Bowen (Please don't post pics of crying babies it's old)

[DMFFL341]

I just want to have a decent conversation about Bowen. I want someone in here to seriously tell me that Bowen doesn't foul a lot and isn't a benefit of the Spurs reputation with the league and the refs. If you think Bowen plays good defense tell why.

[Dre_7]

BOWEN OWNS DIRK!!

That is all.

[spurs=bling]

BOWEN OWNS DIRK!!

That is all.


WORD

[ChumpDumper]

I want someone in here to seriously tell me that Bowen doesn't foul a lot and isn't a benefit of the Spurs reputation with the league and the refs.Okay, Bowen doesn't foul a lot and isn't a benefit of the Spurs reputation with the league and the refs.

Seriously.

That was easy.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Because he shuts down scorers?

Shaq travels and pushes off, Manu flops, Chauncey carries the ball, Bowens grabs and holds, Big Ben flops, Dirk can't post up a guy 7 inches shorter, etc.

You could go on forever...

[mouse]

I just want to have a decent conversation about Bowen. I want someone in here .

with the average age of most Spur fans at 16 ? and the the mental age of the 25-40 year olds at 15? good luck brah :lmao

[Pinto Bean]

Bowen gets away with things some people cant. Its part of his game, anybody in the NBA wishes they could foul like Bruce

[SA210]

Bowen IS

The DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR!!

[ZStomp]

I just want to have a decent conversation about Bowen. I want someone in here to seriously tell me that Bowen doesn't foul a lot and isn't a benefit of the Spurs reputation with the league and the refs. If you think Bowen plays good defense tell why.

Whatever the case may be....beat him at it. Be smarter, etc.

[hussker]

Did all of our SIGS drop or what?

[GoSpurs21]

I just want to have a decent conversation about Bowen. I want someone in here to seriously tell me that Bowen doesn't foul a lot and isn't a benefit of the Spurs reputation with the league and the refs. If you think Bowen plays good defense tell why.let the crying begin...you just wish you had a defense player to help you...by the way the german sure does get alot of calls

[ShoogarBear]

with the average age of most Spur fans at 16 ? and the the mental age of the 25-40 year olds at 15? good luck brah :lmaoDo those averages include your aliases that list the Spurs as their favorite team?

[samikeyp]

I think Bowen plays good NBA defense, which means he is chippy, not dirty. Most NBA players are. They stretch the rules as far as they can until they get busted. We can take any NBA game and break it down play by play and probably find some sort of violation on almost every play. This is not exclusively a Bowen thing. He understands the system and works within it.

[spurfan 21]

just like hitler usa ownes the germans :smokin

[adrienne]

Bowen does foul a lot. But he's also an excellent defender. Ron Artest fouls a lot. He's also an excellent defender. It's just how it goes. It's not a conspiracy, it's not a plot by David Stern, it's the way it is. In some weird way they've earned the right to have questionable contact overlooked once in a while.

[jcrod]

Because he shuts down scorers?

Shaq travels and pushes off, Manu flops, Chauncey carries the ball, Bowens grabs and holds, Big Ben flops, Dirk can't post up a guy 7 inches shorter, etc.

You could go on forever...


You forgot Rip pushes off. :spin

[spurs=bling]

Did all of our SIGS drop or what?

Kori turns them off during a game

[samikeyp]

You forgot Rip pushes off

so does Dirk. :p

[GoSpurs21]

with the average age of most Spur fans at 16 ? and the the mental age of the 25-40 year olds at 15? good luck brah :lmaomouse didnt even get into high school...your mental age is about 11 mouse

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You forgot Rip pushes off. :spin


I'd go with travels a lot before pushing off...

[Josh810]

with the average age of most Spur fans at 16 ? and the the mental age of the 25-40 year olds at 15? good luck brah :lmao
Get it all out, you've only got 5 more minutes!

[spurs=bling]

Get it all out, you've only got 5 more minutes!
:lol

[hussker]

with the average age of most Spur fans at 16 ? and the the mental age of the 25-40 year olds at 15? good luck brah :lmao


GHEEZ Mouse, I had you pictured as a "relatively intelligent walking around guy", not a "Steven Hawking blowing in your computer microphone on your wheelchair guy"...

But, quantum physics does rock!

[PASPURSFAN]

Let's have a serious conversation on how Bruce Bowen owned Dirk.

[GoSpurs21]

I just want to have a decent conversation about Bowen. I want someone in here to seriously tell me that Bowen doesn't foul a lot and isn't a benefit of the Spurs reputation with the league and the refs. If you think Bowen plays good defense tell why.take a look at stackhouse throwing his elbow into Horrys face before you comment on fouls jackass

typical mavs fan and owner...take the loss like a man like Nash and Fin jackass

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Let's have a serious conversation on how Bruce Bowen owned Dirk.

I'll play Mavs fan:

He cheated...

[Kip Fanatic]

I can't stand when opposing teams fans make excuses and look for comfort.

[hussker]

I'll play Mavs fan:

He cheated...


I'll play Spurs fan...

YOU SUCK

[spurs=bling]

I'll play Spurs fan...

YOU SUCK

i'll join you Hussker

[Solid D]

mouse didnt even get into high school...your mental age is about 11 mouse

I know you are talkin' smack but mouse is smart and has as quick a wit as there is in this Forum. On this one, I've got mouse's back.

[LilMissSPURfect]

Bowend!

[JHoLove]

Bowend!


ha thats clever....

[Pandaemonaeon]

I think it's a little bit of both. Bowen's a very smart, crafty defender but he's also dirty. He'll bump you a lot and get a lot of contact that normally refs would call on anyone but not him. Thanks to Pat Riley's endorsement, I guess. That said, he's the type you'd want on your team but if he's not, you'll be spending the entire time crying (sorry about violating the thread rule) about him.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The reason Bowen looks so good against Dirk is because so much of Dirk's game is about getting defenders off their feet on pump fakes.

Bowen doesn't jump at jump shots. It fucks Dirk up. There's nothing dirty about it, other than the fact that Air Deutsch Pussy looks like a scrub against Bruce.

[samikeyp]

He'll bump you a lot and get a lot of contact that normally refs would call on anyone but not him.

You actually think the refs purposely look the other way on Bowen.

No other NBA player pushes, pulls or makes contact which is "tecnically" illegal, right?

