Bexar steps up to plate with stadium plan [Archive]

Buddy Holly

03-03-2006, 01:36 AM

Bexar steps up to plate with stadium plan

Web Posted: 03/03/2006 12:00 AM CST

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

County Judge Nelson Wolff said Thursday he will present a stadium financing plan next week to the Florida Marlins, a step that may lead to more intense relocation negotiations between the county and the Major League Baseball franchise.

"We look forward to discussing this plan with Judge Wolff," Marlins president David Samson said. "It's the first step of a long, interesting process to see if there is a match."

Wolff said his proposal mirrors the plan the county used to build the AT&T Center for the Spurs, using public and private funding to raise the $300 million he estimates it would take to build a stadium.

The Marlins would choose the site, Wolff said.

"The general thinking is the I-35 corridor (Selma area) would work, but the Marlins may have other ideas," Wolff said.

The AT&T Center opened in 2002 at a cost of $189 million. Voters in 1999 approved increases in the hotel-occupancy and car-rental taxes to finance the county's $146.5 million share.

The Spurs provided the rest of the funding, including $41 million from the arena's naming rights.

"That's our template," Wolff said. "Although construction of a baseball stadium is more expensive, we are looking at doing something similar percentage-wise."

Wolff said voter approval would be needed to refinance the bonds, pay off the AT&T Center debt early and use new bonds to pay for a stadium.

"We would not be encumbering it with a sales or property tax," Wolff said. "We would use the same financing mechanism we have in place now."

If negotiations heat up with the Marlins, Wolff said he would attempt to put the proposal on the November ballot.

Wolff said the target date for the proposed stadium's opening would be 2010.

The Marlins want a new home because they've been unable to get public financing for a new ballpark near Miami. The team has said it is prepared to help pay to build any new stadium.

Last month, Bexar County commissioners told their budget officer to find underwriters who could help the county determine, at no cost, options for financing a large sports facility.

Budget Officer David Smith chose UBS Financial Services and JP Morgan Chase, and he said he has met with them.

San Antonio was the first city the Marlins toured after receiving permission from Major League Baseball to explore relocation. Marlins officials, who say the team prefers to remain in South Florida, also have visited Portland, Ore., and talked with officials from Norfolk, Va.

Samson, the Marlins' lead negotiator for relocation talks, said South Texas is under serious consideration. Meanwhile, stadium talks in South Florida remain stalled.

"It's definitely serious when you are presented a financing plan and when you talk as much as we are," Samson said.

In addition to talking several times a week with Wolff, Samson also has had conversations with Mayor Phil Hardberger, the most recent coming last week when he was in Miami.

"We told (Wolff) we wouldn't waste his time," said Samson, who visited San Antonio in December. "We have too much respect for the county judge and the mayor. This has never been about leverage in South Florida. This is about finding a home for the Marlins."

Hardberger conceded that his plans to bring the NFL to San Antonio could be put on hold if the Marlins land in South Texas. Still, he said he thinks the city someday would be able to support three big-league franchises.

"If I had the choice of a professional football team or a professional baseball team, I would take football," Hardberger said. "Most people would, with the exception of Judge Wolff, who loves baseball. But I don't see it as an either-or situation.

"Our doormat has been out for a year or so now, and we are going to welcome the first ones through the door, and it could be the Marlins."

Asked if he had concerns about San Antonio's ability to support two major league teams, Samson said: "After peeling away one layer, the answer is no. But there are many more layers to go before we are sure our initial hunch is correct."

Hardberger said he has discussed with Wolff the possibility of the city building roads to the proposed stadium.

"But he has assured me — and I am probably going to hold him to it — that he will not ask the city for any direct money," Hardberger said.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA030306.01A.San_Antonio_Marlins.1d1b9942.html

Old School Chic

03-03-2006, 01:40 AM

Buddy,

Are you sure you don't work for the city :lol

SA210

03-03-2006, 01:45 AM

cool

KEDA

03-03-2006, 01:47 AM

that would kick ass if the Marlins, or any other MLB team would locate here!!

Buddy Holly

03-03-2006, 01:52 AM

This is a article from yesterday from the Miami Herald:

---------------------------------------------------------------

San Antonio under `serious consideration'

BY BARRY JACKSON
[email protected]

San Antonio has become the focus of Marlins' relocation discussions, Major League Baseball president Bob DuPuy said Wednesday.

Asked if San Antonio has emerged as the front-runner, DuPuy said, ``I would not go that far. All I would say is that right now, that seems to be the temporal focus. I think it's too early to have a front-runner.''

The Marlins have spoken with officials with San Antonio, Portland and Norfolk, Va., but the talks with San Antonio have progressed further than the others.

Marlins president David Samson said the team and San Antonio officials are speaking three or four times a week.

However, San Antonio hasn't presented a stadium financing plan to the Marlins.

Mayor Phil Hardberger did not respond to a request for comment.

''Talks are serious, but until financial plans are discussed, it's preliminary,'' said Samson, who toured San Antonio on Dec. 6.

Samson said the Marlins are ''very encouraged'' about how aggressively San Antonio is pursuing the Marlins and that the city is ''under very serious consideration.'' Samson always has said the Marlins prefer to remain in South Florida, but stadium talks remain stalled.

San Antonio was the first city the Marlins visited after receiving permission to explore relocation.

''I imagine there will be another visit there,'' Samson said.

The Marlins have not received permission to visit Las Vegas, because MLB is believed to have concerns about relocating to the gambling mecca. Asked if the Marlins would be given permission to visit Las Vegas, DuPuy told The Las Vegas Review Journal for today's editions, ``I have no information. Focus seems to be on San Antonio at this point.''

The Marlins' discussions about building a stadium in Hialeah have not progressed, Samson said.

Even with a contribution by the team and Miami-Dade County, the Marlins need free land and an additional $100 million or so toward construction costs.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/13995528.htm

Old School Chic

03-03-2006, 01:56 AM

Baseball in SA would be awesome... It does get a little boring during the Spurs offseason

Buddy Holly

03-03-2006, 01:58 AM

Baseball in SA would be awesome... It does get a little boring during the Spurs offseason

And both sports do not overlap each other by very much.

You'd have the NBA season ending and still have the MLB going to about when the NBA season restarts.

:smokin

j-6

03-03-2006, 02:33 AM

ChumpDumper

03-03-2006, 03:35 AM

I have my doubts on the viability of an 81 game summer home schedule in San Antonio, of course.That thing would have to have a retractable roof -- or else prepare for the usual Ranger August swoon.

MannyIsGod

03-03-2006, 05:22 AM

Well, baseball games are cheap. Thats one thing that they have going for them.

timvp

03-03-2006, 05:50 AM

No way this happens. San Antonio is being used, again.

scott

03-03-2006, 08:47 AM

j-6

03-03-2006, 09:21 AM

I don't think its all that far fetched (not as far fetched as getting an NFL team) - but its just a dumb idea since MLB blows, especially if you don't have one of the 5 teams who can afford to buy their way into the playoffs year after year.

We probably COULD support an NFL team - we just are down on the list of desired locations for the league to put a team (better options exist). No city outside of NY, Boston, and Chicago can support a modern MLB team.

Sort of off subject, but not really. If the NFL goes with an uncapped season in '07, football could quite possibly blow up into baseball economically. Why would the union accept a deal for a cap after guys like Dan Snyder are going to be perfectly willing to pay $5M a year for backup defensive ends for a one-season spending orgy to get a title?

No matter how much the town has grown, it's still a small-to-middle size market in professional sports terms, and Jeff "I sold the Expos" Luria isn't going to spend a ton of money to be competitive.

Frankly, San Antonio has a much better chance of filling a 65-70K stadium eight times a year for the NF'ingL than it does averaging 20-30K for baseball on eighty-something home dates in the South Texas heat. And they better win, 'cause SA doesn't have a very good track record for supporting shitty teams.

pache100

03-03-2006, 09:59 AM

I still can't believe that the good people of Dade County, with the support they've given to the U's football team over the years, won't open their checkbooks for their only championship pro team of recent vintage. But they can't even find a sponsor for that dump Joe Robbie when Tampa's freaking newspaper stepped up and bought the name for the dome there.

I have my doubts on the viability of an 81 game summer home schedule in San Antonio, of course. But if Miami won't pay when the Marlins are actually offering to spend their own money, and Bexar County's going to build a brand new facility at no cost for the team, why the fuck not?

Not only will they not "open their checkbooks", they won't even support the team by attending games. Have you ever taken a look at the stands when the Marlins are playing at home? Tons of empty seats. Florida is notorious for not supporting their sports teams by attending games; odd, too, considering the amount of money down there.

No way this happens. San Antonio is being used, again.

That's what I think, too. As much as I'd love to take off work an afternoon or two a week to attend a professional baseball game...it ain't gonna happen.

Peter

03-03-2006, 10:22 AM

It's good to see that the public leadership is being proactive on this but MLB in SA? I think the NFL has a far better chance. That's only about 10 home games (incl preseason) a year that you have to get 50K or so people per game to show up to. Far easier than getting 20K on average to go to 81 home games. The Spurs manage to do it with 41 or so home games, but they're a team that's just won 3 titles in the last 7 seasons. Football is also king in South Texas.

TheTruth

03-03-2006, 11:17 AM

As an avid Baseball fan, I sure hope this happens.

ObiwanGinobili

03-03-2006, 11:27 AM

I sure do love me some baseball!

for sure I would be going for 20 or 30 home gaems... maybe buy a 1/2 season pass.

And you don;t need "great" seats to enjoy a baseball game...the $8 - $15 ones will do just fine in a jiffy.

ObiwanGinobili

03-03-2006, 11:27 AM

BTW - any ideas what thier name could be IF we get them??

They can't be the San Antonio Marlins.. .that just makes no sense.

MoSpur

03-03-2006, 11:34 AM

I loves this idea. I don't know what the chances are of landing the Marlins, but I would be down for it. Its too much to go to Houston and Arlington to watch baseball. I have to dish out money to get there, stay there, tickets, and food. This would be great. It has to have the sunroof though. Its too hot here in SA for it to be an opened stadium.

