Manu Ginobili is the fucking truth!!!

[exstatic]

:fro

[Buddy Holly]

What did he do? :smokin

[Brutalis]

AMEN

[Das Texan]

ginobili is getting warmed up for the playoffs.

[SAtown]

GINNNNOOOOOOOOOOOBILIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!! Incredible performance in the clutch. ABC (and ESPN, fans of every other team, and fans of this team who put Ginobili in the "slump" category) can STFU now. Thanks Manu

GOOOOO SPURS GOOOOOO!

[exstatic]

I LOVED that LOOONG three pointer that he stuck over Jack. :lol

[Buddy Holly]

That three was pure fucking sickness.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But if Sparky/Marcus and others had their way, we would have never given him the ball and instead watched Duncan go 5-25 and lead us to a loss today.

[Spurminator]

If Aggie had his way this would be 4DownTalk.com

[Buddy Holly]

Manu was clutch at the line.

[ChumpDumper]

It's nice to have options.

Very nice indeed.

[Solid D]

Bowen was pretty clutch too with those two leaners he hit, one with his legs kicking out like Jordan! :lol

Were there 3 Manus out there in the last couple of minutes?

[IcemanCometh]

aggy complained when jordan got too many shots

[ducks]

Manu This Is How We Expect You To Play

[Buddy Holly]

Bowen kicked ass too. Can't forget him, like Solid said.

[nkdlunch]

Manu has iron balls

[exstatic]

Bowen was pretty clutch too with those two leaners he hit, one with his legs kicking out like Jordan! :lol

Were there 3 Manus out there in the last couple of minutes?

Bowen was great and I'll bet Indy thought there were 3 or even 4 Manus out there. :rollin

[exstatic]

Manu has iron balls

Unlike a certain NJ shooting guard's raisin sized ones....

[T Park]

If Aggie had his way this would be 4DownTalk.com

lol

aint that the fuckin truth....

[Nikos]

Bowen and Manu did well down the stretch. I can see why they might have tried going to TD though when Manu had like 3-4 turnovers in the second half. But then again I didn't see most of those turnovers (considering ABC had the Wizz game on).

Were Manu's TO's from forcing the drive off the pick (overpenetrating)?

[TwoHandJam]

Manu willed us to victory no doubt about it. The Spurs got away with one today. They've got to learn from this narrow escape if they're going to continue the streak. We've got some tough games coming up to finish off the road trip.

[WalterBenitez]

Unlike a certain NJ shooting guard's raisin sized ones....:oops Who are you talkin' about??

:lmao

[Spurologist]

Bowen was pretty clutch too with those two leaners he hit, one with his legs kicking out like Jordan! :lol

:lol Bruce lee at it again.

[rayray2k8]

well i guess everyone is back on the fucking bandwagon... :rolleyes

[baseline bum]

What a spectacular win. Who would have guessed 6 years ago that our #56 pick would become the best player on a championship team?

[T Park]

well i guess everyone is back on the fucking bandwagon

The Spurs, or Ginobili bandwagon???

I don't think anyones been off of either one.

[exstatic]

well i guess everyone is back on the fucking bandwagon... :rolleyes
Get over yourself. Manu has NOT been as good this year because of his health issues. It's good that they appear to be behind him, because our backup SGs suck.

[ALVAREZ6]

man, I wish ABC showed this game across the nations...

[SAGambler]

Bowen kicked ass too. Can't forget him, like Solid said.

And let's don't forget all those offensive rebounds and put backs by Nazr.. Rest of the bench took the day off...

[Rick Von Braun]

Manu's line in the last two minutes:

13 pts, 2-2 FG, 8-8 FT, 1-1 3PFG (the 30 feet 3 pointer)

The last 2 minutes were incredible and very exciting...

Kudos to Bruce freaking Bowen as well for hitting those 2 jumpers.

[rayray2k8]

Get over yourself. Manu has NOT been as good this year because of his health issues. It's good that they appear to be behind him, because our backup SGs suck.
I was referring to the spurs you ass.

[2centsworth]

Total team effort. In the forth Nick hit an important jumper, Tony finished at the rim to cut the lead to two, Bowen carried the spurs until Manu brought home the victory. Also, Tim was fantastic on the boards and on Defense.

Finley still sucks 4 out of 5 games.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What a spectacular win. Who would have guessed 6 years ago that our #56 pick would become the best player on a championship team?


What are you talking about? This team is made up of Duncan and 12 scrubs. He's the only guy we should run plays for or expect to score [/homers]

[manu]

We Should Come Up With A Nickname For Manu,
"truth" Is Already Taken By Gay Pierce
HOW ABOUT: "the wirling dervish"
But Wow He Was God Today!!! Just Wow! Amazing Ginobili!

[T Park]

This team is made up of Duncan and 12 scrubs. He's the only guy we should run plays for or expect to score [/homers]


Now your just making shit up.

[WalterBenitez]

When is the next Spurs' game, Manu and some others need to rest

[Dre_7]

What are you talking about? This team is made up of Duncan and 12 scrubs. He's the only guy we should run plays for or expect to score [/homers]

Who said that??

[2centsworth]

We Should Come Up With A Nickname For Manu,
"truth" Is Already Taken By Gay Pierce
HOW about: "the wirling dervish"
But Wow He Was God Today!!! Just Wow! Amazing Ginobili!

I like Charles Barkley's chant the best. GINOBLEEEEEEEEE!

[boutons_]

do you have Internet access?

http://www.nba.com/spurs/schedule/

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Am I? My criticism earlier today was that we spent the first 8 minutes of the fourth quarter racking up a 'spectacular' 10 points going exclusively to Tim, who was what? 5-15.

Then we let Manu do his thing and suddenly we come up with 17 points in 3 and a half minutes.

Yet, when I point out Duncan is playing like shit, everyone comes to his defense with all the "he's the MVP", "why does AHF hate Tim Duncan", etc. bullshit.

I don't hate Tim. The guy is the best player in the league. I just wish people could recognize when he's having a subpar game and not take offense at the suggestion someone else on this team have a play run for them.

Christ, Duncan is battling the flu and a bum wheel right now, it's amazing he's even out there. He was the difference in the end defensively. I just want to see Pop, as well as the resident forum homers, recognize that even Tim is human and not be so offended with the suggestion of running plays for other Spurs besides Tim.

Manu absolutely destroyed Indy with the pick and roll the last couple of minutes, culminating with him fouling out Pollard.

A suggestion that we run plays for Manu, Parker, et. al shouldn't be taken on this site like some kind of personal hate on Tim Duncan. It's not.

[Horry For 3!]

Manu owned the Pacers in the 4th :smokin

[Manu4Three]

What are you talking about? This team is made up of Duncan and 12 scrubs. He's the only guy we should run plays for or expect to score [/homers]

I don't think Manu been just one more player in this team. Same for Tony.

[2centsworth]

Am I? My criticism earlier today was that we spent the first 8 minutes of the fourth quarter racking up a 'spectacular' 10 points going exclusively to Tim, who was what? 5-15.

Then we let Manu do his thing and suddenly we come up with 17 points in 3 and a half minutes.

Yet, when I point out Duncan is playing like shit, everyone comes to his defense with all the "he's the MVP", "why does AHF hate Tim Duncan", etc. bullshit.

I don't hate Tim. The guy is the best player in the league. I just wish people could recognize when he's having a subpar game and not take offense at the suggestion someone else on this team have a play run for them.

Christ, Duncan is battling the flu and a bum wheel right now, it's amazing he's even out there. He was the difference in the end defensively. I just want to see Pop, as well as the resident forum homers, recognize that even Tim is human and not be so offended with the suggestion of running plays for other Spurs besides Tim.

Manu absolutely destroyed Indy with the pick and roll the last couple of minutes, culminating with him fouling out Pollard.

A suggestion that we run plays for Manu, Parker, et. al shouldn't be taken on this site like some kind of personal hate on Tim Duncan. It's not.Tim was ok but played more like his evil twin Tim Bumkin.

[Phenomanul]

Tim was ok but played more like his evil twin Tim Bumkin.
:lol :lol

[1Parker1]

Damn, I missed a good game it seems. FREAKING ABC. They were just recapping that game, and Pippen said Manu should have been in Houston this year also, point out the Spurs have been 9-0 since he came back from his anke injury.

[exstatic]

I was referring to the spurs you ass.
And we're supposed to know this in a thread about Manu, how? Hijacker...

[SouthernFried]

If POP knew had to design an offense, we wouldn't have to rely on Manu doing it all alone. Duncan couldn't hit shit, and Pop just kept Iso'ing him. No movement at all when Timmy had the ball as well.

Manu's heroic's saved Pop's ass.

