Nazr is ready to start and Marks as backup

[TDMGTP]

nazr has been solid since that denver game and with limited minutes. i havent really watched the game so im just going by stats and mostly his rebounding contribution.
marks has also played well so good for us now we can get rid of rasho because marks can shoot better than rasho from the perimeter.
RASHO- dude is getting out rebounded by everyone on the team, damn marks is rebounding better and he hasnt been playing. NO MORE EXCUSES NO MORE HE PLAYS BETTER DEFENSE FUCK THAT HE SUCKS!
NAZR, MARKS, OBERTO >>>>>>>RASHO

lets be real. truth hurts angelluv but dont worry just smile queen.

peace

[Peter]

Praise Mohammed.

[ChumpDumper]

i havent really watched the gameWell let me tell you then. Sometimes Nazr's good, sometimes he really sucks.

Where was this thread during the Miami game?

Let's be real. Play whoever's doing the best during the course of a game. Nazr is doing well tonight.

[TDMGTP]

true Chump,

rasho just sucks dude, 1 game okay wohoo rasho PRAISE rasho for his one great game. to be honest rasho has done NOTHING since he has been a spur, he had no part in last yrs championship run...he is a waste, he is a good guy and i really hope he performes well but its all up to him...nazr is trying to make the best out of it he might be dumb sometimes but his heart is enough to give him a decent performance.

[ChumpDumper]

I disagree. If Nazr came anywhere close to defending the way Pop wants him to, there would be no question about who should start.

It's all on him.

[TDMGTP]

he must be doing better cuz he is finishing vs portland and YEA i know horry is out but rasho is not. 7pts 15rebs in 25mins damn nazr!!!

[ChumpDumper]

It's all about matchups. Pity big men are overpaid by default. Both Nazr and Rasho are worth less than the average NBA player, but they're tall. Rasho has the additional strike against him of having the rules and lineups in a diluted NBA making a guy like him less relevant.

Such is life.

[Kori Ellis]

Great game by Nazr tonight. He's improving over the last few weeks.

[yeahone]

Nazr Nazr

[Tek_XX]

Yea i totally think Pop is convinced, be prepared to see Nazr start tommorow.

[Slo spurs fan]

Portland! Nuff said.

[TDMGTP]

slo spurs fan,

you are right its only portland and your master rasho still sucks ass, 2pts 1REB LMAO...laughing in sadness

[TDMVPDPOY]

its portland for christ sake............pryzabilla i want him on this team

[gameFACE]

Kneel before NAZ!

(if he keeps it up)

[timvp]

Nazr played his best game of the season tonight. He was actually in the right place defensively about 50% of the time. :wow

Rasho hasn't shown much of anything lately. He starts each half and barely plays after that. He doesn't fight hard enough for rebounds, while Nazr has been a glass eating monster lately.

[Dre_7]

Portland! Nuff said.

Then what does that say about Rasho?? :lol

[Slo spurs fan]

Where were you when Rasho owned Shaq?

Edit: And Nazr had 5 fouls in 6 min.?

[Dre_7]

What have I been saying? When Nazr gets minutes, real minutes, not scrub garbage time, he will play well. Does anyone have his stats in games when he plays meaningful minutes?

[Slo spurs fan]

What have I been saying? When Nazr gets minutes, real minutes, not scrub garbage time, he will play well. Does anyone have his stats in games when he plays meaningful minutes?
How he could play more if he gets 5 fouls in 6 mins? Does he have 60 fouls to give?

[Dre_7]

Where were you when Rasho owned Shaq?

Edit: And Nazr had 5 fouls in 6 min.?

Nazr cant gaurd Shaq. I know that. SA only plays MIA twice in the year. So oh well. If SA plays MIA in the Finals, then I will want Rasho to start.

[Slo spurs fan]

But I must admit, Nazr was great today (at least stat-wise).

[ChumpDumper]

Stunningly predictable. Crickets when he sucks and "told ya so"s when he actually plays well.

If he keeps improving his defensive rotations, he'll play more. This is and has always been.

[Dre_7]

How he could play more if he gets 5 fouls in 6 mins? Does he have 60 fouls to give?

Again, SA only played Shaq once this year. Look at what Nazr has done in meaningful minutes when not playing Shaq.

[TDMGTP]

yes 1 game this season rasho showed up to play...cool good for his confidence.

lets just enjoy it, he is on our team DONT BE A HATER. marks is playing better than rasho please, this is stupid.

[Slo spurs fan]

Nazr cant gaurd Shaq. I know that. SA only plays MIA twice in the year. So oh well. If SA plays MIA in the Finals, then I will want Rasho to start.
So peace dude! It is all about matchups. I think it is good to have BOTH of them, coming playoff.

[ChumpDumper]

DONT BE A HATER:lmao

[angel_luv]

Nazr did play well today.

[TDMGTP]

chump,

are you all out of ideas on how to hate on nazr?????????????

if you can recall i started a support tread about nazr, mostly every on this thread likes nazr and have been asking for him....dont bring that shit "i told you so"...go to sleep you fool.

[Slo spurs fan]

yes 1 game this season rasho showed up to play...cool good for his confidence.

lets just enjoy it, he is on our team DONT BE A HATER. marks is playing better than rasho please, this is stupid.
Is that so?
I think you are a Rasho hater, I am just returning the ball to you.
I am not Nazr hater, but I am angry becouse when Naz has one or two good games you are all over his balls and when Rasho played well it is "just one solid game". So plese just STFU.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't get why it has to be Nazr vs Rasho. They are both Spurs. You guys are supposedly Spurs fans. Why can't you want them both to do well? That would make winning a championship easier.

Nazr had a great game tonight, particularly on the glass, and is making some strides defensively. Just leave it at that without a bashfest on the other players.

[ChumpDumper]

chump,

are you all out of ideas on how to hate on nazr?????????????I never did. That's your problem. Not objective.
if you can recall i started a support tread about nazr, mostly every on this thread likes nazr and have been asking for him....dont bring that shit "i told you so"...go to sleep you fool.Go fuck yourself. All you did was hate on Rasho. I said neither is all that great, which is the truth.

[angel_luv]

I don't get why it has to be Nazr vs Rasho. They are both Spurs. You guys are supposedly Spurs fans. Why can't you want them both to do well? That would make winning a championship easier.

Nazr had a great game tonight, particularly on the glass, and is making some strides defensively. Just leave it at that without a bashfest on the other players.


Preach it sister. Amen and Amen!

[Slo spurs fan]

I don't get why it has to be Nazr vs Rasho. They are both Spurs. You guys are supposedly Spurs fans. Why can't you want them both to do well? That would make winning a championship easier.

Nazr had a great game tonight, particularly on the glass, and is making some strides defensively. Just leave it at that without a bashfest on the other players.
Thank you mrs. Ellis!

So peace dude! It is all about matchups. I think it is good to have BOTH of them, coming playoff.

[T Park]

Nazr might finally be getting that whole defense thing down.


We will see tommarow night how he plays.

He will get minutes vs Troy Murphy.

[TDMGTP]

yea i hate rasho cuz he sucks SO WHAT?
man, ive seen this guy play since he was in min and he was good and i was glad that he came to SA but lets be honest he hasnt had any real contributions to this team. basically we can put anybody in his place like we did during the playoffs with nazr and still win and that anybody will somehow performe better than rasho.

and look now who pop is playing MORE, LOL.

[milkyway21]

Nazr played well against Portland tonight.

very good but,

that sucks...this forum have to think of who they gonna trade now???????? :lol

[boutons_]

Mohammedhu akbar :lol

[ChumpDumper]

yea i hate rasho cuz he sucks SO WHAT?So you're a hypocrite.
and look now who pop is playing MORE, LOL.I'm all for palying whoever does better. Your failure to acknowledge it's not always Nazr is your problem.

If Nazr plays better defense, he plays. Period. I've said this all year when Nazr sucked and you didn't say shit.