Ed Helicopter Jones

03-03-2006, 12:38 PM

Note to self: Look for land deals around Selma.

FRITO BANDITO

03-03-2006, 01:12 PM

Holy CHit Mans..i am tired of the pinche Local Federales Pimping our City for No reason....Those putos are only using the good peoples of this town to get somethin better else wheres......PINCHE CABRONS!!!

If we DO get a Team we chould name it LOS BANDITOS after me......that is all...

Samr

03-03-2006, 06:43 PM

BTW - any ideas what thier name could be IF we get them??

They can't be the San Antonio Marlins.. .that just makes no sense.

San Antonio Shamus.

tlongII

03-03-2006, 06:52 PM

Screw you guys! We want the Marlins here!

AlamoSpursFan

03-03-2006, 07:15 PM

They can't be the San Antonio Marlins.. .that just makes no sense.

Yeah, what she said.

Sincerely,
The Los Angeles Lakers and the Utah Jazz

:lol

Buddy Holly

03-03-2006, 09:36 PM

No way this happens. San Antonio is being used, again.

Yeah, so much so that the MLB president says the Marlins are very serious about SA and the main focus right now. :lol :lol :rolleyes

CharlieMac

03-03-2006, 09:48 PM

I don't like baseball. At all. But I admit, I'd probably catch a few games in July or August since there is nothing better to do here.

TOP-CHERRY

03-03-2006, 09:50 PM

Same here. I wouldn't mind going to the baseball games.

hussker

03-03-2006, 09:55 PM

That would be awesome if the SA leadership could pull it off. I would spend WAY more time in SA, and look forward to long Homestands.

Buddy Holly

03-03-2006, 10:05 PM

San Antonio Will Offer Marlins Stadium Deal

MIAMI -- Major League Baseball chief operating officer Bob DuPuy said the Florida Marlins appear to be leaning toward San Antonio as their new home.

Team president David Samson said that officials likely will visit San Antonio again and that "talks are serious."

So serious, in fact, that the county in Texas where San Antonio is located will present a stadium-financing plan to the team, according to the San Antonio Express-News.

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff said the plan involves using public and private funding to raise the estimated $300 million it would take to build an MLB stadium.

"We look forward to discussing this plan with Judge Wolff," Samson said. "It's the first step of a long, interesting process to see if there is a match."

Already in weekly communication with the Marlins, Wolff said he would attempt to put the proposal on the November ballot if negotiations with the team pick up speed.

Wolff's proposal follows the same plan used to build the AT&T Center for the San Antonio Spurs, which opened in 2002 at a cost of $189 million.

Voters in 1999 approved increases in the hotel-occupancy and car-rental taxes to finance the county's $146.5 million share. The Spurs provided the rest of the funding, including $41 million from the arena's naming rights.

Wolff said voter approval would be needed to refinance the bonds, pay off the AT&T Center debt early and use new bonds to pay for a baseball stadium. The plan would not incorporate sales or property tax, he said.

The Marlins would choose the site for a stadium.

In January, the Marlins met with Hialeah city officials to discuss the chances of a new ballpark being built for the team there.

The city is the state's fifth most-populous one and is located just a few miles northwest of downtown Miami.

Marlins officials also have visited Portland, Ore., Las Vegas and Norfolk, Va.

Las Vegas had been considered a front-runner, but it is thought that MLB officials would not want to relocate a team to the gambling capital of the U.S.

In November, Samson announced that MLB Commissioner Bud Selig had given the team permission to consider offers from other cities.

The announcement came after years of negotiations between the team, the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County to finance a new stadium. The Marlins requested a retractable-roof stadium at the site of the Orange Bowl, but could not come to an agreement on the funding.

There were also reports that Miami Dolphins owner Wayne Huizenga, who originally owned the Marlins before selling the team in 1997, had offered land and money to the financially strapped team to build a new ballpark on the property next to Dolphins Stadium, but that offer no longer appears to be on the table.

Samson has said he hopes the team can remain in South Florida.

Marlins officials have been eager to get a stadium of their own. The team has shared a stadium with the Dolphins since the franchise began play in 1993.

The Marlins won the World Series in 1997 and 2003.

http://www.local10.com/sports/7646812/detail.html

Aggie Hoopsfan

03-03-2006, 10:17 PM

Don't get your hopes up, you're getting played.

Buddy Holly

03-03-2006, 10:21 PM

Don't get your hopes up, you're getting played.

:lol

There's no rational reason for that to even be the case.

:lol

atlfan25

03-04-2006, 12:46 AM

That's what I think, too. As much as I'd love to take off work an afternoon or two a week to attend a professional baseball game...it ain't gonna happen.
I'm sure they wouldn't schedule day games during the week, they only do that for the cubs.

xrayzebra

03-04-2006, 09:55 AM

Well, baseball games are cheap. Thats one thing that they have going for them.

Depends, been to one lately. It can run pretty high by the time you
pay for parking, tickets and couple of cool ones. You more than likely
wont get out without paying less than $75.00 a person.

Added: Course you will have to pay to drive there on the toll roads
the Judge wants to build in SA. :lol

ObiwanGinobili

03-04-2006, 10:02 AM

Wolff said voter approval would be needed to refinance the bonds, pay off the AT&T Center debt early and use new bonds to pay for a baseball stadium. The plan would not incorporate sales or property tax, he said.

good luck.
I'm continually surprised at the good ideas SA voters turn down...

SA210

03-04-2006, 10:21 AM

SA210

03-04-2006, 10:23 AM

What ever happened to that mega sports complex next to AT&T?

Buddy Holly

03-04-2006, 12:45 PM

good luck.
I'm continually surprised at the good ideas SA voters turn down...

This plan would raise no new taxes and the taxes it would use come from motel-hotel. This is the same tax that went to vote in 1999 for the Spurs.

I highly doubt it gets a no. Highly... and even then I'm under using the word.

timvp

03-04-2006, 04:02 PM

:lol

There's no rational reason for that to even be the case.

:lol

From the same guy who was convinced that the Saints were moving to San Antonio for good, I'll take this with a truckload of salt.

midgetonadonkey

03-04-2006, 04:04 PM

What ever happened to that mega sports complex next to AT&T?

No shit, I was looking forward to that. :jack

Buddy Holly

03-04-2006, 11:07 PM

From the same guy who was convinced that the Saints were moving to San Antonio for good, I'll take this with a truckload of salt.

Yeah, so when is Nazr gonna have his 5 minute game?

:lol :lol

And the Saints would be here if Tags wasn't so intent on not having a team in San Antonio.

Buddy Holly

03-04-2006, 11:09 PM

No shit, I was looking forward to that. :jack

I'm trying to figure out what the jerkoff smiley is for.

Aggie Hoopsfan

03-05-2006, 12:09 AM

There's no rational reason for that to even be the case.

So Buddy, where are your San Antonio Saints season tickets this coming year?

That's what I thought.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 12:18 AM

So Buddy, where are your San Antonio Saints season tickets this coming year?

That's what I thought.

That's what you thought?

Give me a break. Quote me on where I said they were DEF. staying until next season. Probably in the initial stage of things but once Tags feelings became known, I pretty much knew there was a slim chance of them staying.

But I'm glad to see you have no rational or on the subject response.

Not surprised.

SequSpur

03-05-2006, 01:28 AM

All I know is there better be some fuckin shade or air conditioning there.......

I went to see the orioles and rangers in august at 3 pm and i couldn't make it 2 innings.... it was fuckin hot.

midgetonadonkey

03-05-2006, 01:45 AM

I'm trying to figure out what the jerkoff smiley is for.

I was calling you a jerk off for believing the shit would actually happen.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 01:54 AM

I was calling you a jerk off for believing the shit would actually happen.

The NFL or MLB?

jcrod

03-05-2006, 01:54 AM

I don't think baseball would work as much as football would. I mean come on, there's what 80+ games at home. Do you really think SA would sell out or come close to selling out 80+ games a yr. NO WAY! How many seats does the average stadium hold?

We should just hold out for the Saints when they can't sell shit there next season. They'll be looking for a home come 07-08.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 01:58 AM

I don't think baseball would work as much as football would. I mean come on, there's what 80+ games at home. Do you really think SA would sell out or come close to selling out 80+ games a yr.

Um... have you seen the season avg. for attendance at baseball games?

About 23,000.

How many seats does the average stadium hold?

Between 45k and 55k

jcrod

03-05-2006, 02:02 AM

So you going to build a stadium thats seats 50k and only sell less than half of those seats a yr. Come on, thats stupid. They should just stick with trying for football.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:10 AM

So you going to build a stadium thats seats 50k and only sell less than half of those seats a yr.

Works for Arizona who has a 49k seat stadium and only avgs. 25k a game.

It also works for the Coloardo Rockies who have a 50k stadium and pack in a whooping 24k.

Atlanta has a 50k stadium and avg. a good 31k.

atlfan25

03-05-2006, 02:18 AM

30k is about the mlb average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:21 AM

30k is about the mlb average.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Between 23k and 25k doing the math via those numbers. 30k is being nice.

jcrod

03-05-2006, 02:24 AM

Works for Arizona who has a 49k seat stadium and only avgs. 25k a game.

It also works for the Coloardo Rockies who have a 50k stadium and pack in a whooping 24k.

Atlanta has a 50k stadium and avg. a good 31k.

OK, that makes sense now. :shootme

The Spurs struggle to pack 17-18k for 41 games a yr. This is a team that has won 3 rings the past 7yrs.

So lets bring in baseball (in a football county) with 80+ games a yr and expect to avg at lest 24k of a 50k stadium a game. Ok I'm all for it.

Kiss any hope for a football team to come if this goes through. Especially when it fails miserably and they leave in 5-7 yrs.

I hope I'm 100% wrong and we succeed, but I doubt it.

T Park

03-05-2006, 02:25 AM

no baseball team sells out every night.

If they are averaging 25 to 30 thow a night, they are making good money.

