A must read

[Yonivore]

La Shawn Barber (http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/02/02/intelligence/trackback/)

[JoePublic]

No it is not.

[Yonivore]

Apparently

[Nbadan]

This is the first of three posts I plan to write on this subject. In the second post I’ll discuss recent and relevant research on race differences in intelligence. I’ll post links to studies that conclude such differences exist and are inheritable and studies that attempt to prove differences are not inheritable. I’ll say at the outset, based on the literature, most researches pretty much agree that differences exist. The emphasis is on whether general intelligence can be improved and whether tests measuring cognitive ability are even relevant or necessary.

Ouch! Exactly what are you promoting here Yoni?

[Peter]

The Bell Curve (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0029146739/sr=1-1/qid=1138990776/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9313651-5460040?%5Fencoding=UTF8) deja vu.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Blogger's Bio


First and foremost, I’m a believer in and follower of Jesus Christ.

I am a former liberal and current renegade supporter of conservative ideals. I am an Independent conservative, not a member of the Republican or Democratic parties.

If you must refer to my race, call me black, not “African American.” It is offensive to me. There is no such color, race, or nationality. I am an American of African descent.

I have degrees in English and law.

well I'm convinced on her views now.

[Yonivore]

Blogger's Bio

well I'm convinced on her views now.
So, you can speak to the points in her blog then? Exactly what does her bio have to do with the points raised?

[Nbadan]

What a bunch of garbage. This reeks of ethnic superiority.

[Oh, Gee!!]

What a bunch of garbage. This reeks of ethnic superiority.


but the blogger is Black, so it must be true.

[Peter]

What a bunch of garbage. This reeks of ethnic superiority.

Does raising the issue necessarily make the motive ignoble? To me, it doesn't unless you get past the nature v. nuture discussion and claim that one group is genetically inferior to the other(s). Isn't a basic grievance in American politics that non-white racial groups have been subjected to a legacy of discrimination in education, something which continues to this day to negatively impact those groups? Hasn't there been a move against standardized tests on this basis because they are deemed to be unfair to members of those groups?

The mere fact that one group scores significantly less well on an exam(s) in and of itself is not a pretext to claims about racial and ethnic superiority. The question would seem to be: what to do in order to end the difference?

[Yonivore]

but the blogger is Black, so it must be true.
If you'd read the blog, the author doesn't claim to be an authority on the subject just that she feels it is a valid topic for discussion -- without being viewed as a racist.

[Yonivore]

Does raising the issue necessarily make the motive ignoble? To me, it doesn't unless you get past the nature v. nuture discussion and claim that one group is genetically inferior to the other(s). Isn't a basic grievance in American politics that non-white racial groups have been subjected to a legacy of discrimination in education, something which continues to this day to negatively impact those groups? Hasn't there been a move against standardized tests on this basis because they are deemed to be unfair to members of those groups?

The mere fact that one group scores significantly less well on an exam(s) in and of itself is not a pretext to claims about racial and ethnic superiority. The question would seem to be: what to do in order to end the difference?
That's a fair summary of Ms. Barber's position.

[Nbadan]

The mere fact that one group scores significantly less well on an exam(s) in and of itself is not a pretext to claims about racial and ethnic superiority. The question would seem to be: what to do in order to end the difference?

You gear education toward the 21 century instead of the 20th. I am completely for a tiered-level approach to teacher compensation. For instance, high school Math and Science teachers should be making much more than first-grade teachers, or elementary and grade school teachers, with equal experience. Not because these teachers don't deserve their pay, but because people good in Science and Math are in such high demand by employers and that makes these teachers worth more to keep around.

[JoeChalupa]

I disagree. I believe the teachers of the early grades are crucial in establishing good study and work habits.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The question would seem to be: what to do in order to end the difference?

affirmative action

[Nbadan]

I disagree. I believe the teachers of the early grades are crucial in establishing good study and work habits.

Oh, I think they're important to Joe, but at some point we have to let market demand set the appropriate wage level, otherwise, we wind up 'loosing' to many good teachers and we have, as Peter claims, a 'education monopoly'.

[JoeChalupa]

Market demand? I'm no economic whiz so I don't get how market demand...oh, do you mean if the demand for quality teachers is high and the amount of qualified teachers is low then their pay should be raised?

I just ate lunch so my brain is on siesta mode.

[Nbadan]

Market demand? I'm no economic whiz so I don't get how market demand...oh, do you mean if the demand for quality teachers is high and the amount of qualified teachers is low then their pay should be raised?

I just ate lunch so my brain is on siesta mode.

In Texas, teachers are still in demand in almost every grade level, but especially High School Science and Math teachers. Economically, teachers are tied to whatever the local school districts, and thus it's voters, pay, but Science and Math are in high demad by other segments of our economy too, so these candidates have dubious choices. Work for a school district starting at first year teacher pay or work for a private company and probably make 1.5 times more to start.

