Is Malik Rose the Best of All-Time?

[timvp]

Does Malik go down as the best and most important bench player in Spurs' history? If not, who does?

Questions.

[Kori Ellis]

Robert Horry. :)

[samikeyp]

Ed Nealy. :p

[SenorSpur]

Henry Ward - he was the MVP of the Spurs all-warmup team during the Gervin era.

[Horry For 3!]

Robert Horry. :)
I second this

[timvp]

Robert Horry. :)

Can't deny what he did last season but Rose played eight years in San Antonio. This is Horry's third year ... and that first year wasn't anything to brag about.

Now if he helps the Spurs to another championship or two, the case can be made.

:smokin

[nkdlunch]

Manu Ginobili in 2005 playoffs is the most important Spurs bench player ever.

[timvp]

Manu Ginobili in 2005 playoffs is the most important Spurs bench player ever.

Yeah, the three games he came off the bench. :sleep

[rayray2k8]

Robert Horry. :)
DITTO..
I dont remember seeing malik making game winning shots for us.
But i do miss malik :depressed

[nkdlunch]

Yeah, the three games he came off the bench. :sleep

exactly!

we would have lost that series if not

[MoSpur]

Are we talking about longevity?

[Peter]

He provided more off the bench than Radosoft has as a starter. It would be interesting to see how differently 1999 through 2003 would have gone without a dependable backup big on the team. Interesting, but I prefer to see the team win championships.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

I have a question- is timvp on acid, crystal meth or qualludes?

The love affair with Malik Rose continues to baffle me......it's right up there with Keannu Reeves continuing to land leading roles.....why?

[FromWayDowntown]

Those are difficult questions because bench players don't often hang around a franchise long enough (or don't remain bench players long enough) to make any sort of historical difference.

In terms of the Spurs' various franchise accomplishments, perhaps the three most vital bench players have been Jaren Jackson, Steve Kerr, and Robert Horry. None of those guys has a long Spurs resume like Malik had, but each of them had arguably larger -- and more direct -- roles in the Spurs titles. Just a thought.

Malik certainly wins the award for career service, though.

[ChumpDumper]

I have a question- is timvp on acid, crystal meth or qualludes?

The love affair with Malik Rose continues to baffle me......it's right up there with Keannu Reeves continuing to land leading roles.....why?So your vote is for....?

[texasqb2]

Did someone seriously state that Malik Rose might be the best/important bench player for the spurs of all-time?-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I guess I'll just wait for the Devin Brown comments, good gosh.

I guess I only care about bench players when we win the whole thing, so Robert Horry and Steve Kerr come to mind. Oh yeah, what about SPEEDY CLAXTON???

[Kori Ellis]

Speedy Claxton is probably the most overrated Spur of all time.

I'll never forget the year after the title people were raving about how he saved the Spurs over and over again throughout the season and postseason with his stellar 3 point shooting. :lol Meanwhile, he never hit a 3 in a Spurs uniform.

Speedy did a good job here (when he could stay healthy), but he's definitely overrated by a lot of Spurs fans.

[texasqb2]

Speedy Claxton is probably the most overrated Spur of all time.

I'll never forget the year after the title people were raving about how he saved the Spurs over and over again throughout the season and postseason with his stellar 3 point shooting. :lol Meanwhile, he never hit a 3 in a Spurs uniform.

Speedy did a good job here (when he could stay healthy), but he's definitely overrated by a lot of Spurs fans.

I just remember Parker choking in the Nets series and he saved our butts

[Kori Ellis]

So two games makes him great?

[Kori Ellis]

In Malik's eight (?) years here what did he average 8 and 6?

I think there's probably a bench player that was here for more than a couple years who averaged that, isn't there?

[texasqb2]

So two games makes him great?

Found this story, haha, here's going overboard

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2003/story?id=1568514

I just remember Speedy helping us win the title, I can't remember Malik every having that direct effect on that big of a game

[pache100]

Amal McCaskill

:lmao

[Peter]

Malik provided the Spurs with consistent play off the bench as the primary reserve bigman for 5 straight seasons, which included two championship runs. He averaged 10.4 pts and 6.4 rebs in 24.5 minutes a night in '02-'03. Spurs fans would nut all over themselves if a certain Slovene center put up those kind of numbers today. Malik's play was all the more vital due to DRob's ever present back injury flareups. Remember when Malik started in place of DRob against the Sonics ('02 I think)? Remember when he ripped the Mavs a new one in the '03 playoffs? How about when it was him and not Will Perdue backing up TD and DRob in the '99 Finals? Think he wasn't vital then?

Spurs fans who hate on Malik Rose have no appreciation for how the 1st two championship banners that hang in the SBC, er Verizon, er Sprint, er...whatever center got there. You people disgust me.

[texasqb2]

Malik provided the Spurs with consistent play off the bench as the primary reserve bigman for 5 straight seasons, which included two championship runs. He averaged 10.4 pts and 6.4 rebs in 24.5 minutes a night in '02-'03. Spurs fans would nut all over themselves if a certain Slovene center put up those kind of numbers today. Malik's play was all the more vital due to DRob's ever present back injury flareups. Remember when Malik started in place of DRob against the Sonics ('02 I think)? Think he wasn't vital then?

Spurs fans who hate on Malik Rose have no appreciation for how the 1st two championship banners that hang in the SBC, er Verizon, er Sprint, er...whatever center got there. You people disgust me.

Yeah and he couldn't successfully play defense on anyone taller than him, which is just about everyone in the league who plays PF.

[Peter]

Yeah and he couldn't successfully play defense on anyone taller than him, which is just about everyone in the league who plays PF.


Bullshit. He guarded bigger players all the time. He always saw substantial minutes against Shaq. Be gone.

[MrChug]

Dunno...it's weird. If we rank importance relevant to our most successful times who impacted our success in such a way that history would have been MUCH different without him:

Speedy Claxton
Robert Horry
Steve Kerr

[travis2]

I'm not a Malik hater, but I don't think he was the most important...

I'd say Steve Kerr, closely followed by Robert Horry...

[Peter]

Neither Kerr nor Horry provided the consistent play over such a long period. Horry has a chance to do so. Kerr knocking down shots in one game to me isn't as important, though they were huge shots.

[Duncanoypi]

Bateer Menk ...

kidding aside...i go for Robert Horry...

[travis2]

Neither Kerr nor Horry provided the consistent play over such a long period. Horry has a chance to do so. Kerr knocking down shots in one game to me isn't as important, though they were huge shots.

One game??? Oh puhleeeze...now you're acting like those whom you complain about...

[ChumpDumper]

C'mon, it's pretty obviously Malik. You guys have short memories.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Neither Kerr nor Horry provided the consistent play over such a long period. Horry has a chance to do so. Kerr knocking down shots in one game to me isn't as important, though they were huge shots.

Horry had a role in 03 championship and 05 championship

[polandprzem]

Yup - Malik was a warrior (not from GS), but he was batteling and doing his best. And he was the first frontcourt player of the bench. Unbelivable.

In the years I remember he he have my vote that is Robert then is Kerr then is Jaren and then is Gino AD 2003, but maybe I'm forgoting somebody

[polandprzem]

Shit :cuss I can't even wright two sentences correct :pctoss

[timvp]

Spurs fans have the shortest memories. In 2003 versus the Suns, the Spurs don't make it out of the first round without Rose. Robinson was banged up and even missed a game in that series? Remember?

In Game Five with the series tied 2-2, Rose scored 27 points, pulls down 13 rebounds in 29 minutes. That came off of a Game Four where Rose put up ten points and 14 rebounds. In that same game, the great Manu Ginobili scored zero points in 23 minutes. For the series, Rose averaged 13.8 points and 8.7 in 26.2 minutes per game.

In the series versus the Lakers, much like in 1999, Rose did a good job guarding Shaq. That freed up Duncan and company to do their magic.

Versus the Mavericks, Rose gets knocked out (literally) in Game One and the Spurs go on to lose. Facing a must win Game Two, Rose puts up 25 points on 11 shots to lead the Spurs to victory. In Game Six, where Spurs fans only remember Steve Kerr hitting wide open threes, they forget that Rose's 12 points and 11 rebounds while playing the whole fourth quarter was arguably a bigger reason for the victory.

Spurs fans remember the two good quarters of basketball Kerr played for the Spurs in the playoffs. They remember the couple good minutes Speedy played. However, they forget the huge role Rose played on two championship teams. Why? Not sure, but probably their judgement is clouded by how his tenure with the Spurs ended.

[ChumpDumper]

Horry had a role in 03 championship and 05 championshipWell he did clank alot of jumpers for the Lakers in 03 if you want to call that a contribution to the Spurs.

[timvp]

Kerr played about ten good minutes of basketball for the Spurs. He sucked 99.9% of his time with team. How is he even in this conversation?

[Peter]

Kerr played about ten good minutes of basketball for the Spurs. He sucked 99.9% of his time with team. How is he even in this conversation?


Because he's Steve Kerr. Why does Radoslav have a following in SA? I don't know nor pretend to understand.

[polandprzem]

Kerr played about ten good minutes of basketball for the Spurs. He sucked 99.9% of his time with team. How is he even in this conversation?
Well - he was backup PG in 1999

[Peter]

Well - he was backup PG in 1999


Yeah and I remember when Portland was leaving him open in the '99 WCF.

