Ok...who won it?

[pooh]

I haven't seen the whole thing, but I'll catch the replay later.

[Yonivore]

Here you go, The Bush Campaign has set the record straight on many of the issues Kerry lied about tonight...

http://www.georgewbush.com/debatefacts/Debate.aspx?stamp=9/30/2004%2010:37:32%20PM

[Duff McCartney]

I didn't watch..but I saw them talking about the nuclear weapons deal..and man...Bush seemed confused like a motherfucker when it was his turn to retort.

He was like stumbling his words.

[Yonivore]

I didn't watch..but I saw them talking about the nuclear weapons deal..and man...Bush seemed confused like a motherfucker when it was his turn to retort.

He was like stumbling his words.
Obviously, you've never seen the President speak publicly before.

[Hook Dem]

Hell, Duff ain't ever voted!

[blackbucket]

First off, I'm a Bush supporter. Kerry did a good job as far as debates go and served himself well. He still can't defend his flip flopping and actually contradicted himself a few times. Bush did ok. Bush could have knocked his ass out tonight but is not skilled enough to do so.

[exstatic]

Bush could have knocked his ass out tonight but is not skilled enough to do so.

So then how could he have done so, if he's not skilled enough.

[Duff McCartney]

Hell, Duff ain't ever voted!

It's pretty easy to not vote when you're a communist.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

ex,

For starters, Kerry railed for 5 minutes on the Iraq war being the wrong decision to make. Then when he was asked point blank if the war was a mistake, he said no. Bush shoulda jumped on that.

Also, when Kerry went on about the 87 billion, Bush should have been all over him saying "hey, that money was for things like body armor, you voted against, then sit here and give us this sob story about troops not having armor."

I also think Bush should have said "you sit here and say that we should have handled Iraq with the help of the world, then sit here and say unilateral talks with NK are the way to go."

I thought it was brilliant bringing China into the NK equation, unfortunately 90% of the American public doesn't have enough of a world view to realize it.

[blackbucket]

Bush could have knocked his ass out tonight but is not skilled enough to do so.

So then how could he have done so, if he's not skilled enough.


:lol
You should be a politician

[Marcus Bryant]

Kerry did well, but Bush did what he needed to do. This was Kerry's one big opportunity to change this race, which he didn't.

[exstatic]

You should be a politician
I should take umbrage to that. :lol

[exstatic]

MB - I think it doesn't help the incumbent to tread water. He should be getting what wide receivers call "separation", and he failed to do so, making himself look about the same as Kerry.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think it was pretty much a draw. Which in my opinion is a bad thing. Kerry really needed to make a splash, and I don't think he did.

That said, I expect the polls to tighten slightly. Dunno why, just "feel" that it will.

[Yonivore]

First off, I'm a Bush supporter. Kerry did a good job as far as debates go and served himself well. He still can't defend his flip flopping and actually contradicted himself a few times. Bush did ok. Bush could have knocked his ass out tonight but is not skilled enough to do so.
They'll remember the 3rd debate, not the first...

[exstatic]

AHF - I disagree. If you're behind in the polls, and you get a draw, it's almost like a narrow win. You've proven to be at least the political stature equal of the incumbent. I do agree that this will tighten the polls, however.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bush has separation. He only needs to run out the clock at this point. Kerry needed to win this decisively. The problem is, all of his attacks are undermined by something he said yesterday, or the day before.

[Yonivore]

AHF - I disagree. If you're behind in the polls, and you get a draw, it's almost like a narrow win. You've proven to be at least the political stature equal of the incumbent. I do agree that this will tighten the polls, however.
Damn, ex, did Nbadanallah possess you or something?

[exstatic]

Why, Yoni? Do you think that being ahead in the polls, and managing only a tie helps Dubyah?

I guess we'll have to check the poll bounce, and see what the national feel is.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

ex,

My stance is that this was supposedly Bush's strength, and all the national polls say national defense, etc. is the single most important issue in this election.

At the end of the day, you have to ask about this debate is if Kerry really proved that Bush was wrong, and I don't think he did that.

[Yonivore]

Why, Yoni? Do you think that being ahead in the polls, and managing only a tie helps Dubyah?

