Still believe that there were never any WMD's?

[IceColdBrewski]

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514?page_no=1




"The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria.""

[IceColdBrewski]

http://www.ambassadoragency.com/resources/01225/00001.pdf

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, uncorroborated testimony from anonymous sources!

I'm convinced!

[Nbadan]

Some analysis of the Sada developments:


FOX News Finds The Missing Iraqi Weapons Of Mass Destruction

One of the guests last night on Hannity & Colmes claimed to know that Saddam Hussein shipped his weapons of mass destruction to Syria in the summer of 2002. His name is General Georges Sada, and he is the author of a new book, “Saddam’s Secrets,” that just happens to be published by FOX News sister company, HarperCollins. I’d expect this to be major, major news on FNC. So why did they wait until 45 minutes into the hour to do just a brief interview with Sada?

Hannity described Sada as one of the top military advisers to Saddam and “the only man that disagreed with the dictator and lived to tell about it.” As Sada told it, Saddam Hussein “took advantage of a natural disaster,” i.e. a broken dam in Syria, to move the weapons out. Sada knows this because he has friends who were captains in the Iraqi Air Force. Sada said the weapons went to Damascus. Under further questioning from Bob Beckel, sitting in for Colmes, Sada said that Iraq had no nuclear weapons and had long since had its nuclear capabilities destroyed.

Sada claims to have been No. 2 in the Air Force but he is still living in Iraq. I did a Google search of Sada and found that he is a staunch supporter of the US invasion. Hmm. A high-ranking Saddam Hussein official who now supports Bush? The pieces just don’t seem to fit together here. Anybody know anything about this guy?

News Hounds (http://www.newshounds.us/2006/01/26/fox_news_finds_the_missing_iraqi_weapons_of_mass_d estruction.php)

When considering these new accusations, keep in mind that the NY Sun is the Newspaper right-wing version of Fox News

[smeagol]

USA should invade Syria and find those damn WMDs!

[Spurminator]

I never trust anyone with a book being released.

[Nbadan]

I never trust anyone with a book being released.

Least of all a man with ties to the current administration who stands to make millions off of claims that can not be verified, but helps the NeoCon cause for war with Syria.

[Dos]

the proof democrats are afraid to question..... from the Official David Kay report

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html

[Dos]

Why are we having such difficulty in finding weapons or in reaching a confident conclusion that they do not exist or that they once existed but have been removed? Our search efforts are being hindered by six principal factors:

From birth all of Iraq's WMD activities were highly compartmentalized within a regime that ruled and kept its secrets through fear and terror and with deception and denial built into each program;

Deliberate dispersal and destruction of material and documentation related to weapons programs began pre-conflict and ran trans-to-post conflict;

Post-OIF looting destroyed or dispersed important and easily collectable material and forensic evidence concerning Iraq's WMD program. As the report covers in detail, significant elements of this looting were carried out in a systematic and deliberate manner, with the clear aim of concealing pre-OIF activities of Saddam's regime;

Some WMD personnel crossed borders in the pre/trans conflict period and may have taken evidence and even weapons-related materials with them;

Any actual WMD weapons or material is likely to be small in relation to the total conventional armaments footprint and difficult to near impossible to identify with normal search procedures. It is important to keep in mind that even the bulkiest materials we are searching for, in the quantities we would expect to find, can be concealed in spaces not much larger than a two car garage;

The environment in Iraq remains far from permissive for our activities, with many Iraqis that we talk to reporting threats and overt acts of intimidation and our own personnel being the subject of threats and attacks. In September alone we have had three attacks on ISG facilities or teams: The ISG base in Irbil was bombed and four staff injured, two very seriously; a two person team had their vehicle blocked by gunmen and only escaped by firing back through their own windshield; and on Wednesday, 24 September, the ISG Headquarters in Baghdad again was subject to mortar attack.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So the author of "A Million Little Pieces" is writing under a pseudonym?

[ChumpDumper]

It is important to keep in mind that even the bulkiest materials we are searching for, in the quantities we would expect to find, can be concealed in spaces not much larger than a two car garageOr 56 passenger planes, depending on which author you're going to pimp this week.

[IceColdBrewski]

[Yawn] I guess all we're going to get is the same boring one-liners and sarcasm reserved for evading a topic.

Funny stuff though. Had this Iraqi General come out stating that WMD's never existed, these same yahoos would be screaming "I TOLD YOU SO!" from the highest mountain tops.

We're talking about a guy (Saddam) who buried his entire air fleet in the desert to keep us from finding it. Yet somehow, some people can't wrap their brains around the possibity of him hiding his cache of WMD's. Hilarious.

[2centsworth]

[Yawn] I guess all we're going to get is the same boring one-liners and sarcasm reserved for evading a topic.

Funny stuff though. Had this Iraqi General come out stating that WMD's never existed, these same yahoos would be screaming "I TOLD YOU SO!" from the highest mountain tops.