Bring the SA Marlins on down!!! :)

atlfan25

03-05-2006, 02:25 AM

Between 23k and 25k doing the math via those numbers. 30k is being nice.
looking at the overall numbers in the right side there are only 2 teams that average under 23-25k

looking at just home attendance, 2/3 of the teams have home attendance over 25k

so i don't know how that would add up to an overall mlb attendance of 23-25k

scott

03-05-2006, 02:30 AM

Between 23k and 25k doing the math via those numbers. 30k is being nice.

Using advanced Microsoft Excel technology (the =average(num1,num2) function) - the average MLB attendence in 2005 was 30,922.

jcrod

03-05-2006, 02:31 AM

Using advanced Microsoft Excel technology (the =average(num1,num2) function) - the average MLB attendence in 2005 was 30,922.

:lol

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:33 AM

OK, that makes sense now. :shootme

The Spurs struggle to pack 17-18k for 41 games a yr. This is a team that has won 3 rings the past 7yrs.

Struggle? They've sold out every game this season.

They never in the past have had trouble selling out playoff games.

And you wanna know something, Mr. Know it All, the LAKERS never sold out every game during their threepeat era with Shaq and Kobe.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:35 AM

looking at the overall numbers in the right side there are only 2 teams that average under 23-25k

looking at just home attendance, 2/3 of the teams have home attendance over 25k

so i don't know how that would add up to an overall mlb attendance of 23-25k

That's because I did it off the top of my head without using the entire number.

Which is my fault.

midgetonadonkey

03-05-2006, 02:35 AM

The NFL or MLB?

The Eastside NFL, MLB, Nascar, PGA sports complex.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:36 AM

That's because I did it off the top of my head without using the entire number.

Which is my fault.

jcrod

03-05-2006, 02:38 AM

And you wanna know something, Mr. Know it All, the LAKERS never sold out every game during their threepeat era with Shaq and Kobe.

:lol

I really don't know that much about baseball, don't like it very much at all. Thats why I kept asking questions about the seating. But it just doesn't make sense, it really doesn't. Not if we're hoping to bring in a football team.

We should be saving the "stadium plan" for a football team. But I guess you try to get what you can when it comes around. It will put us back another 10+yrs before we even think about a football team.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:39 AM

The Eastside NFL, MLB, Nascar, PGA sports complex.

PGA sports? The east side complex doesn't have anything PGA porposed. Just a relocated and bigger golf course to the one that's currently there.

As for the project itself.

You really don't understand how it is to work, huh?

Everything sans the sports stadiums would be built with private money from investors.

The "Vision" is to help entice teams and leagues to relocate or expand here.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:41 AM

:lol

I really don't know that much about baseball, don't like it very much at all. Thats why I kept asking questions about the seating. But it just doesn't make sense, it really doesn't. Not if we're hoping to bring in a football team.

The thing is, you're using your own personal feelings to gauge this thing.

We should be saving the "stadium plan" for a football team.

What football team?

That's like saying your saving yourself for that really hot girl with a boyfriend when there's an as hot girl standing right next to you asking you out.

midgetonadonkey

03-05-2006, 02:42 AM

PGA sports? The east side complex doesn't have anything PGA porposed. Just a relocated and bigger golf course to the one that's currently there.

As for the project itself.

You really don't understand how it is to work, huh?

Everything sans the sports stadiums would be built with private money from investors.

The "Vision" is to help entice teams and leagues to relocate or expand here.

I still say you are a jackoff for thinking that shit is possible. What kind of private investors are going to put up money for all that shit without even knowing whether teams or leagues will fill them.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:47 AM

I still say you are a jackoff for thinking that shit is possible. What kind of private investors are going to put up money for all that shit without even knowing whether teams or leagues will fill them.

Exactly, but with the Marlins in serious discussions with the county, what developer wouldn't want to invest in a complex where one could live, shop, party, work and watch a sporting event.

Developers/Investors going where they can make money. And just like most modern sports facilities in America, a lot ar enow coming with "sports complex's" attached.

The Staples Center and its Downtown LA complex.

Dallas with the Mavs Victory project and the Cowboys with their sports complex.

It's smart business.

Again, you get the team to commit here, that stuff will go up.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:48 AM

Also, you should know that there are two different "proposals" for creatling a sporting complex.

One by Bexar County and another by HollyHills.

jcrod

03-05-2006, 02:48 AM

The thing is, you're using your own personal feelings to gauge this thing.

No, I really don't think it will work. The only reason its gotten this far is because Wolfe is a Major baseball fan. San Antonio is not a baseball city. Do you see this city going crazy for the Astro's or Rangers, like they do for the Cowboys or Texans. No. Again I hope it works, but I doubt it.

What football team? That's like saying your saving yourself for that really hot girl with a boyfriend when there's an as hot girl standing right next to you asking you out.

Huh, did you read my next line???

"But I guess you try to get what you can when it comes around"

atlfan25

03-05-2006, 02:52 AM

all i know is, if i'm still living here when a team comes, i'd find any way i can to buy at least a half season ticket package

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:55 AM

No, I really don't think it will work. The only reason its gotten this far is because Wolfe is a Major baseball fan.

Yeah. that's it. I guess Hardberger isn't as much of a fan for NFL as Wolff is for Baseball.

What are you? 5?

San Antonio is not a baseball city.

And Dallas, Phoenix, Charlotte weren't hockey cities.

Give me a break.

Do you see this city going crazy for the Astro's or Rangers, like they do for the Cowboys or Texans. No. Again I hope it works, but I doubt it.

Yeah,that's a great way to guage a city in whether or not they can support a MLB team.

"How much does your city get off to for teams of the same sport in other cities?"

What the fuck kind of retarded methodology is that?

midgetonadonkey

03-05-2006, 02:57 AM

San Antonio is not a baseball city. Do you see this city going crazy for the Astro's or Rangers, like they do for the Cowboys or Texans. No. Again I hope it works, but I doubt it.

I think people here will support any major franchise that comes around simply because it is a part of the city. It may be easier to get people to support a new baseball team than it would a new football team. Not many people would want to turn their back on the Cowboys to support the Saints, but people that have no ties to any baseball franchise would support a new San Antonio team simply because it's the cities team. Even if they aren't really into baseball.

scott

03-05-2006, 02:58 AM

That's like saying your saving yourself for that really hot girl with a boyfriend when there's an as hot girl standing right next to you asking you out.

Except MLB baseball is more like a chick so fat and ugly that you still wouldn't fuck her with your buddy's dick even after you are shitface drunk.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 02:58 AM

Except MLB baseball is more like a chick so fat and ugly that you still wouldn't fuck her with your buddy's dick even after you are shitface drunk.

Dude, I've seen your pictures.

If MLB is that, you're what, the NHL? MLS?

scott

03-05-2006, 03:01 AM

I'm the guy who doesn't jack off to the San Antonio Business Journal.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 03:03 AM

I'm the guy who doesn't jack off to the San Antonio Business Journal.

If we could all be so lucky. :jack

jcrod

03-05-2006, 03:06 AM

Yeah. that's it. I guess Hardberger isn't as much of a fan for NFL as Wolff is for Baseball.

What are you? 5?

And Dallas, Phoenix, Charlotte weren't hockey cities.

Give me a break.

Yeah,that's a great way to guage a city in whether or not they can support a MLB team.

"How much does your city get off to for teams of the same sport in other cities?"

What the fuck kind of retarded methodology is that?

There you go with the name calling, who's 5 now?

Yes I think you can guage a citys interest in the sport by how they follow it. If you like/love baseball you would follow a team. You're telling me you wouldn't??????

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 03:10 AM

There you go with the name calling, who's 5 now?

Name calling?

What name did I call you?

Yes I think you can guage a citys interest in the sport by how they follow it.

What?

How do you gauge almost 2 million people? Not every one is a Rangers or Astro's fan.

Boy are you limiting yourself if you take that route.

If you like/love baseball you would follow a team. You're telling me you wouldn't??????

Yeah.

I'm a huge football fan. Yet, I have no "team."

My dad loves football. His team... The Packers. He has three different Favre jersey's.

I'm guessing had you been in charge of gauging whether the city was ready for football, my father and I wouldn't have been included. Seeing how I have no team and my fathers team is the Packers.

You would of been asking who the Cowboy and Texan fans were.

Aggie Hoopsfan

03-05-2006, 03:31 AM

That's what you thought?

Give me a break. Quote me on where I said they were DEF. staying until next season. Probably in the initial stage of things but once Tags feelings became known, I pretty much knew there was a slim chance of them staying.

But I'm glad to see you have no rational or on the subject response.

Not surprised.

Gimme a break Captain Highway. I'm not going to go back and search the archives for your bullshit. You were running around the site for two months with your gold and block pom poms declaring that the deal was done to keep the Saints in San Antonio.

Don't go fetal because you got called out on your South Texas Sports Mecca pipe dream again.

Aggie Hoopsfan

03-05-2006, 03:34 AM

I'm the guy who doesn't jack off to the San Antonio Business Journal.

And when he gets through with that Buddy pulls out the Highway Monthly and folds out his Southside Centerfold. :lol

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 03:35 AM

Gimme a break Captain Highway. I'm not going to go back and search the archives for your bullshit. You were running around the site for two months with your gold and block pom poms declaring that the deal was done to keep the Saints in San Antonio.

Don't go fetal because you got called out on your South Texas Sports Mecca pipe dream again.

:lol :lol

Great quotes by me.

Dude, how many threads where there in total dealing with the Saints?

Three? Four tops?

You can keyword search your way to quotes where I said the Saints in SA was a done deal was finalized was gonna happen, a sure thing.

God damn are you fucking butt pirate.

Melmart1

03-05-2006, 06:28 AM

God damn are you fucking butt pirate.

Again with the gay thing. I guess I just don't get why people who don't agree with you are gay. Like that's the worst thing you can call them.

As for MLB, I would love a local team. That being said, I think it will put a severe, possibly fatal crimp in any NFL plans in the future. For one of two reasons:

1. The city may be able to support 2 pro teams, but not 3. So I don't see the NFL coming to town if there is MLB and NBA both here.

