Argentine player continues blasting of Team USA

[ducks]

Argentine player continues blasting of Team USA
Argentine player continues blasting of Team USA

March 7, 2006
COMODORO RIVADAVIA, Argentina (Ticker) - Two days ago, it was the coach. On Tuesday, it was an Argentine player bad-mouthing Team USA.

Leonardo Gutierrez, a fringe player on Argentina's 2004 Olympic gold medal team, continued the harsh words toward the United States, claiming the NBA stars do not know how to play as a team.

"They do not play like a team, they do not know how," said Gutierrez, who did not play in either of Argentina's medal round games. "They always played with a star, with a hero. They are not used to playing at FIBA level due to their individualistic style."

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Led by San Antonio Spurs guard Manu Ginobili, the Argentines defeated the Americans in the semifinals at Athens, Greece and went on to defeat Italy for the gold medal, their first in the Olympics.

The U.S. had won gold in 1992, 1996 and 2000 with NBA players, who in the past struck awe in international foes. But Gutierrez said that no longer is the case for his compatriots, who stunned Team USA in the 2002 World Championships.

"Since we beat them in their home in Indianapolis, the rest of the teams realized any country could beat the Americans," he said. "We do not have to respect them anymore. We do not play against them to take photos - never again."

Gutierrez also claimed that the gap between the NBA and European leagues has narrowed considerably.

"I think Europe is like the NBA," said the 27-year-old Gutierrez, who plays in Argentina's Liga Nacional with Ben Hur. "The teams have important players like in Germany, France or Spain. Those leagues are at a high level. I believe a lot of players from there could play in the United States."

Hours after USA Basketball announced its list of 23 players invited to tryouts this summer, Argentina coach Sergio Hernandez - who recently replaced the highly successful Ruben Magnano - applauded the exclusion of Allen Iverson and claimed LeBron James is more concerned with entertaining than winning.

Gutierrez echoed those claims and maintained the Americans are under heavy pressure to perform at the 2006 World Championships in Japan this summer. Team USA was sixth at the 2002 World Championships and third at the 2004 Olympics.

"They need victories," he said. "For them, the last bronze medal was a failure. In fact, if they do not win all their matches by a 20-point margin, it would be a failure.

"If they have a good pre-tournament preparation, they have a chance of changing their style of play. I heard they want to prepare at the same level as the other FIBA countries."

While USA Basketball's selections included defensive-minded players such as Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier and distributors such as Chauncey Billups and Luke Ridnour, the list does include seven of the NBA's top eight scorers.

While Gutierrez was not hesitant in his criticism, he does acknowledge that Team USA will have a powerhouse entry in the World Championships that he would like to avoid until the later rounds.

"The United States have so many players who are more or less at the same level," he said. "The only thing which is true is the 12 they will travel to Japan with will be the best in the world.

"If we can avoid them in the early rounds of the FIBA World Championship, it would be better. I would accept facing the Americans in the final, but until the semifinals I prefer to avoid them. If they play against us in a motivated night, they could destroy us."

[SequSpur]

Great, now Manu is going to be a Target.

[Spurologist]

Argentina is preparing their burial ground

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

"They do not play like a team, they do not know how," said Gutierrez, who did not play in either of Argentina's medal round games. "They always played with a star, with a hero. They are not used to playing at FIBA level due to their individualistic style."


Uh, yeah...that's why they're trying the new thing.

Dumbass.

[exstatic]

This reminds me of when Derek Fisher used to talk smack when he was in LA. Derek, you're WAY down on the Laker food chain, so STFU.

[ducks]

this guy reminds me of scola
scola thinks he is worth millions playing for the spurs
because he is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good he thinks

[TDMVPDPOY]

Gutierruz doesnt have the right to say this when he didnt even play in any of the medals round? who is he? a fuckn scrub. That usa team was to sell jerseys, if the first preference guys didnt back down to play at the games the athens team wouldve won gold.

[MI21]

Meh.

PG - Billups (3's, defense, poise)
SG - Bryant (offense all over, defense, clutch)
SF - Bowen (DEFENSE, 3's)
PF - Brand (Low Post, shotblocking, rebounding)
C - R. Wallace (Low Post game, 3's, mobile, defense)

for 25-30 minutes per game with the bench of Redd, B.Wallace, D Howard, Marion and Paul.

That team isn't close to the best team the USA could muster, but if they trained for 1 month together then you would have an unselfish team, who would completely dominate.

