why is michigan such a shithole?

[mikejones99]

do the people there not even care? is it the auto industries fault? at least they got the Pistons :hat

[Nbadan]

Michigan is a highly unionized state. When U.S. automakers like GM and Ford lose money they close plants, American plants. Foreign automakers aren't gonna put a new plant in Flint, where they have to deal with the UAW and other unions. Not when you can build them in cities like San Antonio - one of the least unionized cities in the U.S..

[AFE7FATMAN]

AND THE ANSWER IS:







Michigan is a blue state

[jochhejaam]

do the people there not even care? is it the auto industries fault? at least they got the Pistons :hat
Every State has positives and negatives and if you'd take the time to educate yourself on the State I'm sure you'd come up with an opinion that would render an "it's not" to your question.

Because it's a blue state? ....<sigh>

[Crookshanks]

Hey, I grew up in Michigan (actually, in Flint, the birthplace of General Motors) and it's not all bad! But I have to say that the UAW has done a huge part in killing the jobs in the area. Flint is becoming a run-down town and it's very sad.

But there are other areas that aren't so bad - and the great lakes are awesome. The white sand on the shores of Lake Michigan is so fine it looks like sugar. It is truly beautiful.

[Yonivore]

UNIONS & LIBERALISM -- Not necessarily in that order.

[Darrin]

do the people there not even care? is it the auto industries fault? at least they got the Pistons :hat

Have you ever been to Michigan?
Have you heard of the phrase "contempt prior to investigation?"

[desflood]

Detroit is a shithole. But that's a pretty small part of the state. Do you think the whole thing is like that one crappy place?

[JoeChalupa]

Hey, I grew up in Michigan (actually, in Flint, the birthplace of General Motors) and it's not all bad! But I have to say that the UAW has done a huge part in killing the jobs in the area. Flint is becoming a run-down town and it's very sad.

But there are other areas that aren't so bad - and the great lakes are awesome. The white sand on the shores of Lake Michigan is so fine it looks like sugar. It is truly beautiful.

I grew up in Union country myself in Defiance, Ohio home of GM's Powertrain plant. Been up to Michigan many times but I find is that people up in the Midwest are much more loyal to American automobiles than I say almost anywhere else in the country.
Down here in Texas the loss of auto industry jobs doesn't bother people because they are not as impacted as those up North.
You'll see many more Foreign cars in parking lots around here.
At least that is what I perceive.

There was time in Defiance when all you had to do was graduate from Defiance High School....home of the Battling Bulldogs!...then step into the easy life of a job at GM making good money with great benefits.

Those days are gone although some of my friends were lucky enough to get in. I on the other hand took my liberal ass into the Marine Corps because I love this great Country despite what some of my fellow red state conservative republicans may think.

I thank God that my father was able to get a job at GM and make a comfortable living with a 6th grade education and get out of the migrant worker status.

Foreign automakers have simply out thought the US auto industry. While US automakers are exporting jobs, foreign automakers are creating jobs.

[Darrin]

Detroit is a shithole. But that's a pretty small part of the state. Do you think the whole thing is like that one crappy place?

Even Detroit's not a shithole; it's a beautiful, historic, and unique city. In the last ten to fifteen years the city has been improved under the leadership of Mayors Dennis Archer and Kwame Kilpatrick. I've been to Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Frankfort, Louisville - there's not a city that has the combination of history, size, frankness, and heart. It's an amazing place to live. We love our food, our cars, and our lives.

Stand in the main dining room of COBO HALL and look out across and icy Detroit River. Go to a bar in the old River Place district and hear about the history of the building you're in. Go to the River Place's crown jewel of restaurants - the Rattlesnake Club. Take in a Van Gogh or Bruegel in a trip to the Detroit Institute of Art and while you're there take in a classic cinema experience at the Detroit Film Theatre in their 1200 seat ampitheatre built in 1927 by renouned architect Paul Philippe Cret. Take in a Tigers Game at Comerica Park or a Red Wings game at Joe Louis Arena. Visit Hart Plaza just outside the Renissance Center. Fox Theatre, Detroit Opera House, the Fisher Building. See that statue that you may not recognize without an oversized Pistons or Red Wings jersey - the Spirit of Detroit.

