If were not worried about Dallas we should be

[dbreiden83080]

These guys are playing like gangbusters right now, 13 in a row hand Miami their asses tonight. It is hard to believe but they are finally playing some D and their offense is as crisp as ever. Plus having to probably play them in the 2nd round really sucks big time. If we are not totally healthy come playoff time they could definately take us out.

[hussker]

We have heard this before...In fact, in the early 90's it was said ABOUT us before. Things are way different in a playoff series. You can look it up yourself.

No worries.

[ducks]

why three threads about the mavs?

[spurs=bling]

they are playing good, but they have to prove if they can switch gears like other teams come play off time.

[efrem1]

With Phoenix and Memphis fading, the date with Dallas is definitely on tap. I can't believe that MIA sucked that much tonight.

[dbreiden83080]

Miami is not going to get it together this year and it might their last shot with Shaq. The Pistons are going to cruise to the finals and if we get back it will be a mighty ass tough road.

[Tek_XX]

It's a long season, fortunes change fast. Ask me who i'm worried about in May

[T Park]

_allas.

World Champions of the months of January and February.

[spurs=bling]

Miami is not going to get it together this year and it might their last shot with Shaq. The Pistons are going to cruise to the finals and if we get back it will be a mighty ass tough road.

Shaq is getting old. but they Pistions are going to the finals again, right now there is really no one in the east that can stop them. too bad the Jazz aren't in the east

[midgetonadonkey]

I worry about nothing but injuries.

[TDMVPDPOY]

we are only scared of injuries, so bring on the allas

[itzsoweezee]

First - spurs have a better bench, are better at four of the five positions, have a better bench, and have consistently performed better than the mavs in the playoffs.

Second - what the hell does we should be worried about Dallas mean? Do the Spurs have to be thinking of the mavs every game they play? do we have to make a mavs post every five minutes? does any of this change the fact that the mavs have zero chance of beating the spurs in the post-season?

[boutons_]

"spurs have a better bench"

Over the previous 10 games, how many points have the Spurs and Mavs benches averaged?

[SenorSpur]

First - spurs have a better bench, are better at four of the five positions, have a better bench, and have consistently performed better than the mavs in the playoffs.

Second - what the hell does we should be worried about Dallas mean? Do the Spurs have to be thinking of the mavs every game they play? do we have to make a mavs post every five minutes? does any of this change the fact that the mavs have zero chance of beating the spurs in the post-season?

Obviously, the Mavs are playing very well. Of course, we all they don't hand out championship trophies in February. The second season is the MONEY season. That is where the we'll all see if the Mavs are for real.

The point being made is the Mavs are a far more dangerous this year than in years past. The Avery factor has given them that new defensive edge they were lacking. They finally have a defensive mindset, but they don't necessarily have good defensive players.

It remains to be seen whether their new concept can overcome their "lack" of good defensive players. No way will the Spurs take them lightly and we all know it will be a bang-up series if the two teams meet. Personally, I fully expect the Spurs to win out in the West and kick their butt in a playoff series.

[MI21]

Dallas can't guard Tony Parker.

Spurs in 6.

[mavsfan1000]

Dallas can't guard Tony Parker.

Spurs in 6.
Dallas can guard Wade and Kobe but not Parker? Anyways it is team defense that will slow down Parker. Dallas has Diop waiting in the lane to block shots and change shots.

[Mavtek]

Dallas can't guard Tony Parker.

Spurs in 6.

And the Spurs can't guard Dirk, what's your point? One man does not make a team.

We couldn't stop McGrady last year either, but we still sent em fishing.

[Pandaemonaeon]

Dallas can guard Wade and Kobe but not Parker?

Dallas kept Wade and Kobe in check by running three people at them when they drive, forcing a kick-out to the perimeter. We could afford that risk because Miami and L.A. doesn't have anyone that could punish us when left open, unlike San Antonio.


And the Spurs can't guard Dirk, what's your point? One man does not make a team.

For some reason, they took that one game wherein Bowen purportedly forced Dirk to shoot awfully (when it could very well be attributed to the shooting slump he's been having) as a stigma that Bowen could shut down Dirk. He did have a great defensive play in the end though.

[Vashner]

Little General will rise again!!!!

[TDMVPDPOY]

Dallas can guard Wade and Kobe but not Parker? Anyways it is team defense that will slow down Parker. Dallas has Diop waiting in the lane to block shots and change shots.

uR TEAM are a fuckn joke, you guys cant gaurd BENO or MARKs even if ur lifeline depended on it.

I still prefer to have beno run the point than that scrub player tp

[Tek_XX]

It's going to be to bad that we have to take the mavs out in the second round.

[E20]

Mavs will get booted in the second round. I don't see anything special.

[mavsfan1000]

uR TEAM are a fuckn joke, you guys cant gaurd BENO or MARKs even if ur lifeline depended on it.

I still prefer to have beno run the point than that scrub player tp
Alright it's time to put down that joint. Back to reality.
Parker vs. Terry. Terry is very similar to Billups. Billups a little stronger though but I think Terry can hold his own. It really depends on how Diop's help defense is also.
Ginobili vs. Griffin. Great pickup for Dallas and will be needed to slow down Ginobili.
Bowen vs. Josh Howard. Bowen will give Howard some trouble but I haven't seen Howard being contained since he goes in the flow of the offense well.
Diop and Dampier will guard Duncan. I think Diop can really bother Duncan because he is long and active. Even if he gets in foul trouble Dampier can help out.
Nowitzki vs. Nesterovic. Not even fair. At least put a center that can score. I'll assume that Bowen will have to leave Howard to guard Dirk some but this matchup highly favors Dirk.