You wanna watch a Pure team offensive scheme...watch Detroit. Pop knows Team Defense, and is seriously lacking on Team offense. And that is what's gonna kill us if we go against Detroit in the Finals. Cuz they can do it on both ends.

[HB22inSA]

point out the Spurs have been 9-0 since he came back from his anke injury.
Actually, no.

Spurs are 9-0 in their last 9 games, but only 7-0 since Manu came back.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Damn, I missed a good game it seems.

So you didn't even watch the game yet fet compelled to call me out in the other thread about my criticism of the offensive game plan today?

That's rich.

[1Parker1]

So you didn't even watch the game yet fet compelled to call me out in the other thread about my criticism of the offensive game plan today?

That's rich.


I don't need to watch the game to understand your criticism. It's the same old broken record every time.

AHF, grow the fuck up. I'm not even talking to you and as I said in the other thread, it's really not worth my time arguing with you. You are really immature sometimes.

[1Parker1]

Actually, no.

Spurs are 9-0 in their last 9 games, but only 7-0 since Manu came back.

:lol You're right. Well, I think his point was that Spurs have gone undefeated since Manu has been back and that the Spurs offense looks completely different out there when he's in the lineup.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Immaturity is not watching a game, and responding to criticism of our offense today with "but Pop has three rings, that's more than you, STFU."

Fucking put me on ignore and get it over with already. There are other people, both in the nagging thread as well as the game blog, criticizing Pop. So go run along and tell them they're idiots too, just to be consistent.

I'm sorry you're still pissed at me calling out Tony last year when he was sucking, that's in the past, I suggest you let it go.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

That three was pure fucking sickness.

haha for once buddy holly, i agree 100% :lol

[T Park]

Pop knows Team Defense, and is seriously lacking on Team offense. And that is what's gonna kill us if we go against Detroit in the Finals.

Killed us last year, no question.



Fucking put me on ignore and get it over with already. There are other people, both in the nagging thread as well as the game blog, criticizing Pop. So go run along and tell them they're idiots too, just to be consistent.

I'm sorry you're still pissed at me calling out Tony last year when he was sucking, that's in the past, I suggest you let it go.


three words for ol sunshine's mood today.

Heavy
Flow
Day

[1Parker1]

I'm sorry you're still pissed at me calling out Tony last year when he was sucking, that's in the past, I suggest you let it go.

:wtf :pctoss

Ok, I'm officially putting you on ignore. I can't deal with you anymore.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Killed us last year, no question.

You act like we rolled Detroit. If it weren't for Horry being one of the all-time clutchest mofos of all time, we would have lost that series.


three words for ol sunshine's mood today.

Heavy
Flow
Day

More like interview with MS in three days and lots to prepare for day. :spin

[LilMissSPURfect]

Manu-ficient!

[SouthernFried]

Killed us last year, no question.

If you hadn't noticed...Detroits Offense has sorta improved under Flip. It's a freakin' machine now.

Ours is still last years 1 on 1 scheme.

And, last year...is last year. Time to move on.

[T Park]

You act like we rolled Detroit.

we won that series didn't we??

Save a horrible shooting night from the team, missing lots of open shots in game 6,

the Spurs win in 6.

Same as the Nets.

They won in 7.

It was tough.

But they didn't blow us out.

[T Park]

Offense has sorta improved under Flip

Alert me in May if that offense is still the same.

Flipper has a tendancy for his old collar to tighten and make mistakes.


But, have all the faith you want in Flip Saunders.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

we won that series didn't we??

Again, if it weren't for Horry being one of the clutchest fuckers of all time, we wouldn't have. How many 25 point fourth quarter/OTs does he have left to bail us out?

[SouthernFried]

Actually, I could give a shit about Flip.

I would like to see better offensive sets from Pop.

[spurs=bling]

Manu is the man!!!!

Lets thank God for Manu Ginobili

[2centsworth]

we won that series didn't we??

Save a horrible shooting night from the team, missing lots of open shots in game 6,

the Spurs win in 6.

Same as the Nets.

They won in 7.

It was tough.

But they didn't blow us out.

how can you of all people not respect Detroit. They were so close to beating the spurs that you bailed on the Spurs and predicted a Detroit victory.

[jcrod]

It's nice to have options.

Very nice indeed.


Having 3 legit options is awsome.

[ajh18]

You act like we rolled Detroit. If it weren't for Horry being one of the all-time clutchest mofos of all time, we would have lost that series.

I'm getting tired of hearing this argument over and over. Yes, without Horry, we would have lost that series. Without Parker, or Manu, or Duncan, or Bowen, we would have lost that series. Hell, if Detroit hadnt had any of their starters, or for that matter McDysse, who gave us all sorts of trouble, the series wouldnt have gone as long as it did. It's a team game, and without the performances of any of the key members of those teams, neither SA nor Detroit would have been as good as they were. Horry did what he was signed to do. That isnt a bail out, that's his job as a member of the team.

[Parkersgirl9]

I bet you Charles barkley liked this game.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

that's his job as a member of the team.

His job is to bail us out when Duncan crawls into the fetal position?

[2centsworth]

His job is to bail us out when Duncan crawls into the fetal position?spurs lose game 5 there's a chance game 6 goes the spurs way. I thought they played like the series was in the bag during game 6. Nevertheless, game 5 was the least horry could do for laying an egg agains the lakers the year before:lol .

Also, the injury to Manu didn't help either.

[exstatic]

In the playoffs, you usually need one shot to go in or go out for your opponents on the way to the ring.
99 - Elliott
03 - Horry misses in game 5 WCF
05 - Horry makes in game 5 of the NBAF

Now for the other side :
04 - Fisher makes for LA in game 5 of the series.

Tim went fetal in game 5? He had 26/19. I'd say he did his part.

[aaronstampler]

Manu has iron balls

perhaps that explains why he hasn't been able to really jump the whole year. I hope his feet and ankles heal up eventually, so he'll be able to crunk some down on people. As well as he's playing right now, his explosiveness is probably 75% at best.

[2centsworth]

Tim went fetal in game 5? He had 26/19. I'd say he did his part.
Larry Bird used to say it's easy to do it the first three quarters but the great ones deliver down the stretch. Not calling Tim a choke, but he fell apart that last minute of the 4th and the entire OT period. The reverse was Horry who stunk the 1st 3 quarters and balled when it counted.

[2centsworth]

perhaps that explains why he hasn't been able to really jump the whole year. I hope his feet and ankles heal up eventually, so he'll be able to crunk some down on people. As well as he's playing right now, his explosiveness is probably 75% at best.
agreed, but Tony Parker is balling and allowing Manu to heal.

[exstatic]

perhaps that explains why he hasn't been able to really jump the whole year. I hope his feet and ankles heal up eventually, so he'll be able to crunk some down on people. As well as he's playing right now, his explosiveness is probably 75% at best.

Actually, he's supposedly healed, but hesitant to miss more time by landing on someone again. Dunks are overrated.

[T Park]

Any team would give their left nut for a forward to bring 26 and 19 in game 5 of the Finals, and the fuckfaces on this forum look down on it.

Typical.

[exstatic]

Larry Bird used to say it's easy to do it the first three quarters but the great ones deliver down the stretch. Not calling Tim a choke, but he fell apart that last minute of the 4th and the entire OT period. The reverse was Horry who stunk the 1st 3 quarters and balled when it counted.

It's a team game, AND it's not like Tim always stinks late. I would say that was the exception.

If Fish doesn't hit .4, Tim's uber-clutch long moving jumper wins that game, for example.

[2centsworth]

It's a team game, AND it's not like Tim always stinks late. I would say that was the exception.

If Fish doesn't hit .4, Tim's uber-clutch long moving jumper wins that game, for example.
totally, tim can be super clutch. Note game 6 against the lakers in '03. I'm just saying he fell apart in game 5.

[TDMVPDPOY]

oi i just hop on got class in 20mins,did gino turned the pacers into water

[aaronstampler]

Actually, he's supposedly healed, but hesitant to miss more time by landing on someone again. Dunks are overrated.


There is no way he's fully healed. He can't be more than 80%, tops. If he was worried about landing on people, he should go for dunks, so he can protect himself by hanging on the rim if people are underneath. He's a lot more likely to land wrong by shooting awkward teardrops a la Tony.

I'm not knocking Manu's game at all, he's my favorite player, and he was awesome today, but watching him last year and this year, he's not nearly as explosive. The difference this year is that his shooting is more consistent, though. His midrange game is a lot better, it's not all layups and 3s.

But you could tell his legs aren't right, because he's not trying to rebound at all anymore.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tim went fetal in game 5? He had 26/19. I'd say he did his part.

How much of that came in the fourth?

[5ToolMan]

how can you of all people not respect Detroit. They were so close to beating the spurs that you bailed on the Spurs and predicted a Detroit victory.