Then come back here, tell how much fun you didn't have and that it's a shithole.

[Peter]

Sooner or later I am going to get around to making it up to the Upper Peninsula. I'm not sure that a state with forests and plenty of lakeshore can be all that bad.

[mikejones99]

The whole state is worse than most people can imagine. :depressed

[samikeyp]

My wife loves it so much she wants to move there. When some of the Pistons fans dissed SA, we were all over them. We should extend them the same courtesy.

[Guru of Nothing]

I grew up in Union country myself in Defiance, Ohio home of GM's Powertrain plant.

The most extreme Redneck I ever met was from Defiance, Ohio.

He would run his mile and a half semi-annual Navy fitness test barefoot(on pavement); and he liked to pour beer over his Fruity Pebbles for breakfast.

Oddly, he was pretty bright.

[JoeChalupa]

I loved growing up in Ohio and around Michigan, Indiana.
Small town USA was where I grew up and I loved it.

[Darrin]

The whole state is worse than most people can imagine. :depressed

Traverse City, Macinac Island, the Dunes, the Great Lakes, the Canals, fishing, the flowing grasslands of Grand Rapids, the fall colors in the UP, the majesty of Lansing - I'm not trying to sound like a tour guide or a brochure salesman, but there's a lot here. History, natural wonders, great sports teams, unique art, music, and threatre. What speicifcally is so bad?

[JoeChalupa]

The Great Lakes are the bomb.

[boutons_]

Sunday Brings More Than a Game

By Michael Wilbon
Friday, February 3, 2006; E01

DETROIT There are more cranes and construction crews in Detroit these days than usual, probably more than at any time in the past 40 years.

Loft apartments in restored buildings off Woodward Avenue downtown reportedly are priced in the $300,000 range, which was unthinkable five years ago. Several burned-out buildings that were visible along Interstates 94 and 75 as recently as June during the NBA Finals have been torn down.

( cleaning up for the NBA Finals doesn't rank with cleaning up for the SB )

The streets leading into and out of the Super Bowl-related venues are cleaner than they've been in decades. New restaurants like Lola's in Harmony Park, a short walk from Detroit's two new downtown stadiums, were open and serving after 10 p.m. on Wednesday night.

It seems nobody has ever tried harder than Detroit to put on a good Super Bowl this week. But there's so much more at stake than that game or even the weeklong extravaganza. One of America's most important cities is auditioning for acceptance -- nationally and beyond. Known as much for the local murder rate as for being America's automotive and music capital, Detroit is hoping to say to the world, through the Super Bowl, "We've changed." All that's hanging in the balance is a city's worldwide reputation.

Rhonda Walker, the morning news anchor of Detroit's NBC affiliate, was born here, grew up in Lansing and graduated from Michigan State. Professionally, she wakes up every day this week to report on the city in which she lives and works. Emotionally, she walks a tightrope, which is why she said about Detroit being host of the Super Bowl, "We're experiencing a nervous excitement. We want people to see that we're an emerging and evolving city. People have known Detroit as a city without much of a downtown, as a city that took decades to recover from the riots of the late 1960s. But there's a transformation here. We're thinking, 'Please let people see us for who we are now.' "

Even so, some news isn't good. Only two weeks ago, Ford Motor Co. announced a plan to lay off 30,000 employees. And while most do not work in Detroit, a jolt to the auto industry is a jolt to Detroit. Overall, Detroit is rated one of the nation's poorest big cities. The population has fallen more than 50 percent since the 1950s when more than two million people lived here.