[RogerIsEatingASandwich]

As long as the Spurs stay healthy, no worries.

[TDMVPDPOY]

looks like 2nd round exit for the mavs to the hands of the spurs

[Pandaemonaeon]

Parker vs. Terry. Terry is very similar to Billups. Billups a little stronger though but I think Terry can hold his own. It really depends on how Diop's help defense is also.

The difference between Terry and Billups is night and day. Billups has some actual PG skills, Terry doesn't. Billups plays heads-up, physical D, Terry plays, at best, decent D. Scoring-wise - Terry single-handedly shooting the Mavs to the second-round kinda tips the scales a little closer but I would still go with Billups.


Nowitzki vs. Nesterovic. Not even fair. At least put a center that can score. I'll assume that Bowen will have to leave Howard to guard Dirk some but this matchup highly favors Dirk.

Rasho may be crap but there's no question he could score over Dirk at the post.

[ChumpDumper]

Pissing your pants forum.

[TDMVPDPOY]

shoppin for fishing rods, and book a fishing spot for the mavs for their early holiday.

[mavsfan1000]

Rasho may be crap but there's no question he could score over Dirk at the post.
Rasho may be able to score in the post but I doubt Popovich runs any plays for him. I'm glad that you don't overate Dallas but I'm pretty sure Dirk can handle Rasho and in limited duty can handle Duncan also.

[exstatic]

Dallas should be worried about us.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Shaq is getting old. but they Pistions are going to the finals again, right now there is really no one in the east that can stop them. too bad the Jazz aren't in the east
:angel :angel
That's just COLD :drunk

[George Gervin's Afro]

Enough about the Mavs. They are playing great right now and let them believe they have become the favorites. The playoffs are a half court game. Dallas relies on penetrating and breaking the defense down. This will stop in the playoffs as it has for the Spurs. Then the half court gmae begins and guess who has the best low post player in the game? Guess who will dominate the paint during the playoffs? mav fans think dampier and diop can guard duncan one on one.. uh no one has been able to, with the exception of rash-weed, so to assume all of a sudden these two guys will is asking for quite a bit..let's see how dallas operates when they cannot drive and kick...that style of ball has never been successful late in the playoffs..mav fans can argue but history indicates this will be another dissapointing ending to their season.. they have won 13 straight games..and have picked up one on the spurs.. can we please stop buying into the mav hype just yet?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Rasho may be able to score in the post but I doubt Popovich runs any plays for him. I'm glad that you don't overate Dallas but I'm pretty sure Dirk can handle Rasho and in limited duty can handle Duncan also.


since dirk has never 'handled' duncan in the past what makes you so sure all of a sudden he can now?

[Pandaemonaeon]

Rasho may be able to score in the post but I doubt Popovich runs any plays for him. I'm glad that you don't overate Dallas but I'm pretty sure Dirk can handle Rasho and in limited duty can handle Duncan also.

They don't really have to run plays for him to make an impact (although they do so once in a while) - he could outmuscle(!) Dirk for putbacks or draw him out of the paint.


let's see how dallas operates when they cannot drive and kick...that style of ball has never been successful late in the playoffs..mav fans can argue but history indicates this will be another dissapointing ending to their season.

I'm not going to call you out on the Mavs chances... I do have a problem with the way you construct your argument though.

First of: the drive-and-kick is not Dallas's be-all and end-all play; that was last year. This year they score in a myriad of ways - read the Charley Rosen article for more on this. But yeah, they still don't have a low post presence which will bite them in the ass in any match-up, but I just want to clear up that Dallas is not a one-dimensional, drive-and-kick team.

Secondly: citing history as the source of Dallas's potential downfall is retarded. Those previous teams share only one trait - a winning record. The personnel, the mindset, the over-all make-up of those teams are apples compared to this year's orange.

[boutons_]

"what makes you so sure all of a sudden he can now"

Duncan of the past is not PF'ed Duncan of the present.

Who do you prefer in a jumpshooting contest: Dirk or Tim?

[George Gervin's Afro]

"what makes you so sure all of a sudden he can now"

Duncan of the past is not PF'ed Duncan of the present.

Who do you prefer in a jumpshooting contest: Dirk or Tim?


well considering duncan plays in the low post i would have to go with the jumpshooting 7 footer.. I am glad you brought up the fact that present Tim is not as atheltic as younger Tim..never realized as you get older your physical skills diminish... you learn something new everyday..

[SouthernFried]

Half court game favors the Spurs. Playoffs have always been about Half court games. The inside game of the Spurs favor them in the playoffs too, at least against the mavs.

Avery knows this tho, if anyone in the league knows it.

Dirk is an amazing talent, truely. But, lets see how handles the mental pressure of the playoffs. Mav's cannot afford another meltdown by their franchise player. Methinks that, more than anything else...will determine the Mav's success.

[5ToolMan]

These guys are playing like gangbusters right now, 13 in a row hand Miami their asses tonight. It is hard to believe but they are finally playing some D and their offense is as crisp as ever. Plus having to probably play them in the 2nd round really sucks big time. If we are not totally healthy come playoff time they could definately take us out.

They have a very limited post game on offense. While they do look much better on defense, they have some weak links that will be exposed against well balanced offense games. The Spurs know about are built to exploit each of these weak points.

