Rank Ignorance Reigns

[Nbadan]

http://joevialls.net/images/poison.jpg
Disinformation is the real enemy

Rank Ignorance Reigns
by Paul Craig Roberts


In keeping with its established role as purveyor of disinformation, Fox "News" talking head Brit Hume misreported Fox’s own poll. On "Special Report" (January 26) Hume said that 51% of Americans "would now support" air strikes on Iran. What the poll found is that if diplomacy fails, 51% would support air strikes.

Can we be optimistic and assume that the American public would not regard an orchestrated failure by the Bush administration as a true diplomatic failure? Alas, we cannot expect too much from a population in thrall to disinformation.

The "evidence" that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons consists of mere assertion by members of the Bush administration and the neoconservative media. Iran says it is not pursuing nuclear weapons, and the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have found no evidence of a weapons program.

Iran is a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Under the treaty, signatories have the right to develop nuclear energy. All they are required to do is to make reports to the IAEA and keep their facilities open to inspection. Iran complies with these requirements.

There is no Iranian "defiance." When news media report "defiance," they purvey disinformation. The "seals" on Iranian nuclear facilities were placed there voluntarily by the Iranians while they attempted to resolve the false charges brought by the Bush administration.

The "Iran crisis" is entirely the product of the Bush administration’s determination to deprive Iran of its rights as a signatory of the non-proliferation treaty. It is one more demonstration of President Bush’s belief that his policies are not constrained by fact, law and international treaties.

Despite the clear and unambiguous facts, the Fox/Opinion Dynamics poll reports that 60% of Republicans, 41% of Independents, and 36% of Democrats support using air strikes and ground troops against Iran in order to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. This poll indicates an appalling extent of ignorance and misinformation among the American public. The Bush administration will take advantage of this ignorance to initiate another war in the Middle East.

A majority of Americans have now been deceived twice on the same issue. Just as there was no evidence that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons, there is no evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. There is nothing but unproven assertions, assertions, moreover, that are contradicted by the evidence that does exist. Americans, it would appear, are so eager for wars that they welcome being fooled into them.

Lew Rockwell (http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts145.html)

1.2.3.4....What are we fighting for?

http://lmno4p.org/images/war/03.30_basra_2.jpg

[RandomGuy]

This points out something to which Bushies really blind themselves:

Bush has destroyed American credibility.

He has treated the international community with disdain and polite contempt, and unsuprisingly they have come to resent it.

On the issues of torture, WMDs, Gitmo, and others he has consistantly and almost systematically undermined US credibility on human rights and other issues.

Don't get me wrong here. Countries like Libya and China don't belong on the UN committee (sp?) on Human Rights.
BUT
Bush has given the real human rights abusers a LOT of ammunition for calling us hypocrites.

Our government has criticized them for spying on their people, holding people without trials, torturing prisoners and then Bush goes on to advocate the same things when it suits us.

[Uncle Donnie]

Just wondering where this fits into the rank ignorance...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11105378/

IAEA: Iran obtained nuclear arms documents
Memo describes how to make an atomic bomb, U.N agency says

Updated: 5:33 p.m. ET Jan. 31, 2006
VIENNA, Austria - A document obtained by Iran on the nuclear black market serves no other purpose than to make an atomic bomb, the International Atomic Energy Agency said Tuesday.

The finding was made in a report prepared for presentation to the 35-nation IAEA board when it meets, starting Thursday, on whether to refer Iran to the U.N. Security Council, which has the power to impose economic and political sanctions on Iran.

The report was made available in full to The Associated Press.

First mention of the documents was made late last year in a longer IAEA report. At that time, the agency said only that the papers showed how to cast “enriched, natural and depleted uranium metal into hemispherical forms.”

The agency refused to make a judgment on what possible uses such casts would have. But diplomats familiar with the probe into Iran’s nuclear program said then that the papers apparently were instructions on how to mold highly enriched grade uranium into the core of warheads.

In the brief report obtained Tuesday, however, the agency said bluntly that the 15-page document showing how to cast fissile uranium into metal was “related to the fabrication of nuclear weapon components.”

Asked about the finding, a senior diplomat close to the IAEA declined to elaborate but emphasized that the documents had no other use.

The report said the document was under agency seal, meaning that IAEA experts were able in theory to re-examine it, but “Iran has declined a request to provide the agency with a copy.”

Diplomats familiar with the IAEA investigation of Iran said earlier Tuesday that part of the document recently was given to the agency in an effort to deflect building international momentum to report Iran to the Security Council. But the report did not mention Tehran handing over any papers.

Iran claims it did not ask for document
The document was given to Iran by members of the nuclear black market network, the IAEA said. Iran has claimed it did not ask for the document but was given it anyway as part of other black market purchases.

