curious if anyone has changed their opinion about the game, or where the Spurs stand compared to the Pistons. I'm not saying we should have won, we lost, I understand that, not making excuses.

The reason I am writing this is I rewatched the game last night, and I feel much better about the loss. While we played badly, even with being badly beaten on rebounds, and the lack of team ball, if we would have made some shots we normally do, it would have been much closer. And it wasn't just the Pistons D, we protected the ball well. While we had lousy shot selection, shots were not guarded as ferociously as I had thought, we just missed open shots, especially 3's that we would normally make.

I felt more like instead of us getting crushed and playing without heart, we just did not take advantage of oppurtunities and mostly, it just wasn't our night.

Am I just rationalizing?

[z0sa]

I think the Spurs vs. Pistons in the playoffs would be nothing like the two regular season meetings.

That said, we played with no heart, Finley didn't show up to play, and we need to rebound the ball. But I'm liking what Finley is doing off the bench the last two games against the Grizz.

[FreshPrince22]

I think the Spurs vs. Pistons in the playoffs would be nothing like the two regular season meetings.

That said, we played with no heart, Finley didn't show up to play, and we need to rebound the ball. But I'm liking what Finley is doing off the bench the last two games against the Grizz.

Finley never "shows up" against Tayshaun. Since Tayshaun became a starter (their last 6 meetings):

Finley: 32.3mpg, 6.6ppg on 22% shooting (11 of 49 from the field)

This is nothing new.

[Marcus Bryant]

Something needs to change between now and June. There was no sense of urgency. The Spurs were utterly dominated on the glass. With Horry as your primary big backup your bigman rotation is already going to be on the slight side. When Nesterovic is your starting center with his 4 rebound per game average and his 0.2 trips to the line per game average, you are going to be fucked. There is a reason the Spurs were ready to give him away for the stinky rotting corpse of Tariq Abdul-Wahad's career back in the summer.

This team is abyssmal when it comes to championship level play. One can only hope they are floating and can hit a switch come April. History has shown that is not a prudent strategy.

[boutons_]

Losing @DET was bad, but getting embarrassed, playing with no energy, mentally soft, totally destroyed @att was worse. Even Sean said he expected them to come out with a lot more and ready for revenge. They came out as flat and as ineffective as they were in Detroit. Sean said their record is "pretty", but the Spurs haven't played well all year.

Spurs got destroyed @DAL, the went back and took the second one. That's what I was expecting in the second Pistons game.

Spurs may show up with their silly SPAM shit later, but not having HCA in the Finals will be a extremely difficult to overcome. Spurs have 44 games to make up 5 Ls on the Pistons with Tim probably not healthy anytime soon, maybe not even this season.

They will have to split the first 2 games @DET to have even a prayer. Splitting would increase possibility of going back to DET up 3-2, instead of down 2-3.

But everything turns on Tim's heel permitting him to play interior defense. Tim not anchoring the defense, then no good defense by Spurs, and no Title.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

yeah looking back on it and seeing how spurs responded to the 2nd detroit loss (barely beating memphis at our own floor, although i admit the road win was very nice) i still have yet to see ANYTHING this entire season that shows me that the spurs will be ready to play ball when it matters. but the memphis win was great so hopefully we can get something going and find some consistency

[DDS4]

Detroit is better than the Spurs right now.

That doesn't mean the tables can't be turned come March/April or the NBA Finals.

[z0sa]

It's still January. Notice how many minutes the starters played for Detroit in the game - if it was so bad, why wasn't the Detroit bench out there the last four or five minutes of the game?

The truth is, Flip is really stretching the Detroit starting 5. While I believe they are quite conditioned athletes and can take the playing time, its still to be seen if it will affect them later in the season with injuries or just being burned out.

[bdubya]

Detroit is better than the Spurs right now.


Exactly. Right now, it's JANUARY. Much as I enjoyed that win...it's JANUARY, and the dominating Pistons juggernaut has opened a staggering....2.5-game lead. I'm not complaining, but that's a pretty thin lead..... :wow

[FreshPrince22]

Notice how many minutes the starters played for Detroit in the game - if it was so bad, why wasn't the Detroit bench out there the last four or five minutes of the game?

The truth is, Flip is really stretching the Detroit starting 5. While I believe they are quite conditioned athletes and can take the playing time, its still to be seen if it will affect them later in the season with injuries or just being burned out.

It's much easier for the losing coach to take out their players early than it is for the winning coach to do so. The losing coach has nothing to lose in that situation. As the Spurs learned last year (13 points in 35 seconds), anything can happen. If it was a 20 point lead the starters would have been on the bench, but it was hovering between 11 and 15. Also, our bench went to check in with a couple minutes left, but they never got a whistle.

As for the comment I've responded to 1000 times (starters being burned out)... It's just not realistic. They're playing less minutes than last year. The Pistons leader in minutes only plays about a minute and a half more than the Spurs leader in minutes. The difference is, our leader is the energizer bunny (Rip), yours is a 29 year old big man with an injury. Just because our 5th starter plays more than the Spurs' doesn't mean he's going to be more fatigued than a player on the Spurs who plays more. Plenty of players in the league play more than any of the Pistons starters.

The fatigue comment really isn't logical when you think about. No one player plays an absurd amount of minutes. None are even in the top 30 in minutes per game.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

i agree with freshprince22. im also sick of this "oh their starters will be tired" granted their bench isnt as strong as last year, its not like they're constantly playing super up tempo ball like phoenix did last year. this is a tough starting five and i dont see fatigue really "catching" up with them come playoff time. plus at the rate they are running away with the league the pistons will probably be 10 games ahead of us by march and will prolly just play their bench for the last couple of months waiting for the playoffs.

[mikejones99]

Everyone thought the colts would win SB40, it is possible that Miami plays PHX in the finals even though the Spurs n Pistons are still the heavy favorites.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Everyone thought the colts would win SB40, it is possible that Miami plays PHX in the finals even though the Spurs n Pistons are still the heavy favorites.

yeah but single game elimination and best of 7 series are 2 entirely different worlds

[mikejones99]

currently Detroit would only be very small favorites over Miami n the east about -140 and Dal n Phx both think they can beat SA.

[SouthernFried]

Detroit is so far ahead of everyone else in the league, it's ridiculous.

Spurs are beating other divisional contenders, and then getting destroyed by Detroit. If the Spurs can beat most teams, and then get destroyed by Detroit...how bad are these other teams?

Manu starting will definetly help our energy against big D. But, unless we do something about our board play...its gonna be meaningless. Mebbe Finley coming off the bench and not going all da time against Prince will work out better also.

Detroit knows our offense now, and play against it perfectly. We're gonna have to work on our offense sets a lot more. Timmy and Sheed "usually" cancel each other out. But, Timmy's gonna have to be feeling pretty good for even that to happen. I also think Nazr plays better than Rasho against Detroit's front line.

We've got a lotta work to get to Detroits level. We've done it before, letsee if we can do it again.

And I think the most important factor in all of this...is how Pop does his job to prepare the team. Barring injuries...our success this year depends a ton on how he gets this team ready. We ain't now...if we are in the playoffs, he'll deserve the Kudo's, imho ;)

[SenorSpur]

I don't see how you were able to stomach that debacle all over again, but oh well. Yes, you are rationalizing. Let's be real about one thing - the Spurs got their asses WHIPPED. 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months or 5 years from now, that ass whipping will still just that.

The troublesome fact is the Spurs had everything to play for. The recent memory of that Xmas day fiasco was still fresh; they were defending their home court; and their competitive pride alone should have forced them to come out and play with an "edge". They did not.