2. The city fails miserably at MLB, thus proving that this is a one-horse town and nobody will ever take us seriously again when courting a pro team.

But since I just don't see the NFL coming here (at least not in the foreseable future), I say we go for the Marlins. However, I realize I am in the minority as a baseball fan in these parts, so it is hard for me to gauge the level of interest amongst others.

CharlieMac

03-05-2006, 08:57 AM

I can't believe people still think Googling shit will make then an expert on a topic.

j-6

03-05-2006, 11:23 AM

(1) If SA is such a fertile MLB market, why is it currently a AA town (competing against places like Tulsa, Wichita, Corpus, and Midland) instead of a AAA city (with more talented players and cities like New Orleans, Memphis, Nashville, Portland, and Vegas)? I'm not terribly interested in an excuse revolving around their long-standing history and relationship with the Texas League after reading this. (http://texas-league.com/history/franchise/)

(2) What draws better: the Missions or the Rampage?

According to the Sports Network, the Rampage have averaged 4,261 (http://sports.ctnow.com/default.asp?c=ctnow&page=mlh/stat/ahl-attendance.htm) fans a game this season, below the league average of 5,329.

The Missions averaged 3,874 (http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsBBT/BC-BBT-STAT-TEXATT-R.html), 800 fans a night below the league average of 4,676, despite drawing from a market of nearly 1.9 million people according to our resident population analyst.

High school football draws better. What I don't get is how Bexar County all of a sudden became this baseball haven when it can't fill 3/4ths of its minor league park consistently, and the AHL team get more attendees than the Missions.

I've gone on record here saying that I didn't think SA was a very good fit for an NFL team, but that at least is feasible. This is trying to put a square peg in a round hole. There is no existing facility to be used temporarily. Not only would a retractable roof stadium pretty much be mandatory, it's going to cost more than the $300M Wolff wants to spend. And once all of that falls into place, a metro area basically the size of Milwaukee - with no history of supporting baseball - has to put 25K in the stands 81 times a year. SA can't fill an indoor arena - capacity roughly 18K - that's home to the beloved three-time league champions to sellout level all 41 times they play at home during the regular season.

The Spurs come damn close, but they don't play 3 and a half hour long games outside in the summer.

Aggie Hoopsfan

03-05-2006, 01:50 PM

God damn are you fucking butt pirate.

Didn't you tell someone earlier in this thread to quit acting like they're five? Look in the mirror asswipe.

As for your quotes on the Saints, like I said, why waste my time? Everyone on this forum read your drivel back in the fall quoting population growth and all this other random shit trying to puff your hopes up about the 'logic' of the Saints coming to SA, saying Benson will bring the team here, there's no way the league doesn't let it happen with the support we showed, yada yada yada.

It must suck to try and spin shit as much as you end up having to do on all this, and in the end Wolff is a fucking idiot if he thinks pro baseball will be successful in SA. Further, if they go down that path, you can kiss any hope of an NFL team coming to San Antonio in the next 50 years out the door.

SA's only real hope to bring a second pro sports franchise to SA and have it stick is the NFL, and the idiot politicians who like to fuck everything up down there would be smart to recognize that and stay on that path.

Peter

03-05-2006, 03:41 PM

Whatever happened to HollyHills? I thought they had financing for the football/baseball/cricket/field hockey stadium multi-plex lined up?

Peter

03-05-2006, 03:44 PM

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 04:10 PM

No surprise, the same ass clowns back to reguritate their own stupid shit.

It's like they're stuck in "play shit nonstop" mode.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 04:13 PM

atlfan25

03-05-2006, 04:15 PM

I just keep wondering why everyone one keeps talking about afternoon home games during the week. The mlb hardly ever schedules afternoon games during the week, they only do that for the cubs. The days games are always on like a Sunday.

It isn't that hot at night in SA to keep people away from games, is it?

Peter

03-05-2006, 04:17 PM

No surprise, the same ass clowns back to reguritate their own stupid shit.

It's like they're stuck in "play shit nonstop" mode.

....like "HollyHills is ready to commence construction"? When was that, 3 months ago?

Melmart1

03-05-2006, 05:42 PM

Atlfan is right, the only time there are day games during the week is if it is a travel day and the team has to play elsewhere the very next day. That only happens once, twice a month, though. The rest are all at night.

That being said, San Antonio needs to choose carefully whether they want MLB or NFL. Because they can't have both. I still have my doubts about San Antonio being a baseball town, but they definitely will never be a 3-team town. Just can't see it happening.

jcrod

03-05-2006, 05:53 PM

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:15 PM

....like "HollyHills is ready to commence construction"? When was that, 3 months ago?

You quoted me on that? :lol :lol :lol :lol

Please, I wouldn't be foolish enough to say that.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:18 PM

This is exactly what I was saying on my post. Doesn't take rocket science.

Yeah, it doesn't take a rocket science to post the attendance for two minor league teams.

Brillance wraped in genusis I say.

Give me a break, it's the same retarded methodolgy you used.

I guess not so great minds also think alike.

Peter

03-05-2006, 06:19 PM

You quoted me on that? :lol :lol :lol :lol

Please, I wouldn't be foolish enough to say that.

...and yet you did.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:20 PM

...and yet you did.

Quote me than. It shouldn't be that hard to. :lol

In the days after HollyHills made mention of thier plans they said the soonest they'd start construction would be two years.

:lol

SA210

03-05-2006, 06:26 PM

San Antonio will be alot better and different in 2009 and 2010. Haters need to stop hating and just move out if they think so lowly of us and we're not worthy. I know Peter doesn't like San Antonio de Bexar :rolleyes, he really shows it.

Our city is changing dramatically. 2009 is 3 years away, after Toyota and other such companies would already be established. We're on the way up. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:30 PM

Exactly, it won't be until 2010 when the Marlins could play here.

By then San Antonio will have a population of about 2.3 million, maybe more.

Economic growth will continue at a buzzing speed.

San Antonio has changed a lot since 2002, by 2010 this place will have changed even more.

Peter

03-05-2006, 06:33 PM

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=616417&postcount=444

Seems so. Tuesday will be the announcement.

Hopefully get some renderings.

You were certain an announcement on the start date would be made and none occurred.

Peter

03-05-2006, 06:35 PM

Exactly, it won't be until 2010 when the Marlins could play here.

By then San Antonio will have a population of about 2.3 million, maybe more.

Why stop at 2.3 mil? SA metro will have a population of 10 million because every American will realize the greatness that is San Antonio.

Economic growth will continue at a buzzing speed.

San Antonio has changed a lot since 2002, by 2010 this place will have changed even more.

Absolutely. No harm in extrapolating one year's change over 8.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:39 PM

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=616417&postcount=444

You were certain an announcement on the start date would be made and none occurred.
:lol :lol :lol

The announcement of the project. Up until then it was hearsay or facts about it were barely known.

That Tuesday was said to be the day HollyHills would have their press conference annoucing the project.

I believe they rescheduled and their official press conference was not that Tuesday, I believe them not having the purchase of the Red Berry Mansion done by that day kept it from happening.

When they bought it they had the thing the next day.

But wait how the hell would that equate to me saying: "Construction will soon to happen" or "Construction will happen."

:lol :lol

I’m sorry dude, get the fuck out of here.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:41 PM

Why stop at 2.3 mil? SA metro will have a population of 10 million because every American will realize the greatness that is San Antonio.

Wow, do I sense a bit of...

Kid, this is via current population growth figures. Not me pulling numbers.

Absolutely. No harm in extrapolating one year's change over 8.

From 2002 to 2005, San Antonio has changed, with no let down in sight and 2005 being one of the best if not the best years in San Antonio's history in terms of growth population and economic wise with many experts saying 2006 will be an even better year.

Peter

03-05-2006, 06:44 PM

:lol :lol :lol

The announcement of the project. Up until then it was hearsay or facts about it were barely known.

That Tuesday was said to be the day HollyHills would have their press conference annoucing the project.

I believe they rescheduled and their official press conference was not that Tuesday, I believe them not having the purchase of the Red Berry Mansion done by that day kept it from happening.

When they bought it they had the thing the next day.

But wait how the hell would that equate to me saying: "Construction will soon to happen" or "Construction will happen."

:lol :lol

I’m sorry dude, get the fuck out of here.

You represented that you were privy to inside info. You obviously were lying.

Peter

03-05-2006, 06:45 PM

Wow, do I sense a bit of...

Kid, this is via current population growth figures. Not me pulling numbers.

Again, you are extrapolating short-term growth over multiple years. Get a clue, kid.

From 2002 to 2005, San Antonio has changed, with no let down in sight and 2005 being one of the best if not the best years in San Antonio's history in terms of growth population and economic wise with many experts saying 2006 will be an even better year.

But of course, San Antonio will continue to grow at this rate in perpetuity.

SA210

03-05-2006, 06:46 PM

Why stop at 2.3 mil? SA metro will have a population of 10 million because every American will realize the greatness that is San Antonio.
Peter, why don't you leave SA de Bexar? Do you think you changed anything by exxagerating the point? Obviously You don't realize the greatness SA is and what it could be, because You and people like You try their best to bring us down. Pessimist!

Your best arguements are always exaggerating what was said to make it a joke or saying that we aren't up to par wth other cities. Your one of the most closed minded people in here. What, do you think we'll always be small? Do you think 100 years from now we'll still be a backwater town that you want us to be?

It seems as if you would believe that. But realistically, we will be no New York tomorrow, we get the point, but we can be a better SA. You hate it. We get the point.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:46 PM

You represented that you were privy to inside info. You obviously were lying.

Privy to inside info?

Not personally, but yes, in a way, via another source. But it's not "inside."

Peter

03-05-2006, 06:47 PM

Privy to inside info?

Not personally, but yes, in a way, via another source. But it's not "inside."

Then not inside and not accurate, apparently.

Peter

03-05-2006, 06:48 PM

Peter, why don't you leave SA de Bexar? Do you think you changed anything by exxagerating the point? Obviously You don't realize the greatness SA is and what it could be, because You and people like You try their best to bring us down. Pessimist!