[timvp]

In the '99 playoff run, Kerr shot 27% from the field. His three-point percentage was south of 20, IIRC. In the '03 playoffs, he hit 7 shots.

Total.

The legend of Steve Kerr is amazing :spin

[polandprzem]

The legend of Steve Kerr is amazing :spin

yup :)
]
Okay so I will move him to the spot numba five on my list.

(List still in progress)

[pache100]

Stevie's so cute, though...in a retro Huck-Finn-kind-of-way. :depressed


No one can touch Malik's longevity, yet. If Horry decides to play hero for the Spurs one more time I might give him my vote, but for now it goes to Malik.

http://i2.tinypic.com/os4cvt.gif

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Timvp, I think you're dead on as to why there a lack of Malik love in this thread. Kerr retired while the memory of his contributions were fresh. Malik left after a protracted and rather public stint in Pop's dog house and his worst play here (which one caused the other is still topic of debate). It's just like an old western. Which ending would the fans rather see? One where the sheriff rides into town, clears out the outlaws, and rides off into the sunset? Or one where the sheriff settles down, opens a restaurant, then falls out of favor with the mayor after his gun jams thwarting a bank robbery, causing him to pull his chaps over his face, at which point the robbers jump on their horses and make an easy getaway?

No one can touch Malik's longevity, yet. If Horry decides to play hero for the Spurs one more time I might give him my vote, but for now it goes to Malik.

[BigVee]

Kerr's legacy is for obvious reasons. You simply don't expect someone to sit on their ass for months on end and then be put into an enormous spot with the season on the line and come through with the clutch shots he hit. Granted not that many, but HUGE. Timing is everything.

Rose, however is the correct choice.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Personally I think that Kerr's legend lives on around here because it allows so many of us who sit around typing all day to say that our level of athletic ability is on par with one of the greatest bench players ever.

[Peter]

Kerr's legacy is for obvious reasons. You simply don't expect someone to sit on their ass for months on end and then be put into an enormous spot with the season on the line and come through with the clutch shots he hit. Granted not that many, but HUGE. Timing is everything.


Malik was huge in multiple playoff games across a number of years, as well as being a consistent part of the rotation for years. I look at Kerr as I do at Claxton. Sure, both hit big shots at key points in the postseason, but that doesn't equate to being a consistent contributor plus multiple big playoff games. With DRob's back so iffy those last few seasons, Rose's play was all the more important.

[timvp]

Kerr hit a couple wide open shots with the worst defender in the modern era (Steve Nash) "guarding" him. It was a great game and he hit the shots when it mattered, but honestly Stephen Jackson and Malik Rose were bigger keys of that victory.

Kerr wouldn't crack my top ten list of most important bench players of the Spurs three championship teams.

[Peter]

The thing that amazes me is how Spurs fans dump on guys who were vital to championship runs and the team's success across multiple seasons like AJ and Malik, yet are so willing to jock guys who saw only a cup of coffee in SA.

[Joepa]

I gotta say Malik here. I agree that no one else really comes close, except maybe Horry.

[MrChug]

Dunno...it's weird. If we rank importance of a bench contributor relevant to our most successful times and WHO impacted our success in such a way that history would have been MUCH different without him:

Speedy Claxton
Robert Horry
Steve Kerr
Jaren Jackson (1999 only :p)

[Peter]

Yeah, where's the Jaren Jackson love? Man, if he had left the team after the '99 championship run Spurs fans would probably have minature statuettes of him on their dashboards.

[timvp]

Dunno...it's weird. If we rank importance of a bench contributor relevant to our most successful times and WHO impacted our success in such a way that history would have been MUCH different without him:

Speedy Claxton
Robert Horry
Steve Kerr
Jaren Jackson (1999 only :p)

Horry and Jackson :tu

Claxton played well enough in the 2003 for a top ten placement. Kerr played like 35 minutes total in the 2003 playoffs and sucked in the 1999 playoffs. Kerr belongs more in the Kevin Willis type company.

[timvp]

Yeah, where's the Jaren Jackson love? Man, if he had left the team after the '99 championship run Spurs fans would probably have minature statuettes of him on their dashboards.

:lol

Yeah, Jackson is up there. Spurs don't win it in 1999 without him. He sucked after that but he hit enough big shots in 1999 to receive a nomination.

:smokin

[leemajors]

In the '99 playoff run, Kerr shot 27% from the field. His three-point percentage was south of 20, IIRC. In the '03 playoffs, he hit 7 shots.

Total.

The legend of Steve Kerr is amazing :spin

his rings are blinding.

[timvp]

If you trace the success of the '99 team back to the '95 team, then the name Chuck Person should enter into the mix.

:smokin

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao at all the haters.

Pretty soon we'll be hearing about how it was actually Manu who dunked on Mutumbo.

[jcrod]

Will Perdue :drunk

Right now Rose is because he was the man backup for two rings. If Horry helps us win this yr he'll be right there with Rose.

But you can't forgot about JJ, and Kerr.

[slayermin]

If you trace the success of the '99 team back to the '95 team, then the name Chuck Person should enter into the mix.

:smokin

I was wondering why no one mentioned The Rifleman. He deserves to be in the conversation. His three point range was amazing to me, especially when he was hot.

[whottt]

No way was Claxton a bigger part of the 03 title than Kerr...2 games? More like one game Speedy made a difference in...the final one, when he was left wide open from 10 feet out....even with that he still made a couple of bonehead TO's that could have proved fatal if not for a fortuitous bounce to the Admiral.

Sorry but Kerr was far and away more important to the 03 title than Claxton...and Kerr's Spurs career being a disppointment had as much to do with Pop not letting him get comfortable as it did with any flaws in Kerr's ability...Kerr seemed to play just fine under the intense pressure of the Jordan expectation. He never got a chance to matter until 03...and even that was due to Tim Duncan more than Pop.



Malik is the no brainer best bench player in Spurs history...

After that I'd say it's Jaren Jackson...remember...he outclutched Horry in 99. He was the difference against the Lakers...who would go on to win the next 3 titles.

Then it's probably a tossup between Manu or Horry. Manu was pretty important in 03...

Horry is probably the best bench player of all time in terms of winning titles...but he's just not that for the Spurs...he prolly won't ever be.

[Ishta]

My vote goes to Malik without a doubt. Following closely behind is Robert Horry!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Kerr wouldn't crack my top ten list of most important bench players of the Spurs three championship teams.

I'd like to see that list.

[BigVee]

Part of the Kerr love is because he did things that even the most uneducated fan could see....hitting a shot and the crowd goes wild. Malik did tons of stuff defensively, O rebounds, etc. that not everyone might appreciate.

[Peter]

Part of the Kerr love is because he did things that even the most uneducated fan could see....hitting a shot and the crowd goes wild. Malik did tons of stuff defensively, O rebounds, etc. that not everyone might appreciate.


...or like AJ, providing strong leadership on and off the court.

[1Parker1]

I'll tell ya what...I'd almost rather have Malik Rose than NVE or Brent Barry :oops

[sa_butta]

Id have to say a tie between Steve Kerr and Robert Horry, two of our greatest clutch shooters off the bench.

[picnroll]

Assuming Malik is the best sixth man in Spurs history name a longstanding franchise, as long as the Spurs, who cannot lay claim to having a better all-time sixth man than Malik Kind of makes me realize how the Spurs' depth has sucked over the years.

[Peter]

Assuming Malik is the best sixth man in Spurs history name a longstanding franchise, as long as the Spurs, who cannot lay claim to having a better all-time sixth man than Malik Kind of makes me realize how the Spurs' depth has sucked over the years.


Were you expecting a Bill Walton or a Bob McAdoo?

[sanman53]

I was thinking 1995 when Moses Malone was in a Spurs uniform. Now THAT man defines GREATNESS in a Spurs uniform! That shot he made from halfcourt that year made a BIG difference in the season.


Haha

I have to go with Malik, in all seriousness. The fact that he would guard some bigs while he was here made me respect him. He was a little big man.

[SoCalSpursFan]

Robert Horry. :)


Ding Ding Ding. Winner Here! :elephant

[scott]

Steve Kerr.

[SouthernFried]

I'm going way back...before the championship years.

But, Ed "Helicopter" Jones was my all-time favorite 6th man the Spurs had. You had to see him, to appreciate it. Kinda built like Gervin...but was a dunker, not a finger-roller. Lotta fun to watch.

[T Park]

Malik Rose.

Hands down, far and away.

Steve Kerr in the playoffs had 1 good game.

Thats it, thats all.

And no it wasn't pop's fault, I find it hard to believe its his fault for Kerr missing multiple open oppurtunities.


Speedy Claxton?

Another 1 game wonder, name me games other than game 6 VS New Jersey, were Speedy bailed out the team.

You can't, only game where Parker was terrible in 03 was against Dallas, and that was after getting poisned for god's sake.


Malik Rose was the reason they won game 2 VS Dallas.

Game 2 against Phoenix, wich BTW, was not a blowout ala games 2 vs Lakers and Mavericks, was was significantly helped in the win by Malik Rose and Danny Ferry, and even then they BARELY squeeked it out.