[ShoogarBear]

mouse is smart and has as quick a wit as there is in this Forum. With this faint praise I damn thee.

[CubanMustGo]

When Kobe Bryant says nobody in the L can guard him like Bruce, that's all I need to know.

PS - "crying babies" gets old? So does people whining about Bruce's play.

[hussker]

I think it's a little bit of both. Bowen's a very smart, crafty defender but he's also dirty. He'll bump you a lot and get a lot of contact that normally refs would call on anyone but not him. Thanks to Pat Riley's endorsement, I guess. That said, he's the type you'd want on your team but if he's not, you'll be spending the entire time crying (sorry about violating the thread rule) about him.


All I have to say for you, is get your vaginal exam...looks like your pussy hurts....

:depressed

[leemajors]

i admire mouse's ability to seamlessly shift through so many names and not lose a beat.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

e'll bump you a lot and get a lot of contact that normally refs would call on anyone but not him.


So, you think it's a conspiracy in a league predicated on hype and scoring that the refs just look the other way when he's clowning TMac and Kobe with a 2x4? :lmao

[Josh810]

All I have to say for you, is get your vaginal exam...looks like your pussy hurts....

:depressed
Eh, not cool...Panda's pretty much the only respectable Mavs fan that posts here.

[Sec24Row7]

Dirk doesnt like it when someone is 2 inches away from him every moment on the court.

Bowen is The Rash.

[ShoogarBear]

I don't necessarily have any problem with the use of the word dirty, because it's hard to name any great All-Time perimeter shutdown defender who wasn't accused of being dirty.

-Jerry Sloan
-Norm Van Lier
-John Stockton
-Ron Artest
-Michael Cooper
-Michael Jordan

[samikeyp]

oh shit AHF...they are figuring out the Spurs strategy. Its not strong defense, its the deal the Spurs made with the NBA! :lol

[hussker]

Eh, not cool...Panda's pretty much the only respectable Mavs fan that posts here.


Ok...then I apololgize...
















Looks like your VAGINA hurts...there , is that better?

[hussker]

i admire mouse's ability to seamlessly shift through so many names and not lose a beat.


There you go agian mouse....

[Solid D]

Bowen just gets in players' space and keeps moving his feet and hands perpetually. His style is different from someone like Chauncey Billups or Earl Watson who are strong on the ball, pushing and muscling-up on guys. He's more irritating than anything and he doesn't allow any comfort whatsoever.

[adrienne]

Eh, not cool...Panda's pretty much the only respectable Mavs fan that posts here.

I am THIS---><---CLOSE to becoming a troll, just to piss you people off. :lol

[Solid D]

Dirk doesnt like it when someone is 2 inches away from him every moment on the court.

Bowen is The Rash.

You said it best.

[hussker]

Bowen is aggressive and knows how to play D. Jerk made Manu look foolish a few times tonight. HUGE difference!

[leemajors]

panda has an even keel. i like his avatar too.

[hussker]

I am THIS---><---CLOSE to becoming a troll, just to piss you people off. :lol


MADAM ADRIENNE....

I DUB THEE TROLL ADRIENNE

[samikeyp]

adrienne...you are too cool to be a troll. :)

[adrienne]

I could do it. All I have to do is forget how to spell, type in all caps, and throw all NBA knowledge and reason to the wind.

[Solid D]

I know you are talkin' smack but mouse is smart and has as quick a wit as there is in this Forum. On this one, I've got mouse's back.


With this faint praise I damn thee.

Well, you have a quick wit too but you are sane. :lol

[samikeyp]

I know you could do it...but you're still too cool to go through with it. :)

[spurs=bling]

MADAM ADRIENNE....

I DUB THEE TROLL ADRIENNE
:lol

good god hussker......

[Josh810]

I could do it. All I have to do is forget how to spell, type in all caps, and throw all NBA knowledge and reason to the wind.
lol ok well you're cool too...

[hussker]

:lol

good god hussker......


Hey, I like DUBBING...

I could DUB YA...Get it? Dubya? hahaha!

[Josh810]

Hey, I like DUBBING...

I could DUB YA...Get it? Dubya? hahaha!
Man, just how drunk are you?
:lol

[slayermin]

Instead of crying about being BOWeND, you should be pissed that Dirk didn't work on his post up game last summer. He said that it was one area he was going to focus on after they lost to the Suns.

Obviously, he didn't.

[adrienne]

Make you sick, make you ill,
makes you cheat, slipping change from the till.
Had it up to the gills,
makes you cry while the milk still spills.
Ain't it just a bitch? What a pain, well it's all a crying shame.
What left to do but complain?
Better find someone to blame.

Hey! Get, get, get, get, get over it!
Hey! Get, get, get, get, get over it!
Hey! Get, get, get, get, get over it!
Get over it, get over it!

[hussker]

Instead of crying about being BOWeND, you should be pissed that Dirk didn't work on his post up game last summer. He said that it was one area he was going to focus on after they lost to the Suns.

Obviously, he didn't.


UHHH..he could not get down there and seemed reluctant to try

[Pandaemonaeon]

You actually think the refs purposely look the other way on Bowen.

I don't know, but that's how it looks like. Big Ben and Sheed clobbers Duncan downlow - no call. Fortson does the same thing, and he fouls out. Don't get me wrong: Bowen, Sheed, Ben, et. al. are outstanding defenders but you have to admit - their reputation as defensive stalwarts help them get away with stuff other people don't. It's the superstar calls on the other end, so to speak. There's nothing bad with it per se, but I guess I just love to rant :lol


The reason Bowen looks so good against Dirk is because so much of Dirk's game is about getting defenders off their feet on pump fakes.

Houston showed us that when you take away Dirk's perimeter game, he turns into a pussy. This year, he made up for it by developing some semblance of a post-up game that was a problem for most defenders at first but in this game, Pop neutralized it by sending an early double which turns Dirk into a super pussy because his mediocre passing skills are now exposed and he's screwed. It doesn't help that he has 0% killer instinct which makes it harder to impose his will on the face of insurmountable odds unlike Kobe (probably Pierce as well but I haven't seen him much against a terrific defender) who manages to put up 35 with Bowen draped all over him.

[slayermin]

UHHH..he could not get down there and seemed reluctant to try

Like Barkley said, Nowitzki should have punished Bruce down low. Unless the Spurs switched or double teamed, he just needs to get set on the block and call for the ball.