They should have never allowed any team, especially the Pistons, to outhustle, outrebound, outdefend and virtually outplay them for the better part of an entire game.

Say what you want, but this was not just any ol' game. This game had both playoff atmosphere and championship implications along with it. Yet, it still wasn't enough to inspire the Spurs.

The Pistons, on the other hand, have taken their championship loss to the Spurs and have made recliaming the title their crusade for this season. They are playing with a purpose. They are playing mad.

While I don't believe the Spurs are as bad a team as they showed, I do believe the Pistons are every bit as good a team as they demonstrated.

Let's hope our team regroups and develops that "sense of urgency" before the start of the playoffs.

[polandprzem]

I hate when people are saying It's November, It's December, It's january and so on :rolleyes
Come on. The spurs are the NBA Champions - where is their pride?
Chicago Lakers had it.
Are they still working? (j/k) But you've got to admitt they got to make their statments as a champions. We all know the Pops strategy. He sits down in the All star break, sum up everything and makes a plan to the rest of a season (the rotations, the role by the players).
If the spurs won't be playing like they were last season or without a hustle. It's over.
You saying they are not playing up to thair potential. Okay. But we are not sure if they will play by their potential. Thats all.

[FreshPrince22]

granted their bench isnt as strong as last year, its not like they're constantly playing super up tempo ball like phoenix did last year.

Bench isn't as strong as last year?? Is that a typo?? We had no bench last year. This year we have essentially added Arroyo, Delfino, Evans, and Dale Davis to McDyess and Lindsey Hunter. The bench is MUCH better this year. '03-'04 is tougher to judge. In the regular season, yes, the bench was great. But Corliss and Memo didn't even show up in the playoffs. They had a couple decent games, but were bad overall. Mike James is the only guy who contributed a decent amount, and even his impact was overrated. Elden Campbell was only a factor against Shaq.

As for the tempo. The Pistons are actually the 2nd slowest paced team to the Grizzlies. That is what is so incredible about what Flip had done to the offense. They actually average less than possessions than last year, but score about 6ppg MORE. A lot of that is because the Pistons are on pace to set an NBA record for fewest Turnovers per game (by almost a full Turnover per game). Not to mention all the wide open shots.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bench isn't as strong as last year?? Is that a typo?? We had no bench last year. This year we have essentially added Arroyo, Delfino, Evans, and Dale Davis to McDyess and Lindsey Hunter. The bench is MUCH better this year. '03-'04 is tougher to judge. In the regular season, yes, the bench was great. But Corliss and Memo didn't even show up in the playoffs. They had a couple decent games, but were bad overall. Mike James is the only guy who contributed a decent amount, and even his impact was overrated. Elden Campbell was only a factor against Shaq.

As for the tempo. The Pistons are actually the 2nd slowest paced team to the Grizzlies. That is what is so incredible about what Flip had done to the offense. They actually average less than possessions than last year, but score about 6ppg MORE. A lot of that is because the Pistons are on pace to set an NBA record for fewest Turnovers per game (by almost a full Turnover per game). Not to mention all the wide open shots.


well hunter is injured and mcdyess has been a no show most of this year. i think the biggest reason your starters play as much is mostly b/c of the lack of a bench. the 2nd unit for detroit just isn't getting it done but since the starting 5 is so strong they are just dismantling everyone

[FreshPrince22]

well hunter is injured and mcdyess has been a no show most of this year.

McDyess is following the exact same pattern he did last year. Awful start, then he slowly warmed up and it clicked one day. He has been great the last month and a half or so. He isn't scoring quite as much as last year simply because of the fact that Delfino and Mo Evans are sharing the load. In the last game Delfino scored 11 points, and the game before that Evans scored 18 points. There just aren't as many touches for him. He's still rebounding, defending, and knocking down those shots he always does. He's just getting a few less touches because we have more options. Last year we literally had no one else who could score off the bench. Arroyo could dish, and Lindsey could defend. That's about it. We used to just pound it into him. Now, he can get his points more in the flow of the offense. We only have to pound it in when Evans and Delfino can't get it going. Consider this...

McDyess's first 9 games: 3.7ppg on 30% shooting
McDyess since then (26 games): 8ppg on 52% shooting

And he is playing a little bit less because Flip loves Rasheed. He loves using him to initiate the offense in the high-post (which is why Sheed is averaging a career high in assists).

BTW, the starters are playing less than last year as a whole. The starters would play a lot no matter what bench they have behind them. They have such great chemistry that they are much better as a unit. The whole is better than the sum of it's parts, you know? That's why all the starters play similar minutes. None play a huge amount of minutes, but they all play a good amount.

[Obstructed_View]

<----- Still not worried. Barring major injury, the Spurs will catch the Pistons before the playoffs.

[pache100]

This team is abyssmal when it comes to championship level play.

There were a lot of people crying this crap last year. too. And yet...

http://tinypic.com/kf2tk0.jpg

I think it's waaaa-aay early to make an assessment like that.

Pop is getting that urgent tone in his voice already, and it's not even the all-star break yet. He's ready to start smacking heads when they don't do what he tells them. We'll be ok. Count on it.

[1Parker1]

Our starting center combined for something like 8 rebounds TOTAL in the two games against Detroit. Our starting SG (Finley) combined for something like 5 points TOTAL in the two games against Detroit. We combined to score an average of something like 74.5 TOTAL in the two games against Detroit. Of course you're going to lose when that happens.

[101A]

Chicago Lakers had it.


The last championship; Utah swept Chicago in the regular season.

As defending champs, the Lakers lost the season series and HCA to the Spurs a couple of times, then destroyed them in the playoffs.

SA beat Houston 5 of 6 times in '95, finished the season 13 GAMES UP on them - then got schooled by the defending champs.

Then in '96, Spurs won the division only to get DISMANTLED and embarrassed in a series of blowouts to the Jazz.

Also, it is VERY unlikely that the finals will go seven - making HCA irrelevent. Before last season, can anybody remember one going that long?

It has been since 1990 since SA played ANY series which went 7.

ONLY championships are remembered - regular season is completely irrelevent. You people have very short memories, or are very young.

Let's review WHY the Spurs will win the championship this year against Detroit:

1. Spurs won last year.

Since then:

Spurs added Michael Finley (he's better than a hurt Devin Brown, or any Glenn Robinson)

Spurs added Nick Van Exel (he's better than a rookie Beno Udrih)

Most importantly, and somewhat unexpectedly Tony Parker improved ALOT (I guess since he is still very young, a time when point guards typically make great strides)

Detroit added no significant new players.

Billups has improved his regular season play, making it on par with his playoff performances for the last couple of years (which is the player the Spurs faced, anyway)

Detroit lost a coach with a championship pedigree, and one who is considered one of the top in the league.

Detroit added a coach who has won EXACTLY TWO playoff series in his entire career.

[FreshPrince22]

We combined to score an average of something like 74.5 TOTAL in the two games against Detroit.

Actually it was 69ppg :eyebrows

I don't think anyone can say it was a fluke though like it seems you're implying. The same EXACT thing happend both times. Finley didn't score in either game (Career 22% shooter against Tayshaun as a starter). Duncan didn't go off like he usually does. The Pistons won by 15 both times. The Pistons held the Spurs to 68 and 70 (both easily their lowest point totals this year). And finally, the Pistons out rebounded them by 20+ in both games.

[FreshPrince22]

The last championship; Utah swept Chicago in the regular season.