Rose in the Phoenix series kept up with Stoudamire a little better than Robinson, who had back problems and foul trouble through out.

Whos dunk was the exclamation point for the 03 Finals? Malik.


Malik started going down hill the next season for some reason, who knows.

Im sure thats pop's fault as well.

I don't understand the overrated myths of Steve Kerr, Speedy Claxton, Will Perdue, and others.


Rose
JJ
Horry

shit, Id even put Jerome Kersey ahead of guys like Willis, Kerr, and Claxton.

[MI21]

Malik was the fuckin shit. He did it all for the Spurs, regular season or playoffs..

http://espn.starwave.com/media/nba/2003/0521/photo/g_rose_hi.jpg

Whether it be hustling...

http://www.origo.hu/i/0306/20030614drobinson.jpg

...or pumping his team mates up...

http://sports.espn.go.com/media/nba/2003/0611/photo/a_rose_vt.jpg

or making the big offensive play...

http://amarillo.com/images/headlines/032103/spursLR.jpg

...or defending players "out of his league"...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/specials/spurschamps/slideshows/spurslakersgame6/images/5.jpg

...to putting it all on the line against far bigger players...

Malik did everything asked of him. I would agree that in my time watching the Spurs, he has been the best bench player. Some of his performances in the 2002 and 2003 playoffs are my most memorable performances by a Spurs.

Wish you were still a Spur, 'Lik.

[MI21]

I just remember Parker choking in the Nets series and he saved our butts

Yeah, outplaying Kidd in games 1 and 3 was an extreme choke job. Splitting the matchup in game 2 and playing well in Game 5 was too. Parker had 2 bad games. He was 21 and playing against one of the best PG's ever. Kidd won the matchup, but it was closer than anyone should care to imagine considering Tony's age, the pressure and who he was against.



Speedy Claxton?

Another 1 game wonder, name me games other than game 6 VS New Jersey, were Speedy bailed out the team.

I'm not going to say he bailed the team out, but he was useful the whole playoffs. Dallas was his worst series, but Parker was dropping 20/6 on Nash's ass through 5 games until he got sick for Game 6. Speedy had some very good moments against Phoenix, particuly game 2. Tony was playing like shit, and Speedy came up huge in a very important game. He was an important player that year.

[timvp]

15 Best Bench Player of the David Robinson/Tim Duncan Era
1. Malik Rose -- A vital part of two championships.
2. Robert Horry -- Historic performance in the 2005 playoffs.
3. Jaren Jackson -- Legendary 1999 playoff run.
4. Chuck Person -- Hit 457 three-pointers in his three years in San Antonio.
5. Antonio Daniels -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Routinely played well in the playoffs.
6. Will Perdue -- Provided muscle next to Tim and Dave.
7. Terry Porter -- Was a team leader for his three-year stint in San Antonio.
8. Antoine Carr -- Three seasons in San Antonio averaging just under 11 points per game.
9. Brent Barry -- Hit big shots during the 2005 playoffs.
10. Danny Ferry -- Two year stint highlighted by his playoff saving Game Two of the 2003 playoffs.
11. Steve Kerr -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Hit big shots in 2003 playoffs.
12. Jerome Kersey -- Gave the Spurs toughness for two seasons.
13. Speedy Claxton -- Injured most of his season in San Antonio but played well in 2003 playoffs.
14. Doc Rivers -- Was a good role player in his two seasons of action for the Spurs.
15. Devin Brown -- Played parts of three seasons in San Antonio. Big in 2004 playoffs.

[T Park]

Id switch Brent Barry with Terry Porter.

Porter wasn't all together good in his 2 times in the POs.

[T Park]

Kidd won the matchup, but it was closer than anyone should care to imagine considering Tony's age, the pressure and who he was against.



games 1,3,5, would disagree with you.

BTW,


Heres my top five playoff guys


Malik
Horry
Jackson
Stephen Jackson
Doc Rivers


people forget how big Doc was in 95 against Houston, keeping them in game 6, helping them win the other games.

[MI21]

^^Huh?^^

Games 1,2,3,5 were all good games for Tony?

I don't understand what you are saying?

Anyhoo, I don't want to derail the thread. It's about bench players and Malik, not starters :)

[T Park]

Yeah game 2 VS New Jersey was a good game for Parker.

Rewatch the film, he singlehandidly brought the team back and had a great 1 on 1 battle with Kidd going.


Jackson hits that three, Spurs win in 5, Parker's dynasty is a whole hell of alot different.

[MI21]

Oh good, I agree with you. I thought you were saying Tony didn't play well in Games 1,2,3,5.

My fault.

[T Park]

Ive been one of the few defending Tony Parker tooth and nail on this forum.

[grjr]

Id switch Brent Barry with Terry Porter.

Porter wasn't all together good in his 2 times in the POs.

Can anybody think of Porter and not see him falling down on that out of bounds play?

[SequSpur]

Malik Rose sucks.

[slayermin]

Malik Rose sucks.

:lol

And Nazr rulz.

[Trainwreck2100]

Antoine Carr

[SequSpur]

:lol

And Nazr rulz.

Nazr is better than Rasho...

That is important.

There have been alot of important bench players. Just because Malik was here for a few years doesn't mean shit, have of that time he never played.

[SequSpur]

Tony Parker is the best player on the Spurs.

2006.

[sanman53]

Antoine Carr


That made me laugh out loud!

[ShoogarBear]

No way was Claxton a bigger part of the 03 title than Kerr...2 games? More like one game Speedy made a difference in...the final one, when he was left wide open from 10 feet out....even with that he still made a couple of bonehead TO's that could have proved fatal if not for a fortuitous bounce to the Admiral.

Sorry but Kerr was far and away more important to the 03 title than Claxton...and Kerr's Spurs career being a disppointment had as much to do with Pop not letting him get comfortable as it did with any flaws in Kerr's ability...Kerr seemed to play just fine under the intense pressure of the Jordan expectation. He never got a chance to matter until 03...and even that was due to Tim Duncan more than Pop.



Malik is the no brainer best bench player in Spurs history...

After that I'd say it's Jaren Jackson...remember...he outclutched Horry in 99. He was the difference against the Lakers...who would go on to win the next 3 titles.

Then it's probably a tossup between Manu or Horry. Manu was pretty important in 03...

Horry is probably the best bench player of all time in terms of winning titles...but he's just not that for the Spurs...he prolly won't ever be.Who the fuck is this n00bbb?

[1Parker1]

Brent.....I mean Whott, you're back!!! We missed ya, where you been hiding?

[Willinsa]

Kerr played about ten good minutes of basketball for the Spurs. He sucked 99.9% of his time with team. How is he even in this conversation?

Yeah Kerr won how many rings?? So you would pick Malik over Kerr in the clutch. I think we need to let Malik go, he sucked and we all need to move on that he is no longer here.

If you talk with anyone outside of Texas if they would prefer Malik or Kerr, I dont think many people know who the hell Malik Rose is or what he ever did as a player. As for Kerr he just won 5 rings.

So in concluision Malik sucks let's leave it at that. :pctoss

[slayermin]

Nazr is better than Rasho...

That is important.

There have been alot of important bench players. Just because Malik was here for a few years doesn't mean shit, have of that time he never played.

I really do think Nazr rulz. Nasty Nazr.

I agree with the contingent here that consider Malik Rose the best bench player in the Robinson/Duncan era. The dunk over Mutumbo in the '03 Finals made a huge emotional impact to change the mojo. One of my favorite games was his career high at Milwaukee. He dominated that game as if he was Sir Charles. He had 34 points and nine rebounds with the Admiral out of the lineup. TD went 25 and 15 but 6 to's.

Spurs won 105-102. It was a SPAM game and in the middle of a six game winning streak. To take the ramifications of this game to another level, the six game winning streak ended, three games before an eleven game winning streak. Between March 6th and April 11th, the Spurs went 18-2.

Horry and Jaren should be two and three. Timvp's list looks good to me.

[timvp]

Yeah Kerr won how many rings?? So you would pick Malik over Kerr in the clutch. I think we need to let Malik go, he sucked and we all need to move on that he is no longer here.

If you talk with anyone outside of Texas if they would prefer Malik or Kerr, I dont think many people know who the hell Malik Rose is or what he ever did as a player. As for Kerr he just won 5 rings.

So in concluision Malik sucks let's leave it at that. :pctoss

Kerr sucked in '99 and made 7 shots in the '03 playoffs. Look through the legend that is Steve Kerr.

For the Bulls, that's totally different. Kerr had a much larger and more important role with them. On the Spurs, he was useless 99% of the time.

[scott]

It's not about what Steve Kerr did on the court... it was just important to have either Steve Kerr or Robert Horry on your team. 11 of the past 12 NBA champions can attest...

No Kerr = no championships in 99 or 03 for the Spurs.

[ShoogarBear]

No Kerr = no championships in 99 or 03 for the Spurs.03 I'll give you, but I call bullshit on 99.

[scott]

11 of 12 Larry O'Brien trophies can't be wrong...

