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SA210
02-10-2006, 10:08 AM
February 10th, 2006 2:52 am
White House Knew of Levee's Failure on Night of Storm

By Eric Lipton / New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/10/politics/10katrina.html?hp&ex=1139634000&en=914abcf6c2b5fc5a&ei=5094&partner=homepage)


WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 — In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Bush administration officials said they had been caught by surprise when they were told on Tuesday, Aug. 30, that a levee had broken, allowing floodwaters to engulf New Orleans.

But Congressional investigators have now learned that an eyewitness account of the flooding from a federal emergency official reached the Homeland Security Department's headquarters starting at 9:27 p.m. the day before, and the White House itself at midnight.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency official, Marty Bahamonde, first heard of a major levee breach Monday morning. By late Monday afternoon, Mr. Bahamonde had hitched a ride on a Coast Guard helicopter over the breach at the 17th Street Canal to confirm the extensive flooding. He then telephoned his report to FEMA headquarters in Washington, which notified the Homeland Security Department.

"FYI from FEMA," said an e-mail message from the agency's public affairs staff describing the helicopter flight, sent Monday night at 9:27 to the chief of staff of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and recently unearthed by investigators. Conditions, the message said, "are far more serious than media reports are currently reflecting. Finding extensive flooding and more stranded people than they had thought — also a number of fires."

Michael D. Brown, who was the director of FEMA until he resigned under pressure on Sept. 12, said in a telephone interview Thursday that he personally notified the White House of this news that night, though he declined to identify the official he spoke to.

White House officials have confirmed to Congressional investigators that the report of the levee break arrived there at midnight, and Trent Duffy, the White House spokesman, acknowledged as much in an interview this week, though he said it was surrounded with conflicting reports.

But the alert did not seem to register. Even the next morning, President Bush, on vacation in Texas, was feeling relieved that New Orleans had "dodged the bullet," he later recalled. Mr. Chertoff, similarly confident, flew Tuesday to Atlanta for a briefing on avian flu. With power out from the high winds and movement limited, even news reporters in New Orleans remained unaware of the full extent of the levee breaches until Tuesday.

The federal government let out a sigh of relief when in fact it should have been sounding an "all hands on deck" alarm, the investigators have found.

This chain of events, along with dozens of other critical flashpoints in the Hurricane Katrina saga, has for the first time been laid out in detail following five months of work by two Congressional committees that have assembled nearly 800,000 pages of documents, testimony and interviews from more than 250 witnesses. Investigators now have the documentation to pinpoint some of the fundamental errors and oversights that combined to produce what is universally agreed to be a flawed government response to the worst natural disaster in modern American history.

On Friday, Mr. Brown, the former FEMA director, is scheduled to testify before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. He is expected to confirm that he notified the White House on that Monday, the day the hurricane hit, that the levee had given way, the city was flooding and his crews were overwhelmed.

"There is no question in my mind that at the highest levels of the White House they understood how grave the situation was," Mr. Brown said in the interview.

The problem, he said, was the handicapping of FEMA when it was turned into a division of the Homeland Security Department in 2003.

"The real story is with this new structure," he said. "Why weren't more things done, or what prevented or delayed Mike Brown from being able to do what he would have done and did do in any other disaster?"

Although Mr. Bahamonde said in October that he had notified Mr. Brown that Monday, it was not known until recently what Mr. Brown or the Homeland Security Department did with that information, or when the White House was told.

Missteps at All Levels

It has been known since the earliest days of the storm that all levels of government — from the White House to the Department of Homeland Security to the Louisiana Capitol to New Orleans City Hall — were unprepared, uncommunicative and phlegmatic in protecting Gulf Coast residents from the floodwaters and their aftermath. But an examination of the latest evidence by The New York Times shines a new light on the key players involved in the important turning points: what they said, what they did and what they did not do, all of which will soon be written up in the committees' investigative reports.

Among the findings that emerge in the mass of documents and testimony were these:

¶Federal officials knew long before the storm showed up on the radar that 100,000 people in New Orleans had no way to escape a major hurricane on their own and that the city had finished only 10 percent of a plan for how to evacuate its largely poor, African-American population.