It is not about not respecting Detroit. The question is, how can "you people" not respect San Antonio. Stop with the lame woulda-coulda-shouda. The Spurs made more plays than Detroit and won a tough series. End of Story.

As for TPark bailing, perhaps he was as foolins last year as you sound this year. At least he learned his lesson.

Your schooling has started with the current streak, and will continue as the Spurs roll in June.

[2centsworth]

It is not about not respecting Detroit. The question is, how can "you people" not respect San Antonio. Stop with the lame woulda-coulda-shouda. The Spurs made more plays than Detroit and won a tough series. End of Story.

As for TPark bailing, perhaps he was as foolins last year as you sound this year. At least he learned his lesson.

Your schooling has started with the current streak, and will continue as the Spurs roll in June.
Here's a hint, read the thread before responding. Spurs get mad love on this site. Just most spurs fans have a brain and respect detroit.

[ajh18]

His job is to bail us out when Duncan crawls into the fetal position?

His job is to hit the open three at the end of the game. Tim's job is to make sure we have a chance for SOMEONE, him or anyone else, to do that.

[smeagol]

Manu is the Truth? . . . that's not what sequ told me! :lol

[exstatic]

His job is to hit the open three at the end of the game. Tim's job is to make sure we have a chance for SOMEONE, him or anyone else, to do that.
Nail, head, bang.

[exstatic]

Manu is the Truth? . . . that's not what sequ told me! :lol
Sequ worships at the Church of the Often Injured Gangsta Wannabe.

[2centsworth]

His job is to hit the open three at the end of the game. Tim's job is to make sure we have a chance for SOMEONE, him or anyone else, to do that.hitting that 3 at the end of the game is a lot harder than you think. Ask Tim who missed a one footer at the end of regulation to win. But again it sounds like I'm downing Tim which I'm not. Tim Duncan is a Monster.

[T Park]

His job is to hit the open three at the end of the game. Tim's job is to make sure we have a chance for SOMEONE, him or anyone else, to do that

Thank you.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.


(sits down and beathes out heavily)

[Amuseddaysleeper]

the long he dropped 3 was fantastic

you mean "the long 3 he dropped was fantastic"

and 2cents Tim was a monster

not "is" a monster


it'll be a loooooong time before he becomes a "monster" again

[2centsworth]

you mean "the long 3 he dropped was fantastic"

and 2cents Tim was a monster

not "is" a monster


it'll be a loooooong time before he becomes a "monster" again
grammer smack because the basketball takes aren't good enough. Need a job? I'm looking for an editor. Seriously, PM me.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

grammer smack because the basketball takes aren't good enough. Need a job? I'm looking for an editor. Seriously, PM me.

will do captain

i'm just trying to keep the board "professional"

[2centsworth]

will do captain

i'm just trying to keep the board "professional"
you work for free too! Unfortunately I can keep you very busy.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

haha im just messin 2cents

i try to correct everyone's grammar even though mines leaves a lot to be desired

my basketball and spurs knowledge on the hand........actually nevermind :spin

[SequSpur]

Manu is the Truth about every 5th game.

[leemajors]

the long he dropped 3 was fantastic

shouldn't you be pissed duncan didn't have 30/15?

[Peter]

No TD and the Spurs are 20-30 right now, on the outside of the playoff picture looking in and hoping to get hot, just like every other scrub team. Not utilizing the best low post threat in the game is sheer stupidity, not only for the lack of TD's production but also for the lack of the myriad opportunities he creates for his teammates. Leave it to an Aggie to complain about putting the rock in TD's hands on the low block.

[George W Bush]

Shut up Peter, I almost read your work in the Bible but you had no piktures.
I'm very upset about that.

God Bless America :tu

[batman2883]

manu is the best player in the NBA but i thought paul pierce was the truth

[Peter]

Nah, TD is the best player in the L. TD has made both TP and Manu All-Stars.

[2centsworth]

Nah, TD is the best player in the L. TD has made both TP and Manu All-Stars.
Both those guys would be all-stars without TD as long as Tony had Pop.

[smeagol]

Nah, TD is the best player in the L. TD has made both TP and Manu All-Stars.
MB, the more you change your screen name, the more stupid you become.

[FromWayDowntown]

MB, the more you change your screen name, the more stupid you become.

How so? Do you honestly believe that Manu and Tony don't owe any of their NBA success to Tim Duncan? Are you saying that if Manu and Tony were playing together in, say, Atlanta, that they'd be all-stars and the Hawks would be title contenders? Does anyone think that if Pop were coaching, say, the Knicks right now (and didn't have Tim Duncan) that the Knicks would be a solid playoff team?

Pop has basically admitted that his success is almost entirely a product of Tim Duncan's greatness; in fact, Pop has said that when Tim retires from playing, he'll retire from coaching. Was he joking? I doubt it. Tim makes up for some of Pop's shortcomings as a coach. And if you can't see that Pop has some shortcomings (predictability being the primary among those), I don't think you're watching very closely. The Spurs often can overcome those shortcomings because they are physically talented and properly constructed to do the things that make the broader system work. But, ultimately, Pop is an organizer, a talent evaluator, and a facilitator -- he shows his greatest strength as a coach when he realizes that there are just times he needs to get the hell out of the way and let the guys work the system.

There's a symbiosis with the Spurs, but the host in that relationship is Tim Duncan -- no Tim, no titles. And that's been proven by history; the only constants in the Spurs title runs are Pop and Tim, and, again, Pop attributes his successes to Timmy. Change the roster around #21 and the Spurs still contend. Take #21 out of the mix for a while, and the Spurs are slightly above-average, at best.

Pop has rings and awards and acclaim, but in reality, those are the products of his understanding that he's got a once-in-a-lifetime superstar on his roster. Manu and Tony have been perfectly willing to admit that Tim is a significant factor in their successes as NBA players -- that Timmy helps to make them all-stars. Certainly, they've put in a ton of hard work to make great things happen for themselves and they are to be commended for that. They're among my favorite players in the NBA. But, in my opinion, it's Timmy's presence that puts them over the top on a season-long basis and makes them the high-profile players that they have become.

[1Parker1]

How so? Do you honestly believe that Manu and Tony don't owe any of their NBA success to Tim Duncan? Are you saying that if Manu and Tony were playing together in, say, Atlanta, that they'd be all-stars and the Hawks would be title contenders? Does anyone think that if Pop were coaching, say, the Knicks right now (and didn't have Tim Duncan) that the Knicks would be a solid playoff team?

Pop has basically admitted that his success is almost entirely a product of Tim Duncan's greatness; in fact, Pop has said that when Tim retires from playing, he'll retire from coaching. Was he joking? I doubt it. Tim makes up for some of Pop's shortcomings as a coach. And if you can't see that Pop has some shortcomings (predictability being the primary among those), I don't think you're watching very closely. The Spurs often can overcome those shortcomings because they are physically talented and properly constructed to do the things that make the broader system work. But, ultimately, Pop is an organizer, a talent evaluator, and a facilitator -- he shows his greatest strength as a coach when he realizes that there are just times he needs to get the hell out of the way and let the guys work the system.

There's a symbiosis with the Spurs, but the host in that relationship is Tim Duncan -- no Tim, no titles. And that's been proven by history; the only constants in the Spurs title runs are Pop and Tim, and, again, Pop attributes his successes to Timmy. Change the roster around #21 and the Spurs still contend. Take #21 out of the mix for a while, and the Spurs are slightly above-average, at best.

Pop has rings and awards and acclaim, but in reality, those are the products of his understanding that he's got a once-in-a-lifetime superstar on his roster. Manu and Tony have been perfectly willing to admit that Tim is a significant factor in their successes as NBA players -- that Timmy helps to make them all-stars. Certainly, they've put in a ton of hard work to make great things happen for themselves and they are to be commended for that. They're among my favorite players in the NBA. But, in my opinion, it's Timmy's presence that puts them over the top on a season-long basis and makes them the high-profile players that they have become.


:tu Very well said. I too don't think Manu or Tony would be All-Stars if it weren't for Tim Duncan. On the flip side though, I do think Pop has had a big influence in the team's success. He has helped made the team what it is today...sure the Spurs would still be contenders if they still had Tim Duncan, but do you think they would have won as many rings?

Pop has been a huge influence on Manu and Tony becoming the players they are today and his defense first approach and overall team ethic that he has helped build has been just as huge a factor in the Spurs success.

[Sportman]

i think that tony, manu and tim need at each other to have achieved all this. People this is a TEAM, REMEMBER IT. Without a team, spurs haven´t won anything and Tim is the main KEY inside this team, all people dont have to forget that.

[zeleni]

If you say Spurs and Pop without TD would be just a slightly above average, you do not know what you are saying. TD is spiritus movens, OK, but this team is not that bad.

