Anti-gay zealots try to disrupt soldier's funeral

[MaNuMaNiAc]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/06/btsc.lavandrera.funerals/index.html


DODGE CITY, Kansas (CNN) -- This past Saturday morning I found myself in a five-car caravan cutting across the Kansas plains with about 30 religious protesters. In the back of a truck, there were signs that read "Thank God for IED's" and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers."

I was with the Phelps family. They've launched a disturbing campaign to tarnish the funerals of fallen soldiers.

This is a painful drama playing out at dozens of military funerals across the country. The group is led by Fred Phelps.

He and his family have picketed and heckled military families at more than 100 funerals since June. They say the soldiers are fighting for an army that represents a country that accepts homosexuality. (Watch how protesters targeted the funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq -- 7:08 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:cnnVideo%28%27play%27,%27/video/us/2006/03/06/lavandera.funeral.protests.cnn%27,%272006/03/13%27%29;))

I have spent a great deal of time in the last few weeks tracking the movements of Fred Phelps and his family. Saturday, I followed him and his family from their home in Topeka, Kansas, to a funeral in Dodge City, Kansas.

Fred Phelps is the pastor of Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka. The congregation is made up mostly of his family. Phelps has 13 children, 54 grandchildren and 7 great-grandchildren.

He describes himself as an "old-time" gospel preacher who says, "You can't preach the Bible without preaching the hatred of God."

Phelps and his family have made a name for themselves by showing up at high-profile events preaching their hate-filled brand of Christianity. They blame homosexuals for the destruction of America.

This past weekend's target was Army Sgt. Jessie Davila.

Davila was killed February 20 in Iraq by a suicide bomber. He served as a Marine after graduating from high school. He returned to civilian life, and had a daughter. But he was always a soldier at heart, so two years ago he joined the Army National Guard and was three months into an Iraqi deployment when he was killed.

This is also very much a story about another phenomenon the Phelps protest has created. That's the birth of a group called the "Patriot Guard Riders." They're a volunteer group that came together after hearing that so many military families were being blindsided by the protesters. (Watch bikers ride to protect a funeral -- 2:11 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:cnnVideo%28%27play%27,%27/video/us/2006/03/07/starr.funeral.protests.affl%27,%272006/03/14%27%29;))

More than 400 motorcycles thundered toward this showdown in Dodge City this weekend to make sure Sgt. Jessie Davila's funeral was not overshadowed by the Phelps protest. They converged from small towns all over southwest Kansas to support Sgt. Davila's family. One group leader says, "I knew we would have a crowd, but I didn't know it would be this big."

The procession of rolling thunder escorted Davila's family from memorial services to the grave site on a quiet hill.

In the end, Sgt. Davila's family says they were only able to hear a little bit of the Phelps protest. Davila's mother, Linda Claus, says she's grateful for the Patriot Guard Riders. But she also wants other military families to be aware that this could happen to them.

"When people begin to know what they're (Fred Phelps' family) really doing -- killing the American Dream -- they won't be around very long, because nobody's going to let them. They'll drown them out. They'll be gone," Claus said.

Since CNN started airing reports on these funeral confrontations a few weeks ago, the Patriot Guard Riders say its membership has almost tripled. And more than a dozen states are now considering legislation that would restrict protesting at funerals.

The Phelps family vows to continue these protests. They might be outnumbered, but the way the Patriot Guard Riders see it, it only takes one of them to dishonor the memory of a fallen soldier.

I know this has been talked about before, but damn! Don't you just wish you could beat the living crap out of those ignorant mother fuckers! (the Phelp familiy that is)

[Spurminator]

His time will come.

[boutons_]

Kansas, seems like a really shitty place, what with thes Phelps jerkoffs, their school boards supporting creationism/ID, and who knows what other erroneous, ignorant, mean, narrow-minded "Bible-based" shit.

It's a fucking long stretch to trash military funerals, already tragic because the lives have been wasted in a bullshit Repug war, because the military's "country accepts homosexuality".

[Extra Stout]

Phelps himself will be learning about the hatred of God in the hereafter.

[Spurminator]

I wonder what his funeral will be like.

