PDA

View Full Version : Insider Article Featuring Vince Young



Joepa
02-27-2006, 05:04 PM
The biggest buzz coming out of Indianapolis the last few days is the rumor that Texas QB Vince Young bombed his Wonderlic test. Rumor had Young scoring a 6 on the test.

While the results of his first test haven't been confirmed -- and combine officials have said the score of 6 was wrong -- ESPN.com's John Clayton reported that Young scored a 16 on his second try (according to his agent) and he's expected to take it a third time. The results of that test will not be released to NFL teams until next week, so it remains completely speculation at this point.

"The combine officials assured us that score (6) was false and that the accurate score will be known when the combine results are given to each team," Young's agent, Major Adams, said.


Houston general manager Charley Casserly told the Houston Chronicle: "I've been told it was inaccurate by a source good enough for me to quote it."



Harry How/Getty Images
Young's lofty draft position is in danger of taking a big hit.
Just as a barometer, the highest score registered at last year's scouting combine was a 40 (QB Alex Smith) and the lowest score was a 6 (RB Frank Gore). I also have been told by an NFL scout that the other two top quarterbacks this year fared much better on this test, with USC's Matt Leinart scoring a 35 (at the combine) and Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler scoring a 29 (in a test given prior to the combine).

If the initial rumors about Young's low test score were proven true, his draft stock stands to be significantly affected, especially with Cutler continuing to skyrocket up most teams' draft boards. When I asked one scout from the AFC if he thought Young would still be a top-five draft pick if the rumor turns out to be true, he answered, "Sure … as a wide receiver, though."

As expected, Cutler shined during his four days in Indianapolis. The only quarterback to voluntarily bench press at the combine in the last two years, Cutler put up the standard 225-pound bar 23 times. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.78 seconds and wowed the NFL brass in attendance with his strong arm and accuracy during the passing drills Sunday. Cutler's interviews have also impressed several interested teams, including the New Orleans Saints, who currently own the draft's second overall pick.

Despite all the quarterback hype in Indianapolis, the player who perhaps has improved his draft stock the most so far is Florida WR Chad Jackson. As an early entry into this year's draft class, Jackson was considered very much an enigma due to his somewhat inconsistent junior season and unknown measurables. However, Jackson put a lot of questions to rest this weekend when he notched the best 40-yard dash time (4.32 seconds) of any offensive prospect in attendance. In my opinion, Jackson ranks as the second-best receiver in this year's class, behind Ohio State's Santonio Holmes, and he is worth drafting around the middle of the first round.

With two of the four workout sessions completed, this has to be considered one of the best combines in recent years from a participation standpoint. Almost all of the defensive prospects are expected to work out during the final two sessions Monday and Tuesday, and a vast majority of the offensive prospects participated in all or some of the four-day process. The highest-rated prospects thus far to opt out of their workouts have been Young, Holmes, Leinart, OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson (Virginia), and RBs Reggie Bush (USC), LenDale White (USC) and DeAngelo Williams (Memphis). WR Jeremy Bloom understandably did not go through the position drills after recently returning from the Olympics in Torino, Italy, but he did run a somewhat disappointing 4.49 in the 40-yard dash.

One of the biggest stories of the weekend was Ohio State DT Mike Kudla, who tied the combine record with 45 reps on the 225-pound bench press. Right behind Kudla was Florida State DT Broderick Bunkley, who threw up 44 reps and looks chiseled at 6-foot-2¾ and 306 pounds. Bunkley is one of the fastest-rising defensive prospects right now and he could move into the middle first-round area with a strong showing during Monday's workout.

As a side note, agent Drew Rosenhaus continues to actively shop his most controversial client, WR Terrell Owens, during this week's event in Indianapolis. Most recently, Rosenhaus had the ear of Chiefs president/GM/CEO Carl Peterson for nearly an hour at Shula's Steakhouse Sunday afternoon.