Rasho and Nazr, with Marks and Horry, with TP and Beno, with Manu and Bowen, with Finley and NVE... No, Spurs are above average. And not just slightly above. The only reason you could say something as propostrous as this is, that this players would never stay/come in San Antonio or take a paycut to win more championship.

TD and Pop lead each other. I can also say that TD would not have TP and Manu without Pop ways of guiding this ship along. I can even say Spurs would lose if RC Buford got lost.

TD is the greatest team player around. And he wins games. Ave Triumphiator!

[Peter]

You take away TD from TP and you are left with a speedy guard with a shaky J who has a hard time getting into the paint (where most of his offense comes from) since he doesn't have the best player in the game drawing the attention of the opposing D.

As for Ginobili, it's the same basic concept. No TD and an opponent's D can focus on shutting him down. The easiest way is to simply double him and force him to give up the rock.

Ginobili's All-Star berth last season was due in no small part to his postseason rep. Take that away, which is not hard to do if you are projecting where a Spurs team w/o Duncan would be in the L, and he's got what?

Take TD away and a marginal offensive talent like Bowen doesn't get the chance to hit 2 crucial late jumpers yesterday.

Duncan remains the focal point of opposing defenses. Opponents look to force another Spur to beat them, which is why Manu gets to play the late game hero. Sooner or later the nabobs of this forum will figure it out.

[Peter]

In addition, a significant number of Manu's scores come after the rock is thrown in to TD. A not so small part of the reason Pop goes to 4-Down so often in the 4th, even to the dismay of the resident forum idiot.

I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp. If you need an illustration, take a look at the Lakers w/Shaq and post-Shaq. With Shaq, the Lakers win 3 of 4 NBA Finals. Without him, they don't taste the postseason, even with the great scoring swingman leading the way.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp. If you need an illustration, take a look at the Lakers w/Shaq and post-Shaq. With Shaq, the Lakers win 3 of 4 NBA Finals.

That, or Spurs @ Toronto, February 8, 2006.

[Peter]

That, or Spurs @ Toronto, February 8, 2006.


I was just thinking about that. Take away TD and the Spurs are lucky to beat a Toronto who just gave up their #1 option in a trade.

[emveepee]

Unlike a certain NJ shooting guard's raisin sized ones....

Who? The Olympic Super Scrub? :smokin

[Sportman]

That´s stupid because in this way i could say spurs was defeated by atlanta because manu was not on the court........that´s no sense, all people know about the role each spurs´players have but you cant say that, Tim is the key inside this team but without manu spurs hadnt won the last nba finals, COME ON!!!!

[FromWayDowntown]

That´s stupid because in this way i could say spurs was defeated by atlanta because manu was not on the court........that´s no sense, all people know about the role each spurs´players have but you cant say that, Tim is the key inside this team but without manu spurs hadnt won the last nba finals, COME ON!!!!

But without Tim, the Spurs wouldn't have been IN the NBA Finals.

[Peter]

Without TD the Spurs aren't in the Finals. Without TD on the court drawing the attention of the opposing D, Manu isn't able to play the late game hero.

[Sportman]

But without Tim, the Spurs wouldn't have been IN the NBA Finals.

For that reason this is a TEAM, all people have to do his job for achieving

[FromWayDowntown]

The Church of Manu and the Church of Tony must have their meetings at the Temple of Timmy, since this whole thing starts and ends with #21.

I appreciate all of the Church of Manu and Church of Tony adherents and those who want to prop Manu and Tony as major players and stars. Those guys deserve all kinds of praise for their play. They've been vital to the Spurs' successes and their improvements from year-to-year have allowed the Spurs to remain contenders. But does anyone truly believe that the Spurs would be remotely considered a title contender if Timmy retired tomorrow? Seriously.

[Sportman]

I appreciate all of the Church of Manu and Church of Tony adherents and those who want to prop Manu and Tony as major players and stars. Those guys deserve all kinds of praise for their play. They've been vital to the Spurs' successes and their improvements from year-to-year have allowed the Spurs to remain contenders. But does anyone truly believe that the Spurs would be remotely considered a title contender if Timmy retired tomorrow? Seriously.

I agree with that, absolutly!!.........TIM has been always THE MAN!!

[FromWayDowntown]

For that reason this is a TEAM, all people have to do his job for achieving

I don't think anyone is disputing that it's a team effort. But in the NBA, teams tend to reach the Finals and win championships either when they have a dominant player accompanied by several good sidekicks or when they have a great starting lineup full of multi-talented players. The Spurs don't have that kind of starting lineup on a talent-for-talent basis. What makes the Spurs starting lineup appear so talented -- and what allows the Spurs to win consistently -- is the presence of Tim Duncan and his ability to elevate the play of his teammates to championship levels. If Tim was all about Tim, the Spurs likely wouldn't be as good as they are. But, by the same token, if Tim wasn't as good as he is, the Spurs also likely wouldn't be as good as they are.

[nkdlunch]

But does anyone truly believe that the Spurs would be remotely considered a title contender if Timmy retired tomorrow? Seriously.


no shit sherlock. where in this thread someone made that claim?

[FromWayDowntown]

no shit sherlock. where in this thread someone made that claim?

Well, there was the "Spurs won the Finals because of Manu" claim; and I argued that without Tim, the Spurs would be, at best, slightly above-average, only to be told that I wasn't paying attention if I believed that. Is that good enough for you?

[bdubya]

What did he do? :smokin

If I'm reading the title right, he got it on with Paul Pierce. Eeewwww.....

[Sportman]

I agree with your point, TIM has been always the best player of this TEAM, but i continue saying that without manu spurs couldnt have got the last championship.

[austinfan]

Yes, Tim is the bedrock of the Spurs, and without him, we wouldn't have won any of the championships we have. Having said that, no individual player, even Duncan, has 100% complete mastery of the game, and in Duncan's case, he needs others to light a fire under him when he gets in a rut or down on himself or too "in his head" (I know exactly what that feels like, so I'm not criticizing that quality in him, just saying that it exists), and that's where Manu comes in. He's got that x factor that communicates itself to the other players and motivates them and gets them fired up for the game. In this respect, I think Timmy and Manu are the perfect complement to each other: Tim is the rock-solid, dependable team member who will always be consistent; Manu is the crazy intangibles guy who provides that extra jolt of unpredictability. They're both great, but the sum total of their partnership (and not leaving out the others Spurs either) is greater than the parts of it.

[Peter]

Problem is, TD's won a title without Manu.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Without TD the Spurs aren't in the Finals. Without TD on the court drawing the attention of the opposing D, Manu isn't able to play the late game hero.He's played the late game hero without TD plenty of times so don't give me that crap! I think its bullshit. Perhaps if TP and Manu hadn't come to the Spurs they wouldn't have won 2 championships, but I'm willing to bet neither would Duncan. The Spurs' success is due to all 3 of them, perhaps a little more so in the case of Duncan since he was a big part of the 1999 championship. In fact, I would add Bruce Bowen to that list, I think he's an extremely important factor on this team.

Now quit bitching about who is more important and enjoy the fact that we're doing well!

[leemajors]

i don't think that's a problem. td needed gnob this last time, there's nothing wrong with that. you need help when an entire team's philosohy is to clog the paint, making you less effective.

[Peter]

He's played the late game hero without TD plenty of times so don't give me that crap! I think its bullshit. Perhaps if TP and Manu hadn't come to the Spurs they wouldn't have won 2 championships, but I'm willing to bet neither would Duncan. The Spurs' success is due to all 3 of them, perhaps a little more so in the case of Duncan since he was a big part of the 1999 championship. In fact, I would add Bruce Bowen to that list, I think he's an extremely important factor on this team.

Now quit bitching about who is more important and enjoy the fact that we're doing well!


Has he carried a NBA team to the postseason as the 1st option?

[smeagol]

How so? Do you honestly believe that Manu and Tony don't owe any of their NBA success to Tim Duncan?
Where did I say that?

I only said Marcus is and idiot if he thinks TD “made” Tony and Manu. I have not followed TP’s career but I have followed Manu’s and he has done what he does in the NBA everywhere else he’s played. And in these places (Italy and the Olympics) he was not playing with TD.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Has he carried a NBA team to the postseason as the 1st option?Well he sure looked like the first option in most games this last postseason. Are you seriously going to stand there and downplay what Gino did against Denver, Phoenix, and Detroit?? I'm not saying he is as good as Tim, I'm saying although not as good, he is still great.

[Peter]

Where did I say that?

I only said Marcus is and idiot if he thinks TD “made” Tony and Manu. I have not followed TP’s career but I have followed Manu’s and he has done what he does in the NBA everywhere else he’s played. And in these places (Italy and the Olympics) he was not playing with TD.


