It's Official... Pistons Trade Milicic and Arroyo

[lilmads]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2332021

[50 cent]

I wonder what pick the lottery pick is protected to?

[hussker]

Three Cares

[SlasherX]

Chris McCosky the pistons insider said on wdfn 1130 am that the Pick is for 2007 protect 1 to 5. And its only protected for 2007, after 2007 no Protection.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

I can't say I like this, hopefully Joe D has something else up his sleeve.....

[Pistons < Spurs]

For a 2006 pick, I could deal w/ this trade....sort of..........but for a protected 2007? BS :pctoss

[cecil collins]

For a 2006 pick, I could deal w/ this trade....sort of..........but for a protected 2007? BS :pctoss
Wow, they really took it hard in this trade. How did Orlando pull this off? Was there really that little an interest in Darko?

[Leetonidas]

Darko and Howard?

Interesting. Now to just get rid of Franchode and the team will be semi-decent.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Darko and Howard?



I'm kinda curious to see those two play together.

[Leetonidas]

I'm kinda curious to see those two play together.

You guys have seen Darko play. Is he actually any good at all or is he useless?

[2centsworth]

Getting a bag of doritos for Darko is a good deal.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

You guys have seen Darko play. Is he actually any good at all or is he useless?

Haha, well thats kind of the problem. We've barely seen him play. Its hard to judge him from what little we've seen. He usually looks lost and uncoordinated on the court, but he's shown flashes of great talent.

[mavsfan1000]

Dumars must've got the Isaiah Thomas disease. What a fucking stupid trade.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Getting a bag of doritos for Darko is a good deal.

Depends on what kind of Doritos...

[Leetonidas]

I don't understand why they shipped out Arroyo. Who is their backup PG now?

[Marklar MM]

I don't understand why they shipped out Arroyo. Who is their backup PG now?

They will most likely activate Alex Acker and use Lindsay Hunter, Delfino, and Prince at point. But I am sure there is something up Dumars sleeve to get some sort of backup.

[Stacis_pistons_rock]

reports coming out of AM12.70 in detroit is Joe D offered raptorsdarko and arroya and they turned it down they want a 1st round pick.so a reliable source on a local detroits radio station says pistons and raptors are gonna do a trade sending cato and 1st round picks to toronto for mike james.

[Marklar MM]

so a reliable source on a local detroits radio station says pistons and raptors are gonna do a trade sending cato and 1st round picks to toronto for mike james.

Will that even work. Cato makes 5 million more a year than James, let alone giving Toronto extra picks. That would be shitty shit.

[FreshPrince22]

One thing is certain.... Joe absolutely KNOWS that Darko is going to be a huge bust.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Funny how Cato becomes the 2nd highest paid Piston...

[Stacis_pistons_rock]

Will that even work. Cato makes 5 million more a year than James, let alone giving Toronto extra picks. That would be shitty shit.
yes cause i belive detroit will give them the draft picks and cato has a expired at the end of the season.

[Pistons < Spurs]

You guys have seen Darko play. Is he actually any good at all or is he useless?


Depending on which Piston fan you ask, you're likely get different answers.

I am one of the Darko supporters. I think he does have lots of skill....but it is still very raw. He is pretty quick for a 7 footer. He has a knack of being able to get a block on jumpshooters. Playing against Sheed in practice probably helped him on this front as he has a very high release...compared to him everyone else is easy to get a block on. He is a pretty damn good passer. Has the ability to hit 3's....when confident. He also has the ability to shoot airballs!

The fact is that he is still very young. Also, he never played many minutes while in Europe. He was drafted purely on potential. IMO no one can say if he's good or if he sucks. He just doesn't have enough game time to make an honest judgement. He has though definetly shown "Flashes".....

His biggest downside, is his seemingly lack of agressiveness. He often looks laxidasical when out there. I think this is mostly due to his 'situation'. The kid knows that he will never see any serious playing time. No way in hell he get's into the rotation while Ben,Sheed and Dice are in front of him. He knows that. He has no real incentive to do anything else.

Also, he did have to play under LB for 2 years. Who knows how that has affected him. He seems to be the type of guy that you have to coddle a little bit. Seems a little sensitive and immature in regards to his attitude. But I mostly attribute that to his age, and being a little shy coming to a new country...learning the language, learning how to drive etc etc. His is still very young and has had to make a lot of adjustments in his life.

As mad as I am to swee him traded, I am happy for him as he will finally get a chance to play. More importantly, he'll get a chance to play after making mistakes. Too often, he has been pulled and shelved for multiple games if he made a mistake, I believe it was against New York this year, he played very poorly...and we didn't see him on the floor again for like 12 games. He will never learn to get better if he isn't allowed to make mistakes, and improve upon them.