¶Mr. Chertoff failed to name a principal federal official to oversee the response before the hurricane arrived, an omission a top Pentagon official acknowledged to investigators complicated the coordination of the response. His department also did not plan enough to prevent a conflict over which agency should be in charge of law enforcement support. And Mr. Chertoff was either poorly informed about the levee break or did not recognize the significance of the initial report about it, investigators said.

¶The Louisiana transportation secretary, Johnny B. Bradberry, who had legal responsibility for the evacuation of thousands of people in nursing homes and hospitals, admitted bluntly to investigators, "We put no plans in place to do any of this."

¶Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans at first directed his staff to prepare a mandatory evacuation of his city on Saturday, two days before the storm hit, but he testified that he had not done so that day while he and other city officials struggled to decide if they should exempt hospitals and hotels from the order. The mandatory evacuation occurred on Sunday, and the delay exacerbated the difficulty in moving people away from the storm.

¶The New Orleans Police Department unit assigned to the rescue effort, despite many years' worth of flood warnings and requests for money, had just three small boats and no food, water or fuel to supply its emergency workers.

¶Investigators could find no evidence that food and water supplies were formally ordered for the Convention Center, where more than 10,000 evacuees had assembled, until days after the city had decided to open it as a backup emergency shelter. FEMA had planned to have 360,000 ready-to-eat meals delivered to the city and 15 trucks of water in advance of the storm. But only 40,000 meals and five trucks of water had arrived.

Representative Thomas M. Davis III, Republican of Virginia, chairman of the special House committee investigating the hurricane response, said the only government agency that performed well was the National Weather Service, which correctly predicted the force of the storm. But no one heeded the message, he said.

"The president is still at his ranch, the vice president is still fly-fishing in Wyoming, the president's chief of staff is in Maine," Mr. Davis said. "In retrospect, don't you think it would have been better to pull together? They should have had better leadership. It is disengagement."

One of the greatest mysteries for both the House and Senate committees has been why it took so long, even after Mr. Bahamonde filed his urgent report on the Monday the storm hit, for federal officials to appreciate that the levee had broken and that New Orleans was flooding.

Eyewitness to Devastation

As his helicopter approached the site, Mr. Bahamonde testified in October, there was no mistaking what had happened: large sections of the levee had fallen over, leaving the section of the city on the collapsed side entirely submerged, but the neighborhood on the other side relatively dry. He snapped a picture of the scene with a small camera.

"The situation is only going to get worse," he said he warned Mr. Brown, then the FEMA director, whom he called about 8 p.m. Monday Eastern time to report on his helicopter tour.

"Thank you," he said Mr. Brown replied. "I am now going to call the White House."

Citing restrictions placed on him by his lawyers, Mr. Brown declined to tell House investigators during testimony if he had actually made that call. White House aides have urged administration officials not to discuss any conversations with the president or his top advisors and declined to release e-mail messages sent among Mr. Bush's senior advisors.

But investigators have found the e-mail message referring to Mr. Bahamonde's helicopter survey that was sent to John F. Wood, chief of staff to Secretary Chertoff at 9:27 p.m. They have also found a summary of Mr. Bahamonde's observations that was issued at 10:30 p.m. and an 11:05 p.m. e-mail message to Michael Jackson, the deputy secretary of homeland security. Each message describes in detail the extensive flooding that was taking place in New Orleans after the levee collapse.

Given this chain of events, investigators have repeatedly questioned why Mr. Bush and Mr. Chertoff stated in the days after the storm that the levee break did not happen until Tuesday, as they made an effort to explain why they initially thought the storm had passed without the catastrophe that some had feared.

"The hurricane started to depart the area on Monday, and then Tuesday morning the levee broke and the water started to flood into New Orleans," Mr. Chertoff said on CBS's "Face the Nation" on Sunday, Sept. 4, the weekend after the hurricane hit.

