It appears the Sunni tribes are...

[Yonivore]

...joining the "coalition of the willing."

Iraqi Tribes Strike Back at Insurgents (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/06/AR2006030601596_pf.html)

Not exactly the Civil War Nbadan's been hoping for.

[Hook Dem]

Well.........imagine that!!!!! :depressed

[boutons_]

The Sunnis fighting al Quaida/Zarqawi doesn't mean that the Sunnis will quit slaughtering Shiites, that there won't be a civil war, sooner or later. The Sunni/Quaida insurgency is so effective and long-lasting because it has the support of Iraqis who want the USA out, who protect the insurgents.

The Repug military presence is recruiting and attracting al-Quaida terrists to Iraq, where al-Qaida wasn't present before. "you're doing a heckuva job, dubya"

[Cant_Be_Faded]

wow, saying that you support the u.s. and then it's published in news...how surprising...this has never happened before yonivore...and you know what'll be even more surprising? when the actions and results match the printed words..

yonivore. republican for republican blindness. 2006.

[gtownspur]

^You sound really stupid and you dont know it,

PS: and i'm not trolling on you.

Just that you sound like you're the only one that can decipher real news out of the same source Yoni posts.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

"i'll believe it when i see it"
does that fit your intelligence standards, gtown?

[gtownspur]

"i'll believe it when i see it"

In that case you shouldn't the alternate view for iraq since you have not seen it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yeah and we have seen a steady democracy in iraq right
we have seen al qaeda be destroyed

we have caught osama bin laden because of our iraq efforts
oh wait, the purpose of that was to free the iraqis

well we have seen free iraqis...and they're using that freedom to bomb and attack the shit out of our soldiers

[gtownspur]

^that's just a couple of bad apples. Iraqis as a whole have been peaceful and it would be terribly ignorant to generalize.

[Yonivore]

The Sunni/Quaida insurgency is so effective and long-lasting because it has the support of Iraqis who want the USA out, who protect the insurgents.
Actually, it appears Iran is supporting the insurgency.

[boutons_]

Shiite Iran is obviously sympathetic to the Iraqi Shiite cause, and has the Bs of oil $ to support whatever the fuck they cauue want to support. But the Sunni oil countries are very probably also supporting the Sunni cause.

But the Iraqis don't want the Iranians running Iraq, any more than the VN wanted the ChiComs running around VN.

Probably the biggest failure in the Iraq war will be seen to be Rumsfeld's total fuckup of the post-invasion planning and execution, aided by Bremer's disbanding of the Iraqi Army and police, leaving a huge hole for the insurgents to surge through.

Without public security, no reconstruction, no reliable water/sewage, no reliable elecricity, democracy is a fucking luxury.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

^that's just a couple of bad apples. Iraqis as a whole have been peaceful and it would be terribly ignorant to generalize.

You serious?

They're having difficulties in any sort of engineering project because the techs simply can't get from location to location. When they need to go from plant to plant, they have to arrange it 2 days in advance so they can get full security detail.



That's just one example.

[Dos]

any society is going to have bad apples... how many americans have been gun downed by gangsta's, or killed in domestic abuse situations, or crimes of passion... do you honestly think any society is going to be free of any crime..?

[Dos]

interesting article..

Monday, January 17, 2005

Chicago vs. Iraq Murder Rates - Recapitulation
Here in Chicago, they are celebrating a reduction of the murder rate to 450 murders in 2004 for a population of 2.8 million! Since Iraq has about 25 million people, at the same per capita rate, they would have 11 murders per day. It seems nearly every murder in Iraq makes the news!

Picture the Iraqi “insurgency” as a gang turf war, the insurgents vs. the Iraqi police with the Americans taking the role of the cops. It is quite dangerous to be in either gang! But the ordinary citizen tends to stay out of the line of fire. A massive police presence will cause the gangbangers to hide. So with a strong presence on 1/30/05, the election should come off well, just as in Afghanistan! But that puts the citizens in the government camp! Looks like the insurgents are going to lose the turf war!

But is this the way the media covers the situation? No! A Fox News Report reads...

“In Baghdad, meanwhile, three mortar shells exploded Saturday near the heavily guarded Green Zone (search), causing no casualties but sending American and Iraqi officials scurrying for cover. It marked the third straight day of rebel attacks on the zone, the nerve center of the U.S. and Iraqi administration, after a lull of a couple of weeks.”

It should read something like this “In Baghdad, with population 5 million people, three spitballs were thrown near the heavily guarded Green Zone, causing no casualties but annoying American and Iraqi officials. It marked the third straight day of “insurgent” attacks on the zone, the nerve center of the U.S. and Iraqi administration, after a lull of a couple of weeks.”

Here is some unrefuted reporting from the New York Times which shows that Iraq had 202 murders in 14 days or 14.4 per day! Iraqi population estimates vary, but for comparison purposes Chicago (at 450 confirmed murders in 366 days with a population of 2.8 million) had .439 murders per million per day. The two would be equal if Iraq's population was 32,858,867 people! Population estimates vary but about 25 million people live in Iraq. Therefore, the streets of Iraq are about as safe as the streets of Chicago though in both places there are some tough neighborhoods and you might not wish to be a member of particular organizations! The Iraqi trend is going down faster than Chicago's. Here are the links to Chicago murder statistics. Note that there can be minor adjustments over time so that the exact number will vary as cases are cleared.

2001 - 665

2002 - 646

2003 - 600

2003 (Revised) - 599

2004 - 445 (through 12-28-04) Preliminary Total - 450
I wonder what Rahm Emanuel and Dick Durbin will say about that?

[boutons_]

If mortar shells, IEDs, and car bombs were going off daily in Chicago, with the political intent of destroying the govt of Chicago, it would be covered.

The USA is a violent, bloody, murderous country, World Champions, and proud of it, but the non-political murders are accepted as normal as long as it's poor-on-poor crime. If a pretty blond white girl is murdered, or if celebrity involvement, or a foetus is aborted, it's important.

It's nothing special or surprsing that Iraqi non-political murders are small.
The entire fucking world's murders are lower than the USAs, have been for decades.

If the point of this article is to say the Iraq is actually secure and peaceful compared to Chicago, then why the fuck don't the 130K US military pull out?

I bet the private militias under warlords and clerics are keeping their own kind of peace and keeping down the crime rate rather than the Iraqi police or US military.