With Dallas having no real offensive post game, and the Spurs defensive strength in the middle, the Spurs perimeter will hound the Mavs outside shooting, limiting one of the Mavs advantages. The Spurs superior offensive post play and penetration by Parker and Manu will put the Mavs bigs, including Dirk in foul trouble much more often than the Spurs, especially Duncan.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Spurs won't worry about Dallas or any other team until they actually have to face them in a 7-game series

[boutons_]

Tim is nothing but another jumpshooter when:

1) a Karl Malone pushes him out to the 3pt line

2) the paint is so clogged Tim can't operate in down low or catch a pass

3) Tim is fronted and is forced, in turn, to front the defender, putting Tim in jumpshooting land

4) Tim's leg/foot injury prevents him making his low block moves.

In spite of 3 straight seasons with injuries, it's too early to say Tim is getting old or wearing out, but all of the above are what Tim will face in the playoffs as teams try to neutralize Tim and thereby neutralize the Spurs. If Tim is reduced jumpshooting, anybody would rather have Dirk. :)

[Mavtek]

Does Detroit have any real low post threat? How'd they ever win a championship? How'd they take you to 7? How have they beaten you soundly twice this year?

Personally I think the Spurs have gotten a little complacent, and their "vets" off the bench are way overated and their skills have clearly diminished as they've gotten older. It's going to take a hell of an effort for the Spurs to beat Dallas this year, anyone who thinks otherwise isn't watching the game. I think it's safe to say that the Mavs are clearly the Spurs biggest threat in the west. I can't wait to see what happens come playoff time.

[TDMVPDPOY]

The mavs are weak team, like what shaun michaels said.

hell even last season they couldnt even gaurd beno in the 4th quarter who took over the benched parker, and layed the smackdown on the mavs.

[Mavtek]

God some of you are so stupid it's a wonder you made it to the "internet" in the 1st place.

We can't stop Manu? You've got to be kidding me!
1st game this season he went 2-11 8-10 from the charity stripe cause he can act.
2nd game this he was DNP

Last year he averaged a whopping 9.7ppg on 32% shooting in 4 games. We seem to have no trouble stopping Ginobli.......... I'm only worried about Parker and Duncan to be honest, and really it's alot more worry for Duncan than Parker because I think Parker's game is very one dimensional.

[ashbeeigh]

Manu:
Fielld Goal Percentage: 48.2%
3 Point Percentage: 36.2%
Free Throw Percentage: 76.8%
Total Average Rebounds: 3.7
Steals: 1.66
Blocks: .46
Points: 15.5

Tony Parker:
Field Goal Percentage: 55.1%
Three Point Percentage: 25%...but it's still kind of early.
Free Throw Percentage: 68%
Total Average Rebounds:3.8
Steals:1.1
Blocks:
Points: 19.7

Tim Duncan:
Field Goal Percentage: 49.2%
Three Point Percentage: .25%
Free Throw Percentage:66.4%
Total Average Rebounds: 11.6
Steals: .7
Blocks:2
Points: 19.9

And your friend Dirk:

Field Goal Percentage: 47.3%
3 Point Percentage: 43%
Free Throw Percentage: 88.9%
Total Average Rebounds: 8.5
Steals:.7
Blocks: 1.1
Points: 25.5

Now, I'm not about to say that I don't believe in Dirk's stats or anything. I do. The Mavs are on a roll. I just don't see who can stop the other things we have up our sleeves. And how can you say Tony is one dimensional with that 55.1%? Please. That's all.

[mavsfan1000]

I am more worried about Parker than Duncan. Terry is not exactly a great defender but I think Harris can do a good job on Parker and will torch Van Exel. Diop seems to me the perfect player to force Duncan to the perimeter more. He is big, long, and athletic. I prefer Duncan taking jumpers than Duncan in the post any day.

[leemajors]

Does Detroit have any real low post threat? How'd they ever win a championship? How'd they take you to 7? How have they beaten you soundly twice this year?

Personally I think the Spurs have gotten a little complacent, and their "vets" off the bench are way overated and their skills have clearly diminished as they've gotten older. It's going to take a hell of an effort for the Spurs to beat Dallas this year, anyone who thinks otherwise isn't watching the game. I think it's safe to say that the Mavs are clearly the Spurs biggest threat in the west. I can't wait to see what happens come playoff time.

mavs are obviously biggest threat, suns right below. i don't think the spurs are complacent, duncan and gnob have nagging injuries that are making it take a bit longer for the spurs to gel. dallas is healthy now and playing well because of it. spurs record is good, but they are winning ugly due to these injuries. detroit has a very real low post threat in sheed, he just chooses not to play in the post most of the time for some reason. and to dismiss gnob as an easy cover is just silly, when he is on no one can guard him. don't listen to tdmvpdpoy and shawn, they are mouths out of control. anyone with half a brain knows that spurs/mavs, if it happens in the playoffs, is gonna be a dogfight - 6 games at least. most spurs fans feel confident that in a seven game series, we have a slight advantage, that's it.

[leemajors]

I am more worried about Parker than Duncan. Terry is not exactly a great defender but I think Harris can do a good job on Parker and will torch Van Exel. Diop seems to me the perfect player to force Duncan to the perimeter more. He is big, long, and athletic. I prefer Duncan taking jumpers than Duncan in the post any day.

i think that in a playoff situation duncan will get diop in foul trouble, especially if he is aggressive. i don't see diop getting the benefit of the doubt.

[Mavtek]

Yep, that's all I have to say, Parker has an inept outside shot, his midrange jumper is at best average. He has a lot of speed which in turn lets him get a lot of layups, he's incredibly mediocre for a guard from the free throw line, and he's certainly not in the top 5 passers in the league. He's a slasher, who can be taken out of the game with a few hard fouls. Honestly if I were guarding him I'd give him 5' on the perimeter so that I could easily keep him in front of me, he'd have open outside jumpers all day until he started hitting them. If he by chance did get by me I'd simply send him to the line.