The same network provided Libya with drawings of a crude nuclear bomb which that country handed over to the IAEA as part of its 2003 decision to scrap its atomic weapons program.

Separately, U.S. intelligence — revealed last year, based on information found on a laptop computer reportedly smuggled out of Iran — suggested that Tehran’s scientists were working on details of nuclear weapons, including missile trajectories and ideal altitudes for exploding warheads.

The diplomats said the United States recently declassified the information and passed it on to the IAEA, which, in turn, forwarded it to Iran and asked for an explanation. Washington’s cooperation with the agency was part of its attempt to prove that Iran was interested in making weapons, said one of the diplomats who is familiar with the IAEA investigation.

Iran to go before security council
The developments were revealed just hours after a surprising agreement by the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council to advise that Iran be hauled before the powerful body over its disputed nuclear program.

The group agreed that the IAEA “should report to the Security Council its decision on the steps required of Iran, and should also report to the Security Council all IAEA reports and resolutions as adopted relating to this issue.”

China and Russia, longtime allies and trading partners of Iran, agreed to a statement that calls on the IAEA to transfer the Iran dossier to the Security Council — the start of a protracted process that could end in sanctions for Tehran.

The IAEA’s 35-nation board meets in Vienna on Thursday. Diplomats accredited to the agency said that with opinion leaders Russia and China on board, most — maybe all — of the board nations would likely approve Security Council involvement. Past referral attempts had run into stiff opposition from some influential board members.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Nbadan]

Could these DOCUMENTS be the same DOCUMENTS the CIA handed over to Iran in an effort to trip up any Iranian nuclear bomb ambitions?


Botched CIA operations may have handed Iran vital information on how to make nuclear weapons and betrayed the identities of America's spies in the country, according to a new book on US intelligence.

The latest account of American intelligence failures includes details of how the CIA allegedly tried to slip Teheran some Russian designs for an atomic bomb, which contained hidden flaws that would have made any device inoperable.

The Iranians, however, were tipped off by the very agent sent to give them the documents.

TINY URL (http://tinyurl.com/7mk46)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This points out something to which Bushies really blind themselves:

Bush has destroyed American credibility.

So what do you have to say to try and explain away Great Britain, France, China, and Russia all recommending Iran to the UN Security Council.

Some dipshit here (Dan) swore less than two weeks ago that China and Russia would never do anything to little ol' Iran :lol

[RandomGuy]

So what do you have to say to try and explain away Great Britain, France, China, and Russia all recommending Iran to the UN Security Council.

Some dipshit here (Dan) swore less than two weeks ago that China and Russia would never do anything to little ol' Iran :lol

Having them talk to the security council is a far cry from sanctions. I will believe THAT when I see it, but will not hold my breath waiting.

[Peter]

I guess those governments didn't get Nbadan's memo.

[Nbadan]

Having them talk to the security council is a far cry from sanctions. I will believe THAT when I see it, but will not hold my breath waiting.

You got that right. These countries are trying to defuse a tense situation before it esculates out of their control, but don't look for sanctions (or in other words, any actual proof that the Iranians are producing nuclear weapons) anytime soon.

[RandomGuy]

You got that right. These countries are trying to defuse a tense situation before it esculates out of their control, but don't look for sanctions (or in other words, any actual proof that the Iranians are producing nuclear weapons) anytime soon.

(shrugs)

We are witnessing some of the real fallout from Iraq. How many nations are going to really go along with us THIS time when we say "gee look, our intelligence says that they are developing nukular weapons"

Memories of Colin Powell and that simulated vial of anthrax at the UN come to mind. (Powell was speaking on Iraqi WMDs in making the case for invading Iraq)

We have become an obnoxious "boy who cried wolf" that nobody likes. Thanks GW.

[Peter]

Why do we want to see the Iranians succeed, again?

[RandomGuy]

Why do we want to see the Iranians succeed, again?

Talk about a straw man...

I talk about lost credibility, and get a non sequitur.

[Peter]

Actually, you just talk a lot. We get that you hate the current administration. Beyond that you've offered very little.

I'm not sure what is wrong with seeing the current administration apply pressure to the Iranians. It's one of the few things I agree with the administration unequivocally on.

[RandomGuy]

Actually, you just talk a lot. We get that you hate the current administration. Beyond that you've offered very little.

I'm not sure what is wrong with seeing the current administration apply pressure to the Iranians. It's one of the few things I agree with the administration unequivocally on.

I do really dislike this administration. I am aghast at that the incompetant way it has handled just about everything. I will readily admit that.

BUT

I do agree that we need to pressure states that are genuinely trying to develop nuclear weapons.