[Oh, Gee!!]

methinks he doth protest too much. you know, cuz he's a closet homosexual.

[chode_regulator]

at the air station i work at we had to ch53 helicopters crash. well actually they crashed in africe but are based out of where i work.
one of the officers recently had a funeral back home and the protesters showed up there. makes me sick to my stomach. i dont care soldier or not, marine or not, murderer or not, doctor, lawyer, no one deserves that at a funeral.
i hope they all rot in hell

[Jelly]

I saw this on CNN and was truly disgusted. Fine, protest the war, but abusing the families of fallen soldiers at funerals?... how despicable. One man interviewed outside a funeral said he rejoiced every time he heard of another American soldier blown up by an IED. Truly, some of these people are absolutely satanic.

[Darrin]

These people drive me nuts. But truth is, this is protected by the 1st Amendment, no matter how hot my blood boils for inconsiderate, incompassionate idealouges like this. It would do more long-term damage to stop these people than to simply surround them during their next protest.

[Guru of Nothing]

Sometimes, incest goes awry.

[PM5K]

These people drive me nuts. But truth is, this is protected by the 1st Amendment, no matter how hot my blood boils for inconsiderate, incompassionate idealouges like this. It would do more long-term damage to stop these people than to simply surround them during their next protest.

I doubt it, I wouldn't be suprised if something like this is outlawed

Freedom of speech is not absolute...

[mookie2001]

Freedom of speech is not absolute...
good one!
you cant yell fire in a crowded threatre right Mr. Hannity?

[Darrin]

I doubt it, I wouldn't be suprised if something like this is outlawed

Freedom of speech is not absolute...

It's a movie, but "Let's see you acknowledge a man who's words make your blood boil, who is standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs, that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."

Unless a matter of public safety, free speech is an absolute right.

[Spurminator]

Hopefully, they've got the Interns working this case....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/22/AR2006072200643.html

ACLU Sues for Anti-Gay Group That Pickets at Troops' Burials

By Garance Burke
Associated Press
Sunday, July 23, 2006; Page A02

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A Kansas church group that protests at military funerals nationwide filed suit in federal court, saying a Missouri law banning such picketing infringes on religious freedom and free speech.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed the lawsuit Friday in the U.S. District Court in Jefferson City, Mo., on behalf of the fundamentalist Westboro Baptist Church, which has outraged mourning communities by picketing service members' funerals with signs condemning homosexuality.

The church and the Rev. Fred Phelps say God is allowing troops, coal miners and others to be killed because the United States tolerates gay men and lesbians.

Missouri lawmakers were spurred to action after members of the church protested in St. Joseph, Mo., last August at the funeral of Army Spec. Edward L. Myers.

The law bans picketing and protests "in front of or about" any location where a funeral is held, from an hour before it begins until an hour after it ends. Offenders can face fines and jail time.

A number of other state laws and a federal law, signed in May by President Bush, bar such protests within a certain distance of a cemetery or funeral.

In the lawsuit, the ACLU says the Missouri law tries to limit protesters' free speech based on the content of their message. It is asking the court to declare the ban unconstitutional and to issue an injunction to keep it from being enforced, which would allow the group to resume picketing.

"I told the nation, as each state went after these laws, that if the day came that they got in our way, that we would sue them," said Phelps's daughter Shirley L. Phelps-Roper, a spokeswoman for the church in Topeka, Kan. "At this hour, the wrath of God is pouring out on this country."

Scott Holste, a spokesman for Missouri Attorney General Jay Nixon, said, "We're not going to acquiesce to anything that they're asking for in this lawsuit."

The suit names Nixon, Gov. Matt Blunt (R) and others as defendants.

[boutons_]

Really on the extreme end of "Christian terrorists", but on the very same continuum of inhuman, uncivil freakhood in the name of Christ, Allah, etc along with the Hagees, IDes/creationists, and the mullahs.

As long as Phelps Phreaks don't physically disrupt the funerals and disturb the public order, they are protected in their right to assemble and right to free speech, no matter how repulsive. Freedom includes the freedom to be disgustingly repulsive, and does not require responsibility to civilization.