Your best arguements are always exaggerating what was said to make it a joke or saying that we aren't up to par wth other cities. Your one of the most closed minded people in here. What, do you think we'll always be small? Do you think 100 years from now we'll still be a backwater town that you want us to be?

It seems as if you would believe that. But realistically, we will be no New York tomorrow, we get the point, but we can be a better SA. You hate it. We get the point.

So we should continue to delude ourselves?

SA210

03-05-2006, 06:50 PM

So we should continue to delude ourselves?

Delude yourself. You think negatively about San Antonio. I see opportunity for the future.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:51 PM

Again, you are extrapolating short-term growth over multiple years. Get a clue, kid.

Not really, San Antonio's growth has been very consistent for the past decade.

It hasn't been until the last couple of years that there's been a bump in that growth.

And guess why? Because of weather, housing market, job growth, etc.

All that has a very large impact on a cities population growth.

And with 50,000 homes planned for the far northwest side alone for to be built within the next 10 years, I doubt forecasters are off.

Look at Phoenix, a city in the 90's that had a nice consistent growth. But no in the 2000's they alone have added nearly 800k in 5 short years way above their 90's growth numbers.

Also, 4-5 years isn't a large enough gap where forecasters are off by much. 20-50 years now that's just insane.

But of course, San Antonio will continue to grow at this rate in perpetuity.

:lol :lol

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 06:52 PM

So we should continue to delude ourselves?

Delude ourselves, kid you don't even call San Antonio home.

Peter

03-05-2006, 07:36 PM

Delude ourselves, kid you don't even call San Antonio home.

Really, kid? Where do I live?

Peter

03-05-2006, 07:38 PM

Not really, San Antonio's growth has been very consistent for the past decade.

It hasn't been until the last couple of years that there's been a bump in that growth.

And guess why? Because of weather, housing market, job growth, etc.

All that has a very large impact on a cities population growth.

And with 50,000 homes planned for the far northwest side alone for to be built within the next 10 years, I doubt forecasters are off.

Look at Phoenix, a city in the 90's that had a nice consistent growth. But no in the 2000's they alone have added nearly 800k in 5 short years way above their 90's growth numbers.

Also, 4-5 years isn't a large enough gap where forecasters are off by much. 20-50 years now that's just insane.

Actually, most forecasts are worthless past the next 6 months, if that.

j-6

03-05-2006, 07:51 PM

The Marlins drew 1.85 million last season (Miami Herald (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=miami&page=mlb/teams/014/attendance.aspx?team=014)). I want to hear how SA plans on meeting or exceeding this total when the minor league hockey affiliate outdraws the local minor league baseball team, and why Round Rock has a Triple-A team and the more populous metro area to the south is slumming around with a Double-A franchise. Is Nolan Ryan part of the vast anti-San Antonio conspiracy as well?

By the way, when is Austin's population projected to surpass San Antonio, anyway? 2015 or so?

Thanks in advance.

TheTruth

03-05-2006, 08:05 PM

Das Texan

03-05-2006, 08:59 PM

this would be like my wet dream come true if this happens.

baseball in san antonio.

and my favorite team relocating to san antonio.

damn.

i'd be in heaven.

i will still believe it when i see it.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 11:40 PM

The Marlins drew 1.85 million last season (Miami Herald (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=miami&page=mlb/teams/014/attendance.aspx?team=014)). I want to hear how SA plans on meeting or exceeding this total when the minor league hockey affiliate outdraws the local minor league baseball team, and why Round Rock has a Triple-A team and the more populous metro area to the south is slumming around with a Double-A franchise. Is Nolan Ryan part of the vast anti-San Antonio conspiracy as well?

Retarded metho... oh nevermind.

By the way, when is Austin's population projected to surpass San Antonio, anyway? 2015 or so?

Half past never.

No, seriously.

If you want me to tell you why, I will. Just ask.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 11:42 PM

Actually, most forecasts are worthless past the next 6 months, if that.

Seriously? Give me a fucking break. You are a gem!

j-6

03-05-2006, 11:44 PM

Half past never.

No, seriously.

If you want me to tell you why, I will. Just ask.

OK, when? Retarded metho's from around the world wish to know.

Buddy Holly

03-05-2006, 11:52 PM

OK, when? Retarded metho's from around the world wish to know.

When? I told you, never.

Projections that had that used late 90's growth while that city was in a major tech boom. Projects had it at about 2040.

Those projections would have been quasi-realistic had it maintain that "boom" era growth while San Antonio maintained its morderate growth rate.

Since the tech bust roles have reversed in population growth.

San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the state and the third fastest/largest growing MSA/CMSA in the state.

It's being said that in 2005 alone San Antonio added a net of nearly 100,000 people with larger ingrowth and evacuees.

j-6

03-05-2006, 11:57 PM

When? I told you, never.

Projections that had that used late 90's growth while that city was in a major tech boom. Projects had it at about 2040.

Those projections would have been quasi-realistic had it maintain that "boom" era growth while San Antonio maintained its morderate growth rate.

Since the tech bust roles have reversed in population growth.

San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the state and the third fastest/largest growing MSA/CMSA in the state.

It's being said that in 2005 alone San Antonio added a net of nearly 100,000 people with larger ingrowth and evacuees.

Thank you. Really. Now while you're in an answering mood, explain to me how Major League Baseball will work in San Antonio when the minor league hockey team outdraws the mid-level minor league baseball team. Please provide some 81-game analysis at SA's 2010 projected growth rate.

I appreciate it.

SA210

03-06-2006, 12:02 AM

Kinda like our support for our Minor Leaugue football teams, but showed up for the NFL.

Buddy Holly

03-06-2006, 12:02 AM

Thank you. Really. Now while you're in an answering mood, explain to me how Major League Baseball will work in San Antonio when the minor league hockey team outdraws the mid-level minor league baseball team. Please provide some 81-game analysis at SA's 2010 projected growth rate.

I appreciate it.

There is no such answer for that question.

How idiotic is it use a minor league teams attendance to then judge whether a city can or can not support a pro sports team.

That's like that other method of asking "how did the city react when the professional sports team in Houston went to the world series?"

"Not great, oh well, lets go on to another city and see how they reacted."

There are so many factors that go into recipe that makes a city ablebodied to support a professional team and those two things aren't one of them.

Sorry.

It's a flawed and to again put bluntly, retarded method.

j-6

03-06-2006, 12:14 AM

Y'know, I gotta disagree with you. SA has proven that they can support pro football to some degree. Baseball, however is another subject entirely.

I just don't see SA supporting a 70-112 ballclub for 81 games, which is about what you'll see without a salary cap in one of the smallest MLB markets in the country.

However, there is no such answer for this question for this either, until the Marlins either show up or use SA for an economic prostitute. Personally, I'd whore out for the Saints.

Melmart1

03-06-2006, 12:23 AM

If SA ever wants an NFL team, they need to pass on the Marlins. I would see a baseball game any day of the year, but methinks my fellow San Antonians would rather see football and won't support the Marlins beyond a year of novelty and morbid curiosity. Just my two cents.

Buddy Holly

03-06-2006, 12:36 AM

Y'know, I gotta disagree with you. SA has proven that they can support pro football to some degree. Baseball, however is another subject entirely.

How so? Again, because your arguement is retarded, sorry.

San Antonio has had how many minor league football teams? All with bad attedance... yet we can fill the Dome for a team that isn't ours, with very little notice or time to prepare.

As for baseball, the Missions aren't some upstart team or been around for 5-10 years. They've been here longer than the Spurs. San Antonio has also had a strong history with baseball.

I just don't see SA supporting a 70-112 ballclub for 81 games, which is about what you'll see without a salary cap in one of the smallest MLB markets in the country.

That's great, you have an opinion, you expressed it. So lets move on.

scott

03-06-2006, 01:06 AM

How idiotic is it use a minor league teams attendance to then judge whether a city can or can not support a pro sports team.

Well, your opinion that MLB would thrive in SA is based on nothing more than there being 2.3 million people here in 2010. We saw how well having 4 million people worked for Miami.

Buddy Holly

03-06-2006, 01:12 AM

Well, your opinion that MLB would thrive in SA is based on nothing more than there being 2.3 million people here in 2010. We saw how well having 4 million people worked for Miami.

I don't know whether or not it will thrive. I don't, Neither does anyone else on the face of this planet.

The only one true way to find out. :spin

So lets fucking do it!

Buddy Holly

03-06-2006, 01:47 AM

County wants a local hook for Marlins

Web Posted: 03/06/2006 12:00 AM CST

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Any potential deal with the Florida Marlins to relocate to San Antonio must include the promise that the baseball team seek local investors, County Judge Nelson Wolff said Sunday.

"I've talked to them about it," said Wolff, who is leading efforts to lure the Marlins to San Antonio. "We didn't go over how much the local investors would own, but it has to be a significant piece.

"There won't be a deal without it."

New York art dealer Jeffrey Loria bought the Marlins in 2002 for $158.5 million from John Henry, who now owns the Boston Red Sox. Loria owns 90 percent of the Marlins, according to published reports.

Wolff said his first conversation with Marlins president David Samson included discussion of the ownership situation. Samson is also Loria's stepson.

"For me to go to the voters for approval of a stadium, there has to be people attached to the Marlins from San Antonio and not just an owner who lives in New York and does not have a feel for San Antonio," Wolff said. "David knows that."

Asked if he has identified possible local investors, Wolff said: "There is an interest, let's just put it that way."

A Marlins spokesman said Samson would "encourage and expect to have" local ownership in the club should it move to San Antonio.

Wolff is expected to present the Miami-based team with a stadium-financing plan this week that calls for an extension of the hotel and car rental taxes voters approved in 1999 to pay to build the AT&T Center.

If negotiations between the county and the Marlins intensify, Wolff said he would try to put the measure on the November ballot.

But it won't get to that point unless the Marlins prove they are serious about attracting South Texas investors.

"Local ownership is a key," Wolff said. "I'm not saying it all has to be local ownership, but a significant part has to be, so we believe we have some loyalty to the city."