I was merely pointing out the difficulties we will have trying to get other nations to go along with us on this one. You will admit that the way Iraq was handled and the subsequent fallout has hurt our ability to do so, yes?

[Peter]

That message is lost between all of the Bush hatin'.

[RandomGuy]

That message is lost between all of the Bush hatin'.

As is your admitting that message is right, heh.

[Peter]

Admit what? The administration appears to have secured the support for its efforts from the Security Council members.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Having them talk to the security council is a far cry from sanctions. I will believe THAT when I see it, but will not hold my breath waiting.

Dan swore it would never even make it to the SC.

As for our 'credibility' as it realates to Iran... it doesn't. The French don't want to see some Islamofascist in their neighborhood running around with nukes. Great Britain? Nada.

And you think Russia likes the idea of Tehran passing a nuke to the Chechens? Fuck no. And here's the kicker - even China is dealing with its own Muslim insurgency, you just don't hear about it on CNN every night. The last thing they want is a glowing Beijing.

In short, when push comes to shove, Iran's gonna get slapped silly.

[Nbadan]

Dan swore it would never even make it to the SC.

Correction, I said that sanctions would never make it past the Security Council, which, technically they haven't.

As for Russia, well they know that Iran doesn't have the capability to produce nuclear weapons...


Iran is not capable of building its own nuclear weapons, the former head of a nuclear power plant and current regional leader in southern Russia said Wednesday.

“In reality, the U.S. is provoking Iran, accusing it of aiming, along with the implementation of its peaceful nuclear programs, to create its own nuclear weapons,” Governor of the Saratov Region Pavel Ipatov was quoted by RIA Novosti as saying.

MOSCOW NEWS (http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/02/01/iranunable.shtml)

[RandomGuy]

Admit what? The administration appears to have secured the support for its efforts from the Security Council members.

Admit that the administration's treatment of the rest of the world hurts us diplomatically.

[RandomGuy]

Dan swore it would never even make it to the SC.

As for our 'credibility' as it realates to Iran... it doesn't. The French don't want to see some Islamofascist in their neighborhood running around with nukes. Great Britain? Nada.

And you think Russia likes the idea of Tehran passing a nuke to the Chechens? Fuck no. And here's the kicker - even China is dealing with its own Muslim insurgency, you just don't hear about it on CNN every night. The last thing they want is a glowing Beijing.

In short, when push comes to shove, Iran's gonna get slapped silly.

I doubt highly that however irresponsible the government in Tehran that they would give a nuke to islamic terrorists/freedom fighters/whatever.\

The simple fact is that IF such a thing happened and a nuke was used anywere in the world, Iran would face the US, China, and Russia united like nobody's business, and even the most wacky ayatollah knows that Iran doesn't have a snowball's chance in such a case. MAD will do that.

[Darrin]

This points out something to which Bushies really blind themselves:

Bush has destroyed American credibility.

He has treated the international community with disdain and polite contempt, and unsuprisingly they have come to resent it.

On the issues of torture, WMDs, Gitmo, and others he has consistantly and almost systematically undermined US credibility on human rights and other issues.

Don't get me wrong here. Countries like Libya and China don't belong on the UN committee (sp?) on Human Rights.
BUT
Bush has given the real human rights abusers a LOT of ammunition for calling us hypocrites.

Our government has criticized them for spying on their people, holding people without trials, torturing prisoners and then Bush goes on to advocate the same things when it suits us.

Before the 2004 Election I made a prediction. Since the international community had been so openly against the policies of this adminstration with regards to their actions after the Taliban were defeated in Afghanistan, the blame had been President Bush's alone to carry. If Bush was to be re-elected, that anti-Bush sentiment would become anti-American because the re-election by the American people would be a validation of his policies in the Middle East. Much to my dismay, I haven't been wrong.


The "evidence" that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons consists of mere assertion by members of the Bush administration and the neoconservative media. Iran says it is not pursuing nuclear weapons, and the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have found no evidence of a weapons program.

This would be much easier to dismiss if their was one WMD found in Iraq. While the Iranians intially lied about even attempting to start a nuclear weapons program, this boils down to 'Who's lied to us lately?'

[Nbadan]

Before the 2004 Election I made a prediction. Since the international community had been so openly against the policies of this adminstration with regards to their actions after the Taliban were defeated in Afghanistan, the blame had been President Bush's alone to carry. If Bush was to be re-elected, that anti-Bush sentiment would become anti-American because the re-election by the American people would be a validation of his policies in the Middle East. Much to my dismay, I haven't been wrong.

Interesting thought. I don't think it's so much Anti-Americanism per say, most people realize the generousity of the American people, but there is a strong sentiment, especially in the ME, against the 'unbridled capitalism' that comes hand in hand with American-style 'democracy'.