Rivalries Not What They Once Were

[kris]

Competition among teams isn't what it used to be. Think about all the fierce rivalries of the past:

Jordan's Bulls vs. Ewing's Knicks

Malone's Jazz vs. Robinson's Spurs

Kobe and Shaq's Lakers vs. Duncan and Robinson's Spurs

Olajuwon's Rockets vs. Robinson's Spurs

Houston's Knicks vs. Mourning's Heat

Magic's Lakers vs. Bird's Celtics

Miller's Pacers vs. Ewing's Knicks

Garnett's T'Wolves vs. Duncan's Spurs (early 2000's)

Webber's Kings vs. Kobe and Shaq's Lakers

etc.


You never see the type of animosity and competitiveness these types of matchups brought anymore. The players had true dislike for each other on the court and you could sense that these types of games were more than a game, it was an all out battle.

When I watch games today, I think there is some good basketball out there, but I don't see the contempt for the other team like I did when these teams played. I miss the rivalry and I fear that for a variety of reasons - to the extent these teams had it - the rivalry is dead.

It's sad in a way because the games were so much more interesting because there was a lot more pride on the line. The games were intense to the point you could almost feel a fight about to break out.

I hope the playoffs bring a rivalry or two back.

[nkdlunch]

Spurs vs. Pistons was an awesome series last year, better than the previous 5,6,7 finals. A rematch and we'd be in the midst or a great rivalry. It doesn't matter if they hate each other or love each other as long as they play their hardest to win.

[kris]

I am reluctant to classify non-conference teams as having a rivalry, especially since I don't think the Spurs and Pistons will have that many Finals rematches. I think the Spurs and Pistons put on an awesome Finals, but I don't think they have a rivalry.

I think hate definitely makes the games better.

[Joepa]

Yeah, Irk Vs. Tim just doesn't have the same appeal at Magic vs. Bird.

[GoSpurs21]

I am reluctant to classify non-conference teams as having a rivalry, especially since I don't think the Spurs and Pistons will have that many Finals rematches. I think the Spurs and Pistons put on an awesome Finals, but I don't think they have a rivalry.

I think hate definitely makes the games better.but yet you list the magic lakers with bird celtics?

[kris]

but yet you list the magic lakers with bird celtics?

Didn't they meet in the finals several times?

[pache100]

I think the Spurs and Pistons put on an awesome Finals, but I don't think they have a rivalry.

I think hate definitely makes the games better.

I don't think the Spurs and the Pistons have a rivalry, either. I think it's more a mutual respect. Hate may make the games better (or more fun for the fans to watch, maybe), but I think you have a better chance of winning against a worthy opponent if you leave the hate off the court. Hate is a distraction and takes too much energy. I think Pop teaches against hate in any form.

[angryllama]

Why does mutual respect negate a rivalry? You're talking about the two teams that have fought for the division since Dirk and Duncan came into the league. The Mavs havent been able to knock them off, but how is that any different than Ewing vs. Jordan or Garnett vs. Duncan?

Most of those rivalries you listed are either Spurs rivalries or the national media favorties' rivalries. A rivalry between division opponents is much more fierce regardless of how professional the players are. Both Duncan and Dirk are classy guys that dont play to the media. They both show great respect for the other and their respective teams. As do each team's coach and ownership. In my opinion, I think that this makes the best rivalry because it takes the pettiness out of the game and makes it about nice guys and great basketball. That's what you get with Mavs-Spurs. Top flight ball with great guys fighting for supremacy. It's like Kansas v. Oklahoma or Duke v. Carolina in that regard. It's just that the Spurs have the best player of their generation and possibly the top PF in history (the best, IMO) and Dallas' Larry Bird is just entering his prime. This rivalry gets more interesting from here forward and already has been pretty nice to follow.

[Nikos]

Pistons vs Heat could be a nice rivalry if both teams could actually remain healthy in a playoff series (if Shaq finds his old form somewhat).