[ChumpDumper]

Houston showed us that when you take away Dirk's perimeter game, he turns into a pussy."Turns into"?

[SPARKY]

If the Spurs had Eric Williams they'd have won by 20.

[GoSpurs21]

I know you are talkin' smack but mouse is smart and has as quick a wit as there is in this Forum. On this one, I've got mouse's back.then I guess you are in the same class as mouse...get back to me when you graduate jr high

[DMFFL341]

take a look at stackhouse throwing his elbow into Horrys face before you comment on fouls jackass

typical mavs fan and owner...take the loss like a man like Nash and Fin jackass

Hey jackass, that was one play. Bowen can't get through a game without getting away with about 25 calls per game. Stack isn't known as anything but a tough player and you don't fuck with him. If everyone here is going to call Dirk a pussy for shooting I guess the same can be said for Horry not to mention he backs down with shit. Stack would've kicked his ass.

[DieMrBond]

then I guess you are in the same class as mouse...get back to me when you graduate jr high

Don't tell me you just talked smack about Solid D, one of the classiest and SMARTEST posters on the board?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

with the average age of most Spur fans at 16 ? and the the mental age of the 25-40 year olds at 15? good luck brah :lmao
wait a sec? mouse...? talking smack again? so soon? let me remind you of something little man


Spurs have scoreboard ! and that is the bottom-line this time around.
see you next game.
congrats!
eat it a weep troll http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[Pandaemonaeon]

you should be pissed that Dirk didn't work on his post up game last summer. He said that it was one area he was going to focus on after they lost to the Suns.

His coach went to prison and by the time he was released, the European Championships were just a couple of weeks away.

[yourtehclay]

^^^
im offended, don't be surprised if you have a nasty rash tommorrow

Let the curse of bowen be on thee!!!!

[SouthernFried]

Playing physical is NOT playing dirty or fouling. Bowen plays tight defense. Tight defense is NOT dirty or fouling.

Fouling is when you get whistled because you...uh, fouled.

Basketball is a contact sport. People do touch each other. So, "seriously," learn a little about the game before you post silly stuff like this.

[samikeyp]

If everyone here is going to call Dirk a pussy for shooting I guess the same can be said for Horry not to mention he backs down with shit. Stack would've kicked his ass.

Show me where I called Dirk a pussy.

[pache100]

Stack would've kicked his ass.

http://i2.tinypic.com/qnmyiq.gif

Jerry Stackhouse is a thug; he's a simmering pot (maybe he should play for the Pacers) about to boil over and someone needs to put a lid on him. Oh, that's right...he almost got a lid put on him last night.

http://i2.tinypic.com/qnmyrq.gif


oh shit AHF...they are figuring out the Spurs strategy. Its not strong defense, its the deal the Spurs made with the NBA! :lol

Ha ha. Good one!

(Hint to the whiners: The NBA won't even take the Spurs' phone calls)

[DMFFL341]

Playing physical is NOT playing dirty or fouling. Bowen plays tight defense. Tight defense is NOT dirty or fouling.

Fouling is when you get whistled because you...uh, fouled.

Basketball is a contact sport. People do touch each other. So, "seriously," learn a little about the game before you post silly stuff like this.

Learn a little about the game? Ha! Bowen is a dirty piece of in my book. For his whole career he's tryed to injure players when they shoot. When the players jump to shoot, he puts his feet under the player so when they come down they sprain their ankle. I remember last year Vince Carter nearly sprained his ankle and then he went after Bowen and of course Bowen was being a . He would've gotten killed had no one held Vince back. Not only does he do that. He fouls a lot more than any other NBA player and when he does get called for fouls, he looks at the ref in disbelief and whines everytime. Bowen.

[pache100]

Ha! Bowen is a dirty piece of in my book.

That is your opinion.


For his whole career he's tryed to injure players when they shoot.

But that is a lie.

[spurster]

Bowen plays defense without giving up any space. When that happens, you get a little pushing match to get position and space. If two players are both jostling each other, guess what? The refs don't call it because they are both doing it.

Usually, that sort of thing only happens on the low block, but Bruce makes it happen on the perimeter.

[DMFFL341]

But that is a lie.

No, it isn't. I have seen him attempt to do it to many people in his career and I think it's a dirty move because it's barely noticeable. I've even seen him injure a few players with that move before.

[Useruser666]

No, it isn't. I have seen him attempt to do it to many people in his career and I think it's a dirty move because it's barely noticeable. I've even seen him injure a few players with that move before.

Name them?

[DMFFL341]

Name them?

I don't remember their names but I have it seen it done before. I'll try and look it later when I have time.

[pache100]

Name them?


Yes, name them.



I don't remember their names but I have it seen it done before. I'll try and look it later when I have time.
:lol

Typical.

[spur219]

This is the fact.

Fans of opposing teams hate Bruce because of his defense that he plays and how he frustrates the opposing teams best player. But I can almost bet anything Dallas fans would love to have him on their team.

Don't say it isn't true.

[spur219]

Besides don't blame it on Bowen that Dirk is way too soft. If Dirk was smart he would develop a decent post game and use that against Bowen. If Dirk would develop that their is no way Bowen can guard him because Bowen is not a great post defender. But I guess a 7 footer like Dirk can't develop a decent post game.

[carina_gino20]

it actually took me awhile to appreciate Bruce's D. But when I did, I realized that he, just like Duncan, holds this D together. What makes him great is that he does it night in, night out. He knows how to play within the rules and if some complain about "no-calls", it happens all the time. To have the responsibility of locking down or limiting the opponent's top player almost every game is a very daunting task but Bruce takes up the challenge and does more than is expected.

he mentioned it in the Finals that it's about paying attention to the little details everyone else may overlook and he's done a pretty good job on that.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I am THIS---><---CLOSE to becoming a troll, just to piss you people off. :lol

ADRIENNE IS THE MOST RESPECTABLE, MOST BEAUTIFULL, MOST LOVEABLE MAVS FAN OF ALLLLL TIME!!!

[samikeyp]

True.

[1Parker1]

The fact that Bruce Bowen has so many of the top players in the league whining about his defense on them speaks great volumes. He may not block shots like Ben Wallace, he may not beat up fans like Artest, but what he does on defense is amazing to watch. His footwork is so quick and his hands are all over the place, he gets as close to the players as possible, without actually touching them and invades their space. He gets into their heads.