Was he worth the #2 pick? Who knows. Perhaps time will tell. But we did win a 'ship'. I don't know if that'd be true if we did take Melo or Bosh or Wade etc etc... We would have been focused too much IMO in getting them playing time. Who knows.

I think he may in time be considered a little bit of a dissapointment. In that I mean to say that I don't think his #'s will reflect what we tend to think a #2 should get. I beleive his numbers will look like: 18pt 8rb 4ast 2blk. Those are good #'s, but perhaps not what we expect form the second overall pick.

Skill wise I think he'll be a mix of Memo and Kirelenko....maybe. He will need to find his nasty side though. He has to show a little of that Pau Gasol aggression. (I just noticed I used 3 white Euro's in trying to describe him..... :rolleyes :lol ).

Initially he'll make an impact defensively. At least he did learn that from Detroit. Many times I've seen him make play after play on the defensive side. Blocking shit all over the place. He needs to become a better rebounder. Doesn't block people out very well. But playing alongside Howard, that may nopt matter as much. I think given time, those two, side by side could be a very fun duo to watch. Add Jameer Nelson and possibly Jamal Crawford from NY, Hedo, Grant Hill....they could be fun to watch.

I wish him the best, but I know I will be pissed off in a couple of years when I see him dropping 25 on people.

[Stacis_pistons_rock]

Depending on which Piston fan you ask, you're likely get different answers.

I am one of the Darko supporters. I think he does have lots of skill....but it is still very raw. He is pretty quick for a 7 footer. He has a knack of being able to get a block on jumpshooters. Playing against Sheed in practice probably helped him on this front as he has a very high release...compared to him everyone else is easy to get a block on. He is a pretty damn good passer. Has the ability to hit 3's....when confident. He also has the ability to shoot airballs!

The fact is that he is still very young. Also, he never played many minutes while in Europe. He was drafted purely on potential. IMO no one can say if he's good or if he sucks. He just doesn't have enough game time to make an honest judgement. He has though definetly shown "Flashes".....

His biggest downside, is his seemingly lack of agressiveness. He often looks laxidasical when out there. I think this is mostly due to his 'situation'. The kid knows that he will never see any serious playing time. No way in hell he get's into the rotation while Ben,Sheed and Dice are in front of him. He knows that. He has no real incentive to do anything else.

Also, he did have to play under LB for 2 years. Who knows how that has affected him. He seems to be the type of guy that you have to coddle a little bit. Seems a little sensitive and immature in regards to his attitude. But I mostly attribute that to his age, and being a little shy coming to a new country...learning the language, learning how to drive etc etc. His is still very young and has had to make a lot of adjustments in his life.

As mad as I am to swee him traded, I am happy for him as he will finally get a chance to play. More importantly, he'll get a chance to play after making mistakes. Too often, he has been pulled and shelved for multiple games if he made a mistake, I believe it was against New York this year, he played very poorly...and we didn't see him on the floor again for like 12 games. He will never learn to get better if he isn't allowed to make mistakes, and improve upon them.

Was he worth the #2 pick? Who knows. Perhaps time will tell. But we did win a 'ship'. I don't know if that'd be true if we did take Melo or Bosh or Wade etc etc... We would have been focused too much IMO in getting them playing time. Who knows.

I think he may in time be considered a little bit of a dissapointment. In that I mean to say that I don't think his #'s will reflect what we tend to think a #2 should get. I beleive his numbers will look like: 18pt 8rb 4ast 2blk. Those are good #'s, but perhaps not what we expect form the second overall pick.

Skill wise I think he'll be a mix of Memo and Kirelenko....maybe. He will need to find his nasty side though. He has to show a little of that Pau Gasol aggression. (I just noticed I used 3 white Euro's in trying to describe him..... :rolleyes :lol ).

Initially he'll make an impact defensively. At least he did learn that from Detroit. Many times I've seen him make play after play on the defensive side. Blocking shit all over the place. He needs to become a better rebounder. Doesn't block people out very well. But playing alongside Howard, that may nopt matter as much. I think given time, those two, side by side could be a very fun duo to watch. Add Jameer Nelson and possibly Jamal Crawford from NY, Hedo, Grant Hill....they could be fun to watch.

I wish him the best, but I know I will be pissed off in a couple of years when I see him dropping 25 on people.
i'm very happy far darko and arroya their gonna beable to play instead of being bystander's behind the pistons player's.i cant wait to see how they do on the magic i'm excitted for them both.