It has 3pt shooting swingmen (Billups, Redd, Bowen, Bryant), 3pt shooting bigmen (Rasheed, Marion), incredible defenders (Bowen, Rasheed, Brand, BWallace, Kobe, Marion), a couple of great rebounders (BWallace, Howard, Brand), low post offense (Brand, Rasheed) and very importantly it has steady PG play.

[v2freak]

Why should the US listen to these guys? It's certainly not in their best interest to tell the US how they should play

[cheguevara]

this shit is news? it's not even worth starting a thread for. WTF cares what this dude thinks.

[ducks]

this shit is news? it's not even worth starting a thread for. WTF cares what this dude thinks.
if you do not like the thread do not open it
no one is making you

[manubili]

You shouldn't pay much attention to this guy. Ask manu about it, if you want an argentine opinion. IMO, US team should play together longer than a week, lets say a month. And that's all they need to kick everyone's ass. You don't even need the very very super stars. Any NBA playoff team would do.
Back to the ground, argies. We have failed miserabily everytime we get bigheaded.

[WalterBenitez]

There will some trash talk around WC 2006 (just wait til off season), I disagree with some Gutierrez's expression, the only think it is true for me is that USA NT couldn't continue playing like a bunch of stars and believe they could defeate all elite Intl Teams.

This time USA is doing the things well, like almost the entire world does ... Full time coach, comitment, understanding FIBA's rules, paying attention about team, etc.

[WalterBenitez]

this guy reminds me of scola
scola thinks he is worth millions playing for the spurs
because he is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good he thinks

You are wrong this time,

1) G ... doesn't care about money ... he's the only 2004 ARG's NT playing in the local league.

2) S... thinks he worths what his buyout is ... which in my opinion is too high

Believe when I say that there many good players never going to NBA, like Bodiroga (S&M) that prefer to stay in Europe, despite of millions he was offered, don't ask me why...

[Ginofan]

"Since we beat them in their home in Indianapolis, the rest of the teams realized any country could beat the Americans," he said. "We do not have to respect them anymore. We do not play against them to take photos - never again."

I think that's a pretty shitty attitude. Yeah you don't have to be all gaga over them like they used to be back in the day taking pictures getting autos and stuff, but I still think an amount of respect is deserved. If you don't respect your opponents, that's usually when they run all over your ass.

[vanvannen]

This article was written with the intend of this kind of response. If you read carefully, it was cleverly stated at the final paragraph what Gutierrez thinks about Team USA. He said he wants to avoid them at any stage up to the finals and that they will destroy Argentina. Everything else he said, was written to death by US reporters after the olympics, but now as they are trying to bring that feeling of nationalism out they post this kind of articles as if the rest of the world had become bigheaded. Pretty lame in my opinion.

[Rick Von Braun]

I don't think he is bad mouthing...

"The United States have so many players who are more or less at the same level," he said. "The only thing which is true is the 12 they will travel to Japan with will be the best in the world.

"If we can avoid them in the early rounds of the FIBA World Championship, it would be better. I would accept facing the Americans in the final, but until the semifinals I prefer to avoid them. If they play against us in a motivated night, they could destroy us."

I agree with vanvannen... the article seems to be written to create a response... based on the last paragraphs, I would say some responses included there were probably out of context.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It too agree with vanvannen, the article is deceiving. Noone in their right minds would underestimate US potential to kick some ass! are you out of your mind? Most of those quotes were taken out context, I can almost guarantee it, or at least I hope they were or else we Argies are bound for a world of hurt :D

[picnroll]

Manu to Bowen, "He's just kidding".

[smeagol]

this guy reminds me of scola
scola thinks he is worth millions playing for the spurs
because he is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good he thinks
And you remind me of an ignorant guy I once knew.

[Taladro]

I would go to the WC 2006 with the super stars and still win.
But you need all the super stars[U], one week of preparation and you bring the championship back to the USA.
Nobody could beat a team with:
Shaq, KG, TD, Sheed W, E. Brand, TMac, LJ, Shawn M, VC, D Wade, Kobe, AI.