If Bruce doesn't get DPOY, I think Spurstalk members should seriously consider a petition of some sort and send it to the commish :)

[FromWayDowntown]

Why is it that we can't have a Spurs win over Dallas without hearing all of this whining about Bruce Bowen? Just once, I'd like to have that experience.

Of course, some of these Mavs posters are coming from the crypts that are Mavs forums, where posters spend their entire online existence complaining about Bruce Bowen and fabricating these "He tries to injure people and I know I've seen it but I can't tell you exactly who those players were" arguments. Basically, they have concluded that Ray Allen and Vince Carter are the most credible players in the NBA; they contend that every great scorer complains about Bowen (without mentioning Kobe's raves for Bowen's D, or the fact that guys like McGrady and Wade and Anthony and Lebron just take the challenge and use Bruce's defensive prowess as a challenge).

Fueled by myopia.

[pache100]

Why is it that we can't have a Spurs win over Dallas without hearing all of this whining about Bruce Bowen? Just once, I'd like to have that experience.

Of course, some of these Mavs posters are coming from the crypts that are Mavs forums, where posters spend their entire online existence complaining about Bruce Bowen and fabricating these "He tries to injure people and I know I've seen it but I can't tell you exactly who those players were" arguments. Basically, they have concluded that Ray Allen and Vince Carter are the most credible players in the NBA; they contend that every great scorer complains about Bowen (without mentioning Kobe's raves for Bowen's D, or the fact that guys like McGrady and Wade and Anthony and Lebron just take the challenge and use Bruce's defensive prowess as a challenge).

Fueled by myopia.

:tu

[SAGambler]

bowen is a bad mofo. dude has no game so he takes his anger out on the defensive end about it.

Not only is Bowen a "bad mofo" on defense, he continues to improve on offense. Not only is he a constant threat from 3 pt land, he had developed an in-between shot. But what I am most impressed with is his improvement at the free throw line. You want see any hack-a-Bowen moves ever again.

[50 cent]

Just ask Kobe Bryant:

"Bowen is the best defender in the league. It's not even close."

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Of course, some of these Mavs posters are coming from the crypts that are Mavs forums, where posters spend their entire online existence complaining about Bruce Bowen and fabricating these "He tries to injure people and I know I've seen it but I can't tell you exactly who those players were" arguments. Basically, they have concluded that Ray Allen and Vince Carter are the most credible players in the NBA; they contend that every great scorer complains about Bowen (without mentioning Kobe's raves for Bowen's D, or the fact that guys like McGrady and Wade and Anthony and Lebron just take the challenge and use Bruce's defensive prowess as a challenge).

Damn straight. Ray Allen whined in the playoffs that Bruce hurt him even though the only thing the replays showed was Bruce doing his best to get out of the way and Ray hurting his ankle all by himself. And as for Vince Carter, given that he probably hurt himself putting his groceries away I'd take any talk of someone trying to hurt him with a grain of salt. Think about it this way whiners, your hatred of Bruce gives you something in common with two of the best scorers in the league!

[adrienne]

ADRIENNE IS THE MOST RESPECTABLE, MOST BEAUTIFULL, MOST LOVEABLE MAVS FAN OF ALLLLL TIME!!!

:elephant :elephant :elephant

Why thank you, sweetie. :lol

[Solid D]

I know you are talkin' smack but mouse is smart and has as quick a wit as there is in this Forum. On this one, I've got mouse's back.


then I guess you are in the same class as mouse...get back to me when you graduate jr high

:lol It's good to be young again! That made my day.

[SenorSpur]

BOWEN OWNS DIRK!!

That is all.


......and Shawn Marion, and Carmelo Anthony, and Ray Allen, and Vince Carter...you get the point.

[DDS4]

Honestly, I wouldn't like Bruce too much if he was an opposing player. But you would absolutely love him if he was a Mav.

It's like an older kid picking on his little brother. He's going to poke, push, pull, etc. and every now and then he'll hit him hard and make him cry. Refs see Bruce hand check, poke, and get his nose into things. But of course, they aren't going to call every single thing.

That said, Bruce has unbelievable quickness with his feet. You almost never see him get beat one-on-one situations without a pick set. Most of Bruce's work happens before the opposing player even gets the ball.

It's crazy that he's 35 with no signs of slowing down.

[IceColdBrewski]

http://www.exit50.com/images/April2005/cuban_all.jpg
How about a pic of a crying adult. Is that off limits?

The only thing that has gotten older than "pics of crying babies", are posts from whiners like you who complain about Bruce Bowen being "dirty." So if you're sick of the baby pics, maybe you should stop coming in here acting like one.

[bdubya]

http://www.exit50.com/images/April2005/cuban_all.jpg
How about a pic of a crying adult. Is that off limits?

Moot point; that's not an adult.

[kskonn]

You know what the best part about all of the Hate for Bowen is?

it has been going on for years and nothing has changed, the refs still do not think he is dirty and still give him the benefit of the calls. I swear that some players are going to go their whole career and never win a ring, and when they get old they will sit at home and plan on ways to get Revenge on Bruce Bowen for single handedly keeping them from winning the championship.

I can't wait to see if him on the US team.

[newbiefan]

excuse me... regarding "For his whole career he's tryed to injure players when they shoot"". seems to me there are several players from other teams who have gotten hurt by landingn on someone else's foot/ankle.... does this mean those players were doing it on purpose too>??

[tekdragon]

Apparantly Bruce owns several fans, as well as several of the best scorers in the league.

Cut the Mavs fans some slack, though. They didn't even know what defense was until this year, so it's going to take them some time to recognize when it's done right.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ha! Bowen is a dirty piece of in my book.

That's what you get for dropping your coloring book in the mud.

[SpursWoman]

Moot point; that's not an adult.


:lol

[Winnipeg_Spur]

I'm still eagerly anticipating the blog post from Cuban...

[DannyT]

Do those averages include your aliases that list the Spurs as their favorite team?
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUM.....

[DannyT]

http://www.exit50.com/images/April2005/cuban_all.jpg
How about a pic of a crying adult. Is that off limits?