I guess we'll have to check the poll bounce, and see what the national feel is.
I think it's all irrelevant...Bush has this election sewn up. No doubt.

10 points or better...mark my words.

And, I don't think the debate was a tie. I think Kerry kicked ass on symbolism and presence and the President kicked ass on substance. Problem is, the public knows Kerry is a polished, haughty, Yale grad with a penchant for talking about his 4 months in 'nam and how worldly he is. However, the public equally knows that President Bush says what he means and means what he says.

Kerry's fucked.

[AFE7FATMAN]

I agree Kerry is fucked, however IMO he made some great points on the fact that we were not prepared for war, i.e body Armor, and a lot of other things, however no one mention that Congress had refused to purchase a lot of the stuff the Military needed during the Clinton Years as well as under Bush 1.
The "Planning" was Get to Bagdad fast without a lot of dead bodies. "Mission Accomplished.
NOW What Boss?

[pooh]

I don't know why they're riding Bush on that "mission accomplished" shit. He never said it. It was on a banner on the aircraft carrier.

[pooh]

Ok I just finished watching it. I think Bush really seemed disinterested at times and more like "whatever lets get it over with." I think he did well enough not to lose any points. Bush had every chance to hammer down Kerry but I think he's messing with him like a cat does with a mouse.

[JoeChalupa]

I think Kerry had to do better than Bush and he did.

If you didn't know who was president, you'd have thought Kerry was the president.

The podium is simply not Bush's best asset.

[Hook Dem]

I think Kerry had to do better than Bush and he did.

If you didn't know who was president, you'd have thought Kerry was the president.

The podium is simply not Bush's best asset.
Ah yes...rhe podium! People in this country are interested more on national security than an astute profile

[Marcus Bryant]

Mondale looked presidential. The problem for Kerry is that his national security/foreign policy strategy is the same as Mondale's.

Oddly enough for those who believe Bush is a deaf mute he won on the substance of the debate (perhaps this was his evil calculating conspiratorial side).

On the war on terror Kerry had the backseat driver/nagging wife position locked down. "How much is this going to cost? Are we going to have to do all that? You said..."

Elsewhere Kerry showed his true blue post-Vietnam war liberal Democrat credentials. Every US military action in the world must be signed off by the UN. Western European opinion must be worshipped. He even managed to revive the Nuclear Freeze position.

Kerry had some WTF?! moments. The first one was when within a minute he went from calling the Iraq invasion a mistake to saying that it was not a mistake. The second was when he said he would give nuclear material to Iran.

Bush hammered Kerry on the approach to North Korea. Pushing China, SKorea, and Japan to the side and dealing with North Korea one to one is precisely what Kim wants.

Kerry didn't need the outcome of this debate to be that he 'looked presidential.' That should have been taken care of a long time ago. It goes to how horrible a candidate Kerry has been that his supporters are now claiming that Kerry won 'on style.' Bush was the guy who was supposed to win on style while Kerry cleaned his clock on the substance of the discussion.

Also, there's the one image that Kerry's performance last night solidified and that is of the 'slick talker who will say anything to get elected.' Bush's haggardness or whatever had the look of a president who is dealing with all of this shit on a daily basis instead of searching for anything that will get him elected.

I'd be surprised if this debate had any real impact on the presidential race.

[ClintSquint]

Kerry finally pulled out his own can of whoop ass on Dubya.
It was about time he showed what kind of hombre he really is.

Kerry won hands down.

[ClintSquint]

Substance? The only substance Dubya knows is coke.

How many times can you say, "It's a tough job"?

Nothing new from him. Just "more of the same". :rolleyes

[Hook Dem]

Substance? The only substance Dubya knows is coke.

How many times can you say, "It's a tough job"?

Nothing new from him. Just "more of the same". :rolleyes
Atta boy Homer! :lol

[LandShark]

I believe the debate was essentially a draw: Kerry winning on style, but Bush having the edge on substance. As I pointed out in another thread, if Kerry wanted this debate to make a lasting difference he needed to score a solid win or at least hope that President Bush would commit a major gaffe. Neither of those things happened.