[timvp]

This trade pretty much ends the debate about whether Dumars is a better GM than Pop/RC.

[T Park]

Word....


Giving up on a prospect like that is just lunacy.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Word....


Giving up on a prospect like that is just lunacy.
:tu

[ca®lo]

at least darko will finally get to prove that hes just not a human victory cigar afterall.. like what kerr said.

remains to be seen if darkos a catch or a bust

[SouthernFried]

Pistons...that was one great post.

I don't know much about Arroyo...but, what I have seen, I thought that kid had potential too. He has some skills.

I still don't really know what Detroit has gotten in return for 2 potentially very good players.

[T Park]

Damn just fully read the thread.


If they turn Cato and a number 1 into Mike James.

Shit.

Then, we might have a problem Houston.

[angel_luv]

Poor Darko. The Finals this year won't be the same without our good ol victory cigar.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Damn just fully read the thread.


If they turn Cato and a number 1 into Mike James.

Shit.

Then, we might have a problem Houston.


IF that were to happen, it would lessen some of the anger I currently have........but I don't know.

We'll see in the next few days if this rumor has any validity.

M Jmaes would defeinelty be a BIG boost.......

[Kori Ellis]

How would James for Cato work? Cato makes more than double what James does.

[JamStone]

Pistons...that was one great post.

I don't know much about Arroyo...but, what I have seen, I thought that kid had potential too. He has some skills.

I still don't really know what Detroit has gotten in return for 2 potentially very good players.


Not that I agree with it, but cap space to re-sign Ben Wallace this summer and Chauncey Billups next summer without going past the luxury tax threshhold.

I don't agree with the decision, but some rumored reports from Pistons insiders intimate that Bill Davidson is reluctant to pay over the luxury tax, and Joe Dumars made the trade in a cost cutting maneuver to ensure he would be able to re-sign both Ben and Chauncey.

The deal itself does not look good for the Pistons. Even taking into consideration what Dumars was trying to do, I think the Pistons should have gotten more for Darko and Arroyo.

[Pistons < Spurs]

I think the deal would be for the #1 pick...and not for Cato.

As you stated, the #'s don't compute if it was for Cato. unless there were other teams involved.....which I don't believe there are.

I beleive I heard that James was on the last year of his contract? and the thought was that Toronto was afraid that they wouldn't be able to re-sign him. At least trading him for a future #1 would give them something out of the deal.

I don't think there is much validity to any of this. More than likely, it is a rumor started by some Piston fan that just keeps getting spread around.


All I know is that Dumars better have something in the works. Because if not, Chauncey is going to be playing tons of minutes........No way Hunter can be counted on for more than 6-8 minutes a game. Not that he is truly gifted at running an offense. Defensively, he can obviously be a plus....but at this stage of his career, I do not want him running the point much. And the thought that Prince can is also silly. He may be able to do it for spot minutes in January, but that won't work in June.

[ambchang]

Am I the only one here who thinks the trade is a good trade? Darko has failed to produce under a defense-oriented coach (Brown), and an offense-oriented coach (Saunders) for more than 2 years, and Detroit still get to trade him and Carlos Arroyo away for Cato's expiring contract, and a possible lottery pick, how in the world is that a bad trade? The expiring contract helps Detroit free up cap space to resign Wallace and Billups.
This is an incredible deal.
For the sake of argument, what would you perceive as fair value for Darko?

[SequSpur]

Great, Detroit is making moves to seal the deal while the Spurs are nurturing shitty players from Slovenia hoping that one day they will truly get it.

Unreal.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Am I the only one here who thinks the trade is a good trade? Darko has failed to produce under a defense-oriented coach (Brown), and an offense-oriented coach (Saunders) for more than 2 years,

If you were the coach, would you play him if you had Dice,Ben and Sheed in front of him? Throw in Elden Campbell, and now Dale Davis. That's alot of talent in his way. When he was drafted, he was according to Dumars, "our future". He was not expected to contribute now. He is now only 20 years old. I think peoples expectations for him are completely skewed.



and Detroit still get to trade him and Carlos Arroyo away for Cato's expiring contract, and a possible lottery pick, how in the world is that a bad trade? The expiring contract helps Detroit free up cap space to resign Wallace and Billups.


We didn't NEED to free up any money. Sure, payroll is now less, but we still COULD have re-signed Ben and Chauncey.


This is an incredible deal.
For the sake of argument, what would you perceive as fair value for Darko?

Not too long ago, we were supposedly offered Al Harrington for Darko alone.

Al is a proven comoditity. He is an immediate impact.

