someone back me up

[T-Pain]

im a member of the michael vick fan forum and been posting there since nov. 2004, and yes im a vick fan. but recently i just changed my sn there from "MikeVick7" to "VinceYoung10" and my signature is "Vince Young > Mike Vick" everyone is on my ass because im comparing a college player to a pro player and that its uncomparable. ive said the ive seen VY do more shit than Mike has, both in college and in pros (as far as helping his team). can anybody help me compare this guy to mike cuz im runnin out of shit to say. ive already compared the national champions to rose bowl MVPs and shit. thanks

[hussker]

Faulty comparison until VY gets there and plays a few years...But he was a better CFB player. VY has not ben in the world of the NFL where EVERYONE is the best. I am sure there are a few speedy LBs that relish the thought he my try to run wide...

[T-Pain]

Faulty comparison until VY gets there and plays a few years...But he was a better CFB player. VY has not ben in the world of the NFL where EVERYONE is the best. I am sure there are a few speedy LBs that relish the thought he my try to run wide...

yeah ive even said that he was a better CFB player and i still get shit for it. there so biased in there, im tryin to get them to open there eyes and look. yeah, i do agree that it is a little faulty.

[Obstructed_View]

im a member of the michael vick fan forum and been posting there since nov. 2004, and yes im a vick fan. but recently i just changed my sn there from "MikeVick7" to "VinceYoung10" and my signature is "Vince Young > Mike Vick" everyone is on my ass because im comparing a college player to a pro player and that its uncomparable. ive said the ive seen VY do more shit than Mike has, both in college and in pros (as far as helping his team). can anybody help me compare this guy to mike cuz im runnin out of shit to say. ive already compared the national champions to rose bowl MVPs and shit. thanks

When they make Vince a linebacker or a fullback you can eat your words.

[hussker]

When they make Vince a linebacker or a fullback you can eat your words.

Let me see if I understand...



















WHAT???

[Obstructed_View]

LOL. Yeah, that didn't make as much sense as I'd hoped. Here's my point: He's not guaranteed to be a starting QB in the NFL. I'd avoid saying he's better until he proves he can start at Vick's position. Vince is awesome, and his performance in the Rose bowl was incredible. That said, I'm not putting him in Canton just because he had one dominant game in college.

[Mr. Peabody]

Vince is awesome, and his performance in the Rose bowl was incredible. That said, I'm not putting him in Canton just because he had one dominant game in college.

I agree that we should not ordain Vince as the next great NFL QB, but to imply that his one game was some kind of fluke is ridiculous. True, he had a dominate game on CFB's biggest stage, but that game was merely an example of what the guy did throughout his CFB career.

As far as being moved to a different position in the NFL, it doesn't seem very likely. A team drafting in the top 5 will not draft Vince that high with the idea of moving him to another position. He will get multiple shots at QB.

[j-6]

Virginia Tech without Mike Vick in '99 probably isn't even bowl eligible, let alone undefeated and in the title game against the Seminoles. I might get crucified by my Burnt Orange brethren, but Texas without VY goes like 8-4 and to whatever game is tied in to the Big 12 beneath the Cotton Bowl.

Vick was the best pure athlete I've ever seen play college football, but I think VY was a better player. Also keep in mind, Florida State in 1999 (Weinke, Janikowski, Warrick)was about three levels below USC in 05-06. VY barely pulled off the win despite all the talent that surrounded him.

[timvp]

Vick and VY aren't similar at all. Vick might be the fastest player in the NFL. VY, comparatively, is slow.

[Obstructed_View]

I agree that we should not ordain Vince as the next great NFL QB, but to imply that his one game was some kind of fluke is ridiculous. True, he had a dominate game on CFB's biggest stage, but that game was merely an example of what the guy did throughout his CFB career.

As far as being moved to a different position in the NFL, it doesn't seem very likely. A team drafting in the top 5 will not draft Vince that high with the idea of moving him to another position. He will get multiple shots at QB.
The thing is that Vince wasn't in the top pick discussion until the one dominant game I alluded to. He didn't suddenly become a different person. The game wasn't a fluke, but it's been made into way more than it was. Everybody knew he was a good player, but his body of work as a whole tells more about him than just his last game. He wasn't considered in Leinart's league before the game. What's changed?