Spurs vs Suns could be a riavlry, but with Amare out....

Pistons vs Pacers could have been a nice rivalry if Jermaine wasn't injured all the time, and Ron Artest kept his head on straight.

Unfortunate injuries this season put a damper on a lot of potential great matchups in the playoffs and during the regular season. These are the times rivaries could be made, and are not simply because of injuries and teams drastically revamping their rosters every season.

[kris]

Why does mutual respect negate a rivalry? You're talking about the two teams that have fought for the division since Dirk and Duncan came into the league. The Mavs havent been able to knock them off, but how is that any different than Ewing vs. Jordan or Garnett vs. Duncan?

Most of those rivalries you listed are either Spurs rivalries or the national media favorties' rivalries. A rivalry between division opponents is much more fierce regardless of how professional the players are. Both Duncan and Dirk are classy guys that dont play to the media. They both show great respect for the other and their respective teams. As do each team's coach and ownership. In my opinion, I think that this makes the best rivalry because it takes the pettiness out of the game and makes it about nice guys and great basketball. That's what you get with Mavs-Spurs. Top flight ball with great guys fighting for supremacy. It's like Kansas v. Oklahoma or Duke v. Carolina in that regard. It's just that the Spurs have the best player of their generation and possibly the top PF in history (the best, IMO) and Dallas' Larry Bird is just entering his prime. This rivalry gets more interesting from here forward and already has been pretty nice to follow.

I think most of the rivalries I mentioned had some degree of respect for the opposition, but there was also dislike.

I grant you the current Spurs-Mavs matchup is one of the better matchups going today, but I still don't even think it is what it once was in the early 2000's.

It's true that the rivalries I mentioned are either because of the media or that I am a Spurs fan, but I think that's probably true for most fans of any one team. I don't think that's all the rivalries there are, but those were just some of the best I remembered. Maybe the Pacers and Sixers have a fueded history, but I wouldn't know because I haven't followed either team closely.

[pache100]

Why does mutual respect negate a rivalry?

It doesn't. I didn't say it did. I said I didn't think the Spurs and the Pistons have a "rivalry". And I don't. And, I explained why I don't. Not going over it again.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Why does mutual respect negate a rivalry? You're talking about the two teams that have fought for the division since Dirk and Duncan came into the league. The Mavs havent been able to knock them off, but how is that any different than Ewing vs. Jordan or Garnett vs. Duncan?

Most of those rivalries you listed are either Spurs rivalries or the national media favorties' rivalries. A rivalry between division opponents is much more fierce regardless of how professional the players are. Both Duncan and Dirk are classy guys that dont play to the media. They both show great respect for the other and their respective teams. As do each team's coach and ownership. In my opinion, I think that this makes the best rivalry because it takes the pettiness out of the game and makes it about nice guys and great basketball. That's what you get with Mavs-Spurs. Top flight ball with great guys fighting for supremacy. It's like Kansas v. Oklahoma or Duke v. Carolina in that regard. It's just that the Spurs have the best player of their generation and possibly the top PF in history (the best, IMO) and Dallas' Larry Bird is just entering his prime. This rivalry gets more interesting from here forward and already has been pretty nice to follow.



uh no offence but the lakers and spurs were rivals .. we beat eachother..we hated each other for it.. I hated Snaq and Kobe because they were smug when they eliminated us from the playoffs 2 or 3 times... We beat them.,.they beat us.. the Mvas need to beat the Spurs in the playoffs for this to be a rivalry... Now I don't think SA had beaten Houston in a playoff series so we are not their rivals..they have owned us in the playoffs..just as we have the mavs.... I just don't hate the Mavs yet........yet

[kris]

I don't think you have to beat a team in the playoffs. The Jazz owned the Spurs but it was still a rivalry. Same with Houston.

[Brutalis]

KG's Wolves vs Duncan's Spurs?