Samson visited San Antonio in early December, meeting with Wolff and Mayor Phil Hardberger. The Marlins also have toured Portland, Ore., and talked with officials from Norfolk, Va.

Wolff said Major League Baseball has given its blessing to the Marlins' talks with Bexar County. The Marlins say they would prefer to stay in South Florida, but stadium talks there have stalled.

The Marlins have a lease at Dolphins Stadium, home of Miami's NFL franchise, through 2007. The deal includes a series of one-year options that run through 2010.

"Major League Baseball won't come down here and invest a lot of money if they don't think it will work here," Wolff said. "Early indications are they do think it will work."

Wolff said that stands in contrast to the NFL's efforts to prevent the New Orleans Saints from moving to San Antonio, which NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue characterized as a market too small for a league franchise.

Hurricane Katrina forced the Saints to spend last season in San Antonio, where they played three home games at the Alamodome before returning to Louisiana.

"The NFL never had a high opinion of us," Wolff said. "A lot of it, I think, has to do with the Cowboys having such a strong hold on this market. Hell, everyone is a Cowboys fanatic here."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA030606.1A.marlinslocal.832ca6a.html

SA210

03-06-2006, 09:02 AM

Well, your opinion that MLB would thrive in SA is based on nothing more than there being 2.3 million people here in 2010. We saw how well having 4 million people worked for Miami.

Well, not only population-wise in 4 years, but also, San Antonio income will be up as well with more big corporations. San Antonio is booming. As the Mayor said, in the future, we will look back on these years, as San Antonio's Golden Years. I believe that's true.

j-6

03-06-2006, 10:22 AM

I get it. Everyone who doesn't share your opinion is gay or retarded. Glad we got that out of the way.

Now let's see if you can answer some other stuff without being derogatory: San Antonio has a Double-A baseball team that can't outdraw Tulsa at the gate with less than 150,000 fans a year. Austin (Round Rock) and Sacramento are the two top draws in Triple-A with over 700,000 fans a year - both cities smaller than SA. I'm still waiting for the answer on how San Antonio is going to meet or exceed 1.85 million in attendance when the AHL team does better than the current minor league affiliate. Are these people that are relocating to San Antonio on your growth plan the ones that will fill the Marlins new stadium 81 times a year? Unlike Portland and Vegas, or Austin and Sacramento, the residents in Bexar County right now won't even go fill a 6K seat minor league field.

Also, if SA is so ready for a major league baseball team, why didn't they go get the orphaned Expos when they were playing in that bandbox in Puerto Rico half the season? Washington barely wants the new Senators as it is.

Now I want to make my opinion real clear on this. I don't want SA to get the Marlins because when baseball fails, whatever support the town drummed up for an NFL team will be swept under the rug and forgotten. No matter how aggressive growth projections are for that area, it will still be a small market compared to New York, Los Angeles, SF, Chicago, etc. And with no salary cap and an owner like Jeff Loria (the man who fucked over the city of Montreal, population 3.7 million - go read up on the guy), not only is the town destined to get bent over by this greedy SOB, the team is going to suck like all the other Milwaukees of MLB.

Don't kid yourself - you know that SA doesn't support losing teams. With no cap and an owner that finally got the stadium deal he wanted, the team will never be a powerhouse. It'll be like every other small market team - good when the farm system grown players get to their mid-20's and make a run, then shitty when free agency hits and they go to the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, or Giants.

Peter

03-06-2006, 10:28 AM

Why do you hate San Antonio?

j-6

03-06-2006, 10:37 AM

Why do you hate San Antonio?

Because it has a bigger MSA than Brokeback Mountain, and it scored higher on the Wonderlic.

Johnny_Blaze_47

03-06-2006, 11:33 AM

Here's something I think I can offer to the discussion, well, the rational one at least.

Here are a few reasons I don't think the Missions draw as they should.

1. The stadium is pretty shitty now. From talking with people that work for the city as well as the Missions management group, the city just doesn't want to give (or sell) the stadium to the Missions (and the Dave Elmore group) so that they can upgrade and renovate the stadium since the city doesn't have the money to do so.

The team and ownership want to build the stadium up - at least to try and fix what's broken, but the city won't (and really can't) pony up the money for it since it is still their venue. All maintenence, IIRC, was done by city employees.

2. You have to admit, the stadium is in a really shitty part of town. Sorry, but that's just the way that is. It's not the safest venue in the city.

These two thoughts are from my two years of observation as a reporter covering the Missions.

pache100

03-06-2006, 12:07 PM

I have already informed my employers that if this (by some miracle) should happen, I will be in the stands at the ballpark every possible chance. I will always be an Atlanta Braves fan in my heart...but I would sure go see the local team play; hell, I'd have season tickets to the Missions right now if it weren't 50 miles from my house to their stadium.

gameFACE

03-06-2006, 02:15 PM

I wouldn't mind the MLB over the NFL. Bring 'em on. :smokin

"San Antonio has historically thought less of itself than it should," Wolff said, adding, "whether we like it or not, sports is a major element in our life."
mysa (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA030306.09A.Whisper_campaign.1d135432.html)

I love the pessimists in this thread. They really help reinforce the idea that San Antonio is too small town minded. Thanks, man. It’s a waste that Toyota is here. We should have waited for Honda or Nissan. Toyota blows. :rolleyes

SA would support a shitty baseball team no more or less than it would support a shitty NFL or NBA team.

j-6, your idea of using minor league teams as a gauge is a good approach. You also say you would whore yourself out to the Saints. They're a losing team. If San Antonio doesn't support losing teams the Saints will fail here and like the Marlins supposed failure would equally ruin any chances of getting any other professional sports franchise to locate here. Three pro games here were fine but what about season after season of losing.

2. You have to admit, the stadium is in a really shitty part of town. Sorry, but that's just the way that is. It's not the safest venue in the city.
I go to a few games there every summer and i've never had a bad experience. It seems to have a family atmosphere. It's in no more a shitty area than AT&T Center.

gameFACE

03-06-2006, 02:17 PM

Here's the full article I linked above (didn't see it posted):

Spurs churning water to spook the Marlins?

Web Posted: 03/03/2006 12:00 AM CST

Elizabeth Allen
Express-News Staff Writer

While Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff obsesses over bringing Major League Baseball to San Antonio, the Spurs, with the help of the Greater San Antonio Chamber of Commerce president, have been quietly sending out the message that this town's not big enough for two major sports teams.

Along with researching ticket prices and keeping in touch with Florida Marlins president David Samson, Wolff has staff rebutting a Bizjournals.com article saying the San Antonio market doesn't have the personal income to support a second team.

That's because that article is getting a lot of circulation among the town's major corporate players, e-mailed by the Spurs' Vice President Leo Gomez and Greater Chamber president Joe Krier.

Both Krier and Gomez distanced themselves from the article, but each acknowledged sending it to numerous people in February.

"I don't know that I agree with that story's assessment and conclusions," Krier said Thursday. "Oh gosh, well, my view is people should see all of this kind of stuff."

Krier added that any attempt to bring a new professional team to San Antonio should not threaten the Spurs' corporate support. The chamber also dropped Wolff's request last year that it gauge corporate support for a new team, he said, as the chances for snagging the New Orleans Saints began to fade.

Gomez also said he just was passing along information.

"I'm not putting my stamp on it, and I certainly don't believe that," Gomez said of the article. "I simply distributed it ... It certainly wasn't written by me."

T.J. Connolly, a spokesman for HollyHills Development — which wants to bring the Saints to San Antonio, as well as the Indy Racing League — called Krier's and Gomez' statements "doubletalk."

"I'm in PR. Believe me, we're masters of doubletalk in PR," Connolly said. "The e-mail speaks for itself."

The Feb. 13 article analyzed how much total personal income sports markets could spare for another professional sports team. San Antonio didn't make the cut, according to the study. Baseball needs a lot of personal income from its community in part because it has so many home games, the study noted.

The county's rebuttal took issue with the study's source of the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis. The study's 2003 statistics are outdated and ignore both recent and promised job growth, according to the rebuttal.

Its economic areas define the San Antonio market as including Eagle Pass but leaving out Laredo, Corpus Christi and McAllen, said the county report, which supports Wolff's contention that this town is big enough for major league baseball.

Wolff would not speculate on why Gomez and Krier circulated the article. But he said he was glad they did, because he's sending his own research to the same crowd.

"San Antonio has historically thought less of itself than it should," Wolff said, adding, "whether we like it or not, sports is a major element in our life."

But he does like it. Wolff, a former pitcher in the Spanish-American League, had voiced support for Mayor Phil Hardberger's attempts to land the New Orleans Saints. But he never gave it the energy that he's pouring into the Marlins.

He provided letters of support to the Marlins from various local groups. Despite Krier's distribution of the e-mail, one of those letters is from the Greater Chamber, publicly stating its support for pro baseball.

That letter, signed by Chairman Steve Seidel, says the chamber "is aggressively committed to supporting Judge Wolff in this effort ... Our goal is that if your franchise relocates to San Antonio, it would meet with nothing but success."

But the unofficial message, coming from the Spurs, is understandable, Connolly said.

"Leo's paid to not invite anyone else to the party," he said. However, Krier's part "bewildered" him. "I would believe that the Greater Chamber president should be actively embracing the diversification of professional sports in San Antonio."

Johnny_Blaze_47

03-06-2006, 03:29 PM

I wouldn't mind the MLB over the NFL. Bring 'em on. :smokin

mysa (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA030306.09A.Whisper_campaign.1d135432.html)

I love the pessimists in this thread. They really help reinforce the idea that San Antonio is too small town minded. Thanks, man. It’s a waste that Toyota is here. We should have waited for Honda or Nissan. Toyota blows. :rolleyes

SA would support a shitty baseball team no more or less than it would support a shitty NFL or NBA team.

j-6, your idea of using minor league teams as a gauge is a good approach. You also say you would whore yourself out to the Saints. They're a losing team. If San Antonio doesn't support losing teams the Saints will fail here and like the Marlins supposed failure would equally ruin any chances of getting any other professional sports franchise to locate here. Three pro games here were fine but what about season after season of losing.