That's not to say I wouldn't love having a guy like Parker on my team, as a matter of fact the Mavs have Harris who is a whole lot like Parker. On a team with real outside threats Parker could have a field day with drawing and kicking, but SA has no outside threats anymore.

[boutons_]

Mavtek: plonk!

[mavsfan1000]

i think that in a playoff situation duncan will get diop in foul trouble, especially if he is aggressive. i don't see diop getting the benefit of the doubt.
Well the mavs have 12 fouls to give. If Diop gets in foul trouble than Dampier would welcome guarding Duncan. I don't see Duncan posting up a center. That is hard to do. He will have to go out more on the perimeter.

[leemajors]

duncan has been posting centers up for years...

[5ToolMan]

Does Detroit have any real low post threat? How'd they ever win a championship? How'd they take you to 7? How have they beaten you soundly twice this year?

Yes oh great hoops mind, the Pistons do have a serious low post threat.

In fact on the defensive there is non better. Only the Spurs are in the same league with their defensive interior.

On offense both Rasheed and McDyes are great post players and Wallace is a huge threat for creating havoc in the offensive boards.

I would rate the Pistons post offense at 10 and their post offense potential at an 7. Dallas would rate at 5 on defense and 2 on offense.

When you figure out the difference, get back to me. :smokin

[5ToolMan]

Yep, that's all I have to say, Parker has an inept outside shot, his midrange jumper is at best average. He has a lot of speed which in turn lets him get a lot of layups, he's incredibly mediocre for a guard from the free throw line, and he's certainly not in the top 5 passers in the league. He's a slasher, who can be taken out of the game with a few hard fouls. Honestly if I were guarding him I'd give him 5' on the perimeter so that I could easily keep him in front of me, he'd have open outside jumpers all day until he started hitting them. If he by chance did get by me I'd simply send him to the line.

That's not to say I wouldn't love having a guy like Parker on my team, as a matter of fact the Mavs have Harris who is a whole lot like Parker. On a team with real outside threats Parker could have a field day with drawing and kicking, but SA has no outside threats anymore.

If the opposing guard sent Tony to the line everytime he got by them, they would not play more than 5 minutes.

Despite all the yahoos still claiming you can get physical with Tony and keep him out of the paint he has never stopped his penetration since the Laker series in 2004. Last year the Pistons tried to play him physical. Tony took the licking and kept on ticking. He was one of the few Spurs who brought his game - game after game.

On Tony's less than great midrange shot and freethrows, there too you may be living in the past. Since Tony has all but abandoned the three, he has shown continued improvement in his midrange shot and his free throws. He has a private coach that has worked with him since summer, and it appears to be paying off.

In the Toronto game he was almost perfect from mid-range and was a perfect 8 for 8 from the line. Not only did the shots fall, but the motion and followthrough was perfect, you expected them to drop.

[5ToolMan]

Well the mavs have 12 fouls to give. If Diop gets in foul trouble than Dampier would welcome guarding Duncan. I don't see Duncan posting up a center. That is hard to do. He will have to go out more on the perimeter.

Duncan has posted up and abused centers in the post most of his career. Duncan has played many huge moments beside Rose and now beside Horry. In this lineup there is little arguement that Duncan is playing center on both ends of the floor. On offense, Tim has been the Spurs greatest threat in the low post since March of 1998, causing many teams to try to guard him with their center.

[Mavtek]

Yes oh great hoops mind, the Pistons do have a serious low post threat.

In fact on the defensive there is non better. Only the Spurs are in the same league with their defensive interior.

On offense both Rasheed and McDyes are great post players and Wallace is a huge threat for creating havoc in the offensive boards.

I would rate the Pistons post offense at 10 and their post offense potential at an 7. Dallas would rate at 5 on defense and 2 on offense.

When you figure out the difference, get back to me. :smokin


The Pistons do not have a serious low post threat on the offensive end. Rasheed is not and hasn't been for years if he ever was one. He certainly didn't do it in Portland, and I've never seen him do it in Detroit. You'd think if Sheed was such a low post threat Portland would've gotten by Dallas in the Playoffs a few years back when Sheed was at his peak. And please don't talk about Mc Dyes you clearly haven't seen him play very much. He's out there playing against backups, his numbers are inflated and he'd much rather pull up a midrange jumper than go down in the block.

Now if you are telling me that they have a low post presence on offense because big Ben is a great offensive rebounder well guess what, Dampier is #4 in offensive rebounding with almost half the minutes!

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Rebounds.jsp?league=00&season=22005&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=1

Wanna talk about low post defense? Guess which team is leading the league in fewest points in the paint allowed? That's right Dallas!

Here's another one for you! Diop is #3 in blocks per 48 minutes, that's right #3!
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/desagana_diop/index.html?nav=page

You're living in a dream world if you somehow think that the Spurs and Pistons are loads better in low post D than the Mavs. Only time will tell, but I'm seeing fewer and fewer advantages for the Pistons or the Spurs.

[T Park]

The Pistons do not have a serious low post threat on the offensive end

Don't watch many Piston's games do ya.



Man, the arrogance of the _allas fans is unreal.

[5ToolMan]

The Pistons do not have a serious low post threat on the offensive end. Rasheed is not and hasn't been for years if he ever was one. He certainly didn't do it in Portland, and I've never seen him do it in Detroit. You'd think if Sheed was such a low post threat Portland would've gotten by Dallas in the Playoffs a few years back when Sheed was at his peak. And please don't talk about Mc Dyes you clearly haven't seen him play very much. He's out there playing against backups, his numbers are inflated and he'd much rather pull up a midrange jumper than go down in the block./QUOTE]

I have seen plenty of each from the SEVEN GAMES NBA Finals, the two blowouts of the Spurs and many games I watch on League Pass that do not interfere with Spurs games.

