Franchise in New York

[polandprzem]

Steve Francis is headed to New York under a deal agreed to Wednesday by the Knicks and the Orlando Magic, ESPN.com has learned.

The teams agreed to a trade of Francis for Penny Hardaway and Trevor Ariza, two league sources with knowledge of the deal told ESPN.com.

The trade was expected to be announced later Wednesday afternoon after being called in to the league office.

In New York, Francis will be paired with Stephon Marbury as the highest-paid backcourt duo in the NBA.

The Knicks were still talking with several other clubs as team president Isiah Thomas worked at remaking a roster that has stumbled to the league's second-worst record, 15-37.

For the Magic, the trade will provide salary cap relief to a franchise that can now go further beneath the cap than any of the league's 30 teams in the summer of 2007 when a bumper crop of free agents will be on the market, giving Orlando several options in figuring out how to rebuild around 20-year-old power forward Dwight Howard.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2339941

[KEDA]

Badass move my the Magic, also gives Penny the chance to hang em up where he started.

[Joepa]

This is going to be the most entertaining team to watch for the second half of the year. Franchise and Stephon trying to share a ball is laughable.

Holy crap Isaiah Thomas is an idiot.

[MoSpur]

Stephon has to be on the way out.

[Isiah Thomas]

You will now see the evolution of a franchise. Marbury will slide to 2 gaurd and everything else will fall into place.

[MoSpur]

I would like to see Stephone back in Minny, but I know it wouldn't happen. Teams like Atlanta and Portland might be interested in Steph. NY would like to get their hands on someone like Darius Miles so I think Marbury will go to Portland.

[Joepa]

Why do teams always get worse after trading for Marbury?

[Despot]

things could get interesting, especially if they get Garnett.

[Trainwreck2100]

things could get interesting, especially if they get Garnett.

The Garnett story had Penny's contract as part of the deal.

[10-tka]

Who'll be no. 3?

I always loved Steve and I wish him a happiest time at Knicks.
Maybe one day he'll be the Spur

[ShoogarBear]

For the Magic, the trade will provide salary cap relief to a franchise that can now go further beneath the cap than any of the league's 30 teams in the summer of 2007 when a bumper crop of free agents will be on the market, giving Orlando several options in figuring out how to rebuild around 20-year-old power forward Dwight Howard.


And we all know that Orlando with cap room = rebuilding geniuses.

[MoSpur]

Who'll be no. 3?

I always loved Steve and I wish him a happiest time at Knicks.
Maybe one day he'll be the Spur

What the? You have to be joking! Please say you are.

[Despot]

The Garnett story had Penny's contract as part of the deal.


Ahhh, my understanding was that they were trying to get Franchise and KG and seperate deals were in place.

[Phenomanul]

Who'll be no. 3?

I always loved Steve and I wish him a happiest time at Knicks.
Maybe one day he'll be the Spur


No Thanks.... Parker >>>> Francis. with regards to the role of the PG to Pop's system.

[MoSpur]

Ahhh, my understanding was that they were trying to get Franchise and KG and seperate deals were in place.

They were, but apparently Minny wasn't that interested and so they went with Orlando and Orlando got Penny's contract. I still believe that NY has another deal in place that sends Marbury to Portland for Theo Ratliff and Darius Miles. NY might even throw in Jamal Crawford.

[Despot]

They were, but apparently Minny wasn't that interested and so they went with Orlando and Orlando got Penny's contract. I still believe that NY has another deal in place that sends Marbury to Portland for Theo Ratliff and Darius Miles. NY might even throw in Jamal Crawford.

Marbury and franchise don't seem like they would work togethor, but if they could make it work, wow.

[MoSpur]

Orlando is going to be under the cap big time, which means they can go after someone like Al Harrington, Nazr, Caron Butler, and others to build around Dwight Howard. Dwight has a very bright future.

[Despot]

Orlando is going to be under the cap big time, which means they can go after someone like Al Harrington, Nazr, Caron Butler, and others to build around Dwight Howard. Dwight has a very bright future.