The following is a more in-depth breakdown, by position, of this past weekend's combine results:

Quarterbacks
This year's quarterback crop looks more like wide receivers or running backs, as the six fastest quarterbacks all ran sub-4.6 40-yard dash times. Texas A&M's Reggie McNeal led the group with a time of 4.35 seconds and has many NFL scouts buzzing about his potential to play wide receiver and return kicks at the next level. The five other fastest include Virginia Tech's Marcus Vick (4.42), Missouri's Brad Smith (4.46), Georgia's D.J. Shockley (4.56), Texas State's Barrick Nealy (4.57) and Toledo's Bruce Gradkowski (4.59).

In a surprise move, Penn State's Michael Robinson elected not to work out at all. After struggling as a passer at the Senior Bowl and eventually running some routes as a receiver during the middle of the practice week, Robinson was expected to work out as a receiver at the combine. Instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to prove his versatility in front of all the NFL front office members and coaches inside the RCA Dome, Robinson has elected to roll the dice with just one viewing at Penn State's pro day in March.

There were reports that Clemson QB Charlie Whitehurst would not work out at this year's combine, but that was not the case. At 6-4½ and 223 pounds, Whitehurst showed up in good shape and put on the most impressive passing display of any of the quarterbacks not named Cutler. Whitehurst's performance will help his cause as he competes with Alabama's Brodie Croyle and Bowling Green's Omar Jacobs in the competition for the fourth quarterback in this year's draft class.

Smith and Shockley both struggled with their accuracy during the passing drills. Shockley has a bit of a stronger arm but his erratic throws continued after a similarly uninspiring showing during Senior Bowl week. Both Smith and Shockley need to strongly consider working out at different skill positions during their respective pro days in March.

Oregon QB Kellen Clemens, who suffered a season-ending ankle injury as a senior, is still recovering and was medically excused from working out.

Vick had an above-average showing on the field this weekend but the same cannot be said for his interviews. With a multitude of off-the-field issues clouding his draft status, Vick has been put through the ringer by designated interviewers from several NFL teams. Not only has Vick failed to properly explain his past actions, the general consensus is that he has come off as "arrogant" and "smug" during the interviews. Furthermore, a number of scouts that I have spoken with this week said their respective teams have already taken Vick off their draft boards.

Furman QB Ingle Martin, who began his career at Florida as a punter and reserve quarterback, registered the strongest arm strength (61 peak mph) of the quarterback group, which is measured on a JUGS machine. Cutler recorded the second strongest, just 1 mph behind Martin.

Running backs
Of all the offensive positions to go through the four-day combine process, running back was the worst in terms of participation. Six of the running backs opted out of their workouts -- three by their own choice and three because of injuries.

First-round prospect Laurence Maroney, who measured in at 5-11 and 217 pounds, cited an aggravated hamstring as his reason for not working out. Bush, White and Williams are the other first-round running back prospects in this year's class and all three chose to wait for their respective pro days to work out. White, who played in the Rose Bowl at 252 pounds, has trimmed down to 238 pounds but wants to be closer to 230 by the time he runs at USC's pro day April 2.



Joseph Addai's durability is an issue, but he impressed scouts with his speed.
UCLA's Maurice Drew (4.37) and LSU's Joseph Addai (4.40) ran the fastest 40-yard dash times of the running back crop. Drew's marginal size will hurt his draft stock but his explosive speed makes him even more intriguing as a versatile late day one prospect who can serve as a change-of-pace runner, receiver on third downs and return specialist in the NFL. Despite Addai's durability concerns, his impressive showing should help solidify him a spot in the draft's second round.

Fresno State RB Wendell Mathis just missed out on membership into the sub-4.4 club but he improved his draft stock this past weekend nonetheless. On top of running the 40-yard dash in 4.5 seconds, Mathis ranked atop or near the top of the running backs class in the three-cone drill (6.93), short shuttle (4.22), long shuttle (11.27), broad jump (9-9) and vertical jump (33 inches). The two knocks on Mathis were his lack of explosiveness and versatility. However, Mathis certainly proved that he has the athleticism and speed to go along with his size, power and low center of gravity in order to contribute as a north-south ball carrier in the NFL.

Just behind Drew and Addai were Florida State's Leon Washington, Mississippi State's Jerious Norwood, South Florida's Andre Hall (4.42), Virginia's Wali Lundy (4.45) and Washington State's Jerome Harrison (4.47). Of those five, Lundy had the best all-around showing. At 5-11 and 214 pounds, Lundy shows a lot of initial burst and reliable hands as a receiver. Washington also impressed with his hands, body control and balance during agility drills and individual position workouts.