[milkyway21]

Mohammedhu akbar :lol:lol

[Kori Ellis]

yea i hate rasho cuz he sucks SO WHAT?
man, ive seen this guy play since he was in min and he was good and i was glad that he came to SA but lets be honest he hasnt had any real contributions to this team. basically we can put anybody in his place like we did during the playoffs with nazr and still win and that anybody will somehow performe better than rasho.

and look now who pop is playing MORE, LOL.

You must not know much about basketball if you think that Rasho sucks a lot more than Nazr. Neither one of them are great players. And Rasho's D has outweighed whatever Nazr has brought to the table so far this regular season. In the end, both of them have some strengths and a lot of weaknesses. But if they can play hard and do what each of them does best, that will help the Spurs on their road to the title.

Nazr has been out of position, slow to rotate, and completely atrocious on D for the majority of the season. And D is where it all starts for the Spurs. But now he's finally catching on to some things and getting in the right spots some of the time. Watch some tape from all the games this season where he is constantly getting yelled at by the coaching staff (and even if you say that doesn't matter) and his teammates. He is constantly getting waved to the right position or getting yelled at by Bowen/Tony/Manu/Pop for missing rotations.

Now, after being here a year, he's finally starting to figure it out. Hopefully that continues because he has some assets.

[ChumpDumper]

BTW,

ATTENTION CONSPIRACY THEORISTS:

How much has Nazr's re-signing price gone up?

[T Park]

As always, Kori breaks it down into the preschool explanation for the basketball tards.


If Nazr can continue to be in position, like he was tonight, and no more getting it the way, I think he regains that starting spot in March.

I loved what I saw tonight.

Except for that 20 foot baseline jumper, WTF was THAT!?!??!!?

[T Park]

Nazr is earning himself a Dampier like contract more than likely now.

[Kori Ellis]

BTW,

ATTENTION CONSPIRACY THEORISTS:

How much has Nazr's resigning price gone up?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think much of what Nazr does on the court will effect how much the Spurs offer him (unless he completely bombs out). The Spurs have a range in mind of how much they want to pay him (just like they always do for free agents) and I don't think much will change about that.

[SenorSpur]

You must not know much about basketball if you think that Rasho sucks a lot more than Nazr. Neither one of them are great players. And Rasho's D has outweighed whatever Nazr has brought to the table so far this regular season. In the end, both of them have some strengths and a lot of weaknesses. But if they can play hard and do what each of them does best, that will help the Spurs on their road to the title.

Nazr has been out of position, slow to rotate, and completely atrocious on D for the majority of the season. And D is where it all starts for the Spurs. But now he's finally catching on to some things and getting in the right spots some of the time. Watch some tape from all the games this season where he is constantly getting yelled at by the coaching staff (and even if you say that doesn't matter) and his teammates. He is constantly getting waved to the right position or getting yelled at by Bowen/Tony/Manu/Pop for missing rotations.

Now, after being here a year, he's finally starting to figure it out. Hopefully that continues because he has some assets.

Let's hope he gets his "assets" in gear :elephant

[TDMGTP]

let see we get on TD when he doesnt play well...well fuck rasho hardly plays well so why should we want him on the team especially when he is paid nearly as much as manu.

you are right I hate rasho, nothing personal but he is a waste of money, and of a roster spot give marks his spot he has shown more life in the last few games than rasho. sucks we are stuck with his contract as a spurs fan i want to see championships and with the exception of TD, MG, RH everyone else can get traded if it makes the team better.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think much of what Nazr does on the court will effect how much the Spurs offer him (unless he completely bombs out). The Spurs have a range in mind of how much they want to pay him (just like they always do for free agents) and I don't think much will change about that.Well that's the whole point of the conspiracy - they want to keep Nazr in that range.

Seems a little early to be giving Nazr all those minutes if you subscribe to the theory -- of course his improved rotations would explain that rationally, but that's less fun....

[milkyway21]

Watch some tape from all the games this season where he
is constantly getting yelled at by the coaching staff (and even if you say that doesn't matter) and his teammates. He is constantly getting waved to the right position or getting yelled at by Bowen/Tony/Manu/Pop for missing rotations..:lmao poor Nazr. this is what i've been missing watching from the sidelines.

[Kori Ellis]

Well that's the whole point of the conspiracy - they want to keep Nazr in that range.

Seems a little early to be giving Nazr all those minutes if you subscribe to the theory -- of course his improved rotations would explain that rationally, but that's less fun....

I don't believe in the conspiracy but I think no matter what, they aren't going to overpay him.

By the way, Horry being out probably has a lot to do with the increase in minutes ;)

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

First congrats to Nazr on a game well played. However, I think it wasnt so much that Rasho sucked. (thanks to all you stat lovers) but I think Pop was looking forward to tomorrow's game against the Warriors. Pop will need Rasho more cause Troy Murphy and the rest of the warriors frontline is much better than anything the blazers could throw at us. I believe that Rasho and Nazr are the best combi that is available at the moment and I pretty much like what we have. Nazr's defense still sucks though. Rebounds does not equal defense. If rebounds equals defense, then Bowen should have 20 rebounds a night. So all you stat lovers out there who love to hate Rasho cause he aint a rebounding giant should go suck a lemon. The only reason why the spurs have been owned on the boards lately is cause Duncan's playing hurt. Duncan's defense hasnt been up to scratch night in night out. Thats why we're giving up a lot more on the interior. Dont treat Rasho as a scapegoat everytime. If you have a healthy Duncan, anyone u put next to him will look good. Duncan was dominant towards the end of last season. Nazr looked good cause of him. U take Duncan out and try to put Nazr as center with Horry and you see what the spurs will look like. But put Rasho in and we wont suck that much. Rasho has proven himself in Duncan's absence. Nazr hasnt proven shit to me without Duncan.

Thats why Duncan is our MVP. He makes and completes this team.

[ChumpDumper]

Right, it wasn't directed at you. I completely agree about the range. If they had one for Tony they'll have one for Nazr.
By the way, Horry being out probably has a lot to do with the increase in minutesThe conspiracy would give them to Marks (or Finley with some good ol' small ball).

[SequSpur]

ummmm.....

Rasho fucking blows

and

Nazr is halfway decent

Nazr has more rebounds in the last 2 games than Rasho had in the first 40.

[timvp]

BTW,

ATTENTION CONSPIRACY THEORISTS:

How much has Nazr's re-signing price gone up?

None.

He's still coming off the bench and playing an inconsistent role. If Nazr plays well in the playoffs, his value will only go up so far. Teams aren't going to break the bank for a guy who can't beat out Rasho, Marks and Fabio for more than half the year.

Look at Jerome James. He put up David Robinson stats in the playoffs and still just got an MLE contract (and without the Knicks, he would have gotten less than that). But imagine if James had done that all year, he would have gotten a max offer.

It's a sly game Pop is playing.

:hat

[ChumpDumper]

Actually James had one good series. One shudders to think what he could've gotten had he put two together.

[SequSpur]

Pop knows Nazr can play when called upon.

Rasho fucking sucks. Therefore by playing him, there might be a ray of light to a trade of this big mistake of Spurs management. I don't think there is anything more to it.

Spurs are leading their division, the conference and on pace to get HCA in the West Conference, the goal of the regular season.

[TDMGTP]

its obvious rasho's contributions WERE NOT needed last yr during the playoffs and the road to the promise land might be similar to last yr. but im sure he will be more useful this time around especially since he has been getting his much deserved rest.

TPARK: i might not know bball as u mentioned, but you and i know that a preschooler can out run your ass.

[ChumpDumper]

I hope Nazr keeps improving.

[SequSpur]

Rasho has no skills.

Next topic.

[TDMGTP]

ultimately we just want another championship.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

i dont doubt that rasho is a better defender but nazr HAS TO HAS TO HAS TO start. there just isnt any debate about this. i'm willing to sacrifice what mediocre D that rasho has for the major plus nazr gives u son the boards. our BIGGEST weakness this season is rebounding not our overall defense. nazr needs to start and get twice the minutes that rasho gets. nazr has had more boards this last game than rasho has had his entire career

[timvp]

Actually James had one good series. One shudders to think what he could've gotten had he put two together.

He had some good games against the Spurs. If he would have had averaged 10 and 8 the whole season, he would be thrice as rich right now.