:tu

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

So let me get this straight, half the knicks team is now built up of point guards who don't know how to pass, and the other half is undersized power forwards. How is Isiah not in the running for executive of the year?

[ABDENOUR POWER]

Holy shit, Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury in the same backcourt. That will be fun to watch. :lol

[blaze89]

Orlando is going to be under the cap big time, which means they can go after someone like Al Harrington, Nazr, Caron Butler, and others to build around Dwight Howard. Dwight has a very bright future.

Maybe they won't screw it up this time.

[MoSpur]

So let me get this straight, half the knicks team is now built up of point guards who don't know how to pass, and the other half is undersized power forwards. How is Isiah not in the running for executive of the year?

Exactly. How does he still have a job?

[rayray2k8]

Steve Francis is headed to New York under a deal agreed to Wednesday by the Knicks and the Orlando Magic, ESPN.com has learned.

The teams agreed to a trade of Francis for Penny Hardaway and Trevor Ariza, two league sources with knowledge of the deal told ESPN.com.

The trade was expected to be announced later Wednesday afternoon after being called in to the league office.

In New York, Francis will be paired with Stephon Marbury as the highest-paid backcourt duo in the NBA.

The Knicks were still talking with several other clubs as team president Isiah Thomas worked at remaking a roster that has stumbled to the league's second-worst record, 15-37.

For the Magic, the trade will provide salary cap relief to a franchise that can now go further beneath the cap than any of the league's 30 teams in the summer of 2007 when a bumper crop of free agents will be on the market, giving Orlando several options in figuring out how to rebuild around 20-year-old power forward Dwight Howard.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2339941

OMG!! this is ball hog heavan!! :lol

[zeleni]

This could be great...

I have high hopes for LB next year. Two ballhogs against a wicked coach should unite...and make a team.

[baseline bum]

OMG, Isiah should be shot. Why would anyone want Steve Francis? Isiah is wrecking that franchise. I wish Stern, Granik, and all would go do an intervention at Madison Square Garden.

[yavozerb]

I cannot believe that no one has put a stop to Isiah's dumb-ass team rebuilding process!!You would think by having a horrible team year in and year out with the most expensive roster in the NBA that somebody would smack this dude (Isiah) out of any executive position!!Only in NEW YORK..

[dknights411]

This is just crazy. I just can't see how THESE two...

http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/francis040108-1.jpg

Can play on the same team.

[Joepa]

This is high comedy. I seriously hope they move Marbury.

[DDS4]

Poor Larry Brown.

He's like a gourmet chef cooking at a gala event and McDonald's ingredients are coming in..one box after another.

[MoSpur]

This is just crazy. I just can't see how THESE two...

http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/francis040108-1.jpg

Can play on the same team.

I am willing to bet all my v-bookie that Marbury is next on the way out for power forward or center such as Darius Miles, Theo Ratliff, Kenyon Martin, or Lamar Odom.

[midgetonadonkey]

Holy crap Isaiah Thomas is an idiot.

:tu

[ChumpDumper]

Zeke still has a day to make another move. Were this the only one, it probably wouldn't have happened until tomorrow. GMs like to play chicken to try to get more out of the deal.

[Joepa]

So what's Orlando's starting five looking like after this trade? Is Darko going to start?

[ShoogarBear]

LeBron = Darko + playing time :smokin

[SlasherX]

NewYork Nba's Official Salaries Dumping Place.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2310/knickspayroll6pq.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

So what's Orlando's starting five looking like after this trade? Is Darko going to start?Apparently they still like Battie to the point of wanting to extend him. I figure he'll still start but Darko should be a rotation player.

Right now it should be:

Dooling
Stevenson
Hedo
Howard
Battie

Oops, forgot they got Arroyo, too.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I can already see the Knicks fans at the next draft....

"Hi-re Lay-den *clap clap clap clap clap*"

:lmao

[Brutalis]

OMG, Isiah should be shot. Why would anyone want Steve Francis? Isiah is wrecking that franchise. I wish Stern, Granik, and all would go do an intervention at Madison Square Garden.
Like they needed help wrecking their franchise.