[polandprzem]

15 Best Bench Player of the David Robinson/Tim Duncan Era
1. Malik Rose -- A vital part of two championships.
2. Robert Horry -- Historic performance in the 2005 playoffs.
3. Jaren Jackson -- Legendary 1999 playoff run.
4. Chuck Person -- Hit 457 three-pointers in his three years in San Antonio.
5. Antonio Daniels -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Routinely played well in the playoffs.
6. Will Perdue -- Provided muscle next to Tim and Dave.
7. Terry Porter -- Was a team leader for his three-year stint in San Antonio.
8. Antoine Carr -- Three seasons in San Antonio averaging just under 11 points per game.
9. Brent Barry -- Hit big shots during the 2005 playoffs.
10. Danny Ferry -- Two year stint highlighted by his playoff saving Game Two of the 2003 playoffs.
11. Steve Kerr -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Hit big shots in 2003 playoffs.
12. Jerome Kersey -- Gave the Spurs toughness for two seasons.
13. Speedy Claxton -- Injured most of his season in San Antonio but played well in 2003 playoffs.
14. Doc Rivers -- Was a good role player in his two seasons of action for the Spurs.
15. Devin Brown -- Played parts of three seasons in San Antonio. Big in 2004 playoffs.

Good list by timvp.
I agree with tyhe top3 and the rest is more or less equaly.

[rwb]

I'd go with Malik...not just because of his bench play and his longevity, but for being an important part of the team and the city. And I agree with Kori--Speedy Claxton gets too much credit.

[travis2]

Give me a fucking break...you put Jaren Jackson at #3 and Kerr at #11?

I think Kori needs to know you have a man-love relationship with Jackson.

[ShoogarBear]

This is bullshit. Where is Mengke Bateer?

[polandprzem]

This is bullshit. Where is Mengke Bateer?

In China


probably

[Solid D]

I'd say over the course of the Spurs history, even going back to the old Dallas Chaps (I went to a few of their games as a kid), that Malik Rose was the most important player off the bench from a longevity standpoint. He was the first "big" off the bench for many years, toggling between David and Tim through 2003, and he really contributed more to the Spurs' success in the playoffs in '99 than did Will Perdue (Pop sat Will the entire Knicks series). Only until Robert Horry beat Malik out, did he not have the role of 1st "big" off the bench in Pop's rotation after 1999.

If you were to give an NBA Playoffs Spurs' 6th Man Award, I would have to say Jaren Jackson in '99, Manu Ginobili in '03, and Robert Horry in '05. Malik Rose, however, was a consistent 6th man over the course of at least 6 seasons (1998-99 through 2003-04).

Just from a sheer energy and key contributor "6th man" standpoint, I would also want to mention Mike Gale - who backed up Jimmy Silas. That guy could really play and he played defense, too. Also Coby Dietrick and Paul Griffin were major contributors off the bench for 3 or 4 years - Coby had starter's minutes some of that time.

The Spurs didn't really have any consistency off the bench in the '80s.

Steve Kerr deserves special mention because, like Robert Horry, he did a lot of little things to help the Spurs in the first two championships. A key steal, hustling down a long rebound, spacing the floor, hitting timely shots to turn momentum. It was all there. There were at least 3 playoff games I can think of in '03 where the Spurs just flat-out would not have won without Steve (@ Dallas, @ NJ and then again at home vs. NJ. Not to mention he played a major role in the Rodeo Road Trip success filling in remarkably well for the injured Speedy Claxton.

Malik gets my vote.

[CharlieMac]

Dunno...it's weird. If we rank importance relevant to our most successful times who impacted our success in such a way that history would have been MUCH different without him:

Speedy Claxton
Robert Horry
Steve Kerr

That's a good list there.

[ShoogarBear]

In China


probably

Oh, no! Then what's Jimmy Chang doing?

[Peter]

Rose has the longevity + postseason success. I'm not sure why Kerr gets any cred for '99. He was an awesome mascot back then, though.

[polandprzem]

Oh, no! Then what's Jimmy Chang doing?
Who is Jimmy Chang?

[pache100]

Tony Parker is the best player on the Spurs.

2006. http://i2.tinypic.com/ot293a.gif

[pache100]

Yeah Kerr won how many rings?? :pctoss

It's irrelevant how many rings he won. I don't care about Robert Horry's first five rings, and I don't care about Steve Kerr's first three. The only ones that count to me, and that are relevant to this conversation IMO, are the ones they won with the Spurs.

That's 2 for Malik and 2 for Steve Kerr. So, you have to consider something else besides the number of Spurs Championship rings they have. In that case, based on overall contributions, Malik wins, hands-down.

P.S. I think timvp's list is pretty much right on the money. The only changes I'd make is to switch Chuck Person and Will Perdue.

[ShoogarBear]

Who is Jimmy Chang?

He was the guy the Spurs hired to translate for Bateer in 2002-2003. Basically, he was just a guy who knew a little hoops and could speak Mandarin. And he got front-row seats for most of the year.

[polandprzem]

He was the guy the Spurs hired to translate for Bateer in 2002-2003. Basically, he was just a guy who knew a little hoops and could speak Mandarin. And he got front-row seats for most of the year.
I remember that some guy was for translation but you remembering his name is wow

[Willinsa]

I always wonder why so many people think we are a damn cowtown, everybody loves a crappy player (Mailik) and think he is god. The guy hustled yes, but he could not shoot if a freakin gun was put next to his head.

We I mentioned Kerr it was because he hit some clutch shots in Game 6 of the 03 West Finals, so Kerr won us that game. How many games did Malik win in the Clutch?? I think it was zero.

Next thing you know we will want his jersey retired along with Avery's, if these things ever happened the Spurs would be the laughing stock of the NBA. Only in SA would crappy players be thought of so much.

[pache100]

I always wonder why so many people think we are a damn cowtown,

I know why people always think we are a "damn cowtown". Posts like that http://i2.tinypic.com/otes2e.gif

[Peter]

I always wonder why so many people think we are a damn cowtown, everybody loves a crappy player (Mailik) and think he is god. The guy hustled yes, but he could not shoot if a freakin gun was put next to his head.

We I mentioned Kerr it was because he hit some clutch shots in Game 6 of the 03 West Finals, so Kerr won us that game. How many games did Malik win in the Clutch?? I think it was zero.


This thread isn't about the most clutch player it was about the best bench player ever. Outside of that one offseason Kerr amounted to very little in SA, save for an engaging personality.

Malik came up huge in the postseason several times, as pointed out above. Maybe he didn't hit a late shot but the Spurs certainly benefited from his play in opportune times in playoff series. In a number of games he provided scoring and double digit rebounding totals. He played well when called upon to start due to DRob's iffy back.

He was also a rotation mainstay as the primary bigman reserve for years, putting up numbers that the Spurs' current two top centers would be hard pressed to duplicate.

All you offer is a couple of games in one postseason in which Kerr was important as well as a flurry of insults. I guess you need the insults to make it seem as though your point is valid. Frankly it just makes those who disagree with you all the more correct.




Next thing you know we will want his jersey retired along with Avery's, if these things ever happened the Spurs would be the laughing stock of the NBA. Only in SA would crappy players be thought of so much.

Only in SA would Spurs fans hate those who were so valuable while propping those up who weren't major contributors.

[timvp]

Give me a fucking break...you put Jaren Jackson at #3 and Kerr at #11?

I think Kori needs to know you have a man-love relationship with Jackson.

Um, Jaren Jackson in the 1999 playoffs did more than Kerr did in his four years as a Spur. Kerr shot 27% in the 1999 playoffs and made seven shots in the 2003 playoffs. In the regular season, he was pretty horrible save for a stretch in the 2003 season.

What Spurs Basketball were you watching?

[kskonn]

was mario elie a starter? I do not remember.

[kskonn]

Originally I would have said Horry because I think he is a solid player despite he insane ability to hit the big shot---(or have an once in a lifetime quarter in our case)

I will also admit that I am not a Malik fan, I never was but after reading some of the arguments I think my vote would have to go his way.

[travis2]

Um, Jaren Jackson in the 1999 playoffs did more than Kerr did in his four years as a Spur. Kerr shot 27% in the 1999 playoffs and made seven shots in the 2003 playoffs. In the regular season, he was pretty horrible save for a stretch in the 2003 season.

What Spurs Basketball were you watching?

Talk about hyperbole...Jackson had a handful of games in the '99 playoffs and that was it. Period.

For you to try to boil down Kerr's contributions to "seven shots" while inflating Jackson's 1-2 game streak makes me wonder "What Spurs Basketball were you watching?"

[Peter]

Talk about hyperbole...Jackson had a handful of games in the '99 playoffs and that was it. Period.

For you to try to boil down Kerr's contributions to "seven shots" while inflating Jackson's 1-2 game streak makes me wonder "What Spurs Basketball were you watching?"


What did Kerr bring besides some timely shooting in the WCF and Finals in '03?

This isn't a discussion about who was the most clutch Spur ever, it's about who was the best bench player ever.

[timvp]

For you to try to boil down Kerr's contributions to "seven shots"

:lol

I didn't have to boil anything down. Steve Kerr hit seven shots total in the 2003 playoffs. He played a total of 40 minutes IN THE ENTIRE PLAYOFF RUN.

Jaren Jackson played 350 minutes and had as many three-pointers made as Kerr had minutes played. You can't even compare the two. And Jackson had a lot more than "1 or 2" good games.