I said that TD made those two NBA All-Stars. Instead of a rational defense, you merely resort to namecalling and bluster. Until you can bring something else, shut up.

[2centsworth]

I remember when Manu and Tim played each other and Manu spanked that ....

[Peter]

Well he sure looked like the first option in most games this last postseason. Are you seriously going to stand there and downplay what Gino did against Denver, Phoenix, and Detroit?? I'm not saying he is as good as Tim, I'm saying although not as good, he is still great.


The 1st option has been and will always be TD. Manu's not the 1st option when he gets the rock after it's been thrown into TD.

[cheguevara]

The 1st option has been and will always be TD. Manu's not the 1st option when he gets the rock after it's been thrown into TD.

WTF?? dude you're giving the name Peter from OfficeSpace a bad rep w/those responses

[Peter]

I remember when Manu and Tim played each other and Manu spanked that ....


...in the NBA? Nope.

[leemajors]

The 1st option has been and will always be TD. Manu's not the 1st option when he gets the rock after it's been thrown into TD.

nice pointless semantics argument.

[Peter]

nice pointless semantics argument.


How is it pointless? The Spurs go to TD often to initiate the offense, moreso than Manu. Manu feeds off of the D's response to TD.

[cheguevara]

Next Peter is gonna argue that the ref is important to win championship because he throws the ball at tip-off :lol

[Peter]

WTF?? dude you're giving the name Peter from OfficeSpace a bad rep w/those responses

Now that's a quality response.

[Peter]

Next Peter is gonna argue that the ref is important to win championship because he throws the ball at tip-off :lol


So TD doesn't draw any attention from opposing D's when he's on the block? Good one.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

So TD doesn't draw any attention from opposing D's when he's on the block? Good one.Christ, fine Peter! You want to hear that Tim is more important to this team then Manu, then fine, he is. Its obvious! The point is, Manu is still great. This is a thread about how Manu wooped Indy's ass, and you come along and make it into a TD vs Manu shit! Quit being such an ass and aknowledge that Manu's 34 foot 3 pointer against Indy was SO SICK, THE KID NEEDS A DOCTOR!!

[Mixability]

:rolleyes

[leemajors]

stating the obvious is pointless. gnob has proven he can flourish in other systems, why can't you just admit he is a good player?

[smeagol]

Ginobili's All-Star berth last season was due in no small part to his postseason rep. Take that away, which is not hard to do if you are projecting where a Spurs team w/o Duncan would be in the L, and he's got what?
No. Wrong again.

Manu made the all star because of how he was playing in at the beginning the 2004/05 season, especially after he dropped 48 on the Suns in late January. His post season in the 03/04 season was average.

[Peter]

stating the obvious is pointless. gnob has proven he can flourish in other systems, why can't you just admit he is a good player?

Has he proven that he can carry a NBA team to the postseason as the focal point of an offense and without the best player and best post player as a teammate?

Where have I said that he is not a "good player"?

[Peter]

No. Wrong again.

Manu made the all star because of how he was playing in at the beginning the 2004/05 season, especially after he dropped 48 on the Suns in late January. His post season in the 03/04 season was average.


Was Duncan not on the team?

[leemajors]

seeing as he hasn't played for any other team, i don't see the point of that argument. just because he has flourished in places other than the nba does not mean he hasn't achieved legitimate success.

[leemajors]

Has he proven that he can carry a NBA team to the postseason as the focal point of an offense and without the best player and best post player as a teammate?

Where have I said that he is not a "good player"?

the same place that all these people you are arguing with stated that duncan isn't a focal point for the spurs offense, i guess...

[Peter]

seeing as he hasn't played for any other team, i don't see the point of that argument. just because he has flourished in places other than the nba does not mean he hasn't achieved legitimate success.


That does not place him on par with Duncan.

[BigVee]

So TD doesn't draw any attention from opposing D's when he's on the block? Good one.

I really hate to get in this, but as many times as not, Manu initiated the offense off of a pick and roll, where he makes the decision whether to shoot, drive, pass, etc. They run that just as much as they throw the ball to Duncan. I see it time and time again at the end of games due to Ginobili's decision making and the fact that he makes his free throws. No one argues the overall importance to the team..

[Peter]

I really hate to get in this, but as many times as not, Manu initiated the offense off of a pick and roll, where he makes the decision whether to shoot, drive, pass, etc. They run that just as much as they throw the ball to Duncan. I see it time and time again at the end of games due to Ginobili's decision making and the fact that he makes his free throws. No one argues the overall importance to the team..

Sure, and often TD is the guy setting the pick.

[leemajors]

That does not place him on par with Duncan.

no one is trying to place him on par with duncan. remedial reading classes may help you with this comprehension problem.

[BigVee]

Sure, and often TD is the guy setting the pick.


No shit. Who would you have set it?

[Peter]

No shit. Who would you have set it?


Chris Mihm, I guess.

[leemajors]

rasho is also often setting that pick, nazr is lost in the lane when it is supposed to be set.

[Peter]

no one is trying to place him on par with duncan. remedial reading classes may help you with this comprehension problem.


Someone did. I can read just fine. I can also assess why the Spurs are successful. But that requires being able to watch a game and understand what is going on...

[leemajors]

no one did, your assumption is that they did. therein lies the problem. the spurs over a long term period do owe their success to duncan, just as they did to robinson before that. now, duncan isn't the sole reason for their success - he has 2 all star teammates to help him carry the load. i don't know why that rubs you the wrong way.

[Peter]

no one did, your assumption is that they did. therein lies the problem. the spurs over a long term period do owe their success to duncan, just as they did to robinson before that. now, duncan isn't the sole reason for their success - he has 2 all star teammates to help him carry the load. i don't know why that rubs you the wrong way.

He has two All-Star teammates due to his presence.

[smeagol]

Was Duncan not on the team?
Not the point. You said Manu was chosen an All Star because of his accomplishments in the post season. I proved you wrong.

Go re read the thread, moron.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

He has two All-Star teammates due to his presence.WHY EVEN BOTHER!? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif

[Peter]

Not the point. You said Manu was chosen an All Star because of his accomplishments in the post season. I proved you wrong.


Sure, that's how he made his name. He was an All-Star when TD was his teammate. Again and again his success begins with having TD as his teammate.



Go re read the thread, moron.

Tsk tsk. Someone's mad.

[Peter]

WHY EVEN BOTHER!? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif


Yes, I'm not quite sure why I bother.

[bdubya]

Would it help you guys bury the hatchet if I posted a rant about Manu's flopping? :angel

[smeagol]

Sure, that's how he made his name. He was an All-Star when TD was his teammate. Again and again his success begins with having TD as his teammate.

No, it's not how he made his name. He had a name before he came to the US.

In any case, did you re read your early post as I said?

No?

Well, here is


Ginobili's All-Star berth last season was due in no small part to his postseason rep.

This statement is bullshit.

And you can't prove you point about his success beginning with having TD as his teammate. No matter how hard you try, you can't.

Manu had 13 points in the last 2.47 minutes in the Indy game. In none of those 13 points TD was remotely involved.

How did TD help Manu make (i) the floater on the 2.47 minute mark, (ii) that 35 foot three pointer, (iii) the steal he had right after the 3 pointer, (iv) all his cluth FTs.

[Peter]

(i) TD's presence forces the opposition to focus on him and clear up the paint for Ginobili to drive. This is the essence of TD's value to the rest of his teammates. Take away TD and replace him with Mihm and the defense is keying on Manu. Spurs struggle to perhaps make the playoffs.

(ii) Great shot. He's unlikely to hit that shot often.

(iii) In general, TD anchors the defense which allows his teammates to focus on covering their man.

(iv) About the only offensive play which doesn't involve TD.

[manubili]

It's all a question of chemistry. Detroit has it perfect. Gino + Tim + Parker + Bowen is a deadly cocktail, and its proven, but we're missing a Center at this level.
It's like the JLA:
Tim:Superman
Manu:Batman
Tony:Flash
Bruce:Hulk?
Rasho/Nazr: Wonderwoman :hat

[smeagol]

i don't know why that rubs you the wrong way.
I don't either. It's like in Peter's eyes, giving props to TP or Manu is taking away from TD.

Go figure . . .

[Peter]

I don't either. It's like in Peter's eyes, giving props to TP or Manu is taking away from TD.

Go figure . . .


When you act as though Manu could do it on his own, well, it is.

[5ToolMan]

Damn! The same troll has hijacked two Manu threads in one day.

1) Manu's consistant history of clutch play cannot be denied.

2) Manu's consistant history of clutch play does not distract from TD's greatness.

If you cannot understand the simple truth of both 1 and 2, go away and bet a clue. :smokin

[Peter]

Damn, someone disagrees with the mind clusterfuck here and they're a "troll". Well, dish out all the names you want, it belies your ability to actually discuss the issue at hand.