A big backlash against Phelps because of their targeting military funerals, but not the same backlash against abortion protesters targeting completely legal family planning clinics.

[Crookshanks]

Every time I think I've heard it all - boutons surprises me with his level of hatred.

These people are NOT typical evangelical christians - they are nutjobs, plain and simple. While God hates homosexuality, he does not hate homosexuals. These people's beliefs and actions have no support in the bible or from the christian community!

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

Why can't there be a law passed that bans ignorant rednecks from creating more ignorant rednecks?

[boutons_]

"While God hates homosexuality"

God created homosexuality ... and Crookshanks.

[Crookshanks]

"YAWN" We're not going there in this thread.

[Phenomanul]

"While God hates homosexuality"

God created homosexuality ... and Crookshanks.

No... Lucifer perverted GOD's gift of sexuality to mankind and created all those other deviances (homosexuality, pedofilia, beastiality... to name a few).

The sin itself is an abomination before GOD. But GOD's mercy and grace is available to anyone. It's there for the genuine taking.

And yes despite your blasphemous hatred, GOD loves you too.

[Crookshanks]

:tu

Thanks for a great answer to an asinine statement!

[boutons_]

What do you indoctrinated robots do if the evidence continues to mount that preferirng the same sex is a genetically, physiologically determined trait, rather than being a freely willed and chosen behavior?

[Phenomanul]

What do you indoctrinated robots do if the evidence continues to mount that preferirng the same sex is a genetically, physiologically determined trait, rather than being a freely willed and chosen behavior?

What about pedofiles? Are they not in their right to be attracted to children by the same excuse? Even if they don't act on their impulses and have commited no criminal offense?

I know the difference of consent, but that's not what was addressed in your comment. You addressed a genetic imprint that causes said preference. If you can justify one sexual deviation and not the other by said argument... go ahead. Just don't expect me to buy it.

The Bible is clear on the subject in Romans Chapter 1.

Romans
Chapter 1
1
Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God,
2
which he promised previously through his prophets in the holy scriptures,
3
the gospel about his Son, descended from David according to the flesh,
4
but established as Son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness through resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.
5
Through him we have received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith, for the sake of his name, among all the Gentiles,
6
among whom are you also, who are called to belong to Jesus Christ;
7
to all the beloved of God in Rome, called to be holy. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8
First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world.
9
God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in proclaiming the gospel of his Son, that I remember you constantly,
10
always asking in my prayers that somehow by God's will I may at last find my way clear to come to you.
11
For I long to see you, that I may share with you some spiritual gift so that you may be strengthened,
12
that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by one another's faith, yours and mine.
13
I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I often planned to come to you, though I was prevented until now, that I might harvest some fruit among you, too, as among the rest of the Gentiles.
14
To Greeks and non-Greeks alike, to the wise and the ignorant, I am under obligation;
15
that is why I am eager to preach the gospel also to you in Rome.
16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: for Jew first, and then Greek.
17
For in it is revealed the righteousness of God from faith to faith; as it is written, "The one who is righteous by faith will live."
18
The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
19
For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.
20
Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;
21
for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.
22
While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.
24
Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts 15 for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26
Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27
and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
28
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
29
They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips
30
and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.
31
They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32
Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

[boutons_]

"What about pedofiles?"

Ah, that old canard, bad try, and no cigar.

Pedofiles prey on children in an unequal relationship that damages the weaker member.
Many pedofiles admit they are sick, genetically?, or seriously damaged by abuse when they were young, and their pathology is about power, not sex. And some people are genetically programmed in ways that hurt other people. Do you ondemn someone with autism to hell? How morally condemnable is someone is not completely, or at all, working with a 100% free will?

Consenting adults of the same sex are not predator/prey, no more harm done to each other than male/female adult relationships.

While you "Christians" rant on simplistically, legalistically, judgementally about the Bible as the end-all, be-all of human thought, the rest of us will take a broader view of human experience and true spiritual growth.

[Phenomanul]

"What about pedofiles?"

Ah, that old canard, bad try, and no cigar.

Pedofiles prey on children in an unequal relationship that damages the weaker member.
Many pedofiles admit they are sick, genetically?, or seriously damaged by abuse when they were young, and their pathology is about power, not sex. And some people are genetically programmed in ways that hurt other people. Do you ondemn someone with autism to hell? How morally condemnable is someone is not completely, or at all, working with a 100% free will?