Instead we give him AND Arroyo for a player that we are likely to CUT/WAIVE, and a draft pick 2YEARS from now...and it is protected 1-5.

Just my opinion, but this was a terribly shitty job on Dumars part.

[CharlieMac]

I really like Darko. He's a good kid.

[Kori Ellis]

Great, Detroit is making moves to seal the deal while the Spurs are nurturing shitty players from Slovenia hoping that one day they will truly get it.

Unreal.

The traded two players for a player they aren't going to use. I'm not sure how that seals the deal.

[ambchang]

Damn just fully read the thread.


If they turn Cato and a number 1 into Mike James.

Shit.

Then, we might have a problem Houston.

As a Spurs fan, I beg and pray for that to happen. Mike James is ballhog extraordinarie. The man has zero concept of ball movement. Yes, he score a lot of points, plays defense, and even pick up a few assists, but his ability to make mistakes, especially with the game on the line is incredible.
Everytime he gets the ball, he has the tendency to ball fake a few times, take a couple of dribbles regardless of whether one of his teammates are wide open for a shot. This allows the defense to rotate and take away that shot, he he does it time and time again. Sort of like Marbury or Francis light.
For some reason, Bosh is really fond of James, and rumours has it whether Bosh signs this summer depends on whether James remains a Raptor. So this trade is unlikely to happen.

[Pistons < Spurs]

As a Spurs fan, I beg and pray for that to happen. Mike James is ballhog extraordinarie. The man has zero concept of ball movement. Yes, he score a lot of points, plays defense, and even pick up a few assists, but his ability to make mistakes, especially with the game on the line is incredible.
Everytime he gets the ball, he has the tendency to ball fake a few times, take a couple of dribbles regardless of whether one of his teammates are wide open for a shot. This allows the defense to rotate and take away that shot, he he does it time and time again. Sort of like Marbury or Francis light.
For some reason, Bosh is really fond of James, and rumours has it whether Bosh signs this summer depends on whether James remains a Raptor. So this trade is unlikely to happen.


Mike James is a HUGE upgrade from Arroyo. And an even bigger upgrade than nothing. Which is what we have now for a back-up PG.

Also, we will not be getting him to be used during "crunch time".

[Kori Ellis]

But I still don't get how you are getting Mike James. You would have to trade a player to get him. You said not Cato. You can't get him for just a pick.

[Pistons < Spurs]

But I still don't get how you are getting Mike James. You would have to trade a player to get him. You said not Cato. You can't get him for just a pick.


I totally agree. I think it's all a fanciful dream some fan came up with.

[T Park]

Great, Detroit is making moves to seal the deal while the Spurs are nurturing shitty players from Slovenia hoping that one day they will truly get it.

The player they are trading for is getting cut numbnuts.

[ambchang]

If you were the coach, would you play him if you had Dice,Ben and Sheed in front of him? Throw in Elden Campbell, and now Dale Davis. That's alot of talent in his way. When he was drafted, he was according to Dumars, "our future". He was not expected to contribute now. He is now only 20 years old. I think peoples expectations for him are completely skewed.

We didn't NEED to free up any money. Sure, payroll is now less, but we still COULD have re-signed Ben and Chauncey.

Not too long ago, we were supposedly offered Al Harrington for Darko alone.

Al is a proven comoditity. He is an immediate impact.

Instead we give him AND Arroyo for a player that we are likely to CUT/WAIVE, and a draft pick 2YEARS from now...and it is protected 1-5.

Just my opinion, but this was a terribly shitty job on Dumars part.

I guess I will just have to disagree on that. If I were the coach (which according to my girlfriend, I try to act like one with my basketball buddies), I would play Darko more than 5 minutes a game for 25 games out of 50 when my team is winning by more than 8 points a game IF he was any good. Especially when both Wallaces are averaging about 36 minutes a game. To me, that is quite telling of his ability. The Pistons are/were killing everyone in the league in the regular season, and with their dominance of some teams, playing Darko 10 minutes a game will not jeopardize a game for them.

As for the luxury tax, if Davidson said no to it, there is nothing Dumars can do, afterall, Dumars doesn't sign the cheques. It's either this, or risk losing Wallace or Billups (which I do think is unlikely to happen, even if they were offered less money than market, both are too smart not to know Detroit is the best place for their careers).

As for Harrington, it wasn't too long ago that Milicic was considered a victim of Larry Brown, Saunders has shown that it is not the case, Darko simply isn't that good (at this moment). Also, the 2007 draft is considered to be one of the deepest drafts in years, teams are expected to draft good talent even in the mid-teens. If the Pistons can manage to get a 6-10 pick, they would be in very good shape.

