Is This a case of Political Correctness? Zachry Employee fired after e-mail.

[Buddy Holly]

Zachry is stung by another e-mail

Web Posted: 02/02/2006 12:00 AM CST

Laura E. Jesse
Express-News Staff Writer

A 27-year employee of Zachry Construction Corp. was fired this week for sending an e-mail from the company's server to City Councilwoman Elena Guajardo with what she called "very racial and very discriminatory" comments.

It was the second time in eight months that a Zachry employee has embarrassed the company by sending an e-mail containing disparaging remarks about various parts of the city.

"When I read it I thought, 'Another e-mail from Zachry. What is going on?'" Guajardo said Wednesday.

George Dickerson, who worked in the company's procurement department, wrote to complain about Graham Central Station, a large nightclub on Fredericksburg Road. It's across the street from the subdivision where he lives.

Dickerson wrote that the club attracts "undesirable, low class elements from bad parts of the city into our upper class part of the city for which we pay a very large tax burden in which to live to be safe and away from such elements."

He also wrote that the entertainment at the club "is of a lude, lascivious, low class, debaucheristic, criminalistic, riot insistic, anarchistic nature. Thereby inciting the absolute worst behavior from the worst possible type of patron."

Those patrons, he went on, come from the "lower class bad parts of the city" and that the club should be forced to relocate to one of those areas, "thereby containing all of these very serious problems within the areas in which these types of criminal debaucheric behavior occur on a regular basis."

Contacted at home Wednesday, Dickerson refused to comment.

Vicky Waddy, Zachry's public affairs director, said the company was disappointed to learn of the e-mail and that it was a violation of the company's policy on computer use.

Last summer, Ken Wolf, who was vice president of Metropolitan Resources Inc., a Zachry subsidiary, resigned after he sent an e-mail through a company computer in May saying the SBC Center, now AT&T Center, was built "in the ghetto" because of a lack of leadership in city government.

Waddy said the company will increase its training on the computer-use policy and remind people about its e-mail policy.

The fallout from Wolf's May e-mail included a public apology from H.B. Zachry Jr., who heads the company, and a community effort to scrap plans to give Zachry Realty Inc. $1.9 million in tax money for a Staybridge Suites Hotel near Sunset Station.

Eventually the company agreed to give $750,000 to the East Side's Community Economic Revitalization Agency to help lure jobs to the East Side, and they trimmed the original request for tax money to $1 million.

"The bottom line is it's not the Zachrys, but that's what concerns me: It came from their company," said Guajardo, whose district is heavily Hispanic. "We have a beautiful city and we can't pit one side of town against another."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA020206.01B.Zachry_email.17f524e4.html

-------------------------------------------------------------

The thing is, this guy never mentions race once. Just class.

And with the recent going ons at Graham Central... I'd agree.

[ChumpDumper]

That place used to be a KMart -- how upper class could the neighborhood be?

Why is he sending this from work?

Props for the Johnnie Cochranisms though.

[TheTruth]

isn't grahams closing in march?

[ObiwanGinobili]

Dickerson wrote that the club attracts "undesirable, low class elements from bad parts of the city into our upper class part of the city for which we pay a very large tax burden in which to live to be safe and away from such elements."

whoa whoa whoa... wait a min.

Has he seen the apartments right next to Graham Central?????? helllooooooo!!
those arn;t exactly high-class joints!!
Now yes- direstly across the street is a oretty snazzy neighborhood. but they are safely seperated from the rest of the world by a brick embankment and security fencing with gates.

[Buddy Holly]

Holy crap, KSAT reported at noon that this guy killed himself today.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Holy crap, KSAT reported at noon that this guy killed himself today.


holleeeee fuckkkkk!!!!! :wow

:depressed that is so sad.
but I'd be wondering what the fuck I was gonan do with my life after getting publicly humiliated and fired from a career too...... dont; think I'd off myself.... but i can kinda see what this guy was thinking.

[Trainwreck2100]

-------------------------------------------------------------

The thing is, this guy never mentions race once. Just class.

And with the recent going ons at Graham Central... I'd agree.

Maybe If he wrote it like this

*ahem*

Dear Council Lady,

I leave on the area of town by the Graham Cetrel Station. I write to jew because of problems I am having due to the growing number of cholos y negritos coming up to my home drunk and starting sheet. Here I am just minding my business and some motherfucker comes and threatens me with a knife. And I was like are jew threateneeng me with a knife. And he was like "si vato I weel cut you, I will cut you so much, you no want to be cut no more. Si'mon I was like "let me just go say goodbye to my family", and he was like sure. Orale, so I went inside and grabbed my gun and I only meant to scare heem. Pues he saw the gun and ran, I shot him anyway. Pero it was only in the leg. And he was like "you chot me guey" and I said "Porgue, jew were going to cut me" and he said "Yeah, but I wasn't going to choot you" Si'mon long story short, Can you do something about the light at the intersection of Callaghan and Fredricksburg, because it turns from green to red awfully fast?

Yours in Christ,
Me

[Trainwreck2100]

^^I wrote this before I found out the guy offed himself.

[JoeChalupa]

If true it is terrible tragedy.
Why can't we all just get along?

[2Blonde]

Maybe If he wrote it like this

*ahem*

Dear Council Lady,

I leave on the area of town by the Graham Cetrel Station. I write to jew because of problems I am having due to the growing number of cholos y negritos coming up to my home drunk and starting sheet. Here I am just minding my business and some motherfucker comes and threatens me with a knife. And I was like are jew threateneeng me with a knife. And he was like "si vato I weel cut you, I will cut you so much, you no want to be cut no more. Si'mon I was like "let me just go say goodbye to my family", and he was like sure. Orale, so I went inside and grabbed my gun and I only meant to scare heem. Pues he saw the gun and ran, I shot him anyway. Pero it was only in the leg. And he was like "you chot me guey" and I said "Porgue, jew were going to cut me" and he said "Yeah, but I wasn't going to choot you" Si'mon long story short, Can you do something about the light at the intersection of Callaghan and Fredricksburg, because it turns from green to red awfully fast?

Yours in Christ,
Me

That's awful ! :lmao

[pache100]

He also wrote that the entertainment at the club "is of a lude, lascivious, low class, debaucheristic, criminalistic, riot insistic, anarchistic nature. Thereby inciting the absolute worst behavior from the worst possible type of patron."

Spoken like a true patron. Or a true idiot. Only someone who has frequented the place could actually KNOW that. Or, an idiot who has NOT been there but assumes that's what kind of place it is.

I'm not defending Graham Central Station. I have never been to the one in San Antonio, so I have no idea what goes on there. But, high-and-mighty, holier-than-thou assholes like this really tick me off.

And, in defense of Zachary...if it's their policy not to allow personal emails be sent from the company server...that in and of itself is enough reason to fire this guy (especially after TWO infractions and a warning). It doesn't matter who the email was going to or what it said.

And, for the record, I'm sorry the guy killed himself...but he obviously had bigger problems than this.

