"Points" to consider [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

5ToolMan

01-19-2006, 09:47 PM

In the playoffs, and expecially in a potential finals series against the Pistons, I think we will see Manu getting many more minutes as the point guard. This will allow Tony to stay fresh to excell at the speed work he does best. It will also keep Bowen and Finley on the floor longer, and even allow long stretches when the Spurs can have Manu, Finley, Bowen, Rasho/Horry and Duncan all on the floor together, when Tony rests.

Talk all you want about the Piston's starters. When the Spurs step it back to what will become mainly a 7 man rotation and a few key limited moments by other reserves for support, I will gladly bet on the Spurs.

Last night we got our first real peak of a healthy Manu playing together with Finley in crunch time. I liked the preview just fine!

Spurs16212

01-19-2006, 10:05 PM

I agree to a certain extent... I believe you will see more of an eight or nine man rotation. You will have Van Exel, Finley, Horry, and Nazr (If Not Traded) in the rotation with the starters. Van Exel has a history of huge performances in big games. We all know about Finley and Horry. Nazr has come up huge as well last year and I believe he will see more minutes if he is around at the end of the season. Spurs in seven again against the Pistons.

SequSpur

01-20-2006, 01:35 AM

Yeah, lets rest Parker, the best player on the team.

:rolleyes

midgetonadonkey

01-20-2006, 01:38 AM

Does anyone see Barry getting significant minutes in the playoffs? He hasn't hit any shots this season and he is extremely overpaid.

Amuseddaysleeper

01-20-2006, 02:02 AM

restign parker wont change anything if pistons pack the lanes. parker will be exposed if you take away the lane as he has no outside shot and can't hit FT's we could be in HUGE trouble. manu will need to play out of his mind and tim HAS to hit at least 75% of his ft's for us to have a chance

oh yeah and dont forget

REBOUNDING!

Solid D

01-20-2006, 02:03 AM

Yeah, lets rest Parker, the best player on the team.

:rolleyes

The best player on who's team? France?

SequSpur

01-20-2006, 02:16 AM

The best player on who's team? France?

Spurs, blind man.

Solid D

01-20-2006, 02:33 AM

Only watching the dribbler is like a shiny object that catches your fancy.

Some day soon, your childlike crush on Tony Parker will pass and you'll discover the other aspects of the game that's played off the ball and at the defensive end of the court, as well. All-around qualities that lead to MVP awards, All-defensive team awards, and the like.

Tony is having an impressive season at the offensive end of the court.

SequSpur

01-20-2006, 02:40 AM

Solid D

01-20-2006, 02:49 AM

And your point is? Show me something meaningful for a change.

Solid D

01-20-2006, 02:53 AM

I'm going to bed now stat boy. Work me up some stats and I'll look in on them next time to see what you've done. :lol

5ToolMan

01-20-2006, 08:27 AM

Yeah, lets rest Parker, the best player on the team.

:rolleyes

I Can't do much about lack of your comprehension, except perhaps try to type real slow.

The topic of the thread had nothing to do with limiting Tony's minutes. It just spoke of having Manu handle the point more, both with Tony, and during the usual time Tony is on the pine.

I know it is tough for you to grasp simple concepts, but if you apply both of your brain cells, it may sink in. :hat

bigzak25

01-20-2006, 08:35 AM

Yeah, lets rest Parker, the best player on the team.

:rolleyes

you'll eat those words come june.

5ToolMan

01-20-2006, 08:36 AM

Does anyone see Barry getting significant minutes in the playoffs? He hasn't hit any shots this season and he is extremely overpaid.

Barry will certainly get a chance, expecially if Finley or Manu are in a dry spell. I expect the Spurs to narrow their rotation, especially the minutes of NVE, to keep more size on both ends of the floor. This could allow around 110 minutes to be split between Manu, Bowen, Finley and Barry. With Manu and Bowen around 35 each, and Finley at 30 minutes, Barry would get around 10 minutes to shine.

nkdlunch

01-20-2006, 10:37 AM

Manu will probably handle the ball more come playofss but I dont think that's the answer. I think the solution is that Parker start playing like a real PG, and stop penetrating and handling the ball so much, because in the playofs he won't be able to.