The most optimistic folks, including Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, see the Super Bowl as the cornerstone to a dramatic renaissance. "This game," the mayor said, "has served as the catalyst to move Detroit in economic development in a way we haven't moved in 50 years."

Since the 1980s, visiting Detroit really meant visiting Southfield, Dearborn, Troy, Pontiac (where the Lions played for years), or perhaps Auburn Hills, where the three-time NBA champion Pistons play.

My friend Rob Parker, who grew up in Jamaica, N.Y., and wrote a column for Newsday in the 1990s, said during a trip from the airport to the arena to cover a Knicks-Pistons game, "I would never want to live or work here."

Parker laughs now because he has lived here for 10 of the last 14 years, writing for the Detroit News, the Detroit Free Press, and now hosting a radio show. He has been pleasantly surprised all week by the lack of Detroit-bashing by the national media and visitors. "I think deep down," Parker said, "people want to be able to come to Detroit and enjoy a trip. It's an important city to America. Look, if you drive into certain places of Detroit, they'll look like the worst places you've ever seen in your life. So let's not act as if the streets are going to be paved with gold because the Super Bowl is here. It's unrealistic to think that everything is going to change in an instant. But you can find places that look like that in New York and Chicago and Philly, or for that matter most urban places in America."

I read Parker a quote from a story this week in which a 59-year-old man named Arthur Lauderdale, who lives on the East Side, said essentially that the money changing hands downtown at Super Bowl parties this week isn't doing a thing for his neighborhood, which is about four miles from Ford Field. But the conversation at Lola's, with people originally from Detroit or transplanted here, revealed an increasingly popular sentiment that the jump-start has to begin downtown and work its way east and west. "It has to work its way out from downtown," Parker said of the new businesses springing up around Comerica Park, where the Tigers play, and Ford Field. "The Super Bowl is a symbolic and geographic starting point. And people are excited. They're good people, the nicest people in the world here. It's hard being the butt of jokes for years and years. I think the attitude is, 'Let's hold our breath and hope we don't get ripped to shreds.' "

I know exactly what Parker's talking about because I've taken verbal and written shots at Detroit over the years. I once said it looked like Beirut. Since Cleveland's revitalization in the mid-1990s, Detroit has become the easiest target among big American cities.

But Detroit has the beginnings of a riverfront (on the Detroit River that separates the city from Canada) that ought to make the District of Columbia jealous. General Motors has invested tons of money in a project Kilpatrick calls "a $2 billion waterfront development."

In some ways, the Steelers' Jerome Bettis is the face of Detroit's renaissance, at least for this week, and not just because he's a native playing in the big game. Bettis is purchasing land and interests at the Uniroyal plant that is so visible and reflects how big the auto industry is here. The mayor said of Bettis, "He's not just coming home to play a game; he's coming home to get his hands dirty."

The game is still more than two days away and there are things beyond Detroit's control that could flare up, like the traffic mess that will ensue because of federal security concerns that have led to street closings. Maybe things seem great because so many expected the worst. Either way, R&B fans are excited about concerts featuring Smokey Robinson, Chaka Khan and the Ohio Players. The league and the players' union have initiatives, economic and educational, all over town.

Nobody seems to remember Detroit percolating like this. "We want to redeem ourselves," Kilpatrick said, "and re-introduce ourselves to the world as the new Detroit."

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The whole state is worse than most people can imagine. :depressed


This just verifies that you've never been anywhere near Michigan...

[Yonivore]

This just verifies that you've never been anywhere near Michigan...
I flew into Detroit for a meeting in Ann Arbor a couple of years ago. All I can say is -- for being the "Motor City," they've got some really, really, crappy streets. Hell, the rental I drove had no suspension left. I wondered about that and soon realized why they don't bother to fix it...the roads would just break it in about 30 minutes.