Wisconsin RB Brian Calhoun, on the other hand, may have taken himself out of the running for the competition as the fifth running back in this year's strong running back class by posting a disappointing 40 time of 4.65.

Utah RB Quinton Ganther is a big, strong runner who impressed with 29 reps on the bench press. His lack of ideal speed and agility, however, are the reasons he grades out as nothing higher than a sixth-round prospect.

Wisconsin's Matt Bernstein had the best showing of the fullbacks in this year's crop. At 260 pounds, Bernstein ran a 4.87 40-yard dash.

Wide receivers
Including Jackson, there were four receivers who ran sub-4.4 times in the 40-yard dash at this year's combine. Florida State's Willie Reid recorded the second-fastest time (4.34), followed by Auburn's Devin Aromashodu (4.35) and Miami's Sinorice Moss (4.38). While Jackson stole the show, Aromashodu's 40 time proved to be the most shocking of the group, as most evaluators -- including myself -- were expecting him to run in the 4.5s.

The other top 40 times in this group came from BYU's Todd Watkins (4.40), San Diego State's Jeff Webb (4.40), Wisconsin's Jonathan Orr (4.41), Western Michigan's Greg Jennings (4.42), Arizona State's Derek Hagan (4.42) and LSU's Skyler Green (4.44).

Jennings, who led the nation with an average of 8.91 receptions per game last season, was another one of the big winners over the weekend. Jennings has great hands and is a solid route runner, but there were questions regarding his ability to separate from coverage versus faster defensive backs in the NFL. Those questions should be put to rest after Jennings ran the 40 in the 4.4s and finished with the second-best time of all the wide receivers in the long shuttle (11.15). His performance this week could wind up earning Jennings a spot late on day one of the draft.

Monmouth's Miles Austin (4.47) helped his stock with a good 40 time, but he had some trouble in the pass-catching drills, particularly when trying to handle Cutler's fastball.

After working out exclusively as a cornerback at the Senior Bowl, Boston College's Will Blackmon is wisely giving scouts a different look at him, playing the wide receiver position at the combine. Blackmon has explosive speed (4.46 seconds in the 40) and very good overall athleticism, as seen in his position bests in the three-cone drill (6.67) and broad jump (11-1). However, he lacks instincts as a cornerback and is unpolished as a route runner. Blackmon will probably get drafted for his return ability, and then he will need to find a position niche at the next level.

Aromashodu's teammate, Ben Obomanu, also turned in an impressive combine performance by running a 4.45 40-yard dash, while tying for a group best with a 38-inch vertical jump.

The short shuttle is a good tool for measuring a receiver's ability to change directions quickly, and judging by the results, Jackson (3.97) and Oklahoma's Travis Wilson (3.99) are two of the quickest receivers in this year's class. Making it even more impressive is that both Jackson (6-0, 213) and Wilson (6-2, 214) possess above-average size.

Virginia's Marques Hagans played quarterback in college but worked out as a wide receiver Sunday and looked far more comfortable than expected. Hagans checked in at 5-9 and 202 pounds and ran his 40-yard dash attempts in the 4.4s.

Maurice Stovall did not rank among the elite in any of the agility drills, but at 6-4 and 217 pounds, nobody expected him to. Stovall has taken off a lot of weight, which shows in his increased quickness and speed. He ran a very respectable 4.58 in the 40-yard dash and he showed solid hands during position drills.

Offensive linemen
Of the 53 offensive linemen participating in this year's combine, all but nine ran and four of those were medically excused.

USC OT Winston Justice had a lot of pressure on him entering the four-day combine process but he handled it better than most could have expected. Early entries typically have more to prove at the combine because this is their first opportunity to verify their "measurables." In Justice's case, he was under intense scrutiny during interviews due to a past that includes several off-the-field issues. By all accounts, Justice has matured tremendously since his season-long suspension in 2004 and he was able to ease many fears with the way he handled himself during his four days in Indianapolis. Justice also confirmed his first-round physical skills inside the RCA Dome, where he posted impressive marks in the short shuttle (4.53), three-cone drill (7.31) and broad jump (9-2). Barring any unforeseen setbacks, Justice should be the second offensive lineman selected in the draft behind Ferguson -- likely in the top 20 picks.

