Katrina Determined To Strike The U.S.

[Nbadan]

The Homeland Security Department was warned a day before Hurricane Katrina hit that the storm's surge could breach levees and leave New Orleans flooded for weeks or months, documents released Monday show.

An Aug. 28 report by the department's National Infrastructure Simulation and Analysis Center concluded that a Category 4 or 5 hurricane would cause severe damage in the city, including power outages and a direct economic hit of up to $10 billion for the first week.

"Overall, the impacts described herein are conservative," stated the report, which was sent to Homeland Security's office for infrastructure protection.

"Any storm rated Category 4 or greater ... will likely lead to severe flooding and/or levee breaching, leaving the New Orleans metro area submerged for weeks or months," said the report, which was released by a Senate panel examining the government's breakdown in responding to Katrina.

The documents are the latest indication that the federal government knew beforehand of the catastrophic damage that a storm of Katrina's magnitude could cause.

Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-katrina-levees,0,3658995.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines)

I'm sure that sooner or later, Condi will classify this report as 'historical'.

Nevermind that the FEDS actually knew for a year before Katrina the effects a CAT4+ hurricane would have on the city of NO and the state of Louisiana.


WASHINGTON -- Senators lambasted the Bush administration on Tuesday for failing to heed devastating predictions from a hurricane preparedness test that began a year before Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast.

The top Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee also accused the White House of trying to block or delay the panel's inquiry into the government's sluggish response to Katrina.

The preparedness exercise that began in July 2004, dubbed Hurricane Pam, warned that a Category 3 storm would overwhelm the New Orleans area with flood waters, killing up to 60,000 people and destroying buildings and roads. State and federal officials were concluding Pam's findings when Katrina, an actual Category 4 storm, roared ashore on Aug. 29.

"As a dry run for the real thing, Pam should have been a wake-up call that could not be ignored," said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, chair of the Senate committee's examination of Pam's findings at a Tuesday hearing. "Instead, it is apparent that a more appropriate name for Pam should have been 'Cassandra' - the mythical prophet who warned of disasters but whom no one believed."

Seattle PI (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1153AP_Katrina_Levees.html)

Nothing to see here folks, move along.


:hat

[FromWayDowntown]

Apparently, nobody was prepared for Katrina or any storm like her. The slow response time to the true ramifications of that storm was horrendous. The feds weren't ready, the state wasn't ready, the city wasn't ready, and even the people weren't ready. But even if the feds or the state or the city had been in place the night before the storm hit, it wouldn't have stopped the levees from breaching and it wouldn't have stopped the flooding.

I can see the argument that it might have been possible to get more people out or to, perhaps, find them more suitable accommodations, but are you saying, dan, that the federal government should have been able to mobilize that sort of effort with one day's notice? As I recall, forecasts didn't have Katrina striking anywhere near New Orleans until a day or two before the storm hit. I can't imagine that anyone would rationally think the federal government should have an emergency plan to implement in a particular American city in case of a particular sort of event. If this was a Kerry Administration, I'm not sure you'd be so willing to place blame on the White House for poorly-organized local evacuations.

[Chairman Kim]

Don't forget the Bush families life long ties to Hurricane Katrina.

[Nbadan]

Apparently, nobody was prepared for Katrina or any storm like her. The slow response time to the true ramifications of that storm was horrendous. The feds weren't ready, the state wasn't ready, the city wasn't ready, and even the people weren't ready. But even if the feds or the state or the city had been in place the night before the storm hit, it wouldn't have stopped the levees from breaching and it wouldn't have stopped the flooding.

I can see the argument that it might have been possible to get more people out or to, perhaps, find them more suitable accommodations, but are you saying, dan, that the federal government should have been able to mobilize that sort of effort with one day's notice? As I recall, forecasts didn't have Katrina striking anywhere near New Orleans until a day or two before the storm hit. I can't imagine that anyone would rationally think the federal government should have an emergency plan to implement in a particular American city in case of a particular sort of event. If this was a Kerry Administration, I'm not sure you'd be so willing to place blame on the White House for poorly-organized local evacuations.