As defending champs, the Lakers lost the season series and HCA to the Spurs a couple of times, then destroyed them in the playoffs.

SA beat Houston 5 of 6 times in '95, finished the season 13 GAMES UP on them - then got schooled by the defending champs.

Then in '96, Spurs won the division only to get DISMANTLED and embarrassed in a series of blowouts to the Jazz.

Also, it is VERY unlikely that the finals will go seven - making HCA irrelevent. Before last season, can anybody remember one going that long?

It has been since 1990 since SA played ANY series which went 7.

ONLY championships are remembered - regular season is completely irrelevent. You people have very short memories, or are very young.

Let's review WHY the Spurs will win the championship this year against Detroit:

1. Spurs won last year.

Since then:

Spurs added Michael Finley (he's better than a hurt Devin Brown, or any Glenn Robinson)

Spurs added Nick Van Exel (he's better than a rookie Beno Udrih)

Most importantly, and somewhat unexpectedly Tony Parker improved ALOT (I guess since he is still very young, a time when point guards typically make great strides)

Detroit added no significant new players.

Billups has improved his regular season play, making it on par with his playoff performances for the last couple of years (which is the player the Spurs faced, anyway)

Detroit lost a coach with a championship pedigree, and one who is considered one of the top in the league.

Detroit added a coach who has won EXACTLY TWO playoff series in his entire career.

All i need to say in response.... Detroit was 7 points shy of San Antonio last year (where it DID go to 7, and HCA ended up deciding the series), that should tell you how even the teams are. Detroit has gotten a lot better this year. San Antonio has not proven that they have gotten better (or stayed the same for that matter).

You can say all you want about "we've added this and that, and they have a shitty coach", but I prefer to look at what happens on the court. And clearly, Detroit is a better team this year than they were last year. I'm not going to say the Spurs can't be as good or better than they were last year, but I have yet to see it.

And don't give me the "Finley and Van Exel" crap. 2 very overrated additions. Neither fit the Spurs mold. Meanwhile, we quietly added players who do fit the Pistons. And Flip at 30-5 is making LB look pretty silly right about now. Comparing the T-Wolves to the Pistons is just idiotic as well. Total polar opposite teams.

[101A]

Actually it was 69ppg :eyebrows

I don't think anyone can say it was a fluke though like it seems you're implying. The same EXACT thing happend both times. Finley didn't score in either game. Duncan didn't get off like he usually does. The Pistons won by 15 both times. The Pistons held the Spurs to 68 and 70 (both easily their lowest point totals this year). And finally, the Pistons out rebounded them by 20+ in both games.


You're right.

The Pistons are 15 points better than the next best team in the league, with the same squad as last year, and that other team improved. 4-4-4-4, write it down, book it; this season is OVER - unless of course the Jazz can make the finals, because they are obviously superior to the Pistons. Same thing happened in both games, right?

It couldn't possibly be that the Spurs are about as concerned about a game in January against the Pistons as the Pistons are about a game against the Jazz, right?

[101A]

All i need to say in response.... Detroit was 7 points shy of San Antonio last year (where it DID go to 7, and HCA ended up deciding the series). Detroit has gotten a lot better this year. San Antonio has not proven that they have gotten better (or stayed the same for that matter).

You can say all you want about "we've added this and that, and they have a shitty coach", but I prefer to look at what happens on the court. And clearly, Detroit is a better team this year than they were last year. I'm not going to say the Spurs can't be as good or better than they were last year, but I have yet to see it.

Detroit is not better this year - they are playing like they did when they took the Spurs to 7.

The Spurs are actually playing very similar ball to what they were last year AT THIS TIME. In June, I expect, and have every reason to believe, they will be better than they were in June of last year.

[smeagol]

Something needs to change between now and June. There was no sense of urgency. The Spurs were utterly dominated on the glass. With Horry as your primary big backup your bigman rotation is already going to be on the slight side. When Nesterovic is your starting center with his 4 rebound per game average and his 0.2 trips to the line per game average, you are going to be fucked. There is a reason the Spurs were ready to give him away for the stinky rotting corpse of Tariq Abdul-Wahad's career back in the summer.

This team is abyssmal when it comes to championship level play. One can only hope they are floating and can hit a switch come April. History has shown that is not a prudent strategy.
Last year in January the Spurs record was the same as this year’s.

The only difference between the starting five that won the championship and the current starting five is Rasho for Nazr (a switch Pop can make any day now). Plus we have added Finley and Van X and let go an injured Devin Brown.

So where is the problem? These are the same guys that won the championship last year plus some additions/upgrades.

People need to chill. We are going to repeat.

[TwoHandJam]

If Detroit can play as horribly as they did to start the season last year and still get to a game 7 in the finals, then I think we have no reason to panic just yet.

We need to make adjustments to our frontcourt to be sure but I trust that Pop already knows this after our two encounters.

[FreshPrince22]

You're right.

The Pistons are 15 points better than the next best team in the league, with the same squad as last year, and that other team improved. 4-4-4-4, write it down, book it; this season is OVER - unless of course the Jazz can make the finals, because they are obviously superior to the Pistons. Same thing happened in both games, right?

It couldn't possibly be that the Spurs are about as concerned about a game in January against the Pistons as the Pistons are about a game against the Jazz, right?

"That other team improved".... In what??? Hype? Congrats, you're the Heat. Give me some substance to go along with your paper championship.

As for the Jazz... I will be the first to say they have our number. But losing to a team we see twice a year is one thing. They aren't contenders, and we will never see them again this year. Getting blown out TWICE by the team with the best record in the league, that took you to a game 7 the previous year is a totally different one. Now don't confuse this with me "Calling a championship" over a couple regular season wins, because I'm not. I'm not stupid. The Spurs WILL get better. But I have seen these big "improvements" that everyone was so hyped up about in the offseason. In fact, most Spurs fans don't like Fin and NVE (See the multiple "Fin and NVE suck" threads). They take bad shots, and don't play defense. Devin Brown (conveniently a member of the Jazz this year) gives us a lot more problems than Finley does (a career 22% shooter against tayshaun as a starter). And sorry, but Nick is not the player he was 5 years ago. His shot selection is still hideous though.

Needless to say, the championship is still very much up in the air, but based on how the Pistons are playing, I like our chances.

[FreshPrince22]

Detroit is not better this year - they are playing like they did when they took the Spurs to 7.

The Spurs are actually playing very similar ball to what they were last year AT THIS TIME. In June, I expect, and have every reason to believe, they will be better than they were in June of last year.

Not better??? That's just wishful thinking. The Pistons have the most effecient offense in the ENTIRE league by over 2 points per 100 possessions. Yes, better than Phoenix, Dallas, etc. It's not even close. Yes, this was one of the worst offensive teams in the league the last 2 years. And as your Spurs know, they still know how to play D and rebound the ball. Scary thing is, they will only get better as the year goes on. Flip only has 50% of the playbook implimented, and the defense never clicks untill feb-march.

[nkdlunch]

The only real concern is TD injury. That we gonna turn it on sometime after All-Star is for sure. So no worries about that. We haven't even played anywhere close to our full potential and we have the 2nd best record in the NBA.

[101A]

"That other team improved".... In what??? Hype? Congrats, you're the Heat. Give me some substance to go along with your paper championship.