Mr. Chertoff and White House officials have said that they were referring to official confirmation that the levee had broken, which they say they received Tuesday morning from the Army Corps of Engineers. They also say there were conflicting reports all day Monday about whether a breach had occurred and noted that they were not alone in failing to recognize the growing catastrophe.

Mr. Duffy, the White House spokesman, said it would not have made much difference even if the White House had realized the significance of the midnight report. "Like it or not, you cannot fix a levee overnight, or in an hour, or even six hours," he said.

But Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine and chairwoman of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, said it was obvious to her in retrospect that Mr. Chertoff, perhaps in deference to Mr. Brown's authority, was not paying close enough attention to the events in New Orleans and that the federal response to the disaster may have been slowed as a result.

"Secretary Chertoff was too disengaged from the process," Ms. Collins said in an interview.

Compounding the problem, once Mr. Chertoff learned of the levee break on Tuesday, he could not reach Mr. Brown, his top emergency response official, for an entire day because Mr. Brown was on helicopter tours of the damage.

Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, the ranking Democrat on the homeland security committee, said the government confusion reminded him of the period surrounding the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

"Information was in different places, in that case prior to the attack," Mr. Lieberman said, "and it wasn't reaching the key decision makers in a coordinated way for them to take action."

Russ Knocke, a homeland security spokesman, said that although Mr. Chertoff had been "intensely involved in monitoring the storm" he had not actually been told about the report of the levee breach until Tuesday, after he arrived in Atlanta.

"No one is satisfied with the response in the early days," Mr. Knocke said.

But he rejected criticism by Senator Collins and others that Mr. Chertoff was disengaged.

"He was not informed of it," Mr. Knocke said. "It is certainly a breakdown. And through an after-action process, that is something we will address."

The day before the hurricane made landfall, the Homeland Security Department issued a report predicting that it could lead to a levee breach that could submerge New Orleans for months and leave 100,000 people stranded. Yet despite these warnings, state, federal and local officials acknowledged to investigators that there was no coordinated effort before the storm arrived to evacuate nursing homes and hospitals or others in the urban population without cars.

Focus on Highway Plan

Mr. Bradberry, the state transportation secretary, told an investigator that he had focused on improving the highway evacuation plan for the general public with cars and had not attended to his responsibility to remove people from hospitals and nursing homes. The state even turned down an offer for patient evacuation assistance from the federal government.

In fact, the city was desperately in need of help. And this failure would have deadly consequences. Only 21 of the 60 or so nursing homes were cleared of residents before the storm struck. Dozens of lives were lost in hospitals and nursing homes.

One reason the city was unable to help itself, investigators said, is that it never bought the basic equipment needed to respond to the long-predicted catastrophe. The Fire Department had asked for inflatable boats and generators, as well as an emergency food supply, but none were provided, a department official told investigators.

Timothy P. Bayard, a police narcotics commander assigned to lead a water rescue effort, said that with just three boats, not counting the two it commandeered and almost no working radios, his small team spent much of its time initially just trying to rescue detectives who themselves were trapped by rising water.

The investigators also determined that the federal Department of Transportation was not asked until Wednesday to provide buses to evacuate the Superdome and the convention center, meaning that evacuees sat there for perhaps two more days longer than necessary.

Mr. Brown acknowledged to investigators that he wished, in retrospect, that he had moved much earlier to turn over major aspects of the response effort to the Department of Defense. It was not until the middle of the week, he said, that he asked the military to take over the delivery and distribution of water, food and ice. "In hindsight I should have done it right then," Mr. Brown told the House, referring to the Sunday before the storm hit.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/livindeadboi/bush_enduringvacation.jpg

SA210
02-10-2006, 10:27 AM
Mike Brown is tesifying right now on MSNBC.

He's claiming that he let the White House know the 1st night and that it's bogus what The Department of Homeland Security has said.

boutons_
02-10-2006, 10:43 AM
If one accepts that the Repugs hate federal government and are therefore totally against serious govt management by career professionals, while preferring to fuck up the govt with by appointing incompetent political operatives and cronies while running career professionals out of govt, then all the widely recognized, documented fuckups by the Repugs for the past 5 years are perfectly understandable.

