It's Good to be 4th

[MadDog73]

I'm sure this has been said before, but it needs to be said again:

It's good for the Spurs to be 4th, provided they have the 2nd best record in the West.

So, while the Mavericks will face the Lakers in the first round (be scared Mavs fans!), the Spurs will have homecourt against the whoever they face throughout the playoffs, except for the Mavs, and the Pistons.

(And we all know, having "homecourt" advantage during the Finals is kinda a joke. Thanks to the 2-3-2 format, if the visitors win one game on the road, they can easily sweep back home).

Nothing is more dangerous than a 4th seed with a good record.

(That's my story and I'm sticking with it).

[Joepa]

Way to be optimistic.

Now that we're back by one game we should just give up on HCA for the rest of the season. We're toast.

/sarcasm

[SequSpur]

the lakers aren't going to make the playoffs.

[FromWayDowntown]

At the moment, the Spurs control their own fate. Win the two games against the Mavs and, assuming all other things to be equal, the Spurs are up 1 and hold a tiebreaker.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

All I know is, I want no part of Sacramento in the First Round

[Joepa]

I feel that. Sacto scares the crap out of me.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I would love to see Dallas Vs. Sacto, I think Sacto could upset Dallas IF Artest kept his head

[Mavtek]

God I hope Sacto makes it! Bunch of cream puffs! Probably the funniest thing to watch in the series will be when Adelman has Miller guard Dirk, true greatness!

[Joepa]

Artest > Mavericks

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

God I hope Sacto makes it! Bunch of cream puffs! Probably the funniest thing to watch in the series will be when Adelman has Miller guard Dirk, true greatness!


I thought Ron Artest was genetically Engineered to guard Dirk

[Mavtek]

I thought Ron Artest was genetically Engineered to guard Dirk

Well if he was it coulda fooled me, the Mavs are something like 12 and 3 vs Indiana with Artest. Both time we've played the Pacers this year we killed them once with Artest at home. So if he's a Dirk stopper I haven't seen it.

[Mavtek]

http://www.nba.com/games/20051206/DALIND/boxscore.html

Dirk had 31 and 11 on 11 of 19 shooting. If that's shutting him down I'll take that shut down every game!

[FromWayDowntown]

Well if he was it coulda fooled me, the Mavs are something like 12 and 3 vs Indiana with Artest. Both time we've played the Pacers this year we killed them once with Artest at home. So if he's a Dirk stopper I haven't seen it.

Does that 12-3 figure include pickup games, or games played on xBox?

For the Mavericks to be 12-3 vs. Indiana with Artest, Ron would have to have played at least 7 full years in Indiana (which he didn't) and never missed a game against the Mavs. Since Artest was drafted in 1999 and is only in his 7th season, since he didn't end up in Indiana until February 19, 2002, and since Artest only played in 7 games in 04-05 (none against Dallas), your number cannot possibly be correct.

So, I did some checking.

Since February 19, 2002, the Dallas Mavericks are actually 4-4 against the Indiana Pacers; and they're actually 2-3 (not 12-3) in games that Ron Artest has actually played in.

Good try, though.

[leemajors]

bang!

[island_dude]

the lakers aren't going to make the playoffs.
Finally someone who knows what he's talking about.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Rank these teams in order that you'd want to play them in the 1st round

Utah
Sacramento
LA Clippers

[FromWayDowntown]

I also don't get the idea that Dirk is getting over on Artest.

In the 5 games that Dirk and Artest have played against each other (notwithstanding the number of actual possessions on which they match up), Dirk's total numbers look like this:

38-93 FG (.409)
5-26 3PT (.192)
29-36 FT (.806)
110 PTS (22.0 ppg, with 6 or so per game coming from the line)

Lest anyone think those are somehow skewed by one bad game, here are Dirk's lines in those games

4-20 FG, 0-8 3PT, 9-13 FT, 17 pts
8-15 FG, 2-6 3PT, 2-2 FT, 20 pts
7-20 FG, 1-5 3PT, 5-6 FT, 20 pts
8-19 FG, 1-4 3PT, 5-6 FT, 22 pts
11-19 FG, 1-3 3PT, 8-9 FT, 31 pts

In the other 4 games Dirk has played against Indiana from the start of the 2001-02 season, his numbers look like this:

41-84 FG (.488)
10-18 3PT (.556)
43-49 FT (.878)
135 PTS (33.8 ppg, with almost 11 per game coming from the line)

Here they are by game:

12-20 FG, 2-3 3PT, 8-8 FT, 34 pts
9-21 FG, 2-3 3PT, 12-14 FT, 32 pts
10-21 FG, 2-4 3PT, 9-12 FT, 31 pts
10-22 FG, 4-8 3PT, 14-15 FT, 38 pts

Now, can you look at those numbers and tell me that there isn't any correlation at all between Artest's presence and the apparent reduction in Dirk's statistical output?