As for the Jazz... I will be the first to say they have our number. But losing to a team we see twice a year is one thing. They aren't contenders, and we will never see them again this year. Getting blown out TWICE by the team with the best record in the league, that took you to a game 7 the previous year is a totally different one. Now don't confuse this with me "Calling a championship" over a couple regular season wins, because I'm not. I'm not stupid. The Spurs WILL get better. But I have seen these big "improvements" that everyone was so hyped up about in the offseason. In fact, most Spurs fans don't like Fin and NVE (See the multiple "Fin and NVE suck" threads). They take bad shots, and don't play defense. Devin Brown (conveniently a member of the Jazz this year) gives us a lot more problems than Finley does (a career 22% shooter against tayshaun as a starter). And sorry, but Nick is not the player he was 5 years ago. His shot selection is still hideous though.

Needless to say, the championship is still very much up in the air, but based on how the Pistons are playing, I like our chances.


Devin Brown was hurt during the finals last year, Finley certainly brings more to the table than he did, and Fin is also averaging more pts. than ANY backup 2 the Spurs have had since Manu in '04; when Hedo didn't do jack. THe combo at the 2 is quite formidable, and those people who are disappointed with Finley to this point are the same one pouring grape kool-aid. BTW - Fin won't start - Prince can't play ALL the minutes defending Manu and Michael, can he?

If Nick was the player he was 5 years ago, the Spurs wouldn't be paying him the veterans minimum - he is however, much better than last years Beno, and he WILL hit a couple of big shots in the playoffs, his is Nick Van Exel, after all.

To get an idea of what this team DOES take seriously, look at there record against the West, they seem to focus more for those games. They just took a home/home against a solid competitor without breaking a sweat.

I expect them to finish the season, after having rested Tim & Manu on and off for the last couple of weeks of the season, tied with the Mavs in the West, holding the tie-breaker (any more than that would be a waste of energy which will be needed in the playoffs).

If you're looking for evidense of what this team will be like in June ON THE COURT, look at game 7 of the finals last season - it was only a few months ago, after all. That championship AIN'T paper.

Also, I have much more experience watching Flip as a coach in the playoffs than you do. I don't like your chances.

[101A]

The Pistons have the most effecient offense in the ENTIRE league by over 2 points per 100 possessions.

Detroit now has an offensive minded coach.


Yes, better than Phoenix, Dallas, etc. It's not even close.

Detroit has an offensive minded coach.


and the defense never clicks untill feb-march.

under LB, but now: Detroit has an offensive minded coach.

But

Defense wins championships.

[polandprzem]

The last championship; Utah swept Chicago in the regular season.

As defending champs, the Lakers lost the season series and HCA to the Spurs a couple of times, then destroyed them in the playoffs.

SA beat Houston 5 of 6 times in '95, finished the season 13 GAMES UP on them - then got schooled by the defending champs.

Then in '96, Spurs won the division only to get DISMANTLED and embarrassed in a series of blowouts to the Jazz.

Also, it is VERY unlikely that the finals will go seven - making HCA irrelevent. Before last season, can anybody remember one going that long?

It has been since 1990 since SA played ANY series which went 7.

ONLY championships are remembered - regular season is completely irrelevent. You people have very short memories, or are very young.

Let's review WHY the Spurs will win the championship this year against Detroit:

1. Spurs won last year.

Since then:

Spurs added Michael Finley (he's better than a hurt Devin Brown, or any Glenn Robinson)

Spurs added Nick Van Exel (he's better than a rookie Beno Udrih)

Most importantly, and somewhat unexpectedly Tony Parker improved ALOT (I guess since he is still very young, a time when point guards typically make great strides)

Detroit added no significant new players.

Billups has improved his regular season play, making it on par with his playoff performances for the last couple of years (which is the player the Spurs faced, anyway)

Detroit lost a coach with a championship pedigree, and one who is considered one of the top in the league.

Detroit added a coach who has won EXACTLY TWO playoff series in his entire career.

You think I don't know that?
You think I don't know the hostory of the game?
You are wrong.

Now it's all about "ifs"

Can they play up to their potential?
Is Michael gonna be effective vs. the Pistons.
Is Barry gonna have that bech impact?
Is Tim Duncan gonna be okay?
Is Nazr gonna rotate?
Is Rasho gonna dunk?
Is Eve gonna be with Tony?

All that matter.
And all I know - Detroit can do it , and I know they are strong. I do not know if the spurs are(?) Are they gonna be tough enough?

Damn - too many question marks. :pctoss
What about Sean Marks?

[FreshPrince22]

Billups has improved his regular season play, making it on par with his playoff performances for the last couple of years (which is the player the Spurs faced, anyway)


Forgot to reply to this individually before. Since when in the playoffs or EVER has Chauncey averaged almost 9 assists per game? I'll give you a hint, his previous career high was 5.8apg, and he averages 5.6apg in the playoffs. He has the freedom to make plays when he sees them now.

Here's a stat for you.. Through 35 games, Chauncey has reached 10+ assists 14 times. In the 3 years before (232 games) he had 10+ assists 12 times total.

Again, saying he isn't better is just wishful thinking.

[1Parker1]

Actually it was 69ppg :eyebrows

I don't think anyone can say it was a fluke though like it seems you're implying. The same EXACT thing happend both times. Finley didn't score in either game (Career 22% shooter against Tayshaun as a starter). Duncan didn't go off like he usually does. The Pistons won by 15 both times. The Pistons held the Spurs to 68 and 70 (both easily their lowest point totals this year). And finally, the Pistons out rebounded them by 20+ in both games.

I'm not trying to imply it was a fluke, I'm trying to imply that Spurs have a lot of room for improvement, and hopefully when the postseason comes around, those three aspects (well maybe except the whole Rasho improvement thing) should get better. Bottom line is, if the Spurs big 3 hit more of their shots (which I expect them to do in the postseason), Bruce continues to do his thing, and Horry comes in and gives us a solid performance, and we have at least maybe 1 "X-Factor" in the game, be it Finley, NVE, Nazr, or Barry...Spurs should be in good shape against the Pistons.


Because of the lopsided Pistons victory both games, people are forgetting the Spurs did an excellent job defensively on the Pistons also...holding them below their season average in points and FG%.

Obviously those 2 games showed the Spurs have a long way to go to catch up to the Pistons, but like I've been saying. These two teams are so evenly matched, that if they do meet in the Finals, it's going to be a close one and will likely come down to one player on either team making a series changing shot in a game (i.e Horry Game 5 last year).

[101A]

Forgot to reply to this individually before. Since when in the playoffs or EVER has Chauncey averaged almost 9 assists per game? I'll give you a hint, his previous career high was 5.8apg, and he averages 5.6apg in the playoffs. He has the freedom to make plays when he sees them now.

Here's a stat for you.. Through 35 games, Chauncey has reached 10+ assists 14 times. In the 3 years before (232 games) he had 10+ assists 12 times total.

Again, saying he isn't better is just wishful thinking.

He isn't better - he's playing in a different system which gets him more assists.

Tony is playing in the same system, and ALL his numbers are up - he's better.

Heres a stat for you. In 1999 Flip Saunder's coached team stole HCA from San Antonio by winning at the Alamodome in game 2 of their series. They then lost 2 straight at home and the Spurs advanced to the championship!

[FreshPrince22]

If you're looking for evidense of what this team will be like in June ON THE COURT, look at game 7 of the finals last season - it was only a few months ago, after all. That championship AIN'T paper.


Trust me, I'm not banking on the current Spurs team to be the team we face in the Finals if both teams get there. If it's the team that was there last year, I like our chances. Especially if that game 7 is held on the Palace floor. And even moreso if the Pistons don't come off a grueling 7 game series to face a rested Spurs team.