Brownie and FEMA/DHS are the epitome of stereotypical Repug fuckup-ism.

xrayzebra
02-10-2006, 03:38 PM
The real question is: Did the Mayor and Governor know? If so, where were they
with help for their citizens.? Or better yet, what were the citizens doing for them
selves? The federal government is not a first responder, that is local and state
responsibility. Of course now they cant get all their voters to come home. How
come?

IcemanCometh
02-10-2006, 04:39 PM
The responsibility,of government, for the public safety is absolute and requires no mandate. It is in fact, the prime object for which governments come into existence.

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-12-2006, 11:47 PM
onditions, the message said, "are far more serious than media reports are currently reflecting. Finding extensive flooding and more stranded people than they had thought — also a number of fires."

Hmm, I don't see anything anywhere in there about a levee breaking, just flooding, which everyone knew was happening.

Harry Whittington
02-13-2006, 12:12 AM
I know the Muther Fuckers can't shoot straight! THAT DICK!!!!

Vashner
02-13-2006, 12:24 AM
So did everyone else.. it was on tv.

You have to wait for a damage assesment before you can do anything really.

The first 72 hour response is up to the local govt not the feds.

We have to hash this shit over again...

baby want bottle? ...

George W Bush
02-13-2006, 09:02 AM
I knew the levees broke that day, Brownie let me know,
now that doesn't mean I have to admit that.
Afterall I stole that election fair and square.

God Bless America :tu

ChumpDumper
02-13-2006, 11:44 AM
You would think someone with the number to the White House was watching CNN that night (the only network that wasn't putting on reruns when the levees actually broke). Hell, Manny and AHF could've briefed them better than any DHS bureaucrat.

Yonivore
02-13-2006, 12:14 PM
White House Knew Levee's Failed Night of Storm
That's amazing given the levees didn't fail until Tueday and the storm made landfall the previous weekend.

I guess no one remembers the "New Orleans dodges a bullet: Levees hold" headlines on the Monday and Tuesday after the storm.

It's no wonder this country is going to hell in a handbasket, everybody creates their own freakin' reality and treats it as gospel.

ChumpDumper
02-13-2006, 12:35 PM
The first report of a levee break I saw was around 2AM our time Tuesday morning.

How could you have a "levees hold" headline in a Monday paper before the storm even hit?

As for Tuesday, well -- Dewey defeated Truman in the papers too. Late developments can often render headlines moot.

boutons_
02-13-2006, 01:53 PM
The Congressional Repugs try to distance themselves from the habitual fuckups in the WH in this 2006 election year. Why? Because the hear from their constituencies the overwhelming negative attitudes toward dubya/dickhead.

=====================

February 13, 2006


Republicans' Report on Katrina Assails Response

By ERIC LIPTON

WASHINGTON, Feb. 12 * House Republicans plan to issue a blistering report on Wednesday that says the Bush administration delayed the evacuation of thousands of New Orleans residents by failing to act quickly on early reports that the levees had broken during Hurricane Katrina.

A draft of the report, to be issued by an 11-member, all-Republican committee, says the Bush administration was informed on the day Hurricane Katrina hit that the levees had been breached, even though the president and other top administration officials earlier said that they had learned of the breach the next day.

That delay was significant, the report says, rejecting the defense given by the White House and the Department of Homeland Security that the time it took to recognize the breach did not significantly affect the response.

"If the levees breached and flooded a large portion of the city, then the flooded city would have to be completely evacuated," the draft report says. "Any delay in confirming the breaches would result in a delay in the post-landfall evacuation of the city." It adds that the White House itself discounted damage reports that later proved true.

The report, by the select House committee examining the government's response to Hurricane Katrina, is the first of three major investigations into the subject; the others, for which reports are expected within one or two months, are being conducted by a Senate committee and by the White House.

The House report blames all levels of government, from the White House to Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco of Louisiana to Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans, for the delayed response to the storm.