By making Mohammed work for his playing time, they lessen his value this summer and perhaps make him a hungrier player come playoff time.

Either I'm a really good guesser and got lucky in predicting that Mohammed was going to get inconsistent minutes for most of the season or I'm on to something.

You be the judge.

:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

Seeing the way Nazr plays it wasn't much of a reach IMO. Pop above all wants to play guys he can trust to work the system. Hasn't been Nazr.

You make some rpetty god predictions, I just think the reasons behind this one may be different.

[SequSpur]

All I know is Duncan went out in the 3rd with the scored almost tied, Nazr and Marks led this team for the rest of the quarter and built the lead back up only to reinsert Tim and Portland tied it again.

Duncan played like Nowitski........ Again.

[SequSpur]

I don't understand the obsession as to what a player is worth or how much they are going to get paid....

I don't really care as long as Rasho is gone and the Spurs win.

[Kori Ellis]

None.

He's still coming off the bench and playing an inconsistent role. If Nazr plays well in the playoffs, his value will only go up so far. Teams aren't going to break the bank for a guy who can't beat out Rasho, Marks and Fabio for more than half the year.

Look at Jerome James. He put up David Robinson stats in the playoffs and still just got an MLE contract (and without the Knicks, he would have gotten less than that). But imagine if James had done that all year, he would have gotten a max offer.

It's a sly game Pop is playing.
:hat


http://www.spurstalk.com/ljheli.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

I don't understand the obsession as to what a player is worth or how much they are going to get paid....

I don't really care as long as Rasho is gone and the Spurs win.Well, you're always saying Rasho is worthless, so you're obviously obsessed.

[timvp]

http://www.spurstalk.com/ljheli.jpg

:td

[Slo spurs fan]

I don't understand the obsession as to what a player is worth or how much they are going to get paid....

I don't really care as long as Rasho is gone and the Spurs win.
Short man = short memory

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

Well Nazr is almost playing well enough to spring BigZak's Rasho showcase trade. Anything is possible.

[SequSpur]

Short man = short memory

And?

Rasho still blows.

[milkyway21]

Rasho has no skills


I don't really care as long as Rasho is gone and the Spirs win


Rasho still blows :blah :blah :blah

you see? this is what I meant WHY SequSpur deserve 1 Rasho jersey, Slomo? :lmao

[Slo spurs fan]

:blah :blah :blah

you see? this is what I meant WHY SequSpur deserve 1 Rasho jersey, Slomo? :lmao

He already has one.

[Slo spurs fan]

And?

Rasho still blows.
And?
You are still clueless.

[Slomo]

:blah :blah :blah

you see? this is what I meant WHY SequSpur deserve 1 Rasho jersey, Slomo? :lmao I thought it was obvious!?!?!?

Can you think of a more annoying gift for Sequ?


On a more serious note. I'm glad that Nazr hit his spot 50% of the time he was on the court. As for the idiots who are saying that Rasho had one solid game this year, they should start watching the games, and learn about basketball. I thought Nazr was gradually improving since the Minessota game - from what I had seen before that he was pretty horrible.

Being happy about Rasho's or Nazr's failure doesn't help this team - and I want the team to win another ring this year.

And just for the record everybody on the team, from the coaches and players to the supporting personel, has something to do with its results/success, if you don't understand that you don't understand how a team works (even more true for a championship winning team).

[NZHayden]

i'd like to see rasho and nazr get an equal amount of mins, but should one player be performing on the night, keep him in longer

[Slo spurs fan]

i'd like to see rasho and nazr get an equal amount of mins, but should one player be performing on the night, keep him in longer
:tu

[zeleni]

And?

Rasho still blows.

Since you guys like stats, +/- wise Rasho was the second best only to Ginobili last night.

Nazr was 6th with all the rebounds and praises u gave him. In Denver he was to blame for the loss, here Spurs hardly won. So again Spurs are winning despite Nazr.

Again stats: Popcorn Machine (http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20060201&game=SASPOR)

[Dre_7]

In Denver he was to blame for the loss,

:lmao

I love it! :lol

[Slo spurs fan]

So Dre_7 the truth doesn´t hurt anymore? :)

[Dre_7]

SA didnt lose against Denver because of Nazr. And that is the truth!

[Slo spurs fan]

SA didnt lose against Denver because of Nazr. And that is the truth!
Maybe or maybe not. All I know is when Spurs lose it is always Rashos´ fault.

[zeleni]

SA didnt lose against Denver because of Nazr. And that is the truth!

All I said is that Nazr was blamed. I know that personaly, couse I blamed him.

I even got busy and provided a link to back me up. Nazr was hurting the team by making those great numbers. You said that Parker had a weak game and Tim was not his usual self.

Now we have a healthy great 3 with numbers and Nazr got the majority of minutes.... and we hardly won! They even outblocked Spurs! Nazr got blocked twice I believe.

What is the truth? I hope you are just to lazy for a discussion. Otherwise you are just weak.

[Dre_7]

Maybe or maybe not. All I know is when Spurs lose it is always Rashos´ fault.

I have never blamed Rasho for a lose. Ever.

[Dre_7]

All I said is that Nazr was blamed. I know that personaly, couse I blamed him.

I even got busy and provided a link to back me up. Nazr was hurting the team by making those great numbers. You said that Parker had a weak game and Tim was not his usual self.

Now we have a healthy great 3 with numbers and Nazr got the majority of minutes.... and we hardly won! They even outblocked Spurs! Nazr got blocked twice I believe.

What is the truth? I hope you are just to lazy for a discussion. Otherwise you are just weak.

Huh?

[TwoHandJam]

http://www.spurstalk.com/ljheli.jpg
:lmao

[nkdlunch]

damn lotta hate for Rasho.

It think Rasho would get traded immediately, but I'm afraid noone in the league would give up anything important for him.

[2centsworth]

This whole forum has been elevated in my eyes. Kori and TIMVP lovingly poking fun at each other keeps the forum real.

OK, Rasho has no rythm but he can block shots and is smart. When Nazr finds his rythm he's a much better fit for the spurs. Problem is Nazr has been out of rythm most of the season.

[easjer]

The only response I have to the original poster is: Delusional.

[zeleni]

So Dre_7 the truth doesn´t hurt anymore? :)



Man, that's too much even for me... :lmao :angel

[Peter]

So either we have a starting center who makes himself a presence in the paint and on the glass but might not be sharp on some rotations or we have a starting center who can get to his spots on the floor but is otherwise a non-factor. The former is more of what this team needs. You will have Horry getting heavy minutes in the big rotation in the postseason. He's great, but he's still pretty light for a big. You need the center to be active inside and on the glass to complement that. The Spurs aren't going to be able to get away with Rasho starting against Detroit. Then again, I have no emotional attachment to either Rasho or Nazr. I just want to see the team win.

[spurjur]

I think Rasho has to improve. That's pretty sad when you've been playing with the Spurs for a while. He is great when it comes to defense and knowing where to be on defense, but how can you average less than five rebounds per game when you are starting at center? Since he has come to the Spurs his average in points, rebounds, and blocks have come down. It could be because he is playing less minutes, but let's be real. Rasho needs to play with more energy. Its just not right for him to average less than five rebounds per contest.

I don't know if you start Nazr in place of Rasho, but you have to consider it if Nazr keeps this up. I would really like to see Marks get more minutes. He lays it all out when he is in the game. He does exactly what he is suppose to do when you come off the bench. You have to bring it and he does.

[Peter]

I think the time's up on waiting for Rasho to improve. What you see is what you get. He seems so afraid of committing an error on the court that he's tentative like hell. Nazr's game isn't polished, but he isn't afraid to mix it up inside, be active on the glass and get to the line.

[Slo spurs fan]

Warning!!!! Warning!!!! ^^^^Stat lovers above^^^^

[leemajors]

if you find yourself agreeing with shawn michaels, you may experience a seizure.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Some people have to have someone to bash I guess because the anti Rasho sentiment is just stupid. Rasho is what he is and that is the best help defender on this team. He hits an occasional jumper and is an decent defensive rebounder.