Rasheed has a great low post game. Casual fans just don't recognize it because it is under utilized because it is also quite effective for him to pull his man out of the post for penetration and offensive rebounding by others. When Rasheed posts he is always able to either get his shot off or make a good pass to an open teammate. McDyes also can post quite well. I have seen him post Nesto, Nazr, Duncan and especially Horry with success.

Dallas has no one who will dare tp try to take their game in the post against any of the Spurs big three post defenders.


[QUOTE=Mavtek]Now if you are telling me that they have a low post presence on offense because big Ben is a great offensive rebounder well guess what, Dampier is #4 in offensive rebounding with almost half the
minutes!.

In the age of small ball, there are many anomilies in statistice that won't equate to squat, when the big boys his the floor in the playoffs. Wallace with his quickness is hell for any of the Spurs to keep off the boards. With Dampier there are several Spurs strong enough, big enough and quick enough to seal off the boards.


Wanna talk about low post defense? Guess which team is leading the league in fewest points in the paint allowed? That's right Dallas!

Here's another one for you! Diop is #3 in blocks per 48 minutes, that's right #3! .

Go back to my statement about about the many statistical anomilies in today's age of small ball to get your answer.

I certainly acknowledge the Mavs are stronger in Defense this year. But their statistics are not built on an entire year of playing the best at their best. Untill the Mavs can demonstrate they can play post offense and post defense near the level of the big dogs against the big dogs in the playoffs, they will again be playoff fodder.


You're living in a dream world if you somehow think that the Spurs and Pistons are loads better in low post D than the Mavs. Only time will tell, but I'm seeing fewer and fewer advantages for the Pistons or the Spurs.

You got one thing correct. Time will tell. :smokin

[Extra Stout]

I'll be worried about Dallas in the 2006-07 season. This year, they don't have the experience needed to beat the Spurs in a playoff series, but rather only to test them.

Avery Johnson has done a great job teaching Dallas how to win consistently without smoke and mirrors a la Don Nelson. But they're not going to learn how to become a champion until they get close and fail. Last year they got out-clutched by a Suns team that, immediately following their beating of Dallas, learned the lesson Dallas will have to learn this year.

Unless Dallas just runs away with it and ends up 10 games ahead of the Spurs, such that they are so dominant that it overcomes their relative inexperience deep in the postseason, they will not make it out of the second round.

Frankly, Phoenix is a bigger threat in the 2006 playoffs. The value of playoff experience cannot be underestimated.

These comments apply only to this year. It is becoming increasingly clear that this Mavericks team over the next few years is the most likely to knock the Spurs off their throne in the West. But first they must earn their stripes.

[Mavtek]

5 Tool, if the Spurs are so great at preventing Dampier from getting offensive boards how come he's averaging 3.8 orpg vs the Spurs in the last 6 games he's played em, and he's done that in just 25 minutes per?

I'm sorry my statistics aren't working for you, that's just too bad, but I don't know how to argue unless I present factual data. I guess I could just say no you're wrong cause I just know they are better, but then everyone would just call me a homer.

[leemajors]

5tool already said the mavs are better on defense this year. what is your point?

[T Park]

love how these mavs fans all of a sudden think Eric Dampier is a legit center.

[SequSpur]

The Pistons do not have a serious low post threat on the offensive end. Rasheed is not and hasn't been for years if he ever was one. He certainly didn't do it in Portland, and I've never seen him do it in Detroit.

You're living in a dream world if you somehow think that the Spurs and Pistons are loads better in low post D than the Mavs. Only time will tell, but I'm seeing fewer and fewer advantages for the Pistons or the Spurs.

Dude, props to you and your team.

But you're a fucking idiot.

[leemajors]

ahahaha

[Leetonidas]

Minus Pandemonium, you Dallas fans aren't very bright. If you really think Diop and Dampier are going to stop the Spurs, you're living in a fantasy land. Those are the only two pretty good decent defensive players for Dallas, and the Spurs starting line has better defensive players than the entire Dallas team.

Rasho: Probably one of the best defensive bigmen there is, behind Ben Wallace.

Tim Duncan: Just that name should put fear into you.

Bruce Bowen: Best perimeter defender.

Manu Ginobili: Not as good as Bruce, but Manu is one hell of a tenacious defender.

Tony Parker: Tony can stay in front of any point guard. Terry cannot stay in front of him and he does not have anywhere close to the strength of Billups.

So yeah, keep living in your Dirk will own everyone, Josh Howard is God, Terry is clutch, and Keith Van Horn is Jesus reborn fantasy land. Dallas is a good team, but they are not going to beat the Spurs in the playoffs.

Take Phoenix as a good example and look how they got their asses handed to them.

[SequSpur]

Rasho: Probably one of the best defensive bigmen there is, behind Ben Wallace.

Ok... you're take was very good except for this part. Back off the yaigerPOPster......

:fro

[phyzik]

Dude, props to you and your team.

But you're a fucking idiot.

truth...

[pking]

Minus Pandemonium, you Dallas fans aren't very bright. If you really think Diop and Dampier are going to stop the Spurs, you're living in a fantasy land. Those are the only two pretty good decent defensive players for Dallas, and the Spurs starting line has better defensive players than the entire Dallas team.

Rasho: Probably one of the best defensive bigmen there is, behind Ben Wallace.

Tim Duncan: Just that name should put fear into you.

Bruce Bowen: Best perimeter defender.