The only thing that has gotten older than "pics of crying babies", are posts from whiners like you who complain about Bruce Bowen being "dirty." So if you're sick of the baby pics, maybe you should stop coming in here acting like one.




shall i say instant classic

[samikeyp]

He fouls a lot more than any other NBA player
proof, please.


and when he does get called for fouls, he looks at the ref in disbelief and whines everytime

What NBA player doesn't? :lol

[DannyT]

I don't remember their names but I have it seen it done before. I'll try and look it later when I have time.



hater in da house....and then he cant even prove his point


stuart scott would be highly disappointed

[Angry Midget]

take a look at stackhouse throwing his elbow into Horrys face before you comment on fouls jackass

typical mavs fan and owner...take the loss like a man like Nash and Fin jackass


hey Asshat! nice going proving mouse's point!

[infinite styles]

I've seen this a lot lately on the boards and was just wondering WTF is an "asshat" exactly? Seems like every month theres a new word floating around with ass in it.

[Useruser666]

Bruce Bowen commits 2.40 fpg (fouls per game) this season. Last season he committed 2.10 fpg.

Vince Carter commits 3.10 fpg this season and committed 3.20 fpg last season.

Clearly Vince Carter commits more fouls per game than Bruce Bowen and therefore is the dirtier player of the two.

Not only that, but Vince Carter fouls more per minute(fpm) of play than Bruce Bowen.

Vince Carter
.084 fpm 04-05
.087 fpm 05-06

Bruce Bowen
.066 fpm 04-05
.070 fpm 05-06

Now most people know the type of of opponents that Bowen guards night in and night out. Funny how he can do that and yet still seem to be less foul prone than Vince Carter.

[Angry Midget]

I've seen this a lot lately on the boards and was just wondering WTF is an "asshat" exactly? Seems like every month theres a new word floating around with ass in it.


uncork your head from your ass and I might tell you!

[DMFFL341]

Bruce Bowen commits 2.40 fpg (fouls per game) this season. Last season he committed 2.10 fpg.

Vince Carter commits 3.10 fpg this season and committed 3.20 fpg last season.

Clearly Vince Carter commits more fouls per game than Bruce Bowen and therefore is the dirtier player of the two.

Not only that, but Vince Carter fouls more per minute(fpm) of play than Bruce Bowen.

Vince Carter
.084 fpm 04-05
.087 fpm 05-06

Bruce Bowen
.066 fpm 04-05
.070 fpm 05-06

Now most people know the type of of opponents that Bowen guards night in and night out. Funny how he can do that and yet still seem to be less foul prone than Vince Carter.

Nice try on proving it with stats but I don't think you are taking into account fouls vs. fouls that are not called per game as well. Then the stats would be about Carter 5 pg, Bowen 20 pg.

[Kori Ellis]

So why do they let Bowen get away with 20 fouls per game? Does he have the superstar status of MJ and we just don't know it?

[DMFFL341]

So why do they let Bowen get away with 20 fouls per game? Does he have the superstar status of MJ and we just don't know it?

He's always gotten away with it, who knows why? I think he benefits from the Spurs reputation that he can get away with a few and that he's been a hustle player his whole career as well and he knows that and uses it to his advantadge.

[DMFFL341]

Also for the people who say he's playing good defense and not fouling, then why does everyone else get called for fouls if they're not really fouls.

[kskonn]

maybe because they are not as good of a defender as Bruce Bowen? just a thought? There is only a minor difference between a reach in and a good play....

But if he really does get away with 20 fouls a game here my reasoning why:

the refs get so sick of hearing spoiled millionares complain about a guy who makes their job harder and have decided to let Bruce have a little slack since he is a hard nosed show up and do his job kind of guy.

[kskonn]

for example when Ginobli cam in and guarded Dirk for two posessions Dirk had his way with him and he got two fouls called in his favor. When Bowen came back in he played dirk much differently than Manu and Dirk went back to making poor decisions.

[DMFFL341]

maybe because they are not as good of a defender as Bruce Bowen? just a thought?


What does that have to do with anything? I have seen countless times where Bruce gets away with a defensive play that any other player in the NBA gets called for a foul on on the EXACT same play. Either there are phantom calls on everybody except Bowen or Bowen gets away with a bunch of fouls.

[DMFFL341]

for example when Ginobli cam in and guarded Dirk for two posessions Dirk had his way with him and he got two fouls called in his favor. When Bowen came back in he played dirk much differently than Manu and Dirk went back to making poor decisions.

I certainly thought on those calls Ginobli made just as much contact as Bowen.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, the great "Stern like to see his offensive stars get shut down" conspiracy.

I rarely say Kobe is classier than anyone, but he's got it all over Mavfans.

[kskonn]

I certainly thought on those calls Ginobli made just as much contact as Bowen.


are you fucking kidding me??? Ginobli fell for a pump fake and landed on dirk, I never saw Bowen do the same thing and not get called.

[DMFFL341]

are you fucking kidding me??? Ginobli fell for a pump fake and landed on dirk, I never saw Bowen do the same thing and not get called.

He may have fell for the pump fake but on replays he made little/no contact with Dirk on the way down not to mention Bowen was all over the place on defense giving Dirk elbows, knees, hips, hands, arms, legs, and whatever else you can think of that can create contact.

[FromWayDowntown]

What does that have to do with anything? I have seen countless times where Bruce gets away with a defensive play that any other player in the NBA gets called for a foul on on the EXACT same play. Either there are phantom calls on everybody except Bowen or Bowen gets away with a bunch of fouls.

What a load of garbage. If you watch Bruce Bowen, he's exceptionally fast with his feet, which allows him to gain and maintain superior position on the guys he defends. Many guys appear to play the same way, but they don't actually gain the position that Bowen does, so they're called for blocks when an opponent cannot drive. With Bowen, opponents cannot drive because he stays in front of them and rarely is beaten to the spot.

He's active with his hands, but not in a way that infringes on a player's shot or dribble. He doesn't impede the progress of a ballhandler by reaching or anything like that. Again, it's a part of his great positional defense. It's what makes him a great defender.

Bowen is physical off the ball, but many players are physical off the ball and don't get called for that stuff. For crissakes, as an offensive player, Dirk Nowitzki is constantly throwing his arms out into defenders in an effort to clear space for himself -- if you're going to complain about Bowen, you have to at least acknowledge that, too.