We're talking about a guy (Saddam) who buried his entire air fleet in the desert to keep us from finding it. Yet somehow, some people can't wrap their brains around the possibity of him hiding his cache of WMD's. Hilarious.The war is the evils of capitalism versus the virtues of socialism/communism.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

When considering these new accusations, keep in mind that the NY Sun is the Newspaper right-wing version of Fox News

Yet you had no problem quoting Fat Bastard (Michael Moore). Hypocritical as usual, Dan.

[Nbadan]

the proof democrats are afraid to question..... from the Official David Kay report

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html

:rolleyes

Not that David Kay ever stopped pimping himself for the NeoCons (Iraqi Survey Group), right?


Before the 2003 war, as U.S. government officials were pushing the idea that Saddam Hussein was in possession of WMD, many people would direct reporters toward David Kay to reinforce their point of view. In September 2002, Kay told U.S. News & World Report that “Iraq stands in clear violation of international orders to rid itself of these weapons.” His credibility as a former U.N. weapons inspector convinced many observers.

On January 23, 2004, Kay was replaced in his role by Charles Duelfer and spent the following days discussing his discoveries and opinions with the news media and the United States political establishment. He testified on January 28, 2004 that “[i]t turns out that we were all wrong” and “I believe that the effort that has been directed to this point has been sufficiently intense that it is highly unlikely that there were large stockpiles of deployed, militarized chemical weapons there.” However, Kay defended the Bush administration, saying that even if Iraq did not have weapons stockpiles, this did not mean the nation wasn't dangerous. Kay also blamed faulty intelligence gathering for the prewar WMD conclusions. On February 2, 2004, Kay met with George W. Bush at the White House and maintained that Bush was right to go to war in Iraq and characterized Saddam Hussein's government as “far more dangerous than even we anticipated” when it was thought he had WMDs ready to deploy.

Testimony Before House and Senate Committees

In testimony on the progress of the Iraq Survey Group on October 2, 2003 he revealed to House and Senate committees that the ISG had found that Iraq had a network of clandestine laboratories containing equipment that should have been (but was not) disclosed to the UN inspectors. He also said that the ISG found an undeclared prison laboratory complex and an undeclared Unmanned Aerial Vehicle production facility. The Iraq Survey Group also found out that a UAV had been test-flown out to a range of 500 kilometers even though the agreed upon limit was 150 kilometers. Iraq lied to the UN about the range of that particular UAV, Kay said.

He testified that Iraq had done research on Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever and Brucella but had not declared this to the UN. Iraq also continued R&D work on anthrax and ricin without declaring it to the UN.

ISG found nuclear research materials and centrifuge parts hidden in the home of an Iraqi nuclear scientist (see Mahdi Obeidi).

Kay told the commitees that between 1999 and 2002 Iraq attempted to obtain missile technology from North Korea that would allow them to build missiles with a range of 1300 kilometers, far beyond the UN limit of 150 kilometers that Iraq agreed upon in UN Resolution 687. They also sought anti-ship missiles with a range of 300 kilometers from North Korea.

"With regard to delivery systems, the ISG team has discovered sufficient evidence to date to conclude that the Iraqi regime was committed to delivery system improvements that would have, if OIF had not occurred, dramatically breached UN restrictions placed on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War," Kay testified.

Subsequent Interviews

After the interview, Kay told National Public Radio that Iraq "had a large number of WMD program-related activities." He said "So there was a WMD program. It was going ahead. It was rudimentary in many areas." Kay also said that Iraq had been trying to weaponize ricin "right up until" Operation Iraqi Freedom. He also told NPR that Iraq had retooled its nuclear program in 2000 and 2001. He also said that Iraq had began retooling its nuclear program in 2000 and 2001. [3]

WIKIPEDIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kay)

:lol Excuse me if I don't take anything Kay says seriously.

[Nbadan]

Funny stuff though. Had this Iraqi General come out stating that WMD's never existed, these same yahoos would be screaming "I TOLD YOU SO!" from the highest mountain tops.

Been there, but nobody took him seriously, so he went back to Iraq and he was excuted by Saddam's secret police.

[Nbadan]

We're talking about a guy (Saddam) who buried his entire air fleet in the desert to keep us from finding it. Yet somehow, some people can't wrap their brains around the possibity of him hiding his cache of WMD's. Hilarious.

It's not that it's not possible, just that it's not probable. These weapons have a very short shelf-lives, are enviromental hazards, difficult to get rid of, and are unnecessary, mostly because Syria already has the pathogons needed to create their own WMD's if they wanted too.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Way to duck my response you pussy.


These weapons have a very short shelf-lives

Well if all you're doing is selling them to bin Laden for 50 million so he can go blow up the west, what do you care if you're Assad?

[Nbadan]

Why, wasn't it just this past April that the ISG was saying there was no way Iraq shipped it's WMD's to Syria?