It's funny that you mention our new coach after you mentioned game 7. Our old coach's in-game coaching abilities and strategy single handidly cost us that game (and the title) when he decided to put Tayshaun Prince on Tim Duncan when both Dice and Sheed still had 4 fouls to give between them. You know what followed. Tim goes off on stick-boy, and the game is all Spurs. Real coaching genius, LB. :rolleyes I shouldn't have to remind you that untill the Pistons won him one, Larry didn't have any rings on his fingers. And Pop only had 1 playoff series win before the Spurs first Title season. Writing Flip of isn't a smart move. Every coach has a first championship. No coach came out of the womb with a ring on their finger.

[FreshPrince22]

Heres a stat for you. In 1999 Flip Saunder's coached team stole HCA from San Antonio by winning at the Alamodome in game 2 of their series. They then lost 2 straight at home and the Spurs advanced to the championship!

Here's a few stats for you... Pistons aren't the Wolves. Pistons aren't a one man show. Pistons play D. Pistons are a proven championship team.

As for Chauncey... You clearly are clueless. Chauncey my be the same player he was last year, but if that's the case, then Larry CLEARLY was holding him back. He is doing things he NEVER did in the past. He is actually playmaking. He used to get assists solely on Rip's curl shots. That is not the case anymore.

[101A]

And Pop only had 1 playoff series win before the Spurs first Title season. Writing Flip of isn't a smart move. Every coach has a first championship. No coach came out of the womb with a ring on their finger.

Pop had only been in a single playoff before he won a championship - not from the womb, but pretty close, since then, with Tim, only Phil Jackson has eliminated him.

I guess I don't understand why Detroit is so hung up on HCA this year; they obviously weren't last season, but still made the finals, despite playing game 7 on the other guys court - and Detroit, in fact, lost a game at home to the Spurs. All the Piston's posters on this board talked and talked about how it didn't matter, etc. Now it's the freaking holy grail (and not just to Detroit fan, plenty of Spurs fans are hung up on it now).

My entire point is, none of what you have seen in the season means anything. The Spurs are sleepwalking, not expending excess energy, preparing to peak when the playoffs start - they want to win their division, simply because not doing so gives you a 4 seed with the new structure.

Also, this is never mentioned, but I think Pop has a REAL long-term plan in mind. This is not some veteran, put together to go after a single ring type squad. The big three are all in their prime together, looking to go back to back as long as possible - and 2 of them are playing international ball this summer; They have to be concerned about next season, and the one after that RIGHT NOW, because there won't be any stoppage of basketball between now and then. The NBA regular season might be the most relaxing time for those guys for the forseeable future.

Has anybody made note that when Dallas is 1 loss behind the Spurs, the Spurs are undefeated? Or that when Dallas falls 2 behind, the Spurs lose soon thereafter? (the last Detroit game came 1 night after a Dallas loss).

They have lost twice as many games against the East than against the West - it means they are looking at their conference standings, trying to lock up tie-breakers. Hell, they just took care of business w/a home/home against a solid opponent w/o breaking a sweat.

The signs are there if you are looking, this Spur's team turns it on when it wants to

[Melmart1]

It cracks me up to read these threads where Spurs fans are stategizing about what to do WHEN the Spurs meet the Pistons in the NBA Finals.

First, it is stupid to re-tool your entire roster for one team, particularly a team you only meet twice in the regular season. Because, and this is the main point of my post- THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WE WILL MEET DETROIT IN THE FINALS.

So you stack your roster so that you have a light-footed center to deal with Ben Wallace and the Pistons front court. Great. BUT, what if you meet Shaq in the finals? Yes, this is possible. Sure, Miami is not nearly as good, but since when has that mattered? All it takes is one injury, and the finals that everyone is pre-predicting is gone. So basically, if we don't meet the Pistons in the Finals, then you made trades so that you could try to win two regular season games? Sounds kinda dumb to me.

[FreshPrince22]

I guess I don't understand why Detroit is so hung up on HCA this year; they obviously weren't last season, but still made the finals, despite playing game 7 on the other guys court - and Detroit, in fact, lost a game at home to the Spurs. All the Piston's posters on this board talked and talked about how it didn't matter, etc. Now it's the freaking holy grail (and not just to Detroit fan, plenty of Spurs fans are hung up on it now).

hmmm, let me think... Probably because it decided the title last year. They "didn't care" much last year like the Spurs "don't care", and it bite them in the ass last year.


Has anybody made note that when Dallas is 1 loss behind the Spurs, the Spurs are undefeated? Or that when Dallas falls 2 behind, the Spurs lose soon thereafter? (the last Detroit game came 1 night after a Dallas loss).

So now you're trying to tell me they let Detroit blow them out on their own court just because Dallas lost the night before? You were bad before, but you're really reaching for it here. Searching for any excuse you can find.



They have lost twice as many games against the East than against the West - it means they are looking at their conference standings, trying to lock up tie-breakers. Hell, they just took care of business w/a home/home against a solid opponent w/o breaking a sweat.

They haven't been a great road team this year. That is a fact. As for your reference to the Memphis games. I'd say plenty of people were sweating when Pau walked into the lane for a dunk to give the Grizz a lead with only a few seconds left. Don't make it sound like it was some cheap and easy wins. It took a bad defensive lapse from Pau to win that game against a team without their PG. And the second game was



The signs are there if you are looking, this Spur's team turns it on when it wants to

So, by your estimation they must not have "wanted" either game against the Pistons, correct? The obviously don't mind getting embarrassed twice in as many weeks by their biggest threat in the league, right?

[Rummpd]

Detroit is clearly the better team and at least in these two games by far - but the overall difference is probably exaggerated IF AND ONLY IF? the Spurs are hungry enough and healthier than they were at least in the Christmas game.

Don't forget again (albeit at home) Detroit rolled the Spurs 2 straight in the finals last year and then the Spurs found a way to win 2/3.


The key difference so far has been rebounding and remember that Duncan 14PPG ALMOST out rebounded BOTH Wallaces (about 16 RBG) in last years finals. (Mainly due to R. Wallace not being as effective as this year).

If we see the best of a near healthy Duncan on both sides of the ball this series could be short one in the Spurs favor - yet again will he be able to raise his game, against Rasheed especially?

On the positve side, one cannot also dismiss the fact that arguebly their 2nd best player Manu did not start either game. Also, as Pop said it was as much the Spurs missing their shots as the Pistons impressive defense.

Also, in the last game Pop did some strange things like leave Bowen off the floor, keep Nazr off almost the entire night. Even when the Spurs made runs to get within 6-10 points their best players were never seemingly left on the floor as a group at any time.



Detroit is granted scary good, especially if Rasheed continues to step up both offensvely and defensively esp on Duncan but will he?

On the Spurs side, Horry again has to step up (not only in threes but in rebounding and the defense he can bring - when motivated he defends as well as anyone) and the Spurs need something out of Nazr, most likely in a reserve role this year. Finley has to contribute some clutch shooting as well which honestly is a variable with his playoff history.

Finally, Parker has to bring it the whole game and the whole series this year for the Spurs to even make the finals and then win. I am tired of seeing him in the playoffs or in the first game against Detroit, score at will and then back off Keep driving even if the lanes are closed and dish.

If Parker has as good or nearly as good as a series as Billups - it will be very tough to beat the Spurs and he he is fully capable of doing so for all of Billups brillance this year.