[Athenea]

Gutierruz doesnt have the right to say this when he didnt even play in any of the medals round? who is he? a fuckn scrub. That usa team was to sell jerseys, if the first preference guys didnt back down to play at the games the athens team wouldve won gold.
HONORS & AWARDS
- Argentinean Under22 National Team -97
- World Championships Under22 -97
- Argentinean National Team -99-02
- Argentinean League Champion -99,02
- South American Championships -99,01(Champion)
- Panamerican Games -99
- Argentinean All-Star Game -00
- Liga Sudamericana Finalist -00
- Argentinean League Finalist -00
- Argentinean Liga A All-Star Team -01
- Liga Sudamericana Semifinalist -01
- Cordoba Region Team -01
- Tournament of the Americas (Copa America) in Neuquin (ARG) –01(Champion)
- Goodwill Games in Brisbane (AUS) - 01(Finalist)
- Argentinean LigaA All-Star Game -02
- World Championships in Indianapolis (USA) -02

[Athenea]

I would go to the WC 2006 with the super stars and still win.
But you need all the super stars[U], one week of preparation and you bring the championship back to the USA.
Nobody could beat a team with:
Shaq, KG, TD, Sheed W, E. Brand, TMac, LJ, Shawn M, VC, D Wade, Kobe, AI.
U took the guys above mentioned to Las Americas Tournament for Men (Pr quallies) and in the most important game against Argentina u barely beat us.
4 Iverson Allen ezail Hamrton, VA 30 1.82
5 Kidd Jason San Francisco, CA 32 1.9
6 McGrady Tracy Lamar Polk County FL 26
7 O'Neal Jermaine Lee Columbia, SC 27 2.11
8 Carter Vincent Daytona Beach, FL 29 1.95
9 Collison Nicholas John Orange City, IA 25 2.05
10 Bibby Michael Henry Cherry Hill, NJ 27
11 Martin Kenyon Lee Saginaw, MI 28
12 Allen DO NOT USE Ray 30
13 Duncan Timothy Theodore St Croix 29 2.13
14 Brand Elton Tyrón Cortlandt, NY 26 2.03
15 Jefferson Richard Allen Los Angeles, CA 25 2.03
I'm not saying u r not able to beat anyone under the right circumstances. The more srsly u take it, the easier u'll win.

[Athenea]

I think that's a pretty shitty attitude. Yeah you don't have to be all gaga over them like they used to be back in the day taking pictures getting autos and stuff, but I still think an amount of respect is deserved. If you don't respect your opponents, that's usually when they run all over your ass.
He is not metaphorically speaking. Our players participated in tournaments but when they were playing against USA they did take pics and get autos. No joke. :depressed

[cheguevara]

this guy reminds me of scola
scola thinks he is worth millions playing for the spurs
because he is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good he thinks

how can I know if I like the thread if I don't open it?? :rolleyes ...retard

plus who wouldn't open a thread titled .... player blasts team USA.

still whoever bothers to listen to that guy's crap must be really bored.

[cheguevara]

cheguevara: "team USA sucks and is gonna get creamed again."

there make a thread about that. :smokin

[nkdlunch]

cheguevara: "team USA sucks and is gonna get creamed again."

there. make a thread about that. :smokin

[Taladro]

U took the guys above mentioned to Las Americas Tournament for Men (Pr quallies) and in the most important game against Argentina u barely beat us.
4 Iverson Allen ezail Hamrton, VA 30 1.82
5 Kidd Jason San Francisco, CA 32 1.9
6 McGrady Tracy Lamar Polk County FL 26
7 O'Neal Jermaine Lee Columbia, SC 27 2.11
8 Carter Vincent Daytona Beach, FL 29 1.95
9 Collison Nicholas John Orange City, IA 25 2.05
10 Bibby Michael Henry Cherry Hill, NJ 27
11 Martin Kenyon Lee Saginaw, MI 28
12 Allen DO NOT USE Ray 30
13 Duncan Timothy Theodore St Croix 29 2.13
14 Brand Elton Tyrón Cortlandt, NY 26 2.03
15 Jefferson Richard Allen Los Angeles, CA 25 2.03
I'm not saying u r not able to beat anyone under the right circumstances. The more srsly u take it, the easier u'll win.
The point I am trying to make is that, the best of the best could still win the WC 2006.
Players that can not be matched-up, anything less than that will loose to a team of very good players prepared as a true team.
From the list you posted I see 6 very good player (O'Neal Jermaine, Collison, Bibby , Martin Kenyon, Allen, Jefferson Richard), but they are not the best of the best, and added to the other 6 you may fall short. Just my opinion. Any way I am all for the team concept .
Vamos Argentina!! :elephant

[ShoogarBear]

Wow, this thread must be serious, it got AAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNN NNEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! out of hiding.