LMAO what a JOKE. Rivalry my ASS.

[angryllama]

I don't think you have to beat a team in the playoffs. The Jazz owned the Spurs but it was still a rivalry. Same with Houston.

Mavs-Rockets is the same way. Dallas has dominated the series since 2000 and Houston somehow has always thought that it was better, and thus a rivalry is born (kind of). Houston seemingly always gets punked by the modern Mavs.

[Brutalis]

I don't think you have to beat a team in the playoffs. The Jazz owned the Spurs but it was still a rivalry. Same with Houston.
Who got the last laugh? :lol

[JamStone]

Reasons:

-free agency in the salary cap era ... a lot more player movement, including key players that would keep a rivalry going (e.g. Shaq and C-Webb moved out of LA and Sacramento, Ron Artest traded from Indiana, Kenyon Martin from New Jersey and Tim Thomas from New York). Those players were key figures in the Lakers-Kings, Pacers-Pistons, New Jersey-Tim Thomas rivalries.

-high school AAU summer teams. A lot of the great NBA players now get to know each other in the high school circuits ... especially those who play in the McDonald's All America game, the Magic Roundball, Rucker Park summer tourneys, etc. The best high school players know who the other best high school players are and often times they are cool with each other, even if one lives in Texas, the other in California, and another in New York. So, by the time these young kids reach the NBA, many of them know each other and are friends. It's hard to build an animosity towards players or even a team when the players are all cool off the court.

-Expansion has dumbed down the talent in the NBA. At least that's my opinion. With that, since the 1980s, there are fewer and fewer elite teams that are consistently in the playoffs. In the 1980s, you had the Lakers, the Celtics, the Sixers, the Rockets, the Pistons, the Hawks, the Jazz, and they were all consistent playoff teams year after year. Now, with the exception of a very few teams, most NBA teams have a 2-3 year playoff run and then they drop off. Look how fast the New Jersey Nets dropped off. Just 3 or 4 years ago, Boston and Toronto were up and coming forces in the East. What happened to the Sacramento Kings? How about the Pacers since two years ago when they had the best record in the league? This also goes along with the salary cap era where teams cannot always keep a team's core because of financial constraints. But, rivalries would be stronger if teams remained better for longer periods of time. That's why if both San Antonio and Detroit can keep being title contenders for the next 4-5 years--which will be tough but possible--there could be a nice legitimate rivalry should the two meet two or three more times in the NBA finals.


Too much player movement because of free agency and salary cap restrictions. And, players are much more friendly with each other than they were in the 80s and even 90s. Teams just don't stay near the top for more than a few years.

Dallas has a good young core and could start a legit rivalry with the Spurs, if it's not already one, when Dallas can beat the Spurs in the playoffs. But, until then, there isn't much of one.

If Cleveland can improve quickly, say by next year or two, while the Pistons are still relatively young, then Cleveland-Detroit could become a decent rivalry. But, the Cavs have to get there first and have to be able to keep LeBron around. The proximity of the two cities also helps, as is the case with Dallas and San Antonio.

Other than that, it's hard to see too many other rivalries starting any time soon, not even Miami as I think they will be out of the picture as soon as next year when Shaq really starts to show the effects of his age ... not even Phoenix because I think they will start to go down hill as well because Steve Nash cannot go at this pace for much longer and Colangelo's loss will make quite the effect on that team's decision-making.


So right now ... (edit) POSSIBLE RIVALRIES IN THE MAKING:

San Antonio-Detroit
San Antonio-Dallas
Detroit-Cleveland

But, not even any of those would be very strong "rivalries" or ones to "rival" the old Lakers-Celtics, Bulls-Pistons, or even Lakers-Kings.

[Brutalis]

How is Detroit our rival? If you guys look at us like one that's fine but I know it's not mutual. Pop and the Spurs would talk about how it's a big game or whatever but never do you hear anything about a Spurs/Pistons rivalry except from a Pistons fans fingers or mouth.