[leemajors]

i don't think you can compare the success of lb vs flip. lb has 2 rings, albeit one collegiate. i understand he didn't have that pistons ring until 04, but i don't think lb single handedly cost the pistons the title with his coaching moves. you could just as easily blame it all on sheed for leaving horry. i don't think anyone is writing flip off, but it's just hard to believe he won't make some boneheaded coaching moves himself that may end up costing the pistons.

[GoSpurs21]

It's much easier for the losing coach to take out their players early than it is for the winning coach to do so. The losing coach has nothing to lose in that situation. As the Spurs learned last year (13 points in 35 seconds), anything can happen. If it was a 20 point lead the starters would have been on the bench, but it was hovering between 11 and 15. Also, our bench went to check in with a couple minutes left, but they never got a whistle.

As for the comment I've responded to 1000 times (starters being burned out)... It's just not realistic. They're playing less minutes than last year. The Pistons leader in minutes only plays about a minute and a half more than the Spurs leader in minutes. The difference is, our leader is the energizer bunny (Rip), yours is a 29 year old big man with an injury. Just because our 5th starter plays more than the Spurs' doesn't mean he's going to be more fatigued than a player on the Spurs who plays more. Plenty of players in the league play more than any of the Pistons starters.

The fatigue comment really isn't logical when you think about. No one player plays an absurd amount of minutes. None are even in the top 30 in minutes per game.biggest load of shit. guess what numb nuts, your starters have played over a 100 games the last two seasons, they are being played enough minutes to be burnt out by the time the playoffs are here. Age has a little to due with it, but there is no way you can say that playing that much has no effect.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Hasn't the minutes thing been blown to shreds enough times?

[nkdlunch]

I don't know why people keep trying to find flaws in Detroit. They are a rock solid team. The only way we gonna beat them is playing the same as last finals + good help from Finley and Vanx. simple.

[101A]

hmmm, let me think... Probably because it decided the title last year. They "didn't care" much last year like the Spurs "don't care", and it bite them in the ass last year.


HCA didn't decide the title last year. The Spurs beat the Pistons, AND won the last game played in Detroit. If Detroit could have won the last game played in SA, they would be champs.



So now you're trying to tell me they let Detroit blow them out on their own court just because Dallas lost the night before? You were bad before, but you're really reaching for it here. Searching for any excuse you can find.


I'm saying the Spurs don't give that much of a crap, and don't have as a goal, at all, beating Detroit - or any one Eastern conference team.



They haven't been a great road team this year. That is a fact. As for your reference to the Memphis games. I'd say plenty of people were sweating when Pau walked into the lane for a dunk to give the Grizz a lead with only a few seconds left. Don't make it sound like it was some cheap and easy wins. It took a bad defensive lapse from Pau to win that game against a team without their PG. And the second game was


Manu made a great pass; Pop drew up the play. Next game in Memphis, Spurs didn't let it be that close. Spurs weren't a good road team in the regular season last year, either. They won road games in each round of the playoffs, however.



So, by your estimation they must not have "wanted" either game against the Pistons, correct? The obviously don't mind getting embarrassed twice in as many weeks by their biggest threat in the league, right?

No, I honestly don't think they care about getting "embarassed". They are the champs and have the rings. Scoreboard.

[Rummpd]

The minutes is over-rated. All starters will play more minutes for both teams - if they are healthy at that point and that is always a big if in sports. That being said there will be key stages, where bench play can play a spark or at least stabalize if Duncan needs an extended rest or gets in foul trouble. The only thing predicable as far as all 10 starters is at one spot = is that Horry will play more for Rasho, unless Rasho really gets it going. Duncan is still the key, if he can play big minutes and have another MVP series (3-3 in the finals so you have to have some confidence in that) - Spurs chances up big time. Every minute he is on the floor our rebounding woes decrease somewhat by his size and ability in the paint alone. He, when healthy and on is game, is the single greatest force on the floor with no disrepect to fellow greats Rasheed, Ben (who to me is near superstar status with 3 DVPs), Manu, Tony, or Chauncey (who may well be the MVP going in) - if Duncan is on and can play big minutes Spurs chances go up big time. He will open up outside shots etc.

Another key is what team gets the bigger lift from the rest of the bench and honestly at this point, I cannot predict with any great confidence the Spurs until Finley comes up big the rest of the season and other playoff series and we get something out of Nazr we are not getting now.

If Duncan is slowed more by injury, probably forget this matchup even happening by the way. Suns (with at least an 80% Amare) or Mavs would be very stout test for a Spurs team with a Duncan slowed even more than last year.

[leemajors]

Hasn't the minutes thing been blown to shreds enough times?
yes indeed it has

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Detroit now has an offensive minded coach.



Detroit has an offensive minded coach.



under LB, but now: Detroit has an offensive minded coach.

But

Defense wins championships.

Your arguments are weak. They played D before LB and are playing D after LB...

Aren't you the one saying Pop is setting up Flip?

:lol

[101A]

Your arguments are weak. They played D before LB and are playing D after LB...

Aren't you the one saying Pop is setting up Flip?

:lol

Yes that's me; I've been consistent from the before the season began predicting Detroit would set as a goal having the best record, since Flip sees that as meaningful. I also predicted the Spurs would win between 58 and 62 games, 1 more than the 2nd place WC team - but not worry about HCA over the East. I am not making excuses as to why the Spurs lose, I predicted this before the season, the fact that it plays out that way just makes me more confident in my team, because I also predicted they would roll through the playoffs to a repeat championship.

Not setting him up. But he is outcoaching him in the finals Right Now, (if Flip can manage to win more playoff series than he has the rest of his career combined). Right now.

[boutons_]

What is more probable to the Spurs success/failure to repeat?

Pistons exhausted?

Tim's PF?

I bet Vegas money would go with PF. I certainly am.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Yes that's me; I've been consistent from the before the season began predicting Detroit would set as a goal having the best record, since Flip sees that as meaningful. I also predicted the Spurs would win between 58 and 62 games, 1 more than the 2nd place WC team - but not worry about HCA over the East. I am not making excuses as to why the Spurs lose, I predicted this before the season, the fact that it plays out that way just makes me more confident in my team, because I also predicted they would roll through the playoffs to a repeat championship.

Not setting him up. But he is outcoaching him in the finals Right Now, (if Flip can manage to win more playoff series than he has the rest of his career combined). Right now.

Huh? This makes even less sense...

[101A]

What is more probable to the Spurs success/failure to repeat?

Pistons exhausted?

Tim's PF?

I bet Vegas money would go with PF. I certainly am.


Or home court advantage. Tims health is obviously paramount. And yet some would have Pop playing him 40 mpg at full speed to win games in January.

[101A]

Huh? This makes even less sense...


It'll make sense in July.

[boutons_]

"Or home court advantage"

_AND_ HCA, of course.

Tim-injured Spurs have 44 games to make 5 Ls on the Pistons, for the Spurs to win HCA outright with best record, since Pistons will win the first tiebreaker, having swept the Spurs in regular season.

ie, Spurs making up the current 4Ls on the Pistons to tie Pistons
's season record isn't good enough for HCA.

How many people think the Spurs can repeat after dropping Finals Game1,2 @DET?

[101A]

Loaded question. They won't lose the 1st two. That would make 4 straight. Ain't gonna happen. Flip has never been able to take care of HCA in the playoffs.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It'll make sense in July.

Why July? Pop is outcoaching him in the Finals right now. Right now.

:lol

[101A]

OK mensa...it's like this.

The finals are not an entity in and of themselves. They are simply a culmination of everything that has happened to that point. Pop figured this out after he got swept in '01 by the Lakers AFTER the Spurs had HCA AND had won the season series.