[doldrums]

And this is news because????

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Gutierrez taunting Team USA is like Sean Marks trash talking about the Pistons, or Mengke Bateer about the Nets.

[ducks]

how can I know if I like the thread if I don't open it?? :rolleyes ...retard

plus who wouldn't open a thread titled .... player blasts team USA.

still whoever bothers to listen to that guy's crap must be really bored.
by the title

[ABDENOUR POWER]

Sup Che, I just heard a speech about you this afternoon.

[Trainwreck2100]

Sup Che, I just heard a speech about you this afternoon.

why do you still have that sig?

[nkdlunch]

that sig rocks. But maybe he's waiting until Darko dunks in an Orlando uniform? don't cross ur fingers

[milkyway21]

if they do not win all their matches by a 20-point margin, it would be a failure.

..they won over the U.S. team by a single digit either. it wasn't a blow out, you know.

oh no, I hope players like this will :stfu.

He embarrassed the entire nation for acting like an arrogant bastard as he is. For me, win or lose I will always cheer for the U.S. team with or w/o Tim Duncan playing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If you're a scrub on your team, you shouldn't be talking shit.

Dumbass.

[timvp]

All the US needed last time to beat Argentina is Shaq. Olberto guarding Shaq is comical.

[cheguevara]

anybody guarding shaq is comical.


and you could also say, all the Lakers needed to win last year's championship was Shaq

[Obstructed_View]

That reads like a potstirring piece. Taken individually and within the context of the different statements, I agree with most of the statements. The Athens USA team was not assembled like a team, wasn't coached like a team, and didn't play like a team. They were subsequently beat by better teams comprised of a lower average talent level.

The statement that NBA players aren't far and away the best in the world is laughable, however.

[E20]

Yeah, Team USA sucked ass last year. So he can say that the Team USA of now sucks at team play which is absolutly true (i.e See Athens 2004). His statement that the NBA players aren't the best in the world is false though, what I think he's trying to say is that the NBA is becoming more international. I think in time more and more foreign players will come to the game and succeed and maybe even dominate.

[Obstructed_View]

Yep. Until ESPN Streetball becomes an olympic event, team USA has to prove they can play team basketball.

As for the NBA becoming more international, since the best team in the NBA is full of international players, that's hard to argue around here.

[ShoogarBear]

Love the overstatements in here.

If Team USA had had a chance to play together for one additional month, they would have won the Gold.

That is all.

[Sportman]

Something is real and all people watched it through television. The USA team has never played like a team, if they reached to play like a real team, i dont have any doubt, they would be unbeatable.

[Obstructed_View]

If Team USA had had a chance to play together for one additional month, they would have won the Gold.

I agree, but they didn't. They thought they could just assemble with no game plan and no roles for the players. The collective basketball IQ of the dream team made people think that any group of NBA all-stars could walk in and win. It's not surprising that the rest of the world took that as an insult.

[ShoogarBear]

I agree, but they didn't. They thought they could just assemble with no game plan and no roles for the players. The collective basketball IQ of the dream team made people think that any group of NBA all-stars could walk in and win. It's not surprising that the rest of the world took that as an insult.
I think the attitude of the 2004 team is getting a bad rap.

They knew they couldn't just show up and win. MAYBE they underestimated how much work it would take. But there was a huge improvement just from when they started (remember the loss to Puerto Rico?) and the medal rounds.

The talent gap between the US and the rest of the world has narrowed so much that no matter how dedicated and committed a US team you get, they aren't going to win gold unless they've really had time to play together.

[T Park]

I think part of the US's problem was they were too young.

Carmello mentally cause he pouted like a Radmonovic wannabe.

Lebron? He just wasn't ready yet to help out.


Duncan got fucked by FIBA refs.


I think guys like Marbury and Jefferson got too much run.


It was a mess, and only because the team wasn't prepared enough.

That simple.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think part of the US's problem was they were too young.

Carmello mentally cause he pouted like a Radmonovic wannabe.

Lebron? He just wasn't ready yet to help out.

Did you even watch the games? Lebron played as good as any guard on Team USA not named AI.

[Trainwreck2100]

Love the overstatements in here.

If Team USA had had a chance to play together for one additional month, they would have won the Gold.

That is all.

If Tim Duncan could have been on the floor for five more minutes they would have won the gold

[T Park]

Did you even watch the games? Lebron played as good as any guard on Team USA not named AI.