Ultimately, it's good to see that Bruce Bowen is totally inside the heads of Mavericks fans. A playoff series is going to be fun, just to hear the whining and gnashing of teeth about Bruce Bowen.

[DMFFL341]

Yes, the great "Stern like to see his offensive stars get shut down" conspiracy.

One I never said that and two Stern doesn't ref the games. So shut the fuck up right now before you embarass yourself again. Lol at Kobe classier than Mavs fans.

[adrienne]

Again...as I said earlier in this thread...


Bowen does foul a lot. But he's also an excellent defender. Ron Artest fouls a lot. He's also an excellent defender. It's just how it goes. It's not a conspiracy, it's not a plot by David Stern, it's the way it is. In some weird way they've earned the right to have questionable contact overlooked once in a while.

[kskonn]

What does that have to do with anything? I have seen countless times where Bruce gets away with a defensive play that any other player in the NBA gets called for a foul on on the EXACT same play. Either there are phantom calls on everybody except Bowen or Bowen gets away with a bunch of fouls.

I have seen a lot of plays where players aren't moving their feet and are not in good enough position and get called for something that looked a lot like something Bowen has done without getting whistled.

But make no mistake I think that he gets away with some calls because he has a rep for being in good position, moving his feet and having quick hands.

When a non "defensive" player makes a play that could go either way it will normally go to the offense. When Bowen makes a play and it could go either way it often goes to Bowen because he has made great defensive plays a thousand times.

[ChumpDumper]

Congratulations, you have achieved pussy alert level "Vince Carter."

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Most of the contact Mavs fans are complaining about came before Dirk got the ball, and it's simply because they don't call a lot of off the ball fouls in the NBA. Scrubs like Diop and the 73 Million Dollar Man were getting away with the same kind of grabbing and holding on Duncan when he didn't have the ball, but that's just normal post play. Bowen just brings that kind of intensity further out on the floor. Nothing illegal about that.

[DMFFL341]

Congratulations, you have achieved pussy alert level "Vince Carter."

Pussy alert level "Vince Carter"? If I remember correctly, Bowen was the one who backed down on Vince Carter when Carter was ready to fight it out. I take no offense in being as much of a pussy as Vince Carter.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Nice try on proving it with stats but I don't think you are taking into account fouls vs. fouls that are not called per game as well. Then the stats would be about Carter 5 pg, Bowen 20 pg.

this is clearly the most ridicules, whiny, cry-baby, sore loser statement of all time.
Surely you say it in jest. Do you honestly believe that Bowen is getting away with 15-20 fouls night in and night out? For years?
What kinda crack are you smoking ?

Do you tell yourself this just so it can be "ok" for your teamed to get owned?
Thats like saying your glad Jessica Alba doesn't give you a ring 'casue your too good for her anyway.

[ChumpDumper]

If I remember correctlyYou don't.
I take no offense in being as much of a pussy as Vince Carter.That's the most sense you have made in 105 posts.

[kskonn]

Pussy alert level "Vince Carter"? If I remember correctly, Bowen was the one who backed down on Vince Carter when Carter was ready to fight it out. I take no offense in being as much of a pussy as Vince Carter.


But that is the point no spur is ever going to "throw down" with someone at a game. It is all part of the game and they are no stupid enough to jeopardize their career by getting into a meaningless fight.

Hell him not fighting carter was probably what pushed vince over the edge in the first place...

When someone is beating you in something else like Bowen did to carter the human instinct is to be defensive... Just a sign that Bowen owns vince.

[Hook Dem]

Congratulations, you have achieved pussy alert level "Vince Carter."
OWNED !!!! :lol :lol :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

But that is the point no spur is ever going to "throw down" with someone at a game. It is all part of the game and they are no stupid enough to jeopardize their career by getting into a meaningless fight.

Hell him not fighting carter was probably what pushed vince over the edge in the first place...

Exactly. This thread is like trying to talk sense to a 15-year-old.

[kskonn]

Exactly. This thread is like trying to talk sense to a 15-year-old.


for all we know that might be exactly what it is..

[DMFFL341]

You don't.That's the most sense you have made in 105 posts.

Actually I do, Bowen stuck his feet under him when he shot it and Carter got mad and went after him and of course there is Bowen sticking his hands up in innocence.

[FromWayDowntown]

for all we know that might be exactly what it is..

That made me curious . . . .


Birthday:
May 26, 1991

Biography:
Mavs own

Location:
Dallas, TX

Interests:
Basketball

Occupation:
Student

Position:
Rugged Forward

Favorite Team:
Dallas Mavericks

[DMFFL341]

this is clearly the most ridicules, whiny, cry-baby, sore loser statement of all time.
Surely you say it in jest. Do you honestly believe that Bowen is getting away with 15-20 fouls night in and night out? For years?
What kinda crack are you smoking ?

Do you tell yourself this just so it can be "ok" for your teamed to get owned?
Thats like saying your glad Jessica Alba doesn't give you a ring 'casue your too good for her anyway.

Sore loser? I would have told you that before the game, and before the season, and the first time I saw him play.

[ChumpDumper]

So Bowen is supposed to punch him after that?

If it's VC, there's nothing to back down from.

[kskonn]

^^^^^^ wow to the bio.

[Hook Dem]

That made me curious . . . .
YUP !! Thought so!

[DMFFL341]

That made me curious . . . .

Ok I'm 14 I guess that means you are just jealous you couldn't talk as much basketball as well as I can when you were my age.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually I stopped that kind of whining when I was four, so if anyone should be jealous....

[FromWayDowntown]

Ok I'm 14 I guess that means you are just jealous you couldn't talk as much basketball as well as I can when you were my age.

Actually, I understood concepts like defensive positioning and not making excuses for my team when I was your age. Hence, I would have never tried to advance the ridiculous sorts of arguments that you are trying to advance here. But that's just me.

[DMFFL341]

Actually, I understood concepts like defensive positioning and not making excuses for my team when I was your age. Hence, I would have never tried to advance the ridiculous sorts of arguments that you are trying to advance here. But that's just me.

Ridiculous sorts of arguments? Half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans would agree with me.

[kskonn]

Ok I'm 14 I guess that means you are just jealous you couldn't talk as much basketball as well as I can when you were my age.

I know a lot of people that could talk basketball better than you that are 14... anyone can accuse a player of being dirty and trying to injure people. I was saying that about malone when I was 12...