[Crookshanks]

There is so much to see in Michigan and many beautiful places. Have any of you seen the movie "Somewhere in Time" with Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour? That film was shot on Mackinaw Island - a very beautiful place that doesn't allow any cars, except for the fire truck! You can rent bikes and ride around the whole island in a couple of hours.

And Battle Creek is where much of our cereal is made. Grand Rapids has the annual tulip festival and Traverse City has the cherry festival (it also has some of the highest priced real estate in the country!) Even Flint (where I grew up) has some very interesting areas relating to the birthplace of the auto industry. I believe you can still go to the Dort Carriage Factory - which is where the auto industry was started - and see many items relating to the automobile.

Up north, you can see miles and miles of beautiful white birch trees and magnificent evergreens. And the fall colors in the upper penisula are absolutely breathtaking! Go all the way up in the upper penisula and you can see the Soo Locks at Sault Sainte Marie.

The Soo Locks have been referred to as one of the great wonders of the world and are still the largest (& one of the busiest) waterway traffic systems on earth! Watching huge vessels pass through the Locks is a unique experience that cannot be seen anywhere else in the United States! The Locks consist of two canals and four locks that allow vessels of many types/sizes to safely traverse the 21-foot drop in elevation of the St. Mary’s River between Lake Superior and Lakes Michigan and Huron. From viewing decks, you can watch Lakers and Salties (ocean-going vessels) as they travel the seaway between ports and navigate the rise/drop of the water levels.

Anyway, Michigan is a beautiful state and should not be judged soley by what Detroit looks like!

[SpursWoman]

I think Mr. Jones just means that Michigan is a shithole because there's lots of women of child-bearing age that live there. Mr. Jones doesn't like women. :lol

[AlamoSpursFan]

I used to deliver to Chicago, and then drive over to Coldwater, Michigan, to pick up a load coming back to SA. I thought it was very pretty country and the people I encountered were quite nice.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I flew into Detroit for a meeting in Ann Arbor a couple of years ago. All I can say is -- for being the "Motor City," they've got some really, really, crappy streets. Hell, the rental I drove had no suspension left. I wondered about that and soon realized why they don't bother to fix it...the roads would just break it in about 30 minutes.

Can't argue with that. The roads around here are the absolutely worst...

[Crookshanks]

Well, I haven't lived in Michigan since 1992, but I went up for a visit in August. My sister picked us up at the Detroit airport and we drove down to Flint. The roads were pretty bad and there was a lot of construction. My husband commented on the horrible roads.

[AlamoSpursFan]

I can't imagine any place having worse roads than the ENTIRE state of freaking Arkansas.

[JoeChalupa]

I've driven over rough roads in every State I've travelled on.

[Darrin]

I flew into Detroit for a meeting in Ann Arbor a couple of years ago. All I can say is -- for being the "Motor City," they've got some really, really, crappy streets. Hell, the rental I drove had no suspension left. I wondered about that and soon realized why they don't bother to fix it...the roads would just break it in about 30 minutes.

Yeah, it's joked around here that there are two seasons: Winter and Orange Barrell. But this is a problem for all cities that have to deal with snow, and made worse in areas of low income because it means there's less of the taxpayers' income to go around. Detroit is also uniquely positioned as the Motor City. Before Urban Sprawl became an issue, Detroit passed up several opportunities for mass transit and guess why? We're called the Motor City! What kind of city that was built on cars takes the subway? It's stupid, I know. But at the time, there were 2 million people here and the city was the lifeblood of Motown Records and the NFL Champion Lions (3 titles in the fifties).

Mike Rosenberg has a great article in the Free Press I'd like to post here:


Detroit doesn't deserve its reputation

The Super Bowl is coming to Detroit.

I doubt that any other city would welcome the country's largest sporting event with the same combination of excitement and fear: Excitement because Detroiters love their sports, and they especially love their big sports events; and fear, because we're about to get shredded by the rest of the country.