I dont think there is any question that Nazr's ceiling is higher but you do have to be concerned with one thing: this is his second season including a full training camp and the guy seems to have regressed in his knowledge of our system.

I mean I get that he had some family health issues and had to fly back and forth from Lexington and I pull for the guy as a former Wildcat BUT rustiness is no excuse for complete ineptness that he has shown for the last 3 months.

I dont think there is any questiion that Pop has Rasho in the role that he wants at about 15 to 20 minutes per game and whether or not Nazr improves that is not going to change much. What should be telling you something is that Pop is playing Horry more than the both of them.

Robert Horry is the one that is taking Nazr's minutes and considering how Pop wants to rest his key players there is no way that the staff sees this as the ideal situation. Nazr needs to show up against a quality opponent and hopefully he can pull his head out of his ass before we have to play Detroit in the finals.

[easjer]

I seriously doubt that if we lost Rasho's defense, we would be comfortable with Nazr. I shudder everytime he walks onto the court. I'm pleased when he does well, but I will not be sorry to see him leave. People continuously slight Rasho's defense, and I think that is a serious underestimation, especially when you consider the impaired defense of Tim Duncan.

Ideally, we'd get someone better than both combined, or we'd keep both, as they together make a pretty good center. But the reality is that we can't keep both, and unless Nazr sharpens up and learns the rotations a hell of a lot more quickly than he has demonstrated to date and learns how not to foul, he's gone. They'll let him walk because he thinks he's worth more money than he is really worth.

I like Rasho, that's no secret. I don't hate Nazr. If we could get someone great for one or the other, do it. We won't be able to. So let's stick with the guy who fills his role (that role being set by Pop & co, not by fans who want David Robinson reincarnate) - the guy who's always in place on defense, has a nice little jumper, has gotten more aggressive.

[midgetonadonkey]

It seems simple to me, keep them both. When one is sucking play the other.

[Peter]

Rasho is a weak defensive rebounder (2.5 a night?! Yikes). The stats merely show how weak his game is. The only thing the Rasho lovers have to offer is that he knows how to set the occasional pick and get to his spot. Well, that's great, but if he's not asserting himself on the court, which is shown by his weak rebounding and failure to get to the line, then he's not doing his job and someone better needs to be found.

I've never seen Spurs fans so willing to make excuses for a player so weak before.

[nkdlunch]

I seriously doubt that if we lost Rasho's defense, we would be comfortable with Nazr.

We did pretty well without him in the finals vs. Detroit. I might be wrong but he must have played less than 10min /game?

[Peter]

Rasho averaged like 1 minute per game in last June's Finals. I think we can do without him.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, getting to his spot is obviously the priority here for the Spurs. Had Nazr figured this out in the past year, we wouldn't be having this discusion. He wasn't getting the job done.

[Peter]

Then they'll get outrebounded by the Pistons by 20 again and again.

[BigVee]

IF the two are basically equal with each bringing different positives to the game, give me the aggressive guy everytime. It drives me crazy too when I see passes bounce of Nazr's hands, or he gets too far under the basket or whatever. But the man plays with passion. How many times have you seen a rebound apparently up for grabs and then see those long arms of his go up and rip it out of the air? If I am going to war, I am going with someone who is not afraid of contact as opposed to someone who turns away from the basket to shoot a longer shot. BTW he (Rasho) is not ALWAYS in place on defense and commits a lot of stupid fouls.

[ChumpDumper]

It's on Nazr, everyone knows what he needs to do. He just needs to do it.

[Peter]

IF the two are basically equal with each bringing different positives to the game, give me the aggressive guy everytime. It drives me crazy too when I see passes bounce of Nazr's hands, or he gets too far under the basket or whatever. But the man plays with passion. How many times have you seen a rebound apparently up for grabs and then see those long arms of his go up and rip it out of the air? If I am going to war, I am going with someone who is not afraid of contact as opposed to someone who turns away from the basket to shoot a longer shot. BTW he (Rasho) is not ALWAYS in place on defense and commits a lot of stupid fouls.


:tu

[boutons_]

Rasho/Nazr both have difficulty with foul trouble, their klutziness and stupid fouls about equal.

[Tek_XX]

Didn't Rasho win the poll on who should start. I think most Spurs fans on this forum see the light.

Where are these people when Nazr lays a dud?

[boutons_]

Rasho lays plenty of duds. They both do.

But neither is athletic/smart enough to avoid foul trouble and play 36 minutes, and be around for an occasional OT.

[Peter]

Rasho lays more duds than anyone.

[leemajors]

at least he doesn't piss off both his teammates and the coaching staff.

[zeleni]

What is a "dud"?

[Obstructed_View]

i havent really watched the game so im just going by stats and mostly his rebounding contribution.
*sigh*

As you said, let's be real. Defensive lapses cost points. Setting bad screens and missing rotations cost points. Failing to rotate costs points. This isn't fantasy basketball. You need to be informed before you make comments about the team. That is, if you want to be taken seriously. If you don't like Rasho, just admit that you don't like him. You also need to understand that if you are relying on the center position to put up big stats with this team, they aren't going to win anything anyway. If either center ever plays consistently, they'll be the one in the main rotation. The best part is that the other is always there on the bench.

[Rescueone]

All I want is for both of them to THROW IT DOWN WITH SOME AUTHORITY when they are within five feet of the basket. They both think they are Tony Parker or Manu when they are close to the rim, and try to lay it up or tear drop the ball. Which looks absolutely stupid when the ball bounces hard off the back board or off the rim. That's what pisses me off about Rasho and Nazr. DUNK THE DAMN BALL!!! The reason why Nazr keeps getting his shit blocked by everyone is because everyone knows he won't dunk on them. Nazr and Rasho like to take that little 3-5 footer insead of just going up strong and breaking someone's wrist when they try to block the shot! They both are marshmellow soft when it comes to dunking as 7 footers. If they are looking to emulate someone, they both should look at Amare around the rim instead of Parker!

[easjer]

Because the dunk is worth more points. . .

Nazr keeps getting it batted out when he dunks. I've also seen him bounce it off the back of the rim on an attempted dunk. I won't say Rasho's never done anything like that, but if it goes in, I don't care if he prances on his tippy toes and wears a tutu while shooting it from two feet away.

I just don't understand the need to have it dunked. 2 pts is 2 pts.

[timvp]

The bottomline is Rasho can't rebound. I could live with everything else he does (good and bad), but the Spurs can't survive with a center who doesn't rebound. Specifically, it's his defensive rebounding ability that is a problem.

Defensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes
Tim Duncan - 12.0
Nazr Mohammed - 10.4
Sean Marks - 8.2
Robert Horry - 7.1
Fabricio Oberto - 6.4
Rasho Nesterovic - 5.6

5.6 defensive rebounds per 48 minutes is pitiful. The Spurs can't contend for a championship with a center who doesn't rebound. Rasho is freaking 7-foot-3 and gets less rebounds than 6-foot-7 Fabio who doesn't even jump? That won't work.

Either Rasho needs to start rebounding the ball more or the Spurs have to make a change.

[timvp]

To put into perspective how weak that rebounding number is for Rasho, Manu Ginobili and Michael Finley are tied with him.

[Obstructed_View]

5.6 defensive rebounds per 48 minutes is pitiful. The Spurs can't contend for a championship with a center who doesn't rebound. Rasho is freaking 7-foot-3 and gets less rebounds than 6-foot-7 Fabio who doesn't even jump? That won't work.
And Oberto gets tips that lead to rebounds for teammates, and that doesn't even show up on the stats. He has a great nose for the ball. It seems like Rasho could do it if he made the effort, but maybe there's more to it than that.

[Rescueone]

Because the dunk is worth more points. . .

Nazr keeps getting it batted out when he dunks. I've also seen him bounce it off the back of the rim on an attempted dunk. I won't say Rasho's never done anything like that, but if it goes in, I don't care if he prances on his tippy toes and wears a tutu while shooting it from two feet away.

I just don't understand the need to have it dunked. 2 pts is 2 pts.