I go to a few games there every summer and i've never had a bad experience. It seems to have a family atmosphere. It's in no more a shitty area than AT&T Center.

Don't get me wrong, the game experience is great for the resources they have, it's outside the stadium that I think is unsafe.

I know of Missions employees who have had car break-ins during games and during the daytime there.

SpursWoman

03-06-2006, 03:33 PM

2. You have to admit, the stadium is in a really shitty part of town. Sorry, but that's just the way that is. It's not the safest venue in the city.

I think it's more (for me, anyway) that it's so damn far away from anything north of downtown ... I'd take my kids a lot if it were closer. Baseball games are pretty cheap. :) :tu

Taco

03-06-2006, 04:42 PM

Taco is not a big baseball fan............that is all

Das Texan

03-06-2006, 04:44 PM

other than the fact that the marlins would win once they got here, some of you are on the mark.

remember this franchise rebuilt in a small financial market all the way up to a world series team and a winning team the next two years after.

so forget about the losing team thing, this ownership has shown the commitement to winning needed in any viable market.

the other points are very valid, however this one is a farce.

CharlieMac

03-06-2006, 07:05 PM

I think that a few of you bring up great points. Simply, put, if the Marlins win, year after year, people will go. Then an NFL team will come a knockin'. Personally, I'd still rather have an NFL team. But of course LA is a priority for an expansion, so I'll take the MLB team over nothing.

NoLimitSoulja

03-06-2006, 08:27 PM

Baseball will fail in SA. There are EIGHTY ONE fucking homegames. The season ticket sales will be for shit.

Buddy Holly

03-06-2006, 08:36 PM

Baseball will fail in SA. There are EIGHTY ONE fucking homegames. The season ticket sales will be for shit.

Thank you NoLimit for entering this discussion with those key points. Not only were they convincing but what really struck me was how articulate you expressed said key points. Bravo!

CharlieMac

03-06-2006, 09:49 PM

Baseball will fail in SA. There are EIGHTY ONE fucking homegames. The season ticket sales will be for shit.

Downtown, it has a chance. Even Duncan thinks it would be retarded to not build it downtown.

ObiwanGinobili

03-06-2006, 09:53 PM

I love minor league baseball.

I had tickets to a missions game one time & I couldn't find the stadium, never made it there.

j-6

03-07-2006, 12:03 AM

j-6, your idea of using minor league teams as a gauge is a good approach. You also say you would whore yourself out to the Saints. They're a losing team. If San Antonio doesn't support losing teams the Saints will fail here and like the Marlins supposed failure would equally ruin any chances of getting any other professional sports franchise to locate here. Three pro games here were fine but what about season after season of losing.

Thank you for your reasonable post. I guarantee if the Saints moved to SA, I'd come down from Fort Worth at least twice a year to games. The atmosphere was like going to a college game in the game against the Falcons I went to. And I'd be a fan since I've never adopted an NFL team like I've kept the Spurs close over the years. Besides, what better bandwagon to jump on than your so-called "small market" hometown's?

And there's the problem. After seeing firsthand once, and reading quite a bit secondhand how the other two games compared, I completely believe that SA could support the Saints in a way that only a real Spurs fan could appreciate. Y'know, when you strike up a random conversation with a lady at the drugstore about if Manu's ankle is finally healed. People just don't so this in D-FW.

But I wonder if the town likes baseball enough to put an average of 25,000 seats in the stands over eighty times a year. Baseball's sort of a long term love affair kind of sport, with the patient play, the 100 years of history, and the lengthy season. Football is instant gratification, a sixteen game sprint followed by a five week slugfest. Sure, you need to draw 60+K eight times a year or so, but the NFL is the shiniest toy in the box.

I understand the argument concerning the growing city population, and I also know that the NFL granted an expansion team to Dallas when less than 800,000 people lived here in the sixties. Support absolutely trumps population - even with 1.9 million residents. 81 games in which a shitty crowd outdraws a Spurs game in San Antonio's terms - and which is still below average - is just wishful thinking until you try to get Austin involved.

Remember, if baseball flops, the NFL will take notice and SA won't get either league. The odds are much betting better on the NFL and hoping that the growth continues into one day becoming a three-team town.

SequSpur

03-07-2006, 12:18 AM

Ummm..... as usual, most of you have no clue.

I love MLB. I try to make the Trek every year to go catch a few games, when I lived in Denver, I went to the Rockies games 3 times a week. The tickets were cheap, I had maybe one soda and paid for parking. It wasn't that big of a deal.

Now, back to the Minor League shit. Look, I know what real baseball is like and my ass ain't setting foot in Nelson Wolfe Stadium. I went once. There were more errors than my old Coed softball team.

Minor league baseball doesn't compare to seeing a MLB game where there are legends playing every night....

Get fuckin real already and compare and contrast shit that matters.

Minor League Baseball = Drunk Softball League.

j-6

03-07-2006, 12:37 AM

I admire your enthusiasm and in all sincereity hope that at least 24,999 other people in SA feel the same way. But I still would bet on the NFL and take baseball further down the line. After seeing the plights of the Expos/ Senators and now the Marlins, I'd bet further if SA proves to be a rabid supporter of two franchises that there won't be a problem getting some disgruntled MLB team to come to SA sooner or later.

Rocky Balboa

03-07-2006, 09:15 AM

Thank you NoLimit for entering this discussion with those key points. Not only were they convincing but what really struck me was how articulate you expressed said key points. Bravo!

:lmao

Yo! That was a good one Buddy.
Almost as good as my knock-knock jokes, ya know.

pache100

03-07-2006, 09:24 AM

I love minor league baseball.

I had tickets to a missions game one time & I couldn't find the stadium, never made it there.

Was this when they still played at St. Mary's, or was this after they built the new stadium. That old stadium at the university was a little hard to find. I find the new one easy to find and very accessible. My ONLY problem with it is that it's so dang far from where I live and spend most of my time.

I don't think the stadium would fare as well downtown as it would in an outlying area where the traffic would be less of a nightmare. That keeps a lot of people away from things like this, they just don't want to deal with the traffic problems getting in and out when something is located in a heavily congested area. They run the buses for regular season and post-season Spurs games and events, but I doubt if it would be lucrative enough for VIA to run the buses for baseball games. Parking and access downtown would be over the top. It would be much better to put it in a developing area accessible to major thoroughfares and where they could have adequate parking. If they put it downtown, they will be killing it before it gets off the ground, IMO.

gameFACE

03-07-2006, 02:07 PM

but the NFL is the shiniest toy in the box.
That's the real trick here. People associate the NFL as the more powerful and glamourous and kick ass than baseball. As if it somehow offers more legitimacy or stature for your city. (Kind of reminds me of George Carlins old baseball vs football skit.) I'll post some income info you might want to check out in my old Marlins thread in the Baseball Clubhouse.

So we should just sit around and "wait" for football to come around. In the mean time we can continue to consider Wolff Stadium too far or complicated to get to being that it is in a bad location while people in Houston drive 45min to 1 hr downtown sometimes to see both the Rockets and the Astros. And they also have to drive to south Loop 610 to get to Reliant Stadium. I guess all the texans fans live near there so they don't have to drive very far. Are we really that laid back?

To be honest all I want to do is sit at the game and sip a couple of beers.

pache100

03-07-2006, 02:57 PM

That's the real trick here. People associate the NFL as the more powerful and glamourous and kick ass than baseball. As if it somehow offers more legitimacy or stature for your city.

And, that's weird to me. I guess it's because I was raised a baseball kid. I sat in the dark with my family when I was growing up and listened to the Atlanta Braves on the radio, no light other than the green radio dial, and I could see those games like I was there. Summers, I lived at or between little league, school, or Legion baseball fields from the time my brother was 5 years old until my sister graduated from high school (and even still some softball leagues after that).

STILL, to this DAY, when I think of sports in New York...I don't think of the Jets or the Knicks first...first and foremost, I think - YANKEES! (and then, as an afterthought, of course, the Mets).

I always think of the baseball team when I think of any major city in the US. It's an association thing. It would be interesting to know how many others do the same.

The only city whose football team comes into my mind first is Dallas.

jcrod

03-07-2006, 03:35 PM

That's the real trick here. People associate the NFL as the more powerful and glamourous and kick ass than baseball. As if it somehow offers more legitimacy or stature for your city. (Kind of reminds me of George Carlins old baseball vs football skit.) I'll post some income info you might want to check out in my old Marlins thread in the Baseball Clubhouse.

So we should just sit around and "wait" for football to come around. In the mean time we can continue to consider Wolff Stadium too far or complicated to get to being that it is in a bad location while people in Houston drive 45min to 1 hr downtown sometimes to see both the Rockets and the Astros. And they also have to drive to south Loop 610 to get to Reliant Stadium. I guess all the texans fans live near there so they don't have to drive very far. Are we really that laid back?

To be honest all I want to do is sit at the game and sip a couple of beers.

Because for most people it is, baseball use to be #1, but its not anymore. Texas is footbal country, most people would pick to watch football than baseball. What game is the most watch televised event of the yr...SUPER BOWL. To have a chance for your team to be in the SB would be awesome.

For me baseball is to long and to boring. Do they really need 160+ games a yr? I even think basketball has to many games, but baseball has twice as much. And only four teams get into the playoffs and 8 times out of 10 the most successful teams are the ones with the owner has a shit load of money. No cap like football or basketball. Small market teams most times than not are not in the race to win it all.

You take what you can when you can, but give me football any day of the week instead of baseball. I would go and support them if they do come though.

Melmart1

03-07-2006, 04:51 PM

That's the real trick here. People associate the NFL as the more powerful and glamourous and kick ass than baseball. As if it somehow offers more legitimacy or stature for your city. (Kind of reminds me of George Carlins old baseball vs football skit.) I'll post some income info you might want to check out in my old Marlins thread in the Baseball Clubhouse.

So we should just sit around and "wait" for football to come around. In the mean time we can continue to consider Wolff Stadium too far or complicated to get to being that it is in a bad location while people in Houston drive 45min to 1 hr downtown sometimes to see both the Rockets and the Astros. And they also have to drive to south Loop 610 to get to Reliant Stadium. I guess all the texans fans live near there so they don't have to drive very far. Are we really that laid back?