Manu Ginobili: Not as good as Bruce, but Manu is one hell of a tenacious defender.

Tony Parker: Tony can stay in front of any point guard. Terry cannot stay in front of him and he does not have anywhere close to the strength of Billups.

So yeah, keep living in your Dirk will own everyone, Josh Howard is God, Terry is clutch, and Keith Van Horn is Jesus reborn fantasy land. Dallas is a good team, but they are not going to beat the Spurs in the playoffs.

Take Phoenix as a good example and look how they got their asses handed to them.

Trust me, not all of us Dallas fans think like that.

[Leetonidas]

Ok... you're take was very good except for this part. Back off the yaigerPOPster......

:fro

You don't think Rasho is a great defensive center? What other center besides Wallace is a better interior defender than him?

And pking, then you are on the list with Pandemonium. :spin

[adrienne]

If you could assume an entire fanbase was as dumb as their stupidest fan/fans, I'd have an EXTREMELY low opinion of Spurs fans.

I think Mavs are the third best team in the league, behind Detroit and San Antonio. I respect those teams talents. And I respect that this is a Spurs board. But to those of you STILL referring to Dallas as "-allas"...watch an effing Mavs game. THIS. IS. NOT. THE. SAME. TEAM.

That is all.

Go Mavs, and God bless you all.:)

[Leetonidas]

If you could assume an entire fanbase was as dumb as their stupidest fan/fans, I'd have an EXTREMELY low opinion of Spurs fans.

I was talking about the posters who have replied in this thread.

[JHoLove]

Diop and Dampier are going to stop the Spurs


Well, not all by themselves.

[Mavtek]

God this place is full of way too many homers, I'm using stats and facts and you can only retort with "fucking idiot".

[SequSpur]

God this place is full of way too many homers, I'm using stats and facts and you can only retort with "fucking idiot".

rasheed is one of the best post players in the NBA and he can shoot the three, I think you got him mixed up with Noweakski.

[Leetonidas]

God this place is full of way too many homers, I'm using stats and facts and you can only retort with "fucking idiot".

Stats don't mean anything come playoff team, because I think the Suns had a better record stat wise than the Spurs. :rolleyes

[angel_luv]

Dude Mavs down 17 in the first quarter to Denver... I never thought I would say this but go Nuggets!

[Despot]

I refuse to give Dallas any credit until they take us to six games in a playoff series.

[angel_luv]

Oops I was a jinx... Mavs caught up.

[Old School Chic]

I refuse to give Dallas any credit until they take us to six games in a playoff series.

:lol Not in this lifetime :lol

[Despot]

I lost all respect for them when they started the Hack-A-Bowen in the second quarter of the first game of the 2003 WCF. And they even f*cked that up.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I lost all respect for them when they started the Hack-A-Bowen in the second quarter of the first game of the 2003 WCF. And they even f*cked that up.


Uhhhhhh the mavs went on to win game 1 of the conf finals in 2003

[Despot]

Was referring to how they hacked Bowen when he didn't even have the ball.

[Guru of Nothing]

5 Tool, if the Spurs are so great at preventing Dampier from getting offensive boards how come he's averaging 3.8 orpg vs the Spurs in the last 6 games he's played em, and he's done that in just 25 minutes per?

I'm sorry my statistics aren't working for you, that's just too bad, but I don't know how to argue unless I present factual data. I guess I could just say no you're wrong cause I just know they are better, but then everyone would just call me a homer.

Hey Mr. Stat man, care to show a relationship between Dampier's stats and his contract?

[Despot]

Was referring to how they hacked Bowen when he didn't even have the ball.

They also tried doing it in Game 3, but Bruce somehow miraculously learned how to shoot them.

[carina_gino20]

Parker has been running circles on almost every opponent this year.
Ginobili- This guy is deep---talentwise, emotionally, mentally, etc. How do you slow him down?
Bowen not stopping Howard? Did you miss last season's WCF? WTH did Bruce do to Marion?
Tim Duncan? I wouldn't even start talking about him.

[Pandaemonaeon]

God this place is full of way too many homers, I'm using stats and facts and you can only retort with "fucking idiot".

Can't say I blame them. They've been colonized by Mouse and Mouse-lites.

There's nothing wrong with being ranked behind SA and Detroit; I'd take that as a compliment considering those teams won titles the last 3 years. If we want to go higher, we better do something in June. Until then, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone scoffs at anything less.

That said, I expect a little bit of credit (halfbaked ones doesn't count) given the strides the Mavs have done this season. Yes, they're arguably not going to beat the Spurs and still far from being a well-oiled machine but you got to admit - this team is really good.

[Rummpd]

All the Mav fans just figure out when the last possible date is for the 2nd round and then prepare your annual fishing trip. Mark it down Dirk will walk off that court with the same dazed expression as always in the playoffs. Much more worried about the Suns still.

The Mavs are defiinetely the team likely to win sixty that is also most likely lose in the first round as you will have the 4th seed. Almost assuredly, the Spurs will hold you off. If you cannot catch them with a 13 game winning streak it is obvious the Spurs are in the process of making their annual run.

Do you also think that the Grizz or Clippers fear the Mavs as much as the Spurs - they would lick their chops to avoid the Spurs - please enough about the Mavs till they do something.

If for some reason, i.e. Spurs health they win the Division I am sure Phil Jackson and the Lakers or any other team in the 8 spot would much rather play the Mavs than the Spurs period.

Where is the best fishing spot around your twin cities? You guys must know it well.

[5ToolMan]

5 Tool, if the Spurs are so great at preventing Dampier from getting offensive boards how come he's averaging 3.8 orpg vs the Spurs in the last 6 games he's played em, and he's done that in just 25 minutes per?