The national image of Detroit is that of a "hellhole" where people mug old ladies, sleep in cardboard boxes and keep themselves warm by setting police cars on fire. It's grossly unfair. I personally haven't set a police car on fire in years, and even then it was a misunderstanding between me and the old lady I'd just mugged.

I like to think I can make those jokes because I live in Detroit, but the truth is, I don't actually live in Detroit — I live in the general metropolitan area, which as true Detroiters will tell you, is not remotely the same thing. That's Detroit. As somebody once told me, this is the only region in America where where you live is a political statement.

This is one reason I find Detroit so fascinating. You can trace much of the history of the 20th century in Detroit, from Henry Ford's assembly lines through to the proliferation of the automobile, the subsequent sprouting of suburbia-mania, into the 1967 Detroit riots, followed by white flight, urban decay and the drug-and-gun culture, and finally to attempts at urban renewal, through projects like taxpayer-supported sports stadiums like Ford Field, which will host the showdown between the Steelers and Seahawks on Feb. 5.

This is all small consolation to visitors who can't find a taxi. They see the cold, gray winters and abandoned downtown buildings and think they have stepped on the set of a post-apocalyptic movie. And then they leave. And that is one of the great tricks of Detroit: It is not cool to live here, and so anybody who is preoccupied with being cool stays the hell away, leaving a vibrant, exciting part of the country for the rest of us.

The thing about Detroit is that you can't just show up downtown expecting a party. You have to know where to go. The city's gems are hidden. Oh, you'll probably find Greektown on your own, and maybe you'll find the Detroit Opera House or Fox Theatre, but a lot of the great bars, restaurants, clubs, music venues and shops are nowhere you might expect. And the locals probably won't tell you, since they have long since given up on selling their city to cynical visitors.

All this abuse is one reason why, as an American sports town, Detroit is unsurpassed, perhaps even unrivaled. People can rip Detroit all day and night, but when the Pistons win a championship, nobody can argue.

I've lived in New York, Philadelphia and Chicago, and love them all, but what separates Detroit is its passion for just about everything. New York has no college football team, or at least, none that stirs the city's blood. Chicago has a limited appetite for hockey, and love for college sports comes and goes. But as a sports town, Detroit has no holes in its game.

The Red Wings are so huge, they call Detroit "Hockeytown" and nobody outside of Canada blinks. The Pistons have more than 100 consecutive sellouts in the NBA's largest building. The Tigers owned Detroit in the 1980s, and they still drew 2 million fans in 2005 despite a 12th consecutive losing season. Michigan football draws more fans than any program in America; admittedly, that's largely a function of stadium size, but Michigan State sells out all its games, too. Michigan State basketball is a phenomenon, and before that, Michigan hoops had the most popular team in the country (and the best funded).

And yet the most popular team in Detroit, by a show of hands, is the Lions. Yes, the Lions. They have the worst record in the NFL over the last five years, but interest has not dropped one percent. Detroiters hate the owner (William Clay Ford, who has picked up one playoff win since the end of the Eisenhower administration) and the team president (Matt Millen) and they swear they will stop watching, but they never do. If the Lions ever get good — we're talking serious, 14-2 good — they will generate enough heat to melt all the snow, and then we won't need to set police cars on fire at all.

Then there is golf (the state of Michigan has more golf courses than any state besides Florida and California); the hunting and fishing (pretty much everybody knows somebody with a place Up North); boxing (Joe Louis and Tommy Hearns are from here); high school sports (which are huge); and motor sports (this is the Motor City, after all).

And one other thing: Detroit is pretty much the bowling capital of the world.

Like I said: No holes in our game.

I'll admit Detroit is not for everybody. If you live for palm trees or bright lights, and are appalled by the occasional broken window, then don't move here.

And I'll admit that there are times I park in an uneven, gravel parking lot, look at a big empty building and shake my head. But mostly, I have fallen in love with the people, places and heartbeat of the Detroit area; it feels real to me, with history you can almost touch and people who understand who and where they are.