[Dunc]

Jesus Christ... assuming they don't move any players, and didn't acquire any players (yeah, I know it's impossible) in three years they would still be something like $16M over the cap. I loved Isiah when he was a Piston, but I thank the dear Lord every morning when I wake up that he's in New York and not calling the shots in Detroit. Fuck, that man has no idea what on earth he is doing.

[ShoogarBear]

Does Houston still count against their cap even though he retired?

[Dunc]

Does Houston still count against their cap even though he retired?

Nope.

[Kori Ellis]

There's rumors of NY getting Ratliff and Miles from Portland next.

[MoSpur]

There's rumors of NY getting Ratliff and Miles from Portland next.

My thoughts exactly. Zike is dumb, but not that dumb to keep both Steph and Franchise together. That's why I was willing to bet all my v-bookie.

[Kori Ellis]

My thoughts exactly. Zike is dumb, but not that dumb to keep both Steph and Franchise together. That's why I was willing to bet all my v-bookie.

Oh. I hadn't heard they were moving one of those two to get them.

I heard they were going to deal some of their overpriced, undersized forwards.

[blaze89]

Jesus Christ... assuming they don't move any players, and didn't acquire any players (yeah, I know it's impossible) in three years they would still be something like $16M over the cap. I loved Isiah when he was a Piston, but I thank the dear Lord every morning when I wake up that he's in New York and not calling the shots in Detroit. Fuck, that man has no idea what on earth he is doing.

Isiah Thomas as a player, great! As a coach and GM...terrible. He must have some blackmail info or something, why does he still have a job?

[MoSpur]

Oh. I hadn't heard they were moving one of those two to get them.

I heard they were going to deal some of their overpriced, undersized forwards.

That makes plenty of sense too, but I would think it would make more sense to let Steph go to get a power forward or center. They would be very loaded at the PG position if they kept Marbury, Francis, and Robinson. Now they might move Marbury to the 2 spot.

[1Parker1]

Holy shit, Isiah has got to be the dumbest GM ever! First off, if they decide to keep Franchise and Marbury in the backcourt together....well that has got to be the worst combination of two SG's who've played in a PG position most of their careers, and who've made it a habbit of dribbing the clock down and jacking up the worst shots ever.

Secondly, if they do decide to trade away Marbury...all I can say is, Franchise is not an improvement in their PG position over Marbury.

So either way they trade it, the team still sucks. I almost feel bad for Larry Brown...

[lilmads]

^ I feel terrible for the poor guy.. He was on top and now he's at the bottom of it all. It really must suck for him to work so hard all his life, and then have such a horrible season. I just hope the next one is better.

[ShoogarBear]

I can't believe any of this was done without input from LB.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I just don't understand how anyone lets Isiah near anything having to do with roundball. Hell, I wouldn't even let the guy within ten feet of my tires.

Raptors, CBA, Pacers, Knicks... what kind of dirt does Isiah have on people to keep getting jobs?

[SouthernFried]

This is justice.

Larry Brown has finally found someone who trades players like tinker toys worse than him.

Between him and zeke...I would imagine the average stay in NY for a player, would be something like 15 minutes.

[exstatic]

Who'll be no. 3?

I always loved Steve and I wish him a happiest time at Knicks.
Maybe one day he'll be the Spur

Steve Francis is in NO WAY Spurs material. He got run because of a shitty attitude, refusing to re-enter a game, and constantly battling with Brian Hill. Who needs that shit?

[exstatic]

magic should let penny wear one and retire the number :lol

ps...i loved this dude back in his hay-day

My guess is that they "Tim Thomas" him. He hasn't been in NY for months because of rehabbbing from injuries, and basicly backstabbed Brian Hill last time around and got him fired.

[SoCalSpursFan]

Ironic...Penny and Starbury together....two great players who will never win a ring...

Sad.

[Despot]

Ironic...Penny and Starbury together

Sad.

That already happened.