I would hope that the Kerry Administration would have taken the results from the aforementioned Hurricane report more seriously, as well as, like-predictions of the very same nature from reputable engineers that have been around since NO was built below sea-level. I'm not asking for a miracle here, and I'm not naive to the fact that Government works slow, but then FEMA director Michael Brown gave FEMA Disaster relief personnel and even his own FEMA Directors of emergency relief, two days to get to NO after Katrina struck and the levees started collapsing. That is simply unexcusable. I believe even the most inept Democratic administration can do better.

[xrayzebra]

I would hope that the Kerry Administration would have taken the results from the aforementioned Hurricane report more seriously, as well as, like-predictions of the very same nature from reputable engineers that have been around since NO was built below sea-level. I'm not asking for a miracle here, and I'm not naive to the fact that Government works slow, but then FEMA director Michael Brown gave FEMA Disaster relief personnel and even his own FEMA Directors of emergency relief, two days to get to NO after Katrina struck and the levees started collapsing. That is simply unexcusable. I believe even the most inept Democratic administration can do better.

Just one question: What were the locals doing during those two days?

[FromWayDowntown]

I would hope that the Kerry Administration would have taken the results from the aforementioned Hurricane report more seriously, as well as, like-predictions of the very same nature from reputable engineers that have been around since NO was built below sea-level. I'm not asking for a miracle here, and I'm not naive to the fact that Government works slow, but then FEMA director Michael Brown gave FEMA Disaster relief personnel and even his own FEMA Directors of emergency relief, two days to get to NO after Katrina struck and the levees started collapsing. That is simply unexcusable. I believe even the most inept Democratic administration can do better.

But what would they have done? By that Saturday, the physical destruction of New Orleans was pretty much inevitable.

I don't think anyone disputes that the tragic consequences of a big hurricane hitting New Orleans were fairly well-known. The White House may have downplayed that initially to try to save it's own bacon in a firestorm, but ultimately, I don't think the dire nature of the prediction can be disputed. But again, what does that have to do with the situation that resulted?

If your concern is for a lack of attention to the problematic nature of the pre-Katrina infrastructure of New Orleans, that's not a problem that can be placed entirely at the feet of the current White House without assigning the same blame to every previous administration. And I don't think you can pin this on the Bushies by citing on a memorandum dated one day before Katrina hit. Was FEMA supposed to go out and shore up levees that weekend?

I mean, are you trying to suggest that the federal government should have taken heed of that prediction and federalized an emergency management plan for evacuating New Orleans in that circumstance? Again, why federal and not state and local governments? And what would have been enough? Should the federal government have dictated that New Orleans be evacuated in the instance that any hurricane that might reach category 3+ strength had a better than, say, 40% possibility of striking New Orleans?

Complaining that there was a generally slow response to Katrina is understandable, but I'm not exactly sure what the point of a pre-Katrina memorandum is in trying to make that point. I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't understand what the importance of the information you cited is to the blame game that you want to play. Please explain that to me so that we can discuss your point intelligently.

[Extra Stout]

Nevermind that the FEDS actually knew for a year before Katrina the effects a CAT4+ hurricane would have on the city of NO and the state of Louisiana.
Clearly a Democratic Administration would have had jets scrambled to intercept Hurricane Katrina and prevent it from hitting New Orleans.

By the way, the government already knows that if the supervolcano under Yellowstone blows, the entire American West will be devastated. They also know that if a meteor less than a kilometer wide hits Manhattan, 15 million people will die. I'm sure if a Republican is President when either of those things happen, you will blame him for the disaster.

[SA210]

Just one question: What were the locals doing during those two days?
Just One question, what was Bush doing during those four days?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_hurricane_cake.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_enduringvacation.jpg

[FromWayDowntown]

I am constantly amazed at how much power people seem to think is reposed in a President elected from their opposite party. I still am not sure that I understand what Bush and the White House were supposed to do about Katrina to avoid claims of negligence.

The federal government has every reason to think that state and local governments will handle the development and execution of localized emergency plans. The problem with Katrina was: (1) nobody realized it was going to hit New Orleans until very late in the process; and (2) the state and local governments did a poor job of explaining the serious nature of the hurricane and developing plans for people to get out of the most vulnerable areas. The feds response was slower than it should have been, that is true. But the problems associated with a slow response were exacerbated not only by anything that the feds did, but also by the first-instance problems at the local and state levels.