You prefer the two footer Vs a dunk by a 7 footer? That's Soft and states anyone can block the shot the next time whomever has the ball in close because they like shooting bunny shots. And it usually happens with Rasho and Nazr. If they have a reputation as a hard dunker, no one is going to challenge the dunk in fear on putting them on the line for an extra free throw. i.e Shaq, Amare etc. etc.

[Kori Ellis]

And Oberto gets tips that lead to rebounds for teammates, and that doesn't even show up on the stats.

True, he gets A LOT of tip outs. He's very smart.

[timvp]

If you consider all aspects of the game, I'd say Rasho is a better basketball player than Nazr. But a center that doesn't rebound just won't fly in the NBA. Rasho could be the best defensive center in the league and set the meanest picks around, but if he rebounds the ball like a guard, the team is dead.

[Peter]

Rasho's got a cute grin, though.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

8



That magic number would be Rasho's high game this year for rebounds.



Considering that he's had 17 games in which he's played at least 25 minutes, it's pretty pathetic.

How many 7 footers that have started over half an NBA season can't pull at least one double-double? Hell, I don't even want to talk about points...how about a night with 10 boards? I wonder if that's ever happened in the history of the league where a starting center can't get a single 10 rebound game in over half a season?

I don't care if Rasho's usually in the right place. . .you can put a cardboard dummy in the right place. . .if you can't approach the game with any energy you probably shouldn't be in there.

I posted a few weeks ago that Rasho was probably the lesser of two evils compared to Nazr, but I'm changing my mind. Even with all of Nazr's shortcomings he seems to bring more effort to the table, and has more natural skill. I hope he's given enough minutes to help build his confidence for the playoffs.

[timvp]

Here is a classic stat :spin

Defensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes In January
Tim Duncan - 11.8
Nazr Mohammed - 11.5
Fabricio Oberto - 7.2
Sean Marks - 7.1
Robert Horry - 6.8
Bruce Bowen - 5.5
Michael Finely - 5.1
Melvin Sanders - 5.1
Rasho Nesterovic - 5.1


:lmao

[leemajors]

stats extrapolated to over 48 mins are pretty worthless. don't get me wrong, nazr is a better rebounder, but...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

stats extrapolated to over 48 mins are pretty worthless. don't get me wrong, nazr is a better rebounder, but...




8





Extrapolate that.

[timvp]

If he looks like a bad rebounder live and he looks like a bad rebounder on paper, he's a bad rebounder.

I just hope either Nazr learns defense or Rasho learns to rebound. I really don't care which one it is.

Everything being equal though, the Spurs can survive a poor rotating center before they can survive a center who doesn't rebound.

[leemajors]

all i was saying is that none of those players plays close to 48 mins save duncan & bowen. i'm not saying rasho is a rebounding terror, can you not read? or do you just like the number 8? i would be glad if last night was indicitave of future play for nazr but there is no reason to believe that. i am just fine with him playing like that vs good matchups for him, but we will need rasho against teams like miami. play whoever the matchups indicate should play.

[Obstructed_View]

stats extrapolated to over 48 mins are pretty worthless. don't get me wrong, nazr is a better rebounder, but...
Good point. Ability to stay out of foul trouble correlates to your minutes.

Personal Fouls Per 48 Minutes In January
Nazr Mohammed - 9.1
Fabricio Oberto - 8.5
Sean Marks - 7.5
Melvin Sanders - 7.2
Rasho Nesterovic - 6.6
Manu Ginobili - 5.2

[Bruno]

Another stat :

Spurs Defensive rebounding % :
With Rasho on the court 73.7%
With Nazr on the cout 71.7%

Rasho is a poor rebounder but when he is on court Spurs are a better rebounding team.
Nazr grabs way more defensive rebounds, but it seems that it's mainly over his teammates not over the opponents.

[dknights411]

So have we traded Rasho already or what

[Peter]

Another stat :

Spurs Defensive rebounding % :
With Rasho on the court 73.7%
With Nazr on the cout 71.7%

Rasho is a poor rebounder but when he is on court Spurs are a better rebounding team.
Nazr grabs way more defensive rebounds, but it seems that it's mainly over his teammates not over the opponents.


That difference is negligible. Rasho's individual stats show that he's not carrying the load. Most likely the players Rasho is on the floor most often with (the other starting 4) are carrying his arse.

[Peter]

In addition, if that % is of total team rebounding, then it shows weaker offensive rebounding with Rasho on the court.

[Obstructed_View]

Another stat :

Spurs Defensive rebounding % :
With Rasho on the court 73.7%
With Nazr on the cout 71.7%

Rasho is a poor rebounder but when he is on court Spurs are a better rebounding team.
Nazr grabs way more defensive rebounds, but it seems that it's mainly over his teammates not over the opponents.
What is the stat a percentage of? I was wondering if the team didn't do better when Rasho was in due to his blocking out and better positioning, but I'm not sure that this is the stat that determines that.

[timvp]

That difference is negligible. Rasho's individual stats show that he's not carrying the load. Most likely the players Rasho is on the floor most often with (the other starting 4) are carrying his arse.

Yeah, Rasho plays most of his minutes with the starters. That's why you can't really look at team stats to evaluate his play. Like when someone said earlier in this thread that Rasho had an awesome +/- in the Blazers game ... yeah, that's because he played all his minutes with the starters in.

[Bruno]

In addition, if that % is of total team rebounding, then it shows weaker offensive rebounding with Rasho on the court.

No.
It means that when Rasho is on the court, the opposite team take 10% less of defensive board.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Another stat :

Spurs Defensive rebounding % :
With Rasho on the court 73.7%
With Nazr on the cout 71.7%

Rasho is a poor rebounder but when he is on court Spurs are a better rebounding team.
Nazr grabs way more defensive rebounds, but it seems that it's mainly over his teammates not over the opponents.


I'd like to see the stat for the % of time that Duncan is on the court with Rasho v. Nazr. That might change your stat's significance somewhat.



I still go back to this:



8




Rasho's high rebounding game this SEASON!



Think about that. Ponder it for a moment or two. He's a starting center if I remember! He's 7 feet tall if I'm not mistaken!


You can't slice that up to mean anything but he stinks. What's he doing. . .boxing out so others can get a rebound?

[Peter]

No.
It means that when Rasho is on the court, the opposite team take 10% less of defensive board.


Then Rasho's on the court with a better rebounding (TP, MG, BB, & TD) unit.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd like to see the stat for the % of time that Duncan is on the court with Rasho v. Nazr. That might change your stat somewhat.



I still go back to this:



8




Rasho's high rebounding game this SEASON!



Think about that. Ponder it for a moment or two. He's a starting center if I remember! He's 7 feet tall if I'm not mistaken!


You can't slice that up to mean anything but he stinks. What's he doing. . .boxing out so others can get a rebound?
You keep throwing 8 around. He's never averaged 8 rebounds for a season. His rebounding is down this season but he was never Dennis Rodman.

[Peter]

You keep throwing 8 around. He's never averaged 8 rebounds for a season. His rebounding is down this season but he was never Dennis Rodman.


He's not Reggie freaking Evans with his average.

[Bruno]

Yeah, Rasho plays most of his minutes with the starters. That's why you can't really look at team stats to evaluate his play. Like when someone said earlier in this thread that Rasho had an awesome +/- in the Blazers game ... yeah, that's because he played all his minutes with the starters in.

I agree for +/- stats but not for defensive boards.
You grab less rebounds when you play with Duncan at PF than when you play with Horry or oberto at PF.
I don't say Rasho is a better rebounder than Nazr but only that he is better that what individual stats shows.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You keep throwing 8 around. He's never averaged 8 rebounds for a season. His rebounding is down this season but he was never Dennis Rodman.

You're right. 8 is his HIGH!

He has not reached 10 boards in a game this year!

Do you know how monumental a feat that would be if he could go all season without reaching double-digits?

It's amazing!

[Kori Ellis]

You keep throwing 8 around. He's never averaged 8 rebounds for a season. His rebounding is down this season but he was never Dennis Rodman.

True, but he averaged 7.7 his first season with the Spurs and he averages 4 now.