US study: Iraq likely didn't ship WMD to Syria


It is unlikely Iraq shipped banned weapons material into Syria before the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, according to report released by the Iraq Survey Group.

Cnn (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/04/26/iraq.main)

So, what was David Kay saying?


Iraq had no WMD program to give to Syria, says Kay (bush's US weapons inspector pal)

ISN (http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=8211)

Colin Powell?? he's got to be on board, right?


Powell: No Evidence - Not Even Any Motive - for Iraq WMD Stash in Syria
"I don't know why the Syrians would do that, frankly: why it would be in their interest. They didn't have that kind of relationship with Iraq."

US Embassy (http://www.usembassy.it/file2004_01/alia/A4012101.htm)

Ok, The Senate and the CIA..they think the WMD's are in Syria, right?


U.S. intelligence found no evidence WMD moved from Iraq

But intelligence and congressional officials say they have not seen any information — never "a piece," said one — indicating that WMD or significant amounts of components and equipment were transferred from Iraq to neighboring Syria, Jordan or elsewhere.

San Francisco Gate (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/01/16/national0201EST0409.DTL)

[Yonivore]

These weapons have a very short shelf-lives
I take it this was Nbadan speaking?

One question. What does he know of the weapons Iraq moved to Syria? I think the NSA needs to start listening to your conversations Dan.

[Nbadan]

I take it this was Nbadan speaking?

One question. What does he know of the weapons Iraq moved to Syria? I think the NSA needs to start listening to your conversations Dan.

As many times as I Google George Bush + Abramoff - they probably already are.

:lol

[2centsworth]

if the same gen had come out and said there were no wmds, then we'd never here about it because that's all they've been saying from day oneis a little intellectual honesty too much to ask?

just in case you forgot. http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/

[Nbadan]

is a little intellectual honesty too much to ask?

just in case you forgot. http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/

http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/attack.jpg

The funny thing is, is that Republicans critcized Clinton for taking action, I believe the term was 'wag the dog', to try and force Saddam back into full UN weapon's inspection compliance, which he subsequently did any way, but not that it mattered.

[2centsworth]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/attack.jpg

The funny thing is, is that Republicans critcized Clinton for taking action, I believe the term was 'wag the dog', to try and force Saddam back into full UN weapon's inspection compliance, which he subsequently did any way, but not that it mattered.
not saying the either party is immune to intellectual dishonesty. I'm just gonna call people on it on this board.

[Nbadan]

not saying the either party is immune to intellectual dishonesty. I'm just gonna call people on it on this board.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think it was very convenient that the Bartlett Report Conservatives were wetting their panties over, turned up no dirt at all on Hillary Clinton, which let's face facts, was the real target of the Special Counsel's investigation years ago

[gtownspur]

Not all of it was allowed to be released.

[Nbadan]

Not all of it was allowed to be released.

:rolleyes

The guy spent $21 dollars in 10+ years, you think he was gonna let a little thing like censorship stop him?

[2centsworth]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think it was very convenient that the Bartlett Report Conservatives were wetting their panties over, turned up no dirt at all on Hillary Clinton, which let's face facts, was the real target of the Special Counsel's investigation years ago
what does this have to do with WMDs which was the topic at hand?

[JoePublic]

Why are we re-hashing this topic?

Bush was wrong.

[2centsworth]

Why are we re-hashing this topic?

Bush was wrong.
Have you read the thread or are you another zombie with canned responses.

[xrayzebra]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think it was very convenient that the Bartlett Report Conservatives were wetting their panties over, turned up no dirt at all on Hillary Clinton, which let's face facts, was the real target of the Special Counsel's investigation years ago

121 missing pages. Does that twek your interest Nbadan rather?

Thought not. I think the report said alot about the corrupt Clinton
administration. I know he only got a head job while on the telephone.
He was gifted. Bet you cant do that. :lol

[2centsworth]

121 missing pages. Does that twek your interest Nbadan rather?

Thought not. I think the report said alot about the corrupt Clinton
administration. I know he only got a head job while on the telephone.
He was gifted. Bet you cant do that. :lolDan is obviously well versed in the "Art of War". He's changing the subject from the Democrats being gun ho about Iraq having WMDs to the Barlett Report. Fact remains the majority of Democrats said the same thing about WMDs in '98 with operation desert fox as the republicans said in '02.

[spurster]

Just more "crying wolf". To be intellectually honest, nearly no WMDs have been found. The US has used far, far more WMD-like weapons in Iraq (such as "shake and bake") than have been found. Before the war, this administration claimed to "know where they are". Now we know they are in Syria? We are supposed to believe this Iraqi informant?

As for what Clinton said, I stopped believing whatever he said in his first term and focused on what he did. Ditto for Bush.

[2centsworth]

As for what Clinton said, I stopped believing whatever he said in his first term and focused on what he did. .he bombed Iraq to stop them from using their WMDs.