[Budkin]

The Magic are my other favorite team, and this trade gives me some kind of hope for them. Other than Dwight Howard, everything has turned out bad since Shaq left.

[ambchang]

Mike James is a HUGE upgrade from Arroyo. And an even bigger upgrade than nothing. Which is what we have now for a back-up PG.

Also, we will not be getting him to be used during "crunch time".

I guess I have been watching too many Raptors game to like James. With James in the game, there is just no way the Pistons will see their offense executed to the crispness they see with Arroyo in the game (and I understand Arroyo is not the best backup PG in the league), the Pistons can get Jose Calderon if they were to trade with the Raptors, or Antonio Davis, who really isn't working out that well in Washington, Anthony Johnson, if the Pacers ever elect to trade him. Oh well, I suppose there really isn't a lot Pistons can go for, but I can tell you straight off James is worth worse than 0 for the Pistons, especially on offense.

[angel_luv]

Announcer: "Darko you've just been traded. What are you going to do now?"

Darko: "I'm going to Disney World!"

Sorry D! Couldn't resist :lol

[hussker]

Announcer: "Darko you've just been traded. What are you going to do now?"

Darko: "I'm going to Disney World!"

Sorry D! Couldn't resist :lol

More Like LIVE in Disney World!

[Pistons < Spurs]

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9591/darko3hn.jpg

[hussker]

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9591/darko3hn.jpg
NICE!

[Pistons < Spurs]

AUBURN HILLS - Next step for the Pistons - find some insurance at the point guard position.

At about 7 p.m. Wednesday, the Pistons and Orlando Magic finalized a trade that had been talked about for over a month.

The Pistons sent forward Darko Milicic, the second overall pick in the 2003 draft, and point guard Carlos Arroyo to the Magic for center Kelvin Cato and the Magic’s first round draft pick in 2007. The Magic will be able to retain that pick if it is one of the top five.

If it carries over to the 2008 pick, it would be unprotected.

The move has virtually no short-term impact for the Pistons. Arroyo’s minutes had been cut to less than 10 a game, and Milicic was out of the rotation.

Long-term, though, the Pistons gain not only a first-round draft pick, but also $8.7 million in cap space created by Cato’s expiring contract. The Pistons, as of Wednesday evening, hadn’t decided whether or not to bring Cato in for a medical examination or simple waive him. He has been out most of the season with a right foot injury.

“Right now, I have to get to work on finding another back-up point guard,” Dumars said.

With Arroyo gone, the Pistons are left with 35-year-old Lindsey Hunter, who is just now getting back into shape after preseason ankle surgery, and rookie Alex Acker, who has yet to play in an NBA game.

The Pistons can also use Carlos Delfino and Tayshaun Prince at the point, if necessary.

[Kori Ellis]

Who would they use for trade bait to get a PG?

[baseline bum]

One thing is certain.... Joe absolutely KNOWS that Darko is going to be a huge bust.

Joe also knew he was a franchise player when he drafted him. I don't see anything in this guy. Jermaine O'Neal was in a similar situation in Portland, but in the few minutes he got sometimes he could impress the hell out of you. I don't see Darko following in O'Neal's footsreps. When I've seen him play he looks like he doesn't belong in this league.


reports coming out of AM12.70 in detroit is Joe D offered raptorsdarko and arroya and they turned it down they want a 1st round pick.so a reliable source on a local detroits radio station says pistons and raptors are gonna do a trade sending cato and 1st round picks to toronto for mike james.

That's scary. Mike James is probably the best backup point in the game. The only guy I'd even consider with him would be Speedy.

[Kori Ellis]

That's scary. Mike James is probably the best backup point in the game. The only guy I'd even consider with him would be Speedy.

Yeah except his scenario of Cato and picks for James doesn't even come close to adding up.

[Budkin]

Announcer: "Darko you've just been traded. What are you going to do now?"

Darko: "I'm going to Disney World!"

Sorry D! Couldn't resist :lol

Awesome :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

i live in toronto and owuld be STUNNED if the city gave up mike james. he's been the only other bright spot on this miserable team besides chris bosh. i'd have a hard time believing they'd give him up for cato and soem draft picks although look at what they did with vince!

[Kori Ellis]

Mike James only makes $3M. Cato makes $8M. The trade doesn't work. If they trade for James, it has to be something else.