Vick came out of college with speed to burn, size, and the best gun in the NFL. Vince has incredible size, speed and feet. He'll definitely get multiple shots at QB due to his talent and the fact that he's going to be picked so high, but he might eventually end up at a different position if he can't make the throws.

[Obstructed_View]

Vick and VY aren't similar at all. Vick might be the fastest player in the NFL. VY, comparatively, is slow.
Vick probably is the fastest player in the NFL, but 4.3-4.4 speed from a guy that's as big as Young isn't exactly slow. I understand what you are saying, but I think you might be overstating it just a bit.

[FromWayDowntown]

True, he had a dominate game on CFB's biggest stage, but that game was merely an example of what the guy did throughout his CFB career.

Peabody -- are guys who don't have dominate games in college loosers?

Couldn't resist.


As for the question at hand, I hear scouts saying that Vince is going to have a long adjustment to the NFL, largely because he's going to have to take snaps under center, make pre-snap reads, and turn his back to the defense in taking 3, 5, and 7 step drops. There is also, apparently, some major concern about his ability to hit that last step and throw accurately from one hash to the other sideline, mostly because NFL-quality corners will jump on lollipops and take them to the house. He's spent 2 years in the gun, blessed with the luxury of time to read the defenses he sees and relying on the zone read play as a means to disrupt the coverage. He's not goint to have that setup in the NFL, primarily because his team will get shellacked on a weekly basis if anyone tries to replicate it.

I wonder, too, about whether VY will be a dominant runner at the next level. He was able to run over collegiate LB's and DB's, but the DB's in the NFL are as big as college linebackers and the linebackers in the NFL run like college DB's. So, I think Vince's physical superiority will be somewhat limited by the truth of the NFL game. That may ultimately be the difference between Vince and Vick: Vick can run away from tacklers with NFL speed; Vince might not have that extra gear.

Ultimately, his success in the NFL will depend almost entirely on how well he can throw the ball. He's also going to learn very quickly that if he can't throw the ball at all, he's going to be dealing with 8 and 9 men in the box, and he's going to have to run over supreme athletes in order to run crazy like he did in college, if he relies on his legs.

[Peter]

VY has the tools to become a star in the NFL, but it's going to take a few seasons. He's not going to be as effective pulling the ball down and rushing as he was in the college game, unless he ended up behind a top 5 NFL offensive line.

[FromWayDowntown]

VY has the tools to become a star in the NFL, but it's going to take a few seasons. He's not going to be as effective pulling the ball down and rushing as he was in the college game, unless he ended up behind a top 5 NFL offensive line.

I think that even if he had a top 5 line in front of him, he's still going to have some struggles relying on the running game. It's not as if the USC defenders weren't able to get to him in that Rose Bowl game -- they just couldn't tackle him. Can you see Vince just bouncing off safeties like Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed or Roy Williams or Brian Dawkins? I can't. And that's to say nothing of the bigger and just-as-fast linebackers. He's just not going to run for 100+ yards or 5.5 yards per carry very often facing defenders of that caliber.

[Peter]

Perhaps. One thing's for certain, he's never seen defenses with the speed that he's gonna see in the NFL. I'm not going to be surprised when he ends up going to the Saints at #2. The wildcard is whether the Saints opt for the 'safer' QB prospect in Leinhart.

[FromWayDowntown]

Perhaps. One thing's for certain, he's never seen defenses with the speed that he's gonna see in the NFL. I'm not going to be surprised when he ends up going to the Saints at #2. The wildcard is whether the Saints opt for the 'safer' QB prospect in Leinhart.

I think the Titans would be exstatic if Leinart dropped to them at 3. That may say enough about the relative qualities of the two quarterbacks, given that the Titans front office has actually managed to build good football teams with fairly wise drafts, while the Saints have, well, been the Saints.