I hope he starts looking into the playoffs and realize that he will have to change his game, so the sooner the better.

SequSpur

01-20-2006, 10:47 AM

And your point is? Show me something meaningful for a change.

Watch a game.

hendrix

01-20-2006, 12:27 PM

Yeah, lets rest Parker, the best player on the team.
:rolleyes

Really Sequ. You and that big guy named after Tony should really grow up from this crush. I understand it from 1P1, the craving for tony.

Solid D

01-20-2006, 12:45 PM

Watch a game.

:lol

Okay, Sequ num 9. I'll watch a game. I just think you are enamored with the word "floater".

Solid D

01-20-2006, 04:05 PM

http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/lead_duncan_060120.jpg

Ladies and gentlemen, one of the top 2 or 3 players in the world and he's not even the best player on his team. Amazing. :spin

Melmart1

01-20-2006, 04:18 PM

I just think you are enamored with the word "floater".

Good thing I already finished eating...

samikeyp

01-20-2006, 04:35 PM

^^me too...it was mexican food pot luck day here at work...speaking of floaters! :p

1Parker1

01-20-2006, 05:55 PM

I understand it from 1P1, the craving for tony.

Well, it's not so much a craving as it is this intense need to grab him and........:makeout

:lol

leemajors

01-20-2006, 06:23 PM

tony needs to let that unibrow grow out, dont be shy..

JamStone

01-20-2006, 08:47 PM

SequSpur

01-21-2006, 02:11 AM

Where is that Solid D backpatter. Again, I continue to be right on and you continue to look like you watch to much volleyball.

STFU.

Parker is the best player on this team.

5ToolMan

01-21-2006, 09:06 AM

Nick Van Exel is cold-blooded in the playoffs when the games mean more, which will also allow for Parker to stay fresh. I don't know why it needs to be Manu who has to play the point in order for Parker to stay fresh. Van Exel is cold, man.

As to how Manu playing more point guard might affect a match-up against the Pistons, Detroit can do something similar by playing Tayshaun Prince at point forward with Rip and Delfino/Evans, just like they did on the 12th when they didn't have Arroyo.

I agree NVE will have "huge moments" in the playoffs. But my worry is his defense and his decisions can sometimes make those moments bad for the Spurs. Still, with the cold blood running through his veins, he will get some time, especially in the early rounds to shine.

That said, I feel the Spurs will be best, especially against teams with bigger or more physical guards, with the ball kept in Tony's and Manu's hands, placing more extreme pressure on the opponents the entire game.

Playing Manu at the point while Tony rests allows the Spurs to stay bigger and better on the defensive end. It also keeps the enourmous pressure of Manu's penetration, while also spreading the floor with threats of long range bombs from Manu and either Finley, Bowen and Barry in deadly combinations.

Gin N Juice

01-21-2006, 10:54 AM

Playing Manu at the point while Tony rests allows the Spurs to stay bigger and better on the defensive end. It also keeps the enourmous pressure of Manu's penetration, while also spreading the floor with threats of long range bombs from Manu and either Finley, Bowen and Barry in deadly combinations.

Right on the money Tool, I've always thought Manu could play point sufficiently especially when they need to go big. He pretty much does that at some point in the game already. He brings it up, drives to the rim drawing the the defense in, then finds the open man and hits him with an on the money pass. Thats with Tony on the floor too.

Solid D

01-21-2006, 12:23 PM

Where is that Solid D backpatter. Again, I continue to be right on and you continue to look like you watch to much volleyball.

STFU.

Parker is the best player on this team.

Sequ, when you say you continue to be "right on", you use the word "continue" liberally and quite blindly.