Pittsburgh OG Charles Spencer led all offensive linemen with 30 reps of the standard 225-pound bench press. Right behind Spencer was USC OG Fred Matua and Georgia OG Max Jean-Gilles (27).

Oklahoma's Chris Chester, who led all offensive linemen with an impressive 4.88 seconds in his 40-yard dash, may have helped his draft status more than any other offensive lineman at this year's combine. Chester is a versatile midround prospect with experience at all three offensive line positions, as well as tight end.

Seven other offensive linemen ran 40 times of under 5.10, including Miami's Eric Winston (4.94), East Carolina's Guy Whimper (4.95), Boston College's Pat Ross (4.96), Boise State's Daryn Colledge (5.04), Ohio State's Nick Mangold (5.05), TCU's Paul McQuistan (5.07) and Auburn's Marcus McNeill (5.07).

Of that group, Winston and Colledge were the big winners overall. Winston checked out physically and appears fully recovered from a season-ending knee injury in 2004. Colledge, on the other hand, comes from the mid-major ranks but continued to prove this weekend that he can hang with the big boys. He lacks ideal size (299 pounds) and explosive strength (just 21 reps on bench), but Colledge has very good mobility and he continues to improve his technique with more experience. Winston may have used the combine to sneak back into the bottom of the first round. Colledge may have earned a spot late in the second round thanks to his impressive showing.

As a side note, Ross' impressive speed will help his draft stock as a midround prospect, but he suffered a hamstring injury while running his first and only 40-yard dash attempt.

USC OG Deuce Lutui failed to post an elite 40-yard dash time but he impressed in many other -- and more important -- areas. One of the fastest-rising interior offensive linemen in the draft process right now, Lutui stood out as one of the quickest and most technically sound players during position drills. It wouldn't be shocking for Lutui to slip into the bottom of the first round in April's draft, but he still grades out as a second-round prospect on my board.

On the flip side, Michigan State OT Stefon Wheeler and Syracuse OT Quinn Ojinnaka failed to impress. Wheeler looks top-heavy and really struggles when it comes to getting out of his stance quickly and changing directions in space. He earned the honor of the slowest offensive lineman at this year's combine with a time of 5.75 seconds in the 40-yard dash. Auburn OT Troy Reddick barely nipped Wheeler out with a 5.72 40 time. Ojinnaka runs a little bit better downfield but he is not a natural knee bender, which stands out when he's asked to "mirror-and-slide" in pass blocking drills.

Finally, Ohio State's Mangold picked up at the combine right where he left off at the Senior Bowl. On top of his impressive showing in the 40-yard dash, he ran the fastest short shuttle (4.36) of the offensive linemen in attendance and also put up a more than respectable 24 reps on the bench press. Mangold has locked down the spot as top center drafted in 2006 and he should get swept up early in Round 2.

Joepa
02-27-2006, 05:11 PM
Holy crap Marino had a low score

Horry For 3!
02-27-2006, 05:11 PM
Brian Griese: 39


Ian Gold: 17


Deltha O'Neal: 15


John Elway: 30


Mike Anderson: 18


Dan Marino: 16


Drew Bledsoe: 37


Steve Young: 33


Brett Favre: 22


Troy Aikman: 29

young: 6 or 16

Marino got a 16 on his, same as Vince. And Marino turned out to be pretty damn good, hall of famer.

Joepa
02-27-2006, 05:14 PM
9 correct= 50 4 correct= 22
8 correct= 44 3 correct= 17
7 correct= 39 2 correct= 11
6 correct= 33 1 correct= 6
5 correct= 28 0 correct= 0

Thought they actually asked them 50 questions and the number you got right was your score.

Cant_Be_Faded
02-27-2006, 05:15 PM
Thanks

Horry For 3!
02-27-2006, 05:57 PM
he got a 6 first...and took it again.
if mario took it again he would/could have scored higher
That is only rumored that he got a 6 but no one can be certain. Most people have been saying that he didn't get a 6 because the guy who graded the test messed up.