[MI21]

I'm not upto date on the CBA, are the Knicks able to trade Francis on straight away or is there a time limit?

[Despot]

I'm not upto date on the CBA, are the Knicks able to trade Francis on straight away or is there a time limit?

I believe it could depend on the contract, but yes, they should be able to unload him if the wanted to. There is only a hold on a player who signed as a FA.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Francis is there to stay in NY. Wouldn't surprise me if Stephon got moved though

[Spurologist]

Steph,Crawford, and Francis should all start. It could really help them defensively

[SlasherX]

LOLz
http://atifonline.net/pistons/images/slr.jpg

[SpursIndonesia]

Well, Isiah was one heck of a SCORING PG in his time, so for him recruiting two of that kind for his project doesn't really surprise me. Perhaps he wants to press for a NEW kind of game, BASKETBALLS, with two ballhogs with their respective ball to play on in the same time :lol

[boutons_]

February 23, 2006

Sports of The Times

Knicks Look Like '71 Team, Only Different

By GEORGE VECSEY

IT'S kind of like the day Earl (the Pearl) Monroe moved up the seaboard from Baltimore to New York. Kind of. That is to say, the Knicks now have a glut of players with more or less the same skills and job description.

There is a scintilla of difference between now and Nov. 10, 1971. The Knicks back then were a great team. These Knicks, on the other hand, seemed to plunge even deeper into their own personal twilight zone yesterday when they acquired Steve Francis for what might be a telltale bargain cost.

With the newly acquired Francis in the building but not in uniform, the Knicks were trounced by Miami, 103-83, last night, with more boos echoing in the Garden and Coach Larry Brown telling the refs at one point, "Maybe we aren't very good, but we deserve a fair doggone call."

It doesn't work that way. Never has.

Starting Friday, the Knicks will put Francis and Stephon Marbury, the incumbent controller of the ball, into the same backcourt. It sounds remarkably like some sick reality show. They are not a great team right now, this season, this decade, this generation, and, dare we say it, this ownership by the Dolans of Cablevision fame.

Some of us are old enough to remember the communal fretting over what in the world the Knicks were going to do with Walt (Clyde) Frazier and Earl the Pearl in the same backcourt, to say nothing of Dick Barnett, the incumbent shooter. How could you divide three into two and make it work?

But it did work because the Knicks were loaded with mature, smart, skilled winners who learned to share the ball and do the dirty work together. Not exactly like these Knicks that Isiah Thomas has assembled before our stunned eyes.

It worked out in 1971 because Red Holzman had a grip on a team that included players like Reed, DeBusschere, Bradley, Lucas and Jackson — no first names needed — to say nothing of Frazier and Monroe.

It was Red's team, and he knew how to tweak it. He had won a championship in the spring of 1970, and he would win another one with Frazier and Monroe starting in the backcourt in 1972-73. That is ancient history, only worth resurrecting when somebody tries the same experiment in these modern times.

"Nobody thought Earl would fit in," said Larry Brown, who gets to coach this Fantasy Island experiment.

Pat Riley, making his return to the Garden in his second term as the Heat's coach, seemed bemused by the Knicks' willingness to acquire Francis, saying it indicated "a lot of deep pockets here, I guess." He also labeled Francis "a gift for the Knicks."

You know what they say about gift horses. The Knicks are willing to absorb Francis's contract (and ego and assorted issues with other teams) because they are desperate, just dying in public.

They gave up Trevor Ariza, who rarely played, and Penny Hardaway, who almost never suited up. Must be nice to be really rich. Anybody who subscribes to Cablevision can be delighted that the proceeds are going to subsidize frolics like this.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a lot of talent, even when the rules permit only one basketball in action at any given time. That was the big worry when Monroe stutter-stepped his way to the Garden.

But those people knew how to evade the defense, find the open man, make the simple shot — odd little skills not currently in fashion.

Other great teams have had plenty of talent in the backcourt, as Brown recalled last night, referring to the three-man tandem of Joe Dumars, Vinny Johnson and, yes, that Isiah Thomas of the Detroit Pistons. "They took the pressure off each other," Brown said.