First of all, Tony was the best offensive player on the court last night. He had a career night and it's a good thing. He saved a W...especially with Manu and Robert out of the game, 2 guys the Spurs like to use to close-out games.

This year, Tony has been a consistently good scorer and playmaker for the Spurs. Is he their best player? Some nights he is. To say he is the Spurs' best player when you have the only player in NBA history to be named to both an All-NBA Team and an All-Defensive Team in each of his first eight seasons, makes you look like you are trying to justify wearing number 9 to bed every night.

Over the course of this season, Tim Duncan has led the team in rebounding every game except two and he has been the scoring leader a couple of more times than Tony Parker has, so I would not give the "best player" award to Tony Parker just yet. You can't exactly say that Tony anchors the defense or the middle, now can you?

Oh, and the backpatter is timvp's adaption of a wacky U.S. patent, and is now an FSP asset. If you want a backpatter for last night, you can have one. You can print it out and put it on your mantle along with your Bumper Bowling trophies and your orange participant swim meet ribbon from the 7th grade. :smokin

http://www.fullsportpress.com/backpatternew.gif

5ToolMan

01-21-2006, 02:17 PM

Right on the money Tool, I've always thought Manu could play point sufficiently especially when they need to go big. He pretty much does that at some point in the game already. He brings it up, drives to the rim drawing the the defense in, then finds the open man and hits him with an on the money pass. Thats with Tony on the floor too.

Manu's threat to drive puts great fear into the entire defense. As the defenders begin to shade over to help with expected penetration, Manu's size, exceptional site and creative passing allow him to get the ball to the shooters in their sweet spots, time and again. And, if they don't help to stop his penetration, there is not a better player in the game to take it all the way to the rack.

The shots in motion by Finley from passes off of Manu's penetration that grabbed and sealed the victory against the Bucks will be common when the Spurs let Manu penetrate with shooters spreading the floor.

GO SPurs Go

01-22-2006, 01:11 AM

In the playoffs, and expecially in a potential finals series against the Pistons, I think we will see Manu getting many more minutes as the point guard. This will allow Tony to stay fresh to excell at the speed work he does best. It will also keep Bowen and Finley on the floor longer, and even allow long stretches when the Spurs can have Manu, Finley, Bowen, Rasho/Horry and Duncan all on the floor together, when Tony rests
Wait, no I have a better idea. Why don't we start Sean marks at Pg and rest Tony parker for the season. And also lets not forget we can start Beno at PF so that Td can rest for the season. And while we're at it we can play Mohammed at SF so that Manu can rest. (Tell me the truth what kind of drug are you on, since when has Manu played PG. He either plays SG or SF.) I don't have the time to back this up but i'm positive that there are no players of Manu's height that play PG.

JamStone

01-22-2006, 11:46 AM

Wait, no I have a better idea. Why don't we start Sean marks at Pg and rest Tony parker for the season. And also lets not forget we can start Beno at PF so that Td can rest for the season. And while we're at it we can play Mohammed at SF so that Manu can rest. (Tell me the truth what kind of drug are you on, since when has Manu played PG. He either plays SG or SF.) I don't have the time to back this up but i'm positive that there are no players of Manu's height that play PG.

Last year when Popovich got frustrated with Beno Udrih's turnovers, Manu played quite a few minutes as the back-up point guard, where he would bring the ball up and initiate the offense. In fact, he it was even in the playoffs.

As for other players Manu's height that play PG, JOE JOHNSON (6-7) started the season logging a lot of minutes at point guard, SHAUN LIVINGSTON (6-7) plays exclusively point guard for the LA Clippers, MARKO JARIC (6-5 to 6-7, depending what sources you read) starts at point guard for the Timberwolves, both JALEN ROSE (6-8) and JOHN SALMONS (6-7) haved played the point guard position for their respective teams, BORIS DIAW (6-9) is one of the primary ball-handlers for the Phoenix Suns when Steve Nash is not in the game. And, don't forget that perhaps the best point to ever play the game, Magic Johnson, was 6-9.