[Willinsa]

This thread isn't about the most clutch player it was about the best bench player ever. Outside of that one offseason Kerr amounted to very little in SA, save for an engaging personality.

Malik came up huge in the postseason several times, as pointed out above. Maybe he didn't hit a late shot but the Spurs certainly benefited from his play in opportune times in playoff series. In a number of games he provided scoring and double digit rebounding totals. He played well when called upon to start due to DRob's iffy back.

He was also a rotation mainstay as the primary bigman reserve for years, putting up numbers that the Spurs' current two top centers would be hard pressed to duplicate.

All you offer is a couple of games in one postseason in which Kerr was important as well as a flurry of insults. I guess you need the insults to make it seem as though your point is valid. Frankly it just makes those who disagree with you all the more correct.




Only in SA would Spurs fans hate those who were so valuable while propping those up who weren't major contributors.




Lets compare their career stats.

Malik 6.2 PPG 4.5 REB
Avery 8.4 PPG 5.5 Asst
Kerr 6.0 PPG

So you are telling me if we retire Malik and Avery's numbers it would be ok? Geez they did not end their career averaging double digits in points, Kerr was a good player, and would pick him over AJ and Rose in a heartbeat.

[timvp]

Kerr was a good player, and would pick him over AJ and Rose in a heartbeat.

Spurs fans amaze me.

:rollin

[Peter]

Lets compare their career stats.

Malik 6.2 PPG 4.5 REB
Avery 8.4 PPG 5.5 Asst
Kerr 6.0 PPG

So you are telling me if we retire Malik and Avery's numbers it would be ok? Geez they did not end their career averaging double digits in points, Kerr was a good player, and would pick him over AJ and Rose in a heartbeat.

When did this discussion ever become one about number retirements? It's about the best bench player ever in SA. Kerr didn't average 6.0 pts a night in SA. AJ wasn't a bench player much in SA. Rose consistently produced for the Spurs across 5 seasons as the primary bigman reserve and that included bringing it in multiple postseason series. Kerr didn't come close to having that kind of production in SA. All he had was one offseason in which he hit 7 big shots and then another offseason in which he was a non-factor. Embarrassingly so. I distinctly remember Greg Anthony leaving Kerr with the rock wide open in Game 2 of the '99 WCF.

[ShoogarBear]

It's hilarious how many people have it so in for Malik that they are willing to ignore the fact that Kerr AS A SPUR hit only 7 shots in the 2003 playoffs and still say he contributed more than Malik did LIFETIME.

What the hell, why not bring Louie Dampier into it, then?

[Peter]

Kerr's living off his stint with MJ among Spurs fans.

[CharlieMac]

Yeah, I completely forgot about Jaren Jackson. I feel kind of bad about that.

[Spurminator]

Yeah Kerr had some great moments, but it's hard to compare with Malik. Rose was an instrumental spark off the bench many Playoff series and was a key sub for Robinson (and occasional starter when the Admiral couldn't play).

For a time, he also did a pretty good job on Shaq.

[leemajors]

honestly, who gives a shit.

[Solid D]

I see some people have faint memories on Jaren Jackson's contributions in his 3 years with the Spurs. Jaren became a big three-point threat but his strength was as an on-ball defender. He was a defensive specialist with some offensive skills.

[timvp]

I see some people have faint memories on Jaren Jackson's contributions in his 3 years with the Spurs. Jaren became a big three-point threat but his strength was as an on-ball defender. He was a defensive specialist with some offensive skills.

Very true. When the Spurs signed him in the summer of 1997, he was just known as a defensive specialist. The three-point threat he became along the way was just a bonus. The combination of Jackson, Sean Elliott and Mario Elie defensively was a key to the success of the 1999 championship.

Jackson's legacy with the common Spurs fan has been ruined, but those in the know realize that the 1999 championship run wouldn't have happened without him.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Very true. When the Spurs signed him in the summer of 1997, he was just known as a defensive specialist. The three-point threat he became along the way was just a bonus. The combination of Jackson, Sean Elliott and Mario Elie defensively was a key to the success of the 1999 championship.

Jackson's legacy with the common Spurs fan has been ruined, but those in the know realize that the 1999 championship run wouldn't have happened without him.

A lot of people started paying attention to the Spurs after the '99 title run, and what they saw was a guy perceived to be cashing it in.

[whottt]

D or no D...JJ's biggest contribution to the 99 title was raining down 3's on Laker domes...JJ was the X factor in that series, and reason 1A it was a sweep(in a very tough series nontheless).

Spurs are always good on D...it's a given, the difference between our title winning teams and our failures is the ability to hit outside shots in pivotal moments...when we have that we win, and when we don't...Gotta have it, gotta have it, gotta have it. That's why none of our one game/one series/one playoff, wonders, should ever be diminished or overlooked...

[whottt]

BTW...TimVP made a pretty good list...but no way does Terry Porter deserve to be ranked in the top 10...yes I liked him, yes he's a good guy...but he's also a choking bitch that hurt this team when he was most needed. Not a top 10 guy IMO.

Doc Rivers should probably be ranked in the place of TP, for all the smart heady plays he made during his stint here.

[Peter]

Overall, Kerr was a disappointing FA acquisition who redeemed himself at the end of his (second) Spurs stint while JJ was a surprise and welcome acquisition who left in disgrace. Until late May of 2003 Kerr had contributed little in SA. To claim that he was a better bench contributor than Rose during their Spurs careers is absurd.

[ShoogarBear]

If you're going to talk about pre-Robinson, I of course agree with mentioning Mike "Sugar Bear" Gale, but you also have to include:

-Allan Briston
-Mark Olberding
-Coby Dietrick
-Mike Green

[wildbill2u]

15 Best Bench Player of the David Robinson/Tim Duncan Era
1. Malik Rose -- A vital part of two championships.
2. Robert Horry -- Historic performance in the 2005 playoffs.
3. Jaren Jackson -- Legendary 1999 playoff run.
4. Chuck Person -- Hit 457 three-pointers in his three years in San Antonio.
5. Antonio Daniels -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Routinely played well in the playoffs.
6. Will Perdue -- Provided muscle next to Tim and Dave.
7. Terry Porter -- Was a team leader for his three-year stint in San Antonio.
8. Antoine Carr -- Three seasons in San Antonio averaging just under 11 points per game.
9. Brent Barry -- Hit big shots during the 2005 playoffs.
10. Danny Ferry -- Two year stint highlighted by his playoff saving Game Two of the 2003 playoffs.
11. Steve Kerr -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Hit big shots in 2003 playoffs.
12. Jerome Kersey -- Gave the Spurs toughness for two seasons.
13. Speedy Claxton -- Injured most of his season in San Antonio but played well in 2003 playoffs.
14. Doc Rivers -- Was a good role player in his two seasons of action for the Spurs.
15. Devin Brown -- Played parts of three seasons in San Antonio. Big in 2004 playoffs.

Infuckingcredible. TIMVPS 15 names of bench players and 76 additional posts and NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON has mentioned Steve Jackson. Not even the people who've ranted about how great he was and how we absolutely had to have him back.

Either there has been a drastic reassessment in some quarters--or JAX is pretty forgettable.

[timvp]

Infuckingcredible. TIMVPS 15 names of bench players and 76 additional posts and NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON has mentioned Steve Jackson. Not even the people who've ranted about how great he was and how we absolutely had to have him back.

Either there has been a drastic reassessment in some quarters--or JAX is pretty forgettable.

He started.

[Spurminator]

Either there has been a drastic reassessment in some quarters--or JAX is pretty forgettable.

Or his only good season as a Spur was as a starter...

[timvp]

Hypothetically speaking, if Stephen Jackson was eligible for that list, I'd probably place him number two only behind Rose. Jack had a lot of huge moments in the 2003 playoffs.

[Peter]

People nut on themselves about Kerr but it was Jack who brought the Spurs back from the dead in that game with 'lik working the paint. Guess the props gotta go to the funny white guy.

[timvp]

People nut on themselves about Kerr but it was Jack who brought the Spurs back from the dead in that game with 'lik working the paint. Guess the props gotta go to the funny white guy.

Exactly.

Spurs were down by 12 in the fourth.

Manu hits a three -- down by 9
Jackson hits a three -- down by 6
Jackson hits a three -- down by 3
Kerr hits a three -- tied
Kerr hits a three -- +3
Kerr hits a three -- +6

So yeah, Kerr hit some big shots but the Spurs were already all the way back in the game. Plus there was still half the fourth quarter yet to play.

They were big shots but those two minutes of action has him up there with Gervin, Robinson and Duncan somehow.

[ShoogarBear]

Manu hits a three -- down by 9
Jackson hits a three -- down by 6
Jackson hits a three -- down by 3
Kerr hits a three -- tied
Kerr hits a three -- +3
Kerr hits a three -- +6


We briefly interrupt this debate to bring a smile to everyone's face.

Ahhhh. . . .
:fro

[Peter]

While we are stuck in a haze of bliss, recall where DRob was when the Spurs were making their run. Where could 'lik have been? Hmmm...

[timvp]

While we are stuck in a haze of bliss, recall where DRob was when the Spurs were making their run. Where could 'lik have been? Hmmm...