This is why I much prefer Detroit to, say, Florida. I find much of Florida to be depressing and miserable, a situation I address by not living there. But I would never claim to be right; some folks think Orlando is heaven, and more power to them.

I'll stick with a city that is north of Canada, short on glitz and overflowing with soul.

[AFE7FATMAN]

Every State has positives and negatives and if you'd take the time to educate yourself on the State I'm sure you'd come up with an opinion that would render an "it's not" to your question.

Because it's a blue state? ....<sigh>
It was a JOKE

I have 2 Uncles and a Aunt, living in Pontiac and Madison Heights

IMO Chances of finding a anti-union person in Michigan would be just a little better than finding a outspoken conservative at Berkley. :lol

[boutons_]

If you think Detroit sucks, there's always nearby Windsor and Canada where the laws treat people as responsible adults and don't try legislate morality. :lol

Canada makes SA's campaign to hamper or shutdown the sex clubs in NE San Antonio look childish and prudish.

Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson will punish Canada. :)

===========================


Detroit's Big Party Next Door

In Windsor, Temptation Waits for Players, Fans

By Jason La Canfora
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 4, 2006; E01

WINDSOR, Ontario, Feb. 3 -- Five minutes from downtown Detroit, the countdown to Super Bowl debauchery has begun. Soon, fans will be carousing with escorts and nude dancers while smoking Cuban cigars and stuffing thousands of dollars worth of gambling tickets in their pockets. That mix could result in jail time in Detroit, where Super Bowl XL will be held Sunday. But just across the Detroit River, it won't draw a second look.

The people of this city are bracing for an onslaught of Super Bowl tourists, with the proximity to Detroit and Canada's more liberal entertainment laws providing an enticing combination. In Windsor, fans can find government-licensed prostitutes, all-nude strip clubs open almost around the clock and serving alcohol until 2 a.m., legalized Super Bowl gambling through the provincial lottery, a legal drinking age of 19 and no trade embargos on Cuban goods.

In a security briefing Monday, NFL representatives advised players for the Pittsburgh Steelers and Seattle Seahawks to stay out of Windsor, a warning that may have served to pique their curiosity.

"They said it's a lot more liberal over there with the laws and everything, and we should stay away," Steelers defensive tackle Chris Hoke said. "But some of the guys who are in their twenties, they're going to do whatever they want, whether you tell them to or not. I'm the type of guy to have a nice dinner and get back to the room so I'm not into all of that, but I'm sure there's some guys who are, and they'll be over there."

The town has a waterfront casino, abundant restaurants, a favorable exchange rate, an international border that is easily manageable and an attitude that "what happens in Windsor stays in Windsor." As Windsorites are quick to point out, laws are the same as in other Canadian cities, and were in place well before the Super Bowl was awarded to Detroit.

"I'm angry that they call us Sin City, because I'm envious of our position," said Mark Boscariol, who owns five bars and restaurants in Windsor. "Because if you want to tempt your gluttony, you can do it at our restaurants. If you want to tempt your lust, you can do it at our nightclubs and strip joints. If you want to tempt your greed, you can try your luck at the casino. If you're feeling a little bit of sloth, you can hang out in one of our lounges. Our entertainment industry is something we have as a natural resource, and it's a fit, and we're hoping to promote it."

Boscariol, who is the chair of Windsor's Business Improvement Association, said seven previously vacant downtown properties were redeveloped at least in part because of the Super Bowl. "It can't just be a coincidence," said Boscariol, a lifelong Windsorite. "I've never seen seven businesses open in a month in our downtown."

That is precisely the fiscal boost Mayor Eddie Francis was hoping for when Windsor paid $250,000 to take a bigger role as an official co-host of the Super Bowl.

Originally, Windsor's involvement in the game was to be limited to hotel rooms to enable Detroit to meet the NFL's requirement. But Francis worked with Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick on the planning committee, NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue approved Windsor's pitch to host several league-sanctioned galas and fan festivals and the league has been touting Canada's connection with the Super Bowl all week.