[Buddy Holly]

Spoken like a true patron. Or a true idiot. Only someone who has frequented the place could actually KNOW that. Or, an idiot who has NOT been there but assumes that's what kind of place it is.

All you need to do is watch the news.

They recently had their liquor license revoked.

A patron left GCS intoxicated which led to him crashing into another car killing the driver.



I'm not defending Graham Central Station. I have never been to the one in San Antonio

Yet you criticize the guy who lived near the damn place and probably (hell, he did) had a much better POV of what's going on. Nice.

[PM5K]

Spoken like a true patron. Or a true idiot. Only someone who has frequented the place could actually KNOW that. Or, an idiot who has NOT been there but assumes that's what kind of place it is.

I'm not defending Graham Central Station. I have never been to the one in San Antonio, so I have no idea what goes on there. But, high-and-mighty, holier-than-thou assholes like this really tick me off.


So why is it not ok for him to assume what does goes on there, but it is ok for you to assume what doesn't?

He assumed and he was spot on, people drink there, get drunk, they dance and have mini skirt contests and the like.

Does the club increase the crime rate in the area, I don't know off hand.

Does he live in an "Upper Class" area, not really.

I live in Crownridge, I consider that upper class.

Should he send that email from work, no.

Should he be fired for it, not when you work somewhere for twenty-seven years...

Is this councilwoman a fucking tattletale little bitch, yes.

Does everyone that goes to GCS come from bad parts of the city, well I've been there, and I'm sure many people from the upper North West side have been there as well and I consider that a more upper class area than where he lives.

Is this guy kind of retarded, yeah...

[pache100]

So why is it not ok for him to assume what does goes on there, but it is ok for you to assume what doesn't?

I'm not assuming anything. I said I had never been there. What is your problem?

[Trainwreck2100]

Is this guy kind of retarded, yeah...

No he's not

[pache100]

No he's not

Well, not anymore, anyway.

[JoeChalupa]

People come out intoxicated from high class establishments too.
This is a touchy issue though.

[PM5K]

Ok he was retarded...

[PM5K]

...

[Vashner]

Yea.. But you have to either have one of 2 things.
A signed copy of Terms of Use of employee or govt computers.
A login warning with password "Use of this computer is consent to monitoring - for official use only blah blah".

[Melmart1]

I live just down the street from there when I am in town, and I have to agree with Obi- the high-class apts and stuff are secluded with a gigantic brick wall. The rest is pretty bad.

And though most crime does not increase because of the patronage of the place, drunk driving does. I have passed by three times on my way home and seen horrible accidents on Fred. Rd. beacuse of this place. In one of them, the other car was LITERALLY snapped in half, and they had already covered up a body. Another time people were fighting... in the middle of the road! They got out of their cars and were fighting.. over an uuugly chick! Talk about beer goggles! And those are just the incidents I saw the times I had been out myself and on the way home at 2am.

Of course, as someone already pointed out, these things coudl happen anywhere, at a 'high-class' establishment as well. I personally don't go for clubs, especially with thier 'format', so I stay away. But more power to whoever wants to go.

But to say that neightborhood is anything but (mostly) struggling peeps living paycheck to paycheck is crazy.

[exstatic]

It's a shame that people don't just take a deep breath, sometimes. He obviously didn't learn from the VP that HPZ let go about a year ago for doing basicly the same thing: using company e-mail in an inappropriate manner. He also probably was not a local newswatcher, or he would know that his problem was about to take care of itself. GCS is about an eyelash away from losing their liquor license, and no license, no club, end of story.

[N.Y. Johnny]

isn't grahams closing in march?


Good, then that place should be condemned.

[Useruser666]

I was very surprised at the story when it first came out and now the suicide is even more surprising. I think it was totally unfair and absolutley inappropriate for the email to be "leaked" by the council woman's office. I don't know the man's state of mind and have no idea what he went through, but I would have taken civil action and not ended my life. If H B Zachary was fair, they would fire every single employee there because they all use the company email for personal use. This is yet another strike against SA city council.

[Peter]

I was very surprised at the story when it first came out and now the suicide is even more surprising. I think it was totally unfair and absolutley inappropriate for the email to be "leaked" by the council woman's office. I don't know the man's state of mind and have no idea what he went through, but I would have taken civil action and not ended my life. If H B Zachary was fair, they would fire every single employee there because they all use the company email for personal use. This is yet another strike against SA city council.


:tu

Totally no reason at all for her to do what she did. The upside is that she gets to live with this for the rest of her life.

[CharlieMac]

He was right. That place is a dump and has gotten trashy lately. And by "lately", I mean it got trashy about a month after it opened.

I don't even think she cares about his family, I'm sure the first thing that wen't through her mind was her career when she found about about the suicide.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Exactly how hard would it have been for her to begin a dialogue with her constituent instead of reporting him to his company?

What would she have done if he had sent the e-mail from his personal account. I have a feeling she knew that Zachry would fire him if she reported him to them.

[CharlieMac]

I think she did it so that she could get her name in the news really. She figured this dude would be an easy mark to play the race card with since he was a white guy complaining about trash from other parts of the city going to that club. Which is completely true by the way. She knew what she was doing when she made a contact to get him canned.

[Old School Chic]

I think she did it so that she could get her name in the news really. She figured this dude would be an easy mark to play the race card with since he was a white guy complaining about trash from other parts of the city going to that club. Which is completely true by the way. She knew what she was doing when she made a contact to get him canned.

I agree 100%

[Buddy Holly]

FYI, Zachry said he was fired because of the bitchass complaint from the coucilwoman, not for using the company computer to send out a personal e-mail.

[Buddy Holly]

Zachry employee fired over e-mail commits suicide

Web Posted: 02/03/2006 12:00 AM CST

Brian Chasnoff
Express-News Staff Writer

A former employee of Zachry Construction Corp. died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to his head Thursday — the same week he was fired for sending an e-mail to a city councilwoman who deemed the message "very racial and very discriminatory."

George Dickerson, 52, was pronounced dead around 9:15 a.m. in the backyard of his home in the 600 block of Glencrest. Police said his death was a suicide.

His suicide occurred the same day the San Antonio Express-News ran an article detailing an e-mail Dickerson sent Monday to City Councilwoman Elena Guajardo. In it, Dickerson complained about Graham Central Station, a large nightclub across from Oak Hills, the Northwest Side subdivision where Dickerson lived with his wife.

In a short note left on a desk, Dickerson wrote, "Due to past and current events, I've decided to end my life," said John Oberman, a cousin of Dickerson's.

"I don't think (media coverage) was an issue" in the suicide, Oberman said, speaking Thursday morning outside Dickerson's home. "I think he was mostly upset over losing his job."

A local psychologist, speaking in general terms, said it is rare for a single event in a person's life to drive him or her to suicide.

"In general, when people do suicide, there's really a lot more than just being fired that has taken place," said Dr. Elizabeth Stanczak, a psychologist at the University of Texas at San Antonio.

The Express-News generally does not report on suicides unless they or the circumstances surrounding them are public.

Guajardo expressed sadness after learning about the suicide, which became the buzz of talk radio stations throughout the day. The councilwoman said she didn't expect Dickerson's e-mail to become an issue of media interest.