In that fourth quarter, Rose got seven rebounds, assisted Kerr on his second three-pointer and set a couple picks to open up the shooters.

Not bad for a scrub.

:smokin

[spurs=bling]

you have to admit this is NICE

http://www.geekimages.com/pics/20060218/1malik.bmp (http://www.geekimages.com)

[SequSpur]

Jaren Jackson anyone?

He was a starter...

not an off the bench in the dog house scrub like Rose.

[MI21]

Yeah, Kerr was huge in Game 6 against Dallas and in Game 5 against New Jersey. That's it. He hit those 3's but as stated earlier, it was Stephen Jackson who brought the Spurs back along with Malik.

Jack's 2nd triple in a row, the pull up 3 on the break with no one there to rebound remains one of my favourite Spurs shots ever. That's what I call making love to pressure :hat

[ShoogarBear]

Jack's 2nd triple in a row, the pull up 3 on the break with no one there to rebound remains one of my favourite Spurs shots ever. That's what I call making love to pressure :hat

Me, I remember Kerr's either 2nd or 3rd three. The one where "MVP-to-be" Steve Nash doubled down on Duncan, and after it was kicked back out to a wide-open Kerr, took one step toward him, then, instead of trying to close out on him, turned around IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION and RAN AWAY.

I guess he figured if he was out of frame, no one would remember.

[MI21]

:lol Nash was just terrible that quarter.

The thing I remember most about Kerr's performance isn't so much the 3's, but the defense on Finley and the dive to save that loose ball. As Larry would say, "Leadership is diving on loose balls".

Not that I don't have that quarter memorised, but I'm so watching it again when I get home.

[whottt]

The official recap of that game:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=230529006

Spurs outscore Mavs 34-9 in final quarter


· Complete Schedule: San Antonio | Dallas
DALLAS (AP) -- Steve Kerr was a forgotten man for most of the postseason.


Tim Duncan and the Spurs will be shooting for their second NBA title.

"I'm 37. I'm slow. I'm not a very good defender,'' Kerr said, explaining why San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich had kept him at the end of the bench.

Kerr went into Game 6 of the Western Conference finals having played just 13 minutes with a grand total of zero field goals.

But in the third quarter Thursday night, Popovich had nothing to lose. His team was playing poorly, his starting point guard was ill and the backup wasn't effective. So he turned to the guy with four NBA championship rings and told him to fire away.

Rekindling images of his glory days alongside Michael Jordan in Chicago, Kerr hit four 3-pointers, three during an amazing fourth-quarter rally that took the Spurs from 13 down all the way to the NBA Finals.

San Antonio beat the Dallas Mavericks 90-78 to win the series 4-2. The Spurs advanced to play the New Jersey Nets in the championship round, starting at home Wednesday night.

"I mentioned to Steve that he needed to be ready tonight, and he was real ready,'' Popovich said. "It's a fitting finish to what I thought would be the end of his career, but he told me we're going to have to think about an extension or he won't be available for the finals. And he said that with a straight face.''

Dallas led by as many as 15 and was ahead 71-58 when Nick Van Exel made a jumper with 10:53 left. Even with Dirk Nowitzki missing a third straight game because of a sprained left knee, the Mavericks appeared headed to a winner-take-all seventh game on Saturday night in San Antonio.

"I didn't think the game was over,'' Mavs guard Raja Bell said, "but you can't help thinking about Game 7.''

The Spurs came back with stingy defense and the outside shooting they lacked in previous games. Their six straight 3-pointers to open the fourth quarter were the ultimate zone-busters.

Manu Ginobili had the first, then Stephen Jackson hit two. Kerr's trio came in a span of four possessions, with the first tying it at 71 and the last making it 79-71. Ginobili added two free throws before Van Exel ended Dallas' drought with 2:51 left.

Over 8:02, the Mavericks missed seven shots and committed six turnovers. It was a stunning meltdown for a team that has thrived on making other teams melt down, such as in Game 5, when they made San Antonio blow a 19-point lead.

"We were playing so well for so long and the bottom just dropped out,'' coach Don Nelson said. "We couldn't get a shot to go in. We went cold at the wrong time.''

Nelson, only under contract as general manager next season, might've been on the sideline for the final time.

Kerr, the career leader in 3-point accuracy, took only four shots, but made them all, and all were behind the line. That made for 12 points in 13 minutes. He also had three assists and two rebounds.

"I figured just let it fly and see what happens,'' said Kerr, who won three NBA titles with Chicago and one with the Spurs in 1999. "This is one of best nights of my career, ranks right up there with anything that happened in Chicago.''

Jackson scored 24 points, making five of San Antonio's 10 3-pointers, on a night when Tim Duncan was constantly double- and triple-teamed.

Duncan had 18 points and 11 rebounds, Rose had 12 and Ginobili added 11 to help San Antonio overcome scoreless outings from two starters -- Tony Parker and Bruce Bowen.

Van Exel had 19 points to lead the Mavericks, who were without Nowitzki for the third straight game because of a knee injury that probably would've prevented him from playing in a Game 7.

Michael Finley, who had only 13 points after 31 the previous game, bit his collar as he left the court with 1:01 to play, then hugged Nelson.

When the game ended, a franchise-record crowd of 20,812 stood and applauded. Steve Nash, the last player to leave the court, slowly made a 360-degree turn while returning the applause.

"We have a lot to be proud of,'' said Nash, who had six points and 11 assists. "At the same time, we didn't reach our goal, so it hurts.''

Game notes
Finley felt he let the team down. "It was the biggest game of the year and I didn't play up to par,'' he said. "I made a plea for the crowd to make noise for 48 minutes. They held up their end of the bargain, but I didn't.'' ... That plea was played on the main scoreboard before tipoff and at the start of the second half. ... Over the middle two quarters, the Spurs had as many field goals (13) as turnovers. ... San Antonio had 17 turnovers. In the others three wins this series, the Spurs had 16, 14 and 14. They had 11 and nine in their losses.



A little bit of revisionist history going on here...I think some people need to rewatch that game because they have clearly forgotten the impact Steve Kerr made when he entered that game. And it was a must have situation.

They need to remember that the achilles heel of that team was blowing big leads and essentially choking...this with Jack and Malik and Manu getting big minutes...and it was Kerr that was the solution to the choke jobs.

This is not to diminish the game in and game out contributions of Stephen Jackson, a starter, or Malik Rose, the 6th man...only to point out that we were getting our asses kicked with both of them in the game, lost plenty of games in those playoffs with both of them getting big minutes and Kerr never getting off tyhe bench, and it was Kerr that was the momentum swing in that game. He also got a big steal too...

I remember Drob jumping off the bench...I remember Tim Duncan looking for Kerr, Kerr and more Kerr.

So while Kerr does not even really belong in the dicussion of best
Spurs bench player of all time, mainly because he had little or no role for most of his career here(not necessarily due to his own fault) and was a specialist at best, never a 6th man...

That was one of the great clutch performances in Spurs history. I don't understand the need to minimize it or trash Kerr in an attempt to build Malik Rose or Jaren Jackson up...he also was the back up PG most of that season, and he did provide an undeniable emotional momentum changing lift in that game.

Anyone that has forgotten the impact he made in the game, emotionally, and from the POV of momentum, needs to go back and rewatch...be sure to watch the reaction of the Spurs players themselves to Kerr's performance. Hell watch the Mavs.

Stop the hate...that was a great fucking performance.

[Buddy Holly]

Charles Oakley.

End of discussion.

[ShoogarBear]

A little bit of revisionist history going on here...


Yeah, but not by who you think.

According to the very story you posted, when Kerr hit his first shot, the Spurs had already closed the gap to 3.

According to some accounts here (seeming yours included), Kerr single-handedly led the Spurs back from the dead. No, what he did (to flip a metaphor) was drive the nail in the Mavs' coffin, which is somewhat different.

Kerr cemented the victory, but it was Jack, Manu, and Tim (who was still drawing the doubles) who got them back in the game.



That was one of the great clutch performances in Spurs history. I don't understand the need to minimize it or trash Kerr in an attempt to build Malik Rose or Jaren Jackson up...he also was the back up PG most of that season, and he did provide an undeniable emotional momentum changing lift in that game.


Again, he didn't provide the lift, the Spurs already had the momentum. He brought it home.

We're not arguing against the greatness of the performance. We're arguing against the need to not be happy with what it was, and to build it into something even more.

It's very likely that the Spurs would not have won without Kerr, but it's not truthful to say they wouldn't have come back without him.


Stop the hate...that was a great fucking performance.

Nobody's hating. Just providing balance.

[whottt]

Yeah, but not by who you think.

According to the very story you posted, when Kerr hit his first shot, the Spurs had already closed the gap to 3.

According to some accounts here (seeming yours included), Kerr single-handedly led the Spurs back from the dead. No, what he did (to flip a metaphor) was drive the nail in the Mavs' coffin, which is somewhat different.

Kerr cemented the victory, but it was Jack, Manu, and Tim (who was still drawing the doubles) who got them back in the game.



Again, he didn't provide the lift, the Spurs already had the momentum. He brought it home.

We're not arguing against the greatness of the performance. We're arguing against the need to not be happy with what it was, and to build it into something even more.