"Our investigation revealed that Katrina was a national failure, an abdication of the most solemn obligation to provide for the common welfare," the draft says. "At every level * individual, corporate, philanthropic and governmental * we failed to meet the challenge that was Katrina. In this cautionary tale, all the little pigs built houses of straw."

A White House spokesman said that President Bush was now focused on the future, not the past.

( aka, future = continued protection of and tax-cuts for the rich + corps, while telling the rest of the country to go get fucked. )

A Department of Homeland Security spokesman said that Michael D. Brown, the former director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, was partly to blame for failing to make timely reports to his superiors.

( ... sliming Brownie while denying any DHS/FEMA responsibility. We are to believe Brownie was a lone-wolf, fucking up by himself, with no supervision by his DHS bosses. GMAFB )

The response to Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath, in which about 1,400 people died along the Gulf Coast, raises troubling questions about the nation's ability to react to other threats to domestic security, the draft report says.

"If this is what happens when we have advance warning, we shudder to imagine the consequences when we do not," the draft says, referring to the potential for a terror attack. "Four and a half years after 9/11, America is still not ready for prime time."

( that's what dubya/dichead/Repug leadership will get for ya. )


Democrats declined to appoint members to the committee, raising concerns that the group would produce a whitewash, though several House Democrats participated in committee discussions. After the Republican report was prepared, Democrats praised it in a written response for being comprehensive and detailed, though they complained that it did not hold enough individual officials accountable and continued their call for an independent commission.

What is most disturbing about the hurricane response, the draft report says, is that the entire catastrophe was so easily foreseen * given the weather reports and the precarious position of New Orleans as a below-sea-level city in a major hurricane zone * yet still the response was so flawed.

"It remains difficult to understand how government could respond so ineffectively to a disaster that was anticipated for years, and for which specific dire warnings had been issued for days," the report says. "This crisis was not only predictable, it was predicted."

The homeland security secretary, Michael Chertoff, and President Bush's own staff of White House domestic security advisers drew some of the most scathing criticism in the report, some of the contents of which were first reported Sunday in The Washington Post.

Mr. Chertoff, the draft report says, should have moved two days before Hurricane Katrina hit * when the National Weather Service issued dire predictions about the storm * to set up a special interagency leadership team to ensure that emergency supplies and rescue squads would be in place ahead of the storm. His department also should have done more to help evacuate the Gulf Coast, the report says.

The Homeland Security Department, the draft report says, "failed to anticipate the likely consequences of the storm and procure the buses, boats and aircraft that were ultimately necessary to evacuate the flooded city prior to Katrina's landfall."

These critical prestorm mistakes were only compounded, the draft report says, when the department failed another vital challenge: to determine rapidly whether the storm had breached a major levee.

A staff member from the department's Federal Emergency Management Agency who was on the ground in New Orleans learned on Monday morning, Aug. 29, the day the storm hit, that a major section of the 17th Street Canal levee had collapsed. He confirmed that report by Monday evening when he flew over the collapsed levee in a Coast Guard helicopter.

Between 10:30 p.m. and midnight, news of the finding reached Mr. Chertoff's top deputy, the White House and the Homeland Security Operations Center, or H.S.O.C., which is the Washington-based nerve center for domestic incidents.

The House investigators were told by Kenneth Rapuano, the deputy homeland security adviser to President Bush, that the administration did not immediately act on the report because it had other dispatches suggesting that such a breach might not have occurred.

"We weren't going to repair the levees overnight, and search and rescue was already operating in full gear, regardless," Mr. Rapuano told the committee, according to the draft.

But the draft says the failure to act on this report did apparently slow the response.

"Because the H.S.O.C. failed to confirm the levee breaches on Monday," the draft says, the first federal decision to line up buses needed to evacuate the city did not happen until Tuesday, when the federal disaster relief worker in New Orleans "saw the water reaching the Superdome and realized it would become an island."

Allen Abney, a White House spokesman, said President Bush had "full confidence" in his homeland security team and was involved in the storm response from beginning to end.

"The president is less interested in yesterday and more interested with today and tomorrow," Mr. Abney said, "so that we can be better prepared for next time."