"Personally, it was never the intent to go to the media," Guajardo said. "And we did not, our office did not. My heart just really goes out to the family right now." (Yeah right...)

The Express-News obtained a copy of the e-mail through a third party.

On Wednesday, Guajardo called Zachry to ask that Dickerson not be fired, according to John Puder, the councilwoman's assistant. She suggested the company put Dickerson in sensitivity training or allow him to volunteer in a low-income district, Puder said.

In his e-mail to Guajardo, Dickerson had railed against the "undesirable, low-class elements from bad parts of the city" that the club attracts "into our upper-class part of the city for which we pay a very large tax burden in which to live to be safe and away from such elements."

He also wrote that entertainment at the club was of a "lude, lascivious, low-class, debaucheristic, criminalistic, riot insistic, anarchistic nature."

Dickerson lived in Oak Hills about eight years and recently had met with the neighborhood association to discuss problems with Graham Central Station, which is on Fredericksburg Road just outside Loop 410. His e-mail to Guajardo was meant to rectify long-standing safety concerns related to the nightclub, Oberman said.

Dickerson "was not racist," Oberman said. "He was concerned about beer bottles, fast drivers and a lot of ruckus going on that was not good for his neighborhood."

Vicky Waddy, a spokeswoman for Zachry, said Dickerson was fired for violating the company's computer use policy.

Zachry issued a prepared statement Thursday that read, "We are shocked and saddened to learn of George's death. We regret that this matter became public and evolved into a personal tragedy."

Dickerson, whom friends and relatives affectionately called "Trip," was an engineer and a builder of antique cars.

"He was a kind, quiet person," Oberman said.

According to a police report, Dickerson's wife told police her husband was "very depressed" after being fired from Zachry, where he had worked for 27 years, most recently in the procurement department.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA020306.01B.zachry_folo.1cf0d047.html

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

She needs to lose her job over this debacle.

[Trainwreck2100]

She needs to lose her job over this debacle.

Damn right, a constituent sent her a complaint, and instead of responsing to him, he goes to his boss.

[Despot]

Damn right, a constituent sent her a complaint, and instead of responsing to him, he goes to his boss.

I had not thought of it that way....he did have the right to his opinion, it is her job to listen, she does not have to agree, or do anything about it. Almost every neighborhood has a neighbor they wish would leave becuase of a messy yard, broken down cars. What kind of club is this, brokeback? Rave?
Did this councilwoman vote or push for the tougher restrictions at strip clubs?

And going to the boss was out of line, the letter was not threatening, or racial, was a little misguided though. Is there an oath that you take when you become a council(wo)man? Any way to find it?

[CharlieMac]

It's a shame that people don't just take a deep breath, sometimes. He obviously didn't learn from the VP that HPZ let go about a year ago for doing basicly the same thing: using company e-mail in an inappropriate manner. He also probably was not a local newswatcher, or he would know that his problem was about to take care of itself. GCS is about an eyelash away from losing their liquor license, and no license, no club, end of story.

I think they had until March to clean up their act after it was known that bartenders continued to serve drunk clubgoers. I want to say it was because some kid killed a passenger in his car coming out of GCS along Callaghan. He was doin about 100 mph or some shit.

This guy had a pretty valid complaint.

[Despot]

http://www.victoryfund.org/index.php?src=blog&category=Main&pos=50,50,277



A whopper of a chat!
Whoever said chatting online was all fun and games never chatted with Victory supporters! The typical Victory community member is politically astute and very knowledgeable of current events. The several dozen of you who joined the Horizon Campaign chat today proved that. Though lots of topics were covered, the discussion centered on Victory Fund’s work to identify and train potential qualified candidates in states that lack ANY openly LGBT representation (Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, etc.) and states with openly gay officials, but not yet at the state legislative level (Texas, Florida, New Jersey, etc.). Here are a few of my favorite Q & As from today’s chat:

pinkwhiteblue: Are there many campaigns going on in Texas or Alabama?
robin_brand> We hope to have a race in Alabama next year. There is a Victory Fund event in Birmingham tonight to talk about getting more candidates and wins in AL and around the South. In Texas, Sue Lovell has a great shot at winning an at-large city council race in Houston. Elena Guajardo became the first LGBT person elected to the San Antonio city council in June.

LGBT Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Trans

I don't care if she is gay, but if that was the reason for her going after this guy, THAT IS WRONG!

So, was it a gay bar???

[PM5K]

Not a gay club.

And I think she should resign...

[Despot]

She has a good resume
She paid $350 for a four day training to learn how to win a campaign.

http://www.victoryinstitute.org/index.php?src=forms&id=Candidate%20and%20Campaign%20Training%20Applica tion%20Form

[Peter]

LGBT Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Trans

I don't care if she is gay, but if that was the reason for her going after this guy, THAT IS WRONG!

So, was it a gay bar???


I don't think so.

She jumped to some conclusions and she ended up wrecking the man's life. Granted, suicide is not an outcome to be expected, but did she really expect that she could complain about him without him getting in serious shit?

Totally unprofessional on her part for her to do what she did. Since she's a politician, I suppose there could have been other considerations at play. But what did she know about the man? A person of any race could have written that email. Maybe she needs some sensitivity training.

[Buddy Holly]

http://www.sanantonio.gov/council/

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

How can I e-mail the council women. I tell that little goody goody off. What a crybaby bitch. It didn't seem like he personally attacked her he's just upset the whole world is going into the can. Its sad when we live in a world where someone can voice a concern and in a blink of the eye a personal observation takes everything away. Sure he shouldn't have sent the e-mail but its not like he ask what color her panties are.

Someone find me her e-mail I'll show her discrimination.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/council/d7/

[email protected]

Phone: 210-207-7044

[SpursWoman]

Thank you!


Don't do it from work :fro

[pache100]

And, for the record, I'm sorry the guy killed himself...but he obviously had bigger problems than this.

Yep...


A local psychologist, speaking in general terms, said it is rare for a single event in a person's life to drive him or her to suicide.

"In general, when people do suicide, there's really a lot more than just being fired that has taken place," said Dr. Elizabeth Stanczak, a psychologist at the University of Texas at San Antonio.

And, judging from what his brother said...his family doesn't have a clue.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Don't do it from work :fro
:lmao

__________________________________________________ __________

also-
the man never once mentioned race in his letter to her.

and anyone whose drunk driving, fighting in the street, throwing beer bottles, and making a fool of themselves @ 330 am is lowclass. I don;t care how much money they make or don;t make. thats low class...... and Graham Central certainly falls into that catergory. Didn't they just get thier liquor licsence revoked??

that lady is a bitch.
I don't think the area was alll that , that the guy should be complaining. And I do think his email was over the top. But come on! running liek a cry abby to his boss?? low. that was low.

and he was 52, had been working there for 27 years!! You know what he was losing when he got fired?? 401k, insurance, pension, stocks... you name it.
he was losing retirement & security... and would basicly have to start form scratch seeing as how he was FIRED from his last job.

all becasue his representitive doesn't belive that there are low-class people in the world.