Again, it's not as if the White House could have done anything to keep Katrina away from that part of the Gulf Coast. And it's not as if the Administration could have done anything to stop the flooding in New Orleans -- that problem built up over years with blame lying at the feet of every administration from both parties for the last several decades.

[gtownspur]

Just One question, what was Bush doing during those four days?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_hurricane_cake.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_enduringvacation.jpg


SA210's response:
"Bush should have gotten on his Team America Fuck yeah!! chopper along with all the US gold medalist and bust a Kung Fu on Katrina."

:lmao

[Nbadan]

If your concern is for a lack of attention to the problematic nature of the pre-Katrina infrastructure of New Orleans, that's not a problem that can be placed entirely at the feet of the current White House without assigning the same blame to every previous administration. And I don't think you can pin this on the Bushies by citing on a memorandum dated one day before Katrina hit. Was FEMA supposed to go out and shore up levees that weekend?

I mean, are you trying to suggest that the federal government should have taken heed of that prediction and federalized an emergency management plan for evacuating New Orleans in that circumstance? Again, why federal and not state and local governments? And what would have been enough? Should the federal government have dictated that New Orleans be evacuated in the instance that any hurricane that might reach category 3+ strength had a better than, say, 40% possibility of striking New Orleans?

In my posts, I have criticized the City of NO for not better preparing a emergency evacuation plan, especially the vulnerable lower-ninth ward, given the likely-hood of a CAT4+ hurricane striking the city (it was no surprise to me or to you, I told you it would happen almost a year before). However, Homeland Security became the number one national issue after 911, and the Bush Administration hurriedly spent billions of dollars in Red States to help protect cows against phantom threats, and not the $3-4 billion dollars it would have taken to reenforce the NO levees against a breach (a real national security threat) or help finance a State plan to evacuate the people who couldn't afford to evacuate on their own.

The report just reenforces that everyone knew this was gonna be bad, even if NO received only 3+ Hurricane bands, due mostly to storm surge, but nobody did anything in the immediate after-math of the hurricane striking. Before the levees broke, the MSM celebrated that NO had been spared by a last second shift in the path of the Hurricane, but now we know that anyone who had seen the analysis of Hurricane Pam knew that the real danger for the City of NO came long after the hurricane-strength winds had subsided.

A slow response is one thing, what we are talking about here is a completely negligent response. Perhaps no better example of the Government's complete ineptness in reacting to this crisis can be found than the 2 college students who drove from Baton Rouge to NO in a two-wheeled Hyndai packed with emergency relief supplies, and wound-up evacuting 5 people from NO. Where was the Army? Where was the NG? Oh, that's right, Iraq.

[gtownspur]

^^WOw dan,

it all slipped passed you.

First of all..

NO had money to fix the levees, second they were not spending the money on rebuilding the levees.

Third, Wtf do you have to invent stupid phantom cattle stories about Red states, when most of the money of homeland security went to Blue states and heavily urban cities and not rural areas.

ANd who gives a flying fuck about those college students. It's great that they helped, but that proves nothing becuase more than likely the students only had to rescue the people who were easier to access. The millitary had to plan infastructure and resources to even begin the rescue effort. And once they began the rescue mission, they have to go into the hardest hit areas which were virtually impossible to access. I bet that hyundai would of done squat.

But no, lets use an innocent act of charity to politicize the war. in my view that's not charity, that's oppurtunism.

BUt who cares if the army was in Iraq. The army is all over the world, there was enough of the National Guard in the US to complete the task.

[Nbadan]

NO had money to fix the levees, second they were not spending the money on rebuilding the levees.

Louisiana politics have been crooked since long before Nagin and Blanco came into power, and that includes spending money on pet-projects that should have been spent strenghtening levees. Fact is, the portions of the levee that broke were parts that had recently been reenforced with concrete barriers instead of the old earthened dams that did not fail - some Louisiana contractor continues to walk around with a lot of blood money in his pockets, but I degress. The Mayor failed, the Governor seemed frozen in her tracks, and the FEDS for the first time ever since Dubya was appointed, respected State's rights.