( these fuckers are total liars, shirking all responsibility for their fuckups before the entire world. A 5 years of nothing but fuckups, nobody believes the next 3 years hold anything but more dubya/dickhead/Repug fuckups )

The White House declined to provide copies of e-mail messages or other correspondence by senior advisers to the president, limiting the House investigators' ability to understand fully the White House's role in the response, the report says. But with the information the committee collected, it says, it is clear that the president's office is also to blame.

"The White House failed to de-conflict varying damage assessments and discounted information that ultimately proved accurate," the draft says. "The president's Homeland Security team did not effectively substantiate, analyze and act on the information at its disposal."

( appointing Repug political hacks, operatives, and cronies to key governmental jobs will get you such fuckups. )

The draft's plainly worded criticism extends to the administrations of Governor Blanco, a Democrat, and Mayor Nagin of New Orleans.

Mr. Nagin, the report says, waited far too long to issue a mandatory evacuation order. The city and the state also had no reliable system to ensure that people in nursing homes or hospitals, or the estimated 100,000 residents without transportation, could get out of harm's way.

"Failure of complete evacuation resulted in hundreds of deaths and severe suffering for thousands," the draft report says, adding that individuals who remained in the city deserved part of the blame.

The response to Hurricane Katrina, the report says, ultimately was a failure of leaders to take action.

"If 9/11 was a failure of imagination," it says, "then Katrina was a failure of initiative."

* Copyright 2006<http://www.nytco.com/>The New York Times Company

Darrin
02-13-2006, 03:11 PM
"It remains difficult to understand how government could respond so ineffectively to a disaster that was anticipated for years, and for which specific dire warnings had been issued for days," the report says. "This crisis was not only predictable, it was predicted."

The same could be said about 9/11. We gave the federal government a pass on that, and we should. My point is, maybe that lack of accountability led the Bush administration to believe that it would receive little to no criticism for their delay to act in the face of this crisis.

This entire administration has been reactionary, with exception to their justification for the war in Iraq. They haven't been proactive in preventing the largest series of catastrophies I can remember in my lifetime (Terrorist attacks on 9/11 in New York, Washington, the massive power outage for the Northeast in the summer of 2003, and the Hurricanes in Louisiana and Mississippi in 2005). All of which have been predicted to happen to this nation somewhere between 10-20 years. The only thing that has not transpired is a massive earthquake to hit pacific coast or a possible Tsunami from a fault-line off the coast of Washington.

The National Weather service said this could be the busiest 30 years for Hurricanes we have ever seen. The slight elevation in the Gulf of Mexico (.76 degrees) in comparison to the Atlantic Ocean has been like jet fuel for catergory one and two hurricanes. That condition isn't predicted to go away anytime soon.

It's one thing for science to know, but if administrators aren't listening, how are we going to save lives?

Peter
02-13-2006, 03:20 PM
On the federal level, the Coast Guard was deployed and engaged in search and rescue immediately. The main problem in regards to the Katrina response was that the evacuation was botched. Perhaps more federal assets could've been deployed to that end, but it's not like the state and local authorities had their shit together.

Of course, this is ignoring the decision to base a city below sea level so close to the Gulf, as well as to destroy the coastal marshlands over the better part of a century.

Darrin
02-13-2006, 03:35 PM
On the federal level, the Coast Guard was deployed and engaged in search and rescue immediately. The main problem in regards to the Katrina response was that the evacuation was botched. Perhaps more federal assets could've been deployed to that end, but it's not like the state and local authorities had their shit together.

Of course, this is ignoring the decision to base a city below sea level so close to the Gulf, as well as to destroy the coastal marshlands over the better part of a century.

This is senseless blame-game. We need to get some answers in order to move on - the government fucked up at every level. And while we are holding hearings and controlling news cycles, New Orleans is in for another hurricane season in less than 5 months. We need to take action now or this may be reflection on the first chapter of devastation.

Once again we're playing politics with people's lives.