[Despot]

And please don't use a Spurstalk email address, would hate for you to get banned or have the site shut down.

[CharlieMac]

http://www.chrisduel.com/

http://www.chrisduel.com/Demail1.gif



http://www.chrisduel.com/email2.gif

[Vashner]

The guy was a loozer.... move your ass away from the entertainment sector. Let people live life and have a smile.

YOUR IN THE MIDDLE of a big fucking city dumbass move if you want solitude.

People picking on the counsel are wrong. The guy asked for trouble and he got it. But he didn't have to off himself. That was stupid as any suicide is. Anyone feeling that way should seek help.

[AFE7FATMAN]

Not really important to the discussion but
just a thought.

After 27 years he got fired for sending an e-mail :pctoss
Why not a suspension and back to work after 30days without pay.

27years is a long time. I wonder :angel if it was beause of who the e-mail went to and the content therof:

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

The guy was a loozer.... move your ass away from the entertainment sector. Let people live life and have a smile.

YOUR IN THE MIDDLE of a big fucking city dumbass move if you want solitude.

People picking on the counsel are wrong. The guy asked for trouble and he got it. But he didn't have to off himself. That was stupid as any suicide is. Anyone feeling that way should seek help.

The guy wanted a safe neighborhood.

He paid his taxes like everybody else and sought help from an elected official who thought she'd play hero.

[Vashner]

Trust me I know his kind. They think the computer at work belongs to them. If you owned a company you would not want that kind of crap coming off your hardware and email service.

I am sure this big company has an IT use policy. Getting fired is no big deal everyone looses there job.

He appeared to be a bigot.. "I suggest relocate to lower class".

What's that supposed to mean? Poor people have the same rights as he.

[Trainwreck2100]

The guy was a loozer.... move your ass away from the entertainment sector. Let people live life and have a smile.

YOUR IN THE MIDDLE of a big fucking city dumbass move if you want solitude.

People picking on the counsel are wrong. The guy asked for trouble and he got it. But he didn't have to off himself. That was stupid as any suicide is. Anyone feeling that way should seek help.

It's hus constitutional right to bitch about his city, without people like that we would be drinking recycled water, planning to attend the grand opening of the PGA village, etc...Did those people move to another city, no they used their rights, just like he used his to write to his councilwoman.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

He appeared to be a bigot.. "I suggest relocate to lower class".



I'm glad you've decided to post amongst us, Councilwoman Guajardo.

[Vashner]

If you move into an Apartment with an established club next door that's your choice.

The guy used some harsh words. I grew up poor in this city and I take offense to some jackass trying to move a club because everyone there is low class.

Obviously it was a racial / class insult. This lady did the right thing. Don't let some idiot insult your people.

One needs to treat the rich and poor of San Antonio with some respect. I have no pity for a guy that wanted to shit on some "lower class" people.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

If you move into an Apartment with an established club next door that's your choice.

The guy used some harsh words. I grew up poor in this city and I take offense to some jackass trying to move a club because everyone there is low class.

Obviously it was a racial / class insult. This lady did the right thing. Don't let some idiot insult your people.

One needs to treat the rich and poor of San Antonio with some respect. I have no pity for a guy that wanted to shit on some "lower class" people.

Perhaps reading is something you should try sometime.



Dickerson lived in Oak Hills about eight years and recently had met with the neighborhood association to discuss problems with Graham Central Station, which is on Fredericksburg Road just outside Loop 410. His e-mail to Guajardo was meant to rectify long-standing safety concerns related to the nightclub, Oberman said.


IIRC, Graham wasn't open at that location eight years ago.

And if you think about it some more, a state agency thought something wrong was going on there if they were in the process of having their liquor license revoked.

Guess what, I grew up poor in San Antonio, too. I also grew up Hispanic in San Antonio, too.

Lemme ask you this, do you have a problem with residents asking for their subdivisions to become "gang-free" zones? Do you have a problem when neighborhoods petition to have strip clubs removed? They're also asking that the city do something to remove a group of citizens from their neighborhoods as well.

Strange, I have the feeling that from Dickerson's letter, he was trying to do that, too.

Guess what, it's the same thing.

[Buddy Holly]

Vashner is a dumb fuck.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I think it's funny that Vashner is hurt by words when he's always so ready to sling them out.

You know what, Vash? Just for you, I'm going to start one of my favorite pasttimes again. I wonder how big the file would be if I asked the TABC for all of the complaints about GCS in the past 18 months.

[Old School Chic]

Vashner is a dumb fuck.

Maybe he's related to the councilwoman. :lol

[Despot]

Ken Wolf, who was vice president of Metropolitan Resources Inc., a Zachry subsidiary, resigned after he sent an e-mail through a company computer in May saying the SBC Center, now AT&T Center, was built "in the ghetto" because of a lack of leadership in city government.

It was the second time in eight months that a Zachry employee has embarrassed the company by sending an e-mail containing disparaging remarks about various parts of the city.

"When I read it I thought, 'Another e-mail from Zachry. What is going on?'" Guajardo said Wednesday.

This whole thing got out of hand because of the fact that someone before him had emailed from that same company basically calling the powers that be idiots, and she overreacted to this new email. What does it matter if it is another email from Zachry? It's a different person and situation.


Dickerson wrote that the club attracts "undesirable, low class elements from bad parts of the city into our upper class part of the city for which we pay a very large tax burden in which to live to be safe and away from such elements."


Those patrons, he went on, come from the "lower class bad parts of the city" and that the club should be forced to relocate to one of those areas, "thereby containing all of these very serious problems within the areas in which these types of criminal debaucheric behavior occur on a regular basis."

The only mistake this guy made, other than emailing from work, was by saying that only people from bad parts of the city frequent that club, thinking his neighbors are not the type that would frequent that club. That is hardly racist, maybe borderline immoral, but mostly it is stupidity.


He also wrote that the entertainment at the club "is of a lude, lascivious, low class, debaucheristic, criminalistic, riot insistic, anarchistic nature. Thereby inciting the absolute worst behavior from the worst possible type of patron."

Even though it states it, the article also makes it sound like he is describing the people with that line. he is descibing the entertainment, to me, thats a big difference. Yes it is possible for someone to be a good person, and want to release stress by going clubbing and getting wild. Is she trying to deny that the club experience is not wild, Hell, that sounded like a good party to me. However, take your mom to a club like that someday and see what she thinks. And isn't this the type of behavior the city was trying to derail with strip clubs? I saw city officials back then making remarks about the type of people that frequent strip clubs, so...... it's ok for the city to say this kind of stuff about certain citizens, but a citizen raises concerns in an email and he is hammered for complaining about the people that attend a club?

Do you all think that Cityworkers do not get hate-mail, or people sending emails complaining about their hispanic, black or redneck neighbors? And I assure you these two are not the first to send those e-mail from work. There has to be some kind of personal or business relationship that company has with the city, She even clears the owners of any blame for the e-mail in the qoute below.