It takes years of battles to make a rivalry. Not just losing the finals to us one year..

[JamStone]

With all three of those I wrote down, I was saying more or less they COULD become rivalries. I agree that they are not now. Dallas hasn't beaten the Spurs in a meaninful, and more importantly playoff, game. The current Cleveland team has not even made the playoffs yet.

If you read the post, you would understand that I was saying those three could become rivalries.

Relax, Brutalis.

[JamStone]

-Expansion has dumbed down the talent in the NBA. At least that's my opinion. With that, since the 1980s, there are fewer and fewer elite teams that are consistently in the playoffs. In the 1980s, you had the Lakers, the Celtics, the Sixers, the Rockets, the Pistons, the Hawks, the Jazz, and they were all consistent playoff teams year after year. Now, with the exception of a very few teams, most NBA teams have a 2-3 year playoff run and then they drop off. Look how fast the New Jersey Nets dropped off. Just 3 or 4 years ago, Boston and Toronto were up and coming forces in the East. What happened to the Sacramento Kings? How about the Pacers since two years ago when they had the best record in the league? This also goes along with the salary cap era where teams cannot always keep a team's core because of financial constraints. But, rivalries would be stronger if teams remained better for longer periods of time. That's why if both San Antonio and Detroit can keep being title contenders for the next 4-5 years--which will be tough but possible--there could be a nice legitimate rivalry should the two meet two or three more times in the NBA finals.


Too much player movement because of free agency and salary cap restrictions. And, players are much more friendly with each other than they were in the 80s and even 90s. Teams just don't stay near the top for more than a few years.

Dallas has a good young core and could start a legit rivalry with the Spurs, if it's not already one, when Dallas can beat the Spurs in the playoffs. But, until then, there isn't much of one.

If Cleveland can improve quickly, say by next year or two, while the Pistons are still relatively young, then Cleveland-Detroit could become a decent rivalry. But, the Cavs have to get there first and have to be able to keep LeBron around. The proximity of the two cities also helps, as is the case with Dallas and San Antonio.

Other than that, it's hard to see too many other rivalries starting any time soon, not even Miami as I think they will be out of the picture as soon as next year when Shaq really starts to show the effects of his age ... not even Phoenix because I think they will start to go down hill as well because Steve Nash cannot go at this pace for much longer and Colangelo's loss will make quite the effect on that team's decision-making.


So right now ...

San Antonio-Detroit
San Antonio-Dallas
Detroit-Cleveland

But, not even any of those are very strong "rivalries" or ones to "rival" the old Lakers-Celtics, Bulls-Pistons, or even Lakers-Kings.

[Brutalis]

I am relaxed? The fuck is wrong with you BRAH?

And Dallas hasn't beaten us period. I mean, they scrape a season win here and then but damn, that series has been one sided for years and years.

I did read the post.. but "becoming" rivals just isn't gunna happen. You don't understand Spurs basketball, in that Pop and the Spurs don't "get hyped" for certain games like the Pistons talk about. They "get hyped" for them all in the same way. They don't go into a "big game" like it is one, they just have a flow and a routine or whatever you want to call it and they go with it. Spurs basketball has to be the most unique in the NBA. It's more of a mentality anyways, not some hype. It's a mindset they go into games with. Tim Duncan a few years back talked about how practices never differ or nobody talks different just because of some game coming up. Not word for word but you get it..

Starting a rivalry with us means screwing us a few times in the playoffs, and talking shit about it like LAL did. Or, getting owned all the time by us and still have your fans and city talk shit about us, like Dallas does. You get my point.

I'd say Utah/SA is still a rivalry, regardless of recent ownage we have on them, they totally ripped our hearts out for so many years. Houston only did a couple times but we had their number most of the time, and LAL died out. If any team has room to talk about becoming a rival with us it's Memphis or Phoenix as much as it is Detroit in my opinion..