Horry For 3!
02-27-2006, 05:58 PM
Stewart, Kordell 12
Hasselbeck, Matt 29
McNabb, Donovan 16, 12
Manning, Eli 39

* Pat McInally, punter — 50
* Kevin Curtis, wide receiver — 48
* Alex Smith, quarterback — 40
* Brian Griese, quarterback — 39
* Eli Manning, quarterback — 39
* Akili Smith, quarterback — 37 (suspected of cheating; scored 15 on first attempt)
* Matt Leinart, quarterback — 35
* Tom Brady, quarterback — 33
* Steve Young, quarterback — 33
* John Elway, quarterback — 30
* Mike Mamula, defensive end — 49
* Peyton Manning, quarterback — 28
* Troy Aikman, quarterback — 29
* Ben Roethlisberger, quarterback — 25
* David Carr, quarterback — 24
* Brett Favre, quarterback — 22
* Michael Vick, quarterback — 20
* Vinny Testaverde, quarterback — 18
* Antwaan Randle El, wide receiver — 17
* Dan Marino, quarterback — 16
* Vince Young, quarterback — 16 (unknown score on first attempt; rumored to be 6)
* Randall Cunningham, quarterback — 15
* Jeff George, quarterback — 10
I had him on my fantasy teams :smokin

Ginofan
02-27-2006, 06:25 PM
Vince Young = Akili Smith without the arm strength and technique.

Aggie Hoopsfan
02-27-2006, 07:10 PM
He gets to take it a third time? WTF?

I guess they figure if he sees the same questions 5-6 times he'll actually break 20.

Cant_Be_Faded
02-27-2006, 08:20 PM
Reggie McNeal

Mr Dio
02-27-2006, 09:08 PM
Reggie McNeal


Isn't that the guy that plays like 5 secondary positions because he wasn't any better than avg in his primary one?

Joepa
02-27-2006, 09:08 PM
Reggie runs a 4.35 40.

That's a fast QB.

Mr Dio
02-27-2006, 09:10 PM
I think VY runs a 4."I've been caught from behind once since high school" or a 4."Did you ask the Trojans or Wolverines how fast I am?" 40. That is only rumored though.

Cant_Be_Faded
02-27-2006, 09:36 PM
I would really like numbers on VY's times
Just to silence that old debate we all had about who was the 'best running qb of all ncaa time'

word
02-27-2006, 10:38 PM
http://photo.sing365.com/music/picture.nsf/Fleetwood-Mac-Mystery-To-Me-Cover/48256C71003578A24825696500132EFD/$file/Mystery+To+Me.jpg
The Original Wonderlic Test

word
02-27-2006, 10:51 PM
http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/F/fleetwood_mystf.jpg
Vince Being Tutored

Horry For 3!
02-27-2006, 11:55 PM
Former Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver/punter Pat McInally is the only known player to score a perfect 50. St. Louis Rams backup QB Ryan Fitzpatrick reportedly scored a 50, which was later discovered to be a 38 in a record-setting nine minutes. Both players attended Harvard University.

j-6
02-28-2006, 09:11 AM
A bandwagon Texas fan freaks out over VY hanging a single digit Wonderlic score. Real fans know that Greg Davis dumbed down the offense considerably for VY (go watch tape of the Applewhite/Simms era and you'll understand), and now the 05-06 Longhorns hold the national record for points scored and www.firegregdavis.com doesn't exist anymore.

In other words: Tailor your schemes around your personnel, not the other way around. You don't have to have a QB that makes six progressions and then throws the ball away when you have one that can run like his ass is on fire upfield if his three reads are covered. The Falcons originally did that for Vick until Mora decided to make him a drop back passer. Remember the playoff game at Lambeau?

Talent trumps everything. Even the Wonderlic.

One more thing...if Vince really scored a six, what did Ricky score? Or DJ?


Vince Young = Akili Smith without the arm strength and technique.

GMAFB. Did you watch Akili Smith his last season at Oregon, or his first seasons in Cincy, or are you going off regurgitated second-hand info? The only thing that Akili and Vince have in common is that they're black QB's.