"The bottom line is it's not the Zachrys, but that's what concerns me: It came from their company," said Guajardo

I just don't get this line, she is witholding blame and blaming the company in the same sentence. Yes he should not have sent the email from work, but does that make his rights invalid. Why does it concern her that it came from the company? It is not important to her where the email came from, she should have just done her job. Would you like for Kori to call your bosses telling them you are logging on here from work? And in no way does he say that this is the opinion of the company. Her contention is that the email came from the company so it is tied to them, however the owners are cleared even they they OWN the company? That is about as tied to the company as you can get. I'm pretty sure that if this guy had not offed himself, and another Zachry employee emailed something like this from home, he probably would not be with the company too much longer.

Now don't make me use the Wookie defense.

Ok you can close this thread now.
~Drops the Mic~

[Despot]

If you move into an Apartment with an established club next door that's your choice.

The guy used some harsh words. I grew up poor in this city and I take offense to some jackass trying to move a club because everyone there is low class.

Obviously it was a racial / class insult. This lady did the right thing. Don't let some idiot insult your people.

One needs to treat the rich and poor of San Antonio with some respect. I have no pity for a guy that wanted to shit on some "lower class" people.


Good Luck on getting GCS moved nextdoor to Tim's house, and welcome to reality.

[CharlieMac]

If you move into an Apartment with an established club next door that's your choice.

The guy used some harsh words. I grew up poor in this city and I take offense to some jackass trying to move a club because everyone there is low class.

Obviously it was a racial / class insult. This lady did the right thing. Don't let some idiot insult your people.

One needs to treat the rich and poor of San Antonio with some respect. I have no pity for a guy that wanted to shit on some "lower class" people.

What are you, the only one that grew up poor in this city? I made the choice to move up and off of MLK and Pecan Valley for a reason. I moved to a much better neighborhood, much like this man did. I don't exactly live in the best neighborhood in town, but it's a lot better. If they open up a shithole like Graham's a block from me that has a history of serving drunks and minors, I'm gonna be pissed too. I'm going to write my local coucilman, the only difference is that I'm hispanic, so chances are they won't be able to play the race card with me so that they can play hero and get on the news.

I used to think you were one of the few posters here that made sense. Have you even been to Graham's lately? You know, it's not just a problem with Grahams if you look at the number of drunk drivers arrested in this city.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

What are you, the only one that grew up poor in this city? I made the choice to move up and off of MLK and Pecan Valley for a reason. I moved to a much better neighborhood, much like this man did. I don't exactly live in the best neighborhood in town, but it's a lot better. If they open up a shithole like Graham's a block from me that has a history of serving drunks and minors, I'm gonna be pissed too. I'm going to write my local coucilman, the only difference is that I'm hispanic, so chances are they won't be able to play the race card with me so that they can play hero and get on the news.

I used to think you were one of the few posters here that made sense. Have you even been to Graham's lately? You know, it's not just a problem with Grahams if you look at the number of drunk drivers arrested in this city.

I doubt he's been to GCS...it's too close to Dave & Buster's and we all remember how much he compained that he was duped there.

Maybe since Vashner grew up poor, he can write his councilperson and complain about that without fear of getting fired from work.

[ElMuerto]

The man took his own life nobody else put a gun to his head.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm hispanic, grew up poor, worked in the migrant fields and I too have worked my way up and am still working by going to school but I too feel offended when somebody says "lower class" and crap like that.

I disagree with Vashner in the political forum but he has his own opinion and has every right to express it. There are many "low class" people living in "upper class" neighborhoods. I don't live in what is called "upper class" neighborhood but my neighbors are all what I call good people and I'll take an honest good person over someone who "acts" like it.

Maybe I myself and getting tired of being PC all the time who knows.

[JoeChalupa]

Am I turning into an a-hole? Should I have posted under a troll name? Not that I have any. :oops Nah, I know all of us have opinions that we may be shy to express for fear of what others may think but I feel comfortable enough around here that I'm not going to agree with everyone and I know damn sure not everyone is going to agree with me.

I may be an a-hole in here from time to time but I'm okay in person....at least I think I am.

[CharlieMac]

Am I turning into an a-hole? Should I have posted under a troll name? Not that I have any. :oops Nah, I know all of us have opinions that we may be shy to express for fear of what others may think but I feel comfortable enough around here that I'm not going to agree with everyone and I know damn sure not everyone is going to agree with me.

I may be an a-hole in here from time to time but I'm okay in person....at least I think I am.


Where did this come from? I missed where someone called you an asshole, unless it was in the Political Forum. I don't go in there much anymore.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm hispanic, grew up poor, worked in the migrant fields and I too have worked my way up and am still working by going to school but I too feel offended when somebody says "lower class" and crap like that.

I disagree with Vashner in the political forum but he has his own opinion and has every right to express it. There are many "low class" people living in "upper class" neighborhoods. I don't live in what is called "upper class" neighborhood but my neighbors are all what I call good people and I'll take an honest good person over someone who "acts" like it.

Maybe I myself and getting tired of being PC all the time who knows.

Joe, I hate to say it, but that's on you if you're offended by that. Deep down, I bet you know that you're just trying to be the best dad and husband you can. That's not lower-class.

You said it yourself. You're a good, hard-working person who's raising a family. From your posts, you're a good dad and husband who's just trying to live life the best way you can and be a good citizen. You served this country in the armed forces and we all thank you for that.

You're right, Vashner has a right to his opinions, just as Buddy Holly has the right to call him a dumb fuck. In their minds, they're both right. Guess what, Vashner has a right to believe what he believes, but I also have the same right to tell him that I think he's a hypocrite and I could probably find somewhere in this forum where he's laid down that double standard.

AFAIK, you and your wife aren't the ones getting sloppy drunk off your asses, attempting to drive and killing others in the process outside a nightclub.

You said it yourself, you'd take an honest, good person than someone who acts like it. It sounds to me like George Dickerson was a man who simply wanted some safety and security where he lived. Something tells me that there might be some responsible safe places in your neighborhood that you wouldn't mind going to wirh your wife or your kids going there when they are of age.

Something also tells me that there are some places you might not go or let your kids go to because the conditions aren't safe and the people that frequent it aren't thinking of being responsible enough to prepare for their actions.

What in the world gives people the right to act the fool and fuck up somebody else's life? And you know what, it sucks in the sense that I'm sure there are normal, everyday people who want to go party, have some fun, blow off some steam, get flirty while dancing, pick up another person, have a few drinks, etc. who are going to get screwed from doing it at GCS because some bartender who got his job after watching the commercials during re-runs of "Judge Joe Brown" decided to serve some minors or people that were obviously too drunk in the first place.

If more people (like I'm sure a number of GCS and other places are) were responsible for their action and not act the fools, George Dickerson might not be upset with having a club in his neighborhood.

George Dickerson might not have had to send an e-mail, lose his job and for reasons that nobody will ever know, might not have taken his life.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

To continue expanding on what JC said, he said that there were a number of "lower-class" people living in "upper-class" neighborhoods.

More than likely, those "lower-class" people probably got their by working hard to get there (sure, there are some who didn't, but I'd venture to guess the majority of them did).