[manu]

wow this is like the best trade ever,
i mean, who wouldn't wanna get darko milicic in their team?!!!!!!!!
that means more posters for lil young MAGIC fans to put up on their walls!!!!!
just the beauty of seeing darko in those posters gettin dunked on!!!
go darko!!!!!!!!

[Dunc]

I'm still torn on this.... Arroyo had flashes of brilliance, but also long streaks of complete mediocrity and an inability to make quick decisions... Darko had a great preseason. That's about it. He has hands of stone, I'm not sure I've ever seen him catch a pass or grab a board cleanly, he always fumbles it around and that's not acceptable. And he apparently never made the effort necessary to break into the top 10 with the Pistons. I'm really wishing that draft pick was for this coming draft, since we don't have a pick in the 1st round. Maybe Joe D. will turn the pick around with something (Cato's expiring contract?) to get a decent backup PG. I guess we'll see.

[SenorSpur]

I hope Detroit takes that weakness at PG into the playoffs.

Hopefully, Kiki won't do any deals with Detroit for Earl Watson.

[SenorSpur]

I, for one, am bothered by the fact that the Spurs are the league's oldest team. With age comes injury. With injury comes missed opporutnities.

My other worry with this deal is the Pistons are making moves to clear cap space and get younger (additional 1st round draft choice).

I trust the Spurs will do some of the same and invest in more youth and athleticism at the 3 spot after this year.

[wildbill2u]

Word....


Giving up on a prospect like that is just lunacy.

Actually, drafting a project like Darko that high was the original lunacy. He had nowhere to go but down because of the expectations caused by his high draft number.

[FreshPrince22]

He had better tank in Orlando. I don't want to feel even worse about this whole fiasco.

[Pistons < Spurs]

He had better tank in Orlando. I don't want to feel even worse about this whole fiasco.


Screw it man. I wish the best for him.

This whiole trade is a joke, at least let one good thing come out of it!

[Pistons < Spurs]

What pisses me off, is that if Dumars was gonna do this deal, why didn't he do it 3 weeks ago when we could have acquired Chucky Atkins? We knew the Orlando deal was on the table, and we could have had our back-up PG who is acquainted with our team. I just cannot find any way to be happy about this trade.

[mavsfan1000]

This trade to turn the pistons seasons into a backspin. They have lost a quality backup point guard and their future center. Dumars has done many questionable things though they surprisingly turned out well but I can't see anything great come out of this trade.

[WalterBenitez]

I am one of the Darko supporters. I think he does have lots of skill....but it is still very raw. He is pretty quick for a 7 footer..

mee too, Darko's time is coming


The fact is that he is still very young. Also, he never played many minutes while in Europe. He was drafted purely on potential.

That was always my point why DET didn't send DARKO to Europe, like many NBA's team usually do

[jochhejaam]

Great, Detroit is making moves to seal the deal while the Spurs are nurturing shitty players from Slovenia hoping that one day they will truly get it.

Unreal.
I"ll have to remember not to drink coffee in the future while reading your posts, nearly laughed it onto my shirt.

I think it's a good trade for Det, Arroyo's a good passer a subpar shooter from the field and the line and an atrocious defender. Carlos Delfino's game has really picked up especially at the defensive end where he's done a great job defending Kobe, Pierce and most recently V. Carter (5-13 from the field).
He has quick hands, good hops and doesn't usually fall for pump fakes. They've played him in the backcourt and it gives us more rebounding and much better defense and offense.
That being said I hope we can trade for a good backup PG before the deadline.

[WayDowntownBang]

I really like Darko. He's a good kid.


This isn't even true. The guy spends all of his time in the bars in Pontiac, MI constantly drunk. That's a big part of why he's not developing, yet no one ever talks about it.

We're talking about this trade like it's a big deal. I was a Darko supporter myself, and spent a lot of time defending it. Problem is, he's not going anywhere. He doesn't have the desire, and that's just sad, because the talent is there.

Put things into perspective though.

Darko has no role on the Pistons. It's a mistake Joe made (although all the other GMs were in agreement with the move at the time), and Joe's getting us another 1st rounder to try again. You can't ask for anything else. Cato is purely for cap room. If Ben or Chauncey left in the next few years because we couldn't cover the salaries, you'd all be up in arms.

[JamStone]

This trade to turn the pistons seasons into a backspin. They have lost a quality backup point guard and their future center. Dumars has done many questionable things though they surprisingly turned out well but I can't see anything great come out of this trade.


Securing the re-signing of Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups?

Joe Dumars is one of the more financially responsible GMs in the league. I don't like the value we got back for Darko and Arroyo, but if you understand the forward thinking of Joe Dumars, you understand the move a little more. It has been reported that Pistons owner, Bill Davidson, does not want to go into luxury tax. The trade allows signing Ben Wallace to a big contract without getting into the luxury tax.