If youd settle the hell down for one second.

He wasn't ready to CARRY a team like team USA against the competition faced.

He played very well yes, but, him and Wade I just think werent ready in their FIRST olympics.


Once again, if Duncan had been allowed to play, that would've been a different story as well.

[SequSpur]

The USA lost, wtf? Shit happens.

Props to Argentina for winning.

[Trainwreck2100]

The USA lost, wtf? Shit happens.

Props to Argentina for winning.


No props for them being bitches about it though

[cheguevara]

No props for them being bitches about it though

wait, wait. Let's make it clear so there's no confusion. 1 nobody argentine player is being a bitch about it. 1.

[SequSpur]

The US lost like 3 game and shit.

WTF? They just blew.. Shit happens.

[Trainwreck2100]

wait, wait. Let's make it clear so there's no confusion. 1 nobody argentine player is being a bitch about it. 1.

1+their coach=15%, and none of the other players have spoken against this. So once again, no props for being bitches about it.

[doldrums]

1+their coach=15%, and none of the other players have spoken against this. So once again, no props for being bitches about it.

Spoken out about it? since when do other teammates remark about what a bench player said(if they are even aware, it's gotten no press because it's not newsworthy). Especially when they are busy doing their business across the globe on various teams

[E20]

Spoken out about it? since when do other teammates remark about what a bench player said(if they are even aware, it's gotten no press because it's not newsworthy). Especially when they are busy doing their business across the globe on various teams
I think the concept of bench player is maginfied in the pros they all respect each other unlike HS and maybe college.

[ShoogarBear]

Props to Argentina for winning.*sound of an entire country falling out of their chairs*

[v2freak]

The USA lost, wtf? Shit happens.

Props to Argentina for winning.

My, aren't we quick to be politically correct? :p

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If youd settle the hell down for one second.

He wasn't ready to CARRY a team like team USA against the competition faced.

You need to settle the hell down. Your original post said he wasn't ready to help. There's a difference between CARRYing a team and helping out.

He would have been a great complimentary perimeter player to AI if Larry Brown didn't have his head up his ass.

[myhc]

You need to settle the hell down. Your original post said he wasn't ready to help. There's a difference between CARRYing a team and helping out.

He would have been a great complimentary perimeter player to AI if Larry Brown didn't have his head up his ass.

Lebron was fantastic for the whole 8 minutes he was in each game. He was like a bolt of energy we desperately needed. I wonder what a lineup of AI, Wade, Lebron, Odom, and Duncan could've done. Oh well, Lebron is going to be a monster this summer and in 2008.

[ShoogarBear]

Lebron was fantastic for the whole 8 minutes he was in each game. He was like a bolt of energy we desperately needed. I wonder what a lineup of AI, Wade, Lebron, Odom, and Duncan could've done. Oh well, Lebron is going to be a monster this summer and in 2008.
The problem with that lineup, and with Olympic play, is that you absolutely cannot win without three-point shooting. It's the single most important factor.

[SoCalSpursFan]

We were horrible and in my opinion deserve these types of comments....maybe it has/will motivated Team USA to perform well the next chance they get.

[hendrix]

The problem with that lineup, and with Olympic play, is that you absolutely cannot win without three-point shooting. It's the single most important factor.

http://fiba.com/pages/en/events/event_stats_team/team_stat_percent.asp?RoundID=3183&lang=EN&fisC=false&CompetitionCode=WOLYM&Season=2004&StatType=3P&act_link=6

Argentina was not even in the TOP 10 at 3pt %.

[WayDowntownBang]

"They do not play like a team, they do not know how,"

"We do not have to respect them anymore.

"If we can avoid them in the early rounds of the FIBA World Championship, it would be better. I would accept facing the Americans in the final, but until the semifinals I prefer to avoid them. If they play against us in a motivated night, they could destroy us."


Open mouth, insert foot. So which one is it? We don't know how to play like a team, they don't respect us, or they know we could destroy them. If I'm Manu, I'm telling this guy to shut the hell up.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You people are reading way too fucking much into this. This article is meant to rattle your asses and perhaps motivate the American fans into supporting their team, and the American team into playing more cohesively. You want to prove them wrong? Try and beat Argentina on our next matchup. I personally don't doubt the American team can beat anybody, but they better do so playing like a team and not a bunch of superstars too full of themselves to play together, you know what I'm saying?