SequSpur

01-22-2006, 11:49 AM

When Manu can come back and play for a few games, we can discuss his assets to the team.

Right now, he is the Grant Hill of the Spurs.

Solid D

01-22-2006, 11:29 PM

Parker didn't do much today ...and neither did the best player on the team.

Tony 13 pts., 7 assists, 3 TOs
Tim 14 pts. 13 rebounds, 6 TOs

T Park

01-22-2006, 11:41 PM

I thought Parker was pretty passive today.

Should've been more agressive in taking shit to the hole.

If Ginobili had played though, alot of that opens up, duncan wouldn't have been constantly doubled, and Parker wouldn't have had 3 guys on him inside the 3 point line.

5ToolMan

01-26-2006, 09:47 AM

SequSpur

01-26-2006, 09:50 AM

What a dimwit you are. Manu often is given the rock at the top of the key and left to create the offense off his penetration or dishes. This has happened with increasing frequency since 2004 and was the regular plan of action to finish games in last years playoffs. At those many moments, Manu is running the point guard position.

Ummm.... Rasho gets the ball at the top of the key also....

The Spurs run a high low offense.

5ToolMan

01-26-2006, 10:26 AM

Ummm.... Rasho gets the ball at the top of the key also....

The Spurs run a high low offense.

If you want to argue that Manu never runs the point, get to it ... and you will again be left in the dust. Don't throw up weak trash like, "Rasho gets the ball at the top of the key" like their is any comparason in under the conditions and roles he and Manu play when they have the ball.

Let's start with a simple matter. In your view, does Manu sometimes run the point for the Spurs? If your answer is no, get ready to be schooled. If you answer is yes, STFU with your pointless baiting.

Peter

01-26-2006, 11:23 AM

NVE
Manu
Finley
Horry
Duncan

Who do you leave? That is the question the Spurs will be asking come June.

5ToolMan

01-26-2006, 01:08 PM

NVE
Manu
Finley
Horry
Duncan

Who do you leave? That is the question the Spurs will be asking come June.

It will all be about matchups, injuries and hot hands. Any of the above could have huge moments during the potential playoff run. In my view, the Spurs are deep enough to get through the West without Manu and without Tim at full strength. But if both teams advance, against the Pistons they will need both Tim and Manu at their best.

I also don't expect as much from NVE against the Pistons, because the extra length of more Manu, Barry and Finley will be essential on both sides of the ball. However, if NVE gets an opportunity to hit some huge shots, I would not bet against him having an impact.

Peter

01-26-2006, 02:15 PM

The problem for the Spurs is that they need a frontline that will keep them in a game versus the Pistons until crunchtime.

SequSpur

01-26-2006, 02:29 PM

If you want to argue that Manu never runs the point, get to it ... and you will again be left in the dust. Don't throw up weak trash like, "Rasho gets the ball at the top of the key" like their is any comparason in under the conditions and roles he and Manu play when they have the ball.

Let's start with a simple matter. In your view, does Manu sometimes run the point for the Spurs? If your answer is no, get ready to be schooled. If you answer is yes, STFU with your pointless baiting.

Of course Manu runs the offense at times... my point is everyone gets the ball at the top.

As for school, try watching a spurs game and every offensive set except for transition starts at the top either by Bowen, Duncan, Rasho, Muhammed, Barry, whatever...

Manu doesn't even play, again he is becoming the Grant Hill of the Spurs.

He can't help the team if he is injured all the time.

WTF.

implacable44

01-26-2006, 02:34 PM

Yeah, lets rest Parker, the best player on the team.

:rolleyes

since when ???

himat

01-26-2006, 04:08 PM

The problem for the Spurs is that they need a frontline that will keep them in a game versus the Pistons until crunchtime.

nazr does a good job of getting extra possesions. the differene is that unlike last year rasheed wallace is really motivated. he's one of the best players when he plays his game.

leemajors

01-26-2006, 04:47 PM

that and the spurs missed a lot of jump shots.