[5ToolMan]

Damn, someone disagrees with the mind clusterfuck here and they're a "troll". Well, dish out all the names you want, it belies your ability to actually discuss the issue at hand.

Peter, you can express all the disagreements and different points of view you want on this board, and most will engage in civil discussion.

Your problem is you twist and throw out red herrings that you don't, and in most cases you can't back up, because your references to past posts are mostly lies and BS.

You have made many untrue statements in this thread, debating what you claim others have said.

When asked to put up or shut up, your responce is to tap dance. I will give it one more try, them I am done.

If you can find where anyone said anything bad about Tim OR said Manu > Tim in this thread, post it. If not STFU, or better yet, be a Man and admit you highjacked the thread by misquoting others.

[Peter]

It's not a red herring. It was claimed that Manu is on par with TD in the NBA.

I'll do what I want and I certainly won't kowtow to a group whose only response is to scream and yell.

[IceColdBrewski]

Damn, someone disagrees with the mind clusterfuck here and they're a "troll".

No. You don't graduate to "troll" until you spew endless garbage without facts or evidence.

I'm about as non-homer as they come, so trust me. This has nothing to do you "stepping in line", and everything to do with you living in a fantasy world. Time to wake up.

[Peter]

No. You don't graduate to "troll" until you spew endless garbage without facts or evidence.

I've offered both. What you brought consisted of neither.



I'm about as non-homer as they come, so trust me. This has nothing to do you "stepping in line", and everything to do with you living in a fantasy world. Time to wake up.

More of the same from you.

[smeagol]

(i) TD's presence forces the opposition to focus on him and clear up the paint for Ginobili to drive. This is the essence of TD's value to the rest of his teammates. Take away TD and replace him with Mihm and the defense is keying on Manu. Spurs struggle to perhaps make the playoffs.

(ii) Great shot. He's unlikely to hit that shot often.

(iii) In general, TD anchors the defense which allows his teammates to focus on covering their man.

(iv) About the only offensive play which doesn't involve TD.
I have Tivoed that game and watched the last three minutes five times. Manu made all four of the points I brough up on his own (the floater, the three pointer, the steal and the FTs)

The funniest thing is that you now claim that Manu's steals are also because of Duncan. :lol

Whatever . . .

[Peter]

I did not claim that steal was created by TD, but that in general, TD's presence in the paint allows the Spurs perimeter defenders to be more aggressive. That shouldn't be controversial.

[smeagol]

It's not a red herring. It was claimed that Manu is on par with TD in the NBA.

Sure, saying Manu beat TD in the Olympics is implying Manu is better than TD (even though I stated till I'm blue in the face Manu<Tim).

And you never twist the truth.

Naaaahhhhhh

[leemajors]

It's not a red herring. It was claimed that Manu is on par with TD in the NBA.

I'll do what I want and I certainly won't kowtow to a group whose only response is to scream and yell.

it was not, either you cannot read or have some synaptic misfiring going on. all that was said is that argentina beat the us. they did. nothing will change that, and apparently nothing will change your miscomprehension of the aforementioned statement.

[smeagol]

I did not claim that steal was created by TD, but that in general, TD's presence in the paint allows the Spurs perimeter defenders to be more aggressive. That shouldn't be controversial.
Although that might be true (and again, difficult to prove), why does Manu have so many more steals than our other perimeter players?

[T Park]

TD's presence in the paint allows the Spurs perimeter defenders to be more aggressive. That shouldn't be controversial.

Dont you know that without Ginobili, Duncan wouldn't be able to guard the rim??

FUCKIN MANU HATER!!!! - Argentina

[E20]

Props to Manu. He is hella fucking cool and good. Too bad he is 28. Man I wish he was like 22 and so was Duncan.

[T Park]

why does Manu have so many more steals than our other perimeter players?

cause he cheats on defense more than the others, KNOWING he has someone, uh to back him up near the rim....

That guy isn't Rasho.

Wears numero 21.

[Peter]

Sure, saying Manu beat TD in the Olympics is implying Manu is better than TD (even though I stated till I'm blue in the face Manu<Tim).

And you never twist the truth.

Naaaahhhhhh

Funny way to show your agreement with my observation that Manu was in the Finals because of TD.

[Peter]

it was not, either you cannot read or have some synaptic misfiring going on. all that was said is that argentina beat the us. they did. nothing will change that, and apparently nothing will change your miscomprehension of the aforementioned statement.


Right, Argentina beat the US in a game that allowed Oberto to look like a dominant big. In the NBA he's struggling to be the 4th big in the rotation.

[leemajors]

Right, Argentina beat the US in a game that allowed Oberto to look like a dominant big. In the NBA he's struggling to be the 4th big in the rotation.

and that post also has nothing to do with the topic. congratulations.

[T Park]

IT does.

And if you cant get it? Then step away from the damn keyboard.

[smeagol]

Dont you know that without Ginobili, Duncan wouldn't be able to guard the rim??

FUCKIN MANU HATER!!!! - Argentina
Man, how difficult it is to have an intelligent conversation with you.

[T Park]

Oh sorry, did I too good of an impression of an argentine for you?

I apologize for not sugar coating.

[smeagol]

Funny way to show your agreement with my observation that Manu was in the Finals because of TD.
I have never denied the fact Manu plays better because of TD.

You, on the other twist the truth to make your point.

I well never accept you comment about how Manu owes everything to TD (stupid comment). The only one backing you is TPark. That speaks volumes.

Oh, an d Tpark, sure Manu has so many steals because of TD. :rolleyes

[T Park]

sure Manu has so many steals because of TD

Don't think having a dominating defensive big man backing him up helps Ginobili cheat more and get steals??

Of course not, its ALL manu.

Just ask Argentina.

[T Park]

The only one backing you is TPark. That speaks volumes.


More personal attacks.

How cute.

[smeagol]

Oh sorry, did I too good of an impression of an argentine for you?

I apologize for not sugar coating.
Talk about a low blow. Now you have to insult my country to get you point accross.

Yep, eveybody around this board likes you :rolleyes

[T Park]

Talk about a low blow

Oh im sorry, did personally insulting you do something???

I thought that was ok since you were insulting me death here.


Guess dish but can't take eh skip.

[smeagol]

Don't think having a dominating defensive big man backing him up helps Ginobili cheat more and get steals??

From 1 to 10 probably a 2.

So lets see: Manu's steals are due to TD presence, Manu's passes are because of TD being a Spur, Manu's finishes at the rim (something he has not been too god at lately) are due to Duncan breathing and Manu's 80% FT% is because of TD's baskeball tips.

I get it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Don't think having a dominating defensive big man backing him up helps Ginobili cheat more and get steals??

Of course not, its ALL manu.

Just ask Argentina.Hey fat fuck, what the fuck is your problem with Argentina?

[ehz33satx]

When you act as though Manu could do it on his own, well, it is.
Manu did it without Tim back when the Spurs took the Suns to double overtime with Manu leading the way with 48 points with Tim in street clothes. How about the two back to back double overtime wins? I dont think Tim was in either of those games also. Manu and Tony tore it up!

[Peter]

That was one game. What was the Spurs' record without TD last season?

[leemajors]

IT does.

And if you cant get it? Then step away from the damn keyboard.

if you were talking to me, shut up. you have no idea what you are talking about. if i didn't know better i would think you and Peter are the same. read the whole thread next time.

[doldrums]

Oh sorry, did I too good of an impression of an argentine for you?

I apologize for not sugar coating.

Can we please stop this guy before he offends other nations and/or races. What fuckin' lazy debating techniques, just insult the other's ethnicity. Asshole

[leemajors]

any of you argentines fans of borges?

[bdubya]

any of you argentines fans of borges?


I'm not Argentine, but JLB was DA MAN.

[WalterBenitez]

Again and again his success begins with having TD as his teammate. :depressed

No way, this guy will never admit that exist a entire world outside

[WalterBenitez]

any of you argentines fans of borges?

No fan, but I read a little from him

[2centsworth]

...in the NBA? Nope.What's the difference, he spanked that .....

In the NBA Tim was getting used to getting his butt whooped by the Lakers until Manu came and bailed the spurs out and got rid of the dreaded *.

Tim is good but put Tony and Manu on the Lakers and watch the Lakers kick our butts.

[Athenea]

(i) TD's presence forces the opposition to focus on him and clear up the paint for Ginobili to drive. This is the essence of TD's value to the rest of his teammates. Take away TD and replace him with Mihm and the defense is keying on Manu. Spurs struggle to perhaps make the playoffs.

(ii) Great shot. He's unlikely to hit that shot often.

(iii) In general, TD anchors the defense which allows his teammates to focus on covering their man.