I don't like the trade much. I think Joe Dumars could have gotten more for Darko and Arroyo. But, I understand it. It's not always about making a deal and a player surprisingly working out. Sometimes it's more about the financial implications and/or keeping the good players the team already has.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Cato's $8.7 million salary will come off the Pistons' books in July. With that, as well as losing the two years and $8 million owed to Arroyo and the $5.2 million owed to Milicic, the Pistons expect to be nearly $15 million under the luxury tax threshold this summer.

The Magic will retain their draft pick this year, and will get it in 2007 if it is among the first five. In 2008, though, the Pistons would get it regardless of where it falls.

There is a chance that Cato might never play for the Pistons. He is 31 and idle because of a broken bone in his right foot. He had shoulder surgery over the summer and has played in only 23 games with the Magic.

The Pistons do not intend to waive him, however. They will use him as trade bait to find another point guard.

With Arroyo gone, the Pistons have Lindsey Hunter, 35, who is still regaining form after preseason ankle surgery, and rookie Alex Acker as backups to Billups. They could also use Carlos Delfino and Tayshaun Prince as fill-ins at point guard.

The Pistons, though, are expected to make a run at veterans Speedy Claxton (New Orleans), Tyronn Lue (Atlanta) and Brevin Knight (Charlotte). Claxton and Lue are in the final years of their contracts and make $3.6 million. Knight makes $4.6 this season and $4.4 in 2006-2007.

Trading Cato for any of those players would still leave the Pistons deep enough under the luxury tax threshold to re-sign Wallace and Billups.

"We will be in the market to add depth at the point guard position," Dumars said. "If we can't, we still have four guys who can handle the backup point guard position."

[DarkReign]

Financial move...bottom line.

It sucks, its hard and I am seriously surprised with Bill Davidson. IMO, Joe D doesnt make this deal without the owner telling him he doesnt want to go into luxury tax zone.

Moreover, I think JoeD is smarter than your average bear.

I dont think he is done making moves. That Rasheed deal just goes to show that some teams are just willing to take nothing for something if approached at the right time.

In Joe I trust. Unwavering.

[ShoogarBear]

I would hate for the Pistons to get Speedy. Just hate.

[WalterBenitez]

I was thinking how to catalogue JD's decision of selecting Darko, when Carmelo, Chris Bosh, DWYANE WADE were selected after Darko, and my conclusion is ... JD was very bad, and now trading him just recognizing his mistake.

[bdubya]

I dont think he is done making moves. That Rasheed deal just goes to show that some teams are just willing to take nothing for something if approached at the right time.

In Joe I trust. Unwavering.

Right on. I'll pass judgement on this move at the end of next week, after we see if Joe has anything else on the burner.

As for the Mike James rumors, that's been wishful thinking for many Pistons fans (like me) who would like to see the "Pit Bulls" (James and Hunter) reunited. Their full-court pressure was FUNNY to watch - teams would get totally discombobulated just trying to get the ball across half-court. But Lindsey's two years older now and the game is whistled a little differently, so that might not work anymore. I'd still love to see it, but I'm not holding my breath.

But even if Joe doesn't do anything else, a mix of Lindsey and Tayshaun at PG, with more time for Delfino at SF, should still be an upgrade from Arroyo. I liked his game, I liked his spirit, I just didn't like his results on the floor.

[spurster]

I think trading Arroyo was a bad idea. He's an inconsistent PG, but most young PGs are inconsistent, and you have to be patient. If the Pistons somehow get Mike James out of it, then it's a good deal, but then the Raptors logic is screwy. Why trade a good young player for a 1st round pick to maybe get a good young player?

[Trainwreck2100]

Why are the Pistons fans worrying about the pick, with Joe D's track record he'll probably turn it into an even better bench warmer than Darko was.

[sickdsm]

LMAO at Piston fan who said that Flip would develop Darko like all the raw talent he did in MN. Ebi's in the D-league BTW.

What's up with running down Darko after the trade? You know he's a shit player when AFTER the deal the fans do that.

Great deal for Det. Darko sucked and will continue to suck. Too bad Cato isn't healthy or iit would be incredible.

[ata]

It is hard to predict future, however Darko has been in the same situation Brezec was in Indiana. Brezec has proved that he can play, and so will Darko.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I don't see how Detroit could get Speedy. He's an important contributer on a playoff team, they're not just going to give him away.