Seems to me that where there's smoke there's likely some fire.

[island_dude]

All the talk about the "Fakers" being in the Mavs heads is overblown. The Fakers probably won't even make the playoffs, but if they do the Mavs would easily win that series in 5 games.

[alamo50]

the lakers aren't going to make the playoffs.

Word since training camp.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I also don't get the idea that Dirk is getting over on Artest.

In the 5 games that Dirk and Artest have played against each other (notwithstanding the number of actual possessions on which they match up), Dirk's total numbers look like this:

38-93 FG (.409)
5-26 3PT (.192)
29-36 FT (.806)
110 PTS (22.0 ppg, with 6 or so per game coming from the line)

Lest anyone think those are somehow skewed by one bad game, here are Dirk's lines in those games

4-20 FG, 0-8 3PT, 9-13 FT, 17 pts
8-15 FG, 2-6 3PT, 2-2 FT, 20 pts
7-20 FG, 1-5 3PT, 5-6 FT, 20 pts
8-19 FG, 1-4 3PT, 5-6 FT, 22 pts
11-19 FG, 1-3 3PT, 8-9 FT, 31 pts

In the other 4 games Dirk has played against Indiana from the start of the 2001-02 season, his numbers look like this:

41-84 FG (.488)
10-18 3PT (.556)
43-49 FT (.878)
135 PTS (33.8 ppg, with almost 11 per game coming from the line)

Here they are by game:

12-20 FG, 2-3 3PT, 8-8 FT, 34 pts
9-21 FG, 2-3 3PT, 12-14 FT, 32 pts
10-21 FG, 2-4 3PT, 9-12 FT, 31 pts
10-22 FG, 4-8 3PT, 14-15 FT, 38 pts

Now, can you look at those numbers and tell me that there isn't any correlation at all between Artest's presence and the apparent reduction in Dirk's statistical output?

Seems to me that where there's smoke there's likely some fire.

Very Nice FWD

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Holy Shit. I had no idea what the playoff outlook was at this point in the season. New Orleans? Lakers?

No Minny, sactown??

It's gonna be an interesting playoffs. I think Phoenix/Memphis could be the greatest match ever. Memphis could actually beat them too...Spurs Clippers would be tight as well.

[Mavtek]

Holy crap, I'd never have done all that research! HA HA!! I was just throwing it out there because it seems like everytime we've played Indiana we beat the crap out of them. Oh and rarely in those games has Artest even guarded Dirk, if I remember correctly O Neal usually guards him. So effectively we've found that Dirk has had 2 bad games against the Pacers.

[Melmart1]

I would love to see the Spurs play Sacramento in the playoffs. As far back as I can remember, we have never played them in the playoffs. I have been a fan since I was 12, and can't recall. I am sure I could look it up somewhere but I should be working right now, so no time :)

[FromWayDowntown]

Spurs have never played the Kings (either in Sacramento or in Kansas City) in a playoff series. Among current West teams, they've also never played the LA Clippers and the NO/OKC Hornets.

For whatever it's worth, the Spurs have also played series against 6 East franchises: Detroit, New Jersey, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, and Boston.

[timvp]

:lol @ FWD destroying Mav Fan.

[xcoriate]

Sheesh no kidding

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Does that 12-3 figure include pickup games, or games played on xBox?

For the Mavericks to be 12-3 vs. Indiana with Artest, Ron would have to have played at least 7 full years in Indiana (which he didn't) and never missed a game against the Mavs. Since Artest was drafted in 1999 and is only in his 7th season, since he didn't end up in Indiana until February 19, 2002, and since Artest only played in 7 games in 04-05 (none against Dallas), your number cannot possibly be correct.

So, I did some checking.

Since February 19, 2002, the Dallas Mavericks are actually 4-4 against the Indiana Pacers; and they're actually 2-3 (not 12-3) in games that Ron Artest has actually played in.

Good try, though.


:lmao

Now THAT ladies and gentlemen, is how you OWN someone on a message board!








Simply beautiful man! *sniff*

[TOP-CHERRY]

Does that 12-3 figure include pickup games, or games played on xBox?