(iv) About the only offensive play which doesn't involve TD.
I think u forgot last POffs in several games Manu was the 1 getting dbl teamed and defenses were collapsing on him. I guess u can say that Manu owns TD's performance and MVP award, or that TD owes Manu... :blah (BTW that's sarcasm).
Srsly I hope we never get to know if Manu can carry a team in the NBA coz it would mean:
a-TD is hurt and can't carry the SPurs
b-Manu left the SPurs and is playing somewhere else.
The way u transform a "props to manu" thread into a "let's bash manu" 1, is beyond me :pctoss
If u deny Manu's international awards/career u should also deny the "DreamTeam" concept/fanfare. Coz American Dream Teams played and won in international competitions, and NOT in the NBA.
U sound more like an outsider posting in bballboards or realgm, damn even BSPN forums. A true Spurs fan knows by now how well TD and Manu and Tony and Bruce complement one another.

[2centsworth]

Without Manu the Spurs would be the *purs.

[nkdlunch]

I think Peter will sleep and not respond for a couple of days. He was hitting the pipe hard yesterday.

[smeagol]

Ahh, all you guys talking big while Peter and TPark are off line. Wait until they come in here and kick your asses with great bball takes and facts (and nothing but the facts, i.e., no twisting of the truth).

[2centsworth]

Ahh, all you guys talking big while Peter and TPark are off line. Wait until they come in here and kick your asses with great bball takes and facts (and nothing but the facts, i.e., no twisting of the truth).
You could be John Wooden and Peter and TPark still wouldn't listen to you.

Their reality is that Tim Duncan is the best to have ever played and turns good players into allstars. I on the other hand see how players like Mario Ellie, Sean Elliott, David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobilli, Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, Bruce Bowen, and Stephen Jackson, and the list goes on and on have a lot more to do with the Spurs success than just Tim Duncan. Now with all that being said, Spurs don't sniff the finals without Tim. Without the players I mentioned above from '00-'02 at least the spurs had a chance at the finals but got their butts handed to them by the Lakers. It wasn't until Tony and Manu brought athleticism to the team that San Antonio was able to erase the *.

[Peter]

The addition of Bowen was much more vital to that end. Until the Spurs could play Bryant straight up for significant stretches of the game they were not in any series.

Lest we forget that if Duncan wasn't there, the Spurs wouldn't even make it to that level, which, of course, is the point.

[Peter]

What's the difference, he spanked that .....


And he would never have a chance of "spanking that" in the NBA. Why? Why did Oberto look like a star in the Olympics while he looks like an average bench big in the NBA. There's a reason, something that requires a bit more thought than just repeating "he spanked that" again and again.




In the NBA Tim was getting used to getting his butt whooped by the Lakers until Manu came and bailed the spurs out and got rid of the dreaded *.


If the team was built around Ginobili with no dominant big then the Spurs don't even get to that level. Which, again, is the point. Manu is a borderline NBA All-Star on a team with Duncan.




Tim is good but put Tony and Manu on the Lakers and watch the Lakers kick our butts.

With Chris Mihm starting at center? Please.

[smeagol]

Well, I guess it's time to trade Manu for a legit star. He has obviously peaked last year, and with TD help, he made the ASG. With Duncan on the decline and not able to help Manu further, we are better off trading his ass.

[vanvannen]

Drop by late I guess...

You guys should know by now that TPark has some kind of immunity on these boards that allow him to insult, name call, attack and degrade other posters/ethnic groups/nationalities with no valid reason whatsoever, and still get away with it time and again. I guess bailing out on your team, and being taken back after serious begging entitled him to behave that way.

Peter on the other hand, I guess got stuck so deep in his own flawed argument that he can’t dig himself out if it although it started making nonsense 4 pages back.

To be clear one more time: No one thinks Manu is better than Tim. No one thinks Tim doesn’t make his teammates better. This thread was supposed to give props to Manu for a good game. Unfortunately, someone thought that meant taking away Tim’s stardom on this ballclub. That is just sad and wrong.

On a side note, Leemajors, I read most of Borges work. I think he is probably among the top 5 writers of the 20th century. He was very fond of labyrinths. I guess reading his work would have helped Peter out of this helpless place he put himself into.

[cheguevara]

wannabe Peter's bait??

respond to his posts! :tu

[Peter]

Drop by late I guess...

You guys should know by now that TPark has some kind of immunity on these boards that allow him to insult, name call, attack and degrade other posters/ethnic groups/nationalities with no valid reason whatsoever, and still get away with it time and again. I guess bailing out on your team, and being taken back after serious begging entitled him to behave that way.

Peter on the other hand, I guess got stuck so deep in his own flawed argument that he can’t dig himself out if it although it started making nonsense 4 pages back.

To be clear one more time: No one thinks Manu is better than Tim. No one thinks Tim doesn’t make his teammates better. This thread was supposed to give props to Manu for a good game. Unfortunately, someone thought that meant taking away Tim’s stardom on this ballclub. That is just sad and wrong.

On a side note, Leemajors, I read most of Borges work. I think he is probably among the top 5 writers of the 20th century. He was very fond of labyrinths. I guess reading his work would have helped Peter out of this helpless place he put himself into.

I've not presented a flawed argument. It was claimed that Manu could get the team to the Finals on his own. Again and again there have been references to the Olympics as '04 as proof. Go ahead and whine about the fact that someone has dared to respond to that claim.

I guess I should just join the circlejerk and repeat that 'Manu is the bestest' over and over again.

[vanvannen]

Again Peter, nobody said Manu could carry this team to a ring without TD. It was stated though, that Manu is a star on his own right, therefore, the Olympics argument.

[cheguevara]

Again Peter, nobody said Manu could carry this team to a ring without TD. It was stated though, that Manu is a star on his own right, therefore, the Olympics argument.


dude please!:


wannabe Peter's bait??

respond to his posts! :tu

[Peter]

"Please" what? I've yet to see you offer anything of substance in this thread.

Anyways, it's not as if I'm the only one who's advanced this apparently heretical viewpoint in this thread. Wanna tell the other he's an idiot too?

[smeagol]

It was claimed that Manu could get the team to the Finals on his own.
Please bring up that quote. I just re-read the entire thread and could not find it.

No implications this time.

[Peter]

What's wrong with examining the implication?

[cheguevara]

Please bring up that quote. I just re-read the entire thread and could not find it.

No implications this time.


http://www.senecacounty.com/parks/BlacksmithDedication/caught-fish.jpg

[2centsworth]

And he would never have a chance of "spanking that" in the NBA. Why? Why did Oberto look like a star in the Olympics while he looks like an average bench big in the NBA. There's a reason, something that requires a bit more thought than just repeating "he spanked that" again and again.Oberto didn't look like a star Ginobilli did, and so did Scola. To be honest I never really heard of Oberto until this past off season. Most schmucks like me at a minimum know who the stars are.



If the team was built around Ginobili with no dominant big then the Spurs don't even get to that level. Which, again, is the point. Manu is a borderline NBA All-Star on a team with Duncan.
Manu was the European MVP and bailed out Tim Bumkin in several games in last years playoffs. Now Tim Duncan is one hell of a player.

[Peter]

It was in the other thread. No difference.


Manu is right there in that group when it counts which is at the last minutes of a close game



Manu isn't in that spot if not for TD.



Manu has been in similar sposts without TD. The last one was as early as 2004, when he beat a TD-led team.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34750&page=1&pp=26

[smeagol]

What's wrong with examining the implication?
Can you bring up the quote where somebody claimed that Manu could get the team to the Finals on his own?

You have not done that yet.

I hope it's not another one of your implications (lies)

[Peter]

Oberto didn't look like a star Ginobilli did, and so did Scola. To be honest I never really heard of Oberto until this past off season. Most schmucks like me at a minimum know who the stars are.


Oberto looked like more than the part-time bench big he is in the NBA.




Manu was the European MVP and bailed out Tim Bumkin in several games in last years playoffs. Now Tim Duncan is one hell of a player.

Thanks to "Tim Bumpkin" Manu was on that stage and also free to 'bail out' TD. No TD in the post and Manu is making the occasional flashy play for the 35-47 Golden State Warriors.

[Peter]

Can you bring up the quote where somebody claimed that Manu could get the team to the Finals on his own?

You have not done that yet.

I hope it's not another one of your implications (lies)


You responded to me with that argument. It doesn't have to be explicitly stated. Now stand by your argument or give up already. Sheesh.

[2centsworth]

Oberto looked like more than the part-time bench big he is in the NBA.




Thanks to "Tim Bumpkin" Manu was on that stage and also free to 'bail out' TD. No TD in the post and Manu is making the occasional flashy play for the 35-47 Golden State Warriors.
how about when Bumkin fell apart in game 5 against seattle and Manu scored 39 to carry the spurs. How bout when bumkin got the pretty assist from Manu in game 6 to close out the series.