[timvp]

One day Pistons fans are telling us how good their bench is with Arroyo and Delfino improving by the day and telling us how Darko is about to bust onto the scene and prove that he belonged to be picked ahead of Carmelo and Wade. The next day Arroyo is a scrub and Darko was an obvious bust.

WTF Detroit?

[Kori Ellis]

The Pistons, though, are expected to make a run at veterans Speedy Claxton (New Orleans), Tyronn Lue (Atlanta) and Brevin Knight (Charlotte). Claxton and Lue are in the final years of their contracts and make $3.6 million. Knight makes $4.6 this season and $4.4 in 2006-2007.

Trading Cato for any of those players would still leave the Pistons deep enough under the luxury tax threshold to re-sign Wallace and Billups.

Isn't Tyronn Lue out for the year?

I don't see why those teams would trade them Speedy or Knight.

[ChumpDumper]

Bernie would trade Brevin for that pick with little hesitation, IMO. Knight would have to approve of course, but why wouldn't he?

I doubt the Hornets would let go of Speedy - they have their own playoff run to think about.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm not liking a Finals matchup if they can land either of those points.

[Joepa]

Marcus...you average 380+ posts a day.

That is freaking insane.

[Marcus Bryant]

You should see me on Sundays.

[Marklar MM]

Dumars said that Darko/Arroyo was the 1st part of the trade.

[themvp]

Marcus...you average 380+ posts a day.

That is freaking insane.


Yep, he does :lol

[Nikos]

I'm not liking a Finals matchup if they can land either of those points.

Me neither. Being on Detroit either Speedy or Brevin would be the best backup PG in the league, on the best team (while possibly ensuring them as the best upon arrival). Considering Billups can easily play the two, that would make Detroit by far the nastiest guard trio in the league.

To be honest, Speedy to me as already the best backup PG in the league and is essentially a quality starter. Brevin is also a quality starter in my mind who does everything a PG should be able to do (handle the rock, penetrate, pass, defend etc...).

I am guessing Speedy is out of their reach. But I don't want Brevin on Detroit -- just how plausible is Detroit getting Knight?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I know it's been said...but the Pistons are scary if they somehow pull off getting Speedy, Brevin or (however) Mike James.

[baseline bum]

Lue is a ridiculously bad point, who used to live off his Laker rep. Claxton would make Detroit practically unbeatable.

[SoCalSpursFan]

Arroyo was never a good fit in Det...

Darko, well, it's about time... :rolleyes

[timvp]

I'm not overly scared of the Pistons getting a decent backup point guard. The less I see of Billups, the better. Even if they play them at the same time, that means someone in the starting lineup is sitting out.

I can live with that.

That said, please no Speedy.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

It seems unlikely that the Pistons would be able to get Speedy since he's already on a solid team, but I think there is a very good chance that Joe will work out a trade for Brevin Knight.

[RaptorsFan]

Mike James is not going anywhere unless there are compotent players involved that will be going to Toronto in return. We are not going to add draft picks. We've stockpiled enough young talent, that phase of the rebuilding process is over (as evidenced by the Denver 1st rounder going to the Knicks in the Rose trade) and we are trying to surround them with veterans.

[Fool]

WTF Detroit?

WTFDetroit.com is a good board.

[Marklar MM]

WTFDetroit.com is a good board.

:drunk

[Edwardo]

I like the trade because we are no worse off than we were before. Darko and Arroyo did not improve our team one bit. But some "other Piston fans" (who think they can be GMs) say Joe should have got more out of this. Darko does not play and Arroyo was not Joe Dumars guy in the first place. Teams no this and may not have offered more than this. Really you only heard Orlando's name in this trade talk for a reason. This isn't a video game where all your trades workout even steven. We really don't know who got the best of this deal so "those" Piston fans who think they are GM's need to chill.

[ducks]

darko is very underrated here

pistons were trying to make him play a postion he did not play overseas
not his natural postion
you play him at his postion he will kick ass

[zero signal]

WTFDetroit.com is a good board.

Thanks for throwing that out there. :tu I've gotten pretty sick of going to realgm for Detroit info.

On the other hand, there's as many Detroit fans around here as Spurs fans :lol

I guess I could just come here more often.

[Pistons < Spurs]

darko is very underrated here

pistons were trying to make him play a postion he did not play overseas
not his natural postion
you play him at his postion he will kick ass
:tu

[slayermin]

Guilty as charged. I'm a Darko fan.

[Pistons < Spurs]

On the other hand, there's as many Detroit fans around here as Spurs fans :lol

I guess I could just come here more often.


Yes indeed! This is the "Detroit Spurs" Message Boards! :spin