For the Mavericks to be 12-3 vs. Indiana with Artest, Ron would have to have played at least 7 full years in Indiana (which he didn't) and never missed a game against the Mavs. Since Artest was drafted in 1999 and is only in his 7th season, since he didn't end up in Indiana until February 19, 2002, and since Artest only played in 7 games in 04-05 (none against Dallas), your number cannot possibly be correct.

So, I did some checking.

Since February 19, 2002, the Dallas Mavericks are actually 4-4 against the Indiana Pacers; and they're actually 2-3 (not 12-3) in games that Ron Artest has actually played in.

Good try, though.
Damn!
If that isn't ownage, I don't know what is.

[WayDowntownBang]

(And we all know, having "homecourt" advantage during the Finals is kinda a joke. Thanks to the 2-3-2 format, if the visitors win one game on the road, they can easily sweep back home).

Good OP, but I've got to argue the lack of importance of Homecourt advantage. You play all year to get Game 7 at your house. Yes, the 2-3-2 lessens the advantage if you're planning on a 5 or 6 game series, but that 7th game means everything. If you need game 7, you want it at your house. Spurs fans know this first hand.

[mavsfan1000]

It's good to be first. :lol

[boutons_]

If the Spurs get to the Finals (Tim's PF is the biggest obstacle), they won't have HCA, so their only hope would be to split the first 2 @Auburn Hills, then go 2-1 in the middle 3 @ATT, then go back to Auburn Hills up 3-2, needing only 1 of the last 2.

If Tim's PF keeps him playing the way he is now, not bad, but way below his capabilities, then Spurs can kiss repeat goodbye.

[Pandaemonaeon]

Artest never guards Dirk - he's usually on Finley which is hard to tell because Fin is prone to playing like crap even if it's Marty Conlon on him. Ronnie did get his chance during the 2nd game this season but Dirk just posted him up repeatedly or beat him off the dribble on every match-up. I don't think one game is indicative of a defenders' effectiveness at guarding a certain player, that's why I don't put too much stock on Bowen's D on Dirk last time. Maybe he did, but I'd still want to see him do it 3 or more times consistently (much like with Kobe, Carter, et. al.) before I buy into it.

[Kori Ellis]

It's not good to be 4th.

Everyone wants to be number 1.

[T Park]

I just love, how the Mavericks fans, they are 1 game up, and think they have the right to talk shit.

I just find it hilarious.

[mavsfan1000]

I just love how some spurs fans think you can throw any guard at Dirk and be successful.

[leemajors]

maybe we could pull a nellie and put tp on him the whole game

[FromWayDowntown]

Ronnie did get his chance during the 2nd game this season but Dirk just posted him up repeatedly or beat him off the dribble on every match-up. I don't think one game is indicative of a defenders' effectiveness at guarding a certain player, that's why I don't put too much stock on Bowen's D on Dirk last time. Maybe he did, but I'd still want to see him do it 3 or more times consistently (much like with Kobe, Carter, et. al.) before I buy into it.

Ronnie didn't play in that 2nd game this season -- link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores105/105360/NBA147752.htm). By December 26, he had long since asked to be traded. So, short of imagination, I have no idea where you come up with the notion that he defended Dirk and that Dirk torched him.

With regard to the other issue, you'll note that I premised my post on the idea that I don't know how often Artest defended Dirk. My point, however, is that there appears to be some clear and direct correlation between Artest's presence and a decline in Dirk's numbers -- after all, Dirk shoots almost 50% from the floor and gets to the line with ease when Artest isn't there, but barely shoots 40% and rarely gets to the line when Artest has played. And it's not as if the bad numbers are badly skewed by one bad game. Are you suggesting that is just a mere coincidence?

[SoCalSpursFan]

Come playoff time, the Spurs will be unbeatable, and I don't mind the 4th seed, but I also don't mind another Midwest Div Banner hanging in the ATT Center.

[Pandaemonaeon]

Ronnie didn't play in that 2nd game this season -- link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores105/105360/NBA147752.htm). By December 26, he had long since asked to be traded. So, short of imagination, I have no idea where you come up with the notion that he defended Dirk and that Dirk torched him.

Oops my bad. I was talking about the FIRST game of this season. I watched that game twice.


My point, however, is that there appears to be some clear and direct correlation between Artest's presence and a decline in Dirk's numbers -- after all, Dirk shoots almost 50% from the floor and gets to the line with ease when Artest isn't there, but barely shoots 40% and rarely gets to the line when Artest has played. And it's not as if the bad numbers are badly skewed by one bad game. Are you suggesting that is just a mere coincidence?

I would probably equate it to Indiana's team defense (which used to be great) rather than the "supreme" presence of Artest who has his eyes glued on Fin his entire career against the Mavs.