It's very likely that the Spurs would not have won without Kerr, but it's not truthful to say they wouldn't have come back without him.



Nobody's hating. Just providing balance.

I never said he single handedly lead us back...but he was the swing.


I think we wouldn't have won that game without Kerr's performance...we choked a lot in those playoffs, and in that series, at the FT line, from 3, and that game had that same type of oh shit feel to it.


There were very few games we were just blown out in, just about all of them were close, ...but there were plenty where we lost the deciding moment of the game.

[kskonn]

Actually he did come in and immediatelly hit a couple of open jumpers, two pointers not three. That got the mavs attentention. then If I remember correctly the first two times he got the ball on the perimeter dallas rotated hard to him which allowed him to either assist or start the ball reversal for the open threes. Once Jack hit a couple and manu hit his the mavericks stayed on their man which is when the spurs went down to Tim who just waited for the double off of Kerr---- the rest is history.

So my opinio is that he did come in and open up the floor for the rest of the team, I agree that it is not right to diminish his impact on that game to build up rose and jackson.

I still think I have been convinced that rose is the best bench player in the robinson and Duncan era, despite my dislike of him.

[polandprzem]

He was a starter...

not an off the bench in the dog house scrub like Rose.

1 month starter :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Actually he did come in and immediatelly hit a couple of open jumpers, two pointers not three. Uh, no.

Read the article quoted by whottt:


Kerr, the career leader in 3-point accuracy, took only four shots, but made them all, and all were behind the line. That made for 12 points in 13 minutes. He also had three assists and two rebounds.

[ca®lo]

steve kerr :)

[ca®lo]

Exactly.

Spurs were down by 12 in the fourth.

Manu hits a three -- down by 9
Jackson hits a three -- down by 6
Jackson hits a three -- down by 3
Kerr hits a three -- tied
Kerr hits a three -- +3
Kerr hits a three -- +6

So yeah, Kerr hit some big shots but the Spurs were already all the way back in the game. Plus there was still half the fourth quarter yet to play.

They were big shots but those two minutes of action has him up there with Gervin, Robinson and Duncan somehow.


ahh.. oh man remembering that surely felt GOOOD

[pache100]

honestly, who gives a shit.

Lots of people do. If you don't, why bother?

[T Park]

Kerr won us that game

Kerr tied the game and gave them a lead.

Stephen Jackson, Malik Rose, and Manu Ginobili got them back into it.

Go rewatch the tape hollywood.


How many games did Malik win in the Clutch?? I think it was zero

Game 2 Phoenix 03, Game 2 Dallas 03, Game 5 Vs New Jersey among others........

[leemajors]

Lots of people do. If you don't, why bother?

i just think there is better fodder for discussion than malik rose.

[polandprzem]

Okay - It's fucking over! :cuss

Malik was the best in TD's era.
So stop this useless conversation

Nobody was so productive in long time Malik was in the Silver and Black!


Second place goes to the great defender and clutch shooter who spreads the floor better then anyone while on court with Timmy.

[BigZak]

Malik, Manu (03), Horry, Kerr.

[timvp]

Manu (03)

As great of a player that Manu has become, he didn't exactly tear it up in the 2003 playoffs. He had one good series against the Lakers. Other than that, he wasn't anywhere close to the Manu of today.

vs. Suns -- 7.7 points per game on 27.7% shooting from the field
vs. Lakers -- 11.7 points per game on 51.4% shooting from the field
vs. Mavs -- 9.7 points per game on 42.3% shooting from the field
vs. Nets -- 8.7 points per game on on 35.1% shooting from the field

As odd as it seems, I'd say '99 JJ > '03 Manu

[timvp]

Bump.


After the 2007 championship, it's probably time to update the list.

Hmmmmm....

[Mister Sinister]

Bump.


After the 2007 championship, it's probably time to update the list.

Hmmmmm....
Three way tie between Beno, Scola, and James White!, I think.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

15 Best Bench Player of the David Robinson/Tim Duncan Era
1. Malik Rose -- A vital part of two championships.
2. Robert Horry -- Historic performance in the 2005 playoffs.
3. Jaren Jackson -- Legendary 1999 playoff run.
4. Chuck Person -- Hit 457 three-pointers in his three years in San Antonio.
5. Antonio Daniels -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Routinely played well in the playoffs.
6. Will Perdue -- Provided muscle next to Tim and Dave.
7. Terry Porter -- Was a team leader for his three-year stint in San Antonio.
8. Antoine Carr -- Three seasons in San Antonio averaging just under 11 points per game.
9. Brent Barry -- Hit big shots during the 2005 playoffs.
10. Danny Ferry -- Two year stint highlighted by his playoff saving Game Two of the 2003 playoffs.
11. Steve Kerr -- Four seasons in San Antonio. Hit big shots in 2003 playoffs.
12. Jerome Kersey -- Gave the Spurs toughness for two seasons.
13. Speedy Claxton -- Injured most of his season in San Antonio but played well in 2003 playoffs.
14. Doc Rivers -- Was a good role player in his two seasons of action for the Spurs.
15. Devin Brown -- Played parts of three seasons in San Antonio. Big in 2004 playoffs.

Tell me why Mario Ellie doesnt get a bit of love?

[timvp]

Tell me why Mario Ellie doesnt get a bit of love?

He started.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe Malik can add to his case once Zeke buys him out.

[MI21]

Jacque Vaughn.

On a serious note, what the fuck is with the Spurs fans love of Steve Kerr? He was important in 2 games, and those happened to be 2 very important games, but best bench player ever... I don't think so!

[timvp]

Jacque Vaughn.

On a serious note, what the fuck is with the Spurs fans love of Steve Kerr? He was important in 2 games, and those happened to be 2 very important games, but best bench player ever... I don't think so!I've given up trying to understand.

[exstatic]

He started.
PZWN3D

[picnroll]

Please tell me this isn't timvp's opening volley in a campaign to have his other love child Malik's number retired. Tell you what, let Malik and AJ do a reenactment of the lockerroom brawl and the winner's number goes to the ceiling.

[timvp]

Please tell me this isn't timvp's opening volley in a campaign to have his other love child Malik's number retired. Tell you what, let Malik and AJ do a reenactment of the lockerroom brawl and the winner's number goes to the ceiling.


http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/11/28/sp_warriorsmjm239.jpg

[picnroll]

Wouldn't it be better to have Beno being owned by someone other than Davis?

http://bp3.blogger.com/_-Oha_7alHJ8/RkVUGQUD8_I/AAAAAAAAABE/JsU9sa4Q-aw/s400/sickdunk.jpg

[MI21]

Isn't that Keith Mcleod, not Baron Davis?

[MI21]

I like this post.


Malik was the fuckin shit. He did it all for the Spurs, regular season or playoffs..

http://espn.starwave.com/media/nba/2003/0521/photo/g_rose_hi.jpg

Whether it be hustling...

http://www.origo.hu/i/0306/20030614drobinson.jpg

...or pumping his team mates up...

http://sports.espn.go.com/media/nba/2003/0611/photo/a_rose_vt.jpg

or making the big offensive play...

http://amarillo.com/images/headlines/032103/spursLR.jpg

...or defending players "out of his league"...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/specials/spurschamps/slideshows/spurslakersgame6/images/5.jpg

...to putting it all on the line against far bigger players...

Malik did everything asked of him. I would agree that in my time watching the Spurs, he has been the best bench player. Some of his performances in the 2002 and 2003 playoffs are my most memorable performances by a Spurs.

Wish you were still a Spur, 'Lik.

[Solid D]

Isn't that Keith Mcleod, not Baron Davis?Yes.

Rose is right there at the top but Robert Horry, the man who beat Malik out for minutes, now has as many championships (2) as a Spurs player.

Ginobili came off the bench enough last season to place second in the Sixth Man voting, so he should be on the list and rather high on it. John Havlicek was one of Boston's best starters AND their best bench player of all time - Manu has his similarities.

[Holt's Cat]

At least when Malik was a Spur, beating the Mavs in the postseason wasn't in doubt.

[Jimcs50]

I do not think that any bench player has ever had the numbers that Malik had in 02-03, not to mention the things that he did to help win that did not show up in the box score. So, I my answer is yes.

[Solid D]

At least when Malik was a Spur, beating the Mavs in the postseason wasn't in doubt.

:lol

I'm as big a Malik fan as Holt's Cat is, however, when Malik was a Spur...Steve Nash and Raja Bell were the Mavs backcourt, Michael Finley was the SF and Raef LaFrentz was their Center and the Spurs of today are still beating a backcourt of Steve Nash and Raja Bell without Malik.

Josh Howard!

[Holt's Cat]

Avery Johnson!

The only NBA head coaches to ever dispatch Tim Duncan in the postseason have been Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, and Avery Johnson.

[picnroll]

Isn't that Keith Mcleod, not Baron Davis?
Crap.

Well timvp still has Butler pimping hanging around his neck. And I'm rooting for a second year Elson to feed him his fill of crow.

[picnroll]

Spurs don't carry the payroll to keep a high quality 6th man around longterm. Witness Jackson, Hedo, Antonio Daniels. Long term all had the potential to be better sixth men.