[JoeChalupa]

In Texas, teachers are still in demand in almost every grade level, but especially High School Science and Math teachers. Economically, teachers are tied to whatever the local school districts, and thus it's voters, pay, but Science and Math are in high demad by other segments of our economy too, so these candidates have dubious choices. Work for a school district starting at first year teacher pay or work for a private company and probably make 1.5 times more to start.

I see..so it's all about the benjamins and I can't blame a teacher for going with the big bucks.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Teacher says what you wanna do? Sell drugs or get a degree?
Looked at him and smiled with 32 gold teeth
And said what you make in a year, I make it in a week

[Phenomanul]

Market demand? I'm no economic whiz so I don't get how market demand...oh, do you mean if the demand for quality teachers is high and the amount of qualified teachers is low then their pay should be raised?

I just ate lunch so my brain is on siesta mode.

I guess he means people like myself.... I would love to teach but, then I face reality and realize that I would have a hard time making ends meet on those salaries... Instead I am pushed toward career fields that have higher compensation/hr of work rates. If H.S. science and math teacher salaries were higher (even if they were slightly lower than my current wages) I would enjoy being a teacher.

It is apalling to think that some coaches in districts that have excellent sports programs make more money than the teachers themselves. Just shows where school managements have placed their priorities...

[JoeChalupa]

I guess he means people like myself.... I would love to teach but, then I face reality and realize that I would have a hard time making ends meet on those salaries... Instead I am pushed toward career fields that have higher compensation/hr of work rates. If H.S. science and math teacher salaries were higher (even if they were slightly lower than my current wages) I would enjoy being a teacher.

It is apalling to think that some coaches in districts that have excellent sports programs make more money than the teachers themselves. Just shows where school managements have placed their priorities...

I guess it is a matter of lifestyle.
I'm not ashamed that I don't make what teachers make and I'm making ends meet just fine. Go figure.

[101A]

In Texas, teachers are still in demand in almost every grade level, but especially High School Science and Math teachers. Economically, teachers are tied to whatever the local school districts, and thus it's voters, pay, but Science and Math are in high demad by other segments of our economy too, so these candidates have dubious choices. Work for a school district starting at first year teacher pay or work for a private company and probably make 1.5 times more to start.


There not THAT hard up for teachers....my wife is a PROFESSOR of Biochemstry (2 B.S.'s (Chem & Bio) PLUS a Ph.D. in Biochem.) - has done the whole research thing and taught 4 years at the University level....SHE CAN'T TEACH HIGH SCHOOL IN TEXAS!

Must go take 2 full years of B.S. education classes (and not the silly undergrad ones 99% of our teachers have taken - she has to take graduate level education courses since she already has her degree).

NEA certainly doesn't want competition from people who REALLY know their shit - so they make damn sure those stupid requirements exist to protect their cushy jobs. (48K for 9 months work, with Christmas, Fall Break, Spring Break, Thanksgiving, etc off IS cushy work).

Public education in this country is a monopolistic joke - the education gap is going to be even more ridiculous as those of us who can afford to put OUR children in real schools, while the masses are still dumbed down (and down, and down) in the cess pool that is our school system.

My children have done both, and there is NO comparison - in public school they are being "taught" by 2.0 holding education majors, in private school, Ph.D's & Masters in actual subjects abound!

My kids now intellectually SMOKE their peers stuck in the public nightmare.

[Nbadan]

Must go take 2 full years of B.S. education classes (and not the silly undergrad ones 99% of our teachers have taken - she has to take graduate level education courses since she already has her degree).

Not in Texas. Being highly qualified, she is eligible for alternative certification and can teach at a disadvantaged district for one year and get certified by the State, then challenge the curriculum EXCET exam in her subject area, and teach at whatever/wherever she wants.

[101A]

A disadvantaged district was an hour long commute.

NISD, NEISD pretty much not interested in alternative certification AT ALL.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok wait. I haven't read most of this thread, but if the gist of what I'm getting is correct, then it points out just how stupid Yonivore actually is.

Countless times, I've argued that there needs to be something done to correct the wrongs of slavery on African Americans. I believe that at as a whole race, they will score lower on intelligence tests. Thats not to say you're not going to have your brilliant African Americans but to say they occour at a less frequent rate due to many factors not the least of which was selective breeding and the elimination of slaves who displayed intelligence.

This isn't about racial superiority, this is about applying selective breeding principles to the way slaves were treated.

And of course, many people like Yonivore argue against that because in America people are on a (supposed) equal footing. Now he comes and posts an article that says they are not?

Ok, What the fuck?

[Phenomanul]

I guess it is a matter of lifestyle.
I'm not ashamed that I don't make what teachers make and I'm making ends meet just fine. Go figure.


Neither of my parents has medical insurance and (in my dad's case has been turndowned for BS reasons)...

Anyways... footing unexpected medical bills quickly becomes a financial burden. I wouldn't consider myself to be "living it up" even with my salary... though in the end I would agree that it's all relative.