I'm sorry my statistics aren't working for you, that's just too bad, but I don't know how to argue unless I present factual data. I guess I could just say no you're wrong cause I just know they are better, but then everyone would just call me a homer.

Statistics can be used to "prove" almost anything you want them to say. Dampier's stats may show how well he rebounds against the Spurs to one trying to prove a point. But when one considers other factors, like who was missing from the Spurs frontline, and how many of the boards were just stat padding during garbage time, they may get a different picture.

When fans start to understand the difference between the regular season and playoff success, stats from the regular season don't equate to much.
I will cut you some slack for not understanding the difference between the regular season and the playoffs, after all, you are a Mavs fan.

In the regular season, even for big regular season games, teams have little time to prepare and make adjustments for specific matchups. In the playoffs, the intensity of win or go home and the added time to fucus on every aspect of the individual and team matchups make for many playoff surprises for those who base much of their understanding of the game on regular season stats.

Once the Spurs perimeter defenders adjust to the speed and tendencies of the Mavs dribble penetrators, as I believe they will in a playoff series, I don't see Dampier or the rest of the Mavs getting as many rebounds as their regular season stats may indicate.

Dirk's ability to draw one of the bigs out of the paint has had a positive impact on the Mavs offensive rebounding numbers during the regular season. Against the Spurs in the playoffs, expect to see more Bowen and Manu guarding Dirk to keep Tim in the paint.

[Joepa]

The Mavs are playing really good defense, thanks to a product of the SA spurs (AJ), however experience counts for a lot. It's a big deal for them to go toe to toe with a team that has one 3 out of 7 titles. It's not a big deal for SA to swat the same fly that they swat on a regular basis.

I think the mavs are going to be more of a challenge this year than any other, and them taking us to 6 games is definitlely a strong possibility. But I'm not willing to say they're the best team in the league until they get it done in the playoffs.

[5ToolMan]

It's a big deal for them to go toe to toe with a team that has one 3 out of 7 titles. It's not a big deal for SA to swat the same fly that they swat on a regular basis.

This says it all.

As Pop said in his recent interview, every team in the league wants to bring it all against the Spurs. A victory over the Spurs gets teams on rolls, saves a coach his job, gets a FA a big raise ... or validates to players and their fans that they are serious contenders. The Spurs on the other hand just see each game as a stepping stone to put in their systems in place for the playoffs.

It has been great that the Pistons and Mavs have played well enough to allow the Spurs to play somewhat under the radar. This will cause other teams, coaches and fans to try to make their seasons in the second half with big games against the Pistons and Mavs. This may cause some minor slippage by the Pistons and Mavs and allow the Spurs to somehow pass them for home court.

[Warlord23]

That's not to say I wouldn't love having a guy like Parker on my team, as a matter of fact the Mavs have Harris who is a whole lot like Parker. On a team with real outside threats Parker could have a field day with drawing and kicking, but SA has no outside threats anymore.
How do I begin dissecting this statement? Don't Bowen, Ginobili, Horry, Barry, Finley and Van Exel count as outside shooters? That the Spurs absolutely tore it up from 3-pt land in their last playoff run was a significant reason why we got past Phoenix and Detroit.

If you tell me that Nowitzki, Stackhouse, Van Horn and Terry are more reliable shooters in the playoffs than what the Spurs have, I'd like to see you defend that claim. Most of the statistics you've pulled up in your claims are all related to the regular season. Yes, we know that the Mavs are a great regular-season team. They won 59 last year, same as the Spurs. How about pulling up a few statistics pertinent to the playoffs?

Nowitzki: Remember last year? Dirk went from scoring 26.1 pts on 46% (40% 3FG) shooting over 82 games to 23.7 on 40% (33% 3FG) shooting. Dirk's Achilles heel was exposed last year: guarded by smaller, quicker players like McGrady and Marion, his game unraveled. Bowen will be waiting.

Stackhouse: The only playoff action he's seen is last year with the Mavericks. He should have been the X-factor for Dallas with Joe Johnson getting injured. Didn't happen. Working against the likes of Jimmy Jackson and Q, he shot under 40% for the series.

Van Horn: What can I tell you about Van Horn and the playoffs that you don't already know? The man's regular season shooting of 17 ppg at 44% drops down to 12 ppg at 40% in the playoffs. And he doesn't have much to contribute on the defensive end either. In fact, it was a real blessing in disguise for the Mavs that he went down injured in the playoffs last year.

Terry: Again, his only playoff experience was last year. I must admit though, he's shooting extremely well this season, so I won't hold his dearth of playoff experience against him. He may really be a difference maker.

How about the Spur shooters?

Horry: Stats can never measure what Horry brings in playoff games, but here are a few. Horry's 3-pt% in the 2004-05 regular season was 37% (identical to this season so far, btw). In last year's playoffs however, this jumped up to 45%. And his stats improve across the board in the postseason, too.

Ginobili: Ginobili didn't really have an awesome regular season last year (16/3.8/3/3 at 47% FGP, 37.6% 3FGP). He really made a name for himself in the playoffs, with 20.8/5.8/4/2 at 51% FGP, 44% 3FGP.

Bowen: Bruce shot an impressive 43% from 3-point land in last year's playoffs, up from his 04-05 regular season average of 40%. This year? He's shooting the trey at an amazing 45%.

Barry: Spurs fans are so critical of Barry that it would seem to the casual observer that Barry's shooting is similar to the likes of Van Horn and Antoine Walker. While he may pass up too many shots, he shot 42.5% from 3-point range in last-year's play-offs, which was easily better than any Maverick player's 3-pt shooting. And he is the 2nd swingman off the bench.