[Solid D]

To your original point, Holt's Cat...I do remember fondly how the Mavs would go small and David Robinson would struggle against their small look, so Malik would come in and make all the difference in the world. Malik WAS normally awesome versus the Mavs.

Also, another point for Ginobili being high on the list...back in 2003, Ginobili came off the bench behind Jack.

[TMTTRIO]

Since Manu's probably going to continue to be a bench player (off and on), I think you have to consider him up there at the top of the list. Not only does he score and make hustle plays but he's one of our top guys to go to during "clutch" time. Before people say he doesn't qualify, he's played enough games to win the 6MOY award.

[angel_luv]

Since Manu's probably going to continue to be a bench player (off and on), I think you have to consider him up there at the top of the list. Not only does he score and make hustle plays but he's one of our top guys to go to during "clutch" time. Before people say he doesn't qualify, he's played enough games to win the 6MOY award.


Excellent take.
:)

[my2sons]

Spurs don't carry the payroll to keep a high quality 6th man around longterm. Witness Jackson, Hedo, Antonio Daniels. Long term all had the potential to be better sixth men.

JJ got his fat contract and got fat. Money wasn't the reason he left.

[picnroll]

JJ got his fat contract and got fat. Money wasn't the reason he left.
Stephen

[hater]

Manu or Horry by far

[cherylsteele]

I think it is Malik:

Here is a bit of trivia I found on Wikipedia:
Malik was the first player of an opposing team of the Boston Celtics to win the Tommy Award, which is given by Celtics broadcaster and former great Tommy Heinsohn to the player who displayed the most hustle and enthusiasm during the game.

[Hemotivo]

Scola

[2centsworth]

Speedy Claxton is probably the most overrated Spur of all time.

I'll never forget the year after the title people were raving about how he saved the Spurs over and over again throughout the season and postseason with his stellar 3 point shooting. :lol Meanwhile, he never hit a 3 in a Spurs uniform.

Speedy did a good job here (when he could stay healthy), but he's definitely overrated by a lot of Spurs fans.
he had a very nice playoff run both offensively and defensively. Also, he threatened to take Tony's job away at the beginning of the year.

He was a way above average backup.

[Referee]

Billy Paultz

[timvp]

Wouldn't it be better to have Beno being owned by someone other than Davis?

http://bp3.blogger.com/_-Oha_7alHJ8/RkVUGQUD8_I/AAAAAAAAABE/JsU9sa4Q-aw/s400/sickdunk.jpgIsn't that Keith Mcleod, not Baron Davis?:lol

Classic.

Beno's defense is so bad that he literally makes Keith McLeod look like Baron Davis.


Crap.

Well timvp still has Butler pimping hanging around his neck. And I'm rooting for a second year Elson to feed him his fill of crow.

Butler was traded before he ever got to show how good or bad he could become. Elson, by the laws of Spurs basketball, has to be better this season. But even if he played like the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain, I'd still rather be in my shoes than be on record as calling Beno the best defensive guard on the Spurs :)


Spurs don't carry the payroll to keep a high quality 6th man around longterm. Witness Jackson, Hedo, Antonio Daniels. Long term all had the potential to be better sixth men.Jackson and Hedo were both starters.


I think it is Malik:

Here is a bit of trivia I found on Wikipedia:
Malik was the first player of an opposing team of the Boston Celtics to win the Tommy Award, which is given by Celtics broadcaster and former great Tommy Heinsohn to the player who displayed the most hustle and enthusiasm during the game.Nice find :tu


speedy had a very nice playoff run both offensively and defensively.Defensively? Never heard of anyone claim Speedy played defense.


Also, he threatened to take Tony's job away at the beginning of the year. :huh

That never happened.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry, I was high on the guy too -- but Butler's performance in Vegas proved he was never going play a meaningful role on the Spurs.

[T Park]

What team did Speedy play defense against?

[picnroll]

:lol
Butler was traded before he ever got to show how good or bad he could become. Elson, by the laws of Spurs basketball, has to be better this season. But even if he played like the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain, I'd still rather be in my shoes than be on record as calling Beno the best defensive guard on the Spurs :)

Jackson and Hedo were both starters.

You were more upset about the Butler trade than the Scola trade. Let's see how that works out.

True Jackson and Hedo were starters but they would have either come off the bench or planted Manu firmly as a 6th man and ...

Manu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malik

[timvp]

You were more upset about the Butler trade than the Scola trade. Let's see how that works out.That was the same trade. And no, I wasn't more upset with Butler leaving than Scola leaving.

Didn't you like the trade?

[picnroll]

That was the same trade. And no, I wasn't more upset with Butler leaving than Scola leaving.

Didn't you like the trade?
Didn't like the Scola part. Would have been glad toget rid of Butler for the cap relief that the Spurs would use to sign someone else.

I distinctly remember you groaning far more about losing Butler particularly due to his "awesome" play in SL you were raving about which I frankly didn't think was that hot.

[timvp]

I distinctly remember you groaning far more about losing Butler particularly due to his "awesome" play in SL you were raving about which I frankly didn't think was that hot.Link?

This should be easy if you remember it so distinctly.

[ChumpDumper]

I felt ripped off by the Spurs' showcasing Butler for the Rockets to the exclusion of all the other players, but I was in Vegas so I got over it pretty quickly.

[wildbill2u]

Solid D said: Just from a sheer energy and key contributor "6th man" standpoint, I would also want to mention Mike Gale - who backed up Jimmy Silas. That guy could really play and he played defense, too. Also Coby Dietrick and Paul Griffin were major contributors off the bench for 3 or 4 years - Coby had starter's minutes some of that time."

Count me in as a fan who thinks the topic is best off the bench for a substantial Spurs career rather than a series or a few games.

Gale was a superb backup at PF. I don't remember Coby ever starting but our centers were so bad some times...But these guys were all major contributors for 5-6 years. Add in George Karl.

If we had their PPG, rebounds, defense and assists and team spirit coming off the bench today we'd be delirious. Go look up their stats.

Another thing about their career here---All but Karl chose to retire here and have made substantial contributions to the community.

[picnroll]

Link?

This should be easy if you remember it so distinctly.
Okay I stand corrected again. Reviewiing the post-trade thread you were more PO'd about Scola.

[MoSpur]

Manu gets my vote since he doesn't start for a whole season.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Robert Horry could have done more in 2006 and 2007 playoffs. If you take a certain route one could argue I'm wrong and he singlehandedly destroyed the Suns in 2007, but I still refuse to look at the situation that way, and say the Suns owned themselves.

Did we ever have a legit (official) spurstalk poll of whether the spurstalk nation believes horry hardfouled nash to elicit a response due to his off the charts BBall IQ or was it just a hard foul he committed out of frustration?
That would be an interesting result.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Antoine "Big Dog" Carr

:D

[Mister Sinister]

Robert Horry could have done more in 2006 and 2007 playoffs. If you take a certain route one could argue I'm wrong and he singlehandedly destroyed the Suns in 2007, but I still refuse to look at the situation that way, and say the Suns owned themselves.

Did we ever have a legit (official) spurstalk poll of whether the spurstalk nation believes horry hardfouled nash to elicit a response due to his off the charts BBall IQ or was it just a hard foul he committed out of frustration?
That would be an interesting result.
I'd say he did it for both reasons. He was frustrated, and his off-the-charts BBIQ channeled his frustration into hard-fouling Nash.

[JMarkJohns]

I never saw enough of him to answer this objectively, but he effin' torched the Suns. His mismatches in 2003 murdered any shot at an upset the Suns may have had.

[duncan7721]

OBI WAN GINOBILI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! period. and exclamation mark.

[Texas_Ranger]

I'd rather choose Big shot Rob.

[We born to be bad]

Ginobili and Horry.

[nfg3]

I wouldn't consider Malik for that at all. He contributed. was a good team player and had longevity but FWD made better points about Horry, Kerr and Jackson. I loved his energy off the bench, too. Butthe above three made more significant contributions to winning a title than Malik did. Just IMO.

[toosmallshoes]

I'm pretty sure the best Spurs bench player of all time is Manu Ginobili.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Malik was good.... until he decided he wanted to be a scorer

[MI21]

I wouldn't consider Malik for that at all. He contributed. was a good team player and had longevity but FWD made better points about Horry, Kerr and Jackson. I loved his energy off the bench, too. Butthe above three made more significant contributions to winning a title than Malik did. Just IMO.

I can certainly see why someone would think Horry is above Malik. Personally, I think it is either of these 2 who is the best. (If Manu returns to starter)

Jaren Jackson... hmm maybe, but he wasn't really good for a long period of time, but being such a large part of the 99 championship I can maybe just see why someone would rank him above.

But Kerr? :nope

He had 2 good games as a Spur that meant anything.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Thing about Horry is, he's soooooo freakin clutch! He was huge in 2005 - without him we probably lose game 5 and the series. I mean 17 pts in the 4th/OT, then the huge lefty dunk, then the Sheed brain explosion... and this year, when we were having real trouble against Denver, he was the one who turned the tide. Game 2, Manu playing like a dog turns the ball over and somehow Horry gets back to swat AI's shot on the break. Manu picks his head up, scores the next 8 points, and we never look back... without the Horry hustle, we might have been 0-2 v Denver!