Pop is building the season, planning on a peak, with as healthy and refreshed team as possible, right as the playoffs begin. Flip looks like he sees each game as a goal in and of itself, and he has instilled that in his team. They remind me much more of Phoenix, Dallas, or Sacramento, not the dominant Laker's teams of a few year's ago. There even leading offensive catagories like those squads. Last year's Detroit team was savvy, tough, grizzled and loaded for the playoffs. Mentally, I'm not sure this one is going to be. They are going to think they've accomplished something important with HCA. I've never seen a team with a recent championship so focused on that. The team with the best record in the L wins the title less than half the time.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

OK mensa...it's like this.

The finals are not an entity in and of themselves. They are simply a culmination of everything that has happened to that point. Pop figured this out after he got swept in '01 by the Lakers AFTER the Spurs had HCA AND had won the season series.

Pop is building the season, planning on a peak, with as healthy and refreshed team as possible, right as the playoffs begin. Flip looks like he sees each game as a goal in and of itself, and he has instilled that in his team. They remind me much more of Phoenix, Dallas, or Sacramento, not the dominant Laker's teams of a few year's ago. There even leading offensive catagories like those squads. Last year's Detroit team was savvy, tough, grizzled and loaded for the playoffs. Mentally, I'm not sure this one is going to be. They are going to think they've accomplished something important with HCA. I've never seen a team with a recent championship so focused on that. The team with the best record in the L wins the title less than half the time.


This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. If you don't think Pop tries to win every game he coaches in, you don't understand professional sports or professional coaches...

Mentally, the Spurs are the ones right now who are lacking(not by much), not the Pistons. Losing to bottom feeders is a lack of focus and that falls squarely on Pop's shoulders. It's his job to find a way to motivate his team when they don't have "it" or when playing inferior opponents. It's almost like you're knocking Flip for having the Pistons playing as the best team in the NBA right now which makes about as much sense as the "being outcoached in the Finals right now" statement...

And I have two words for you in thinking Pop is going to automatically outcoach Flip: Scott Skiles.

Mensa requires you to actually use your brain and think, something I see you rarely do when posting...

[101A]

Pop has said he doesn't necessarily try to win every game, especially early in the season. He is more concerned about matchups, combinations & rotations, and especially about staying healthy.

I am knocking Flip for having the Pistons play so hard right now.

All this work to secure an advantage which can be taken away in 48 minutes.

What are the Pistons like mentally if they drop game 1 to the Spurs? Game 2 coming up is now an absolute MUST WIN - otherwise you go to SA needing 2 of 3.

What film do the Pistons have to prepare them for that all important game 1. Christmas Day? Last Week? Those teams the Spurs rolled out didn't even have the proper starting lineups set! Starters played far fewer minutes than they will in the playoffs - Spurs didn't make many adjustments, or play inspired; nothing.

What do the Spurs have? Two games that Detroit saw, for all intent and purpose, as must wins. How flip attacked the D, how they played Tim, Tony; everything. There's a reason it's hard to beat the same team over and over again.

That's OK, Flip has shown a great ability to make adjustments in the playoffs when he gets beat.

[boutons_]

"Loaded question"

no, a hypothetical question.

But how hypothetical is it, based upon the Spurs results @DET?

The Pistons have swept the last four Spurs games @DET, except for Robert's 3G.

The Pistons have are 2-1 in their last 3 games @Spurs.

So, the Tim-injured Spurs losing Finals Game1,2 @DET is not a wild flight of fantasy.

I figure the best the Spurs can do @DET is get a split of Game1,2, stealing back Pistons Finals HCA.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Pop has said he doesn't necessarily try to win every game, especially early in the season. He is more concerned about matchups, combinations & rotations, and especially about staying healthy.

I am knocking Flip for having the Pistons play so hard right now.

All this work to secure an advantage which can be taken away in 48 minutes.

What are the Pistons like mentally if they drop game 1 to the Spurs? Game 2 coming up is now an absolute MUST WIN - otherwise you go to SA needing 2 of 3.

What film do the Pistons have to prepare them for that all important game 1. Christmas Day? Last Week? Those teams the Spurs rolled out didn't even have the proper starting lineups set! Starters played far fewer minutes than they will in the playoffs - Spurs didn't make many adjustments, or play inspired; nothing.

What do the Spurs have? Two games that Detroit saw, for all intent and purpose, as must wins. How flip attacked the D, how they played Tim, Tony; everything. There's a reason it's hard to beat the same team over and over again.

That's OK, Flip has shown a great ability to make adjustments in the playoffs when he gets beat.

Do you read what you post? You are finding fault with a coach whose team is winning and playing hard. Would you fault Pop if the records were reversed? I highly doubt it...


And I think you should look at the box score from the Christmas game again...

[101A]

Do you read what you post? You are finding fault with a coach whose team is winning and playing hard. Would you fault Pop if the records were reversed? I highly doubt it...


And I think you should look at the box score from the Christmas game again...

If a team needs confidence in itself, is immature and needs to build a winning tradition, especially if they don't have any real chance of making noise in the playoffs, play your guts out in the regular season.

I thought the Pistons were beyond that.

If Pop played an 8 man rotation in an effort to win a relatively meaningless regular season game against a non-conference opponent in January, I would find fault.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

If a team needs confidence in itself, is immature and needs to build a winning tradition, especially if they don't have any real chance of making noise in the playoffs, play your guts out in the regular season.

I thought the Pistons were beyond that.

If Pop played an 8 man rotation in an effort to win a relatively meaningless regular season game against a non-conference opponent in January, I would find fault.

No team/coach is beyond trying to win every game. Don't coaches and fans alike lament the teams/players who fail to come to play each night? Stop trying to make a point that isn't there...


Did you find fault when Pop played a 9 man rotation in a 15 point loss in December? Or having BB play 41 minutes and TD(with a bad wheel)/TP 39 in a December game? Why didn't he start Oberto and see what he has? I mean, the game is meaningless right? He is, after all, setting Flip up... :spin

[101A]

No team/coach is beyond trying to win every game. Don't coaches and fans alike lament the teams/players who fail to come to play each night? Stop trying to make a point that isn't there...


Did you find fault when Pop played a 9 man rotation in a 15 point loss in December? Or having BB play 41 minutes and TD(with a bad wheel)/TP 39 in a December game? Why didn't he start Oberto and see what he has? I mean, the game is meaningless right? He is, after all, setting Flip up... :spin

The quote is "He is Working Flip", not, "setting him up".

Look, until the Spurs beat Detroit handily in the finals I can continue to make points you see as baseless.

AND

Until Flip can demonstrate that he can coach a team to playoff success I will never believe that Detroit is a juggernaut.

I predicted Detroit would have HCA. They Will.

I predicted that since both games happened prior to the ASB Detroit would sweep the Spurs. They Did.

I predicted the Spurs would have HCA in the West, but barely. They will.

I predicted the Spurs would win the LOB trophy this year and lose no more than 5 games in the playoffs in doing so. We'll see.

[leemajors]

that's all well and good but you are losing the battle to lionsfan here...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The quote is "He is Working Flip", not, "setting him up".

Look, until the Spurs beat Detroit handily in the finals I can continue to make points you see as baseless.

AND

Until Flip can demonstrate that he can coach a team to playoff success I will never believe that Detroit is a juggernaut.

I predicted Detroit would have HCA. They Will.

I predicted that since both games happened prior to the ASB Detroit would sweep the Spurs. They Did.

I predicted the Spurs would have HCA in the West, but barely. They will.