[Peter]

Well, the Titans' offensive coordinator was at USC through 2004, from what I remember, so Leinhart could be a wise selection for them. McNair has also been lobbying for the team to take his buddy VY. Looking at the Texans, they now have a head coach who knows a thing or two about building good offenses and in particular, good offensive lines. Bush seems like a natural fit for the Texans. It would be expensive for them to carry both Carr and VY. They have a workhorse RB in Davis. Bush would be a great fit as a flanker, back and return man.

Right now I'm seeing the draft as:

1 Bush
2 Young
3 Leinhart

with 2 and 3 much more likely to flip than 1 and 2.

[KewlKat00]

Well, the Titans' offensive coordinator was at USC through 2004, from what I remember, so Leinhart could be a wise selection for them.

yeah, norm chow was the usc offensive coordinator until last year. he and leinart are close. i actually think that had norm chow announced he was going to leave before leinart announced that he would have entered the draft also. but maybe not. and not that it matters anymore. i would love to see them reunited. i think it would be good for both of them.

[scott]

Kubiak being the new coach of the Toxins solidifies the fact they are either taking Bush or trading down to take Fergeson, in my mind. Aside from the fact he has publicly supported Carr before he was the Texan's coach, he is about the running game. Having 2 stud RBs is his wet dream, so Davis + Bush wouldn't be a crowded backfield in his mind. However, he has 1 stud in Davis and a youngster with potential in Morency, so maybe he'll opt to build that line. In my view, that would be the wise move given that they could probably add a 2nd and 3rd rounder if they swapped with the Jets.

As for Young... dude hasn't demonstrated the ability to throw a 15 yard out, and that is the benchmark for a NFL QB. His arm reminds me a Quincy Carter's... and obviously that isn't a good thing. CBs will have a field day with his lobs. Just remember, even Jason White was a dominating QB on the collegiate level. Maybe Vince has some more arm strength that he hasn't had to use because softer throws is all he needed in the college game...

I think Vince is making a respectable and wise choice to only throw at the combine (respectable that he is doing anything at all at the combine - most top 10 picks don't bother to attend). He wasn't the #2 or #3 pick before the Rose Bowl because of concerns about his arm and passing game in general, and despite a dominant Rose Bowl he didn't do much to address those concerns. He made the same throws we've always seen him make... relatively easy ones. So either he was underrated before the Rose Bowl, or he is overrated now (as far as draft boards are concerned).

I still think he'll be a WR/TE by year 3.

[cecil collins]

Vick and VY aren't similar at all. Vick might be the fastest player in the NFL. VY, comparatively, is slow.
Vick is fast, but he'd get smoked by at least a dozen players in the NFL.


Virginia Tech without Mike Vick in '99 probably isn't even bowl eligible, let alone undefeated and in the title game against the Seminoles. I might get crucified by my Burnt Orange brethren, but Texas without VY goes like 8-4 and to whatever game is tied in to the Big 12 beneath the Cotton Bowl.

Vick was the best pure athlete I've ever seen play college football, but I think VY was a better player. Also keep in mind, Florida State in 1999 (Weinke, Janikowski, Warrick)was about three levels below USC in 05-06. VY barely pulled off the win despite all the talent that surrounded him.
I see your point, but Tech had some good players and definitely would have won at least 7 games. He did singlehandedly take on a superior team. Without Vick that game would have been a slaughter.

[Obstructed_View]

Vick is fast, but he'd get smoked by at least a dozen players in the NFL.

Ya think? Not intended as a challenge, but name a few for me. Ron Mexico ran a mid 4.2 in the 40. IMO nobody is smoking him. Laveranues Coles was reported to have run a 4.19 in college, but he was being chased by the police at the time.

Darrell Green could beat them both backpedalling and not spill his Big Red. I had a friend that played against him in college, and said it was ridiculous how much faster he was than everyone else.


Without Vick that game would have been a slaughter.
Without Peter Warrick, Vick might have won the game.

[scott]

Randall Williams supposedly ran a 4.04... I don't buy it for a second... but he did score a 39 yard TD in only 3 seconds when the Eagles tried to on-side kick against the Cowboys in Parcell's first year as coach...

There are probably a few guys who can hang with Vick in a race, but the point is that Vick is near the top. I seriously doubt he can run a 4.25 these days though.

[T-Pain]

awesome points guys, all of you, thanks