I don't believe those are the people George Dickerson was complaining about. I also bet that if I really look at the records of people fucking up at GCS and causing the incidents that sent Dickerson to his computer, I'd find some of them to be white.

This is what this incident has boiled down to, right. People think Dickerson is being a racist because of what he said. Guess what, though, white people act the fool, too.

Did Dickerson know every single person in every single person whose incident he referenced in his e-mail? I'm guessing not. Sure, the last major accident was caused by a Hispanic guy (based on his name and his usage of both Spanish and English on the scene according to the EN), but I'm guesing that Dickerson didn't really care who was causing it as long as they were causing it out of his neighborhood.

I don't give a damn who's causing the property damage on the edge of the NW Crossing subdivision, I just know that it makes me angry as hell that the increase in property crime (and eventual progression to harsher crime) is making my mom nervous to live in what she considers her dream home. A home that she never thought she'd have until we found a way to make it a reality. And now she's thinking of moving?

We as a citizenry are being forced to keep quiet for fear that we'll be labled something we're not. Does my mom not have to worry about making her complaints heard because she's Hispanic? Maybe so, but why should her two white neighbors (one across the street and one next door) fear for doing the same complaining she would make?

[kris]

Where in that letter does George Dickerson make a racist comment?

[JoeChalupa]

Joe, I hate to say it, but that's on you if you're offended by that. Deep down, I bet you know that you're just trying to be the best dad and husband you can. That's not lower-class.

You said it yourself. You're a good, hard-working person who's raising a family. From your posts, you're a good dad and husband who's just trying to live life the best way you can and be a good citizen. You served this country in the armed forces and we all thank you for that.

You're right, Vashner has a right to his opinions, just as Buddy Holly has the right to call him a dumb fuck. In their minds, they're both right. Guess what, Vashner has a right to believe what he believes, but I also have the same right to tell him that I think he's a hypocrite and I could probably find somewhere in this forum where he's laid down that double standard.

AFAIK, you and your wife aren't the ones getting sloppy drunk off your asses, attempting to drive and killing others in the process outside a nightclub.

You said it yourself, you'd take an honest, good person than someone who acts like it. It sounds to me like George Dickerson was a man who simply wanted some safety and security where he lived. Something tells me that there might be some responsible safe places in your neighborhood that you wouldn't mind going to wirh your wife or your kids going there when they are of age.

Something also tells me that there are some places you might not go or let your kids go to because the conditions aren't safe and the people that frequent it aren't thinking of being responsible enough to prepare for their actions.

What in the world gives people the right to act the fool and fuck up somebody else's life? And you know what, it sucks in the sense that I'm sure there are normal, everyday people who want to go party, have some fun, blow off some steam, get flirty while dancing, pick up another person, have a few drinks, etc. who are going to get screwed from doing it at GCS because some bartender who got his job after watching the commercials during re-runs of "Judge Joe Brown" decided to serve some minors or people that were obviously too drunk in the first place.

If more people (like I'm sure a number of GCS and other places are) were responsible for their action and not act the fools, George Dickerson might not be upset with having a club in his neighborhood.

George Dickerson might not have had to send an e-mail, lose his job and for reasons that nobody will ever know, might not have taken his life.

Thanks. I admit I get defensive when it comes to others classifying people but I do the same thing. When I first met my wife she lived on the East Side in what I admit is a part of town that I did not want to raise our family and I told her that I would not live there not so much because of the people but of the criminal element. I guess I just flip-flopped which I have a tendency to do.
Her mom didn't want us to move because she wanted us to be close but I said no way I was going go live there so I moved to a better part of town and I wanted out of SA city limits so we moved to Converse and I'm very glad we did.
Yeah, there are parts of town I don't like to go but not necessarily due to the criminal element. We've yet to even see La Cantera Shops and have no desire to simply because it is just not us.
I would hope that we all want our family to be safe and secure and he did have legit reasons for his complaints.
It is just my nature I guess since I am so proud of my heritage and I know many good people who live in "lower class" areas perhaps I take it the wrong way when I feel someone is looking down on them.

All of your points are very well taken. Thanks man.

http://www.georgehartz.com/images/handshake.jpg

[JoeChalupa]

To continue expanding on what JC said, he said that there were a number of "lower-class" people living in "upper-class" neighborhoods.

More than likely, those "lower-class" people probably got their by working hard to get there (sure, there are some who didn't, but I'd venture to guess the majority of them did).


What I meant by "lower class" is people like Ken Lay who are scum even though they live in "upper class" neighborhoods.

[ObiwanGinobili]

to me lower class does not mean poor & upper class does not mean money.

nowadays there are plenty of lowclass rich people and plenty of classy poor people.

I said it before earlier in this thread but I'll say it again:

anyone whose going out getting drunk, driving a car, getting rowdy with folks they hardly know , all out in public , hollaring nad throwing beer bottles, starting fights.... in the wee hours of the morning = low class. regardless of annual income or residancy.

[JoeChalupa]

Where did this come from? I missed where someone called you an asshole, unless it was in the Political Forum. I don't go in there much anymore.

No, I was calling myself an a-hole because I know I can be one.

[JoeChalupa]

And the Political forum rocks!

[blaze89]

Reading the email, I really didn't see any problems until the last couple of paragraphs - those statements definitely would have caused some sort of an uproar. Also, after another Zachry employee used their email account to describing the SBC Center was built in a ghetto (parapharsing), you know Zachry probably had some sort of rule or policy regarding these types of emails. You think the guy would have known better to send something like that, which unfortunately he realized that too late cause just eight-nine minutes later he wanted the message to be confidential or he was gonna sue.

Thinking about it, perhaps it wasn't the fact he wrote "low-class" etc., but the fact he was going to sue if the letter became public. Apparently he didn't know that any correspondence sent to City Hall is public record.

Should she have gone to his superior? I don't think so - he wasn't a spokesperson for the company. However, the guy should have known better. There was a rule the company had in place, there was a previous incident and you have a company who wants to distance themselves from sort of thing.

It's a shame this ended in this way, it didn't have to.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Reading the email, I really didn't see any problems until the last couple of paragraphs - those statements definitely would have caused some sort of an uproar. Also, after another Zachry employee used their email account to describing the SBC Center was built in a ghetto (parapharsing), you know Zachry probably had some sort of rule or policy regarding these types of emails. You think the guy would have known better to send something like that, which unfortunately he realized that too late cause just eight-nine minutes later he wanted the message to be confidential or he was gonna sue.

Thinking about it, perhaps it wasn't the fact he wrote "low-class" etc., but the fact he was going to sue if the letter became public. Apparently he didn't know that any correspondence sent to City Hall is public record.

Should she have gone to his superior? I don't think so - he wasn't a spokesperson for the company. However, the guy should have known better. There was a rule the company had in place, there was a previous incident and you have a company who wants to distance themselves from sort of thing.

It's a shame this ended in this way, it didn't have to.

I don't think many people are debating that he indeed broke company policy and should suffer some consequences for it.

I think what people are saying is why did the esteemed councilwoman have to begin the engagement.