Dos
02-13-2006, 05:19 PM
The draft's plainly worded criticism extends to the administrations of Governor Blanco, a Democrat, and Mayor Nagin of New Orleans.

Mr. Nagin, the report says, waited far too long to issue a mandatory evacuation order. The city and the state also had no reliable system to ensure that people in nursing homes or hospitals, or the estimated 100,000 residents without transportation, could get out of harm's way.

"Failure of complete evacuation resulted in hundreds of deaths and severe suffering for thousands," the draft report says, adding that individuals who remained in the city deserved part of the blame.

The response to Hurricane Katrina, the report says, ultimately was a failure of leaders to take action.

"If 9/11 was a failure of imagination," it says, "then Katrina was a failure of initiative."

dam everyone is to blame....

Peter
02-13-2006, 05:21 PM
This is senseless blame-game. We need to get some answers in order to move on - the government fucked up at every level. And while we are holding hearings and controlling news cycles, New Orleans is in for another hurricane season in less than 5 months. We need to take action now or this may be reflection on the first chapter of devastation.

Once again we're playing politics with people's lives.


Well, it's reality. There is plenty of blame to go around. I'm not inclined to let the Bush administration off the hook nor crucify it.

Darrin
02-13-2006, 05:23 PM
dam everyone is to blame....

To have a failure this massive, all government has to fail, even if all they fail to do is adequately communicate the need for help that spurs action at the next level.

Yonivore
02-13-2006, 05:27 PM
To have a failure this massive, all government has to fail, even if all they fail to do is adequately communicate the need for help that spurs action at the next level.
How 'bout we blame Katrina?

I mean; isn't it possible there are some disasters for which you can't be adequately prepared? Aren't there variables in all complex circumstances that will frustrate even the best laid plans?

Peter
02-13-2006, 05:33 PM
How 'bout we blame Katrina?

I mean; isn't it possible there are some disasters for which you can't be adequately prepared? Aren't there variables in all complex circumstances that will frustrate even the best laid plans?


That's what I'm feeling. For a storm of that size, you have to have an almost perfect evacuation to begin with. You also have to assume that the Feds could've somehow done better to respond to the situation after the city suffered flooding of a biblical nature. The evac was the domain of the state and local municipalities. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that they could've pulled off a perfect evac, just as I don't believe the Feds could've offered much more in the immediate aftermath than deploying the Coast Guard to start search and rescue ops. It's a sad story, but the real poor decisions were made long ago.

ChumpDumper
02-13-2006, 05:48 PM
It's a fair cop.

God's to blame.

Peter
02-13-2006, 05:55 PM
I'd go with building a city 12 feet below sea level on the Gulf Coast.

SA210
02-13-2006, 06:58 PM
Nice way to get away from the fact that Bush knew the levees broke and denied it.

Darrin
02-13-2006, 07:03 PM
How 'bout we blame Katrina?

I mean; isn't it possible there are some disasters for which you can't be adequately prepared? Aren't there variables in all complex circumstances that will frustrate even the best laid plans?

We don't hold all dominion over nature, and that's not something I am saying. But with the levees not being re-inforced with a city below sea level, with a government that was slow to respond to predicted outcomes from this storm, the talk went from heroes to slow-moving beaucracy.

For instance, we don't ravage the NYFD for not knowing that the fire was too hot in towers one and two, and it would melt the outer metal support structure, collapsing the buildings of the Trade Center.

But when a natural disaster happens and our guys don't immediately respond, that means when time is precious, we failed to act. We had advanced warnings - both in gaming out scenarios years ahead of time, and what Katrina was going to do specificially. An act of nature or God is unpredictable. In the words of that recent report, this wasn't only predictable, it was predicted.

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-13-2006, 07:58 PM
Nice way to get away from the fact that Bush knew the levees broke and denied it.

Same old liberal bullshit. Who gives a fuck if he did know? What's he going to do? Wave a magic fucking wand and plug the levees?

One of my roommates in college was from NO. We talked about it when it happened - he said everyone in that town talked about and knew what would happen if a storm like this hit, and that the only way to ensure you survived was to get the fuck out.