5ToolMan

01-26-2006, 05:41 PM

Of course Manu runs the offense at times... my point is everyone gets the ball at the top.

As for school, try watching a spurs game and every offensive set except for transition starts at the top either by Bowen, Duncan, Rasho, Muhammed, Barry, whatever...

Manu doesn't even play, again he is becoming the Grant Hill of the Spurs.

He can't help the team if he is injured all the time.

WTF.

So what you are saying, is you had no point when you spewed your trash. Like we don't already all know that. :smokin

I do watch many Spurs games. More than enough to know that I'm not the one getting confused about who would be considered sometimes running the point in the Spurs offense between Manu and Rasho.

Comparing Manu's games missed to injury to Grant's is like some idiot trying to compare Beno's ability to score to Kobe's, using current statistics. I am sure many can identify you with one trying to make such a comparison.

No move along little one. Your again trashing up the board for those with something of merit to say.

Solid D

01-26-2006, 05:56 PM

Ummm.... Rasho gets the ball at the top of the key also....

The Spurs run a high low offense.

Where do I begin with this one? At least you noticed floor positioning.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00009KX45.16._SCLZZZZZZZ_SS260_.jpg

5ToolMan

01-26-2006, 06:06 PM

The problem for the Spurs is that they need a frontline that will keep them in a game versus the Pistons until crunchtime.

In all due respect, in my view you completly miss why the Pistons so easily handled the Spurs ... so far. I say so far, becasue given time to heel and develop, I think the Spurs have more than enough on the interior, the perimeter and the bench to slay the mighty Pistons.

Tim's lack of mobility, Manu's injury and Spurs adjusting to new pieces have impacted the games much more than any long term weakness in the frontline. Granted, Tim's lack of mobility has greatly effected the Spurs frontline, but somehow I don't think that is all you speak about.

If the Spurs perimeter can stay in front of their man a step or two more on penetration, Big Ben's offense is very limited. The perimeter also needs to do a better job of reading when they must help block off the defensive boards, or get out on the break early to make their man pay if they wrongly go to the boards when the interior has rebounding position sealed.

The Spurs perimeter needs to first seal off the boards. But as soon as they see the Spurs interior has achieved position, they need to spring out and make the Pistons commit to stopping their running. The ability to get out on the break will give the Spurs needed easy baskets, and more importantly make the Pistons perimenter and interior more cautious of getting back than of crashing their offensive boards.

leemajors

01-26-2006, 06:18 PM

that may be too much info for peter, his thought process is centered around trashing rasho.

5ToolMan

01-26-2006, 06:21 PM

that may be too much info for peter, his thought process is centered around trashing rasho.

I was redundent in the last two paragraphs. Perhaps that helped. :elephant

Peter

01-26-2006, 09:09 PM

With all due respect the Spurs were obliterated by the Pistons on the glass in their two meetings this season. It's going to take more than good health to contend with that in the postseason.

5ToolMan

01-26-2006, 10:16 PM

With all due respect the Spurs were obliterated by the Pistons on the glass in their two meetings this season. It's going to take more than good health to contend with that in the postseason.

Even with a gimpy Duncan, the Spurs more than held their own against the Pistons in last years finals.

Unless you are foolish enough to try to give Nazr all the credit, and Rasho all the blame for the difference in rebounding, perhaps you might want to consider other reasons.

The Spurs problems on rebounding this year are not that simple, nor is the adjustment that big of a fix. Against the Pistons, I like more size and one on one defensive ability on the perimeter. That is why I started this thread about increasing minutes for Manu, Bowen, Barry and Finley at the expense of NVE. Increased size, better one on one perimeter defense, keeps the interior defenders from shifting too early, and sills off offensive rebounding lanes.

Manu and Barry and even Bowen and Finley to a lessor extent are very strong, either with Parker or why he is resting in being able to get out on the break. This will also do wonders to get the Pistons off their offensive glass.