[Nbadan]

I think those easily casting blame for this incident can just as easily blame the Express-News for publicizing this case in the first place, which should have been kept as a internal company matter. When you e-mail someone from a business e-mail address I don't think it's an unfair assumption that they are representing the company. Fair or not that's the way it is and the company has every right to know what is in the e-mail and take what-ever action they feel is necessary to make this policy clear to their employees.

As far as those of you wondering why the council-women didn't follow up on the complaint of her constituent, well, how do we know she won't have after the Zachry matter was resolved? Clearly, there were two issues here. E-mail abuse and the actual complaint.

Everyone is acting like they are related to this guy, blaming everyone else except with whom the real blame lies - himself. He put the bullets in the gun, he put the gun against his head, and he pulled the trigger. He could have fought these accusations, or at the very least, publicly corrected any misunderstanding of racial overtones. He could have sat on his ass and come in here and plead his case, but for what-ever reason he chose not to do any of that, and that's the real shame.

[Buddy Holly]

planning to attend the grand opening of the PGA village,

You do know the PGA Tour Resort is going to be built, right?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I think those easily casting blame for this incident can just as easily blame the Express-News for publicizing this case in the first place, which should have been kept as a internal company matter. When you e-mail someone from a business e-mail address I don't think it's an unfair assumption that they are representing the company. Fair or not that's the way it is and the company has every right to know what is in the e-mail and take what-ever action they feel is necessary to make this policy clear to their employees.

As far as those of you wondering why the council-women didn't follow up on the complaint of her constituent, well, how do we know she won't have after the Zachry matter was resolved? Clearly, there were two issues here. E-mail abuse and the actual complaint.

Everyone is acting like they are related to this guy, blaming everyone else except with whom the real blame lies - himself. He put the bullets in the gun, he put the gun against his head, and he pulled the trigger. He could have fought these accusations, or at the very least, publicly corrected any misunderstanding of racial overtones. He could have sat on his ass and come in here and plead his case, but for what-ever reason he chose not to do any of that, and that's the real shame.

I don't think anybody has said he wasn't to blame and nobody is claiming that suicide was his best (or only) option. I think what most of us are thinking is...

1. Is it the councilwoman's job to report company e-mail abuse? And I'm guessing that's what made this newsworthy. That and the fact that it was the second time in a year a person was fired from that company for "e-mail abuse" (and that other little thing of making comments that might put the company - a city contractor - in the line of fire).

2. I'm taking exception to his being labled a racist when I don't believe there were racial overtones in that e-mail. As I made the point earlier, why should it be any different if my Hispanic mother sent that same e-mail versus two of our white neighbors for similar situations?

[Trainwreck2100]

You do know the PGA Tour Resort is going to be built, right?

Yeah, but from what I understood it was smaller than originally planned, not whole wise but develomentally

[kris]

I don't think anybody has said he wasn't to blame and nobody is claiming that suicide was his best (or only) option. I think what most of us are thinking is...

1. Is it the councilwoman's job to report company e-mail abuse? And I'm guessing that's what made this newsworthy. That and the fact that it was the second time in a year a person was fired from that company for "e-mail abuse" (and that other little thing of making comments that might put the company - a city contractor - in the line of fire).

2. I'm taking exception to his being labled a racist when I don't believe there were racial overtones in that e-mail. As I made the point earlier, why should it be any different if my Hispanic mother sent that same e-mail versus two of our white neighbors for similar situations?

Man Johnny Blaze, I'm reluctant to say it because you will probably go off course after this, but you and I are thinking exactly alike. Since you've covered so much, I just want to add a couple of candid thoughts.

- I would like to see this city councilperson resign solely on how this person (her) handled the situation. I've watched all of the WOAI interviews and her responses have been poor. She was asked if she would do anything different and she stuttered for about 3 seconds before avoiding the question. She just wanted to focus on praying for the family was the response. What does that even mean? So right now all she's doing is constantly praying for the family. No, that was her attempting to have a politically correct answer that cast her in the best light possible. It didn't. The right answer was "Yes, whether I was just or wrong, I would not want anyone to lose their life."

- I don't like the idea of having a gay or transgendered or whatever acronym they are councilperson in San Antonio. Did everyone know this when she was elected? Did she run solo? Their personal views do not accurately reflect the views of the population they represent and ultimately it creates an internal struggle in their mind.

I'm not sure if her being a lesbian booster played a role in how she acted here, but the way she bypassed her duties was repugnant. As an elected public official, all of her public acts should be subject to the utmost public scrutiny and therefore I do not admonish, but praise the media's constant pressure of this councilperson.

The crux of this unfortunate scenario is a city councilperson received a legitimate email and rather than addressing it, reported it to the hosting company of the email. The facts strongly elicit that she perceived George Dickerson would be sanctioned. That is adding to the problem, not the solution, councilperson.

Councilperson calls upon racism for justification, but the fact of the matter is the letter never mentioned any race or ethnicity and was focused on eradicating his neighborhood of roudy night club goers and their effects. Dickerson referred to them as low class, not because of who they were, but what they did.

I know one person who I'd like to see resign. I'm sure she could secure a position at the Saint, where these types of shenanigans fly.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Man Johnny Blaze, I'm reluctant to say it because you will probably go off course after this, but you and I are thinking exactly alike. Since you've covered so much, I just want to add a couple of candid thoughts.


Hehe...Thanks...at least these dicsussions are civil and I hope I can become alike with you in poker.

But here goes.



- I would like to see this city councilperson resign solely on how this person (her) handled the situation. I've watched all of the WOAI interviews and her responses have been poor. She was asked if she would do anything different and she stuttered for about 3 seconds before avoiding the question. She just wanted to focus on praying for the family was the response. What does that even mean? So right now all she's doing is constantly praying for the family. No, that was her attempting to have a politically correct answer that cast her in the best light possible. It didn't. The right answer was "Yes, whether I was just or wrong, I would not want anyone to lose their life."

- I don't like the idea of having a gay or transgendered or whatever acronym they are councilperson in San Antonio. Did everyone know this when she was elected? Did she run solo? Their personal views do not accurately reflect the views of the population they represent and ultimately it creates an internal struggle in their mind.

I'm not sure if her being a lesbian booster played a role in how she acted here, but the way she bypassed her duties was repugnant. As an elected public official, all of her public acts should be subject to the utmost public scrutiny and therefore I do not admonish, but praise the media's constant pressure of this councilperson.

The crux of this unfortunate scenario is a city councilperson received a legitimate email and rather than addressing it, reported it to the hosting company of the email. The facts strongly elicit that she perceived George Dickerson would be sanctioned. That is adding to the problem, not the solution, councilperson.

Councilperson calls upon racism for justification, but the fact of the matter is the letter never mentioned any race or ethnicity and was focused on eradicating his neighborhood of roudy night club goers and their effects. Dickerson referred to them as low class, not because of who they were, but what they did.

I know one person who I'd like to see resign. I'm sure she could secure a position at the Saint, where these types of shenanigans fly.

I would argue that the city is better served with a GLBT voice on the Council. I don't have numbers, but I would believe that the GLBT population is roughly ten percent of the city's population (which would be served by ten percent of the Council).