But props to getting in their and fighting it out at 14, it is good to speak your mind.

[leemajors]

when i was 14 i was playing more basketball than i was watching, and at 6pm on a friday i was either playing golf or basketball - i damn sure wasn't posting on a forum because the idea of even dial-up connections hadn't reached my hometown.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Birthday:
May 26, 1991

Biography:
Mavs own

Location:
Dallas, TX

Interests:
Basketball

Occupation:
Student

Position:
Rugged Forward

Favorite Team:
Dallas Mavericks

holy crap :wow
:lmao :lmao

I'm out off this thread. But before I go i will leave one last present for a Mavs fan named DMFFL who is so kind as to join us here:
http://volantminiatureshop.com/images/in_home_1/nursery/baby_bottle.gif

[DMFFL341]

I don't think you guys get it. I'm not ripping Bowen. In fact I admire his defense and I wish I could do it that well especially getting away with it. It's more of why does he get away with it? I play basketball just as much as I watch and I play some pretty good defense as well and I probably even play like him on defense because I do force a lot of contact but can you really blame me for wondering why he gets away with it?

[kskonn]

Ridiculous sorts of arguments? Half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans would agree with me.

and the other half probably wouldn't agree with you. People like once 17 year old pro Kobe Bryant.

what is your point?

That is why we have forums to discuss this stuff, but you can't expect to come on to a spurs board with some pretty educated fans and talk trash about Bruce without getting some heat back at you.

[valluco]

Ok I'm 14 I guess that means you are just jealous you couldn't talk as much basketball as well as I can when you were my age.That explains it. :baby

[FromWayDowntown]

Ridiculous sorts of arguments? Half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans would agree with me.

They are ridiculous. At some point, is it within your capacity to admit that the San Antonio Spurs might actually be a better basketball team than the Dallas Mavericks right now? That the reason the Spurs beat the Mavericks has nothing to do with biased officiating and everything to do with the fact that they are the superior team in the here and now? I doubt that. I seriously doubt that.

Your argument is ridiculous because it wholly ignores the countless variables that decide games and relies on excuse-making instead.

Half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans would agree with me that the Spurs beat the Mavericks because, at the moment, the Spurs are the better basketball team.

[DMFFL341]

holy crap :wow
:lmao :lmao

I'm out off this thread. But before I go i will leave one last present for a Mavs fan named DMFFL who is so kind as to join us here:
http://volantminiatureshop.com/images/in_home_1/nursery/baby_bottle.gif

Guess the big words of our posts are forcing you out of here. This post shows your immaturity.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Ridiculous sorts of arguments? Half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans would agree with me.

yes. coincidently the one's whose teams and fav. players reguarly get owned by Bruce Bowen.

[kskonn]

I don't think you guys get it. I'm not ripping Bowen. In fact I admire his defense and I wish I could do it that well especially getting away with it. It's more of why does he get away with it? I play basketball just as much as I watch and I play some pretty good defense as well and I probably even play like him on defense because I do force a lot of contact but can you really blame me for wondering why he gets away with it?
well keep doing it and overtime you will have a rep for playing solid aggressive D and you will get the calls, I guarantee it.

Hell who knows maybe some day we will be saying damn that DMFFL guy is a dirty player who gets away with a lot of fouls.

[DMFFL341]

They are ridiculous. At some point, is it within your capacity to admit that the San Antonio Spurs might actually be a better basketball team than the Dallas Mavericks right now? That the reason the Spurs beat the Mavericks has nothing to do with biased officiating and everything to do with the fact that they are the superior team in the here and now? I doubt that. I seriously doubt that.

Your argument is ridiculous because it wholly ignores the countless variables that decide games and relies on excuse-making instead.

Half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans would agree with me that the Spurs beat the Mavericks because, at the moment, the Spurs are the better basketball team.

The Spurs are a better team than the Mavs, the play better defense, and they beat them down last night. But it still does not take away from what Bowen does on a night in and night out basis. Part of the reason we lost was biased officiating and the majority is that ya'll kicked our ass. But seriously I'd rather you kick our ass and there be no biased opinions on the refs part.

[DMFFL341]

yes. coincidently the one's whose teams and fav. players reguarly get owned by Bruce Bowen.

You're off this thread remember?

[ChumpDumper]

The "keep NBA scores in the 70s" conspiracy!

[DMFFL341]

well keep doing it and overtime you will have a rep for playing solid aggressive D and you will get the calls, I guarantee it.

Hell who knows maybe some day we will be saying damn that DMFFL guy is a dirty player who gets away with a lot of fouls.

Maybe you will, see I have no problem with that as I have no problem with Bowen's style of defense. (Except the injury stuff he pulls by sticking his feet under guys)

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe you will, see I have no problem with that as I have no problem with Bowen's style of defense. (Except the injury stuff he pulls by sticking his feet under guys)Then stop whining about it.

[kskonn]

well I am off to dinner.... enjoy the rest of the conversing.

[valluco]

Quit complaining, and go away until your huevos drop.

[DMFFL341]

Then stop whining about it.

See you don't get it. It's the refs not Bowen. He's just doing what he does on a daily basis and I admire that because he does it well. The refs are at fault for not keeping it under control sometimes.

[DMFFL341]

Quit complaining, and go away until your huevos drop.

Just because you think guys balls don't drop by the time they're 12 (through your personal experience) doesn't mean that's the case for everybody.

[Obstructed_View]

See you don't get it. It's the refs not Bowen. He's just doing what he does on a daily basis and I admire that because he does it well. The refs are at fault for not keeping it under control sometimes.
Actually you don't get it. It's you not Bowen. He's just doing what he does and you think that the rules should be changed to benefit your team because they don't have the testacles to win on the court, and they don't have the class to admit that Bowen shut down "big game" Dirk.

[valluco]

no, i think that about you because of the constant complaining and whining from ya man. grow up kid or go away.

[ChumpDumper]

They don't call travelling or clearouts either. Bitch about that.

Or better yet, follow Kobe's example -- shut up and dish out as much as you take. There is a ridiculous amount of contact between the two that is never called. And it makes for epic basketball.

Whining does not.