Consenting adults of the same sex are not predator/prey, no more harm done to each other than male/female adult relationships.

I'm not talking about the consensual/power predator/prey issues... I made that very clear in the previous post.

You are talking about a genetically imprinted preference. I said I would never buy it as an excuse.

I also said that there are several 'pedofiles' who are sexually attracted to children but who have shown enough restraint not to criminally act on their impulses. But how would their preference be any different from the also deviant and unnatural attraction between members of the same sex.

Again I'm not talking about people who have sexually abused children...

I'm talking about those on the fringe... those who would never in their mind even lift a finger against an innocent and powerless child. And yet lust after them.



While you "Christians" rant on simplistically, legalistically, judgementally about the Bible as the end-all, be-all of human thought, the rest of us will take a broader view of human experience and true spiritual growth.

Who says we are judging? Read on in Romans 2. (Even though I find it highly unlikely that someone with your staunch, boastful, ego would read from the Bible... and judge the book without actually 'reading' it.)

But here it is:

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/romans/romans2.htm


You go ahead and justify the sins of our generation as you see fit... some things however, are black and white, whether you like it or not.

Re-read the last verse in Romans Chapter 1.

I don't judge homosexuals... But I certainly don't condone their behavior either...

[mookie2001]

come on hemeamagoaba, youve never taken a walk on the brownside?

[Extra Stout]

You mean homosexuals have a predisposition towards behavior proscribed by Scripture?

Like a kind of "sinful nature?"

Wow, the rest of us sure are lucky we're not saddled with that... wait.

[Guru of Nothing]

come on hemeamagoaba, youve never taken a walk on the brownside?

You know what I mean!

[Guru of Nothing]

.

Yep

[Guru of Nothing]

.

[exstatic]

No... Lucifer perverted GOD's gift of sexuality to mankind and created all those other deviances (homosexuality, pedofilia, beastiality... to name a few).

The sin itself is an abomination before GOD. But GOD's mercy and grace is available to anyone. It's there for the genuine taking.

And yes despite your blasphemous hatred, GOD loves you too.

God created Lucifer, did he not? You really can't have it both ways. Either God is resposible for EVERYTHING, or he is responsible for NOTHING.

[mookie2001]

who is this Lucifer fellow?, you mean Charles Darwin right?

[bendmz]

Hell, I say Kill the BASTARDS let God sort them out !!!!!! :smokin

[Crookshanks]

God created Lucifer, did he not?

Yes, God created Lucifer. Lucifer was the most beautiful of all the angels. However, he didn't want to Worship his creator, Almighty God; he wanted to BE god! Because of this, he and a third of the angels (who joined Lucifer in his rebellion) were cast out of heaven into hell. Since then, Lucifer has sought out the souls of men, so that they will be eternally lost in hell, just as he is.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Alright, enough Bible talk, back to the funeral protests.

All I have to say is I had never thought about it before but this is one the time I would be in favor of the soldiers with the 21 gun salute having live ammunition :tu

[Phenomanul]

Alright, enough Bible talk, back to the funeral protests.

All I have to say is I had never thought about it before but this is one the time I would be in favor of the soldiers with the 21 gun salute having live ammunition :tu

With respect to the original topic... I don't agree with the protesters' behavior... it is... how should I put it.... indefensible.

I at least hope that point was clear. I'm not defending them. I'm defending scripture.

[Phenomanul]

God created Lucifer, did he not? You really can't have it both ways. Either God is resposible for EVERYTHING, or he is responsible for NOTHING.


So he is responsible for your rejection of HIS Truth??

No.

You, like Lucifer were given free will to do as you please. Free will was taken away from angels as a result of this division in the Heavens.

Mankind still has free will. Only you are responsible for your own destiny/fate.

[DarkReign]

With respect to the original topic... I don't agree with the protesters' behavior... it is... how should I put it.... indefensible.

I at least hope that point was clear. I'm not defending them. I'm defending scripture.

Whomever interpreted otherwise are idiots anyway.