Also, she is and was openly lesbian during her campaign. She won a majority of the votes in her general election (out of eight candidates) and obviously in the runoff.

So yeah, I agree with most of what you said - save for the GLBT community's representation and her thoughts accuratly reflecting that community. While it might not necessarily reflect District 7, I don't think there's a "gay" district in San Antonio where she might "better reflect that community."

As far as everything else goes, yeah, she fucked up.

[kris]

You make a good point about the percentage representation. I didn't consider that.

Also, I didn't know she ran openly lesbian and opposed by so many. I'm impressed she won. I'll disagree with you on whether a BLT gangster is better for the city, but that's just personal opinion.

PS You might want to rethink being like me in poker, I think I'm in the hole for about $100, maybe more

[Peter]

It's clear that she handled this situation unprofessionally. If she thought the man was making racist comments, why not tell the man that, or better yet, ignore him?

As for her being a lesbian, I don't think that matters too much. Maybe that makes her more "sensitive" to discrimination/racism, I don't know.

She just plain fucked up. Telling his employer on him is done only if you expect that to cause some harm to him. The man's email detailed why he had a problem with that club. He did express his views with some coloful language, but it was not racial in nature. Hopefully she pays for her unprofessional conduct in some manner.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

It's clear that she handled this situation unprofessionally. If she thought the man was making racist comments, why not tell the man that, or better yet, ignore him?

As for her being a lesbian, I don't think that matters too much. Maybe that makes her more "sensitive" to discrimination/racism, I don't know.

She just plain fucked up. Telling his employer on him is done only if you expect that to cause some harm to him. The man's email detailed why he had a problem with that club. He did express his views with some coloful language, but it was not racial in nature. Hopefully she pays for her unprofessional conduct in some manner.

If she's not "forced" to resign by her actions, I guarantee the next 15 months of her time on the City Council will be her last.

[Nbadan]

I'm not sure if her being a lesbian booster played a role in how she acted here, but the way she bypassed her duties was repugnant. As an elected public official, all of her public acts should be subject to the utmost public scrutiny and therefore I do not admonish, but praise the media's constant pressure of this councilperson.

I'm just not sure what you mean by 'by-passing her duties'. Clearly there was a set policy by Zachry concerning the use of their company e-mail servers and the council-woman reported this abuse. Fair enough. Was the E-mail Mr. Dickerson sent racially bias? Well, perhaps the best judge of that is the company itself, and based on their reaction, my guess is they probably thought it was. Doesn't matter what you and I think.

[Peter]

I'm just not sure what you mean by 'by-passing her duties'. Clearly there was a set policy by Zachry concerning the use of their company e-mail servers and the council-woman reported this abuse. Fair enough. Was the E-mail Mr. Dickerson sent racially bias? Well, perhaps the best judge of that is the company itself, and based on their reaction, my guess is they probably thought it was. Doesn't matter what you and I think.


Her job is to respond to constitutents' views and complaints, not tattle-tale on them.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm just not sure what you mean by 'by-passing her duties'. Clearly there was a set policy by Zachry concerning the use of their company e-mail servers and the council-woman reported this abuse. Fair enough. Was the E-mail Mr. Dickerson sent racially bias? Well, perhaps the best judge of that is the company itself, and based on their reaction, my guess is they probably thought it was. Doesn't matter what you and I think.

I didn't realize that councilpersons were charged with enforcing private businesses internal policies.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Doesn't matter what you and I think.

If we all lived by that, the Spurs, NBA, NFL, MLB, College Sports and Political forums would all be pretty desolate.

[Trainwreck2100]

If she's not "forced" to resign by her actions, I guarantee the next 15 months of her time on the City Council will be her last.

That would be an easy debate for the other guy
Question:"Sir How do you feel about the new transit authority and how will it affect your district."
Opponent: "Did you know that the councilwoman made a guy kill himself"
Question: "Okay? Uh How do you feel the school system will upgrade in the next year"
Opponent "Repeat, Guy.....Kill.....Himself"

[Trainwreck2100]

I didn't realize that councilpersons were charged with enforcing private businesses internal policies.

Is the company in her district? That could be a type of reason. If not than what did she have to do with them.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Dan, I think you fail to realize that many of us - while we may disagree with Zachry's actions - don't fault them for running their business the way they choose.

Sure, is their policy hypocritical in that other people aren't reprimanded? Yes.

The E-N pointed out that they have seen e-mails from Zachry servers asking about eateries, golf courses and much more - which many, if not all of us, tend to do from whatever e-mail address we have open. But again, if they choose to enforce their policies, that's their right.

I'm actually kind of shocked that you of all people are absolving a member of the government and allowing them to enforce private business policies.

This wasn't child porn or a crime being committed, which she would have been under obligation to report it to law enforcement authorities. This was a complaint about something in both the e-mailer and councilwoman's district.

This was a district complaint to somebody who could have done something about it, and she went and played Zachry HR Employee of the Month.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Is the company in her district? That could be a type of reason. If not than what did she have to do with them.

Good question.

Answer: Nope.

http://www.zachry.com/maps/mini-map.gif

A map of their home office...very far from District 7.

The southern-most point of District 7 is Commerce St.

[kris]

I'm just not sure what you mean by 'by-passing her duties'. Clearly there was a set policy by Zachry concerning the use of their company e-mail servers and the council-woman reported this abuse. Fair enough. Was the E-mail Mr. Dickerson sent racially bias? Well, perhaps the best judge of that is the company itself, and based on their reaction, my guess is they probably thought it was. Doesn't matter what you and I think.

Well one of her duties is to respond to people like George Dickerson. Instead of doing something to address his concerns, she told on him. Hence, bypassed him.

How is the company the best judge of Dickerson's racial bias? Basing whether or not he was racist on the companies firing of him is flawed at best. There are a plethora of other policies or factors that could have led to his firing.

Also, on a punctual note, if you quote someone, you have to use their exact words. What you did is paraphrase.

[Nbadan]

I didn't realize that councilpersons were charged with enforcing private businesses internal policies.

They are if the company choses for it to be. Especially concerning the topic involved. This would have been better coming from a personal e-mail service, in which case, Mr. Dickerson would still be employed and you and I would be chatting about the superbowl.

[Nbadan]

If we all lived by that, the Spurs, NBA, NFL, MLB, College Sports and Political forums would all be pretty desolate.

No, I mean that you and I may have our opinions, but Zachry apparently felt that the email was, at least in some form, offensive.

[Nbadan]

I'm actually kind of shocked that you of all people are absolving a member of the government and allowing them to enforce private business policies.

I'm not defending the government, nor the council-woman, all I'm saying is that this was a set of complex circumstances in which, for better or worse, everyone involved may have thought they were doing the right thing (except the person who leaked this to the press). No one could have predicted the way Mr. Dickerson would have reacted to being terminated.

[Peter]

Well, I think you could predict that if a councilwoman complained about an employee as she did that he would be in deep shit. The man did nothing to warrant her reaction.

[maxpower]

did he email his suicide note?