It's just ignorant, idiotic, and nothing more than partisan bullshit politics to be on this witch hunt to pin it all on Bush.

All parts of the government, from Nagin to the governor bitch right on up the food chain. There were democratic leaders of the city, state, as well as their legislative deligation to D.C. that all had their heads in the fucking sand on it, then said "oh shit I need to blame someone for my fuckup" after the fact.

Everyone fucked up from local to federal, democrat and republican, and that's pretty much where it should stop in the blame game.

Grow up and knock off the pussy ass partisan political bullshit and get on with your lives.

SA210
02-13-2006, 08:17 PM
Same old liberal bullshit. Who gives a fuck if he did know?
Many care. HE LIED that he didn't know. Yes Aggie, he lied,
and I don't care for your weak rebuttals about, it's no suprise that politicians lie. It's weak and it's the best you can do.

I don't care for your weak arguements of what could he do about it, just like the 7 minutes your president sat their with the school children when he was told America was under attack and he choked and sat there like Forrest Gump.

Many care. Quit spinning. He lied, he knew about it and he lied about it.
The ONE that was to bring honor and integrity to the White House. How's that for you?

You were also wrong about Cindy Cheehan. She broke NO law, but you continued to act like there was something there even after you knew the truth. Move on, your rants do you no good.

Go start another Bennet Salvatore thread.

Murphy
02-13-2006, 08:21 PM
School Bus Nagin was informed two days before the hurricane hit, but didn't follow the Hurricane Evacuation plan which called for School vehicles to be used for transportation if personal cars weren't sufficient. The School Bus yards were less than 5 miles away from the superdome, with one less than one mile away which had roughly 146 buses. If all school buses were used, roughly 20,000 people could have been evacuated.

SA210
02-13-2006, 08:24 PM
Man, you guys are still spinning the topic?

The fact of the matter is,
Bush knew the levees broke that night and denied that fact.

Plain and simple. There is alot wrong with that.

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-13-2006, 11:08 PM
You were also wrong about Cindy Cheehan. She broke NO law, but you continued to act like there was something there even after you knew the truth.

That's right. Any American who hangs out with Chavez while he takes about taking the wealth of America and dispersing it to the rest of the world after getting rid of us should be recognized for the great "patriot" she is.

:rolleyes

gtownspur
02-13-2006, 11:13 PM
That's right. Any American who hangs out with Chavez while he takes about taking the wealth of America and dispersing it to the rest of the world after getting rid of us should be recognized for the great "patriot" she is.

:rolleyes


You must be talking about SA210..

George W Bush
02-13-2006, 11:39 PM
So what if I knew about them levees,
that don't mean I have to admit it.

That's the W way :tu

gtownspur
02-14-2006, 12:00 PM
So what if I knew about them levees,
that don't mean I have to admit it.

That's the W way :tu


Go get laid!

xrayzebra
02-14-2006, 03:26 PM
A question. How come NO and La leadership hasn't fixed the problem of even
smallest detail in NO for their citizens. I thought all them dimm-o-craps had
all the answers. It's been six months. Do I as a taxpayer have to keep paying
the tab for all those citizens. Texas, Mississippi and Alabama don't seem to be
having the same problem.

Mr Dio
02-14-2006, 09:25 PM
Go get laid!


He will be as soon as I untie your 1-eyed pirate of a mom. :lol

gtownspur
02-15-2006, 02:59 AM
I bet you both cant wait till she rips you a new asshole with her rhinocerous strap on.

after that, both of you boys will duke it out for who can swallow the biggest meat swords amongst each other.

You'll be Sir Lance-me-Lot, and GW will be Squire Dick Squirts, and you'll have your merry men and all the bukkake party hats to impart.

Alias George is known to be a straight swallower,

but they call Mr.Dio a finger painter,..his face being the cum Canvas.,

Mr Dio
02-15-2006, 11:18 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My little Gaytown sure has been using my material more & more. Signs of admitting defeat? :lol

Everyone knows that Gaytown is Dio's Bukkake Pivot BITCH. :lmao

:owned