[Trainwreck2100]

You people are reading way too fucking much into this. This article is meant to rattle your asses and perhaps motivate the American fans into supporting their team, and the American team into playing more cohesively. You want to prove them wrong? Try and beat Argentina on our next matchup. I personally don't doubt the American team can beat anybody, but they better do so playing like a team and not a bunch of superstars too full of themselves to play together, you know what I'm saying?

Or if they sent their best

[ShoogarBear]

http://fiba.com/pages/en/events/event_stats_team/team_stat_percent.asp?RoundID=3183&lang=EN&fisC=false&CompetitionCode=WOLYM&Season=2004&StatType=3P&act_link=6

Argentina was not even in the TOP 10 at 3pt %.Interesting. But they WERE in the top 10 in points from 3-pointers. So they were shooting a lot, just not making them. The point is it still needs to be a big part of your attack.

http://fiba.com/pages/en/events/event_stats_team/team_stat_points.asp?RoundID=3183&lang=EN&fisC=false&CompetitionCode=WOLYM&Season=2004&StatType=3P&act_link=3

[ShoogarBear]

I personally don't doubt the American team can beat anybody, but they better do so playing like a team and not a bunch of superstars too full of themselves to play together, you know what I'm saying?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. When in 2004 did the US play like "a bunch of superstars too full of themselves"? All I saw was a bunch of guys who were playing together for the first time with a new coach. But it makes people feel better to think the other.

[nkdlunch]

this thread still alive???? u guys must be really bored

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Or if they sent their best
http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif you are hilarious, your problem isn't talent, it is not knowing how to play as a TEAM! perhaps you've heard of the concept? after all you invented the darn sport

[nkdlunch]

1+their coach=15%, and none of the other players have spoken against this. So once again, no props for being bitches about it.

1+ coach =15%??? what the....

and u're saying if Shawn Marks talks shit about Pistons, all spurs stars should apologize for him!????? ridiculous

[Trainwreck2100]

1+ coach =15%??? what the....

and u're saying if Shawn Marks talks shit about Pistons, all spurs stars should apologize for him!????? ridiculous

No, I'm saying that you shouldn't be confused when Detroit fans get pissed, because while Marks is only a bench player he's still a representative of the Spurs franchise.

[Trainwreck2100]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif you are hilarious, your problem isn't talent, it is not knowing how to play as a TEAM! perhaps you've heard of the concept? after all you invented the darn sport


Shaq+KG+Tmac=9 points.

[ShoogarBear]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif you are hilarious, your problem isn't talent, it is not knowing how to play as a TEAM! perhaps you've heard of the concept? after all you invented the darn sport
Not knowing how to play as a team had nothing to do with the character of the players and everything to do with amount of time.

If the US had played together as much as Argentina, and Argentina had played together as much as the US, do you think anywould would be questioning the Argentinians' character after they got beat? No. Wonder why that is?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Not knowing how to play as a team had nothing to do with the character of the players and everything to do with amount of time.

If the US had played together as much as Argentina, and Argentina had played together as much as the US, do you think anywould would be questioning the Argentinians' character after they got beat? No. Wonder why that is? You are right, I shouldn't have implied the American team didn't know how to play as a team, they just didn't take it seriously enough to take the time to start playing like a team? that better? All I'm saying is if the US starts taking these tournaments seriously, then they would probably win every time, but until they do so, the tournament is up for grabs.

oh, and you can't tell me that the NBA in the past decade or two hasn't been all about the superstars and not about the team http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smirolleyes.gif Only now with the emergence of the Pistons, the Spurs, etc has the NBA started realizing that team play is ten times more succesful than superstar hype.

[ShoogarBear]

You are right, I shouldn't have implied the American team didn't know how to play as a team, they just didn't take it seriously enough to take the time to start playing like a team? that better? All I'm saying is if the US starts taking these tournaments seriously, then they would probably win every time, but until they do so, the tournament is up for grabs.
No problem with that.

The US is never going to put International play above the NBA or NCAA championships. They clearly are trying to take them more seriously in terms of preparation. It will be interesting to see how this "three year commitment" for the current team pans out.

[vanvannen]

We were horrible and in my opinion deserve these types of comments....maybe it has/will motivated Team USA to perform well the next chance they get.

This is I believe the whole idea of the article. Just put in someone else's mouth what US journalist have written to death but with the whole new perspective of motivating fans and players.