These Knicks do not have that championship look. Francis said the politic things last night, including: "I'm just a ballplayer, man. It doesn't matter who brings the ball up."

But it does matter who runs the plays, who passes the ball, and who shoots. The Knicks have been remarkably unfocused this year, as Brown has seemed unable to pick a nucleus from the mismatched or overlapping players Thomas assembled. Nothing has worked, particularly while Marbury has been out with a sore shoulder during the recent losing streak. Thomas stressed Francis's career average of six rebounds a game, suggesting that the two guards could coexist doing different chores.

"Am I the person who can put it together?" Francis asked last night. "I hope."

These two activist guards could be a short-term experiment, anyway. Even Thomas and Brown are symptoms of an ownership grasping at straws.

Everybody is just passing through the Garden, like tourists, only instead of paying a few bucks for a glimpse of the World's Most Famous Arena, all these visitors are paid, and paid handsomely.

If Francis and Marbury don't work out, other players will come along. Just like Frazier and Monroe. Kind of.

E-mail: [email protected]

* Copyright 2006The New York Times Company

[Samr]

I feel dumber for reading this thread. Thanks Isiah!

[samikeyp]

and look how happy Larry Brown is! :lol

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nba/2006/0222/photo/a_francis_412.jpg

[samikeyp]

Who'll be no. 3?

Marbury....Francis will wear #8

[ShoogarBear]

LMAO at that photo.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

This has me laughing my ass off because about a week or two ago Steve Kerr ranked the Knicks dead last in the league and said,


If they can just trade for one more maximum salaried player who is well past his prime, they just might turn things around.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=sk-rankings021306&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The only possible explanation is that Isiah read this and took it to heart.

[Despot]

Marbury....Francis will wear #8

Francis decided to use #1

[Trainwreck2100]

http://www.yaysports.com/nba/images/isiah%20thomas%207.gif

[ZStomp]

Damn. Isiah is an idiot.

Wow.

Bonehead move after bonehead move.

[ZStomp]

I am pretty much befuddled with what New York has done.

I am not a great fan of Steve Francis. He rubbed me the wrong way when he came into the league and demanded that Vancouver trade him. He just isn't the type of player that can make your team better or that can get you where you are trying to get to. He is very talented, but his skills are built around his individual success and not around the success of a team.

Any time you take on such a brilliant nickname as "Franchise," that name has to have some validity behind it and I don't think he has shown that he is a franchise player. It is not going to work for him even moving to New York.

This is another in a long list of desperate moves for the Knicks, going back to the Eddy Curry deal. Eddy Curry's success coming to New York has been about as good as my success coming back to Chicago when my career was pretty much done. He hasn't made any impact on that team, which, I am sure for John Paxson, is the best thing to happen. He just let his No. 1 draft pick go and got another one back. It was a good wash for them, because they didn't lose that draft pick. They sort of gambled on it, played with it, let it go, but then they got it back.

Isiah has brought in players on top of players. He isn't giving one player an opportunity to succeed. You have Stephon Marbury there. Then you bring in Jamal Crawford. Now Steve Francis.

What are you going to do with these guys?

These are three guys that love to pound the basketball and create their own shots. Who is going to succeed at that position? To me it seems like they have just told Isiah to just go out there and continue to see if we can have the highest payroll.

I don't see any chemistry with New York. I don't see that trade helping the Knicks in any way and as for Orlando, they have written this season off and are preparing themselves to continue rebuilding their young team. They want to get guys in there that can in the next three or four years be part of what they have been able to establish.

It is going to be the same type of situation. A lot of it has to do with the individual players. Players in today's game are not geared for winning. They aren't geared for a team concept. They're basically trying to get into the game and they have no knowledge as to what the game is really about.

-Scottie Pippen

http://www.nba.com/news/movement_2006.html

[polandprzem]

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4042/salaries1dx.jpg

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

http://www.yaysports.com/nba/images/isiah%20thomas%207.gif


:lol