I won't talk about Finley or Van Exel as they haven't played a single playoff game as a Spur. But already they have shown that they are an upgrade over Devin Brown and Beno respectively (the 2 corresponding players in last year's playoff run).

Notice a trend in the stats I've given? Historically, the overall performance of key Spurs like Horry, Bowen, Ginobili really kicks into gear in the playoffs, while the Mavs' goes down south. That is the reason why playoff-tested veterans are valued more than regular season wonders. And that is why, until proven otherwise, Nowitzki, Van Horn and Stackhouse can't be compared to Duncan, Horry, Ginobili, Bowen etc.

[Pandaemonaeon]

Nowitzki: Remember last year? Dirk went from scoring 26.1 pts on 46% (40% 3FG) shooting over 82 games to 23.7 on 40% (33% 3FG) shooting. Dirk's Achilles heel was exposed last year: guarded by smaller, quicker players like McGrady and Marion, his game unraveled. Bowen will be waiting.

Like you said: that's last year. This season, Dirk's no longer fazed by smaller defenders - he'll either just post you up closer to the basket or look for open cutters. And one drawback of sending your small defender to hound Dirk is that there will be a mismatch on one end. In Houston's case, Yao ended up with either Howard or Terry and they punished him for it. I don't know exactly who's going to guard whom but I suppose SA could afford this risk with Griff around but I expect AJ to use Stack more to address this.

But as always, it remains to be seen if these 'adjustments' would translate to the playoffs or how it would fare against the almighty Spurs. We'll see.


Stackhouse: The only playoff action he's seen is last year with the Mavericks. He should have been the X-factor for Dallas with Joe Johnson getting injured. Didn't happen. Working against the likes of Jimmy Jackson and Q, he shot under 40% for the series.

He's been in the playoffs with the Pistons, I think. Yes he shot around 40% but what else is new? I thought he did great against Phoenix and was arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player during that series because he played his heart out.

[FromWayDowntown]

Like you said: that's last year. This season, Dirk's no longer fazed by smaller defenders - he'll either just post you up closer to the basket or look for open cutters.

With all due respect, I haven't seen Dirk developing a pure post-up game to take advantage of size mismatches. About the best that can be said is that he'll face up from about 10-15 feet, knowing he's a bounce from the hole, but more often than not, he resorts to that fade-away. He hits it with some regularity, but it's hardly an aggressive play against a smaller defender.


And one drawback of sending your small defender to hound Dirk is that there will be a mismatch on one end. In Houston's case, Yao ended up with either Howard or Terry and they punished him for it. I don't know exactly who's going to guard whom but I suppose SA could afford this risk with Griff around but I expect AJ to use Stack more to address this.

I would think that among the starting groups, Pop would do much like he did against Phoenix in the '05 WCF -- play Bowen on Nowitzki and play Duncan on Griffin, particularly early in games. If Griffin wants to try to take advantage of that matchup, he's taking the ball out of the hands of other scorers, which I think the Spurs would find an acceptable result.

I think the Spurs would also take the idea of Stackhouse playing lots of minutes in Griffin's place, largely because Stackhouse can't defend the way Griffin can. As for the matchups on the defensive end, the remedy is relatively simple from the Spurs standpoint as long as Robert Horry is healthy.

[mavsfan1000]

Bowen can't guard Nowitzki. Too small.

[FromWayDowntown]

Bowen can't guard Nowitzki. Too small.

As long as Dirk is primarily a jumpshooter, the length of his defender is relatively insignificant, since it's about denying him the catch, keeping a hand in his face, and forcing him to take bad shots -- shots that are rushed and out-of-rhythm. If Dirk decides, all of a sudden, to become a back-to-the-basket post player, then you might be right. But Dirk isn't that guy and doesn't show any real signs of wanting to be that guy. Accordingly, a smaller defender can be effective in at least trying to make him a volume scorer.

[Leetonidas]

Bowen can't guard Nowitzki. Too small.

Did you forget that Chris Bosh didn't get the ball at all in OT in Toronto? Bowen plays Nowitzki pretty good.

[mavsfan1000]

As long as Dirk is primarily a jumpshooter, the length of his defender is relatively insignificant, since it's about denying him the catch, keeping a hand in his face, and forcing him to take bad shots -- shots that are rushed and out-of-rhythm. If Dirk decides, all of a sudden, to become a back-to-the-basket post player, then you might be right. But Dirk isn't that guy and doesn't show any real signs of wanting to be that guy. Accordingly, a smaller defender can be effective in at least trying to make him a volume scorer.
Length does matter. Mcgrady might be a smaller but he had some length. Same with Ryan Bowen. Bowen won't even be seen. Dirk will post up Bowen and shoot a fade away from close range. If you watched the Heat game that is exactly what he did to Posey.

[Despot]

Length does matter. Mcgrady might be a smaller but he had some length. Same with Ryan Bowen. Bowen won't even be seen. Dirk will post up Bowen and shoot a fade away from close range. If you watched the Heat game that is exactly what he did to Posey.

At least you got one thing right in that post, and my wife agrees with it.

[Pandaemonaeon]

With all due respect, I haven't seen Dirk developing a pure post-up game to take advantage of size mismatches.

It's not a pure post-up game, but we all know he's almost automatic when shooting a jumper from 8-10 feet around the basket... something which he could do with relative ease these days by just backing down his defender all the way near the basket - as seen on Posey and Artest. If teams aggressively double team him on the elbow, he'll just pass out and swing the ball.

I think he'll do much better when hounded by T-Mac this time around.