[SpursWoman]

It was about time he showed what kind of hombre he really is.


He did, Clint. One that keeps contradicting himself over and over and over again.


It's funny, from watching a lot of the commentary....I was wondering if some of them were even watching the same debate I was. I don't think either one of them had any significant edge over the other. Style, maybe, but I could give a rat's ass about style.

Kerry definitely has the oratory skills, but he's still *all over the place* in his beliefs on Iraq.

[LandShark]

Substance? The only substance Dubya knows is coke.
Brilliant analysis. :rolleyes

[JoeChalupa]

I think they both did well but Kerry got the edge he needed.

Will it sway voters? I don't know.

But I watched several responses from so called "un-decided" voters and the majority gave it to Kerry.

I know many of you conservatives don't want to admit that Kerry did well.

Come on, it doesn't mean you are changing who you support.

It isn't really hard to give credit to Kerry if you keep an open mind.

[Marcus Bryant]

Kerry did well on "style", on "looking" good. Once you get past those 5 seconds he had nothing else. What the difference is between Kerry's national defense strategy today and Mondale's in 1984 I do not know.

Yes, Bush won on points. He did not waver, he did not contradict himself, and he pointed out when Kerry did as well as the error of what Kerry advocated.

Bush's exasperated look was a plus for him. It wasn't a sign of weakness as in 'I don't have an answer' but rather of strength as in 'the bastard doesn't know what he is talking about.'

Kerry provided the Bush campaign with some soundbite gems, such as the "global test" comment and him calling the Iraq invasion a "mistake" and 'not a mistake' within a minute. If I'm the Bush campaign I would measure the time between those two comments and make a commercial about it.

In some respects I feel as though last night's debate was in my dreams, except it was twenty years ago and Kerry was played by Walter Mondale. Kerry's general national defense and foreign policy strategies differ very little, I feel. Kerry managed to revive the Nuclear Freeze proposal. A President Kerry would give nuclear material to Iran. He would allow Hussein to remain in power and the sanctions scheme to break down so long as other nations said it was acceptable. He would engage the North Koreans bilaterally (worked the last time, didn't it?) and push the Chinese, South Koreans, and Japanese to the side. He would seek to pass a "global test" (aka kissing Franco-German ass) before he engaged in any preemptive action. How much the Demos have forgotten in those intervening twenty years. Clinton looks like Ghengis (or was it Jenjis?) Khan in comparison.

Bush's strength does not lie in his image but in his positions. Kerry needed to win this debate on the issues instead of on the image. Also, considering that Kerry has been painted as a polished speaker who will take all sides of an issue this debate did nothing but confirm that.

[Hook Dem]

I think they both did well but Kerry got the edge he needed.

Will it sway voters? I don't know.

But I watched several responses from so called "un-decided" voters and the majority gave it to Kerry.

I know many of you conservatives don't want to admit that Kerry did well.

Come on, it doesn't mean you are changing who you support.

It isn't really hard to give credit to Kerry if you keep an open mind.
Joe...there is no doubt that Kerry came across as suave and devonair but he just doesn't get what America is looking for. ...A strong leader in world affairs. He is very lacking in that area. He will say anything to get elected and he has demonstrated that on Iraq. I don't think the debate so far will change many minds. As for the so called "undecides", they are pretty hollow if they haven't made up their minds at this point. I think those are just "stumpers" put before the camera to influence others.

[LandShark]

That is correct. Post 9-11 America prefers substance over style. Come November 2 the man of substance, George W. Bush, will have the edge.

[Marcus Bryant]

Kerry in some respects offers an arrogant view of the world. We can push the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese to the side and talk to the North Koreans on our own. The UK, Italy, Australia, Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe don't matter, we only care about France, Germany, and Russia. The US should normally be able to force the rest of the world to capitulate to our demands and this president has not.

But Kerry looked good.

[Spurminator]

I think they both said a lot of nothing, and that Kerry just looked better doing it. So I guess I'd give him a slight edge.

[EmerilLagasse]

I think Kerry kicked it up a notch last night and BAMM! let everyone know that he isn't just going lay back anymore.

Bush was the same old recipe.