[ShoogarBear]

San Antonio-Detroit
San Antonio-Dallas
Detroit-Cleveland

I would add:

Detroit-Indiana
and possibly (depending on this year)
Detroit-Miami

I bet you the Pistons and Pacers get pumped to play each other, of course partly due to The Brawl.

Detroit and Miami have already had 1-2 good games this year, and if they meet in the ECF again, it will be on.

SA-Houston still has significant fan rivalry, if not necessarily the players.

[JamStone]

I am relaxed? The fuck is wrong with you BRAH?



That is not relaxed. But, whatever ...

Again, I didn't say Dallas-San Antonio was a rivalry. I'll go back and edit what I wrote to make it more clear. I was saying it COULD DEVELOP INTO A RIVALRY. Just like Detroit-San Antonio COULD develop into a rivalry. Just like Cleveland-Detroit COULD develop into a rivalry.

I agree it takes years and several years to really solidify a rivalry. And, I never talked about regular season games determining a rivalry. I didn't.

But, all it takes is one playoff series win for a team that gets beat by another team all the time to instigate a rivalry. Even if Dallas never beats San Antonio again after this year, but they beat San Antonio in the playoffs THIS YEAR, people will argue that it is now a rivalry. That's all it takes. You can have your own perception and definition of wha a rivalry is.

[T-Pain]

what would you say is todays biggest rivalry

[Brutalis]

Jam- I don't care what you talked about. I was making my own points. Just shaddup then. Geez.

[ShoogarBear]

what would you say is todays biggest rivalry

XBox vs. PS3?

[Brutalis]

XBox vs. PS3?
you mean 360*

but :lmao

[himat]

bottom line is that there will never be rivalries like those of the 80's again because of the stricter rules. there will be rivalries, but unlike before there won't be as much fighting etc.

the spurs and pistons is hard to call a rivalry because they only play each other twice a season. the only way this will be a rivalry is if the pistons beat the spurs for the trophy this year.

[DDS4]

San Antonio - Lakers is the most recent one that comes to my mind.

1999 SA sweeps LA 4-0
2001 LA sweeps SA 4-0
2002 LA beats SA 4-1
2003 SA beats LA 4-2
2004 LA beats SA 4-2

That is a rivalry.

[Brutalis]

2004 should have the asterisk.

* = denotes a shot attempt on slow motion timed delay replay that was counted

:(

[JamStone]

Jam- I don't care what you talked about. I was making my own points. Just shaddup then. Geez.


Why the hell did you respond to it in the first place then?

You're a jackass foreal.

[ShoogarBear]

you mean 360*

but :lmao

Are you kidding? It took total exhaustion of my understanding of current pop culture to manage to come up with what I did.

Otherwise, I would have had to say something like Kool Moe Dee vs. Big Daddy Kane.

[Brutalis]

okay im kidding then

:lmao

[angryllama]

Modern rivalries:
1) Spurs/Mavs - simply the two most consistently competitive teams of the 2000's and are constantly fighting for division supremacy.

2) Pistons/Pacers - a rivalry compounded by the Detroit brawl and constant dirty play on both teams

3) Suns/Mavs - Nash v. Dirk, the old run-and-gunners v. the new shoot well-or-die team, MVP Nash v. Cuban and his unwillingness to pay him a max deal, the best up-and-coming coaches in the league, Dirk vs. Marion, west coast team vs. the hated Mavs...the plotlines are thick here.

4) Spurs/Pistons - This one doesnt have the shine that the above stories do, but both teams are great defensively and have been successful in their conferences recently. All we need is for Rasheed Wallace to drop an elbow on Timmy like he did big Z to add some spice. Maybe Bowen would elbow Wallace in the jock or something.

5) Lakers/anyone - who doesnt hate the Lakers beside the glamour crowd?

[Spurminator]

Don't forget ABC/ESPN's favorite rivalry, Kobe vs. Shaq...