"We're no different than any other Canadian city," said Francis, whose city placed ads in newspapers in Pittsburgh and Seattle this week. "You can find Cuban cigars and drink in Ontario under the age of 19 and certainly you can go to strip clubs, and every city has strip clubs. What we know is that when people get over here they'll discover there's more to Windsor, and certainly with all the NFL events taking place on the waterfront they'll discover there's a great city here with enough options for all types of entertainment."

With so much of their livelihood depending on tourists, Windsor residents usually welcome foreigners. But they are not naive about what drives many of them to come here -- the ability to do things freely that are illegal in the States. Kilpatrick acknowledges this, too, although he is not worried about losing revenue to Windsor.

"I guess a bad answer would be, 'We'll let you get away with more stuff here,' " Kilpatrick said while laughing. "But, no, we're not worried about that. We believe there's enough for everybody, and we believe the partnership will be good."

It is illegal to solicit for prostitution in Windsor, but the city has 14 licensed escort agencies. There is no nude dancing in Michigan, but all-nude is the norm in Canada with most clubs offering private dances for $10-$20. The lower drinking age has lured Michigan's college students to Windsor for years, and while Detroit has added casinos to compete with long-standing Casino Windsor, there are no tax implications on winnings in Canada.

Ontario's Pro Line gambling lottery is available in virtually every convenience store, offering selections on all pro sporting events, including Sunday's game. Bets cannot be placed exclusively on one game; there are a minimum of three and maximum of six bets on any ticket. So one ticket could include Sunday's point spread and over/under, but would require a third bet on another sporting event as well. The maximum bet per ticket is $200 Canadian, about $175, but there is no limit to how many times one can return to a store or stores to place bets.

The NFL has never had a Super Bowl this close to a legalized gambling site before, but Francis said the issue never came up in negotiations with league officials.

"Our position on gambling does not change with proximity to Windsor," said Milt Ahlerich, the NFL's vice president of security. "It is absolutely at a great arm's length from the National Football League. We don't recognize sports betting on our event as having any role whatsoever on the conduct of this game.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

We basically learned the integrity of our game is as clean as possible -- it is clean -- and the proximity here doesn't impact that at all."

Holly Ward, the director of communications for Casino Windsor, said all 389 rooms were booked for this weekend eight months ago, and the casino anticipates upwards of 20,000 visitors a day and a three-hour wait in its poker rooms.

Thursday night was actually quite tame around Windsor, though, with just one car crossing the border at the tunnel around 7:30 p.m. -- the customs agent in Canada nonchalantly waved both passengers through, never checking passports and barely lifting her eyes from the book she was reading -- and around 2 a.m. there were only three cars passing back into Detroit.

With Pittsburgh less than five hours away by car, Francis said he was told to expect thousands of fans in RVs, and Windsorites definitely had a rooting interest in the AFC championship game between Pittsburgh and Denver two weeks ago.

"I'm a CFL fan -- Argos [Toronto Argonauts] all the way -- but we were really pulling for the Steelers," said Renaldo Agostino, the marketing director for a company that owns four strip clubs. "We know they'll really bring the people in."

The intersection of Chatham Street and Ouellette Avenue might be the epicenter of the randy nightlife. Jason's, one nude club, is directly across the street from the Million Dollar Saloon, another nude bar, on the tiny block, which also includes several stores selling Cuban cigars and a small, below-street-level storefront offering "Exotic Massages." Large posters offering football pool betting are displayed prominently behind the bar in many of the strip clubs -- another no-no in the States -- but at least one club is not staying open later than usual, football madness or not.

"Personally, I feel 2 a.m. is late enough," said Brad McLellan, general manager at Jason's. "There's got to be a limit somewhere. It's not like this is Vegas."