[Peter]

how about when Bumkin fell apart in game 5 against seattle and Manu scored 39 to carry the spurs. How bout when bumkin got the pretty assist from Manu in game 6 to close out the series.

"Bumpkin" put up 20 and 14 in that contest, as well as the fact that his presence on the court helped Ginobili to put up that total.

[smeagol]

You responded to me with that argument. It doesn't have to be explicitly stated. Now stand by your argument or give up already. Sheesh.
What I'm asking for is not that difficult. If someone claimed that Manu could get the team to the Finals on his own, please quote the post instead of trying to wiesel out.

If Peter can't find it, maybe Marcus Bryant can. I saw him posting on other threads.

[smeagol]

"Bumpkin" put up 20 and 14 in that contest, as well as the fact that his presence on the court helped Ginobili to put up that total.
Yep, Duncan helped. No question. But what you state goes beyond just help. That's why your argument is bullshit.

[leemajors]

Drop by late I guess...

You guys should know by now that TPark has some kind of immunity on these boards that allow him to insult, name call, attack and degrade other posters/ethnic groups/nationalities with no valid reason whatsoever, and still get away with it time and again. I guess bailing out on your team, and being taken back after serious begging entitled him to behave that way.

Peter on the other hand, I guess got stuck so deep in his own flawed argument that he can’t dig himself out if it although it started making nonsense 4 pages back.

To be clear one more time: No one thinks Manu is better than Tim. No one thinks Tim doesn’t make his teammates better. This thread was supposed to give props to Manu for a good game. Unfortunately, someone thought that meant taking away Tim’s stardom on this ballclub. That is just sad and wrong.

On a side note, Leemajors, I read most of Borges work. I think he is probably among the top 5 writers of the 20th century. He was very fond of labyrinths. I guess reading his work would have helped Peter out of this helpless place he put himself into.

that's pretty iffy... i think he would more likely get lost in the work. i definitely agree with him being among the top 5 writers of the 20th century. i was kidna pissed when i started reading him in college because i had never heard his name before. with that much talent to get so little recognition outside of argentina and small academic cirlces is depressing.

[leemajors]

Peter, you have advanced nothing, and keep repeating yourself. no one but you can find anyone saying that ginobili could carry the spurs to the title but you. there was no implication, just you seeing things that aren't there.

[2centsworth]

"Bumpkin" put up 20 and 14 in that contest, as well as the fact that his presence on the court helped Ginobili to put up that total.Bumkin's mere presense did very little except help the spurs go 1-8 against the lakers. It took the european MVP to set the record str8 to help Bumkin erase the *.

[Peter]

Bumkin's mere presense did very little except help the spurs go 1-8 against the lakers. It took the european MVP to set the record str8 to help Bumkin erase the *.

It took the best player in the game as a teammate to get the Euro MVP to that level. Duncan's won a title without Ginobili as a teammate.

Bowen had as much of an impact on the Spurs' fortunes versus LA as did Ginobili.

[Peter]

I never realized that Duncan was that bad of a player. Leave it to Spurs fans to underrate his value and overrate Manu's.

[smeagol]

What I'm asking for is not that difficult. If someone claimed that Manu could get the team to the Finals on his own, please quote the post instead of trying to wiesel out.

So?

Did you find the quote?

Or is it simply another one of your lies/interpretations

[2centsworth]

It took the best player in the game as a teammate to get the Euro MVP to that level. Duncan's won a title without Ginobili as a teammate.

Bowen had as much of an impact on the Spurs' fortunes versus LA as did Ginobili.
You mean the * title of '99. I think David Robinson, Mario Ellie, Sean Elliott were very good and contending if not winning before Duncan's arrival.


You want to overhype Bumkin by downplaying the abilities of Tony and Manu. If Tim is so great then what happened when the Lakers spanked that ....?

[Peter]

So?

Did you find the quote?

Or is it simply another one of your lies/interpretations


You claimed that Ginobili's been in "similar spots" without Duncan. Without Duncan, Ginobili's not even in the NBA playoffs on his own. How is this not clear?

[2centsworth]

So?

Did you find the quote?

Or is it simply another one of your lies/interpretations
Tim can't get the team to the finals by himself either. Marcus is like a Larry Bird fan downing playing the importance of Kevin Mchale. Kevin was average at best without Bird, give me a break.

[Peter]

You mean the * title of '99. I think David Robinson, Mario Ellie, Sean Elliott were very good and contending if not winning before Duncan's arrival.

Right, they were also-rans.




You want to overhype Bumkin by downplaying the abilities of Tony and Manu. If Tim is so great then what happened when the Lakers spanked that ....?

Manu's not in the postseason without Duncan. They are not equals.

[2centsworth]

You claimed that Ginobili's been in "similar spots" without Duncan. Without Duncan, Ginobili's not even in the NBA playoffs on his own. How is this not clear?
How do you know?

[2centsworth]

Right, they were also-rans.
I guess you agree with me.





Manu's not in the postseason without Duncan. They are not equals.
Manu is more clutch by far.

[Peter]

How do you know?

How did the Spurs fare without TD down low drawing the attention of opposing defenses last season?

[Peter]

I guess you agree with me.

Not really. It's not DRob wasn't a legit post threat in his own right.




Manu is more clutch by far.

Manu has a chance to be clutch because Duncan's his teammate.

[smeagol]

You claimed that Ginobili's been in "similar spots" without Duncan.

Similar spots, in the context of my statement, could mean a million things.

What it really meant, and I know 'cause I wrote it, is that Manu has played at very high levels not only for the SPurs but also in other leagues (Italy, Argentina and in the Olympics).

How you infer from that that "Manu can take any team to the NBA finals" is beyond my comprehension.

Funny, and you never twist stuff around :lol


Without Duncan, Ginobili's not even in the NBA playoffs on his own. How is this not clear?

How the fuck do you know this? Manu has only played for the Spurs with Duncan.

:pctoss

[2centsworth]

How did the Spurs fare without TD down low drawing the attention of opposing defenses last season?
Tony went off from what I remember. Nevertheless, lets stick to playoffs because regular season sucks.

If it's not for Tony and Manu Tim has a big fat Astericks stamped on his forehead. You being Duncan's number 1 man should appreciate that.

[2centsworth]

Similar spots, in the context of my statement, could mean a million things.

What it really meant, and I know 'cause I wrote it, is that Manu has played at very high levels not only for the SPurs but also in other leagues (Italy, Argentina and in the Olympics).

How you infer from that that "Manu can take any team to the NBA finals" is beyond my comprehension.

Funny, and you never twist stuff around :lol



How the fuck do you know this? Manu has only played for the Spurs with Duncan.

:pctoss

Manu helps get the * off of Tim's back and this is the thanks he gets.

[smeagol]

Manu has a chance to be clutch because Duncan's his teammate.

Bullfuckingshit!

Manu is clutch with or without Duncan. You claim to know so much about baskeball but you can't recognize that.

Manu made one of the most clutch shots I have ever seen in the first game of the 04 Olympics agains S&M.

Manu made an incredible 3-pt shot just two days ago against the Pacers. Duncan had nothing to do with both these plays.

Manu often comes up big in 4th Q.

Christ, as a fan you don't fucking deserve to have Manu in your team.

[2centsworth]

Duncan has that power to make other people clutch, just ask Terry Porter and Danny Ferry.

Hell Duncan needs to worry about himself not melting down.

[Phenomanul]

Bullfuckingshit!

Manu is clutch with or without Duncan. You claim to know so much about baskeball but you can't recognize that.

Manu made one of the most clutch shots I have ever seen in the first game of the 04 Olympics agains S&M.

Manu made an incredible 3-pt shot just two days ago against the Pacers. Duncan had nothing to do with both these plays.

Manu often comes up big in 4th Q.



Or his back-to-back impossible shots over Yao... or the OT thriller in Phoenix... or Manu taking the team on his back in the Denver series last year.... and Game 5 of the Seattle series... and his perfect pass to Duncan in Game 6 of that same series...

Manu does so much with or without Duncan on the floor.... Having Duncan there, of course, makes it easier... But Manu-haters would have to be blind to see that Manu has the ability to make plays that few others can even see.

[2centsworth]

Or his back-to-back impossible shots over Yao... or the OT thriller in Phoenix... or Manu taking the team on his back in the Denver series last year.... and Game 5 of the Seattle series... and his perfect pass to Duncan in Game 6 of that same series...

Manu does so much with or without Duncan on the floor.... Having Duncan there, of course, makes it easier... But Manu-haters would have to be blind to see that Manu has the ability to make plays that few others can even see.Duncan has super human powers and makes people play that way.


Signed,

Brent Barry

[Darth48076]

Yes the Manufish is good.