[Obstructed_View]

I think the attitude of the 2004 team is getting a bad rap.

They knew they couldn't just show up and win. MAYBE they underestimated how much work it would take. But there was a huge improvement just from when they started (remember the loss to Puerto Rico?) and the medal rounds.

The talent gap between the US and the rest of the world has narrowed so much that no matter how dedicated and committed a US team you get, they aren't going to win gold unless they've really had time to play together.
I wasn't simply referring to the team. I think the organizers were thinking more about jersey sales and the gold medal was a foregone conclusion. While the talent gap has certainly narrowed at the top, US players still have a huge advantage in sheer numbers. The only problem is that you can only have five players on the floor at a time, and choosing the right five and using them properly is becoming critical.

[hendrix]

Interesting. But they WERE in the top 10 in points from 3-pointers. So they were shooting a lot, just not making them. The point is it still needs to be a big part of your attack.

http://fiba.com/pages/en/events/event_stats_team/team_stat_points.asp?RoundID=3183&lang=EN&fisC=false&CompetitionCode=WOLYM&Season=2004&StatType=3P&act_link=3

Come on, look at the figures... "shooting a lot"?? Argentina finished #10 in point made from threes, and not even close.
What won for Argentina was defense. You know the saying "Defense wins championships"?

[ShoogarBear]

Come on, look at the figures... "shooting a lot"?? Argentina finished #10 in point made from threes, and not even close.
What won for Argentina was defense. You know the saying "Defense wins championships"?
:wtf

We weren't talking about defense. My point was that you can't win without being able to shoot threes, or at least outside jumpers.

If defense was all that mattered, the US would have won.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

:wtf

We weren't talking about defense. My point was that you can't win without being able to shoot threes, or at least outside jumpers.

If defense was all that mattered, the US would have won.

I don't agree. USA based their defense on man-to-man way too much, specially when they didn't have any defensive specialist in the perimeter. Iverson, Wade, Lebron, Carmelo, Marbury, they all played very bad help D. Look at the numbers of Arroyo, Jasikevicius, Macijauskas, Manu, Calderon, Navarro, etc, against the US. All of them posted NBA superstar numbers.

In the NBA, coaches have man-to-man as THE SYSTEM, which suposedly is the best for crunch moments. But in FIBA, Zone Defense has always been the most used. Now the most common thing in FIBA tournaments are hybrids like box-and-one or triangle-and-two. This is probably the retribution between so many international players and the softer rules against zone D in the NBA. Team USA tried to run way too much isolation plays for the guards, but when you face a zone, a pick 'n' roll, pick-and-pop, a basket cut, a good post up, and of course, accurate 3 point shooting, are the best ways to force man-to-man Defense.

It's not all about 3-point shooting. You also need a strong presence in the paint. Smart players (backcourt and frontcourt) who can find themselves for open shots and set good screens. Except for "one-trick-poney & one-hit-wonder" Italy, all the better teams in the tournament had one or two players in the paint who could open up things in the perimeter (Oberto & Scola, Gasol, Duncan, Javtokas & Songalia). Also, a point guard who can direct things (most FIBA teams have a "pure" point guard who distributes the ball).

So it may sound like a cliché but it's all about teamwork and chemistry. This isn't new for Spurs and Pistons fans, but many other teams in the NBA *cough* Lakers *cough* still base their game on isolations for their superstar.

About the article: Who cares what Gutierrez said? It would be one thing if the involved player was Manu, Oberto, Scola, Nocioni, etc., but Gutierrez? Please... :rolleyes

The writer clearly tried to stir up things too, and I think he did a good job on that.

[Vingianx]

Save the Ginobili's and drop a bomb on the rest lol

[v2freak]

Why would a member of the Argentinean NT and an Argentinean writer want to "light a fire" under the US?

[TMTTRIO]

By the way it looks like the coach is in town visiting with Manu and Oberto about it. I wonder what Manu said to him :).


http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA031106.7C.BKNspurs.notebook.ebd711f.html

Argentina's national team coach, Sergio Hernandez, watched the game with the wives of Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto.

Hernandez is in town to meet with Ginobili and Oberto about Argentina's preparations for this summer's World Championships. Both players plan to play in the tournament.

Hernandez met with Detroit's Carlos Delfino and Chicago's Andres Nocioni earlier this week.

"In this part of season, he always wants to visit with the guys, especially because he is new," Ginobili said.