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[mikejones99]

All the evidence you need is to drive from Michigan to Canada and back and you should notice a significant difference.

[Nbadan]

Eh, Texas wasn't so hot when they were capping all those local wells and bankrupting wildcaters back in the 70's, but now that Oil is big again, well, all of the sudden Texas is booming economically speaking. Texas has also benefited from being generally anti-union and also from NAFTA, unlike union states like Michigan. Every state goes through economic cycles, and Michigan's strength used to be associated with American car makers, which are clearly in decline. Associating the whole state of Michigan with just the plight areas of Flint and Detroit is unfair to the other 75% of the state.

http://www.greenroofs.org/img/grhc2004_ford2_medium.jpg

[imaBULLSfan]

I grew up in Union country myself in Defiance, Ohio home of GM's Powertrain plant. Been up to Michigan many times but I find is that people up in the Midwest are much more loyal to American automobiles than I say almost anywhere else in the country.
Down here in Texas the loss of auto industry jobs doesn't bother people because they are not as impacted as those up North.
You'll see many more Foreign cars in parking lots around here.
At least that is what I perceive.

There was time in Defiance when all you had to do was graduate from Defiance High School....home of the Battling Bulldogs!...then step into the easy life of a job at GM making good money with great benefits.

Those days are gone although some of my friends were lucky enough to get in. I on the other hand took my liberal ass into the Marine Corps because I love this great Country despite what some of my fellow red state conservative republicans may think.

I thank God that my father was able to get a job at GM and make a comfortable living with a 6th grade education and get out of the migrant worker status.

Foreign automakers have simply out thought the US auto industry. While US automakers are exporting jobs, foreign automakers are creating jobs.

[Bob Lanier]

Why is mikejones99 such a one-note troll?

[imaBULLSfan]

Say chapupa I'm from Defiance and I to joined the marine corps to, my father also got hired into GM a long time ago, but I guess I was one of the lucky ones who got hired in.

When I was stationed down in dallas that is exactally what I saw as well, but let me tell you, its not the union.

We will do what we need to do to get the part out, there seems to be a certain genre of people who were being left out in the early nineties, such as the younger generation who didn't really have the money to pay for these SUV'S so they bought cheap foreign vehicles, with really cool designs I might add, and were extremely good on gas, well guess what, these young kids are finally finding themeselves and can afford newer cars and just like union workers will stay loyal to the car that got them there. Its an uphill battle but its one that must be fought. we must find a way to reach out to these people and bring them back to the US market, and that has to be done by thinking fuel effiecency, and we do lead all automakers in that catergory, now we have to think about design, alot of people like midsized vehicles, I don't have a clue who is in the design department but that is one place I might start.

People get excited about change and I think it is time for a change. Its time for the the BULLS to whip up on some ass.

peace out,
from DEFIANCE

[Ocotillo]

I've driven over rough roads in every State I've travelled on.

Ever the diplomat eh, Joe? :lol

[imaBULLSfan]

I grew up in Union country myself in Defiance, Ohio home of GM's Powertrain plant. Been up to Michigan many times but I find is that people up in the Midwest are much more loyal to American automobiles than I say almost anywhere else in the country.
Down here in Texas the loss of auto industry jobs doesn't bother people because they are not as impacted as those up North.
You'll see many more Foreign cars in parking lots around here.
At least that is what I perceive.

There was time in Defiance when all you had to do was graduate from Defiance High School....home of the Battling Bulldogs!...then step into the easy life of a job at GM making good money with great benefits.

Those days are gone although some of my friends were lucky enough to get in. I on the other hand took my liberal ass into the Marine Corps because I love this great Country despite what some of my fellow red state conservative republicans may think.

I thank God that my father was able to get a job at GM and make a comfortable living with a 6th grade education and get out of the migrant worker status.

Foreign automakers have simply out thought the US auto industry. While US automakers are exporting jobs, foreign automakers are creating jobs.