[Peter]

Individual stats show individual performance. Team stats show what the entire team is doing. It doesn't mean jack when it comes to assessing an individual player's performance, so we're back to where we started...individual stats.

[Obstructed_View]

True, but he averaged 7.7 his first season with the Spurs and he averages 4 now.
As I said, his rebounds are down. He averages 5.1 now, but I know what you are saying. He needs to be more aggressive. I'm sure someone has told him that, which is why it's so maddening that he doesn't do it. It's like people being surprised that he doesn't dunk when he went through drills a couple of years ago where he was just given the ball and told to dunk it over and over again. He's like David Robinson without the talent.

[Kori Ellis]

He averages 5.1 now,

No, he averages 4.1 right now.

[Peter]

DRob looks like Ben Wallace compared to that stiff.

Damn, why the excuses for such a poor performer?

[timvp]

You grab less rebounds when you play with Duncan at PF than when you play with Horry or oberto at PF.


Nope.

When Rasho plays next to Duncan, he averages 8.1 rebounds per 40 minutes. When he plays next to Oberto and Horry, he averages 5.4 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Mohammed, on the other hand, picks up the rebounding slack when needed. Next to Duncan, he averages 9.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. Next to Horry, that number rises to 13.3 and to 11.5 next to Oberto.

So basically, Rasho can't rebound no matter who he plays with and Nazr picks up the slack if he's not on the court with Duncan.

[Obstructed_View]

No, he averages 4.1 right now.
Okay. According to NBA.com, he's averaging 5.1. Where should I go for stats?

[Kori Ellis]

Okay. According to NBA.com, he's averaging 5.1. Where should I go for stats?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/radoslav_nesterovic/index.html?nav=page

You are looking at his points. I thought this discussion was about rebounding.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He's like David Robinson without the talent.

David grabbed 17 rebounds in his last game as a Spur.

Rasho will be lucky to grab seventeen in a playoff series.

[Bruno]

Individual stats show individual performance. Team stats show what the entire team is doing. It doesn't mean jack when it comes to assessing an individual player's performance, so we're back to where we started...individual stats.

Basketball is a team sport and nba is not a fantasy league.

[BigVee]

DRob looks like Ben Wallace compared to that stiff.

Damn, why the excuses for such a poor performer?

That's the part I don't get. His shortcomings are obvious, as are Nazr's. Why the denial by some? Not very objective for some reason. He just isn't very aggressive and a very poor rebounder for his size and position.

[Peter]

Basketball is a team sport and nba is not a fantasy league.


Doesn't matter. The discussion is about what a player brings to the game. I'm sure the Spurs' ever so slightly better defensive rebounding stats with him on the court are due to him and not the players he's on the court with.

His individual stats make it clear that he's not contributing on the glass.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Basketball is a team sport and nba is not a fantasy league.


How about this for reality: The Pistons have crushed us on the boards in the two games we've played them with Rasho starting at center.

He's had enough time to prove how bad he is, and I think he's more than proven himself.

Time to give someone else a chance.

[Peter]

That's the part I don't get. His shortcomings are obvious, as are Nazr's. Why the denial by some? Not very objective for some reason. He just isn't very aggressive and a very poor rebounder for his size and position.


There's no surprise why the Spurs were willing to dump Rasho last summer for TAW's rotting corpse of a career. Maybe someone will take him off their hands or, well, we'll just wait for his contract to expire.

[Slomo]

So either we have a starting center who makes himself a presence in the paint and on the glass but might not be sharp on some rotations or we have a starting center who can get to his spots on the floor but is otherwise a non-factor. The former is more of what this team needs. You will have Horry getting heavy minutes in the big rotation in the postseason. He's great, but he's still pretty light for a big. You need the center to be active inside and on the glass to complement that. The Spurs aren't going to be able to get away with Rasho starting against Detroit. Then again, I have no emotional attachment to either Rasho or Nazr. I just want to see the team win.You shouldn't play down the importance of Nazr's failure to hit his spot. The Spurs success is based on team play and running the schemes as drawn out by the coaches. All the little (sometimes non-obvious) things that drive opponents crazy (funneling the attacker to the baseline towards our bigs, the screens for TP and Ginobili.....) are a results of this mentality. Nazr not only misses a lot of these but actually gets in the way of his teammates. It breaks the plays and frustrates his teammates - the Spurs are not so great when it comes to improvisation (with maybe the exception of Manu). So until he starts playing within it he is a liability for the Spurs system.

I can accept most of Rasho's criticism (the ones with some facts in them) and actually agree with a lot of them, but anytime somebody starts offering Nazr as the solution to those problems just goes to prove that that someone is not watching the game or is just blinded by his hate for Rasho.

The biggest news in this (too) long thread was timvp's claim that Nazr hit his spot 50% of the time. That's once every two plays!!! And it's a very good news because it's a HUGE improvement. If (big IF) he continues on that path then he might become the solution - but until then he just is not!

I want this team to win, that's why I want both of them to improve their plays, because it would give us a presence at the C that would help us a lot! Imagine Rasho improving his rebounding by 3 rebs a game and Nazr remembering the plays (those are pretty modest wishes - right?). And we wouldn't need to be out there looking for questionable trade that may actually hurt us more. I still think that the current roster has the potential to go all the way (I think we may have the only roster were every single player on it is capable of contributing when called upon), but some of the players still need to give us more than they have so far.

I have not other choice than to put my faith in SPAM and look closely at the rodeo trip since this is the time of the year that the Spurs start droping hints of what they are capable of.

[Obstructed_View]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/radoslav_nesterovic/index.html?nav=page

You are looking at his points. I thought this discussion was about rebounding.
Yeah, I'm fucking stupid. I don't know why I looked at the correct column for his career high rebounding but not for this year's. My bad.

Regardless, my point still stands: his rebounds are down, but he was never a great rebounder. Everyone just hoped he could average what Robinson did his final year. We all agree that ain't happening so far.

[leemajors]

it's also easier to clean the glass in garbage time, you are biting your own tail constantly peter. circular logic kills. nazr is a better rebounder, rasho better defender. until we get someone who can do the things both of them combined do you will keep chasing your tail. neither's talents are such that they make either an overwhelming favorite. rasho has simply earned more minutes. quote individual stats all you want, they are obviously not enough to sway the coaching staff.

[timvp]

If only the Spurs could merge their two centers into Nacho Nesterommed.

That would solve all the problems.

:smokin

[Obstructed_View]

I want this team to win, that's why I want both of them to improve their plays, because it would give us a presence at the C that would help us a lot! Imagine Rasho improving his rebounding by 3 rebs a game and Nazr remembering the plays (those are pretty modest wishes - right?). And we wouldn't need to be out there looking for questionable trade that may actually hurt us more. I still think that the current roster has the potential to go all the way (I think we may have the only roster were every single player on it is capable of contributing when called upon), but some of the players still need to give us more than they have so far.

I have not other choice than to put my faith in SPAM and look closely at the rodeo trip since this is the time of the year that the Spurs start droping hints of what they are capable of.
The best two paragraphs I've seen posted in a while. I couldn't agree more.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah, I'm fucking stupid. I don't know why I looked at the correct column for his career high rebounding but not for this year's. My bad.

Regardless, my point still stands: his rebounds are down, but he was never a great rebounder. Everyone just hoped he could average what Robinson did his final year. We all agree that ain't happening so far.

I just want him to average 7. He averaged almost 7 in his last year in Minny I think. He averaged 7.7 in his first year here. So 7 would be fine with me. 4 isn't.

*I'm still not advocating Nazr as being a great answer.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If only the Spurs could merge their two centers into Nacho Nesterommed.

That would solve all the problems.

:smokin


Goooooo Nacho!!!!

:lol







I'm still hoping that David will agree to come out of retirement to play 4th quarters for us in the playoffs. He looks like he could still bring it. Having 2 years off was probably pretty good for his back, too.

[Bruno]

Nope.

When Rasho plays next to Duncan, he averages 8.1 rebounds per 40 minutes. When he plays next to Oberto and Horry, he averages 5.4 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Mohammed, on the other hand, picks up the rebounding slack when needed. Next to Duncan, he averages 9.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. Next to Horry, that number rises to 13.3 and to 11.5 next to Oberto.