[spurs=bling]

This is what Bruce has to say when people complain about him.............................................







http://www.geekimages.com/pics/20060218/20050621WP_spurs_4503.jpg (http://www.geekimages.com)

[hussker]

HE's YOUR H-E-B Buddy!

[DMFFL341]

Actually you don't get it. It's you not Bowen. He's just doing what he does and you think that the rules should be changed to benefit your team because they don't have the testacles to win on the court, and they don't have the class to admit that Bowen shut down "big game" Dirk.

WOW! I even said it's not Bowen and you still see in your own little mind that I said it's Bowen. I have said it a million times already. Bowen is a damn good defensive player but he does create a lot of contact that the refs should call. Bowen did a hell of a job on Dirk, the best that he could do, but I think he got away with a lot of very physical contact with Dirk.

[E20]

with the average age of most Spur fans at 16 ? and the the mental age of the 25-40 year olds at 15? good luck brah :lmao
I thought you weren't gonna post for 1 day? :rolleyes

[carina_gino20]

This is what Bruce has to say when people complain about him.............................................







http://www.geekimages.com/pics/20060218/20050621WP_spurs_4503.jpg (http://www.geekimages.com)

:lmao so true...

[Obstructed_View]

WOW! I even said it's not Bowen and you still see in your own little mind that I said it's Bowen. I have said it a million times already. Bowen is a damn good defensive player but he does create a lot of contact that the refs should call. Bowen did a hell of a job on Dirk, the best that he could do, but I think he got away with a lot of very physical contact with Dirk.
You just did it again. You started off saying it's not Bowen and then went on to say how Bowen gets away with a lot of shit, which means you actually think it and you actually said it after you said it wasn't it. You can't have it both ways. You can get angry all you want, but I'm just calling it what it is.

The bottom line is that you seem to think that the most complained about defender in the league, by far in recent memory, is somehow getting by with something against your superstar. Superstars complain about him all the time yet he is rarely in foul trouble. The league hasn't done anything to him and very little video evidence exists of him getting away with anything.

Besides, dude, your fucking superstar is SEVEN FUCKING FEET TALL. Why on God's green earth would someone be complaining about the physical defense of a guy who gives up that much size? Your team has bigger problems if you are crying about a guy that much smaller pushing your best player around.

Put fucking Josh Howard on Duncan the next time the teams play. Please.

[tw05baller]

all i can say is dirk was using his arm so blatently last night i couldnt belief it didnt get called

[spurs=bling]

:lmao so true...

WORD

[DMFFL341]

You just did it again. You started off saying it's not Bowen and then went on to say how Bowen gets away with a lot of shit, which means you actually think it and you actually said it after you said it wasn't it. You can't have it both ways. You can get angry all you want, but I'm just calling it what it is.

The bottom line is that you seem to think that the most complained about defender in the league, by far in recent memory, is somehow getting by with something against your superstar. Superstars complain about him all the time yet he is rarely in foul trouble. The league hasn't done anything to him and very little video evidence exists of him getting away with anything.

Besides, dude, your fucking superstar is SEVEN FUCKING FEET TALL. Why on God's green earth would someone be complaining about the physical defense of a guy who gives up that much size? Your team has bigger problems if you are crying about a guy that much smaller pushing your best player around.

Put fucking Josh Howard on Duncan the next time the teams play. Please.

Ok Dirk fucking stunk it up. I understand that. It's not Bowen, he does what he does best and that is play tough defense that involves a lot of physical play and if the refs call it like they call it for every other player then there would be no problems.

[Sec24Row7]

http://www.lasraicesranch.com/images/basketball/dirkdayoff.jpg

[FromWayDowntown]

Ok Dirk fucking stunk it up. I understand that. It's not Bowen, he does what he does best and that is play tough defense that involves a lot of physical play and if the refs call it like they call it for every other player then there would be no problems.

If the refs called all of Dirk's push-offs and clear outs, he'd be spending a whole lot more time next to AJ. Are you willing to discuss that inconsistency as well?

[samikeyp]

Ok Dirk fucking stunk it up. I understand that. It's not Bowen, he does what he does best and that is play tough defense that involves a lot of physical play and if the refs call it like they call it for every other player then there would be no problems.

So you are saying that Bruce Bowen is the only player who gets away with over-physical play.


You ever watch a guy named Shaquille O'Neal?

[Obstructed_View]

Ok Dirk fucking stunk it up. I understand that. It's not Bowen, he does what he does best and that is play tough defense that involves a lot of physical play and if the refs call it like they call it for every other player then there would be no problems.
You just did it again. You are right about one thing: The officials don't call Bowen like they call for every other player. But that's because Bruce Bowen is far and away the most scrutinized defender in the league!!!!!! Bowen does not get away with more than other defenders, he gets away with less. Yet he still shuts down great players. You cannot seriously try to convince me that Bowen is getting the nod from the refs over marquee player after marquee player in this league. At some point you have to just accept that he plays defense with his feet against Dirk, who plays offense with his forearms.

Someone on Mavs talk tonight said that if Bowen played Kobe the same way he played Dirk that Kobe would go to the line 30 times. They then looked up the last game against the Lakers and Kobe went 9-33 with 8 free throw attempts.

Oops.

Bowen does this to better players than Dirk and doesn't commit fouls. If you want to change the rules that's fine, but don't act like it's the officials' fault that your seven foot jump shooter gets pushed out of position by a smaller guy. I'd say he needs to add a dimension or two to his game. If you are going to insist that Dirk is getting less respect than Bruce Bowen by the refs then you are going to be hard pressed to find anyone to take you seriously.

[Useruser666]

Nice try on proving it with stats but I don't think you are taking into account fouls vs. fouls that are not called per game as well. Then the stats would be about Carter 5 pg, Bowen 20 pg.

Nice try? All I did was show the facts. Your whole view is based off of opinion.

[pache100]

Ok I'm 14 I guess that means you are just jealous you couldn't talk as much basketball as well as I can when you were my age.

:lmao


I know a lot of people that could talk basketball better than you that are 14...

My sister would have OWNED him when she was 7!!!! (hint: that's the year the team moved here from Dallas and became the Spurs)


Ridiculous sorts of arguments? Half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans would agree with me.

:lol You have talked to "half the people that follow basketball that aren't Spurs fans". Quite an accomplishment for someone of your tender age. It's statements like that (well, and a host of others) that make people not pay any attention to what you say. :blah