To be honest all I want to do is sit at the game and sip a couple of beers.

I totally agree with you on most of your points, Hector. I am torn about this, because I love baseball so much. It would be kickass to have a team. But the fact is, I am not sure if SA would support baseball. If it falls flat on its face here, not only will the city have egg on its face, but the NFL will never come calling either. We would always be a one-horse town.

As baseball lovers, its easy for us to say we would be at the games. But individual baseball lovers saying they would go is anecdotal at best. We need people who currently are not fans to go as well. Of course, the only way to find out if others would go is to do it. So its a catch-22 anyway you look at it. But having baseball in SA would rock the casbah for me, which is why I am torn.

Buddy Holly

03-07-2006, 07:45 PM

Spurs Consider Buying MLB Team

Florida, Oakland, Minnesota Among Possibilities

SAN ANTONIO -- The San Antonio Spurs have joined efforts to bring a Major League Baseball team to San Antonio, team officials told KSAT News on Monday.

The Spurs are looking at the "probability" of owning a major league team, and are not limiting their search to the Florida Marlins, which visited San Antonio in December.

Sources close to the negotiations said the Spurs also plan to visit with the Oakland A's and Minnesota Twins to explore the possibility of relocation.

"Right now the Spurs are in business besides basketball," Spurs spokesman Leo Gomez said. "We're sincere in looking at the possibility of Major League Baseball in San Antonio."

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff, who had led the county's potential negotiations with the Marlins, embraced the Spurs' plans on Monday. Wolff said he introduced the Marlins to the Spurs during a December visit by the MLB team.

"You've got a bird in the hand," Wolff said. "We'll work with that bird, and if anything else comes along, we'll see what happens in the future."

Wolff said he will present a stadium-financing plan to Marlins management this week. A report from the county's financial advisor is expected to determine what kind of investment the county can contribute to building a new stadium.

Wolff has proposed asking voters to extend the county's hotel-motel tax to pay for a new stadium, which could cost up to $300 million.

"Bottom line, Major League Baseball will do their own research, and so will the Marlins," Wolff said. "They're not going to come here if we cannot support them."

In a related matter, car dealership magnate B.J. "Red" McCombs was among a handful of local private investors Wolff called on recently in an effort to lure the Marlins to the Alamo City.

Sources told KSAT 12 News on Monday that McCombs, who used to own the Spurs, the Denver Nuggets and Minnesota Vikings, may be willing to once again be at least part owner of a professional sports franchise.

McCombs did not return phone calls for comment.

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/1-1&fp=440e82173251a3e7&ei=ISkORPyRILPywQH4_K2kDA&url=http%3A//www.ksat.com/sports/7777178/detail.html&cid=1104672175

Buddy Holly

03-08-2006, 11:44 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2360397

San Antonio stepping up efforts in pursuit of Marlins

SAN ANTONIO -- Bexar County has taken another step in efforts to lure the Florida Marlins to San Antonio -- offering to put up $200 million toward an estimated $300 million ballpark if voters approve extending a tax on hotel and car rentals.

A Major League Baseball team would give San Antonio a second pro sport. The San Antonio Spurs are the reigning NBA champions.

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff said Wednesday that he faxed a stadium-financing proposal to the Marlins on Tuesday. The proposal would ask county voters to fund a stadium by extending a hotel and car rental tax approved in 1999. He said he hasn't received a response.

"They said they would look it over and let me know what the next step would be if any," he told The Associated Press.

A Marlins official confirmed that the team received a fax from Wolff but declined further comment.

Wolff estimated that the tax, which helped pay for the Spurs' arena, could be extended for 20 to 30 years. Voters could decide on the extension by the November elections, he said, adding that the response from the city has been positive.

"It moves San Antonio forward with another major sports franchise and will certainly lead to some economic development opportunities," he said.

The San Antonio Express-News reported Tuesday that billionaire B.J. "Red" McCombs, former owner of the Minnesota Vikings, said he would give "serious consideration" to becoming a minority investor in the team if it makes the move. He declined to comment on how much of the team he was willing to buy but said he did not want a controlling interest.

McCombs declined to comment when reached by the AP on Wednesday night.

Marlins president David Samson visited San Antonio in December as part of a preliminary search for a possible new home for the team. The Marlins have struggled to attract large crowds at Dolphins Stadium, home of Miami's NFL team, since their inception in 1993. Talks for a new stadium in South Florida have stalled.

The Marlins' lease at Dolphins Stadium expires in 2007. Marlins officials said they've also visited Portland, Ore., and talked with officials from Norfolk, Va.

Buddy Holly

03-08-2006, 11:44 PM

Also, Wolff said its a 75% chance the Marlins relocate to San Antonio.

jcrod

03-09-2006, 12:41 AM

The Marlins have struggled to attract large crowds at Dolphins Stadium, home of Miami's NFL team, since their inception in 1993. .

Well I hope they're not expecting large crowds here! :lol

I hope it works just for you could be right once! J/K Lets hope they're not pulling our chain here. Man I'm using hope to much. Either way at least other teams, who are serious about moving will see SA is serious about getting another sports team here. Wether it be NFL or MLB.

scott

03-12-2006, 04:21 PM

Good to see leadership taking this somewhat serious... but an open air stadium? In San Antonio? It really needs to be a retractable roof if its done at all.

Wolff presented 3 possible sites, all along I-35 in NE San Antonio. Smart. Begs the question though... why wouldn't they play at the professional baseball stadium that Holly Hills claims (or rather, Buddy Holly claims they claim) they will build near the SBC? Could it be that the Holly Hills sports complex is completely full of shit?

paparazzi

03-12-2006, 04:25 PM

Wolff sure knows how to present a pretty picture of MLB in SA.

gameFACE

03-12-2006, 04:51 PM

Wolff is definitely handling this much better than Hardberger spewing out his hole last fall on the Saints.

To me all Wolff has really done is throw something out on the table. A first offer. If the Marlins want to counter they will. He also wants them to say that they want the retractable roof. I suspect after negotiations the county would offer more than $200 mil.

Brodels

03-12-2006, 05:07 PM

The Missions averaged 3,874, 800 fans a night below the league average of 4,676, despite drawing from a market of nearly 1.9 million people according to our resident population analyst.

Holy crap. Some are actually thinking that a major league baseball team could survive in San Antonio despite the fact that the current AA team draws less than 4,000 per game?

Do you realize how pathetic that is? If nothing else, that should tell you that San Antonio doesn't care very much about baseball.

For what it's worth, the town I live in also has a AA team. The team draws 6,290 per game, despite the fact that very few people show up in April and May because there is snow on the ground and the temperature is very, very cold.

Oh, and the population of my city is 64,500. The population within a 50 mile radius is only 240,000. That is much, much smaller than San Antonio, and our team averages almost 2,500 more even with the snow and cold early in the season.

I simply cannot believe that San Antonio draws less than 4,000 per game. That is unbelievable considering the size of the city and metro area.

That to me is all I need to know about the chances of major league baseball making it in San Antonio. Yikes.

Buddy Holly

03-12-2006, 06:32 PM

Do you realize how pathetic that is? If nothing else, that should tell you that San Antonio doesn't care very much about baseball

That should tell you San Antonio doesn't care very much about minor league teams.

Minor league football has always pulled in shitty attendance in San Antonio.

Our second ABA (Mustangs) folded because of bad attendance.

Goddamn, people should atleast stick to a reason (why not) that makes some ounce of fucking since.

Buddy Holly

03-12-2006, 06:34 PM

why wouldn't they play at the professional baseball stadium that Holly Hills claims (or rather, Buddy Holly claims they claim) they will build near the SBC? Could it be that the Holly Hills sports complex is completely full of shit?

Or could it be that you're talking out your ass.

HollyHills plan was to build the offices, the hotels, the retail, the housing not the stadiums.

scott

03-12-2006, 08:22 PM

Or could it be that you're talking out your ass.

HollyHills plan was to build the offices, the hotels, the retail, the housing not the stadiums.

The semantics of who was to build the stadiums is irrelevant. The point is that you touted Holly Hills' grand plan for a mega sports complex with professional baseball, football, and croquette stadiums. Now when it comes down to real business, Holly Hills' master plan is nowhere to be seen, and the guy trying to attract the Marlins has thrown out locations clear across town from the supposed Holly Hills site. Maybe Wolff is just hiding his secret weapon...

Buddy Holly

03-13-2006, 12:06 AM

The semantics of who was to build the stadiums is irrelevant. The point is that you touted Holly Hills' grand plan for a mega sports complex with professional baseball, football, and croquette stadiums. Now when it comes down to real business, Holly Hills' master plan is nowhere to be seen, and the guy trying to attract the Marlins has thrown out locations clear across town from the supposed Holly Hills site. Maybe Wolff is just hiding his secret weapon...

It's a proposal, wtf, are you retarded?

I always claimed it as a proposal. Hell, if Holly Hills wants to, sans stadiums, they could build all that with investors and live up to their masterplan.

Btw, Scotty, Marlins will have the say so, the final pick, of where the stadium is built should they relocate. Not Wolff.

scott

03-13-2006, 12:34 AM

It's a proposal, wtf, are you retarded?

I always claimed it as a proposal. Hell, if Holly Hills wants to, sans stadiums, they could build all that with investors and live up to their masterplan.

Btw, Scotty, Marlins will have the say so, the final pick, of where the stadium is built should they relocate. Not Wolff.

You said you had an inside source (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=599166&postcount=390), Holly Hills had a "winning proposal" (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=572846&postcount=140) and had bought 1,100 acres of land adjecent to the SBC center (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=572862&postcount=145), Holly Hills would be funding the stadium with private funds (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=572997&postcount=177), and that this was a "done deal" (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=573523&postcount=184)

So... either the above things are not true, or Nelson Wolff has been struck by short term memory loss, or he realizes that if we have TWO MLB stadiums, we can have TWO MLB teams! Just like New York and Chicago!!!