So basically, Rasho can't rebound no matter who he plays with and Nazr picks up the slack if he's not on the court with Duncan.

The differencial between Rasho and Nazr is bigger when Duncan is not on the court and Rasho plays 80% of his playtime with Duncan.
When Rasho plays with Duncan he did a good job on the board, Duncan is the starting PF : start Rasho and bring Nazr from the bench when you need his rebounding.

[Obstructed_View]

I just want him to average 7. He averaged almost 7 in his last year in Minny I think. He averaged 7.7 in his first year here. So 7 would be fine with me. 4 isn't.

*I'm still not advocating Nazr as being a great answer.
I agree. I think he could (should) get 7. His minutes are down quite a bit, but they'd probably go back up if he hit the boards in addition to the things he already does well. I think most people would be okay with the baby hooks if he could get some boards.

I also think that a healthy Manu will make a big difference in the offensive rebounding numbers as the season wears on; he's excellent at getting the critical boards.

[Peter]

You shouldn't play down the importance of Nazr's failure to hit his spot. The Spurs success is based on team play and running the schemes as drawn out by the coaches. All the little (sometimes non-obvious) things that drive opponents crazy (funneling the attacker to the baseline towards our bigs, the screens for TP and Ginobili.....) are a results of this mentality. Nazr not only misses a lot of these but actually gets in the way of his teammates. It breaks the plays and frustrates his teammates - the Spurs are not so great when it comes to improvisation (with maybe the exception of Manu). So until he starts playing within it he is a liability for the Spurs system.

I can accept most of Rasho's criticism (the ones with some facts in them) and actually agree with a lot of them, but anytime somebody starts offering Nazr as the solution to those problems just goes to prove that that someone is not watching the game or is just blinded by his hate for Rasho.

The biggest news in this (too) long thread was timvp's claim that Nazr hit his spot 50% of the time. That's once every two plays!!! And it's a very good news because it's a HUGE improvement. If (big IF) he continues on that path then he might become the solution - but until then he just is not!

I want this team to win, that's why I want both of them to improve their plays, because it would give us a presence at the C that would help us a lot! Imagine Rasho improving his rebounding by 3 rebs a game and Nazr remembering the plays (those are pretty modest wishes - right?). And we wouldn't need to be out there looking for questionable trade that may actually hurt us more. I still think that the current roster has the potential to go all the way (I think we may have the only roster were every single player on it is capable of contributing when called upon), but some of the players still need to give us more than they have so far.

I have not other choice than to put my faith in SPAM and look closely at the rodeo trip since this is the time of the year that the Spurs start droping hints of what they are capable of.


Sure, but having no presence in the paint, at the line, and on the glass negates those contributions.

It makes sense that the Spurs are keeping Rasho with the starting unit and Nazr with the second unit due to Rasho's weakness.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm still hoping that David will agree to come out of retirement to play 4th quarters for us in the playoffs. He looks like he could still bring it. Having 2 years off was probably pretty good for his back, too.
I bet he could average 4.1 boards a game.

[timvp]

One thing that stands out to me is if you look at +/- comparing Rasho on the court to when Nazr is on the court. While both are horrible at some things (Nazr at rotating on defense and getting in players' way on offense, and Rasho at rebounding and getting to the free-throw line), it seems like Nazr is the one making his teammates better. I find it odd, but the stats don't lie.

Every player on the roster plays better with Nazr on the court than Rasho. That can't be a fluke.

With Rasho On The Court
Duncan +9
Parker +8
Ginobili +9
Bowen +6
Finley +2
Horry +8

With Nazr On The Court
Duncan +10
Parker +14
Ginobili +13
Bowen +9
Finley +7
Horry +20

Plus, if you look at the best +/- stats overall, Nazr is in impressive company. Top three on the team:

Ginobili +12.1
Horry +12.0
Mohammed +9.8

[Peter]

I agree. I think he could (should) get 7. His minutes are down quite a bit, but they'd probably go back up if he hit the boards in addition to the things he already does well. I think most people would be okay with the baby hooks if he could get some boards.

I also think that a healthy Manu will make a big difference in the offensive rebounding numbers as the season wears on; he's excellent at getting the critical boards.


Reggie Evans averages 7 boards a night in similiar minutes. Malik Rose averaged 5.5 to 6.5 boards a night when he was getting minutes like Rasho.

[Slomo]

If only the Spurs could merge their two centers into Nacho Nesterommed.

That would solve all the problems.

:smokinThanks for summing up my (too) long post :lol

[Bruno]

I don't like the +/- stats, Rasho play more against starter than Nazr.

[timvp]

I don't like the +/- stats, Rasho play more against starter than Nazr.

Yeah but Rasho plays more minutes WITH the starters than Nazr. That should mean more.

[Bruno]

Yeah but Rasho plays more minutes WITH the starters than Nazr. That should mean more.

Spurs are deeper than the opposite team.

[timvp]

The differencial between Rasho and Nazr is bigger when Duncan is not on the court and Rasho plays 80% of his playtime with Duncan.
When Rasho plays with Duncan he did a good job on the board, Duncan is the starting PF : start Rasho and bring Nazr from the bench when you need his rebounding.

Yeah I know but you said that Rasho's numbers were skewed because he plays most of his minutes with Duncan. The truth is that Duncan actually helps Rasho get more rebounds. Next to everyone else, he rebounds much worse.

[SequSpur]

The Spurs won their 3rd championship with Nazr as the starter.

What other stat matters?

Huh?

[Peter]

I don't like the +/- stats, Rasho play more against starter than Nazr.


Right. Rasho started against the Pistons twice this season and the Spurs were outrebounded by an average of 20+. Since team stats make a player, that's pathetic.

Rasho averaged 2.5 boards in those games.

[timvp]

Spurs are deeper than the opposite team.

So Nazr having a better +/- overall and a better +/- when paired with every player on the roster is a fluke?

[BigVee]

I think many are putting too much into Rasho being in the right spot on defense. True he usually gets to the right area, but half the time, because of his lack of athleticism he simply fouls.

[SequSpur]

Right. Rasho started against the Pistons twice this season and the Spurs were outrebounded by an average of 20+. Since team stats make a player, that's pathetic.

Rasho averaged 2.5 boards in those games.


Tpark could get more rebounds than that.

[Bruno]

Yeah I know but you said that Rasho's numbers were skewed because he plays most of his minutes with Duncan. The truth is that Duncan actually helps Rasho get more rebounds. Next to everyone else, he rebounds much worse.

I was wrong on this point.

[Peter]

Playoff basketball is an intense, physical brand of basketball. It's take no quarter. Now between Rasho and Nazr who is more likely to thrive in such a setting? Rasho can't be average, let alone dominant, in the regular season. Are we expecting him to throw a switch come April? Come on.

[SequSpur]

I've already came to terms that Rasho blows. I think it took all of one day, actually while he was a timberwolf.

There is no switch.

I just want to know when the rest are going to see the light.

[Peter]

I think many are putting too much into Rasho being in the right spot on defense. True he usually gets to the right area, but half the time, because of his lack of athleticism he simply fouls.


Exactly. Apparently his great prowess at being on the "right" spot on the court is not showing up in his stats. If he was that adept at it, then he'd be great at boxing out and corralling rebounds.

[BigVee]

Didn't the Spurs already have one playoff run with Rasho starting? And one with Nazr starting?

[Bruno]

So Nazr having a better +/- overall and a better +/- when paired with every player on the roster is a fluke?

Maybe, that's my questioning about +/- stats.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Nice debate.


Applause all around for no one saying "fuck off" or "you f'in prick" anywhere in this thread.






That reminds me, where is TPark?

[Bruno]

Didn't the Spurs already have one playoff run with Rasho starting? And one with Nazr starting?

I'm sure Nazr will have done a better job on Shaq than Rasho. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

I think many are putting too much into Rasho being in the right spot on defense. True he usually gets to the right area, but half the time, because of his lack of athleticism he simply fouls.
If that were true, wouldn't his fouls per 48 minutes be higher than Nazr's? Because of his lack of athleticism he stands in the right spot, plants his feet and puts his hands straight up. It isn't pretty, but it's good defense. It still doesn't change the fact that he needs to nut the fuck up and get some rebounds.