I predicted the Spurs would win the LOB trophy this year and lose no more than 5 games in the playoffs in doing so. We'll see.


What's the difference with working him or setting him up/sandbagging him? Essentially, as you've proven above, they mean the same thing...

True, you can say anything you want. That doesn't mean it makes any sense...

[101A]

that's all well and good but you are losing the battle to lionsfan here...

The arguments don't have winners on losers. One of us is right, the other is wrong...only time will tell which is which.

But, you're right, I've missed on a couple of facts (big one being minutes played in the December game, and he has been sure to drive that home).

But that doesn't change my point that the Spurs are right where most on this board thought they would be right now, probably picking up steam toward the playoffs; is it any wonder that the team playing the best ball in the league, motivated to beat the Spurs, wouldn't do so? It would be surprising if it had turned out any different.

Detroit made the finals last year, and damn near won them, having started the year much worse than how the Spurs started this year.

Had they started AND finished hot last year and secured home court against SA, would they have won it all? Or would they have stumbled against Miami and not even made the finals? Don't know - but LB's approach got them a championship one year, and damn close the next. Pretty succesfull. Flip's approach is different - and it's not like we haven't seen some of his teams in the playoffs.

Granted, Detroits defense against the Spurs has been stout, but over-all their statistics are down. That is historically not the mark of a team advancing their championship aspirations. It could mean a lack of focus on the teams part, but more than likely history suggests its not as big a deal for Flip as it was for Larry. Fine, but I think that lends itself specifically to regular season, but not necessarily playoff, success.

My point is simply this: Pop is putting a higher priority on being healthy and as fresh as possible entering the playoffs than in having the best record in the league. Flip, obviously, is intent on winning every game, running for 70, or whatever - maybe that's natural; the Spurs are acting like the champs, and Detroit's acting like the challenger - but I believe it works, ultimately, to the Spurs favor.

The Spurs best regular season ever ended in the playoffs to a team they had beaten FIVE times in the regular season. Bob Hill was criticized for burning his team out, if I remember correctly.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

people fail to understand that the spurs are worse off than last year and so far with no signs of life while detroit is at least three times the team they were last year. and we barely beat detroit last year. so you're tryin to tell me if we got worse this year and they got better AND they have homecourt that we'll win?? even if we miracuously get a split in detroit i have a hard time believing we'd win all 3 at home especially considering how many times we've blown playoff leads in the past of 2-0 and stuff. also factor that in that detroit just wants it, and you can never put a measuring meter on desire. the spurs lack the killer instinct so come playoff time i wouldnt be surprised to see us get mauled by detroit in 5 or less. now yes, a lot can happen between now and june, but there is no guarantee SA will improve. detroit is rejuvenated while SA is just lethargic. and had it been the mavs or suns at 30-5 then yes, this argument woulda been different, cuz those 2 teams are "pretenders" where they have good seasons and crappy playoff showings. but this is DETROIT people. unfortunately for us, its a harsh reality

[pache100]

people fail to understand that the spurs are worse off than last year

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

They are most certainly NOT "worse off than last year", IMO. Where do you get that? If anything, they are in almost exactly the same shape now (record/stat-wise) as they were last year...but this year they have Finley and Van Exel. How in the HELL does that translate to "worse off"?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Granted, Detroits defense against the Spurs has been stout, but over-all their statistics are down. That is historically not the mark of a team advancing their championship aspirations. It could mean a lack of focus on the teams part, but more than likely history suggests its not as big a deal for Flip as it was for Larry. Fine, but I think that lends itself specifically to regular season, but not necessarily playoff, success.

My point is simply this: Pop is putting a higher priority on being healthy and as fresh as possible entering the playoffs than in having the best record in the league. Flip, obviously, is intent on winning every game, running for 70, or whatever - maybe that's natural; the Spurs are acting like the champs, and Detroit's acting like the challenger - but I believe it works, ultimately, to the Spurs favor.



I don't think Flip is the one pushing Chauncey and Co. for HCA. They've all said it repeatedly that THEY believe they would have won last year if they had HC. What's the coach supposed to do, tell his team not to play hard(?

Pop is playing his best players as many minutes as the soon-to-be worn out Pistons yet you applaud him for keeping the Spurs healthy/fresh while knocking Flip for getting his players to play too hard and winning too much...

If Pop only cared about health, why did he replace Finley with Manu in the starting lineup? Shouldn't TD be resting/playing less minutes so he can see what Oberto can do? He can't be worried about his rotation in January, can he?

It's funny you say their D stats have slipped...you exert more energy playing D...

You also forgot to mention that LB was the biggest distraction last year and some view his antics as one of the main reasons they didn't repeat...

[nkdlunch]

I don't see them as being worse off this year. They have the 2nd best record in the NBA and not breaking a sweat yet.

[leemajors]

again, i don't see why pistons fans think larry brown is a reason they didn't repeat. he may have been a big distraction, but they still got to game 7 of the finals. lb didn't tell sheed to leave horry wide open, and it is my guess he did a hell of a job motivating them in the locker room before game 6 when the city of san antonio idiotically leaked plans for a victory parade. lb may have hurt some of his players feelings but i doubt any of them would blame him for them losing the series, they all respect him as a coach.

[Tanya]

again, i don't see why pistons fans think larry brown is a reason they didn't repeat. he may have been a big distraction, but they still got to game 7 of the finals. lb didn't tell sheed to leave horry wide open, and it is my guess he did a hell of a job motivating them in the locker room before game 6 when the city of san antonio idiotically leaked plans for a victory parade. lb may have hurt some of his players feelings but i doubt any of them would blame him for them losing the series, they all respect him as a coach.

I agree. In no way we should blame Larry Brown. But now I really prefer to have Flip as the team's coach. To people who say the piston will have less chance to win this year because Flip never won anything in playoffs: EVERY COACH HAS HIS FIRST TITLE! And the pistons will probably bring Flip the first one, more than Flip will bring the pistons the title. The pistons already know how to play great defense. And it showed when they played SA twice this year. On the other side, they are unexpected good at offense. See how many games they got 100+ points this year. This is a big surprise to me. If the pistons played like the way they are playing last year, they could win the Miami more easily than they did. And they were having larger chance to repeat a title. But still~ SA is very good team. They were better than the pistons last year. But this year these two teams are at the same level.

[funkeepickle]

I predicted Detroit would have HCA. They Will.

I predicted that since both games happened prior to the ASB Detroit would sweep the Spurs. They Did.

I predicted the Spurs would have HCA in the West, but barely. They will.

I predicted the Spurs would win the LOB trophy this year and lose no more than 5 games in the playoffs in doing so. We'll see.

Aren't you special :rolleyes . Wanna cookie?

Anyways, if you think this team is much worse off because we have Flip as our coach, that's just wishful thinking. The players are the ones who score the points, not the coaches. I'm not saying that coaching doesn't have an impact, because it does. I'm just saying it has a very limited impact. Flip here has opened up the offense while retaining most of the defensive intensity. We are 31-5 (on pace for 71) and outscoring our opponents by an average of 9 points per game. None of our starters crack the top 30 in minutes played. Our starters are averaging the same minutes as last year, maybe even a little less. Our starters didn't get burned out last year, what makes you think that they're going to get burned out this year?

[pjjrfan]

It was still an ass whipping that hasn't changed. And after tonights bucks game, the Spurs rebounding problems haven't changed either. Pat Riley when he was with the Lakers use to say "NO rebounds, No rings." The Spurs have to corral this problem, because it's becoming obvious enough that teams are going after the offensive boards big time.