[timvp]

Since December 20th, the Spurs are undefeated in games that Rasho gets at least 4 rebounds. That's not exactly asking the world. If Rasho gets four rebounds, the Spurs win.

In wins this season, Rasho is averaging 5.8 defensive rebounds per 48 minutes. In losses, he is averaging 4.4 defensive rebounds per 48 minutes.

I can live with the thinking that Rasho is the right man for the job as the Spurs starting center ... BUT, he has to live up to his end of the bargain and rebound. The Spurs can't win if Rasho is starting and doesn't rebound.

However, they CAN win if Rasho starts and rebounds. If he can do that then that's great for him and the Spurs. If he can't grab defensive rebounds, the Spurs have to go with Nazr and the shortcomings he brings to the table.

[smdanss]

I agreed with Pop's treatment on Nazr earlier. But after all efforts on Rasho, the records showed that we may have to use Nazr for another title run.

We may see if can financially work out with Nazr after the play off.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Since December 20th, the Spurs are undefeated in games that Rasho gets at least 4 rebounds. That's not exactly asking the world. If Rasho gets four rebounds, the Spurs win.

In wins this season, Rasho is averaging 5.8 defensive rebounds per 48 minutes. In losses, he is averaging 4.4 defensive rebounds per 48 minutes.

I can live with the thinking that Rasho is the right man for the job as the Spurs starting center ... BUT, he has to live up to his end of the bargain and rebound. The Spurs can't win if Rasho is starting and doesn't rebound.

However, they CAN win if Rasho starts and rebounds. If he can do that then that's great for him and the Spurs. If he can't grad defensive rebounds, the Spurs have to go with Nazr and the shortcomings he brings to the table.


I'd bet good money that the rotting corpse of Wilt Chamberlain could outrebound Rasho on certain nights if you could stand him up under the defensive basket and somehow bend his arms so they're reaching up.

[Obstructed_View]

I agreed with Pop's treatment on Nazr earlier. But after all efforts on Rasho, the records showed that we may have to use Nazr for another title run.

We may see if can financially work out with Nazr after the play off.
Pop hasn't really gone Serbian on anyone yet this season. We might just wait and see who responds best to it once he does. That's not as much fun, though.

[Peter]

If that were true, wouldn't his fouls per 48 minutes be higher than Nazr's? Because of his lack of athleticism he stands in the right spot, plants his feet and puts his hands straight up. It isn't pretty, but it's good defense. It still doesn't change the fact that he needs to nut the fuck up and get some rebounds.


I think the lower foul total is evidence of Rasho's relative lack of aggression on the court. It's also on display in his mere 22 trips to the line in 46 games this season.

[BigVee]

If that were true, wouldn't his fouls per 48 minutes be higher than Nazr's? Because of his lack of athleticism he stands in the right spot, plants his feet and puts his hands straight up. It isn't pretty, but it's good defense. It still doesn't change the fact that he needs to nut the fuck up and get some rebounds.


No, I think it would just substantiate the feeling that Nazr is USUALLY out of position, therefore fouls even more.

[Dre_7]

All I am asking is that Nazr get more PT. Thats all. I am not saying Rasho sucks, or that I hate him. Not at all. I want Rasho to play well. I want him to be the Rasho he was in the MIA game. Also, though, I want Nazr to get more time. I mean, so far this year, when Nazr gets time (not just scrub time, but REAL time) he does well.

Just give him PT!!!

[Peter]

No, I think it would just substantiate the feeling that Nazr is USUALLY out of position, therefore fouls even more.


I think it substantiates the position that Mohammed is in the midst of the fray, asserting himself in the paint while Rasho tends to be out of the mix.

[Dre_7]

Nice debate.


Applause all around for no one saying "fuck off" or "you f'in prick" anywhere in this thread.






That reminds me, where is TPark?

:lmao

[Obstructed_View]

I think it substantiates the position that Mohammed is in the midst of the fray, asserting himself in the paint while Rasho tends to be out of the mix.
You could suggest that the higher fouls is because Nazr is more aggressive, but trying to infer that Nazr is more in position to make defensive plays is just ridiculous.

[timvp]

It'll be interesting to see what happens tonight. Rasho has to know that it is time to step his game up. Pop has given him a quick hook in each of the last two games. And the last time Nazr was in Golden State, he put up 19 points, 15 rebounds and four blocks.

[GO SPurs Go]

nazr has been solid since that denver game and with limited minutes. i havent really watched the game so im just going by stats and mostly his rebounding contribution.
marks has also played well so good for us now we can get rid of rasho because marks can shoot better than rasho from the perimeter.
RASHO- dude is getting out rebounded by everyone on the team, damn marks is rebounding better and he hasnt been playing. NO MORE EXCUSES NO MORE HE PLAYS BETTER DEFENSE FUCK THAT HE SUCKS!
NAZR, MARKS, OBERTO >>>>>>>RASHO

lets be real. truth hurts angelluv but dont worry just smile queen.

peace
Wow, you all rip Rasho for his 5/5 games but when he has a 15 point game you all jump on the bandwagon. And no, Marks isn't gonna go jumping into the lineup. Saying he has been playing better than rasho is a mistake. He only has to play 5-10 minutes a game compared to Rasho's 25+

[Peter]

You could suggest that the higher fouls is because Nazr is more aggressive, but trying to infer that Nazr is more in position to make defensive plays is just ridiculous.

What? Who's more efficient at rebounding? Rebounding is a defensive play.

[Peter]

It'll be interesting to see what happens tonight. Rasho has to know that it is time to step his game up. Pop has given him a quick hook in each of the last two games. And the last time Nazr was in Golden State, he put up 19 points, 15 rebounds and four blocks.


GS gives up on average the second most # of total rebounds per game in the NBA. If Rasho can't have a decent night on the glass tonight...

[Obstructed_View]

It'll be interesting to see what happens tonight. Rasho has to know that it is time to step his game up. Pop has given him a quick hook in each of the last two games. And the last time Nazr was in Golden State, he put up 19 points, 15 rebounds and four blocks.
Yep. I hoped that having Nazr on the team would make Rasho fight harder for his job. Maybe a couple of weeks of DNPs will help. Hopefully everybody will start taking things seriously pretty quick.

[Obstructed_View]

What? Who's more efficient at rebounding? Rebounding is a defensive play.
The original post was about fouls. Substitute the word "rebounds" and I'm in complete agreement with everything you've said.

[T-Pain]

durka durka durka mohammed jihad!

[Trainwreck2100]

Nazr is ready to start and Marks as backup

http://www.ezekielbearsports.com/bbs/images/smilies/4_1_72%5B1%5D.gif

[TDMVPDPOY]

marks want the starting job soon i think

[GoSpurs21]

where the fuck was Nazr tonight?
actually I would love for both Rasho and Nazr to play great but guess what, Rasho is just more competent in the Spurs defense scemes than Nazr. I trust in Pop alot more than the internet geeks that think they can be an coach in the NBA. You can slam me all you want but you will NEVER be able to take away my playoff tickets, so I guess I have realized your lame ass opinions mean jack shit to me.

Feel free to discuss amoungst yourselves, I am just greatful that my hard earned dollars arent effected by lame ass knee jerk reactions like the ones on this forum.

KG has no rings, Rasho has at least one, that in itself lets me know there is a god.

[Tek_XX]

Pop>internet geeks

[T Park]

Marcus Cryant, quite silent....

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Where are all the Rasho haters now? I mentioned that Pop was keeping Rasho for GSW and I have been vindicated! Trust Pop to throw the right guy at the right time. But seriously Rasho is a better fit for the spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

Where are all the Rasho haters now? I mentioned that Pop was keeping Rasho for GSW and I have been vindicated! Trust Pop to throw the right guy at the right time. But seriously Rasho is a better fit for the spurs.
The fucking dude is still averaging 4 rebounds a game. Until he does it a couple of times in a row, his ass is still on the hook.